Billie Eilish: “What Was I Made For?”, Barbie & Songwriting | Apple Music

I find it really hard to write about my exact feelings in my life and so what was I made for would never have ever been written even though it is every single lyric is exactly how I feel exactly how I feel every lyric exactly how I feel you hear me or you want look at my mouth it's exactly how I feel it's about my life anyway you got that it's exactly how she feels and we assume it's always going to be as soon as she sits down with Phineas and starts to write songs but as

you're about to hear until the opportunity to write this song for the Barbie film came along it wasn't as simple as that Billy and Phineas needed this song at this time and the space and comfort to create it from within the Cinematic Universe to be able to shake off where they've been and figure out where they're going [Music] was this a good day another song I know such a good song Hey how you do it I mean you come out with these one like just these moments they're not attached to anything like on a large

scale for you and for your brother or anything or attached to movies but they exist on their own terms like it's your song like he made this like about your life there's a lot of songs about movies tend to lean more into the narrative and I just maybe they're the same thing I don't know well this is this is the that's the thing yeah this is the thing I can't wait to talk all about is a lot to discuss on it it's good to see you too you're great thanks you look great man all right

I'm doing all right um so I don't know whether I be I begin at the beginning or I begin at the new beginning let's let's talk about why you did the song and how you got involved in the movie and we'll we'll work back from there God it's so funny that it's all hap like it's all out now or like coming out now um because it's been such a like secret for so long um let me think how did this start up so I want to say at some point at the end of last year

Phineas was like dude would you want to like make a song for Barbie and I was like what I was like what kind where did you get that question why did that come into your brain and he was like well you know I I was talking to so-and-so and it came up and talking to Mark and Greta and he's like there's like some random day in December finis goes um Phoenix goes we're gonna no no I get a text it's like a group text and it's me Phineas and then two other numbers and suddenly Phineas

is like hey this is Billy's number and I look and I'm like I don't know what the hell is going on like there's no pre I don't know what's going on but you gotta trust Phineas at this point I gotta trust him because he's connecting you with somebody it's a good thing I know it's a good thing yeah and then it's like hey this is Greta hey this is Mark macron's integrated girl right correct and I'm like oh okay so then they basically send a couple I don't know they they explain stuff Greta explains some

things about the movie is this the first you've heard of the movie this is I had heard of it when it was when the internet heard of it like a year ago and they were shooting and everyone was like oh my God that's all this stuff um anyway Phineas goes at one point um Phineas is like at 3 P.M or today we're going to call Greta and Mark and I'm like cool like no team no no like anything else like that was it and we we got on a call with them Greta explained to us

the movie and it was just the sweetest most pure thing in the world and of course like Phineas and I went into this honestly in a very selfish way of like we totally might not have anything to do with this movie but like I want to see it yeah like show me I want to see it well I wonder how that balance is when you are a fan of something that's coming out and then inevitably someone wants you to take part and collaborate and helping to make it better and you're like do I just keep

it as a Fan Experience I know I know like what if I don't deliver to my standards and now I watch this movie and I didn't I didn't get the song done I know well this was the thing is that I was like I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make something I I might not right and then Greta was like we want you to see the movie so come to wherever we'll we'll show you as much as we have this is January I think 16th this year and it's like a rainy day

and it's just me and Phineas and we went to Warner Brothers and uh it was literally me and Phineas and Greta and like a couple of her producers and it's never been that sparse like ever it's always been like for her as well right and she was like gonna have a baby in like five days and she was like I'm I this is just the craziest thing yeah and you know I went into it being like I had no idea what to expect I went into it not thinking that anything would necessarily come of it

I was like I just want to see this movie this is so cool I'm honored to even be like thought of whatever and also like dude a Barbie movie is so easy to make bad trash you know I was like dude is this gonna blow like I don't and I was like it's Greta though so it can't but it might I don't know good people make bad stuff all the time we've seen it and so I was like it's a lot of pressure too because there's so much good that Barbie has done and there's so

much bad that Barbie has done well this is the really interesting now we're going right back even before your experience with Bobby and and what it meant to you as a kid like like billions of other people you know well over a billion dolls sold yeah which means it's always going to be the subject of intense conversation and debate well there's so much controversy there's a lot of people who for good reason absolutely a lot of people who um and so much research like when I was like brushing up on Barbie like Harvard academic research

into the impact I know it's crazy it's a lot so to make a movie that's that's addressing all of it and also really good and also really funny and also really moving and beautiful and cool I mean it was shocking in a way when you when you put it like that because because everything you're saying about Stakes being high is absolutely valid but when you put it like that you realize it's probably the biggest open goal in modern Cinema because so much has been done about the Bobby story which is just so like I'm a

Barbie girl or don't I'm no Barbie don't push me like everyone's leaned into that narrative for so long I know that to actually update it and lean into the the slogan which is you can be anything that's it was kind of there for the taking in a strange way I mean for sure and I I really had no idea what to expect and again I was like really nervous for her and she played us the first like 30 40 minutes of the movie and I mean like a minute in Phineas and I Look to each

other like this is gonna be great whoa this is insane and every like she'd Play a scene and she'd walk in front of us and she'd go so um and the next part um it what I want it to be is I want it to really feel like this and should do her Greta growing ass thing and she'd come up and she'd show us her passion and told us all and she kept getting up and walking all the way down to the front of the theater to tell us about the next part and explain it

and she was just like it's so scary to show anybody this it's like my baby I wanted you to feel it she wanted to really explain it and give it all of the like context that it needed and you know what's funny is that we went into it not being like we're going to write something this is what it's going to be for she didn't say like you know here's a scene there was nothing she was literally like I don't care please just like if you're inspired make something and like if you're not that's fine

it's fine like I'm just like it would be my dream and literally the next day we were working and we were writing something and I don't know it's kind of a dud of a day like nothing was really made and it was late and I was like all right well I think I'm gonna go like we've done enough we're we're done for the day and Phineas was like should we try to write a Barbie song and I literally was like dog no what like we're not gonna make a come on like I thought about like

no time to die that was that was months of thinking and talking and coming up with different Melodies and stuff and yeah and that was also like one of my favorite processes of all time very different though but very different and I was like there's we can't recreate that like how are we gonna do that and we we truly sat down and finish started playing piano and and those first couple lyrics I used to float now I just fall down just came right out and we just I used to know no I'm not sure what

is that no I'm not I used to know uh but I'm not sure now what I was made for and then uh and and what I was made for came out in that moment it's so good we kind of did it kind of did it's so good when you can um and also like respect to Phineas because not only obviously does he know you better than anybody but also he he's a like an incredibly gifted producer to recognize that perhaps hint of that frustration yeah you'd experience throughout the day yep would just leave the door

ajar just enough for you to want to do something else right right just around the corner is something that's the direct contrast to that experience yeah I know it happened what I was made for and as soon as you got that you guys must have had that moment where you just high-fived and cracked up laughing which was seen on camera because that's that's the essence of the song you cracked it that's so good well also we this was also I have to say that like I don't know I we we'd really been having a us

both of us like usually it's just me with the writer's block but not even writer's block but just the like frustration in writing and Phineas has always been the one that's like no no like let's write let's write and honestly we were in a period of time where we were both like through the this last winter we've both been like incredibly uninspired and we've still been working and trying to make stuff and honestly that that song was like the first thing we'd written in a minute and so even though we were having coming up with

ideas and coming up with this and that like it was like I don't you know I remember after we wrote that first like half I go I think we still got it yeah like we were really in a zone of feeling like we lost it and feeling like man I don't know if we're I don't know if we can do this anymore and we were like I was over 15 years old and 16 17 and he's a teenager like yeah you can imagine my thoughts of doubt like oh I can't do this anymore and Barbie

and Greta just like pulled it pulled it out of me I don't know took you back to the essence where something was was very real before it got distracting yes you know and I think you know the relationship like it's not lost on anyone who who knows you that um it it's it's a lot to try to absorb at all times and remain true to the craft of being a songwriter which is all that truly matters at the end of the day right it's what that's what you need to communicate and express yourself and Bobby

took you back to that place where something came along and captured your imagination and you just tapped into that thing what was your relationship like with your first Barbie what did it mean to you as a kid oh gosh well I mean Barbie was my my childhood like truly Barbie was my my everyday as a kid what treats Bobby What drew me if you can think about it it's like a beautiful doll like yeah please I mean it's like a you know she's she's everything too she's like she's everyone she's she there's so there's so

many Barbies and there's so many like different versions and different you know all my Barbies have their own personalities and opinions and thoughts and um you know Styles and like ideas of the world and I was just like a little kid you know talking for them but they still had personality to me there's something about it that a lot when you're at a certain age that allows you to to sort of create an identity vicariously through something that isn't telling you for real what to do or not to do in life it listens to you

and it can also like educate you but it's sort of giving you a voice to educate yourself I know I know in a strange way did you play with dolls ever I had a few little action man and some and some like you know just some War stuff as a kid but I grew out of that pretty quick I I don't know my imagination once I got sucked into not to be a cliched once I got sucked into music I did it for you yeah it was really hard for me to kind of put myself

in any other scene like it nothing else was as fulfilling as as music that's right so as a kid when you when you're playing with your Barbie if you can sort of remember like how it influences your identity because we've talked a little bit about the studies that go into the positive impacts like well the negative impact seems to be the loudest one that it has in terms of body image and whatnot um and also this idea of being um you know uh in the beginning like a home like a homemaker and a mother and

all these sort of things it's like okay and then and then but then people forget that I think I can't remember what the number is but Barbies actually held down more than 300 or 500 jobs since she was first created and put in front of the world so that slogan of you can be anything truly exists so I wonder where that fell in in into your imagination and as you were forming your identity I mean I wonder too you know is it the kind of thing you don't realize when you're when it's happening yeah like

the whole you know the the unrealistic body standards that I think most dolls in general and especially Barbie uh was it uh a creator of but like I mean you know the whole world has been the thing that's made unrealistic body standards for women a thing it's not just Barbie but it is also Barbie right um but you know it's funny like I when I'm when you're a kid you're not like necessarily conscious that it's affecting you but of course it is yeah you know you don't you know you start growing your parts and you're

growing up and you're like oh I do not look like a Barbie I don't I don't feel like I look like a Barbie I don't feel like a Barbie I don't look like one and um it definitely gets in your head I didn't I wasn't very conscious of it until I got older but this is like I'm not blaming Barbie honestly I think of Barbie and I only think of like joy and like fun and like my childhood and um it's more just like that I'm conscious of what how it affected you but also it's

like you know there's a scene in the end of the movie that I won't spoil but like kind of talks about like Barbie is none of us are Barbie like Barbie is Barbie yeah like why can't we have something okay I get it it's complicated but also isn't the idea of having toys and dolls and and I mean action figures or or objects of War Tanks toy tanks whatever you're not it's not you isn't it yeah isn't it about kind of allowing your imagination to to decide what stays and what goes and where where for

sure and I thought of it that way and I think it's more just like there should also be the ones that are like oh I see myself in this Barbie if something sticks around for long enough like what's that line you know your hero until you live long enough to be the villain when Bobby's been around for like 60 plus years eventually everyone's going to find ways to recontextualize what it means and no one's right no one's wrong yeah it's very individual but it is awesome to see a movie like this come out where the

world seems EXT genuinely excited like how Texas is someone involved in this movie this morning who's working at a high level and I said I'm missing a campaign really capture the world's imagination like this for a while I know I'm I'm really stoked about it I I was like because also knowing about it before anybody really before it was like the whole process had started I I just had I was like oh I hope they go hard and they really have like the whole the everything pink and the whole press tour and all of Margo's

looks being all like archival Barbie looks is so cool was it a good party last night it was really amazing to be there and like I don't know just talking to some of the cast members and looking around and seeing all these other musicians that I know and like that I'm a fan of it's just really cool like you know Nicki Minaj's two girls behind me Kevin Parker is right there Heim is right there Ryan Margot Greta like they're all right here Kate McKinnon's right in front of me and it's cool that musicians can all

come together and celebrate something that isn't all on your shoulders yeah I know and also that it's like it's not about me like this is not about me I'm I'm you know I think that what was I made for is like it's it's Barbie's voice you know it's it's it's your voice it's anybody's it is but there are as always with you and and Phineas there are always lines always moments something you paid for was like Wow for me um well yeah I mean it's it's it is it's it's that moment where you have to

acknowledge that there are different types of love right yeah and that some love is transactional yeah simply true yeah simply put it's nothing bad about it it's not gross that's what being a fan is we support each other but it is but it's that is true it's true it's true yeah and I think that it's really it was awesome to hear that put so poignantly in a song and so honestly in a song it's why we all love your songs it's because you're unafraid in that moment what was it like to when you wrote that

we know you felt good when you got the the center of the song how did it feel when it started to delve into areas that felt quite personal it's actually really fascinating to think about so the beginning of writing the song this is going to sound stupid okay we're way past that even though by the way in conversation all right so yeah the the start of writing the song the first day of writing Phineas and I especially me because it's you know from my perspective we were purely only thinking about Barbie I did not think

about myself once in the writing process so that's like full first verse pre-chorus chorus maybe second verse all in one one night didn't think about my own life didn't think about how I feel didn't think about anything I was Purely Inspired by this movie and this character and the way I thought she would feel and wrote about that and then over the next couple days I was listening and I was like girl like how did this ha honestly and I really don't mean this to come off like a conceited way at all but I do

this thing where I make stuff that I don't even know is like like I'm writing for myself and I don't even know it and it is one of the most incredible things I get to experience in my life over the closest thing anybody will ever get to having a conversation with yourself dude the next week I was playing it in the car all day and playing it for everybody and I was like this is exactly how I feel and I didn't even mean to be saying it like I did it was so it was truly

like the trippiest thing I've ever experienced in my life I was like oh this is like oh I I absolutely was writing about myself but I was thinking about myself from a third person and I was thinking about myself objectively which also made me feel really connected to her me yeah because that connection started when you were a kid I know when you were searching for your identity an adult trying to figure out how I mean Bobby's So Glamorous and so strong and like such a go-getter in life and I can be this and you

can be anything and you're like I don't know yet right you know I don't know who he is you know what I mean so then you get to that point in your life and you know you got everything you ever wanted and then you sort of it's I mean there's it's lots of nice relationships going on here in these songs you know like something I I think is really special about this whole experience that I've been thinking about a lot is Phineas and my love for you know making music for film is really it really

just shows itself more and more um you know like like I said we were really uninspired in this period of life and we were like so uncreative and not coming up with anything and nothing was inspiring I mean we had many hours of conversations about like I'm not inspired I don't like stuff right now and you know there's something about film and TV that makes me and I don't want to speak for Phineas but I'd say Phineas have this feeling of like I don't know this just like it's just it's something I was gonna say

something we're made for like it really feels like that yeah because you can like I said you can you have a different filter to look at the world through that doesn't feel like everyone's looking through your eyes yes well it gives you it gives you um like guidelines it gives you it makes it it's almost like you know I'm vegan and sometimes when you go to an all-vegan restaurant it's like harder to pick what you want to eat whereas like you go to a non-vegan restaurant and you got like four items okay pick one of

the four and they're good enough you're like all right well this is this is easier for my brain to be I mean this is such a so not the same thing but like in terms of like creating for something and you know I've always said like that I love writing from perspectives of other people and from different stories that I've heard I find it really hard to write about my exact feelings in my life and so what was I made for would never have ever been written even though it is every single lyric is exactly

how I feel exactly how I feel every lyric exactly how I feel you hear me or you want look at my mouth it's exactly how I feel it's about my life anyway sorry but what was I made for would not have been written because I wouldn't have thought to write it I wouldn't have thought you would have been sick and guessing everything in every thought and amen if I say that now if I say it's something you paid for people are going to think it's this and think it's that and what's beautiful about Bobby is

that you get to say it about Bobby but it also what is the difference really at the end of the day isn't that kind of what we're talking about and what isn't that what the movie is kind of about from what I can tell it's like what's real and what's not isn't it kind of all the same thing right it's kind of fast can your dad work at Mattel my dad he did not he didn't work like what Will Ferrell is doing in the movie he was like he was um what's it called Carpenter he

was a carpenter he he uh you know he'd like find little scraps on the ground sometimes like little because he would build things if you bring home like body legs literally like like because I was obsessed with Barbie and he he was I mean this is this is like this is a children's film in itself young Billy eilish getting just oh my God here you go dumps a whole bag of Barbie body parts I get to make my perfect yeah well one of the things he brought back one time which I think I still have

somewhere that was my favorite thing was there was like a a little apple like he brought like a little Fake Plastic pink Apple and it was like it looked like a candy apple but it was plastic and it was just glossy bright Barbie pink and he I think he found it on the ground somewhere working on because you know he was he was the one building all the he was like he was the one building the dream houses and building the sets and working you know all day to do that stuff and like find little

Barbie legs or little Barbie you know shoes I could bring them secretly I don't know if he was allowed to do that but he did oh look at that I love that yeah look I mean at the end of the day I mean you know he's he's building the universe he can take a couple of apples and two legs that's true and also because you know I never like went to his work but I of course pictured it like it is in the movie oh so he's he's actually building these inside of Bobby yeah I

pictured it like just full Barbie land just like pink and amazing it comes kin to approve his new home um and you directed the video of course yeah I mean that's not even a thing I don't even bring that up like a wow you directed the video like I know you direct videos I didn't know that you did you direct incredible videos thanks so once you got to grips with the fact that Bobby is you and you are Bobby at least in the parameters of this beautiful song um how did you find directing this video

it's special it's special to me um it's really I don't know I feel I love all my videos and some of them of course have aged poorly but I still really love them all and I think it's gonna age without aging poorly that's true but this one I think I don't know I feel I feel really proud of it I feel like you know in the first conversations of like with the team about what I wanted the video to be it was one of those things you know where I was like all right you have

any ideas for the video and of course I'm like no and then I'm like oh yeah I do like it's already like I don't even I don't realize that it's there but I and it wasn't the full plot it was literally just an image it was just it was just me turned to the like like 40 45 degree angle left profile uh Barbie Blonde Barbie wig yellow dress kind of sage green background desk doing something on the desk don't know what it is that's all I see and that was that was the idea and then

um and then it was more of a discussion of like how what what am I doing at the desk what the hell is the video about let's figure it out I know I mean to be in a situation at this point where you can continue to write songs at the highest level and then have developed a trust within yourself yeah to see the vision through I know everyone will trust you Billy but you've got to trust yourself it's different again like I said you know you can be really talented I'm not saying that's me I'm

saying people can be really talented people can be really talented and have made really good stuff and they can make really bad stuff sure we've seen it I've done it people people bro I've made bad I have I have focus on everybody can invented bad you've met okay but I'm just saying that it is possible and so you know even if I have an idea that I think could be cool you know you still have to put effort in to make it good um we're never gonna assume that's not gonna look this is the thing

we've whenever you come back with music or anything a tour by the way great job on the on Swarm I mean you owned that that episode that was fun right it was amazing oh my God more that yes please there's so much we're just checking in there's loads to talk about in the future when there's stuff to talk about um and I'm keeping you from going and hanging out with Phineas so of course my journalistic Machinery is going to kick in and ask you there was pre-barby where it was sort of the gears were grinding

and now but and now you finished this song it's beautiful it it's a reminder of what you and Phineas are capable of when you're at your most natural and it's and undistracted how has it been after that the creativity side of things recently really good recently really good we're we're um hitting some sort of stride I think we're making stuff stuff is being made I'm thinking about I'm thinking about the future there must be a little bit of this pressure now that you've done multiple sort of tours over multiple projects and you know that you'd

think that you'd think but I don't know it I think I will say I've felt an on a ridiculous amount of pressure for the last you know year of like writing and you know making an album and whatever and honestly honestly I was sitting with Labyrinth at the Met and you know he was talking about he was we were talking about music music and making music and you know what am I working on and I was like I don't know man I I don't know I'm like I don't know what to make like I feel

like what I want to make is like I don't know if people will like it or even if it's good and he I don't really remember exactly how the conversation went but he said something that was like who can't like make what you want to make like what you want to make which is such a like simple ass thing to say that I would have said if he'd done the same thing but honestly I was like oh well in a weird way it's the first time you've you've actually had been probably acknowledged that for a

long time because happier than ever the way I always felt was the identity and the and the the framework and the definition of that album to some degree was a reaction to what you'd been through right before right so it kind of gave you at least a head start on where you should go 100 and also I wasn't thinking about what people would want you know it made me really think like whoa like the way that I you know started off and how I how I first navigated all this was I did not give an

absolute yeah I was like I'm I'm gonna do I don't care I'm gonna do exactly what I want and I don't care who likes it at all because also I didn't think anyone would so it sounded like it I mean look we can all go back and we can listen to Ocean eyes and go duh but at the time you know those that heard it and loved it we knew how special it was but no one knew it was going to stop why would it have right you know it's like the kind of thing that

that doesn't happen and think about that too long that'll you up yeah I know tell me about it and you know I just I didn't I didn't ever think it was gonna become anything so why would I have been making it to become anything I was making what I wanted well here's the good news well here's my little addition to to the um the ever expanding philosophy of the young genius Labyrinth and he'll always be young genius to me because you know as soon as I heard on board I was like you're just going to

be young genius for real like no matter how old you get um no one can ever take that feeling away from you and that sense of purpose away from you no one no one doesn't matter whether one person buys a record or watches your video or no one doesn't matter no one can ever take that away from you or Phineas so just to add to it like it just remember that like it's not like anyone has any investment ownership over your life or your career or your inspiration or what you want to make yeah no

one that's true and why why make stuff I don't like I never did that before so why why do that now this this Barbie experience and this song was such a good Testament of like oh this is just raw like this is and also we didn't you know think we didn't have any idea that it would go one way or the other we didn't we didn't know if they would like it or want to use it or not want it and so we just made the song that we were inspired to make instead of you

know something else and you know it's a depressing little songy so I love your shoes by the way this whole like significant like severe allergy vibers off the chart right here it's so awesome yeah dude I'm trolling I'm trolling these things like me at the Premiere oh I look like a giant toddler controlling bro now aren't you always in a way yes isn't that the point yes dude like what am I gonna please I tried to take myself seriously with the happier than ever period And I was like okay did that let's do something else

I say sorry to Phineas for holding you back for a few minutes I know that you're playing for a studio session um we're going to we're off to make some songs that we'll do another interview about in a year laughs [Music]