Sergey Lavrov’s interview to Tucker Carlson, Moscow, December 6, 2024

Minister Le thank you for doing this um do you believe the United States and Russia are at war with each other right now I wouldn't say so and uh in any case this is not what we want uh we would like to have normal relations with all our neighbors of course but generally with all countries or not especially with the great country like the United States uh President Putin repeatedly expressed his respect respect for the American people for the American history for the American achievements in the world and uh we don't see any any reason

why Russia and the United States cannot cooperate for the sake of the universe but the United States is funding a conflict that you're involved in of course and now is allowing attacks on on Russia itself so that doesn't constitute War uh well uh we officially are not at War but what is going on uh in Ukraine uh is the some people call it hybrid War uh I would call it hybrid War as well uh but it is obvious that the ukrainians would not be able to do what they doing with long range modern weapons without

direct participation of the American servicemen and this is this is uh this is dangerous no doubt about this we don't want to aggravate the situation but since attacks and other long range weapons are being used against Mainland Russia uh as it War uh we are sending signals and we hope that the last one couple of weeks ago uh the signal was the new weapon system called dnik yes uh was taken seriously uh however we also know that some um officials in the Pentagon and in other uh places including NATO they started saying in the last

few days something like well NATO is a defensive Alliance but sometimes you can strike first because the attack is the best defense uh some others in stratcom I think buin is his name uh representative of stratcom he said something which allows for uh an eventuality of exchange of limited nuclear strikes uh and these kind of uh threats are really worrying because if they are following the logic which some uh westerners have been pronouncing lately that well don't believe that Russia has red lines they announce their red lines these red lines are being moved again and

again and again this is a very serious mistake that's what I'm I I would like to say in response to this question it is not us who started the war Putin repeatedly said that we started the operation in in order to end the war which K regime was conducting against it its own people in the in the parts of donbas uh and uh just in his latest statement the president uh clearly indicated that we are ready for any eventuality but we strongly prefer peaceful solution through negotiations on the basis of respecting legitimate security interest of

Russia and on the basis of respecting the people who live in Ukraine uh who still live in Ukraine being Russians and their basic human rights language rights religious rights have been exterminated by series of legislation passed by the Ukrainian Parliament and they started long before the special military operation since uh 2017 legislation was passed prohibiting Russian education in Russian prohibiting Russian media operating in Ukraine then prohibiting Ukrainian media working in Russian language and the latest of course there were also also steps to cancel any cultural uh events in Russian Russian books were thrown out of

libraries and uh exterminated and the latest was the uh law prohibiting canonic uh Orthodox Church Ukrainian Orthodox Church uh while and you know it's very interesting when people in the west say we want this conflict to be resolved on the basis of the UN chat and respect for territorial Integrity of Ukraine Russia must draw uh the Secretary General of the United Nations says similar things uh recently his representative repeated that the conflict must be resolved on the basis of international law UN chter General Assembly resolutions while respecting territorial Integrity of Ukraine it's a misnomer because

if you want to respect the United Nations chter you have to respect it in its entirety and the United Nations chter among other things says that all countries must respect equality uh of states and right of people for self-determination and they also mentioned the United Nations General Assembly resolutions and this is uh this is clear that what what they mean is the uh series of resolutions which they after the beginning of the special military operation and which demand condemnation of Russia Russia get out of Ukraine territory uh in 1991 borders but there are other United

Nations General Assembly resolutions which were not voted but which were consensual uh and among them is a declaration uh on principles of relations between states on the basis of the chatter and uh it clearly says by consensus Everybody Must respect territorial Integrity of States whose governments respect the right of people for self-determination and because of that represent the entire population living on a given territory to argue that the people who came uh to power through military Kuda in February 2014 represented crimeans or the citizens of Eastern and Southern Ukraine is absolutely useless it is obvious

that crimeans rejected the coup they said leave us alone we don't want to have anything with you so did donbas crimeans held referendum and they rejoined Russia uh donbas was declared by the Poes who came to power a terrorist group uh they were shelled attacked by artillery uh the war started which was stopped in February 2015 and the Minsk agreements were signed and we were very sincerely interested in closing this this drama by seeing Minsk agreements implemented fully uh it was sabotaged by the government uh which was uh established after the C in Ukraine there

was a demand that they enter into a direct dialogue with the people who did not accept the coup uh there was a demand that they promote economic relations with that part of Ukraine and so on and so forth none of this was done uh the people in K were saying we can we would never talk to them directly uh and this is uh in spite of the fact that the demand to talk to them directly was endorsed by the security Council and they said they are terrorists we would be you know fighting them and they

would be uh dying in saries because we are stronger uh had the who in February 2014 uh had it not happened and had the deal which was reached the day before between the then president and the position implemented Ukraine would have stayed one piece by now with Crimea in it it's absolutely clear they did not deliver on the deal instead they staged the coup the deal by the way uh provided for creation of a government of national unity in February 2014 and holding early early elections which the then president would would would would have l

lost everybody knew that but they were impatient and they took the government buildings next morning they went to this maidan square and announced that they created the government of the winners compare the government of national Unity to prepare for elections and the government of the winners how can the people whom they in their view defeated how can they pretend that they respect the the the authorities in cave you know the right for self-determination is the international legal basis for decolonization process which took place in Africa uh on the basis of uh this Charter principle right

for self-determination the people in the colonies they never treated the Colonial Powers Colonial Masters as somebody who represent them as somebody whom they want to see uh in the in the uh structures which govern those lands by the same token the people in east and south of Ukraine uh people in donbas and Nova Russia they don't consider the zelinsky regime as somebody as something which represents their interests how can they when their culture their language their Traditions their religion all this was was prohibited yes and the last point is that if we speak about the

UN chatter resolutions international law the very first article of the UN chter which the West never never recalls in the Ukrainian context says respect human rights of everybody irrespective of race gender language or religion take any conflict the United States uh UK Brussels they would interfere saying oh human rights have been grossly violated we must restore the human rights in such and such territory on Ukraine never ever they mumbled the world's human rights seeing these human rights for the Russian uh and Russian speaking population being totally exterminated by by law so when people say let's

resolve the conflict on the basis of the chatter yes but don't forget that the chatter is not only about territorial integrity and territorial Integrity must be respected only if the governments are legitimate and if they respect the right of their own people I want to go back to what you said a moment ago about the introduction or the unveiling of the Hypersonic weapons system that you said was a signal to the West what signal exactly I think many Americans are not even aware that this happened what message were you sending by showing it to the

world well the message is that you I mean you the United States and the uh allies of the United States who also provide this uh long range uh HP weapons to the KF regime they must understand that we would be ready to use any means not to allow them to succeed in what they call Strategic defeat of Russia they fight for keeping their hemony uh over the world on any country any region any continent we fight for our legitimate security interest uh they say for example 1991 borders um liny gr who visited some time ago

zalinski for another another talk uh he bluntly in presence of zilinski I think said that Ukraine is very rich with rare earth metals uh and we cannot leave this this uh this Rich uh this richness to the Russians we must take it we fight so they fight for the regime which is ready to sell or to give to the West uh all the natural and Human Resources uh we fight for the people who have been living on these lands whose ancestors were actually developing those lands building cities building factories for centuries and centuries we care

about people well not about uh natural resources uh which somebody in the United States would like would like to to keep uh and to have ukrainians just as uh as servants on sitting on these natural resources so the message which we wanted to sell by testing in real in real action uh this Hypersonic system uh is that we will we will be ready to do anything to defend our legitimate interest we hate even to think about war with the United States which will take you know nuclear nuclear character uh our military Doctrine says that the

most important thing is to avoid a nuclear war and it was us by the way who initiated in January 20 22 uh the message The Joint statement by the leaders of the five uh permanent members of the security Council saying that we will do anything to avoid confrontation between us acknowledging and respecting each other's security interest and concerns this was our initiative and the security interests of Russia were totally to Al ignored uh when they rejected about the same time uh when they rejected the proposal to conclude a treaty on security guarantees for Russia for

Ukraine in the context of uh coexistence and in the context when Ukraine would not be ever member of NATO or any other military block this security interest of Russia War presented to the west to Nato and to the United States in December 2021 we discussed them several times including during my meet meeting with Stony blinkin in Geneva in January late January 2022 and this was rejected um so we would certainly like uh to avoid any misunderstanding and since the people some people uh in Washington and some people in London in Brussels um seem to be

not very capable to understand uh we will we will send additional messages if they don't if they don't draw necessary conclusions the fact that we're having a conversation about a potential nuclear exchange and it's it's real um is remarkable not something I thought I'd ever see and it raises the question how much um back Channel dialogue is there between Russia and the United States has there been for the last 2 and a half years is there any conversation there are there are several channels but mostly on Exchange of people who serve terms in Russia and

in the United States there was several swaps uh there are also channels which are not advertised or publ ized uh but basically the Americans sent through these channels the same message which they sent publicly you have to stop uh you have to uh accept the the uh way which will be based on the Ukrainian needs and Ukrainian position uh they support this absolutely pointless peace formula by zilinsky which was a IED recently by Victory plan uh they held several series of meetings Copenhagen forat Burgen what have you uh and they brag uh that next year

first half of next year they will convene another conference and they will graciously invite Russia that time and then Russia would be presented an ultimatum all this is um seriously repeated through various confidential channels uh now we hear something different uh including zinsky statements uh that we can stop now at the line of Engagement line of contact uh the uh Ukrainian government will be will be admitted to Nato but NATO guarantees at this stage would cover only the territory controlled by the government and the rest uh would be would be subject to negotiations but the

end result of these negotiations must be total withdrawal of Russia from from Russian soil basically wait just leaving leaving Russian people to the nazist regime which exterminated all the rights of the Russian and Russian speaking citizens of their own country if I can just go back to the question of nuclear exchange so there is no mechanism by which the leaders of Russia and the United States can speak to each other to avoid the kind of misunderstanding that could kill hundreds of millions of people no no no we we we have this channel which is automatically

engaged when ballistic missile launch is uh taking place uh as regards this Ares Hypersonic ballistic missile mid-range ballistic missile uh 30 minutes in advance the system sent the message to the United States and they knew that this was the ex the the uh this was the case uh and that they don't mistake it for anything uh bigger and real dangerous well I think the system sounds very dangerous well it was it was a test launch you know yes oh you're speaking of the test okay but I just wonder how worried you are that considering there

doesn't seem to be a lot of conversation between the two countries both sides are speaking about Exterminating the others populations that this could somehow get out of control in a very short period and no one could stop it it seems incredibly no we are not we're not talking about Exterminating anybody's population we did not start this War uh we have been uh for years and years and years sending warnings that pushing NATO closer and closer to our borders is going to create a problem yes 2007 Putin Putin started uh to explain you know to the

people who seem to be overtaken by the uh end of history and uh being dominant uh no Challenge and so on and so forth and of course when the coup uh took place the Americans did not hide that they were behind it there is uh a conversation between Victoria nuland and the then American ambassador in ke when they discuss uh personalities to be included in the new government after the coup uh the figure of five billion bucks uh spent on Ukraine after Independence uh was mentioned as the guarantee that uh everything would be like the

Americans want so we don't have any any intention to exterminate Ukrainian people they are um brothers and sisters uh to the to the Russian people how many have died so far do you think on both sides it is not disclosed by ukrainians zinsky was saying that it is much less than 880,000 persons on on Ukrainian side but there is one very uh very reliable figure uh in um Palestine during one year uh after the Israelis started their operation in response to this terrorist attack which we condemned and uh this operation of course acquired the uh

the proportion of uh Collective punishment uh which is against International humanitarian law as well so during one year after the operation started in Palestine uh the number of civilians Palestinian civilians uh killed uh is estimated 45,000 this is almost twice as many as the number of civilians on both sides of Ukrainian conflict who died during 10 years after the coup one year and 10 years so it is it is a tragedy uh in Ukraine it's disaster in Palestine uh but we never ever had as our goal uh killing people and Ukrainian regime did the head

of the office of zilinski uh once said that we will make sure that cities like kov nikol will forget what Russian means at all uh another guy in his office um stated that ukrainians must exterminate at Russians through law or if necessary physically Ukrainian former ambassador to Kazakhstan forgot his name became famous when giving an interview and looking into the camera being recorded uh and broadcast he said our main task is to kill as many Russians uh as we can uh so that our kids have less things to do and the statements like this are

all over the vocabulary of the regime how many Russians in Russia have been killed since February of 2022 it's it's not for me to disclose this information the in the time of military operations special rules exist and our ministry of Defense follows these rules but the the very interesting fact that when zalinsky was uh playing uh not in international Arena but at his uh comedy club or whatever it is called uh he was uh there are videos of from from that period when he was bluntly defending the Russian language he was saying what what is

wrong with Russian language chai speak Russian Russians are our neighbors Russian is our one of one of our languages uh and get lost he said to those who wanted to sorry uh to attack the Russian language and Russian culture uh when he became president he changed very fast and uh before the military operations in September 2021 he was interviewed uh and at that time he was conducting war against donbas in violation of the Minsk agreements and the interviewer asked him what he thought about the people on the other side of the line of contact and

he answered very thoughtfully uh you know there are people and there are species and if you living in Ukraine feel associated with the Russian culture my advice to you for the sake of your kids for the sake of your grandkids get out to Russia and if if uh this guy wants to bring Russians and people of Russian uh culture uh back uh under his territorial Integrity I mean it's it's uh it shows that he is not adequate so what are the terms under which Russia would cease hostilities like what what are what are you asking

for uh 10 years ago in February 2014 we were asking only for the deal between the president and the opposition yes to have government of national Union had to hold early elections to be implemented the deal was signed and we were asking for the implementation of this deal they were uh absolutely impatient and aggressive and they were of course pushed I have no slightest doubt by the Americans because if Victor nand and the US ambassador agreed the composition of the government why wait for five weeks for five months to hold early elections the next time

we were in favor of something was when the Minsk agreements were signed yes uh I was there the negotiations lasted for 17 hours and um the deal was well Crimea was lost by then by that time uh because of referendum and nobody including my colleague John kry meeting with us nobody in the West Was raising the issue of Crimea everybody was concentrated on donbas and the Minsk agreements provided for territorial Integrity of Ukraine ukine minus crime this was not even raised uh and a special status for a very tiny part of donbas not for the

entire donbas not for no for Novar Rosia at all part of donbas under this Minsk agreements endorsed by the security Council should have the right to speak Russian language to teach Russian langu language to study in Russian to have local law enforcement like in the in the states of us uh to be consulted when judges and prosecutors are appointed by the central Authority and to have some facilitated economic uh connections with neighboring regions of Russia that's it uh something which uh president macron promised to give to corica and uh still is considering how how to

do this and when these agreements were sabotaged All Along by first by pareno and then by zilinski both of them by the way came to uh presidency running on the on the promise of peace and both of them uh light uh so when these Minsk agreements were sabotaged to the extent uh that we uh we saw the attempts to take this tiny part of donbas by force uh and we as Putin explained we have at that time we suggested this security arrangements to Nato in the United States which was which was rejected uh and when

the plan B uh was launched by Ukraine and its sponsors trying to take this part of donbas by force it was then that we that we launched the special military operation uh had they implemented the Minsk agreements Ukraine would be one piece minus Crimea but even then when ukrainians after we started the operation suggested to negotiate we agreed there were several rounds in Belarus and one later they moved to Istanbul and in Istanbul Ukrainian delegation put a paper on the table saying those are the principles on which we are ready to agree and uh we

accepted those princip the Minsk principles no no no the Istanbul principles that was April 22 right uh which was no NATO but security guarantees to Ukraine collectively provided with the participation of Russia uh and this security guarantees would not cover Crimea or the east of Ukraine it was their proposal uh and U it was initialed and the head of the Ukrainian delegation in Istanbul who is now the cheer of the zelinsky faction in the Parliament uh he recently few months ago in an interview he confirmed that this was the case and on the basis of

these principles we were ready to draft a treaty but then this gentleman who headed the Ukrainian delegation in Istanbul he said that Boris Boris Johnson visited and told them to continue to fight um then there was um but Boris Johnson on behalf of he said no but you know the the guy who who who who initialed the paper he said it was Boris Johnson other other people say it was Putin who ruined the deal because of the massacre in B but massacre in B is something which I they don't they never mentioned anymore massacre in

bua I do and we do uh in a sense uh they on the on the defensive several times in the United Nations security Council uh sitting at the table with Antonio gues I two years ago and last year or and last year and this year the general assembly I raised the issue of B and said guys it is strange that you are silent about butcher because you were very vocal when BBC team founded itself uh on a street where the bodies were located uh and can we uh I inquired can we get the names of

the persons whose bodies were uh broadcast by BBC uh total silence I addressed Antonio gues personally in the presence of the security council members uh he did not respond then at my press conference in New York uh after the end of of the general assembly last September uh I asked all the correspondents guys you are journalist maybe you're not an investigative journalist but journalists normally are interested to get the truth and buter thing which was played all over the uh media Outlets condemning Russia is not of any interest to anyone politicians un officials and now

even journalists I asked them when I talked to them in September please as a professional as professional people try to get the names of those who whose bodies was shown in buter no answer just like we don't have any answer to the question where is the results of medical analysis of Alex naal who died recently uh but who was treated uh in Germany in uh the fall of 2020 when he felt bad uh on a plane over Russia the plane landed uh he was treated by uh the Russian doctors in Siberia then the Germans wanted

to take him we immediately allowed the plane to come they took him inless than 24 hours he was he was in Germany and then the Germans continued to say that we poisoned him uh and we asked them can you and they announced that the analysis confirmed that he was poisoned we asked for the for the test results to be given to us they said no we give it to organization uh on chemical weapons we went to this organization we are members and we said can you show to us because this is our citizen we accused

of having poisoned him they said the Germans told us not to give it to you uh because uh they found nothing in the civilian Hospital uh and the announcement that he was poisoned was was made uh after the he was treated in a military Hospital budare hospital so uh it seems that uh uh this this um secret is not going so how did nval die well he died uh in a serving the term in Russia but he du during as far as it was reported every now and then he felt not not well which was

another reason why we continued to ask the Germans can you show us the results which you found because we did not find what they found and uh what they did to him I don't know what the Germans did to him yeah because they don't they don't explain to anybody including us or maybe they explain to the Americans maybe this is this is credible but they never told us how they treated him what they found uh and what what methods they they were using how how do you think he died I not a doctor but for

anybody to guess even for the doctors to try to guess they need to have information and if the person was taken to Germany to be treated after he had been poisoned the results of then of the tests uh cannot be secret we still cannot we still cannot uh get anything credible on the fate of scripal Sergey scripal and his and his daughter uh the information is not provided to us um he is our citizen she is our citizen uh and we have all the have all the rights and the conventions which the UK is party

to uh to get information why do you think so many threads but why do you think that Boris Johnson former prime minister of the UK would have stopped the peace process in Istanbul on whose behalf was he doing that I met with him couple of times and uh I wouldn't be surprised uh if uh if he was motivated by some immediate desire or by some long-term strategy he is not very predictable but why okay do you think he was acting on behalf of the US government on behalf of the Biden Administration who's doing this independently

I mean on I I don't know I don't know and I wouldn't guess uh the fact that uh the Americans and the Brits are leading in this in this quote unquote uh situation is is obvious uh now it is uh uh becoming also clear that there is a fatigue uh in some capitals and there are talks every now and then that the Americans would like uh to leave it with the Europeans and to concentrate on something more important uh I wouldn't guess we would we would be judging by by specific uh specific steps it's it's

obvious though that Biden Administration would like to leave uh Legacy to the Trump Administration as bad as as they can yes uh and similar to to what Obama did to Trump during his first ter when late December 2016 uh Obama expelled Uh Russian diplomats just very late December uh 120 persons with family members uh did it on purpose demanded them on leave on the day when there was no direct flight from Washington so they had to move to New York York by buses with all their luggage with children and so on and so forth and

uh at the same time Obama announced the arrest of diplomatic property of Russia and uh it is we still never were able to come and see what what is the state of this of this Russian Russian property what what was the property diplomatic they they never allowed us to come and see though under all convention they just say that this these pieces we don't consider as being covered by diplomatic immunity which is a unilateral decision Never substantiated by any International court so you believe the B Administration is doing something similar again to the incoming Trump

administration because because that episode with the expulsion and the seizure of property certainly did not create the uh promising ground for beginning of our relations with the Trump Administration uh so I think they're doing the same but this time president Trump was elected on the explicit promise to bring an end to the war in Ukraine so I mean he said that in um appearance after appearance so given that there is hope for a resolution it sounds like what are the terms to which you'd agree well the terms I basically alluded to them uh when uh

uh President Putin spoke uh in this ministry on the 14th of June uh he once again reiterated that we were ready to negotiate on the basis of the principles which were agreed in Istanbul and rejected by Boris Johnson according to the statement of the head of the Ukrainian delegation uh the keepy principle uh is uh no nonblock status of Ukraine and we would be ready to be part of the group of countries who would provide collective security guarantees to no NATO absolutely no military bases no military military exercises on the Ukrainian soil with participation of

foreign foreign troops and uh this is something which he reiterated but of course he said it was uh April 2022 now some time has passed and uh the realities on the ground would have to be taken into account and accepted the realities on the ground are not only the line of contact but also the changes in the Russian Constitution after referenda was held in uh donet lugansk republics and Heron and zap paria uh regions yes and they are now part of the Russian Federation according to the Constitution and this is a reality and of course

we cannot we cannot uh tolerate a deal which would keep uh the legislation which I quoted prohibiting Russian language Russian media Russian culture um Ukrainian Orthodox church because it is a violation of the obligations of Ukraine under the UN chatter and somebody must be done about it and the fact that the West since this russophobic legisl uh legislative uh offensive started in 2017 since the West was totally silent and it is silent until now uh of course we would have to pay attention to this in a very special way would dropping sanctions against Russia be

a condition uh you know I would I would say um probably many people in Russia would would would like to make it a condition uh but uh the more we live under sanctions the more we understand that it is better to rely on yourself and to develop mechanisms to develop platforms for cooperation with normal uh countries who are not unfriendly to you uh and not and don't mix uh economic interest and policies and especially politics and uh we learned a lot uh after the sanctions started sanctions started under under Obama they continued in very big

way under first term of trump uh and this sanctions under the Biden Administration are absolutely unprecedented but uh what doesn't kill you make makes you stronger you know and well but also just drives they would be never kill us so they are making us stronger and driving Russia East and so the vision that I think s policy makers in Washington had 20 years ago is why not bring Russia into a western block sort of as a balance against the rising East and but it doesn't seem like that do you think that's still possible uh I

don't think so when recently Putin was U uh speaking at uh valai club uh politologists and experts uh he said we would never be back at the situation of early 2022 that's when uh he realized for himself apparently not only he but he he spoke publicly about this that all attempts uh to be on equal uh terms with the West have failed it started uh in uh after the demise of the Soviet Union there was Euphoria we now part of the uh liberal world the Democratic world end of History uh but very soon it was

it became clear to most of the Russians that uh in the 90s we were treated as at best as Junior partner maybe not even as a partner but as a place where where uh the West can organize things like it like it wants uh striking deals with uh oligarchs buying uh resources and assets uh and then probably the Americans decided that Russia is in their pocket Boris yelson Bill Clinton buddies laughing joking uh but even at the end of uh yon's term uh he started to contemplate uh that this was not something uh she wanted

for Russia and I think this was uh very obvious uh when he uh appointed Putin prime minister and then left earlier uh and um blessed Putin as his successor for the elections which were coming and which Putin won uh but [Music] when Putin became president he was very much open to cooperation with the west and he mentions about this quite quite regularly when he speaks uh with interviewers or at some International inter National events uh I was present when uh um he met with George Bush Jr with Obama well after the meeting of NATO in

Bucharest which was accompanied which was followed by NATO Russia meeting Summit meeting in 2008 when they announced that Georgia and Ukraine will be in NATO and then they tried to sell it to we asked why uh there was lunch and Putin asked what was the reason for this good question and they said uh you know this is something which is not obligatory how come well you know to start the process of joining NATO you need a formal invitation and this is a slogan Ukraine and Georgia will be in NATO uh but this slogan you know

became Obsession for some people in first when sakash lost his census and started the war against his own people under the protection of osc mission uh with the Russian peacekeeper on the ground and the fact that he launched this was confirmed by the European Union investigation which they launched and which concluded that he gave the the order to start and uh for ukrainians it took a bit longer and they were cultivating this uh uh pro-western mood um well Preston is not bad basically uh Pro is also not bad what is bad is that you tell

people either or either you go with me or you my enemy what happened before the the coup in Ukraine in 2013 uh the president of Ukraine it was Mr yanukovich uh negotiated with the European Union some Association agreement uh which would nullify tariffs on most of the Ukrainian Goods to the European Union and the other way around and at some point when he was meeting with with Russian counterparts uh we told him you have already Ukraine had was part of the free trade area of the Commonwealth of independent states no tariffs for everybody and we

Russia negotiated uh agreement with u World Trade Organization for some 15 17 years mostly because we bargained with European union and we achieved some protection for many of our sectors agriculture some others and we explained to the ukrainians that uh if you go zero in your trade with European Union we would have to protect our customs border with you with Ukraine otherwise the zero tariff European Goods would flood and would be hurting our Industries which we tried to protect and agreed for some protection then we suggested to the European Union guys Ukraine is our common

neighbor you want to have better trade with Ukraine we want the same Ukraine want to have markets both in Europe and in Russia why don't we see three of us and discuss it like grownups uh the head of the European count commission commission was the Portuguese baroso was his name and he responded you know it's n none of your business what we do with Ukraine we for example we the European Union we don't ask you to discuss with us your trade with China absolutely arrogant answer uh and then the the president of Ukraine yanukovich he

convin his experts and the experts said yes it would be uh not very good if we have uh opened the border with with European Union but the Customs uh border with Russia would be would be closed and they would be checking you know uh what what is coming uh so that the the Russian Market is not is not affected uh and he announced in November 2013 uh that he cannot sign the deal immediately and he asked the European Union to postpone it for next year until next year that was the the trigger for maidan which

was immediately thrown up and uh ended by by by the cool so my my point is that this either or actually the first the first coup took place in 2004 when after second round of Elections the same Mr yanukovich won presidency the West raised hell uh and uh put pressure on the constitutional Court of Ukraine to rule that there must be a third round and the constitution of Ukraine says two rounds and the Constitutional Court under the pressure of the West violated the constitution for the first time then and pro Western uh candidate was was

chosen at that time when all this was taking place and boiling the European leaders were publicly saying Ukrainian people must decide are they with us or with Russia this either or is is still very much very much but it is the way that big countries behave I mean there are certain orbits and now it's bricks versus Nato US versus China and it sounds like you're saying the Russian Chinese Alliance is permanent um well we are neighbors we are neighbors and uh geography is very important and but you're also neighbors with Western Europe when you're part

of it in effect well through Ukraine and the Western Europe wants to come to our borders uh and there were plans that uh you know were discussed almost openly to put British Naval bases on the SE of a of uh Crimea was eyed you know uh dreaming about creating NATO base in Crimea and so on and so forth we want look we we have been very friendly with Finland for example overnight the fins came back to uh early years of preparation for World War II when they were best allies of Hitler uh and all this

all this neutrality all this friendship going to SAA together playing Hy together all this disappeared overnight so maybe this was deep in their hearts and the neutrality was burdening them and nice were burdening for them I don't know they're mad about the winter war huh that's totally possible um can you negotiate with zalinski you've pointed out that he has exceeded his term he's not you know democratically elected president of Ukraine anymore so do you consider him a suitable partner for negotiations um Putin addressed this issue as well many times uh in um September 2022 during

the first year of the Special Operation zalinsky uh in his uh conviction that uh he would be dictating the terms of the situation also to the West he signed a decree prohibiting any negotiations uh with Putin's government and when uh during public events after that episode Putin is asked why Russia is not ready for negotiations he said don't turn it upside down we are ready for negotiations provided it will be based on the uh balance of Interest tomorrow but zilinsky signed this decree prohibiting negotiations and for starters why don't you tell him to cancel it

publicly this will be a signal that he wants negotiations instead zalinski invented his uh peace formula later it was auditioned by Victory plan and they keep saying we know what they what they say when they meet with European Union ambassadors and uh in other formats they say No Deal unless the deal is on our terms and the I I mentioned to you the they are planning now the second Summit uh on the basis of this peace formula and they uh they don't shy away from saying we will invite Russia to PR to to put in

front of it the deal which we agreed already with the west and when uh when our Western colleagues sometimes say nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine uh in effect this implies that anything about Russia without Russia because they they discuss what kind of conditions we must accept by the way recently they uh already uh violate uh tedly the the concept nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine there are passes there are messages uh they know our position we're not playing double game uh what Putin announced is the goal of our operation it's fair it's fully in line with

the United Nations chter first of all the rights language rights minority rights National minority rights religious rights and it's fully in line with osc principle there is an organization for security and cooperation in Europe which is still alive and uh the summit of this organization well several Summits of this organization clearly stated that security must be indivisible that uh nobody should expand his security at the expense of security of others and that most important no organization in Euro Atlantic space shall claim dominance this was last time it was confirmed by o 2010 and NATO was

doing exactly the opposite yeah so we have we have legitimacy you know in our position no NATO on our doorsteps because osc uh you know agreed that this should not be the case if if it hurts us and please restore the rights of Russians um who do you think has been making foreign policy decisions in the United States this's a question in the United States who is making these decision I wouldn't guess I haven't seen Tony blinkin for for years uh two years ago I think at the G20 Summit was it in Rome or somewhere

in the margins in the margins his his assistant I was representing Putin and his assistant came up to me during a meeting and said that Tony wants uh to talk just for 10 minutes I left the room we shook hands uh and he said something about the need to deescalate and so on and so forth I hope he is not going to be angry with me uh since I am disclosing this but we were meeting in front of many people present in the room and uh I said we don't want to escalate you want to

uh inflict strategic defeat upon Russia he said no no no no it is not it is not strategic defeat uh globally it is only in Ukraine you've not spoken to him since no have you spoken to any officials in the B Administration since then I don't want to ruin their career but have you had meaningful conversations no no not at all no I when when you know when I met in in international events one or another person whom I know uh an American I mean yeah some of them say hello some of them exchange few

words but I never impose myself because but nothing meaningful behind the it's becoming contagious you know when they see when somebody uh uh sees an American talking to me or a European talking to me Europeans are running away when they see me during the last G20 meeting it was ridiculous grownup people mature people they behave like like kids so childish unbelievable so you said that when in 2016 in December the final moments of the bid Administration Biden made the relationship between the United States and Russia more difficult Obama rather was vice president exactly I'm so

sorry the Obama Administration left a bunch of bombs basically for the incoming Trump Administration in the last month since the election um you have all sorts of things going on politically in bordering states in this region um that you know in Georgia in belus in Romania and then of course most dramatically in Syria you have turmoil does this seem like part of an effort by the United States to make the resolution more difficult there is nothing new frankly because the US historically uh in foreign policy was motivated by making some trouble and then to see

if they can fish in the mudy water um Iraqi aggression Libyan Adventure ruining the state basically uh fleeing from Afghanistan now trying to get back through the back door uh using the United Nations uh you know to organize some uh event where the US can be present in spite of the fact that they left Afghanistan in very bad shape and uh uh arrested money don't want to to to to give it back um I think this is if you if you analyze the American foreign policy uh steps Adventures most of them is the right word

[Music] um that's that's the the pattern pattern they uh create some uh trouble and then they see how to use it in Georgia the you know in in when uh the osc monitors elections uh when it used to monitor elections in Russia they would always be very negative and on other countries as well Belarus uh Kazakhstan this time in Georgia the the monitoring mission of O present a positive report and it is being ignored so when when uh you need uh endorsement of the procedures uh you do it when you like the results of the

election if you don't like the results of elections you ignore it it's like when the United States and uh other Western countries recognized uh unilateral uh Declaration of Independence of Kosovo they said this is the uh self-determination being implemented when few years later and there was no referendum in kosova unilateral Declaration of Independence uh by the way after that the serbs approached uh inter International court of justice which ruled that uh well normally they are not very specific you know in the in their judgment but they ruled that uh unilateral or rather when part of

a territory declares independence it is not necessarily to be agreed with the central authorities and when few years lated crimeans were holding referenda with invitation of many International observers uh not from International organizations but from parliamentarians in Europe uh in Asia in post Soviet space uh they said no we cannot accept this because this is violation of territorial Integrity right you you know you pick and choose the UN chatter is not a menu you have to respect in in all its entirety so what who's paying the rebels who've taken parts of Aleppo is the Assad

government in danger of falling what is happening exactly in your view in Syria uh well we we we had a deal uh when this crisis started and we are organized the as process uh of uh Russia turkey and Iran uh uh we meet regularly and uh another meeting is being planned before the end of the year or early next year uh to discuss the situation on the ground and uh the uh rules of the game is to help serans to come to terms with each other and uh to prevent separatist Trends uh from from you

know getting strong that's what the Americans are doing in the east of Syria when they uh groom some Kurdish separatists uh using the profits uh from oil and uh grain Sal which they the resources which they occupy this aana format is a useful uh combination of players if you wish uh and um we're very much concerned after this happened with a la Point surroundings I had a conversation with the Turkish minister of Foreign Affairs and with Iranian colleague uh we agreed to try to meet this week uh did you see it coming hopefully in Doha

uh in the margins of this International Conference uh we would like to discuss the need uh to come back to strict implementation of the deals uh on idlip area because idlip uh deescalation Zone was the place from where the uh terrorists moved to to take Aleppo uh and the arrangements reached in 2019 and 2020 uh provided for our Turkish friends uh to control the situation in the idli the escalation Zone and to separate the rasham former NRA from the opposition which is non terrorist and which cooperates with with turkey apparently it is not yet it

is not yet there and another deal was the opening of M5 uh route from Damascus to Alea which is also now taken completely by the terrorist so we as Ministers of Foreign Affairs would discuss the situation hopefully this coming Friday uh and uh the military of all three countries uh and the security people are in contact with the CH but the islamist groups the terrorists you just described who is backing them well uh we have some some uh um information and we would like to discuss with all our partners in this and this Pro process

the uh way uh to cut the channels of of uh financing and arming them the information which is being floated and it's uh in the public in the public domain mentions uh the Americans the Brits among others uh some people say that Israel is interested in in uh uh you know making this uh situation aggravate uh so that Gaza is not under very close scrutiny uh it's a complicated game many many actors are involved and uh uh I hope that the contacts which we are planning for this week uh will help stabilize the situation what

do you think of Donald Trump I met him several times uh when he was meetings with Putin and when he received me twice I think in the Oval Office when I was visiting for bilateral talks uh well I think he's uh uh a very strong person um a person who wants results who doesn't like procrastination on on anything uh and um this is this is my impression he's very uh friendly in uh you know um discussions and but this does not mean that uh that he is PR Russian some people try to present him the

amount of sanctions we received under the Trump Administration was very very very big uh and uh we respect any any uh uh Choice which is made by the people when they vote and we respect the choice of American people uh and we are open as Putin said we are open to uh contacts with we have been open all all all along uh with the current Administration uh and we hope that when Biden When Donald Trump uh is inaugurated we will understand what the ball as Putin said is on this side we never severed our contacts

our ties uh in economy trade on security on anything how and my final question is how sincerely worried are you about an escalation and conflict between Russia and the United States knowing what you do well we started with this question more or less we it seems the central question uh yes and uh the Europeans say that uh it's not they whisper whisper to each other that is it is not for zalinsky to dictate the terms of the deal it's for the US and Russia uh I don't think we should be presenting our relations as uh

you know two guys decide for everybody not at all it is not it is not our style we prefer the manners uh which dominate in bricks in Shanghai cooperation organization uh where the UN chter principle of sovereign equality of states is really embodied the US is not used uh to respect Sovereign equality of States uh the United States uh you know when they say we cannot allow Russia to win on Ukraine because this would undermine our uh rules-based World Order and rules-based World Order is American domination uh now by the way NATO at least under

Biden Administration is eyeing uh the entire Eurasian continent uh Indian Pacific strategies uh uh South China Sea East China Sea is already on NATO agenda NATO is moving infrastructure there Aus building quoted uh indopacific for they call it uh Japan Australia New Zealand South Korea Us South Korea and Japan are building military alliance with some nuclear components so and stoltenberg the former Secretary General of NATO said uh last year after the sum which uh he said your Atlantic security is indivisible from Indo Pacific security when he was asked uh does it mean that you go

beyond territorial defense no no no it doesn't go beyond territorial defense uh but to defend our territory we need to be present there uh this element of preemption is more and more present um but with the United States we uh we don't want war with anybody and as I said nuclear five nuclear States um declared at this at the at the top level uh in uh January 2022 that we don't want confrontation with each other and that we shall respect each other's security interests and concerns and uh it's it also stated that nuclear war is

nuclear war can never be won and therefore nuclear war uh is not possible and the same uh was uh reiterated bilaterally between Russia and the United States Putin Biden when they met in 21 uh in Geneva in June basically they reproduced the statement by r and gorbachov of 1987 I think no nuclear war and this is uh absolutely in our Vital interest and I hope that this is also in vital interest of the United States I say so because some time ago Mr Kirby who is uh White House communications coordinator or whatever uh he was

uh asking uh questions uh answering questions and um about escalation and about possibility of uh nuclear weapons being employed and he said uh oh no no we don't want escalation because then if there is some nuclear element then uh our European allies would suffer so even mentally he excludes that the United States can suffer and this is something which which makes the situation a bit risky it um might if if this mentality prevails then some reckless steps could be taken and this is bad so what I think you're saying is American policy makers imagine there

could be a nuclear exchange that doesn't directly affect the United States and you're saying that's not true that's that's what I said yes no but you know um professionals uh in uh deterrence uh nuclear deterrence policy they know very well that it's a very dangerous game and to speak about limited exchange of nuclear strikes uh is an invitation to disaster which we don't want to happen Mr lro thank you very much thank you