Unveiling the SECRET Power of Peptides | Ryan Smith (Peptide Expert)

our body you know starts with DNA that DNA creates RNA which creates proteins and peptides and so whenever we're designing these drugs we're really mimicking body's natural processes as far as weight loss of course the the growth hormones the criticogs are very helpful they they help with body recomposition those peptides which can increase growth hormone by encouraging your pituitary to release growth hormone this is one that was done in athletes before it was really done anywhere else with the idea that if we could increase mitochondrial function you could increase performance foreign podcast and I'm so

excited to have Ryan Smith with me today Ryan you are a superstar uh I'm just so excited to to you know be able to learn from you um so first of all welcome yeah thanks so much for having me excited to talk pets yes so I know there are a lot of subjects that you can go into um so there are two things that we probably can talk about but today we're going to focus on peptides um so first I want to introduce Ryan a little bit um so Ryan is you know right now you're

focusing on true diagnostic but um but just going back a little further you um you went to University um studying biochemistry and then you went to medical school in 2013 so that was 10 years ago and you passed the USMLE step one and then you left medical school and opened up a pharmacy you know that's uh that's quite interesting and you were focusing on peptide synthesis and formulations and that Pharmacy happens to become hugely successful tailor-made uh beautiful company you know you you guys have so much very nicely put out information helping a lot of

practitioners the company became the fourth largest growing company in healthcare in the U.S and grew to 80 million dollars within three years um and with that Pharmacy you saw the value of preventative medicine and um and you with the you know Physicians that Taylor Made was working with there was a lot of um um you know efforts in treating age as a disease so that kind of prompted you to see a need for better tool to assess aging as that correct yeah absolutely and that's when you exited Taylor Made in 2020 and founded true diagnostic

which is very exciting because you created this uh biological age measurement testing and that has become very successful you're working with you know huge number of patients in studies and and very big reputable um universities and institutions like Harvard and Yale and Duke so um so that's why I say you're a superstar because um you're still very young and to be able to found these two powerful companies and make them successful I'm just so impressed by you well you you kind got lucky a little bit um as well but uh I think that you know

one of the one of the fun things is always driven by really cool science and so I think that that's what we'll get into today at least to some degree is uh why why I was so excited about these two areas why everyone else as well I need to hear the story of what happened when you were in medical school taking your exams and then what happened to Pharmacy so there's a there's a good story yeah well you know I just realized I didn't want to be in medicine unfortunately I think that it's a sad

story I think that the world of medicine that I knew existed um was sort of treating sick care um you know we I was working at the University of Kentucky where we were you know I think patients who were maybe seeing positions for the first time in 10 years you know people who really only come into the hospital because they absolutely needed it as an emergency um and it was pretty sad for me I felt like I was just sort of managing care I was uh you know sort of just checking off a list and

if I had known this world of preventative uh medicine existed this this uh Market where people are you know trying to optimize themselves rather than you know trying to uh just wait for disease to occur I think I would have certainly stayed with it but I had no idea at the time that that really existed um and so uh and really the pharmacy a lot of my background in undergrad had been in peptide and protein biosynthesis so doing recombinant chemistry like growing up particular peptides of proteins and you know E coli expressing them purifying them

doing things like x-ray crystallography as well as solid basement business for shorter chain uh amino acid proteins or peptides and so I had some experience in that and whenever um you know I was considering this Pharmacy just sort of walked into it we knew we wanted to do some really Innovative peptides that weren't widely available here um and we started launching a lot of products which people weren't really familiar with so we had to do a little bit of Education to the market um we we tried to sort of teach Physicians about all these different

products and then we just really hit a niche I think I think a lot of Physicians and patients saw some of the really positive benefits of some of these therapies and uh and it really just grew from there yeah well when I was in medical school no one no one told me about peptides but it was going on right so the Russians had been developing them since 1980s how come you knew about it and I didn't know anything about it you know and so I hate to say it but even I was never taught about

it either and even with the things I do today with epigenetics anxiety guide one day on epigenetics as an undergrad and so a lot of these topics I was never necessarily taught but um always had a I would say uh an eye for sport and biochemistry and you know athletes particularly even you know the Russian athletes um you know have been using a lot of these products for for performance related benefits for a long time um and so uh they had been out there not frequently well described or even widely used but um was always

sort of an interesting in medical school you heard about these athletes using these peptides yeah well essentially you know I was uh sort of you know doing this stuff that research and looking for for peptides to be interesting to make or create um and as I was looking for it um I was thinking about getting drawn or attracted to some of that performance enhancing um aspect of it um and so that's when I started to become a little bit more familiarized with it um and then uh you know okay so this is around 2010 right

is around 2010 and you a lot of athletes were already using uh performance enhancing peptides yeah definitely peptides are probably one of the best examples um those have been really used even since as early as 1996 in athletes um trying to do some performance and happening um related uh uh Administration so so yes and and the bill has only gotten you know much more advanced as this sort of uh expansion of peptides has occurred and that is going now at a at a very wide rate with more peptides approved um than any other type of

class of drug molecule I see yeah I have a lot of questions about that um just where do you think at the FDA is at with peptides and what's the big pharma's attitude when it comes to peptides yeah well so so I think that um our definition on this space with peptides has been a little bit obscured because the FDA in big Pharma wouldn't necessarily have the same definition for them uh a drug is a drug whether or not it's a small molecule drug or it's a biologic drug or if it's a peptide-based drug um

and so generally um though the the big Pharma world and even the FDA hasn't seen a lot of peptides and the rationale for that is because uh small molecule drugs which are more stable um and more bioavailable those drugs have always been pushed to Market first by a lot of these big companies so I always mentioned like Viagra as a good example right viagara is a small molecule drug that readily absorbs um it can be taken orally it's really easy and and Pharma companies have known this and so it has a great Market impact vice

versa peptides have always had a little bit of a few weaknesses um one is certainly bioavailability um you know most of them are not going to survive the transit through the stomach acid um so generally they have to be injected that makes them a little bit less advantageous for for wide Market rollout um in addition to that oftentimes they have very very short half-lives so they don't stay around in blood that long and that means you might have to do frequent injections and so that has made them really uh I was a big Pharma and

other companies sort of stay away from them because they have a little bit too uh they're too hard to package or to control in a product that is very easy to distribute across the world and so um so this has really been why small molecule drugs have really taken um the the focus for several decades but now we're starting to see the shift and the reason being is that all those weaknesses that we thought peptides had are now being corrected and were left only with the peptide strengths um and those things like uh you know

being metabolized very very predictably not having a lot of drug drug interactions having a lot of specificity for individual targets and so those all those problems are now fixed which now makes peptides very exciting and now one of a huge area of focus for for big Pharma and the FDA and so we're starting to see that peptide approvals are becoming a lot more frequent unfortunately a lot of peptides are really great products but are in this sort of area of limbo where they're not being developed but they still have really useful uh potential in the

market and so that's where compounding pharmacies really stepped in to be able to produce some of those products that were not technically FDA approved uh but but still had a lot of great clinical application okay so are you saying that uh they're solving the problem that is so it does not have to be injectable and it does not have to be injected frequently anymore yeah a good example of the the who's gone like uh peptides um is everyone you know is familiar with now probably the ozympic um you know prior to that those drugs had

to be ejected once daily like the lyric Lupine and now you only do it once weekly and the reason those are getting better are because we're making them more stable and long grafting in the blood so that's a good example and now you can even take SEMA gluten orally um uh as well and so uh so we're correcting some of those issues with really great silence um and that's making peptides much much more popular wow so when they in the process of making these a little bit more accessible and easier to handle are they changing

the structure to the point that is not natural anymore you know like the strict defense would be natural yeah so these uh that's the great thing about I would say the the biochemistry just generally is our body you know starts with DNA that DNA creates RNA which creates proteins and peptides and so whenever we're designing these drugs we're really mimicking body's natural processes um and so they can be very natural and at first they were some of the earliest peptides were things like insulin um right uh you know synthetic insulin uh mimicking exactly what the

body had but then we we got a more advanced and and by changing that natural product we can make just a very small amount of changes but for a large benefit um so going back to those growth hormone secreted peptides those those peptides which can increase growth hormone by encouraging your pituitary to release growth hormone um that started out just mimicking exactly our endogenous growth or when we're losing hormone that comes from our hypothalamus but then we started to substitute some amino acids and by doing that we increased the half-life so instead of just eight

minutes of stimulation we might get 30. or even longer and so by doing that we are changing them from their natural structure so we're getting rid of that that what is sort of equivalent for the for the body's production but we're tweaking them just enough to have the same effect but to have better pharmaceutical profiles okay that could be some people's pet peeve because you know so much of what we've been seeing with all these pharmaceutical drugs is unwanted side effects um because when you tweak nature then you can end up having all kinds of

unforeseen consequences so do you see that as happening with these peptides yeah for some of them I think that's certainly a possibility um and but I think that you know a lot of companies which are widely in use now um don't have as many you know of those because they've gone through such rigorous testing um but there there are quite a few I think they would have some audits into consequences um but I think again that's the great thing about these peptides is is they have a wide range of applicability you could go with the

bioidentical uh use the exact same thing you might mean you have to inject more it might mean that you have to uh you know inject more uh or frequently or reject at all but um but you can really go back to those basic biochemical principles and really mimic what your body is doing okay so I'm curious um you in our Clinic provide you know over 20 peptides um I do wonder how many of those have been slightly tweaked um what about C because that's the one that you need to inject once a week right so

that's that that has been tweaked the mat C is actually uh just like the endogenously that mitochondria pops out so it is uh it is still identical to the one that's producing your body okay that's really good news that's very comforting since I just got some into myself earlier today yeah that is one of the few exceptions okay all right so when you see when big Pharma um start to tweak these peptides and then um and then sell them as Pharmaceuticals um do you see that as a huge um you know step forward to help

the peptide industry uh or do you see that as possibly squeeze out you know the the more natural forms of peptides because I assume that the big farmer cannot um patent completely natural molecules correct yeah when I think that um unfortunately to get a drug to market right now it takes over 2.3 billion dollars um and that is a lot of money and a lot of money that most people or most companies would not have and so unfortunately a lot of what drugs are going to Market are still controlled by the people that would have

that financing and that tends to be these large drug companies and so um what we're starting to see I think is a pattern is that a lot of early drug work is done and then sold or licensed to these larger pharmaceutical companies and so um so generally I I think that that's a relatively good thing because they have the the time and resources to bring something to Market um but as I mentioned there are quite a few exceptions where we know know that the products are really great but they tend to be not brought to

Market uh if a moral land is a good example even early with Tomorrowland um you know I think that's the a good example as well all these growth hormone security guards which had really great clinical impact um but are never really brought to Market um and so I think that uh there's some pros and cons of both but I would say generally uh there's really no other way to bring them to wide use and so I think you have to go through these pharmaceutical companies and it has to go a little bit of synthetic route

basically it's almost always synthetically produced um but it doesn't always have to be uh different from the product that we would endogenously produce in our body but I I did it most of the time it is just to make sure that uh again we're eliminating any of those concerns that typically happen with the peptides I see okay yeah okay so um you know maybe we give people an idea some of the some of the peptides that um that has been the most popular so when you first got started you said um one of the earliest

ones were the growth hormone promoting peptides right so the samurulin was the earlier one right then correct and that's just actually uh uh just a fragment of your natural endogenous growth hormone releasing hormone um it's just a 29 amino acid fragment of that same product and so that was certainly I would say that class the girlfriend on secreted dogs were certainly the biggest class that we originally started with um and the reason being is that unlike growth hormone they were less expensive um they didn't have contraindications for prescribing off label like growth hormone does by

the FDA um and they generally didn't have a lot of side effects such as you couldn't overdose them for instance and have any of the side effects you might have if you dose growth hormone a little bit too high and so it really was a a good alternative um to be able to help with adults growth hormone deficiency disease while still avoiding maybe the more expensive and uh certainly the the more heavy-handed product the growth hormone and then there are newcomers that came along um so in my clinic I I do like the combination of

April Merlin and CJC 1295. so what do you think of that combination versus Samora Lynn yeah so right so I think it was definitely a step in the right direction so um you know here we go through a little bit of terminology um aspect but uh CJC 1295 um is also goes by the name of mod grf um 129 and and uh so basically what they did they took that 29 amino acid sequence of uh of if a moral or sorry of a femoral one and they substituted out just uh essentially four amino acids and

so that's all that happens for amino acids changed but the binding time on the pituitary uh essentially uh almost tripled um and so you got a lot more secretion of growth hormone um with really this same type of dosing and so that was certainly a step in the right direction um people call it also CJC because technically it's slightly different than that mod grf but it was developed by a company called conjokin and this is a company that does really one thing which that attach a small molecule products to these peptides to give even longer

lasting in the blood system and so people might say cj3 with DAC or the drug activity complex and when they do they're talking about actually that that little addition given by conjokim which actually means that you only have to dose it once per week a little bit more like that thymoglutide and so um so those were certainly a step in the right direction but I think ultimately it culminates in probably what I think is the best growth hormone Secret Of God which is the Tesla moralin oh really okay we do use that in the clinic

um and mostly for weight loss purposes um but but you think that may be even better than e-prim oil in the CJC combined yeah certainly well I think that uh the igf-1 benefits are certainly larger the average increase in igf-1 with tests Tomorrowland is is on average 181 points um which is you know a very large increase and uh and so I think that depending on how much growth hormone stimulation you need um it's certainly a good Avenue but uh the reductions in this erraticus tissue the improvements in cognition uh the reduction in carotid into

the media thickness all of those are benefits which have been really heavily um uh proven with the Tessa Moreland okay um and does that one come with DAC as well it doesn't um so it is actually a 44 amino acid peptide um and it's got a a small lipid molecule at the end um and uh that gives it a really good stability um and gives it really good potency that's why you're seeing such you know large increases of igf-1 um because when you stimulate that pituitary your producing growth hormone creates igf-1 in the liver and

you have really really potent effects so you personally I mean if you are going to take a growth hormone you know secrete a Gog you will go for test Marlin I would yes um yeah I think that it is is certainly the the largest effect I might not do the full dose um I don't know them uh you know my idea point tends to be very low anyway um but I might do a half milligram instead of uh you know one milligram dose or two milligram dose but but yes I think that it is certainly

uh one of the most potent and effective okay and if somebody's buying something like a primordial and CJC and you would you would say go ahead and use the the one with dark I would say without that actually um yeah it's a yeah so that's an interesting um um distinction and I'm glad you asked because I wouldn't have really gone into it but um I think that sometimes that long-term stimulation a week of stimulation is not always what should happen um so in the case of growth hormone we have this very uh diurnal patterns right

so whenever we go to sleep we see the biggest increase and then you know when we wake up it's generally much lower with things like this CJC with the DAC you get so much stimulation you miss a little bit of that circadian rhythm generated pulse of growth hormone and so it's a little bit less natural I think going back to some of the questions you were asking earlier and so um I think that uh generally if I were going to the TJC for more on combination I would do it uh uh instead of the deck

and I would do it every night before bed to mimic that natural girl from one Peak right and then how important it is to have a two-day break because we tell people to do 5 nights a week yeah certainly so so that is um the we sort of started that convention very early with with true diagnosis TaylorMade uh compounding and and uh we did it because we didn't want to develop a resistance or tolerance to growth hormones secretion um and doing that process we never saw that actually happened um but with that being said I

think that we saw that you keep sometimes more frequently as long as it's not an extended duration um then you generally are probably not going to have problems with down regulation and so um injections yeah and you know at one point in time we had people who were dosing it um you know up to three times per day once in the morning once in the afternoon once a night for for several weeks on end and we still saw that they were having reliable increases in growth hormone um with the administration I wouldn't recommend that but

but I think that uh it's probably best practices to still have uh to still have two days off uh most days and what's your philosophy on how long a person should stay on you know let's just say that the growth hormones secreted gods yeah so I think every peptide is different but for the growth hormone secreted dogs I uh probably I'm urging a little bit more coffin um than I used to uh whenever we were first doing this um and the reason being I think is some of my priorities have changed a little bit um

as it relates to what outcome you're really looking to speak um you know I think with growth hormone stimulation you're driving a proliferative growth process um and and I think that uh that might not always be the thing that you want um you know I think that there's now another side of the coin especially from a longevity perspective where you might want to to sometimes have those periods but then and other times you might want to have more restrictive periods of growth where you're being more uh conservative um in some of those processes for better

longevity and so um I think that uh you know you could stay on them for a long time without really any negative effects but I think um you know my My Philosophy has changed maybe doing it uh you know three months on maybe three months off or something similar to that okay okay yeah that's super helpful yeah and what about some other peptides I think um you know of course the the most popular one I would say is bpc157 TB 500 right they become very famous I'm sure all the athletes are using it so can

you talk a little bit about these two yeah certainly so um the the thymus in beta or the tb500 is actually funny uh um uh the TB 500 actually was named um based off of a horse uh product a Veterinary product which was given to help race horses um recover from injury um and so that's how it became the name pb500 sort of like a brand name um it was really built in the veterinary world and when it's starting the veterinary World it went to the bodybuilding World which is why um so it's sort of

kept named tb500 but the thymus in beta 4 is really the real name of that product and that's a product that is mimics exactly the same product that is produced by our own bodies um uh naturally um and it is a great repair product it is actually the same yeah controversy yeah so there's a a lot of time excavator for fragments um they still have biological activity that are sometimes shorter and so um the the tp500 it really is a I would say yeah ubiquitous for anything that has to do with diamonds and beta 4.

um uh but uh but technically the tb500 has a technical designation doesn't exist it's just a brand name okay all right all right so this is a brand name for tb4 correct it's correct okay okay um and then the uh you know what do you think the fact that a lot of people are using the two together do you think that they are synergies when the two are used together 157 TB 500. yeah absolutely yeah they're both great recovery products uh for repair and recovery and and have so many different applications I'm really actually excited

for the time to see beta 4 because that one's actually very close to FDA approval um which is uh is interesting the bpc on the other hand is very far away uh but but I I like both of them a lot and I've used both of them uh myself to repair in a couple of sports injuries I've seen miraculous changes to help prepare for surgery related outcomes um and so I am a big fan of both of them and they both act uh very differently um uh and so I generally would say that the diamonds

and beta 4 profile is a little bit more soft tissue and muscle mass um whereas the the bpc is really good at reducing nation and better with tendons and ligaments um and so I think that together they can can both have a synergistic effect have really great repair and Recovery interesting are they both good for bones or or the bpc is a better one for for bone health yeah so I would say that the bpc is slightly better for bone health um uh but uh but you know I think that uh there's a very very

few studies we don't help for either of them um but uh but again I think for repair and Recovery they're both going to help um anything that needs vascular circulation um the thymus in beta of course is really a good product for okay so the the thymus metaphor is good for for circulation um yeah so what one of the main things that it's doing is increasing um proteins like uh Vega which help with the angiogenesis and bringing blood flow to new areas um and and so um so yeah anything that would require um you know

angiogenesis uh or you know accelerated wound healing that is where thymus beta 4 is really going to uh to be a star mm-hmm and do you think that they're both good for cardiovascular health yeah much more than thymus in beta 4 again I think um the Simonson beta 4 uh has many studies in in cardiac issues and improvements um and so again dealing with more angiogenesis um you know in in and so this it's really perfect for a cardiac type of application okay and what about I think there's a little bit of a you know

a difference in opinions about whether or not to inject these peptides directly into the soft tissue or joints um different practitioners have different ideas well what are your thoughts well I I will say that there aren't really any studies um comparing one to the other so I think that most of what we know tends to be anecdotal um and and uh I would say that in my personal opinion um I haven't seen a ton of applications where injections in the tissue May plays a major benefit um outside of just dosing regularly um but with that

being said there are a few exceptions I think uh especially in you know a vascular areas and and uh I think that even in in particularly cosmetic procedures um there are there are some benefits of injecting locally but I don't think it's absolutely needed hmm okay cosmetic procedures utilizing uh thymus metaphor yeah certainly so a lot of people will uh I would say use times beta 4 or even the VPC um as it's going to help improve collagen synthesis particularly by type 1 collagen synthesis um and so a lot of people will microneedle it for

instance into faces a lot of people will uh you know after plastic surgery try and inject it locally um uh so they're they're a couple cosmetic applications I've seen that have been really effective very interesting yeah because of course we we hear most about the ghk copper for cosmetic use um do you think that copper components sometimes causes problems with patients um I I would say if you're dosing it too high certainly um so uh you know you can one of the main features of this is that people start to see the limit of their

nails turn blue that that little white circle that you you know you have way too much copper and you might need to chelate it um but uh but generally I think that um it's going to be hard to dose it that high especially if you're doing it on a non-injectable format like a topical application um then you're probably not gonna have to use the copper um but sometimes if you're injecting it uh you can certainly have some of those issues where you're having too much copper um and and I think there is there's an important

balance between ghk regularly the tripeptide and the ghk with copper um uh Lauren Pickard who who really was the creator of the ghk says talks a lot about their different profiles he talks about ghk for instance increasing stimness of stem cells making them more available whereas the ghk copper more differentiating stem cells to be able to help repair and recover into the necessary tissue so there's certainly balance there that needs to be struck but I think that it's very rare that people will probably overdose the copper too much so that it would cause a problem

yeah or reaction to the Copper I'm not sure if that has has occurred uh so are they both naturally occurring the ghk yeah Hopper okay absolutely the copper is uh is relatively well attracted to that tripeptide so you have to really make a point uh to to make sure that it's not binding to The Copper very interesting yeah well that can only find out from a real biochemistry and then I want to ask you about weight loss peptides of course that's hugely popular right uh people people are desperate for weight loss and now they have

this exciting new tool that everybody's is is getting you know thanks to the Kardashians um and um to the point where there's now phrases like the uh was it called ozampic face when people lose too much weight then their face you know it's let me yeah rapidly and then there's drooping I mean there's a new cultural phenomenon um so so in our Clinic um as far as weight loss of course the the growth hormones the critagogues are very helpful they they help with body recomposition um and then there are a few other ones so so

that would be you know in our Clinic the April Maryland CJC Tessa Moreland um and then there are these other ones I want to kind of ask you a little bit so the most famous is samagutide which is what does that pick some people have scoured internet and looking for problems and have found a few in general is extraordinarily safe right but um there's been reports of pancreatitis correct and what other things that may be of concern yeah so certain relationships to certain types of cancers like the men cancers um uh are really big contraindications

um but I would say on a on a daily basis uh the things that people are going to experience the most generally can relate to those GI issues the the company uh the semically tied and and it's also why they tend to have to be titrated up and so I would say that for the large majority they're not going to experience some of the issues like any type of cancer related issue or or uh any even even the pancreatitis which is uh more common uh than than some of those other um relatively uh um common

effects like the GI effects the constipation for instance um or nausea I think being the two most common okay you're saying the the pancreatitis is very uncommon is that but yeah no I was just gonna say the bigger times happen it's not unheard of but it's not nearly as common as as nausea and or constipation which generally tends to be the biggest side effects okay and what about people also ask about rebound weight gain or just going back to their original weight or maybe even heavier than what they were before but you know what what

I hear is that if they're eating healthy they're not going to get back to the previous weight so what what are your thoughts yeah so so generally I think the data shows that there is a slight rebound of weight um but I think that the assumption is that uh they're probably not having those same healthy eating habits and the reason being is a lot of the the effect size of some of these GOP ones are through appetite reduction um where they're not eating as much they're not even taking as much food and so I think

that when people stop sometimes their diet also shifts so it's always hard to have a controlled trial where you're incorporating that and seeing about weight loss but if you um I think that if you can keep up those good diet lifestyle related um uh habits I think that you probably will gain very little weight back yeah okay so what are the other benefits for for old zenpic or semiglutite besides the weight loss yeah so I so I I think that number one of which is the insulin sensitivity um being responsive to insulin and this is

something that has received a little bit of controversy lately um because some people think that it might be actually worsening some insulin um uh resistance problems but I think that um you know again it's controversial but I think that that anything that is helping improve your insulin response is great um I think uh you know now that I work in in specifically in the field of longevity with true diagnostic I think that uh you know we have a thing that that uh almost everyone develops diabetes if they live long enough um with this insulin resistance

related issue and so things like the SEMA blue tie which help improve our response to blood sugar um or even some other you know diabetes related medications like uh some of the sgl2 Inhibitors which help you sort of uh pee out glucose in your urine all those things tend to have uh I would say a positive impact on longevity so that's one of my favorite things about the same blue side wow that's great right and what about motzi I remember we talked about that before and you do uh you do like that peptide quite a

bit Yeah so I love the Matzi and actually this is one that was done in athletes before it was really done anywhere else um with the idea that if we could increase mitochondrial function you could increase performance um and and so uh so we really even started in athlete use before it was even widely available to the medical field um so I love the The Moth see I think especially um in theory but I think that the practical application of dosing is sometimes difficult um you know know how much to dose and how frequently it

does a lot of those studies really haven't been done to the point they need to and I think that probably at the moment uh people are probably under dosing the Mozzy not doing it as frequently as they should or not doing it to the high enough dose and I think that to get to a really great therapeutic effect you probably would have to spend a lot of money um to be able to be able to dose that appropriately well what will be a really good then you know so I think that uh again it's all

conjecture um unfortunately because we don't have much data the data that we do have is from uh for instance even people like children who are developing type 2 diabetes early in life and then have suppression of their endogenous monthly production um and and so uh so it's difficult to say but I think that uh you know whenever we rolled it out of Taylor Made we were doing very very light at those things um and we were doing it three times per week and I think that generally 10 milligrams even twice a day um would be

uh more toward a dose that I think you'd start to see really good efficacy especially even for performance um and and so I think that um instead one of my favorite products for mitochondrial benefit outside of the mod feed given those issues is the F of 31. um the ss31 is it's hard to find sometimes but I uh I would say it tops my list of all of the peptides hmm okay well okay the back to my C the 10 million the recommended dose I've seen was 10 milligrams once a week well it's certainly not

hurting right I think that you know what we know with the mod fee is that it's encouraging a lot of processes that are beneficial for for as you mentioned weight loss and also performance you know leading to a car increases which you know it increases mitochondria and metabolic function and so um so I think certainly 10 milligrams is nothing to nothing bad about that um but I think to really see some of those benefits uh you would want to do something much much higher um and much more frequently again the half-lives of these things are

very very short in the case of the mod feed and um once you reconstituted um it it it degradates by 90 within four hours um and so it is uh it is highly unstable um and quickly degraded not just outside of the body once it hits liquid but even inside the body um and so I think that uh that dosing is is is probably a little low okay so okay I've heard other things about the gradation so um but you guys have tested it in the in the lab I assume about the 90 degradation yeah

certainly and and uh there and what it's worth that wasn't even our testing that was actually published in one of the mod C papers um 90 degradation within four hours okay I I think I've heard you know some other you know other opinions and some on some podcasts but um but you're pretty certain that that's the case because that that makes a big difference about what you give patients yeah 100 certain uh okay okay yeah no doubt in my mind whatsoever um about the degradation I'll even send you that trial because you can see it

so do people feel a um you know as far as energy level because a lot of people suffer from low energy um by increasing their mitochondrial function do they notice an improved energy on motzi yeah certainly so um I I think that especially again a good dose thing but you know with the Moxie you'll improve your insulin sensitivity you'll improve your protection against diabetes but I think some of the biggest things that people see is it it's sort of like an exercise mometic because what we're doing uh whenever we give the mod C we're then

sort of starting to Nova purine synthesis which leads to a byproduct called a car and this is a car has been a product that she's been in sports scoping for a long time um but because what that does is it sort of activates the amp kinase which is the same process which is activated with exercise um and once I'm kinase is activated you can also activate something called pgc1 Alpha and that increases mitochondrial biogenesis and that's really what we want um because it's driving those cellular energy processes um and so that sort of Loop and

pathway is a sort of positive regulating and so you'll certainly feel that in terms of energy and then there's another weight loss peptide five Amino one Q what are your thoughts on that and that also increases NAD level right and also help with mitochondria Health correct yeah certainly so so I was actually the first person to ever take the ma uh the five of me don't want to make you um and at that point we were trying to do it as an injection um and it was awful one of the most painful injections I've ever

done um but I I had seen the the data by Dr Waterland um come out of the University of Galveston and um you know it was right around the same time that um I would say that NAD and sirtuins were gaining a lot of popularity um and so uh the injections didn't work at all but but uh the the oral products um certainly uh are something very good and technically it's a small molecule instead of a peptide but it's one that I'm a very big fan of so you don't think the injectable is a good

form no I don't and the reason being is that uh one and Q is very uh difficult to solubilize um in water and so um so I think that the world version is perfectly fine you get bioavailability um and uh and it certainly worked um you know we're even doing NAD testing the true diagnostic I've seen the 500 you know wanting to increase that intracellular NAD level um beyond that some of the effects it has on muscle regeneration are are pretty exciting okay and do people also notice increased energy level yeah I would say that

um some people might um I I think that uh one thing that I saw um there was certainly unique is just improvements in performance um I had some of the craziest uh increases with performance that I've ever had with any type of product um with the five Amino um and uh and again I had no idea why at this point one of the first studies really just described it as a way to increase in ad um and I had no idea why it was so much of an effect on me from a performance athlete but

I loved it uh and then it's really thereafter a couple other papers came out showing the impact on skeletal muscle um and uh and that made a little bit more sense um you know it activates the satellite stem cells and muscle um and so I think that uh although some people might experience some energy benefits I think the performance impacts are certainly something that uh I think most people will feel yeah fantastic yeah you know maybe I have an improved version of the five Amino and one mq I'm not sure because it's highly soluble looks

beautiful not painful when I inject so I'm wondering if things have changed yeah yeah I would be a little careful about the injectable I I know from experience but one of the other things is that the five Amino 1q is usually given as an iodine salt and sometimes much like we talked about with the copper if you give it too frequently or you bypass that first pass metabolism um you might increase iodine levels a little too high um so something to take a look at there um as well but I should also mention there are

new generations of the five Amino 1mq um so shortly after um its development uh actually Dr Waterland created a spin-off company just to develop this product um and they very quickly got pharmaceutical interests and are now on second and third generation versions of the same molecule that um that are in pharmaceutical development and will hopefully hit the market uh over the course of the next decade is that why the solution is like Amber color is because of iodine yeah it is okay interesting and then the last weight loss peptide uh is melanitan so so there's

of course one and two um do they both have weight loss properties they too although the two has much more weight loss properties but uh I always like to mention that the Millennium fan one is actually FDA approved as Apple melanocide how often do people get hyperpigmentation you know the the fact that they're they're they're you know pigments are getting a lot darker you know that may upset a lot of people yeah I would say that uh it's something to expect with the Melania tan too um you would not see it as much with the

Milano Tan One um which is usually given as a pellet actually for Vitiligo um but uh but with that being said yeah almost everyone should expect it but it is also dose dependent um and so uh for instance I would say that uh the more melanocytes you have so generally the darker you are um at Baseline the more you're going to experience that as a side effect um because uh what it does and it stimulates your melanocytes but you're uh but but obviously everyone has a very different amount of land size and so it'll affect

some people differently and I think that generally the biggest complaints are some of those mucous membranes will start to turn purplish like your tongue or your lips um and and so uh or the sort of even making the under your eyes a little bit darker then the very important question is that reversible absolutely reversible but it takes time you have to lose that melanin um and uh and that can take some time uh certainly but they're also for what it's worth peptides which also can help lighten your skin as well um and and so uh

some of those are in frequent and contraceptical ingredients but uh some really interesting things happening there too yeah yeah okay very cool and then um there are some you know a few other categories um one is the the brain peptides which are very much in need I you know see how challenging brain conditions are and it's they're absolutely important so in your mind I mean they're they're various ones that I've seen research you know looking at different extracts from from animals brains um so the I guess the most well-known one is the cerebral license right

yeah and of course people raise the question how safe is it is you know as a pig brain extract and how would you answer that I would say very safe um very safe the cerebral license uh especially we're getting it from a good source which is important um the super license is approved in now over 70 countries um the United States is unfortunately not one of them um but it is uh it has been approved by multiple countries for for things like stroke or traumatic brain injury um and and so I am certainly a big

fan of this real life and I think it is very very safe um uh one of the things I should mention is one of the big fears about brain related products for extracts is or things like prions or mad cow disease type of things and and something that is interesting is that pigs are actually naturally prion resistant um they almost never get prions and so you don't have to worry about anything like that and most everything else is Thoroughly tested for um in these pharmaceutical batch ingredients and so so I think true life is is

very very thick wonderful and if you're treating somebody with you know stroke either acute or or chronic a long time ago um what will be the dosing would you recommend daily dose for you know I've seen protocol of like 16 weeks what do you think is the ideal way of using that yeah so most of the clinical trials which have been done using the cerebral item do it as an IV infusion and those IV infusions can get to very very high doses um you know upwards of 50 milliliters uh infused on a daily basis for

every day for multiple days um and and so you can take very aggressive approaches but I also think that it sort of shows you that there's you really can't overdo it um a lot of these uh you're not going to overdose on these products and so um I think that it also has I should say in the research setting really only been used or studied really acutely usually within the first three to six months after some type of event um and so a lot of what we might be able to do chronically and at what

doses is still a little bit of a guess but I think that what we've seen at least anecdotally is that you know one milliliter of the of the solution which is usually a 215 milligrams per ml is is consistently used and has gotten some really great effects um but again hasn't been widely studied as much as a big IV infusions okay and something like daily injection of that one one milliliter for 16 weeks that sounds pretty reasonable yeah definitely you're not going to overdose it and I think that that I've seen that doses work for

quite a few people and what kind of conditions have you seen you know people have that have gotten help for from this yeah so definitely uh post-stroke um uh it's been one probably one of the most frequent applications um but even post TBI um any traumatic brain injury of any type but even things like peripheral neuropathy um I've seen have some some really great effects um and so I would say those are certainly the three most common but I mean I've seen it used in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's um there's some good studies on maybe some

of the apoe4 biology which we might have um some beneficial effects on so I think it has a lot of really positive effects across the um neurological spectrum and then can really help with a lot of different things but uh mostly I would say uh definitely in stroke or TBI what about ALS or Ms yeah so I've certainly uh know a lot of people that are using in those conditions I myself don't have I would say a ton of experience there but I've heard uh certainly great things okay great and then uh another interesting peptide

is dihexa is one of the few that actually is taken orally I mean it's widely available so um you know people talk about the was it 10 million times produce help you produce 10 million times more brain derived neurotropic Factor um well that sounds great but in practice does that actually promote that much benefit yeah 10 million times the potency of bdnf um it is mimicking Angiotensin IV which we've known as a great uh sort of no Tropic product for a long long time um and some of the results that I've seen with daihexa have

been extraordinary um one of my favorite uh things if you're if you're listening to this right now um I would recommend pausing it for a few seconds going to Vimeo as a platform and searching Dr Joseph Harding um uh daihexa um and I recommend looking at it because there's a certain part of that video which is uh astounding it's really one of the first times I came across diaxa and what they actually are doing is they're inducing Parkinson's in mice um and so they have a uh three mice here they have one Mouse that's normal

they have one Mouse who Parkinson's has been induced upon um and then they have a mouth that had Parkinson's juice but has been treated with that hexa and one of the ways that they test this is they they encourage demise to hang from a rope so they put their front two paws on a robe almost like you're doing a pull-up um and then they just wait and see how long you can stay up um and uh it's extraordinary to see because as you would imagine the Parkinson's uh um Mouse drops very very quickly um it's

only really got one arm that they can do it and then it sort of drops off um then you have the backpack the treated Mouse and then the normal mouth and uh the normal mouth actually drops second but by a wide margin uh the the hexa treatment Mouse probably stays on that line twice as long as even the normal Mouse and yeah it's incredible to see and even before that you can see some amazing pictures of of the the neuron growth with with dihexa and some of these animals and it is astounding how powerful it

is um and so uh in in a lot of times brain diseases are very hard to treat um a lot of times because they don't have a lot of uh you know the blood brain barrier having targeted approach churches and just the nature of these conditions are sometimes very difficult so sometimes a heavy-handed tool like the hexa can be really good but other times I can see that you probably wouldn't want that as much stimulation there especially for things that are more just no Tropic based um uh benefits so for what conditions would you I

mean Parkinson's that sounds like that would be very appropriate I've heard doctors who treat kids with autism um they give them the hexa so what kind of conditions have you seen people using it for yeah I've seen people use it for the broad spectrum everything from those tbis and strokes we talked about to all Alzheimer's and Parkinson's to even just trying to maintain cognitive function with age um so I think people can say in a variety of circumstances I think probably the people who are generally the most positive about it are the people who have

the most serious conditions and have you heard of great results from practitioners uh I have but I would say dude sometimes it's a little mixed um in terms of uh uh the the responses some people might not experience anything other people will say it's life-changing and so um I really think that uh you know maybe we're not sure maybe the best indications yet but I know that we we it's certainly a strong nootropic uh and uh powerful brain product yeah so the the PO that hexa goes across the Beloved barrier that's no problem very easy

I assume correct and it was made that way um and like I said the mimic agency before but to be orally violable and to get across the brain okay all right and then there are three other um brain peptides that I use in the clinic um c-link cmax MP 2228. so and that's covering some grounds and I love to hear your thoughts on these three so let's say somebody comes in with anxiety um which one would you grab first uh certainly uh the one with the most data on anxiety is this v-link um the c-link

uh has been been studied a couple times for anxiety and and with the C-Max is one of those Russian peptides um it's been around for quite a while yeah and then if somebody has uh cognitive issues ADHD then definitely see Max yeah certainly it's got definitely more studies in that as well again another angiotin thing in the making product um but uh but yes the C-Max is definitely more for that acute no troubled effect yeah are you a fan of the PE 2228 alleviate depression what in four days yeah certainly so you know I think

that so we were the first to roll out the PE 2228 that's nasal spray a tailor-made um and and I would say it never really took off like we would have expected it to um and so uh I I think that the mechanism of action is certainly one that's exciting because unlike uh the ssris where you have to wait several weeks to see any type of benefit this is rather immediate and with people now going to things like ketamine for treatment resistant depression it seems like there might be a really great uh Middle Ground where

it can be positive um but I I to be honest with you I did we never saw it a pick that much and with the frequency and prevalence of depression that surprised us a little bit um so I do love the mechanism of action um but you know so to be honest with you I don't remember as much now it's been a while since we've I've used it um but uh if I remember correctly it is um I'll have to I have it here right here um so I'm not sure but uh but I know

that it's it's working again uh and almost in a realm like ketamine um in terms of its track one inhibition um but and I'm not sure sort of what activity that has directly on the brand but I know it's track one okay fantastic and then we come to like a couple immune boosting peptides so the T Alpha One and ll37 so love for you to you know give your your thoughts on that you know a lot of people I mean autoimmune conditions or Lyme disease you know these are rampant and it's devastating so what are

your thoughts on these two peptides yeah so um so I'll start with the famous alpha one because after the ss31 it is one of my favorite products um you know it again is like the server license approved in multiple different countries um and it's just again a great product for improving the immune system um you know even early in coveted with hypothesized to have a a beneficial effect with covet uh it was actually even nominated for FDA equivalent in the United States to be given um as an adjuvant to vaccines to make them work better

um as well as uh to be used with certain types of cancers to help the immune system fight your own cancer and so the time stop one it's an immune stimulant is a product that I certainly like again it's a natural product as well um one of my other anecdotes that I always like to mention about that is that dinosaur one is upregulated significantly during pregnancy as a way to sort of uh help the body's immune system function for essentially two people um and so that's actually one of the biggest times we see massive increases

of its own production um naturally so I'm a huge fan of the thymus Alpha One I think it's very hard to dose it incorrectly or or too often or um for conditions at almost any condition it has a sort of a an immune normalizing effect so I'm a very very big fan well my question is if you're coming down with a cold if you ever come down with a cold will you grab a tiava one right away yeah certainly um definitely in those days of covert I was keeping it around I'll tell you that for

sure um but uh yeah so I think that um you know it's ability to help with a multitude of uh of viral infections um to help even you know with cancer improving the immune system and decreasing that immune Essence that we see with age um definitely a big fan of the fan is enough one and what about the ll-37 um do you how well do you think it has worked for chronic infections from you've what you've seen I am not as big of a fan of the ll37 um yeah so so I I again we

were the first people to start doing this that TaylorMade and it's one of those ones I regret launching a little bit um because uh it's really uh again it's an endogenously produced antimicrobial peptides I mean it's naturally produced by our bodies but the problem I think is um dosing its chemically because uh the ll37 can activate seven different types of receptors all with different mechanisms of action and so um knowing what receptors is actually activating and where it's actually activating is very very complicated and there have now been even more recent studies showing that um

ll-37 has been linked to things like Alzheimer's uh among others and so yeah I think you mean causing it does look to be causal instead of just correlative um uh and uh you know I can imagine what many people would think it'd be correlative because your body might want to upregulate antimicrobial peptides and types of situations that might often induce Alzheimer's but it does look to have um some some cognitive effects um in mechanism rather than just correlative but again it's so hard to say because it has so many different impacts on receptors um and

these are Big g-coupled protein receptors that that have multitude of Downstream effects and so knowing what you're getting with the ll-37 is sometimes very tough but I think for things like topical Administration um uh you know to fight you know staff or or some of those other things that I certainly don't think is a bad idea but um antimicrobial factors are probably one of the biggest growing areas in all of peptide development and so I'm sure that the fellow 37 is not the one we like we'll certainly find them more yeah it's very popular in

the Lyme Community everybody has heard about lo37 so um you know and then I'm a little concerned whether or not this is the best thing for for these patients yeah I'll send you some I'll send you some some information um uh but there was actually even just a study that was published uh you left here at 2022 um which shows that uh how it might have some negative effects in that human microglia wow okay good to know two more peptides I know we're covering a lot of ground but um yeah so the the epithelon and

of course there's a lot of people's favorite as well right it's been that's a bioregulator very powerful um molecule and and then there's another one pineal on so both are pineal peptides so can you talk a little bit about the difference and would you use both and like you know what are your thoughts yeah so I would say that I'm not an expert on the the um um and so I can speak a lot to the epithelium I think that uh I tend to be a bigger skeptic of those bioregulators than most um and uh

the reason being is that um in Russia they're done a little bit more as a multi-level marketing um type of application and none of the sequences of the actual products are released um so it's not really I would say as scientific as some of these other approaches are where we know exactly what the amino acid sequence are we know exactly what the receptors are which is targeting and so for some of those bioregulators I tend to be more skeptical um but the epitalin is one that I think has a lot of great data and I

am a big fan of um you know I think that there's some studies on epitol and I don't particularly uh think are are the best um one in particular being the one that is widely a noted which is that it increases telomerase and telomere length um in in one study it increased uh lung fibroblast to the growings by 33 um and uh and so I think a lot of people early on started doing it as a way to improve telomere length um but unfortunately I could say that I've tested now quite a bit of dealing

your links uh with that Patel and I don't see that big of a correlation um I actually don't see it having much of an impact but I think I am a huge fan of it for all the other effects that it has um even those 15-year follow-up studies where we're seeing you know some some really graphic improvements in in uh in in lifespan and reducing cardiovascular disease um I think that there is uh certainly some benefit um although I think that mechanism action is still a little bit uh unilucidated I see so you're collecting a

lot of data with the the true age testing have you seen any peptides that's making a dent on biological age so we're doing a study right now a controlled study on the epithelen um and unfortunately a lot of our data on the peptides is is not very strong um because most of the time people are doing lung peptide they're usually doing several um and and so it's always hard to pull around which one is having the biggest impact um and so uh so we're actually going to start doing that um right now also talent to

look at some of the biological age impacts and the methylation effects yeah wonderful yeah so I just um maybe we'll just quickly talk about um you know kind of the looking at the the grand future um before we wrap up um you know I have this this thought that if uh if the government and big Pharma doesn't stand in the way um I think peptides peptide therapy can you know peptides can replace probably about 70 percent of the medications that we're using so that's just kind of you know just my sense looking at the natural

abilities for the body to heal and and the incredible number of peptides that exist in our body so um what's your uh what's your thoughts on on my conjecture I I think you're certainly right I think that um I think that that it really in order to make that a realistic possibility we have to go back to treating preventatively right hoping to restore dysfunction before it gets so out of control that that uh it becomes something else that comes to disease entirely and so I think that a lot of peptides are great at having um

some marginal shifts to a more natural state and I think that that's certainly a positive thing and and unfortunately I think that um uh the United States doesn't have a really great um uh legal or system at the moment which would really advocate for the use or exploration of these um I think that we're really going to be Reliant eventually on big Pharma because compounding pharmacies like us for instance of Taylor Made compounding are being forced to stop a lot of compounding of these products and so I think that's a very sad thing as I've

seen how much uh they they help a multitude of people so I'm hoping that changes um but I think pepez is a class of molecule whether or not it's being product by a big Pharma or compounding pharmacies I think you're it's going to be hard to press to find an area where we don't see many new peptides being developed right so um so I I see that you also work with International pharmacies I do a lot of them see much more at latitude uh certainly certainly so uh yeah I'm compounding uh with pharmacists in Mexico

and in Thailand um now we're starting one in Philippines as well as several in the Middle East and and thankfully yes they have a much more latitude and so uh we're actually I would say expanding the frontier of peptide products really since we've stopped tailor-made there haven't been any new peptides introduced into the market none of the compounding pharmacies are doing really anything Innovative they're only doing what we did at TaylorMade compounding um but with some of these International pharmacies we're able to do some other really exciting things uh we're doing the uh the Reddit

through tide uh sort of a new glp-1 a little bit more um uh advanced than the tears protide or even the the uh ozympic where the semically died we're doing some things like growth hormone square yards orally like the animoralin um so some really uh cool new products uh that are happening and we're starting to learn a little bit more so I think a lot of development we're seeing now is going to be more International than it is going to be domestic uh which is unfortunate but at the same time think that I'm glad to

see the development continuing yeah this is so exciting well you are making a great contribution to uh Humanity yeah it's a lot of people's lives this is just incredible using your knowledge and your your courage and and uh your resourcefulness yeah well thank you you do as well I unfortunately I I quit when the going got tough but I'm glad to see that there are so people out there using these in patients lives to improve them and so uh so I'm glad that uh to see that it's still alive and well yeah I'm just so

excited that I I finally brought in peptide to my stem cell therapy you know I think stem cells is very powerful in this overall elevation of the capability of the body to heal and of course there's there's some targeted action too but the peptides just add so much you know tools for me to pinpoint what area I can further address it just uh it's making it really fun yeah so thank you for Paving the way I actually have a presentation on all of the peptides to use with stem cell um so I'll send that to

you as well oh my God I love that okay fantastic yeah okay Ryan so where can people find you and follow you and I'm sure people are very impressed I remember the first time I heard you on a podcast I was like well okay this guy is super sharp yeah this is a very smart guy yeah so I'm sure people will be interested in you know keep learning from you yeah well I would love to share any information that I have um the best way to contact me now is you know with my new company

true diagnostic at Ryan fooddiagnostic.com um and you know again although I'm not doing peptides all the time anymore um I still have a ton of information so a ton of literature a ton of presentations and so if I can share any of those to help anyone I'm more than happy to that's fantastic thank you so much but you do glad we're having a we have such a detailed and interesting conversation yeah certainly thanks so much for having me Dr Carl you're so welcome [Music]