Jocko Podcast 272 w/ Tulsi Gabbard. We Are Stronger Together. America and Aloha.

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Jocko Podcast

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @tulsigabbard @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:05:32 - Tulsi Gabbard 3:43:112 - Final Thoughts 3:59:48 - How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO UNDERGROUND Exclusive Episodes: https://app.redcircle.com/shows/64a89f88-a245-4098-8d8d-496325ec4f74/exclusive-content Jocko Store https://www.jockostore.com/collections/menApparel: Jocko Fuel: https://originmaine.com/nutrition Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 4:58:33 - Closing Gratitude.

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Video Transcript:

This is jocko podcast number 272 with echo charles and me jocko willink good evening echo good evening so when i worked with seal leaders and and then on top of that interacted with leaders from the army and from the marine corps sometimes things went great and sometimes they didn't and if there was a Problem between leaders between leaders between people between troops 99 of the time when i would pull the thread on that problem at the end of that thread would be ego you'd find it all the time i'd find it all the time and when i retired from the navy and i started working with leadership in civilian companies no Shock i found the same thing when when leaders can't get along when when they can't find a solution when they can't even move forward despite having a common goal when i'm working with companies and i pull the thread on that problem i find the same thing i find ego and egotistical leaders scream and they yell and they get emotional and they would rather Lose they would rather lose than admit that they're wrong they would actually rather die in some cases than admit that they're wrong and and if you think that that's an exaggeration history is full of leaders military leaders that died clinging to their plan even in the face of their own death or worse the deaths of their troops all because of their ego now look Of course it's a dichotomy we know that not all ego is bad you need ego to push you and drive you and make you want to win and that's great but over inflated ego is the root of a vast majority of problems that people and leaders face and as i look at the divisiveness in america right now the people that are screaming from the extreme ends of the political Spectrum when i listen to what they're saying and why they're saying it i try and figure out where this is coming from when i pull the thread on all that screaming and all that anger yes once again i find ego because if you if you think you're right about everything if you think that you're right about everything that means everybody else is Wrong and if you think that you know everything then that means no one else can know anything and if your ego is so big and you think you're so smart why would you even have to listen to anybody else because you already have it figured out why not just scream at them to shut up and you gotta watch out especially when if if if someone is saying something That actually makes some kind of sense and it hurt your ego then just scream louder and when i look around and i see people that are screaming and not listening that's what i see i see ego and sometimes it's driven by insecurity insecurity that they think there might be wrong and so then again what do they do they just scream louder don't let anyone else talk shut them up that's what the ego does That being said there are people out there today many of whom are humble people that do listen people that can have an interactive conversational exchange with someone else that might have opposing viewpoints and they're confident enough in themselves to actually listen and discuss and compromise and change their minds and learn and grow and understand and empathize And those types of people well they make good neighbors they make good soldiers they make good friends they make good human beings and they make good leaders and i'm lucky enough to have one of those people here with us tonight a soldier a martial artist a surfer a former congresswoman a hawaiian and an american you might have figured it out tulsi Gabbard tulsi thanks for joining us aloha the last time we were together was on joe rogan's podcast yes that was fun when was that i think that was sometime in 2019 were you running yet i was yeah i was crazy yeah and um yeah it's been a wild ride it's been cool um well it's been cool for me to watch i know it's not always been cool I'm thinking like i don't know if cool is the word i would use it's always cool for me to look at someone that's like trying to make something happen and coming up against all kinds of obstacles and still striving forward and pushing forward so from that perspective it's been cool um so let's let's kind of like um i always like to start from the beginning it's kind of what i like to do so i have a better Context and understanding of where someone ends up because we know more about where they came from yeah so let's talk about where you came from how did you end up here today it started off where american samoa american samoa is where i was born um i am the did you just suddenly correctly [Music] yeah it's i don't It's just a fact right i feel very comfortable speaking i mean obviously i speak all the time but words that i don't know how to say i just do my best and move on and i i will cover books i've got french words and german names and what i just run into total things that i i just don't know how to say them and so what i do is i just do my best and move on and i think i get a Certain level of forgiveness from people completely i do get tightened up from time to time if i really make something awful but yeah i guess you have to forgive me a little bit because i just kind of say what i what it looks like to me phonetically and move on no no judgment whatsoever i however would get in trouble if i am not yeah pronouncing my homeland properly if You say samoa though like samoa samoan that that's more like forgivable right now totally like yeah it's not that's like the proper way that's like you use the proper way yeah but if you don't it's kind of like okay it's it's way more forgivable with someone yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so it's not a major violation not at all it's not it's actually not a Violation right no like really it's not it doesn't like it's literally it's only people from samoa who say is it insulting that i would say samoa yeah that's a good question a little bit no okay so we're good either way yeah you're good either way all right well when i went to guam there was people from samoa there and we hung out most good people nice All right so how do you feel everywhere so um my mom was born in indiana grew up in michigan uh dad born in uh born in samoa um my grandfather was in the air force and so he was born there but he spent the first years of his life in hawaii my grandfather was stationed at hickam and then um you know moved around a few Other places but ended up growing up in the panhandle of florida so so wait so your grandfather was in the in the air force yeah both both of my grandfathers on my mom's side and my dad's side served uh served in the military that must have been around world war ii it was yeah um so my mom's dad served in i believe he served in europe i don't know exactly where And then but but for a shorter stint that he didn't spend a career in the military but my dad's dad did spend his career uh in the military and at different times served i think he was in the army for a little while then he was in the army air corps then he ended up in the air force and um so they both had completely different upbringings uh you know my mom grew up in east grand rapids michigan which was During that time a very kind of well-to-do area in her school there were no there were no non-white people and so you know she grew up she's a cheerleader she was this she kind of had the all-american upbringing so she's a white person too she is a white person holly as we say in hawaii which which you know little digression here people say haole is a derogatory Word but all depends on how you use it yeah it can go it can go either way that's sort of like and it can be it's it can be referred to as an attitude like i don't care what your skin color is it can be used in a derogatory yeah or it can just be like okay you happen to be caucasian and howly but yeah so yes my mom is holly um based on her skin color and uh and yeah my dad polynesian grew up Grew up essentially in the south and um it was so stark their upbringings and and to hear both of them tell stories about it because you know my dad's going to elementary school and he he's told me how like the teacher asked asking all the kids okay where are you from and he raised his hand he's like i'm from samoa and she said what Somalia are you from africa he's like no no no samoa it's you know and that that was it like all the kids started making fun of him he's the only kid with brown skin skin in the class and uh you know would go out go out in town and and and get called get called the n-word get scolded out of you know the men's bathroom and told you gotta go use the colored bathroom Um you know there's no water fountain you gotta go use the hose in the back because the water fountain is for whites only and and so as he was so confused coming from samoa and then hawaii and he's like i mean i'm not i'm not black i'm like he he was it was it was at a young age this kind of being confronted with racism obviously but also just Confusion on his part and that that kind of was the uh made a huge a huge impact in his in his formative years in life and um so fast forward he's going to college in california mom's going to university of michigan they both had summer jobs at yosemite and which is how they met and uh that was you know what year that was that would have been in the 60s and Maybe they know tilt one of our one of our frequent podcast guests john striker meyer who ended up being a green beret sog guy in vietnam before he went in the army he he went out to yosemite and worked there in the summer is he the guy who um has come with some of the vietnamese yes yeah okay that's cool that's cool those are amazing oh my god i love those Hearing from those guys out of this world so they're working so they meet they're so they're working at a cafe in yosemite dad's checking mom out and um asked her out and she's like okay like let's go she's like do you play tennis he's like yeah he didn't play tennis at all she's like okay cool let's go play as their first date so they went out in the tennis court She beat him six love six love for the non-tennis players that means zero he got zero points but i think the key word was actually love i could see where this is going love and what became uh a very healthy competition he he then later on went and became a actual tennis pro um and they've been married now almost i think 53 years and still play tennis almost every day together that's Awesome um but that was how that was how mike and carol gabbard began and uh the first i think one of the yeah i think the first time um he went to visit my mom in michigan after they were they were going out for a little while um and my mom i think actually i think they were going out for a little while and my mom had decided like she wanted to marry this Guy and told my grandma and my dad happened to be in the garage about to walk in the door and started over here this conversation inside the house and um heard my grandmother's response to my mom saying carol but he's not even white how can you marry him and uh dad was a little taken aback and turned around and went back and got in the car and Went went and took a little bit of time um but it was just a reflection of the complete stark differences and where they were from and you know their views of the world and you know obviously they fell in love with my dad and uh um it was uh yeah uh bringing together of two different people two different backgrounds and and ultimately you know My dad took her uh away from the mainland and and to to samoa where they both went as teachers they both got jobs as teachers there my mom was doing um she's a speech therapist so helping kids who had different kind of speech issues and dad became i think the assistant dean of the community college there he was an english major and so they the three there's five kids in our family and the three middle Kids uh were all born there and then we moved to hawaii when i was two years old so hawaii's been home for me ever since did you get to hawaii and i mean you're what's what's it like when you get there what like what are your memories of growing up in hawaii what were your formative memories so was one of my earliest memories so so i'm four of five so my little sister was his baby of the family and She was she was born in hawaii and um she basically she came a little sooner than expected and so my dad delivered her at home quickly and i watched that happen that was that was a big strong dose of reality and you know i'm i'm three years old at the time can you remember it i have i i vaguely remember remember Pretty much i i don't remember like i can't visualize it but i do remember being somewhat traumatized by it yeah well the story goes that like my babysitter who was there also that that after witnessing that um i told her like i never ever want to do that but um yeah so uh we we moved around grew up on the island of oahu what was your parents doing for work there They were teachers um they were teachers there um they had started kind of a small a small private school that we went to and then um and then they ended up the school had to close down for for one reason or another um but then anyway they ended up teaching us we were homeschooled and they ended up teaching us and a bunch of other kind of kids in the Neighborhood at home and then they they're they're entrepreneurs at heart they've always been even back in samoa they were teaching but they had uh mike's ten mike sports shop they had his little sports shop and so they've always had some kind of side gig happening and always different ideas for new businesses and and eventually they opened a kind of Family-style deli restaurant healthy healthy eating so they they've done a lot of different things in their lives and um it's always been uh family family affairs everything that's going on you did you have involvement were you making sandwiches down at the deli i'm the one i get to take credit for coming up with the name of the restaurant it was called The natural deli and we i remember us sitting around the family living room and having a brainstorm session and we're all we are all quite competitive uh and the the deal was whoever get whoever comes up with the name of the restaurant gets one free dinner at the restaurant apparently you're competitive but not a great negotiator exactly completely i had no idea i felt very victorious in My my of my win however had no idea that we would pretty much be eating there every day and so how long were you in this homeschool before it was cool scenario i um all the way through high school really yeah yep and uh it was so there's a five-year gap between me and my closest brother the three boys are about two years apart and then The there's there's there's a story that my dad loves to tell which is that after the three boys my mom was like that's it i'm done um she got her tubes tied she was seriously done it was she wasn't just saying it this is in samoa like way back when where the hospital today is still probably about you know 20 years behind modern medicine so um so i took my dad a few years but he Finally convinced her to to uh have more kids so she went to the hospital in samoa she's like okay gotta undo what i did here and it worked and so my sister and i came along and and that so there's a five-year gap between us and every birthday for me and my sister he's like girls you better thank me you wouldn't be here without me And your mom your mom too but what were you thinking of when you were when you're going to high school what are you thinking of doing with your life um i didn't have i didn't have a specific profession in mind or career path or anything i did understand and realize from a really young age even before high school that um i think i think two big two big things number one was that I was happiest when i was um when i was doing things for other people so you know we go out and we do like beach cleanups and and you know growing up in hawaii's i love the ocean i literally like i learned how to swim at ala moana beach you know in in the in the shore there and and um just just loved our home and and from a really young age had a really Deep appreciation and a kind of a sense of being a protector for our home and so you know we we'd go out and and um you know do beach cleanups and do other things and i just i just felt happiest when i was doing things for others when i when i could be of service and um understood and realized from a young age that that's what i wanted to do And and really in a deeper spiritual way understanding that i was happiest when being of service to god and what better way to be of service to god than to care for and to serve god's children and and this this planet so that was something that i knew in a decision i made very early on but what exactly that would look like how you know what path That would take i had i had no no idea but i also knew and i i distinctly remember i was probably 11 or 12 and i felt this reality that i didn't know how much time i would have in this life and that death was something that could come at any time and i knew that i Wanted to and needed to make the most of my life and the time that i had and understanding how precious that was was there anything that triggered that did you lose a family member did you see a fish die on the beach or something like that or was it just something that came from i mean it came it came from um there was no kind of external trigger um i think it really came from Spending time in prayer and meditation frankly um because i mean this this was something this was something that you know god has been the center of i mean it's the center of my parents marriage and it's not not in a sectarian way at all just understanding hey real religion is love for god and however you choose to worship at home or a church or a temple or A mosque or whatever however you choose to develop that relationship with god that your happiest that is where you can find peace and shelter and happiness and and um that that i think is the foundation that allowed me at a young age to realize that truth and not in a way that like oh my god i'm so scared i'm gonna like i could die tomorrow not Not not in a fear-filled way at all but rather just a sense of understanding the truth um that is not only you know we have no control over when our time will come and uh therefore surrender that surrender to that and surrender to knowing that hey my my life is ultimately in god's hands And also knowing that the death of this physical body does not mean the death of me the soul within the body and therefore understanding that being free from the fear of death but understanding also how precious this this life is and [Music] wanting to do my best to make sure that i didn't Waste waste it well it's amazing you and i can actually even have a conversation as two human beings because if you're talking about when you were 10 or 11 years old and you're thinking about what you were thinking about when you were 10 or 11 years old first of all i did i didn't think i could be killed and that lasted until my mid-30s i think and then on top of that like um you're Talking about serving people and helping people and i more than anything just wanted a machine gun did you so were you you mentioned that that religion was part of your life what what you know what religion did you get obviously that must have come from home because you were homeschooled so it was your parents what sort of religious view did you all have what was it it Was it was the i think the deepest um truest meaning of religion itself which is is that real religion is is love cultivating a loving relation personal loving relationship with god and so the backdrop on that which is um i appreciate so much not having not not understanding kind of what is sectarianism um as as a as a kid growing up at all my mom Grew up in a methodist family my dad grew up in a catholic family um my dad went to seminary for a while he thought he wanted to become a priest and and both in their own ways um ended up coming to a point separately and then later together in um wanting more than they were getting from the religious or spiritual practice that they had that they had grown up with and like for my dad he's told me how um In the seminary when he went you know as a kid he had grown up memorizing a verse i think or a prayer that said something like in order to be happy one must know love and serve god and so as a kid he's thinking okay know love and serve god in order to love like the first step of that is you have to know god how can i know god so that i can love and serve him And he asked one of the the priests at the seminary that question like where can i where and how can i know more about god and um the priest kind of patted him on the head and he said you know this is a mystery my my child this is a mystery and so for my dad who's like well i don't like that doesn't compute how do you how do you love someone if you can't know who they are and so he like even as i Don't know he was a teenager i think at the time and that that kind of planted the seed of that hunger for more knowledge and that more uh you know having the depth of that personal um relationship with god and and ultimately um they both found their ways again through different paths to um looking at you know eastern spiritual practices and Meditation and and found um scriptures and teachings um based in uh the vedic scriptures which come out of india and hinduism but that are also not sectarian like you don't convert into hinduism or you don't convert out of it they're timeless kind of universal spiritual teachings of bhakti yoga something called bhakti yoga And karma yoga bhakti yoga being a spiritual practice in seeking to live your life in in loving service to god and karma yoga if people are familiar with the word karma which really means action and karma yoga meaning um doing your best to take actions that have a positive impact to be of service to others and so those those are the spiritual Practices that that i have in my life um and that i was introduced to from from a really young age so it's not it to answer this is a very long answer to your question but it's not about like it wasn't like we at you know we went to bed my mom would say the lord's prayer and read stories about you know krishna from the bhagavad-gita and you know we'd watch jesus of Nazareth like 1600 times because that was one of the few movies we were allowed to watch as kids growing up and um you know celebrate celebrate um uh celebrations like john lost me which is which is the the celebration of the appearance of krishna in this world over 5000 years ago and celebrate christmas and set up the nativity scene and sing christmas carols and There was never ever any any sense of uh contradiction or having to choose one or the other you know we go to mass with my grandmother when she came to town and go to and and there was no contradiction because frankly when you get right to the heart of it once you get past all the all of the unfortunate um like bureaucracy and divisiveness that that exists too often that create conflict amongst People of different spiritual practices you just get to the heart of it what is it it is about loving god and whether you call god krishna or allah or jehovah god has many names there's one god he has many names and it doesn't matter none of that none of none of the the superficial matters if in your heart you're doing your best to love god And to serve him and so that's that that i'm grateful to have been able to realize myself from from a relatively young age and knew that that is how i wanted to live my life so how did you end up with so so you have this really kind of heavy spiritual background what what where were you grounded to like interacting with other kids who were Jerks and you know it seems like you could be sort of a a little bit sheltered in this world i could be totally wrong but it seems like if that's the way you're raised and all of a sudden you know you go down to the market and someone says you know get out of my way you you know you little brat or whatever how do you what was the what was how did the rest of how did you interact with The rest of the world when you were in this stage of yeah you know we weren't i i we weren't we weren't sheltered or kind of closed off we had a lot of you know there's a lot of kids in the neighborhood and um we we you know oftentimes like my mom was the head cook at the restaurant and so she'd go in at like two in the morning to start cooking we'd go in with my my sister and i'd go with my dad a little later on we do school in the Office with him and then spend the rest of the day like either wiping tables or hanging out with customers and just talking story and and um like that that was a little bit of a second home for us you know did gymnastics did martial arts did did all the things and um you know there was no there was no um i don't know separation or anything like that Yeah no so it sounds like there was balance and oh yeah or you know working at a restaurant that's what i should have put that together because when you're working at a restaurant you got customers you got people people that are happy people that are sad people that are mad people are going to tell you to you know go screw yourself and that your sandwich sucked and people that are like oh this is wonderful You get all those people yeah so you learn a lot about the world and so that's a good that's a good balance very much so very much so so sports you just mentioned kind of like no big deal martial arts gymnastics how into you were how into you were all how into all of that were you very much so um i loved i loved gymnastics until i started to suck cause i got really Like too big and i think i started to grow um and then i i transitioned i was i was definitely more of i you know tried ballet as a little girl too and me and ballet didn't jive so well so uh my sister was definitely more of like the the the the ballerina type and i don't know i just it was not not so much my My flavor so um i i definitely gravitated towards martial arts and earliest did taekwondo and started learning tai chi and um chan and filipino stick fighting arnis and so got got introduced to a lot of different types of martial arts and i was that kid that was told like okay if you want to like toughen yourself up you need to go across the street to the park and kick a tree trunk over and over it's Like sweet awesome i was the kid that and maybe echo can relate i'd never liked wearing shoes and would purposely like we'd go hiking up a mountain and i'd be like shoes shoes are for weak people i need to make my feet tough cause i don't want howly feet so that was that was kind of me growing up and And maybe you know having three older brothers who who had a lot of fun making me and my sister do really stupid uh tortures a strong word but you know we'll call them challenges yeah let's call them challenges challenges that really had no good outcome one way or the other for for us other than being tough yes other than being tough uh have you been To yosemite i have not i forget which hike it was but you know my son was the same way like no shoes ever and we hiked one of the legit hikes at yosemite just a day hike but you know many thousands of feet of altitude and many miles of walking and he did it bare feet barefoot and people were walking by him and they're just disturbed they're looking at me like [Music] it was literally no factor for him yeah i mean a zero factor because the kid would never wear shoes ever so that and you know the kid's got tough feet he can sprint on just gravel yeah you know are your feet still tough probably not as tough just because you know you like have to wear like a suit and Heels and all those things for work that was an adjustment now your feet are weak i know i have work to do where was this by the way what part of oahu did you grow up with so my sister was born in wahiawa and um that's where we lived then but most of my childhood was um in kalihi valley and and then later later was like downtown honolulu so a little diverse little little slice Of each each of the different kind of cultures and communities on oahu what year did you graduate then from high school or graduate from home school that would have been like a 97 i think okay so you get done with high school then what what are you doing um so i had started an environmental knowledge because Spirituality doesn't pay the rent unfortunately so yeah did you work that out i had um so i had started uh co-founded environmental nonprofit uh called healthy hawaii coalition um maybe i was 16 or 17 and i was thinking about i figured out like okay you know we're going and doing beach cleanups on the weekends and every weekend we come back and there's more trash On the beach like how do we start to try to solve a deeper problem and and came up with an idea of of going and talking elementary school kids about like hey guys here's why you shouldn't like throw your soda can in your chip bag on the beach because this is our home this is our playground and here's what happens when you when you do that and and i came up with Like um like a fun little skit called the adventures of water woman and a friend of mine who's an artist came up with like a workbook and a coloring book for for kids and i thought elementary because you know obviously kids are starting to figure things out and um yeah so we we had this this two-day program one day was the skit and the workbook and then the next day We actually took kids out to to like a field trip and like testing water and understanding like okay here's like clean water versus dirty water and why and how it gets contaminated but in a very simple practical way that they could really relate to uh in their lives and so i was the original water woman i had like the blue board shorts and the cape with the big water drop on the back and it was so much pictures there They exist there may even be a video somewhere i don't know but so it was water woman and her nemesis was oily al and uh the skit was really a day in the life of oily al and you know he'd be out there like you know throwing his trash out on the street or changing the oil in his car and then dumping the dirty oil down a storm drain you know dumping a bunch of pesticides In his garden and every step of the way um you know water woman comes in just in the nick of time and saves the day and tells oily owl like if you dump your dirty car oil down the storm drain it's going to kill all the fish in the water and you know when telling the kids when you go surfing the water's going to be really gross and it was just the coolest thing to like see all these kids sitting Cross-legged on the ground like you know first second third graders and seeing kind of like the light bulb go off in their eyes because these were examples that they could understand and and relate to and that was my hope in doing this was that you know it would at least plant a seed for them to understand and appreciate there are Consequences to your actions and um we care very much about our home and so stop and think for a minute before you do something or if you see uncle or auntie like auntie don't throw your trash out the car window and and be able to start to make more of a you know behavioral kind of change and impact um to protect our home Did you get these you know what now was your dad your dad was in politics at some level in hawaii wasn't he he um he and i might the first person our family who ran actually ran for office was my mom she ran for board of education um i think it was in it was in 2000 oh okay so so the water woman that was predated that yeah that's just but that's what inspired me eventually like it got to a point where And and and healthy hawaii coalition still exists today there are other water women's have have come after me um but she's still out there but it got to a point where i i so i started going to community college and with the aim of working in the tv and film industry leeward community college and started the tv and film Production course out there and then was going to transfer to a mainland school to be able to continue continue that kind of education um but a couple of things happen uh my financial aid package fell through and i couldn't afford it to come to the mainland and so and then the other thing was just um there there was a an open uh seat in the state legislature where i lived And i i you know i i started to think about okay um i have an opportunity here to stand on the outside and there were other things you know we they wanted to build a huge landfill over one of our biggest water aquifers in hawaii all of our water comes from groundwater so you know i and a whole bunch of other people we went out and got petitions and we organized and Ultimately thankfully were able to get that that project cancelled but it it got as far as it did because of a politician who is kind of in the pocket of the landfill company and so i started to think you know i can i can stand on the outside and hold a sign or circulate a petition or i can try to put myself in a position of influence And decision making to um directly impact a lot of these environmental issues that i really cared a lot about and that's what led me to uh run for state house in 2002 uh my how old were you i was 21. and my dad that was the first that my dad ran for city council that same year so it was kind of it was kind of fun for us to share he ran for city Council out in waianae and i was running for state house in ewa beach and so our districts like they didn't overlap really but they were adjacent to each other but every morning it was like okay my mom would pack a lunch and um uh send him out and i went out we were sign waving every day and knocking on doors every day for for months but that was that was both of our introduction into running for office At the same time and it was for me it was a totally it was a totally foreign experience because i had no you know formal education in it i was not a part of a debate team had not been trained to public speak in any way at all and on top of all of that total 100 introvert like you know i had my circle of friends growing up but i was i was so shy And i was fine with it because i just hung out with who i wanted to hang out with but anybody outside of that i would not um i wouldn't talk to people i'd make my sister go out and talk to people and i'd read books and do my martial arts and yoga and just do do my thing and so to then put choose to put myself in a position where i'd have to learn how to give Speeches i'd have to figure out how to pick up the phone and call total strangers which was anxiety-inducing in and of itself but not only do that but ask them like hey would you like to donate to my campaign for state house to then go like i never forget the first day i went to go knock on doors like i knew enough about i'd done enough research to know okay if i'm gonna run for this seat i'm gonna run to win And in order to do that i have to convince this many people to vote for me in order to win this race so i had i had the math figured out and i had the voting list people's addresses and names and um literally got on the computer made like this black and white kind of janky brochure saying this is who i am and so i had you know Copies of that that i went and made at the coffee shop and and i sat in my car it's like a aqua colored geo metro two-door geo metro um on old ewa beach road in in waipahu and um it took me about 30 minutes in the car to summon up the courage to go knock on that first door and i was terrified absolutely terrified just thinking of Every scenario that could possibly go wrong but also like what are the first words that need to come out of my mouth and then what if they ask me this question what if i don't know the answer just all of these different things and and you know like one knocked on the first door and like this wonderful old filipino lady answered the door and she's like hey how are you she's wonderfully kind and Offered me a glass of water and like the whole thing's like oh my god okay then went through the whole scenario all over again for the next door a whole scenario like every single door was was a major obstacle uh for me and and ultimately like why put myself through this and and how did i get through it it really just it that groundedness and and The ability to step way outside of anything i was comfortable with came from um that that desire to serve and knowing that ultimately keeping reminding myself ultimately like why do you care so much about yourself this is not about you if you wanted to do something for yourself you would certainly not be doing this you'd be out surfing right now and um and that was that was my Introduction into uh into elected politics so you won did your dad win i won and he won yep and my mom my mom was serving she served one four-year term in the board of education so for two years from 2002 to four um the three of us were all like in serving in different buildings all in the same kind of you know quarter quarter mile quarter square mile Area in honolulu it was it was fun and and obviously you liked it at some level you liked the impact that you were able to have because you carried on with this sort of yeah it is life i never once thought you know when i won that election it was a five-way democratic primary first that i had to get through and then a general election That i got through um i i yes i liked the impact but i never once thought that i want to have a career quote-unquote career in politics i was absolutely not attached to that i thought okay hey this is something i can do now and i'll make the most of it and then you know we'll see we'll see where it goes and i ended up serving Just one term there because of um iraq so when did you when did september 11th happen or what so i was where were you at yeah so i was i was um just starting my my campaign uh to run for the state house when that happened and at what point did you decide you wanted to enlist in the the national guard in hawaii i i knew in some way um when 9 11 happened and obviously we're in hawaii you know we're six hours behind new york on that day so we woke up to turning on the news and it had already happened um and you know i think like like everybody in our country it was it um it deep it's it deeply impacted me in a way that i felt almost right away that i wanted to Do something to to to go after and defeat the terrorists that attacked us then um i just didn't quite know exactly how to do that because i was i had already made a decision to pursue this particular path of being able to serve hawaii and um so eventually eventually i felt that i had learned about the national guard and what it's about and you know serve your State in its time of need but also be ready to stand up and serve your country and and uh decided to enlist in early 2003 because i felt that would be a way that i could accomplish both objectives essentially did you have familiarization with the military because of your grandfather that had spent his whole career in the army and in the air force or were you Really just just through stories um he passed away while i was still relatively young and because they he and my grandmother lived in samoa we didn't get a ton of time together um my dad had had and his high school best friend had tried to enlist to serve in vietnam they had both gone to i guess it would have been meps or some sort of version of it and they both walked in together and went Into different rooms to go through all the medical exams and stuff he wanted to be a medic and when they came out my dad had been rejected for medical reasons it may have been flat feet or something like that and he was he was totally heartbroken but his best friend came out and was enlisted and so ended up going and serving in vietnam but it was something that my Dad always wished that he had um been able to do just to to be able to serve and so um that was prob that was pretty much the most of my personal no no one else in my family my some of my uncles had served but again we're in hawaii so like we don't you know they don't get to see them or hang out with them that much so so you show up to boot do you go to boot camp yeah camp I had i was in the state legislature at the time and so i had to i you know took the asvab and everything the recruiter is like yeah you can you can have whatever job you want just tell me what you want to do and literally made the decision i was like look my session is done on this date and then i gotta be back by this date so find me a basic training and an ait That can fit within these like this five month period i gotta knock it all out at once and so i ended up uh in a um like medical uh operations or something like that because the ait was only seven weeks long i advise like i want to do like uh combat journalism or something like that but you got to go to school for six months or whatever but so i shipped out right after the Legislative session was done i enlisted on the uh actually on the floor of the state house and um went to fort jackson the summer of 2003 um managed to um not get noticed by the drill sergeants for my political job until like week seven of nine which i was pretty happy about and only got found out because um [Music] Uh me and my my assigned battle buddy we were pulling duty at like the battalion headquarters one afternoon uh like watching the door whatever it was and the battalion star major walked in and did what sergeant majors do uh like hey privates how are you and where do you come from and what'd you do before you joined the army and you know that whole conversation and so he talked to my battle buddy First and she told him i think she was from the midwest and she's like yeah so you know i was working at mcdonald's and decided to join the military and this is what i want to do and it's like oh you know that's great it's great and what about you it's like oh yeah i'm from hawaii and um i'm a state representative there and you know this is what i want to do and and he just looked at me he's like wait You said what you do what he's like how come i don't know about this he asked me that how come i don't know about this like i don't i don't know uh i you know the in processing paperwork that says what is your civilian occupation i i wrote it down and turned it in but you know who's your drill sergeant going from hawaii going from like the Kind of cruising mode of hawaii yeah which i know it sounds like there's there's a little bit of well there's there's also like this whole competitive thing with your family and you're obviously we're driven because you're out creating these things and running for office and all this but i mean all of a sudden you're in boot camp was it a shock of course yeah yeah I mean it's i'd be worried if if it wasn't a shock um but i i'm really you know i'm happy that i went in with the perspective of at least just understanding that whatever the madness is there's a purpose to it and don't get i i just i've never i've always been a pretty chill person and i don't get freaked out by that much and um yeah so Yeah i i actually in a very weird and twisted way really loved it it was it was the the camaraderie and the kind of bond that that is built in a very short period of time with a whole bunch of strangers from all over the country knowing that and appreciating that like all of us are there for the same reason all of us are there for the same purpose whatever the motivating decision was to enlist really Didn't matter that um you know we all were the same uniform and all on the same team was it was i loved it how long after you got back from boot camp and ait was it that you went on your first deployment came back home at the end of 2003 from training and then the 29th brigade combat team from the hawaii national guard was activated i want to say um the notification came Out in the summer of 2004. i was campaigning for my re-election at that point in time and um remember going in and and uh taking a break from knocking on doors knocking on doors again and uh i got an email at home checked my email at home and and uh got the notification of the deployment but i was not on the i was not on the Deployment roster because they they already had somebody who filled you know that job in the medical in the field medical company and so i immediately called my commander and just said hey like what's what's the deal here i don't see my name on the roster and he said tulsi congratulations like you get to stay home you don't have to go and Um that bothered me a lot and i i just said no um i i just you know i i knew that there was no way i could stay back and that to you know sit in my office in the state capitol and watch everybody leave was not an option for me and so i i continued the conversation with my my commander and i just said sir um i'm going Tell me what job i need to get trained in that you need filled so that i can go and that's that's that's what happened so i i kind of i publicly withdrew from my reelection campaign it was too late to take my name off the ballot but told everybody like i'm not i'm not running for reelection um volunteered uh to fill this position and we left restarted our active duty train Up uh i think it was in august of of that year of 2004 and then we were in country in early january 2005. what job did you get trained for what job what bill it did you it was medical logistics um so supply um which and you're a specialist at this point yeah i was an e4 that's kind of a fresh e4 and as as you know like okay i felt i filled the position but once we actually Got there i ended up becoming i ended up filling a position that was previously held by an e7 as the brigade surgeon operations person and so kind of was working you know like line of duty paperwork and injuries and um tracking supplies for all of our medics and docs and pas who were uh attached to all of like the infantry units and And and also uh every day just tracking um going through going through the the report every day for our brigade commander of looking name by name down this list of casualties that had occurred in the previous 24 hours to see if there was anyone there from our nearly 3 000 person brigade and make sure that they were getting taken care of whether In country to stay in country or getting them evacuated and staying with them and tracking their care every step of the way until eventually they made their way home where were you actually stationed in iraq we were in uh balad in lsa anaconda most of us were there that was kind of the base and then we had units in camp victory in baghdad and then a couple other kind of smaller Fobs out in different areas and so i moved around i moved around a little bit kind of going out and visiting some of our units and checking in on them um where they you know where they were but that was that was primarily where i spent most of the time and how did you what was that deployment like from you know your perspective now looking Back what kind of lessons did you bring back what did you learn from that from that deployment to iraq a lot yeah i i came back and my family told me this after i don't think i fully realized how much i had changed but it was something that they immediately noticed in um in in coming back just more sober and More focused uh and that that really came from you know i talked a little bit about how realizing from a young age like death can come at any moment well that's that's a philosophical realization and being there that became very real very quickly um and you know there there was have you been there did you ever pass through there when i went to balad i'd be there for like 20 minutes and go to a meeting and leave so i barely remember anything about did you come in like vehicle or bird yeah so there was there was within the first couple of days of of us arriving there it's a big camp massive and so you know i kind of was going out and like okay orienting myself where's everything at and i noticed right away at at the north Gate of that camp at least at that time i don't know if it's still there but there was a big there's a big huge sign that someone had put up on you know that you would see every time you leave camp out through the north gate which is where most of our patrols um use that gate that the sign read is today the day and i just remember being stopped in my Tracks and just taking a minute to to to take that in and the meaning of it so that none of us would ever forget that today could be the day and um that that was the welcome message and it really it it hit home so much um in in that daily task that i had of of actually seeing names of people who i never knew People in different parts of who were serving different parts of the country but also people who i did know whose names would pop up on that list every single day that i went through and recognizing again how precious life is and any any any day any moment um you know that that could be your last and then of course we we had unfortunately you know we lost we lost a lot of people during that Deployment and um to me it it really it changed everything for me because ultimately coming home i knew there was absolutely no way that i could just go back to the life that i had left behind as though i didn't just experience like the people like oh you're going to go back and run for your seat in the state legislature you're Going to pick this up and kind of like hit the play button on my life that had been paused and it was impossible i didn't even think about it because i knew that somehow this experience that i had had i wanted i wanted to do something um positive with it uh in in being able to impact the kinds of decisions that took us all to that war in the first Place so then so then what was the next move when you get home it's two is it now two thousand 2000 yeah so we were in country for a year and uh then you know had the demobilization when we came back and uh so it was 2006 and i was trying to figure out okay what what am i going to do there was no obvious answer to the question that i was asking which Was how can i you know how can i take this and turn it into something positive ultimately i ended up volunteering our one of our us senators from hawaii at that time um senator akaka was being challenged in a primary election which kind of unheard of um you know the the power of incumbency is is very real plus he's like the kindest most aloha Guy you will ever ever meet in your entire life no one has a bad thing to say about him but he got this challenge that came out of nowhere and i didn't know him at all personally i had no personal relationship whatsoever the guy challenging him um i did have some some interaction with um that was not positive and so i was i was like okay i'm gonna go volunteer full-time for Senator akaka make sure that that um that he wins his re-election uh and he did and he i don't know if he was already or i think he was after the re-election he became the chairman of the u.s senate committee for veterans affairs and so after volunteering on the campaign as chief of staff said hey do you want to come and work in washington and as a legislative aide and help him With that work on the committee and and you know environment and energy natural resource few other areas and so that's what i did um i ended up going and working with him in washington for a couple years went through ocs while i was there and how did you get an ocs billet did you graduate college somewhere along the way good question i forgot about that part i was working i i was i was um While in iraq working on my degree going on the education center tent and you know like okay sometimes you got mortars coming in and the alarm sounds you got to go in the bunker and come back out and say i was i was continuing my education while i was there and i had gotten just enough credits you needed 60 credits to go to ocs and i had just enough credits to go and i was still working on my degree When i was in dc and i was you know working there and so i was kind of working full-time and doing school at night um but yeah slid in slid in uh and then got i think you needed 90 credits to get your commission or something like that you still had to keep squeaking them out so yeah so i just uh i barely squeaked by and then um so you go to ocs is it anything anything shocking about ocs Anything that was i loved i i knew obviously ocs is to train leaders but i didn't know going in um the depth of that and that was why that was why i wanted to go through ocs when i graduated from basic training i was like i want to be the sergeant major of the army one day all about it and then you know i got a deployment under my belt and got to witness Some some examples of of great leadership also some examples of leaders that were lacking in a lot of areas and and especially in a deployed setting in a dangerous way and um that was that that made a major impact for me coming back to say okay you know i same thing like i can complain about having shitty leaders or i can actually go and try to be Be a good leader of soldiers and and i love and i tell kids who come and ask me like hey i think i want to join the military become an officer very biased yes you can go do the west point thing and that's great i highly highly highly recommend ocs because it is it is intense it is relatively short and it is just like it is it is the essentials Of providing it provides you with the essential tools to to begin your leadership uh path and i just i loved it so much that i ended up going back as a tax officer after i had gotten a deployment as a platoon leader under my belt and then i loved it even more how long is this how long is army rcs so there's the active duty army ocs at fort benning which is i think Three maybe between three and four months i went through an accelerated national guard ocs in alabama at fort mcclellan that uses the same program of instruction as the as the fort benning program but just condenses it down to i think it was maybe 10 weeks and like you know the difference is like they they get weekends off at fort benning like they get to use computers And phones and like that and we got none of that it was it was seven days a week you know four a.m to midnight um all up orders like no access to technology whatsoever so everything you were doing it was like you're writing it you're writing your your six page op order yourself and um you know it sucked as you're going through it of course but you know i i'm old enough now i'm Approaching 18 years now in in the army reserves and uh so i'm like one of those old people who's like man you guys got it so good now back in the day back in the day um you uh so then you go on another deployment and this time you go to kuwait yeah you're in kuwait that time yeah yeah we were um it was a different it was a different mission for the brigade and kind of each Of the battalions were tasked out in a lot of different areas a lot of our our infantry battalions or cav battalions were doing convoy security from within kuwait in and out of iraq um my platoon was attached to a field artillery battalion and we were we i i'm so grateful for this but we were we were physically located very very far away from the flagpole Um and then the big bases that exist in kuwait so we were within an active kuwaiti naval base and right on the water which you know that's my gig i gotta be close to the water if i can um but our our main mission um the artillery battalion had kind of a force protection mission but my platoon uh we had had two things one was kind of security um Like like high level security if we had vips coming into kuwait or and we worked with the embassy a lot we did a lot of stuff in and around the embassy so like psd like personal security um you know we did security for a lot of the the ammunition movements from the ports to where they had to go uh and then also um we did i had a training mission which was the which was the the fun one for me it was being able to go and train the the Kuwaiti army on you know marksmanship um basic you know how to clear a building uh what do you do if you're dealing with uh like a civil disturbance or a riot right tactical tulsa teaching the wrong appearances hell yeah it was it was it was interesting for me though because um you know i platoon leader for a military police platoon In kuwait where i didn't realize until we got there they don't allow women on their bases at all it doesn't matter if you're the general's wife or you're a janitor there are no women what if you're tulsi gabbard tulsi gabbard showed up and i really didn't know when we rolled up like that first day to go in and meet the unit and meet the unit commander obviously i'm in uniform and my hair is Up i got you know a big ball of hair on the back of my head and i didn't know what they were going to do at the gate did you have other females in your platoon i had i had um two two females in my platoon there were um one was an e3 and one was an e4 the rest were you know these are guys who are working state local or federal law enforcement mostly At home in their civilian jobs and just about all of them had uh at least one or two deployments under their belt and so they're they're seasoned experienced guys um but yeah so i showed up i showed up on day one and you know kind of showed my id card at the gate and the gate guard was didn't really know what to do but he saw you know he saw the american flag and he was like Well okay go ahead and and so uh my i was my partner in this was a master sergeant at e8 and um super super cool easy going guy and and so we went and we started to uh we got introduced to the the guys that we'd be training we ended up doing a number of iterations of different groups of guys but um you know kind of went down the line shaking hands and saying hello and uh There was probably half of the kuwaiti guys who i was invisible there certainly was no shaking of hands certainly no eye contact or even acknowledgement that i was standing there and you know okay got it challenge how do you go from like i don't exist in your universe to actually being able to help provide you with some instruction and and develop the rapport Necessary to be able to do that and um you know so i i kind of drawing from maybe the aloha in hawaii of just recognizing hey you know we're we're different people different backgrounds different language different culture different everything but i respect like i respect you and um i'm going to treat you with that aloha that respect and um Gradually i started to see the ice kind of started to thaw and ultimately you know when we're out on the range and i'm walking up and i'm telling them like hey like okay here's this like basic safety things and and then like okay i'm gonna show you how to do it and then you know um gradually it got to the point i knew i knew i had made progress we sat down for lunch and they started To share their lunch with me is all like food food is food is the ultimate you know bridge builder and i knew once you were like hey like yeah here try my food like oh yeah oh awesome like cool yeah that's really good and it got to the point where um on on their graduation day of that first group their commander had everybody in the room everybody seated their getting there getting all the graduation certificates and Everything and their commander asked me to come forward and presented me with this uh plaque of appreciation and thanks and uh some of there were some american civilians who were also working that um that mission and and they had been there longer than we had and they said tell us afterwards they're like tulsi i hope you understand what a big deal that was for this kuwaiti military officer Um you know the traditional bearded muslim man to recognize the accomplishments of a woman and i i was very grateful to have been able to experience experience that in recognizing the bigger significance that you know not so much about like well this is about women's rights or empowerment but more so about how to overcome seemingly impossible barriers to get to a place Where you have mutual professional respect and understanding uh and and the power of that alone and there are obvious parallels that we could point to in today's world here in america but yeah yeah i know it's that's a that's an awesome story and lately i've been talking a lot about the fact that if you want respect you got to give respect if you want people to listen to you you got to listen to them If you want to have influence over people you've got to allow them to influence you and if you want to build trust with people you got to trust them yes and i it's interesting um you know you kind of captured well at least for sure the respect part is aloha right it's the aloha spirit of hey you know what you're a little bit different than me but it's all good we'll figure it out And that way of building relationships is so much better than you saying hey look i might be a woman you might not think i'm here but i am a second lieutenant in the united states army and you will like okay good luck with that you never would have made any progress at all none and and so taking a little a little bit of aloha apparently with a little lunch as well goes a long way Over time yeah and and people want to be confrontational because it seems like well it's the least offensive thing to your ego right when when someone looks at you or doesn't look at you treats you like you're not there that's that can be a blow to your ego that your ego can't can't repress it it just has to come out your ego has to say You will look at me damn it you know i am tulsi listen to me you have to listen and all those things even though it seems like it would be you know this direct i just need to be direct with them and tell them that i and it's like okay i'm telling you that that attitude doesn't work and look we're talking about a pretty serious cultural divide yeah but it Happens with everything it happens if you and i are trying to figure out how to execute a mission and you think we should do it one way and i think we should do it a different way and i tell you well tulsi that's because you don't you haven't done this kind of operation before or because you you haven't been in as long as me or because you don't you you went to ocs and i went to west point so therefore i know but all those things are wrong all those Things are going to make it harder for us to come to a good an actual good the best possible decision which is what we want so putting your ego in check add a little aloha to that and and we can actually make some progress and unfortunately you know it's kind of like what i started off talking about you know if you have an idea about something i have an idea about something and my my default mode Is to say you're freaking wrong how are we going to have how are we going to talk about it how are we going to actually figure out what to do no you stay on your side and i'll stay on my side and we won't do anything which is a freaking nightmare yeah and that's where that's where i see um the parallel in that experience with the aloha that that i strived to bring Every day to my work in washington is you start with you know finding that common ground even with such incredible stark differences that that are real you start with okay what what is what is the common ground that we can stand on comfortably together coupled with what is our shared objective what is the thing that we are trying to accomplish and recognizing that Whatever your personal feelings may be however strong they may be what your views are ultimately if you can find some commonality in both those places then you recognize that it's not about you it's about this shared goal and purpose that you have and then like you'll find a way you'll figure it out again this is another thing i've been talking a lot About lately is if you and i can get aligned we we can come to a solution but we sometimes have to go pretty high up the ladder of alignment to get to a point where it actually meets so we have a mission and you want to attack the target from the left and i want to attack the target from the right well that's that's okay as long as we both know that we want to secure that target that's what we want to do And then all one of us has to do is put our ego in check for 15 seconds and say you know what kelsey attacking from the right sounds good let's do it your way right because i i just want to get to i just want to get the target secured that's what i want to do that's that's okay where we also get into a problem is agendas now you have an agenda where you want your platoon to do it and i want my platoon to do it So then we have to rise above those agendas now it's possible that our agendas that your agenda's still aligned with the goal you want to get the target secured great you want your platoon to do it you know what if i can put my ego in check for 15 seconds and say you know what sounds good tulsi once you take your your platoon can take lead and i'll support you right Sounds good all i want to do is get the mission done exactly and people run around in circles and attack each other and worst part they never make progress they never make it to the target because they can't even they can't even come to any kind of agreement yeah that that's that that sounds exactly like one of the first things i was introduced to as a new member of Congress where i the message was delivered very clearly from the leadership um within the within the democratic party and and some of my republicans went through some of the same stuff on their side so this isn't about one party or another but the message being like hey look this is about winning the election and if we're in power it's about keeping power if If we are not in power it's about how how do we get it back and so if there's a bill for example that deals with whatever let's say it deals with transportation something about as universally agreed upon as you can get like we need to move from a to b all of us do so there's a bill on transportation infrastructure and it's introduced by a republican You don't support that bill you you should support one that could be virtually identical as long as there's a democrat name at the top that's leading that effort because that will allow the democrat person and the democratic party that to then take credit for it which will then be put on a brochure or a tv ad that you can use in the next campaign which will get us closer to Getting power or or uh maintaining power and this is where we want run into problems in the world yeah is when ultimately we're not aligned that's where the actual problem comes in is if you where you want to go the target that you want to hit is not the same as the target that i want to hit and then we can't we can't overcome these problems because we are not going to the same place they Don't they don't they're not the same place so how are we going to go we can't be two places at once we either go to your place or my place and that's where we run into a problem when people are saying well the main point of us doing this is to get power not to help american people not to move transportation in a good direction but just so we get reelected And if that's what the goal is we can't get aligned and it's a problem and that is exactly where the lack of alignment exists because you have a political infrastructure where both political parties are ultimately and this is not every single person but if you look at the goals of the leadership of both parties it is about power so right you know i i served in congress for eight years um for the first uh like half of my time There republicans were in charge democrats were in the minority and then democrats won and took over the house democrats are in charge republicans and minority and you just see it play out where whoever's in power is trying to keep power whoever is not is trying to is trying to take it and there's no alignment because they're looking out for their own interests for the parties and they are Not ultimately making decisions about what legislation comes to the house floor or what issues are being tackled based on what's in the best interest of the country which is where that alignment must be and and it's how our system of governance was set up that not that you have everybody as part of one party or marching in lockstep or having all of The same views but instead that you bring the diversity of different views experiences and backgrounds and ideas by having in the house of representatives 435 people from all across the country all elected by constituents in their districts who can then bring their ideas where you have debate and conversation you have bills that that theoretically go through committee where you can offer amendments and try to Strengthen whatever the proposal might be or kill it if it's a bad idea and then you've got to vote on the floor like this is civics 101 that we learn about in school it does not exist in reality though today because instead of figuring out hey how do we work out our differences and come to that same goal of like how do we fix all of the potholes in our roads in Hawaii and all over the country okay we need to invest in some infrastructure how do we do that how much money how is this best going to be executed instead and we saw this play out over you know i remember when trump first got elected i reporters asked me what what do you think tulsi is the one thing like what's the low-hanging fruit where there where bipartisan um Agreement and work is possible i and most other people said infrastructure every community needs it every um this is a domestic job creator that actually solves real problems that need to be solved it never happened there was no infrastructure bill that even really came before congress for any serious consideration and why is that like the most low-hanging fruit that everybody agrees On that objective didn't happen because of partisan differences and an unwillingness to say okay yeah democrats had a certain idea and a certain dollar amount republicans had a different idea and a different dollar amount but there was never any real good faith serious effort to say okay where can we meet in the middle what am i willing to give up what are you willing to give up So that we can actually start to deliver on fulfilling the needs the very real needs that exist within our communities so i know you said not everyone is so entrenched but what percentage of people are entrenched on the left and the right i would say most i would say most and and not because they're bad people necessarily but If you look at the system that exists the power that the political parties have is massive and uh unfortunately there are too few people who go to washington willing to uh buck that power and deal with the consequences of that and the consequences being hey if you don't if you don't toe the party line then If you've got a tough challenge in your re-election campaign we're not going to help fund tv ads for you for example or we're not going to deploy resources to support you or we'll pull you off the committee that that you're on that you you really like or maybe we're not going to consider your bill on we won't allow your bill to come to the floor for a vote and sometimes these are Very direct statements that are made and sometimes they're they're signals that are sent in an indirect way and um so the result of having too few people who are willing to kind of stand up and and make decisions based on purely based on on merit versus the political pressures is you end up having a lot of people who either enjoy and get right into playing the political games um And are all about it and then you have other people who maybe unwillingly or or even as they are disheartened but feel like they have no other option than to play the game and so it you know uh and and frankly it's because they see they see people like me uh you know president obama was present during you know i came i was sworn into congress in 2013 so his first four years and then i had President trump as president for the last four years that i was in congress and in both cases you know if there was an issue that i agreed on whether it's obama or trump i spoke out and said it if there's an issue i disagreed on obama or trump i spoke out and said it which is which is is is kind of heresy in washington because the expectation is Even if it's the same exact scenario the same exact situation if it's your person in the white house and you don't like it you don't say anything but if it's the other party then i mean the world is gonna end look at this terrible thing and it's such a blatant double standard and so hypocritical i think this is one of the reason why voters are just like come on like we can see what you're doing so Ridiculous exactly but you know they exist within this bubble where the the it's i mean it is it's i've talked about this before it's kind of like high school there is a popularity contest and it's both people it it's this ecosystem where people really care a whole lot about what parties they're invited to or who answers Answers their phone calls um i'm just going to point this out because i've heard you talk about this before you're not saying like oh it's like high school where people care about what parties they're invited to you're saying people actually are thinking well tulsi didn't invite me to that party so we're gonna step on her bill that she put forth i'll give you an example very it is it is literal it's not like you Know it's not an analogy it's it's literal there there was you know in the in the pre-coveted world and maybe even in the pre-trump world um the white house correspondents dinner is like the big event of the year and it is hosted by the media for the media and you only get invited as a politician if someone in the media invites you to go as as your guest it's kind of like washington Dc's um oscars kind of gala type situation so you know it's all of the fancies everything and hollywood celebrities fly in for it and it's it's like a it's a really big thing and um i i remember you know i i happened to get an invitation to go the first year i was there without knowing anything about what it was and i was talking to some of my Colleagues they're like tulsi you got an in like i've like this guy my friend he's like i've been here seven years and i've never been invited to that like hook a brother up kind of thing and it was so i mean it was so surreal to me especially because having gone from that where i was invited to go to that or other things you know like the first few years i was there and then um You know uh i stopped getting those invitations because like hold on a second she's actually like challenging whatever the narrative is or challenging decisions made within her own party or saying or doing things that didn't fall within the mainstream of popularity in washington dc and uh so i've i've experienced the arc of Like okay you're cool you seem kind of cool and like you know you're a surfer you're a veteran you're this you're that and then all of a sudden like oh wait hold on you actually have something to say that's not just whatever literally the email talking points are of the day then you know it turns into something else let's uh let's let's rewind it a little bit to When you actually ran so you get home from in in what 2009 you get home in 2009 um i came back from my second deployment in 2009 and kind of faced a similar um pivotal decision point on on what to do next and just like the first deployment i came back with this same kind of sense of purpose and mission of wanting to find a way to be in a position where i Could um i could help influence decisions or make decisions about our country's foreign policy and about our military and um but didn't know exactly what or how i would do that i didn't there was no obvious choice at that time i had applied for something called the white house fellows program uh which i thought would have been a great opportunity Where basically it's it's a highly competitive you heard of it before yeah so it's this highly competitive program that ultimately if selected you serve for a year as a senior special assistant to a cabinet member or to the president or the vice president um so you kind of you know jumping your way up to directly being able to help influence and impact Issues so i had applied for that got through to the regional finals and then got through to the final final interviews which was i think three days of um assessment essentially which consisted of you know we're told okay as soon as literally as soon as you arrive there you're being assessed by the judges i think there were 12 judges and ultimately they would Choose probably 12 people out of maybe i think maybe they're 20 of us there and so whether it was the the welcoming reception uh or these actual boards essentially that you would go individually and sit before there's you know i think four different um boards of three judges and you know do a q a kind of thing and and then there was something that um they gave us an exercise Where all of us who were there we had to pull names or positions out of a hat and so i think the position i got was white house chief of staff someone else was the president someone else was the vice president and then they say okay here's the scenario i don't remember exactly like country x has just launched an attack on us and um you have you you've convened a meeting in the situation room Uh execute like you've got 15 minutes to prepare and then you go and execute and so role playing scenario kind of war gaming thing and um and the judges are just standing there watching and just trying to figure out okay what are the dynamics and you know who are the alphas and who's taking charge and who's just like the wallflower sitting on the edge and how do you make decisions thought process That kind of stuff it was a really cool experience long story short i didn't get picked why don't you think you got picked um i don't know i really don't know i i sought out a couple of the judges that i had developed a little bit of a rapport with to kind of get some feedback and and this was part of the thing like every step of the way people who were former white house fellows who had given Me some mentorship on how to approach the process in advance and and some of the judges like uh they're like oh you're shooting like you were exactly the kind of person that this program was built for and um and so i um stupidly had started to believe all of that and uh you know went through it and was careful and did my preparation and went into it But you know in my mind i had already told myself like you got this like you're in and then so when i was i was writing the metro in dc and i remember getting off at union station and coming up the escalator and then my phone buzzed with a voicemail of course i was waiting for the call and uh the voicemail said hi tulsi we regret to inform you And so for that moment i was just like i i was i was incredibly disappointed obviously um but then had to reset be like okay so like that's off the table um and so i ended up i ended up uh you know i knew that i i was continuing to see what what can i do and i ended up running for uh and getting elected to the honolulu city council and focusing on those potholes and you know trash and sewers and parks and Law enforcement um for two years until my former boss senator akaka retired from the u.s senator announced he was retiring and the uh one of the members of congress said that she was going to run for his seat which left a vacancy in the house and ultimately that's that's where i made the decision um i made the decision to run knowing That specifically in the united states congress i would be exactly where i needed to be to try to influence and impact those decisions was it a tough campaign i mean it's incredibly tough who who you're going against there were six people who ran you know it's strong democratic state so the real election is the primary election And there were six people who were running in that democratic primary but the main person who was kind of the assumed winner of the election even you know nine months out from the election was a guy who had just run for and lost a race for governor but who is also the former mayor of oahu the city and county of honolulu and so you know just for some Perspective our state has about 1.4 million population around 980 000 of which live on oahu and the district that that we were running for um there's there's two members of congress from hawaii one is kind of the urban representative that that has almost the whole south shore of oahu the urban that kind of densely urban populated area and then the other member of congress which was the seat that i was running For has um the west side north shore and east side of oahu and all of the neighbor islands and so i came into this uh with i think it was about two percent known name recognition in that district because my city council district was actually in the other um it was in the urban part of oahu so there was again no overlap in those districts And the guy you know the front runner in the race he had everybody in the state knew who he was he also had a little bit of baggage um that came with having just been the mayor and uh that's a whole other whole other conversation but uh so so the the challenge was was pretty great to go from like three like three percent against 100 and somehow i had to try to cover that Gap um and i just you know i remember meeting with with some some of the the political um you know elders for lack of a better word in hawaii and letting them know that people i had decent relationships with letting him know that i was going to run and and why and getting a lot of patronizing responses back Saying you know tulsi you're i think i was 30 at the time 31 you're young you have no chance against this guy so just you know don't waste your time and come back and try again in like 20 years you'll be great in 20 years and i was like i don't operate on that timeline so you were like holding my beer pretty much pretty much did you just go Super aggressive how did how the hell did you make up that kind of distance well so first i i had to um fundraising is a huge thing because i needed to be able to have the resources to let people know i existed and who i am first of all just my name period and then to let them know you know my experience and my background and why why i was wanting to serve them in Congress and so you know we started out we started out just like putting signs up around the district and hoping that that would cause for people to say who's tulsi gabbard like what is this about and um and and it was it was a lot of time going and doing what what i called the most extensive job interview ever where i went traveled to each Island and spent a lot of time in communities with individuals with groups small groups large groups introducing myself to them and answering their questions and letting them know why i wanted to serve them in congress what kind of leadership i would bring where i stood on on different issues that they cared about and um ultimately what happened was Five months before election day my i i was pulling at 20 to the front runners 65 and then the rest was split between the other people and i was like awesome progress exactly and i just i i just continued you know i was i was on the phone and i was asking people for support and raising money and then also out on the road just you know seven days A week all day and uh it was it was it was an incredible incredible experience election day comes around uh in august of 2012. and all the way up until about two weeks before the election the local media and even some of the national coverage was just like this guy's this guy's got it i had heard from other people he was already Interviewing staff a few months before the election that he planned to hire once he won um our debate we had one big televised debate we had a few others but there was one big televised debate i passed him in the hall right before the debate and he was singing that song um black eyed peas i think tonight's gonna be A good night as he looked back at me and and i will i will um i have been told i killed it in the debate and that was where a lot of people first started to take notice like who is she and um i think i think it may have caught him by surprise just a little bit but still like all the way up until about two weeks before it was like he's got it and then some of the polls started to shift and some of the local News they were like hold wait this can't be right these polls can't be right because you can't see a big turn around i ended up winning the primary election going from that 20 five months before to actually beating him by a 22 margin on election day and it was it was uh people people in dc like the next day they're like okay Like what scandal caused him to to allow you to win essentially or what was the thing that you know that happened and it was it was there was none it was literally um i think the difference between someone who felt they were entitled to the position because of a number of reasons and and me recognizing what the position really is it's a position of trust and Responsibility that is is granted to you by the voters in the state and they are the ones who i'm accountable to and who i work for and um it was just it was it was a it was a our local kind of walter cronkite anchor of our news station who's been doing it forever longer than i've probably for about 30 or 40 years he's still on tv now he's a vietnam veteran And that election night he was reporting the results and he actually started to get choked up and and got a little got a little tearful because he understood why i was running bringing that experience of service and having been deployed and the significance of that i was going to congress not for myself but that i was bringing my brothers and sisters in uniform with me Uh and and um it was it was it was a heavy night i mean it was you know there were parties and things going on but um i remember leaving the the hall that night on election night and my sister was walking out with me and she's like tulsi you know you're allowed to celebrate you know you're allowed to be happy about this but i was just i was immediately like Okay all right these are the results what are we waking up and doing tomorrow what's the next task what do we have to do now in order to make sure that we we hit our next mark and that's um and and that's kind of the the focus that i that i carried with me throughout is you know i'm not entitled to anything and i am here only because the people in my community in my home state Have trusted me to to work for them and to to be their voice and and um to represent them to the best of my ability so the the hype of you winning that and come being the being the underdog champ rolling into d did that that kind of came to you to dc right i mean that that hype there's some hype train yeah from tulsi hype train i like saying that so the tulsi hype train shows up and You're sort of um you're viewed i think it's actually nancy pelosi called you like a rising star which is you seem to hear that okay it's not like it doesn't get thrown around that term doesn't get thrown around about political people but you were like a quote rising star in the democratic party so you came with some hype Yeah i didn't i didn't fully understand why but yeah it was there i mean i had you know she i was actually making up drill time with the national guard after that primary election um i remember being at my unit and she called my my cell phone i hadn't talked to her before and she called my cell phone and left a message and Introduced herself and just said hey you know we have a democratic convention coming up in a few weeks i would love to have you come and be one of the featured speakers during prime time as um and speak about veterans let me know if you're interested and so again like that's not an opportunity that one gets when you've just been Elected to congress to go and speak to i don't know 50 000 people in an arena in the whole country yes the whole it's everybody yeah and uh and so you know i mean i i was grateful for the opportunity and and went and um it kind of yeah and then you know shortly after getting sworn in as a member of congress i was asked hey will You be vice chair of the dnc and like what what does a vice chair do um what is what is actually that you're asking me to do and and what what can i do in that sense that's what they're asking you to do it's freaking weird right this is all they they kind of saw you they saw a good horse to put money into and invest into a great story and they they wanted to get some control over that hype train Yeah and i think use you know be able to say hey you know there are i mean there are biographical boxes that i checked a lot of boxes for you know the diversity uh pick the diversity higher and and you know for me i'm i'm you know just coming into each of these experiences com completely clear-eyed and not getting googly-eyed at all like oh my god they love me so much But just recognizing okay like what do you what are you trying to use me for even uh what do you get out of this and then for me thinking okay like weighing pros and cons and saying is this an opportunity that i can use to try to get some some good done and if it is then okay that makes sense like maybe there's a mutually beneficial thing here and if there's not then you know no Thanks um but yeah that's that's that's where that's where things started so they started off like really awesome yeah hey you've got all this hype you've got opportunities they're looking at you as a as a potential kind of horse to put money into and invest into as long as we can control you on the track right That's the fine print at what point did you did when was the first sort of uh time that you kind of bucked a little bit do you remember what it was yeah absolutely it was my first year in congress in 20 summer of 2013. um every year in congress and i i don't know i think this may date back to pre-air conditioning days but every year in august congress goes Into recess it's the hottest year of the month it's you know dc is a literal actual like geographical swamp and um so you go you go back to your you so you go back to your district everybody in the house and the senate there's a recess in august you go back to your district and you get like four or five weeks at home or to go and do a congressional delegation trip to another country or Whatever you set that space and time to do that and so i remember being home and getting word that president obama wanted to go and launch airstrikes and a military attack in syria and um i was filling up gas in my car one i i so i started to get a lot of calls from constituents from people about this and this is where this is Very quickly developing i don't have all the facts or information or intelligence or anything at that point but um people were concerned and i was filling up i was filling up gas one day um in kapolei and and a woman who pulled up her car next to me she saw me there and she came and walked over and she grabbed my arm she's like tulsi you know my kids in the military Please don't do this because i don't understand what it's for and and there was a number of other kinds of messages coming from people just either expressing total opposition or concern and just coming out of like you know iraq and just every everything that had led to that kind of cynicism and fatigue or okay well you want to go start another war in another country Like what what did they do to us and so the recess time was cut short i was on the foreign affairs committee at that time and i was throughout most of the time i was in congress and so we got called back to dc early so that we could go through and get the intelligence briefings and actually get gather the information and that was when i first started to take kind of a Deep dive into what was happening in syria and why he was proposing this and ultimately after going into the issue and the question and and really he was not going to come to congress at first but then uh enough members of congress said you can't like the constitution does not allow you to unilaterally just start a war You have to come and get congressional approval for that um and so that's we went back and started to prepare for that that vote that would happen and i just i came to the conclusion after studying the facts that it would be a counterproductive military action and much of it came from and we had hearings with secretary then secretary of state kerry and others at the time Who were trying to tell congress like well you know this is not going to be a pin prick strike but it's not going to be a decapitation it's going to be a punch in the gut and you know some of my follow-up questions were like okay so you're going to go and deliver a punch in the gut attack how will they respond oh you know we don't really know but we don't think it'll be a big deal okay Who are their friends who are they gonna call for help and how may they respond how could this potentially escalate into something that is no longer a punch in the gut but something that first second third fourth order of effects their response will require response from us which require a response and all of you know the the tit for tat that then begins once you go over and Say i'm not going to cut your head off i'm just going to punch you in the gut and think that you're not going to do anything in response and i just saw so many of the similarities of a lack of foresight and strategic planning and for me again as military officer basic level like military decision making process and actually thinking through these Things and i saw similarity like this could very easily become another kind of iraq kind of situation where you start making these decisions and then they're on the fly and then you're not realizing or thinking through what do we do tomorrow and then the next day and and where do we go from here and oh so i uh i wrote i wrote like uh an opinion piece Expressing my opposition to the president president obama's proposal um published it and um was the first democrat to do so to express opposition to his proposal and very quickly got a call from the white house basically saying how dare you who in the white house it was the the first lady's chief of staff and i i still to this day scratch my head About why they asked her i knew her and maybe that was just simply the reason why but i would think that on a matter like this you would want to have i don't know maybe a national security director secretary like i don't know somebody but that was that was essentially the messages how dare you no not only as a democrat but because like you're from the president's home State how could you how could you so publicly disagree with him on something oh that's right you guys should have been hawaiians but the thing was jaco is is nowhere in that conversation was the substance of the issue raised like hey here's why we think your opposition is misplaced or here's what you're not seeing or here's what nothing yeah nothing at all you know I wrote down while you were talking what's the commander's intent like what are we trying to do here because if you can't tell me what it is why we're going to do what we're doing then we need to talk about it more yeah that that's number one and you know as you just put it the reason why why are we doing something why are we doing it and by the way i tell people all the time if you work for me And we're doing something that you don't know why we're doing it you raise your hand and you say hey jacqueline why the hell are we doing this and i say well here's why and you say well that doesn't make any sense and i go please explain that to me then so that i can make a better decision because if if i can't get my team on board then i must be i must not be seeing something or i'm Not explaining my perspective well enough that they can go oh yeah got it jocko thank you and we now understand that thank you that's number one number two so when you fire off this article is that a good tactical move for you in other words you know would it may may it have been a better move to say hey listen i need to talk to you know you tell your friend the the first lady's chief of staff listen I want some clarification i don't want to get crazy here but look i just got back from iraq a few years ago it gets bad it gets ugly we got to make sure we know what we're doing can can we have a further conversation because i no one seems to be listening to me right now and it's a problem i chose to take that public course of action because i had just gone through Days of internal discussions q a expressions of concern and ex essentially expressed all of those same points of opposition internally to members of the administration and saw that nothing was nothing was breaking through and that the answers that they were delivering were pretty canned And set and that there was not real there was not really an interest of a discussion or a response like of introspection saying hey maybe we're missing something here and or maybe we're not communicating clearly or you know it was just like this is it this is what we're doing and the why like why what are you trying to accomplish well we need to send a message Okay send a message and then what like you can like communication's a two-way street i can send you a message but if if i want that message to be effective like i need to anticipate how you might respond and so there was i i chose the course of action that i chose purely because i felt i had exhausted um internal or maybe kind of back channel means of addressing those concerns it seems like what did You also sort of had already done an assessment to think like these people don't listen yeah this wasn't this wasn't just one day you decided you know what that's it i'm gonna fire off this article it's a pre-existing condition that is when people say hey i got an issue with this we get told shut up get get on board with the program that's what we're gonna do so you had already Experienced that yeah so i mean this this in this specific situation it was not so there were other democrats who who shared these and republicans who shared these concerns um and that were raising these questions within the hearings both both public and and closed um hearings so it wasn't like hey we expect everybody to Like there was not a pressure coming from the democratic leadership in this example saying hey we expect you to toe the line on this and just support this because it's president obama so this was not that kind of situation there are other examples of that but yeah it just it was clear it was clear that the message that was coming from the administration was was really Um it was kind of a one-way communication and and so i knew enough to know that when when they they're kind of locked and loaded in in their position the only thing that may cause them to change or to budge is public pressure and that's ultimately what happened it it the public pressure was bipartisan and and and reached such a volume that they never even brought the vote to Congress because they knew it would be an abject failure and and the the the military action never happened and obama got criticized for that because i don't know if you remember but he this was like this was a red line right like okay and he got vastly criticized by republicans and i think some democrats like how How dare you not enforce your own red line um and i still you know i think this was one of um ultimately the final decision that he made i it was the right decision because because of all the reasons that i felt it was the wrong decision to to make in the first place but also it forced him to take a diplomatic path to resolve the issue that he was trying to address um which is you know hey like maybe that Should have been your first first primary course of action yeah don't paint yourself into a corner yeah exactly just like don't don't put yourself in a situation in a combat scenario where you can't maneuver don't do that don't don't put your you know don't don't put your back against a cliff where you can't go anywhere else yes don't don't do that it's not a good move it's not a good tactical move it's Not a good strategic move there's you know this this whole thing when i when i ask you these questions one of the things that well you're gonna i know i know you just told me you were reading about face right now well the crux of about spoiler alert in about face he ends up at the end of the vietnam war well it's not the end of vietnam war it's the end of his vietnam war he goes And gets interviewed and says we're gonna lose if we don't change the way we're fighting and of course he gets drummed out of the army in a matter of months you know it's all bad and the question that i always kind of consider is well if he would have kept his mouth shut he would have had you know he would have had a brigade he would have had a division he would have Had the influence of all many many more soldiers and much more strategy and and could have perhaps steered the war in a better direction if he would have played the game more now there's an emotional component to it which is completely understandable which is that hackworth absolutely loved the army and he loved his soldiers and he was seeing soldiers get killed And wounded every single day and he got to a point where he it wasn't unacceptable to him we had a similar thing you know that you and i were talking about with general mattis and at what point you know if general mattis who's so highly respected and just smart and and and resolute in his beliefs and and kind of unflappable so it was really Nice when he got appointed i was so happy i'm like okay we got some sanity going on here we got somebody that's that's rational right very rational guy and it's at one point it's over and then you wonder okay hey look i know it sucked and i know you didn't like it but don't you have more influence when you're sitting in the seat that's that's that's a an issue that people Leaders have to deal with on all different levels you know i talk about a lot in leadership strategy and tactics not a lot but i write a section about it yeah if you're my boss and you tell me hey jocko i want you to do this mission here and i say well i don't think it's a good mission and i think you know it's going to cause casualties or i don't think it's got a good strategic objective or And you say i jocko you do what i told you and i say but hey you know ma'am it doesn't seem like a good plan to me and you say hey jaco shut up and do it now i can either draw a line in this hand and say i'm not going to do it and then what do you do you fire me you put echo in charge and echo goes it goes and does it because he's just a yes man so now but i've given up all my Influence at that point which is not good there's a scene in band of brothers dick winters who gets ordered to do a reconnaissance it's the end of the war and he goes i don't really think that's a good idea the colonel says shut up and do it he goes okay he goes and does it they get a guy killed they come back the next night the the colonel says i want you to do Another recon tomorrow night and dick winter says i don't think that's a good idea the war is almost over we lost a guy yesterday and he goes shut up and do it and he says roger that sir and they go to a basement and they drink wine what'd you see on the recon we didn't see anything okay good you know he he went along with it but he still had some control and this is just a hard thing and it's It's interesting to hear your perspective of you know at some point you make a stand and that's where you decided to make a stand and obviously you lose some influence after you did that you lost some you know i don't know how many invites you got to those dinners after you did that it's probably not a high number so you give up some influence but at the Same time you're you're you're holding the line on what you believe in yeah and at some point you've got to do that i mean at some point you go look tulsi i don't care you want me to do this mission it's a bad idea we shouldn't do it and if you got to fire me fire me yeah and maybe that's me just trying to send you a message maybe you say oh geez jocko's really Serious i must really have a bad i must really have a bad perspective of what i'm trying to get this guy to do because he's never said no to me and now he's saying no to me all right jocko tell me your reasons again and now we can have a conversation tough tough those are tough things for leaders to do yeah and that then they're if if you i would say this is especially true in politics but i think It's probably applicable across the board is if you know what you are trying to accomplish ultimately what's the greater goal and your goal is not about self-preservation if your goal is not selfishly motivated but instead um you know how how can i serve this this greater purpose that you're obviously there to do then um you're able to more Unemotionally and clearly assess okay here i've got three different options here here's where this one leads here's where that one leads here's where that one leads and assess okay you know what what really ultimately what is going to help me get help help get me closer to that thing that i'm trying to accomplish and um i've i've gone through many many iterations of this as i've made Different decisions that had very serious political consequences and that um especially the big ones were were very often the unpopular decision that people were kind of scratched their head like what what is wrong with her like she's she's she's going and doing things that nobody does she's going and saying things that nobody will say is she crazy or just stupid or what um but if you take a step back you know Really uh who am i accountable to and what is my purpose if my purpose is to be a part of the um to seek the approval of of the elite in washington then i would have made completely different decisions completely from the from the get-go uh and i would have done very different things but if my accountability is to end it is and and has been to the people who Elected me to serve if my accountability is to our brothers and sisters in uniform both those who continue to serve those who have laid down the uniform and those who have paid the ultimate price then i'm making my decisions through a different lens in a different context than folks are used to in washington and it's not to say like hey i'm just going gangbusters and i'm Going to go run through a freaking brick wall no matter what the consequence and it it is being clear-eyed about okay here here are the here are the potential ramifications to this and sometimes they are known and sometimes they are an unknown factor but ultimately these major decision points that i have come across um do the right thing if you don't if you don't know and you're not sure and all of these like Ultimately do the right thing because it's the right thing and even even as you may get you know um the you know the political fire or the the negative consequences or these other things like ultimately whether it takes a little time or it takes a long time doing the right thing is always the right thing and i'm you know i'm i'm [Music] Able to know that wherever my path goes i've done my best to make that best decision when faced with hard right easy wrong the i used to tell my guys if you're doing the right things for the right reasons you we will win in the end exactly so if we're doing the right things for the right reasons we'll win in the end now what's interesting about this is You know you on certain occasions to some extent you didn't play the game right and as you just said you know you played the game sometimes and you did what you had to do and formed those relationships and then sometimes you didn't play the game and this is what's interesting and that this is where the future's unknown where does that lead if you were doing the right things for the right reasons which you were Ultimately you'll win in the long run we don't know what that looks like yet right at some point i know it's like a big gamble right because we could paint an entire entirely different picture of tulsi that went to washington played the game said the right things vote the right votes nodded the head and you'd be in a different spot than you are right now you'd be you could potentially i mean From your trajectory when you look at you in 2012 is that when you showed up 2012 when you showed up in 2012 your trajectory was steep and like you said you checked various boxes that needed to be checked and if you would have played the game that whole time you could be in a position you know you could be president right now you could be president right now Having conformed to what you were being told to do now we don't know where this actually ends up right because it's it's 2020. we don't know where this ends up maybe people will be listening to this in 2039 or whatever and they'll be going oh yeah jocko called it jocko called it you did the right thing for the right reason to look at how it turned out That could potentially happen but of course you know a bunch of other things happen too but it's it's something that we have to struggle with as leaders doing if but if i still believe this and i tell people this all the time if you're doing the right things for the right reasons you're going to win in the end in the end you are going to win it might take Years it might take i guess it could take decades when you're talking about this these types of decisions but the other component of this is which i think in my just just from sitting here looking at you as you're talking about this you every day have to look yourself in the mirror yep and at a certain point you say i'm not going to do that and again Look there's i always tell people play the long tank play the long game think strategic i i tell people i would say when people ask me oh i got some situation at work and my boss told me to do this all the time i'd give the i give you the advice play the game oh tulsi wants me to do this paperwork and she's been yelling at me to do it and it doesn't make any sense for me to do this paperwork i tell that's that's Awesome yeah do the paperwork play the game build a good relationship with tulsi so you can actually talk to her in the future and explain why that paperwork doesn't make sense right play the game until you get to a point where you got to look at yourself in the mirror and you can't and then you're not doing the right thing and you're not doing it for the Right reasons and you got to make a different decision yeah yeah i um that that's exactly right and in order to do that it's being able to have not lost your foundation and your groundedness so that you have the ability to be introspective and to know what actually matters versus the things that that don't really matter Which help you determine you know which battles am i going to pick to fight and also um what is what it what is winning how do you define winning is it is it a specific title or is it a specific position or when you say do the right things for the right reasons and at some point in time sooner or later you're gonna win for me in my case that that's that is a Hundred percent true i think what um maybe is not obvious to people is winning is not becoming president united states winning is not becoming a united states senator or a member of congress or an ambassador or whatever pick pick the job pick the crappy job [Laughter] you have a different perspective than most people in washington who live their Lives from college to try to strategically plan their lives to get these jobs yeah except for the fact that you know winning you know look if you're the president you have a massive you have the most amount of influence that you could possibly have i used to tell that to these young seal officers it's like oh you're going to kiss ass to get Promoted well if you kiss ass quote to get promoted guess what you can take better care of your troops which is why you're here right that's why we're here to take care of our team be able to accomplish the mission so sometimes it's like oh those are those are aligned winning when i'm a platoon commander instead of a e5 and a platoon i have more influence over that situation so i can do a better Job of the mission i can do a better job attacking the enemy and i can do a better job of taking care of the guys that work for me that's all good and you know what i had to sit through some meetings and i had to nod my head and i had to support my whatever commanding officer or my master chief when they told me to do something that didn't make quite make sense but i did it why not so i could get promoted that's The big difference not so i could get promoted and i never did it was as you know for me it was such a it made my career so much easier because i never was worried about getting promoted i never cared if i got promoted and it actually helped it helped because i was doing the right things for the right reasons and my bosses would look at me and say like yeah this guy cares about the guys and He wants to get the mission done let's get him promoted yeah i wasn't doing it to get promoted it's just gonna happen if you're doing the right things for the right reasons so there's a weird dichotomy there no winning isn't necessarily getting promoted or becoming the president or whatever the case may be but if you're looking to have the most amount of influence that take care of your people and your troops and your Country and your nation that's a really good spot to be in and that that the order of that i think is the most important thing because too often in politics people get so attached to the position or the title and their right their entire identity is wrapped around that whether they have it or it is their ambition to achieve that position or title that they forget that the real goal is being in a position of impact and Influence where you can serve and make that positive impact and that's where for me even from when i ran for state house through the different political positions that i've had like i had no issue and no qualms about walking away from what was beginning what was the beginning of some would say would be an illustrious political career as A 21 year old elected of the state house when it came for that decision point are you going to stay are you going to go i went because i wasn't losing anything and like people oh you're gonna give up this political career you've only just begun i'm not giving up anything i am only choosing at this point to serve in a different way and i think that's when we look at when i've thought about okay well You know winning winning is being in that position of impact and influence and and maybe at some point it does take that form of you know serving an elected office in a high position where i can execute on that or maybe it takes a different form or a different shape you know for the time being or for whatever it is it's staying it that the order of that staying focused okay This is the goal and the position and the platform that i may have at a different point in time to accomplish that goal doesn't change the goal did you underestimate the power of the swamp maybe a little bit but i think even yeah i would say yeah i mean the the power of the political infrastructure and the Party system and how much money uh in you know there are limits like if i'm well if when i ran for president ran for congress there are limits like if you wanted to make a political contribution to me you know the limit changes every election but let's say it's two thousand dollars that's all you can give there's no there's no real limit to what you can give to either political party So if you wanted to write a two million dollar check you could do that no problem and so if you look at the the balance of power that gives the political parties a heck of a lot of power to to leverage um over a specific candidate or specific incumbent and to use as using the power plays that are used so that that was something that That um i came into and i think was was unexpected so just to clarify this i can give two thousand dollars to tulsi for congress right but i can give two million dollars to the democratic next 200 million or whatever yep and therefore the party has that money yes and now they can dole it out to the people that are playing involved with the program that are playing the Game yep and it's a little surprising to you it was a little surprising yeah that how much control they had and and seeing it play out literally on the house floor when votes or votes are happening or what is it about to happen it's like hey where is this member of congress i heard he or she is thinking of voting with republicans We need to find him and talk to them and uh get them in line and they say and there are actual jobs like i don't have you seen house of cards yeah you're fine don't don't worry about it but but it's featured in this show house of cards the the um the main character he kind of starts out he's a member of congress and he is uh the whip and The position is literally called the whip and um that's their job is they whip votes and so if somebody's so i go to you and i say hey tulsi i know you're kind of wavering on this vote but it looks like you got a tough race coming up there in hawaii could use some extra tv advertisement don't you think yeah it's like that like for real that's it that's how it is yeah Kind of or that's how it works um it takes different sometimes it can be very direct like that uh i i th this is so this is something that that um i have not personally directly been the target of because they knew partially because i i got elected without any help from the democratic party locally or nationally um there was no fundraising help there Was no hey we're gonna push you know it was a primary election and generally they don't get involved in primary elections it's not it's not a rule that's always followed but in my case it was and because it's such a strong democratic state generally they'll use their resources to help democrats get elected or re-elected in swing districts or republican districts If they're like ah tulsi you're good like we don't have to worry about you in my case then that also means there's no leverage from them uh but i have friends who i've served with who are in those positions where you know a re-election in a congressional race like they've got to raise 10 million 20 million bucks which is You know in my race i think i raised i raised about i don't know a little over a million dollars um so for them there is a lot of leverage and it's used it's certainly used to to try to get you as a member of congress to do what the what is best for the party rather than what you believe is the right thing to do based on your conscience and based on how you feel you can best serve Yeah what's the percentage that they're able to wield that sledgehammer effectively like how much control i mean it's it's it's pervasive and so that that's one example is hey you've got you you're always you've got a tough re-election or a tough race or a tough challenge or whatever that's one approach and the other Approach is people who are interested in climbing the the ladder and so you will either have a cherry opportunity placed before you or maybe you won't have that opportunity presented or it'll be taken away so you know it's kind of like you know they'll look at okay what does this person want and what do they need and how can we use that as a motivator to try to get them to do Uh what we want them to do and so this is the imbalance that needs to be corrected in our political system where this idea of hey anybody can go and run for congress and i know that my member of congress is always going to go and act in my best interest as a voter has unfortunately become so twisted into this thing that is about one party versus the other party and it's always about the next election And how they can battle and who is gonna win rather than how do we work together and actually solve problems and pass meaningful legislation and i you know i again early on you know there were there were some republicans um obamacare right hugely divisive issue politically that's been weaponized by both sides issue of health care and there were some republic we found like Hey here are some easy fixes this was this was uh when i was elected in 2012 obamacare was passed in 2010. and so i you know there were some democrats and republicans we started to say hey let's figure out what we can do together like we're this is we're here in congress this is why we are here and there were some easy um uh kind of very simple common sense Corrections that we could make uh it through legislation to this bill that are no brainers like not not controversial at all common sense no-brainers exactly okay sounds good good set up i like it and have that work out it turns out that both party leadership um indirectly expressed opposition to this idea and what we were talking about doing on the democratic side Because it would require that they would have to admit that the bill had some flaws that needed fixing and on the republican side opposed to it because if you fix obamacare then what do you run against what do you criticize the other side for if you actually fix it in a way that it it helps people and if people start to like it Then you can't raise money off of it and you can't weaponize it for political purposes and that's that that was 2013. and unfortunately here we are in 2021 and it has only progressively escalated and gotten far worse far divisive to the point where as we sit here today you have the speaker of the house nancy pelosi referring to republicans as quote unquote the enemy within The enemy within and the implications of that like the actual legitimate implications of that were as when you make that statement that you do not trust people from the opposing party broadly she's not saying hey this one person i feel is a threat to our security and needs to be reported to law enforcement that's a different story if that if that were the case We have systems within our government to do that if you think a member of congress poses a security threat to their colleagues report it to law enforcement do it but to throw this out in a public setting i think it wasn't a press conference she said that that they are the enemy within uh and other democrats saying i don't feel safe around my republican Colleagues what you're saying is that if any member and any democrat goes and tries to have a conversation with or reach out to or work with a republican they are working with the enemy they are collaborating with the enemy they are now traitors to who i mean to the country to democrats where does that then lead and how is there Any possibility of healing and unifying and reaching out to get past the inflammatory divisive state that we're in okay so we got that going for us it seems like uh well i i didn't track every move that you made but certainly one of the uh if not at least from what i know the biggest kind of move that you made that was outside the system is when you Went against hillary in 2016 for for president is that is that was that the straw that broke the camera it was a big one that was a big one um yeah and that was one of those that was one of those big decision points that i had um where i couldn't i couldn't map out what the actual consequences to that decision would be so you knew i knew what Happened i i knew no i i knew i obviously knew it was it was a serious decision that would have serious implications but exactly what those implications would be i i didn't i didn't know um i had different political advisors and people who you know who knew washington and who knew me giving me very serious warning and just saying look tulsi this could be the end of the Political road for you potentially so just know that before you make this decision and and just just to back up a little bit why the back story that led to my making that decision was i was still vice chair of the dnc at that point and as an officer of the dnc the rules say you have to be neutral in a primary election that the dnc's role is to make sure that the primary election process Is um executed in a fair in a fair way so that voters have the opportunity to make their decision on who they would like to be the democratic nominee to become the president united states and so that was my like okay i'm going to make sure that i fulfill that responsibility and make sure that our democratic process works in uh in this primary and i had no plans to get involved In the race at all and there were you know there were a number of you know this wasn't the reason why i ultimately made the decision but there were a number of issues that started to um present themselves in seeing that the chair of the dnc at that time was making unilateral decisions about how the primary process would work that made it very clear that it would not be fair Or neutral and that those the process decisions that were being made would favor hillary clinton over any other candidate and i and other officers of the dnc expressed privately and then our concerns in opposition a to the fact that like hey like we're officer the dnc you're asking us to attach our names to decision that you as the chair made but we had absolutely no discussion or input To it whatsoever and i'm not comfortable doing that and then when seeing there was no it was kind of like okay no like i don't care i don't care the decision's been made and that's it and then airing some of those concerns publicly for the purpose of trying to bring some accountability and transparency to the process and just two just two two examples one was um Limiting the initial decision that that the chairman made or the chairwoman made was there would only be six debates in the primary election and to me that was ridiculous like there had never been so few debates um ever and why why that number of debates mattered was because of the second decision that was made which was if any candidate participated in a non-dnc sanctioned Debate or forum they would be banned from participating in any future dnc debate so you'd be punished for actually seeking out opportunities to talk to voters um both of those decisions seemed pretty undemocratic to me while we're standing here saying hey we want we want high voter turnout we want people to engage in the process we want people to engage with the candidates But we're only going to allow six debates and if they do any debate or forum that's not one of our six then they won't be able to come and play with us at all because hillary had such good name recognition every one of these debates would be an opportunity for someone else to get more name recognition yeah and challenge her track record i mean actually god forbid have a real Dialogue in conversation and a compare and contrast for voters on each of you know i mean obviously bernie sanders and hillary clinton were kind of the two primary candidates but there were a few others who were still running at that time martin o'malley was when he was the governor of maryland and and um so so that that was kind of already happening but ultimately as as this process um started to To begin i saw how even in these limited debate settings how little attention was being focused by the democratic party as well as their their corporate media partners on foreign policy and on the the qualifications that voters may look for in a commander-in-chief and what that responsibility meant um it was just not it was you know they were talking about a bunch of other Things most most things that to me like superficial political drama and theater like not issues that really mattered a whole lot when you look at the implications on people's everyday lives but as a soldier obviously for me like this is the most well it's not just as a soldier the most important responsibility that that any president has is to serve as Commander in chief you know our constitution very clear like i can have all the economic positions i want in positions on education and positions on health care as president i can't do anything of great impact without working with congress and that's i mean that that's the it's the check and balance that our our founders had in mind for us which is a good thing But there's only one commander in chief and it ultimately drove me to resign as by share of the dnc and and endorse bernie sanders over hillary clinton because i saw a huge um gap and difference contrast between the two of them and in hillary clinton's uh very interventionist kind of war hawk warmonger track record Uh both as secretary of state and and as u.s senator versus bernie sanders who through his time in service had proven to have more of a non-interventionist leaning and be a little bit more critical in questioning of any rush to war and i you know on a whole host of other issues i i didn't uh you know bring i agree or disagree on a number of other issues but this was the singular issue that i made My decision on to to resign as vice chair of the dnc and endorse bernie sanders so that i would have a platform to start to push to be a voice to push this question and to challenge the media and to bring to voters here's the differences between the two major candidates in this primary you get to decide what kind of commander-in-chief you want and so um that was You know i i announced that decision on um sunday show meet the press uh there in washington went to the studio um didn't tell them really what i was there to announce it was you know i i intentionally kept this to myself very very close hold knowing how incestuous the relationships are between politicians and the media and attempts to try to Um undermine my ability to deliver my message for myself and so there are probably like two people in my life who knew what i was going to do i went live television sunday morning shared my decision and why and then you know my phone started ringing off the hook literally i'm in the car rolling away from the studio but but the most stark response i got was um And they ranged from like tulsi that was a brave uh and righteous decision to like yeah exactly and that's what it was that was sunday and then i think it was either monday or tuesday we had votes and went back into session in congress and and um both democrats and republican colleagues of mine were kind of coming up and patting me on the back saying that like nice knowing you um have a good afterlife and Even even some democrats who who had um like endorsed obama over hillary in 2008 early like from the beginning and who shared like hey like i i made that decision and i was on the clinton [ __ ] list for years before i was able to dig myself out of it and tulsi don't you know that she's going to win and you're going to be on the list and That there is a list and what that means in a practical way is you don't get your bill signed into law you don't get funding for the things that you need or that your constituents need in your district and that your efforts the reason why you are here and the efforts that you are putting forward will be will be blocked and so you're rendering Yourself ineffective because she will be president and um that was that was the washington response basically you're politically dead um you you knew that though right yeah i took it to that level i i knew i wasn't working i was like i chuckled as people told me this i was there was nothing there was nothing that i heard the morning after that did that surprised me i knew that the Race you kind of feel like a badass when you walked into congress on monday did you kind of i don't i'm not not badass or did you feel like no neither neither i i was i was um i was amused at like the hushed air for real yeah for real for real no joke and like the sideways glance is like is it okay to go and talk to her now or not and like i don't want to be you know like thought to be i don't know part of Whatever she's doing like i don't know like there's all these different things and how about the fact that now like whoever told you hey now all the things you're going to try to do are going to get squashed you're not going to be able to make any progress here that's a real thing and so again going back to this strategic decision making if you're trying to take care of your Constituents and you make the worst enemy that you can have in dc that's not good well what what i what ended up happening obviously is she did not win the election and some of those very same people who remain good friends of mine who were being honest with me then saying you're politically finished then came back to me later and said well turns out you saw something That nobody else saw at that time so you know kudos to you for standing up for your principles and what you believe in and listening to both your heart but also recognizing where people in the country are rather than listening to the echo chamber within washington and yeah so it so at that point you got a little clout back Yeah yeah but it's all it's all not i have the beholder really i mean there there are there's unquestionable that a lot of the the challenges that i that i faced as i was running for president um can be traced back to that original sin and just how how deep you know yeah there there were certainly ramifications but also um it was i mean i had the opportunity to to Raise the issues that i ran for congress to raise and to bring them to the forefront and to get conversations starting about you know the issues of war and peace and and when do when is it right to send our troops into battle and and um what questions should we be asking as leaders in this country before we make that decision and recognize like i'm not a pacifist i'm Not a peacenik i i care and have dedicated my adult life to that that service to protecting our national security the safety of the american people i am just pushing to make sure that we have leaders in this country who recognize the seriousness of of of life and death of war and peace and when War may be actually necessary and warranted and knowing that our troops have volunteered to go knowing that that may mean a sacrificing of their own lives and all of the sacrifices that our loved ones and families make and don't think twice about it that's what we sign up for to serve our country but also knowing that sometimes the Tougher decision to make is to not go to war the harder decision may be recognizing that even as there may be a problem that that we want to solve in the world that sometimes it it requires more strength and courage to recognize a it's a problem we can't solve b it trying to do so would not serve our national security interests or the interests of Of the american people and therefore recognizing that the right answer may be to to not do anything so so really that's the other part of the strategic move is strategically it's going to make you harder and it's going to make your job harder in some respects after you execute this move on on hillary but at the same time it's going to bring these important issues to light so Strategically there's at an advantage and a disadvantage yes and you weighed them out and said you know what if i don't bring these subjects to light no one is going to do it i could not i could not i was not okay with sitting on the sidelines and watch this every presidential election is important there's not a single one every every Election this is the most important election of our lifetimes every single one is important and i could not live with myself if i had chosen to sit on the sidelines and let this whole thing play out without doing my very best to insert these most important questions and issues and contrasting of records into the dialogue and conversation so that voters would have the ability to Make the best informed decision possible so then you decide you're going to run when is that that's what when do you figure that out when do you figure out when do you say to yourself you know what i need to run for president the the event that triggered um the event that ultimately led to my making that decision Was the happened in january of 2018 and it was i'm sure you remember this echo but it was when on a saturday morning we got a text alert sent out to every cell phone in the state civil defense alarms sounding saying missile incoming to hawaii seek immediate shelter this is not a drill and the aftermath of that where immediately we're thinking like i've been working The issue related to north korea for a very long time for obvious reasons that north korea is continuing to develop their nuclear capabilities they're developing their intercontinental ballistic missile range capabilities miniaturized nuclear warheads that that not only could reach hawaii but could reach a significant portion of the mainland at that time in 2018 now they have continued to develop that and They can reach anywhere in the country but this is the scenario that's playing out get this message like north korea's is sending uh you know a nuclear missile to us which means we have 15 minutes to live i i was in dc when this happened um you know all my loved ones my family everyone uh is is in hawaii and what happened there was absolutely terrifying where um You know there was a video that came out after it was an iphone video that that this this father took as he lowered his little eight-year-old girl i think she was about eight years old down a manhole telling her that this is the only place you'll be safe and with the camera saying like if if i don't make it you know at least i want you to be okay um there were countless countless Stories of people that i heard from after this event happened about about what they went through in you know there was a guy who he had like he had one of his kids that was in town another kid that was on the west side of the island in waianae and he was somewhere in the middle and in that moment got that message trying to decide which am i going to drive to town or drive to Waianae which of my kids am i going to try to get to to spend those last minutes of my life with you know mother's going in the bathtub like seek seek immediate shelter everyone's like where do i go friend of mine he's got like a ton of kids i don't know six or seven kids he just started driving to the mountains like i just got to go find a cave somewhere and but but there was no shelter There's no shelter and so you got this fancy alert system and like okay it's blasting out see community shelter there is there is no shelter um what what ended up happening in those minutes that followed for me as soon as i got that notification on my phone i'm in dc i like holy [ __ ] what is happening i need to figure out what's happening and so i just started like going through Okay i know that i can probably try to reach indo pacom like command sell i don't have they don't bring cell phones in the building so that's a problem i ended up uh the first person i called was our state address in general who i knew if something was happening he was going to be at that civil defense command and he would obviously know and so i called Him and i said what's going on he's also my boss in the national guard so you know dual hat duel had there but i called him and i said what's going on and very quickly he said it's a false alarm i said i'm gonna put this out publicly you're telling me this is a false alarm and he said somebody push the wrong button false alarm so there's no missile coming in no missile coming in So i immediately hung up with him typed out a tweet in big block letters this is a false alarm i have confirmed with authorities there is no missile incoming and uh that tweet was the first public notification that went out um that let people know what was going on but you know i just started i was on the phone cons i was calling news stations radio stations You know uh people were calling me and i just literally i was just like false alarm click false alarm click just trying to get let people know what was going on and there's a whole other you know like incompetence thing like there was no official notification to the public coming from the state government until 38 minutes after that initial alert was sent out and that was a that was a whole other issue but the thing That led me ultimately to make that decision like to start thinking about i need to run for president is because of what everyone went through and realizing that you can have this fancy alert system and i'm sure the governor and other people are all bunkered down somewhere safe but there's no safety or shelter for anyone else and ultimately The fact that people the fact that this is a real threat that exists and there are others that politicians have created or escalated through political rhetoric of heightening tensions with nuclear-armed countries of of spurring a nuclear arms race and knowing like okay you know i'm sure there's probably some Some mechanism or system in place to protect them and their families but what about everybody else in the country people who um i mean nuclear war ends and utter complete destruction of the world ultimately and having gone through what we went through i wanted to be in a position to do two things by running for president i could raise This issue and bring it to the forefront because nobody was talking about it maybe there was a day of of you know cnn coverage or whatever on what happened in hawaii but then it was it was completely dropped and forgotten there was no like hold on a second so wait north korea has these capabilities they're continually increasing this threat is real there is no shelter like if we get attacked then it's kind of it's game Over what what's being done about this by the leaders and that none of that happened at all even in the aftermath of something that was you know terrifying and in such a real way and so so to be able to address these issues um and and the existential threat that we face that comes from that um continued advancement towards the the brink of nuclear war that that That we're on and if elected to be in a position as commander-in-chief to begin to walk us back away from that brink and to actually do something about it to de-escalate these tensions to actually work through the kinds of negotiations and treaties that previous presidents like you know reagan and jfk did when they recognized the seriousness of what happens when you When you are in a cold war and when you have nuclear armed countries who either intentionally or accidentally can spark a nuclear war that would result in the end of of humanity on this planet and uh that was that was the driver for me to make that decision um to run and unfortunately i very quickly found out that neither the media nor the politicians were interested in talking about It or anything that really mattered that it was it was about who's saying bad things about who uh which candidate is um you know who looks cool who's likable who's all of these superficial things but whether it was on the debate stage when i raised these issues or in interviews with reporters one on one or i mean i talked about i talked obviously talked about these issues Every day multiple times a day town hall meetings that reporters covered or were present for at least with the intent to cover what happened there was no interest in in in talking about uh this specific issue about the existential threat of nuclear war and what how we got here and where we need to go to prevent it what to speak of of of other issues and that was That was the most frustrating um that was the most frustrating thing about about running for president was the realization that even as a candidate for president united states the ability to bring such an issue as serious as this to the american people was so easily squashed by the corporate entertainment media and um the politicians who benefit from them Corporate entertainment media yeah that's a good name for the news it's it's more accurate than the news it certainly is so you said you realized very quickly that that no one wanted to hear about this stuff yeah like when you say very quickly how long did it take before you looked around and said wait a second because i remember hearing about you i Mean maybe it was on rogan um i i forget but i remember thinking oh you know that's cool i and it seemed to me wow what a i said wow what a what a viable candidate that's interesting and i remember seeing some polling and you were at like two percent and i said oh that's kind of weird that's not a very big number at all i was kind of surprised and then maybe that was early on but at some point i You know you were on rogan again or i saw you in a debate or something and i and i remember thinking oh i'm going to check that out again she's got to be at 30 or 40 now because i the people that i know are kind of talking about her and i'd look and you'd be at 2 and i was kind of it was very strange to me that you couldn't get you you weren't getting any traction Was that weird to you because i mean you did the whole hawaii thing where you were at 2 and then you went to 20 and then you won by 22. and here you are at 2 you're like that no factor i got this been here done that yeah at what point did you say oh damn this is a little harder than i thought it was going to be and was that the same realization as oh the media doesn't the media and the news And the entertainment networks don't care about this stuff the way i do there there were different signs of that the first of which started on the very day that i announced officially announced my candidacy as in build the event go up on the stage deliver the speech announcing my candidacy and why and i i talked about the very thing that we talked about as as where did you Drive in hawaii what was it uh what where outside yeah it was it was outside at uh in in waikiki and uh you know there were local and national media cameras there to cover it and uh you know a bunch of supporters and people came out while i was giving the speech nbc news put out an article uh basically making the accusation that I am i am somehow a favorite of the russians or being helped by the russians uh they're talking they're saying nice things i it you know it was the article was so vague and baseless and lacking in any kind of evidence to back up the claim that they were making that it was just it was just so out there and and i i knew that they were doing an article because they had called and asked for a Comment like a few days prior and had said you know without knowing the extent of like the the completeness of the article but they said hey you know what i what do you think about this and um and and they had said okay yeah we're going to publish the article probably sometime next week maybe wednesday or thursday and i think i think that my announcement was on a saturday Whatever day it was they changed their schedule for when they were going to publish the article so that it came out on the day that they knew i'd be announcing my candidacy and and their thing is like the russians like tulsi that's the that's the general and you know like russian bots or like you know russian state-sponsored media the thing was Is you know i think they they um said oh you know there are a lot of uh articles that are proving that the russians like her something like that but when you actually go and look at look at the articles they're citing it's it's not accurate first of all and second of all it lacks the context of like hey um they're actually just reporting that she's announced that she's running for president Or lacks the context of well when hillary and obama ran against each other in 2008 the russian media reported much more favorably for obama than hillary and so they they chose a narrative and chose to launch it on day one of my candidacy that tulsi would be the the russian asset or the favorite of the russians and planted that seed on day one Um you know cited oh you know she's gotten donations from her campaign from people who favor russia and you know one happened to be like a ivy league professor and specializes in foreign policy and has talked about nuclear war for decades and you know one was a woman who was trying to promote you know diplomacy and actually building relationships between Um like at a grassroots level between american educators and russian educators or business owners or whatever i mean the the the it was just a it was preposterous and very transparent a transparent signal and move on day one so that yes when did it start that's when it started and then of course it it continued to progress and escalate and i started to see both on the debate stage as the debate started to begin As well as um you know you know you and i talked earlier when you know you know when you're going in to do an interview like a media hit it's probably going to be four to five minutes long and you know you go in there knowing what you want to talk about regardless of the question that they ask you because you know you got like you know two senses exactly and so this this was why i was Running for president so i took every opportunity to raise it on every platform possible and there were no follow-ups there was there was no like oh hey like let's dig deeper into this issue which is clearly very serious no none of that it was like well you know what do you think about this canada what do you think about trump or what do you think about this like superficial drama Um and a conscious choice uh away from actually talking about uh what mattered most and it you know hillary clinton uh weighed in on the thing when when she said that um i forget the exact words but basically the russians have chosen their candidate and uh without saying my name said it was me and that was then covered by the media incessantly Which is like crazy it is it is and it was a signal in and of itself like why would why would the former secretary of state former presidential candidate former u.s senator former first lady go out of her way to place the target on me and why can't the russian bots do better than two percent distraction in the colts if the russian bots are so freaking powerful Why can't they run up your numbers a little bit for yeah yeah not not so much but it it eventually got to the point where um not like the coverage that i got ended up largely being negative attempts to smear my candidacy or question my patriotism and my loyalties so out of the gate i mean is this is this a grand conspiracy where they're like oh yeah tulsi she went against hillary in 2016. Get ready we're putting her down i certainly appeared that way and on top of that hey tulsi she's we can't control her this isn't gonna work we don't want someone that we can't control put her down it certainly appeared that way because um that was if you look at the outcome it was the outcome that that i think they were looking for And again it started from the beginning it ended up with a total total media blackout by the end of it um polling standards changed to make it so that uh you know it's like okay here they say hey you got to pull at a certain level in order to qualify for the debate and then qualify for the next debate and you know the polling standards often shifted Based on where you were right like that's that's a little convenient to change it right when i start inching up in the polls a little bit more but it also just points to like the catch-22 that exists where in america we'd like to believe that anybody can run for president anybody can run for office and that it's up to the candidate to go and make your case to voters and voters actually get to decide well In these presidential races so early on you can have very well-known candidates that everybody in the country's heard of and you can have lesser known candidates that most people have like no knowledge of whatsoever well they start running these polls so early on that uh show a lesser-known candidate like myself at one percent or two percent whereas the better known candidates are pulling much higher and then make the Determination well tulsi gabbard's not a viable candidate because she's only pulling at two percent so we're not going to really cover her very much because we don't deem her as a viable candidate and by we i mean the media and and the political party uh and so as a lesser known candidate then you're not covered as much as the better known candidate so you don't have The opportunity to get better known and and so it's this you know self-fulfilling prophecy yeah of we know who this person is we're going to keep covering up and it allows them to um it allows them to decide who who they want voters to be exposed to and uh who they don't believe deserves that kind of opportunity to be in front of voters and so it's kind of a Pre-selection a pre-primary selection before before any vote is cast you have these very powerful people within the party and within the media who who make those decisions about who gets to be heard and and uh who doesn't and that that was what we experienced and it was it was such an incredible this was the thing i underestimated the most That i thought hey i can run for president i can bring these ideas forward and yeah i'm at a disadvantage because i'm not as well known as some of these other guys but as long as i have the platform to be able to reach people all i got to do is like all i got to do is do my best and trust that voters will make will make the decision i underestimated how uh very quickly and in a sustained Way the media the decisions were made to to not even allow that platform to exist which left me in a pretty like a pretty helpless place you know i was yeah i can live stream my town hall on social media and i did i can reach it maybe a few more thousand people in addition to the thousand who were sitting in the room but when you look at the numbers uh in the country it you know When when they choose to not cover you and not allow you that platform uh then you know it's it's not only not only was i not able to to raise the issues and address the issues that that are not just important to me but important to our country um but also the the smear attempts and the negative coverage left me in a very helpless and and vulnerable position where i Couldn't fight back i did not have you know did not have the means even if i were a billionaire which i'm not and i had a very very very skinny budget our art campaign was pretty much fueled by volunteers and i love them so much people who really believed and set aside school or jobs or life and when worked their hearts out to help me get my message out But even if i were a well-funded candidate or a self-funded candidate a billionaire that i could go out and purchase ads and i could go out and create buy my own platform essentially if the media makes a decision to either not cover you or or to smear you and undermine therefore undermine whatever it is you're saying and doing it's it's um It's difficult if not impossible to beat and and i think this is so important to talk about because it is a charade of the democracy that we maybe believe exists in this country and it's certainly a charade of the democracy that our founders set out for us in this uh incredible imbalance of power and influence that's in the hands of a very few who don't have the best interests of the country at heart So we also got that going for us yeah and just to illustrate that i mean this guy who was the ceo of cbs this is i think probably the most stark and direct example uh les moonves is his name and he this was this was um yeah i mean this this was in 20 this was in 2016 that he said uh something along the lines of trump may be bad for the country but He's good for business the money is rolling in keep it up donald trump keep it up and his very direct statement illustrates everything that's wrong because it shows that this corporate entertainment media it's about the money it's about the profits it's about the rating with no regard whatsoever for what the consequence is For the country and for voters and for our future and that is something very serious that we as people in this country need to understand and be aware of so that we can start to bring about kind of the culture and societal shifts that will ultimately result in um in change and making it so that you know these few powerful People don't get to usurp our democracy and our voices being the voices that matter most in determining who we want to serve as leaders in our country so with that you see donald trump getting the you know getting the nod from the republicans which many many many republicans did not want him to be the candidate at all uh never trumpers and and so that was a Real thing they there was a lot of people that a lot of republicans that did not want and the republican party was not into him for much of the primary exactly like he was totally um and actually somebody when we were on uh rogan's together and i said something like wow you got really hammered more than i've seen anyone and someone in the youtube comments said hey idiot what about donald trump i was Like that's a good point they hated him apparently as much as they hated you in the democratic party how is it that he was able to pull it off does it is the republican party less controlling than the democratic party i don't know the answer to that specific question but how is he able to pull it off he was very famous and he had influence they couldn't black him out they Couldn't ignore him and they were making a [ __ ] ton of money off of him because with donald trump brought eyeballs to their screens whether it was uh fox news who was initially i think maybe cynical or even critical of him and then shifted to like full bore pro-trump or if it was cnn and msnbc who were i think initially kind of like how is This even happening to full-bore anti-trump um regardless in in all of these scenarios and from the democratic party's perspective and the republican party's perspective with trump came money democrats get to be the anti-trump party and motivate a lot of people to give money to beat trump or people who supported trump and members of congress or whatever and Republicans got to raise a lot of money off of hey look they're trying to attack us and they're trying to undermine what is going on and we need your money and we need your help to be able to you know defend the party and defend the work or whatever it is so um that how i think that that's what ultimately ended up i mean it gave trump a lot of exposure and yeah some some of it or maybe a lot Of it was was was uh was negative but you look at how much the public hates politicians and how much they distrust and hate the media you know you can kind of see how generally people who are frustrated and dissatisfied with the powerful elite whether they be in politics or the media would look at a guy and i have friends like this like they didn't really agree With anything that trump was saying they're like finally somebody is giving the middle finger to the media and telling him to you know shut up or whatever it was um trump had influence and uh he was very well known and could not be ignored so at some point does somebody come in to somebody come from the outside that's not as brash and not as offensive As trump and would that not be a pretty would that not be easier or was it because he's so brash uh and because he's so freaking quotable right good or bad you know he's just gonna run they're gonna put they're gonna put his quotes up all day long if somebody comes along that's from the outside but that is actually less brash and more calm and more rational Do they say okay it seems like that would be the perfect candidate right now someone from the outside that can actually roll in and say look this system is totally screwed up we're gonna like the the idea of draining the swamp was a great quote that's got so many legs or so much legs and it you know of Course it didn't really happen when you looked at his administration it was like oh yeah more people from the swamp more love yeah exactly right but but when someone does this in a more from a better from a better um like from a better position it seems like it's this is what i'm getting at because i was going to ask you well at some point Does it reach a tipping point it seems like the tipping point's there it's just someone needs to step in and say okay we are going to actually drain out this swamp we're gonna actually get rid of this these lobbies are gonna get you know controls put on them we're gonna we're gonna do things that's gonna move this in the right direction it seems like as you said americans a lot of americans aren't looking at the political system Going you got to be kidding me and look you telling me stories earlier today before we hit record it's kind of it's sickening it is it's sickening and so as that word gets out it seems like america's ready to go you know what we're done with this [ __ ] over here and trump was like the first guy that said hey i'll i'll help you out and so everyone went cool sounds good you go raise hell Basically yeah if someone that says yep we're going to fix it we're going to change it i'm for change i'm going gonna make things it seems like we are right for that i was good that's what i'm saying i'm saying i was going to ask you will we reach a tipping point it seems like we're already there trump was the guy that got elected based on saying Hey we're going to drain the swamp people voted for him to go and do that like you said people that you that you knew that didn't agree with any of his politics but he was changed he was different he was gonna throw it in the face of the system that's what we were ready for and it just so happens that the guy that threw it in the face of the system also threw in the face of everybody that was around him I mean just like a a grenade going off it's just people are getting hit and there's no direction to it so it seems like we're actually ready for that what's it gonna take to actually get someone there that's gonna run that's gonna that that's that that the truth will come out doing the right things for the right reasons is gonna win in the end someone who has the Resources and ammunition capable of going to battle with the existing political infrastructure and the corporate entertainment media that that's that's the match up because i agree you know there are there are more people who identify as independents in the country today than there are who people who identify as either democrats or Republicans really yes factually factually echo charles are we good to use that word yes sir thanks that's factually true we can look up i mean i've seen uh a variety and this has been trending in this direction for quite some time this is not a new phenomena but the numbers are consistently trending towards and and maybe some some of it's generational that that you know the Millennial generation did not come up identifying like my daddy was a democrat my granddaddy was a democrat i got to be a democrat i think there's there's less far less of that in in the millennial and post-millennial generation so i think that's part of it people are looking more at issues than party i think part of it is is people recognizing and being disillusioned with With both political parties as not looking out for their best interests that it's more about the party than the people so i think there's a number of reasons for this but it is a fact that it's over 40 percent of the country identify themselves as independent and therefore lesser numbers who identify as one party another so are the people ready for a strong leader who will come in and speak to what's in the best interest of The country rather than what's in the best interest of one party or another i i would say yes without a doubt so then the next question is how what is necessary to execute on that what is necessary is is first of all recognizing you know where's the opposition coming from the opposition will come from the people who are benefiting off the status quo and that is the existing two-party System and the the um the the the entertainment media that that is in bed with them and it's not impossible it's not insurmountable but it's a pretty serious obstacle and you got to be ready to go to battle with some of the most powerful people and uh so it would take a lot it would take a lot And the third party thing is what do you think is that is that dead on arrival not dead on arrival not impossible very difficult because i think it was it was back and i forget i think was the first time that ross perot ran for president uh was also when bill clinton was running for president and i think george h.w if i'm not mistaken yeah i think you're right at a certain point well early on though Early on at a certain point ross perot was polling higher than bill clinton and i i believe george bush as well and that like they're like what is going like how is this possible and had he continued his campaign at a certain point ross perot dropped out of the race and then jumped back in a little bit later and he took a big hit for that i don't know people probably like want Like do you not know what you want or like what are you doing buddy um but there are political pundits who say that if he had continued on um he you know who knows he may have become president or he may have posed a more serious threat in the end than he did ultimately his numbers took a dive after he re-entered the race and he ended up kind of just being the perennial third party guy who stole votes right But it was after that election year that the rules started to change in making it uh with with agreement from both the democrat and republican party that made it much more difficult for a third-party candidate to get ballot access just to get their names on the ballot to be included in debates just the basic infrastructure of a candidacy um changed to the point where and it still It still exists today that the the bar is much higher for a third-party candidate to to be heard and to be on the ballot than it is for uh candidates who run under one party or or another so that that that just again not impossible but from a practical perspective as well as from a an exposure perspective It's a much much much heavier lift that again requires a certain strategy and a hell of a lot of resources to be able to accomplish that so how long how long were you in the race for total um i think i announced in february of 2019 and i withdrew from the race i think in march february or march of i think it was march of uh 2020. it was it was after Kovid had kind of already started i was back in hawaii kovid had started to take a pretty firm hold maybe it was even later than that and it just it got to the point where like we're on lockdown at home in hawaii congress had shut down and uh i knew that the most effective use of my time at like the outcome of the primary seemed somewhat inevitable at that point and The most effective use of my time would be to focus on how i could best help with with the response of covid in hawaii and you know i was calling trying to get like n95 masks and just trying to help help with that local response in hawaii so you so you what is that called dropping out of the race is that what it's called is there some official word for it yeah no withdrew my candidates So you went through suspending that's the word they use suspending your candidacy and did you feel like what the hell just happened did you feel like wasted time did you feel like man because i again i remember looking at you in the polls and you know you might have gotten to three percent or four percent i could i i was really surprised i was really surprised You know that you just didn't get the kind of traction again as as joe said you're like such a kind of ideal candidate from like a box checking you're a veteran you're a woman you've been you've got experience you've got combat deployments you you're uh whatever not a white person you got these things that people are Looking for hapa yeah you're hapa right so so you got those things and it just seemed like oh okay it'll be interesting to watch this she's going to climb right up this thing and you never really made that progress does that surprise you i mean in hindsight no because you because you see you you mess with the machine at that moment like going through it Um it surprised me that i didn't even have the opportunity to earn it to earn the support to get that exposure i remember you telling me at some point you were like the number one most googled name after the first debate after the second debate what you didn't make the third debate for whatever reason yeah i don't remember which you know i think there was there was yeah there was a gap at some point where I didn't make one but then i made the the next i don't remember exactly what but in those first in those first debates um i was the most searched candidate of the night after each of those debates which was the whole point you know hey i can go on this stage a national stage the first debate i think had over 20 million viewers and this is the opportunity to introduce Myself to the american people uh in the hopes that they might say hmm she looks interesting i want to know more i want to learn more and that being starting to kind of crack open the door to be able to make an impact there i think one of the other in addition to all the things that we talked about about how that opportunity really ultimately did not exist and it started with that first debate um you know in advance We had set up our google ads account so that when people went on google and said hey who is tulsi gabbard then you know our links would pop up and they would then go to my website and they could look at you know click issue x y or z what do you care about bio background etc um that was the hope that that would be I would be the most googled candidate and that we therefore were ready for it um google shut down our google ads account with no reason whatsoever at all given during the first debate it was not actually during the debate it was afterward but it was during that it was during that window of time that was the golden opportunity to capture and it was a limited window and they they just like Your your account is suspended no explanation no here's what you got to do to fix it or get it you know whatever released and uh and to this day we've never gotten you know it was suspended for a certain period of time and then it was reinstated and it was not for lack of us trying to reach anybody who would answer us and tell us why and what we could do to fix it Immediately so you know i mean there's i filed a lawsuit against google for that um because of because of the the impact obviously that it had on me but also but really the bigger issue that i i wanted to raise by filing this lawsuit was you've got this massive big tech company who has the power to um interfere in the public square of our Democracy and you know who knows still to this day like was it some guy sitting at a computer who was like man [ __ ] tulsi gabbard i'm gonna punch this button and show her what's up or like who knows i don't know what happened but it happened and if it can happen to a sitting member of congress who's running for the highest office in the land it could happen to anybody running for Office anybody who's speaking out anybody being critical of whether it's big tech or government policy whatever the motive this is the power that they have in their hands that's incredibly dangerous in undermining the the kind of core pillars of of our democracy of having a marketplace of free ideas and voters who can you know get the information they need And ultimately make the decision that they want to make are they allowed to are they allowed to mess with like google adwords from a political perspective so in other words if i was running against you and i bought the adword tulsi gabbard and brought it to a freaking russian uh newspaper article about how they're your favorite so when i google tulsi gabbard i click on the First article that comes up it shows me that you're a russian plant can i do that in the political realm because look they do it with like i you know i i have a bunch of companies and sell a bunch of stuff and you type in jocko you know the other companies pay for that word for jocko protein and it brings to their site right so if i was a billionaire and you were running against me i could Be like oh cool i'll just buy tulsi gabbard who is telstra gabbard what is taos of gabbard where's chelsea gabbard come from and i'll just buy all those things and send them all to uh tulsi gabbers from russia or whatever else i'm gonna do is that legal in the polit i know it's illegal in the in the free market because they do it all the time is it legal in the political side as far as i know i I am not i have not come across any kind of like legislation against adwords in google there there are there are no laws or rules in place from a government perspective that that limit what these big tech monopolies can do with their algorithms and that's part of the whole issue here when we talk about big tech the monopolies the power that they Have to either promote or push forward certain voices or people or ideas and silence others and they can do so while being completely legally immune from any kind of accountability through our legal system because they're private companies well because yeah because they're private companies but this section 230 provision That exists within the law that was was put in place to encourage innovation on the internet early you know decades ago when they passed that law it that gave them this legal immunity it said that they can they can remove content that they deem to be objectionable without any definition of what that is first of all Whatever they want it to be whatever they want it to be and then it says whether or not it is protected by the constitution dang how i don't know who wrote that part of it probably the same bastard that clicked delete onto your freaking account for six hours but to have something in there that says you internet you know service provider company You can decide what speech you deem or content objectionable or not whether or not it is protected by our constitution this is the problem that needs to be fixed within our laws today as it relates to big tech and it's a relatively there's a lot of iv and i've looked at this a lot while i was in congress and then after for obvious reasons and you know there's a lot of different Proposals and different ways to kind of bite this apple but the most simple and direct way would be to take out that objectionable content just take those words out and instead um you know you can say unless it is unless it you know you you can remove content unless it is protected under the first amendment and there's legal precedence in place Through various supreme court rulings that provide very clear kind of guard rails towards what kind of speech is protected versus what is not and that way if if we make this legislative change it would alleviate the kind of pressure that these big companies are under right now coming from the left and the right because then they can just say look these are the guard rails This is speech that's protected and it's going to remain on the internet and speech that's not protected then it's up to us to make that decision to to uh to remove it that that's that's the that's the best answer that i have come across on how to um address this rather than allowing this you know i mean now we have like okay well we're going to cancel anything that's disinformation we're going to cancel Anything that's misinformation we're going to you know cancel anything that um we don't like or you know i mean it's getting worse and worse and unfortunately the direction that i'm seeing from democrats in congress is not towards hey how do we protect free speech but instead it's we need big tech to do more to shut people up who are saying things That uh we deem to be misinformation or disinformation or that could mislead people into believing a certain thing or seeing a certain view and it's it's it is you know the the fact that this is happening and people don't see the danger of okay you're in power today you got kevin mccarthy who's the head of the Republicans in the house saying i bet my house on the fact that republicans will regain the majority in 2022. what are you going to do when the tables turn and then you've got the other guys in power saying yeah you know what we don't want democrats to be misleading people on the internet so we're going to tweak the language a little bit and make sure that big tech silences those voices and pushes like It's it's so simple and clear dangerous of a position that we are in and that when you when you threaten the first amendment like freedom of speech a free press like freedom of religion um once you undermine that what do we have in america we don't we don't have we don't have the country we don't have our country yeah we did um We did a podcast and we recorded it before christmas but we did it on 1980 the book 1984. i listened to that yeah and it was really weird because we just you know it's just something that i was like all the same things that are going on and i and i you know read that book many many years ago and i remembered this one part of it was about the language and the importance of language and the Therefore the importance of free speech and we recorded it and then like it was christmas time and that that podcast came out january 6th and it was kind of crazy that it came out on that day it just we had recorded it a month prior and you had scheduled it for that it was just that's when it's coming out so it came out january 6th then 1984 was trending and then the the tat the hashtag 1984 Some some hashtag 1984 actually got shut down on twitter it was i don't know it was all it wasn't it wasn't because of that podcast but it was just very coincidental that all that was happening at the same time but the point of doing that podcast and this is exactly aligned with what you're saying you have to allow people to communicate With each other yeah and you know saying if you if if you say something to me that's misleading i can't just it's what i started off with i just don't say shut up you're not allowed to talk i say okay well actually tulsi let me show you some other information that might change your mind a little bit because by the way when i just tell you to shut up i don't move your opinion at all in fact There's a really good chance that i'm just going to make you even stronger on that opinion and that's what's happening in the country right now which is freaking nasty and and yeah and actually that again interestingly as all this was happening we we had had i talked to echo i was like listen man i don't know what's gonna happen in the world and i don't know what's gonna happen look We don't we're not on here making any uh inflammatory statements we're usually talking about history i said and that's cool we'll that's what we're gonna do but at some point people are starting to change history and i said i don't know what's gonna even happen with the platforms that we're on yeah like these platforms could change the way they do business and we started our own platform just to make sure that we have Some place to someplace to go in the event that things take a turn for the worse and there's a bunch of other things that could happen i mean you could have some of these free platforms say all right we're going to start charging money and start inserting ads into the middle of you know here's jocko talking about a a battle in world war ii and it's heavy and crazy and emotional and some someone's gonna insert an Ad in there like i don't want that i don't want people to have to put up with that so i don't know or do we just get someone to say look hey jonko you talked about this part of history which you know we don't really like we think it's misinformation and pull it down that's that's that's a reality that could happen yeah so we have to be wha that's why we made we made the The jocko underground just because of that uh so that's the platform that you guys created it's the platform yeah jacounderground.com and it's just a backup and look some people are like oh you want money i was like no we don't want your money yeah that's not what it's about but to not have a contingency plan is ignorant and so and again all that What's funny about all this is i had talked to echo about it he was kind i said hey can you build something figure this out he's you know working and figuring it out and eventually goes yeah you know i got it i mean this was before the end of 2020 this is before the end of 2020. it was a let's have a contingency plan in case something happened right and then i said you know what this is getting squirrely it's getting Squirrely let's launch the contingency plan you know next month just to have just to get it out there so people know what it is in case something happens and sure enough january 6th it was like boom we had it was so coincidental but it was very it was like and i remember texting echo like well i guess this is why we had a contingency plan and thank god it Launched today because who knows where it's going to be in six months i don't know i don't know it's crazy i remember um listening to that night so i i don't i have not listened like i have friends of mine who have listened to your podcast from number one and then uh those people are my friends too yeah but but like in in sequence like chronologically and like um A buddy of mine got to the the i think it was episode 99 as musashi 100 100 well he couldn't get past 99 because he didn't finish reading the book and i'm like hey jocko just did this new show on i can't do it because i can't listen to 100 until i read the book so check yeah spoiled so i'm not one of those people i'll jump around you've missed episodes echo is disappointing i'll jump around Like okay what am i in the mood like what am i in the mood for wait am i in the mood for dark depressing war am i in the mood for human atrocity where am i at and i'll tell you a funny story about that in a second but um i went straight for that 1984 and i don't remember what actual day it was it was not january 6 but it was in in the days after and i I wondered then if when you had recorded that because it was literally addressing everything that we were seeing play out right right before us as far as the warning signs and the dangers of this is where this is where you end up uh once you allow for this kind of control and once we as people accept it um But a little sidetrack funny story and i'll show you the video after um because it'll take me a minute to dig it up but it won't surprise you to know that on the presidential campaign trail sleep was hard to come by for me and for two reasons one was just a factor of time in the day but also it was tough for me to um tough for me to turn turn everything off and actually just Get like i'm not even talking about hours i'm just talking about just some a good a slice of good quality rest and sleep we were in new hampshire in the middle of winter and there was a rare opportunity where i got to take a nap and we'd like rented a like an airbnb or something like that and so i took a nap and my husband took a video of me taking a nap because he walked in The room and i'm i'm lying there and i'm asleep and i'm all bundled up under the covers and i got my phone sitting on my um on the top of the covers and i was listening to jocko podcast with a guy from the french foreign legion [Music] and i'll show you the video because i am dead asleep and uh my husband came in and he Has the camera going picks up my phone looks at and the reason i remember this was because this was on february 11th february 11th 2020 and it just so happened that it popped up on my phone on february 11th of this year as like the memory thing or whatever and i was debating sending it to you and i told my husband i was like oh he doesn't get the wrong idea and think i'm Like bored to death on this podcast and he's like no what it showed was like i was able to completely tune out the noise of of what was going on in my mind of the day to day and and be able to kind of be transported to a different conversation and topic and and all this other stuff but it was a great podcast that i did end up finishing But you gave me the gift of some really good sleep as well the soothing the soothing voice of choco talking about war can send anyone to sleep i don't know what that says about me and what makes me relax anyhow i remember when uh when you dropped out of the race and you you um endorsed biden yeah and i remember thinking because again i didn't know a lot of these things that You're telling me right now i knew them kind of but i still i i still had a some sort of naive sense in my heart that it can't be that bad and i remember i texted you and i said like hey are you gonna get the vp naught is this cause i was i was kind of surprised you endorsed biden i was like well you know what oh i said oh i know what's happening she's playing the game she's going to endorse biden bind's going to get her as the vp It's on and you were like you like you like however you laugh and text you're like hey hey bro you're a little bit uh you're a little bit lost there oh and then so so then you wrapped up your your career well you wrapped up this portion of your career as a politician in in that was it went out to dc for the last congressional session yeah packed up your locker january 2nd was my last official day We had to pack up the office before thanksgiving so uh no kidding you know we were there were obviously votes going into december there was uh you know government's gonna shut down if we don't pass a new appropriations bill and kind of the unfortunate usual thing that happens at the end of every year um but yeah i was working out of my car like parked in front of the capitol i had my computer and It's covered so you know votes consist of seven different groups of members of congress i was group two it's by alphabetical order where you're only allowed to have a certain number of people on the floor at any given time they decontaminate the whole floor between every vote and so when your group is called you go in cash your vote and then you leave and so that was like a park my votes are Called sometimes they last for you know an hour or two hours or whatever and if you've got four votes in a series then you're doing this running in and out you know four times in that series and so yeah i was you know office office shut down before thanksgiving had to turn in everything so that they could um transition and start to bring in other members of congress and i should Mention now that that um i made the decision not to run for re-election to my house seat in october of 2019 when it it got to the point where i had to make a decision where i would either continue my candidacy or i would suspend my presidential campaign and focus on running for reelection in hawaii and i couldn't do both legally i could have But just the constraints of of time and the tyranny of distance it was not i was i would end up doing a crappy job at both so that was the decision i made i i you know let folks and i wanted people in hawaii to know that um you know they were not some kind of fallback plan for me if this national thing didn't work out and that they would have the opportunity and the Time to decide who they would want you know to to work for them and other candidates who who um who are going to run so and that was a decision i never looked back on um or regretted in any way but as a result of that yeah so i think things started quickly and having to shut down in dc but january 2nd was was the actual final day were you um heading home kind of stoked That it was over or were you heading home kind of bummed out that it was over mixed feelings really mixed feelings um again i made that decision without regret and so it wasn't any surprise that this was going to happen at this point in time but i mean i remember landing at dulles airport and on that last trip and as i was driving into dc Like i'm not gonna make this drive again as a member of congress at least and uh even as screwed up as things are and as frustrating as things are and have progressively gotten it never takes away the awesomeness of that privilege of being able to serve uh in that in that way and you know there are grooves have you have you been inside the state capital the the the capital before the us capital when You go inside there are you know uh marble steps that take you up to the the actual entrance to the house floors on the second floor and then the visitors galleries on the third floor when you walk those steps there are they're deeply worn grooves where countless other leaders from our nation's history have walked those very steps and the the um it's an amazing thing To to never forget those who have come before us those who will come after and how special of a privilege it is that the people of hawaii allowed me that privilege to to do my best to serve them for the eight years uh that i was there and that was that was you know yeah i there's so much of the political drama and and just the theatrics and the All of the stuff that you just kind of gotta endure in order to try to do the work that you're trying to do and and i i've always hated all that stuff and had no no problem at all leaving that uh that behind but i think the the the mixed feelings and emotions part just came from um just that that reflecting on the time that i've had there and honestly wishing That there are a lot of areas and things that i wish i could have done more on that i could have you know um legislation that i wished had been able to advance farther or it's just different things you know assessing kind of what i was able to do what i wished i was able to do and um but but leaving with the sense of of peace uh in my heart in in knowing that you know i i did my Best and excited about how i can find uh how i will find a way to continue to serve so you get back home to hawaii and i know when i came back from my last deployment to iraq i had um i was home for i was home for like a month and one day i just like woke up on a saturday and i kind of felt like this weird weight I i felt good right i felt good and i felt like the weight was gone and i was kind of thinking about what what wha why do i feel so good right now and i realized oh it's because i'm not worried about one of my guys getting wounded or killed right now because we're home from deployment and it took me about a month for that to go away because it's just your instinct every time every time you Wake up you you're thinking about what's happening is is everyone okay you're thinking about that all the time and i never noticed it when i was on deployment because that's just how it was it was just you know you just wake up and that's what you're thinking and it's real well after a month of waking up and oh no it's not you don't have to worry about that oh oh no you don't have to Worry about that and eventually one day i woke up and said why don't i feel oh it's because i'm not worried about that thing i've been worried about for so long when you got home i mean the how long did it take for that to wear off the pressure the the constantly thinking about all this crap that's going on and what you need to do and where you need to move and what's the next maneuver and who's mad at you and who's happy with you and all This other crap how long did it take you for for you like oh i hope i have oh wait do i have wax for my surfboard right now how long did that take not very long you were able to get i was ready man but it also you know i mean just this whole covid situation also um you know i i had been home a lot more than i normally would have been and working from home and having virtual committee hearings and a lot of other Stuff that was just it was a strange lead-up to where the contrast wasn't so different um but it was it was odd for me like it started august is when our primary elections are in hawaii and i remember waking up on primary election day which is saturday in hawaii and i was like oh my gosh i'm don't have to go sign waving at Six o'clock in the morning um i can i can go surfing like this is a weird feeling because i had held elected office for the previous 10 years i'd been on a ballot every single election for the previous 10 years and so that was that was strange that was a really weird thing that was felt unnatural uh to me and then and then you know similarly um with the general election But yeah i was um i had no issue with that transition and and yeah went on to to uh take full advantage of of being home and knowing that well really a lot of it was being able to regain control over how i spent my time and have to to to no longer have those very immediate political factors playing into decisions that i'm making and um just to Just to be for the first time in a long time not have not been constantly jet-lagged that was something i didn't realize took such a toll for eight years i'm going back and forth two or three times a month between hawaii and dc five or six hours difference every time plane rides are long but that was not an ass whatever i can it's a plane ride um But you know like like i can actually like get a schedule happening and stick with it and not be up at two o'clock in the morning because it's eight in dc and then you know go to sleep at six cause it's midnight like it's just you know it was just just basic like simple life things like i i like to cook like i could act like hey Like i'm like i can go grocery shopping and cooking and not have to worry like is the food gonna rot by the time i have to leave and then come back it's just like simple little things um it was it's it's nice so let's get into what you're settling into now the dust is settled and you're able to buy groceries cook them before they rot you're able to surf yeah train get on a schedule but obviously That's not what you're going to do for the rest of your life yeah what else is going on what else you got going on in the world so i am uh so i'm still serving in the army reserves i have i moved from the national guard to the reserves and uh transitioned my branch to civil affairs awesome which um is often called kind of the the warrior diplomat service and um yeah it's it's Fantastic it's been a great move and one that's focused on building relationships and uh it's kind of kind of right at my eyes something i've been interested for a really long time that that i never pursued because it doesn't exist within the national guard for obvious reasons the national guard focuses domestic mission first but civil affairs is 98 of civil affairs forces In the united states army live within the army reserves there's the remaining whatever two percent is um basically lives on on fort bragg as part of the the unconventional um special forces community and so uh yeah i i'm appreciating the training the experience and also some of the missions that i've already been able to serve on there Um i as as kind of a direct result of everything that we talked about with my experience with the the mainstream media and being filtered into you know or limited to sound bites their unwillingness to go in depth or even really cover any real issues serious issues and just the caricatures that they they create um i am launching my own show where i will have the opportunity To um really speak uh directly to people in an unfiltered way and an unlimited way um both both about a lot of you know some of these issues that we've talked about and have conversations with people who can shed light and bring their expertise or experience on them but also just be able to have a platform where i can take some of those experiences That i've had and i'm sure you've had the same because i've seen it in the military i've seen it in politics where whether it's traveling to different parts of the country or traveling to different parts of the world there's there's so much more that we have in common as people than um is often focused on or that we even we may realize and so i look forward to being able to to have that platform my show is Called this is tulsi gabbard just because it is just me um and and use that as as a an opportunity to be able to fill that gap or or to provide what uh the mainstream media and the corporate media is not offering uh to to people and and that i found there's there is there's a lot of hunger for that for real conversation whether it's with people you agree with or Or to have a dialogue you know i want to be able to have people on my show who represent different views on an issue and who are interested in having a respectful conversation about it and why you hold one view why do you hold the other view where is their common ground where is their irretractable differences where where do you draw the line and and i think being able to um Provide this platform i hope will result in more people thinking like hey maybe i can start talking to my neighbor who voted for the other guy or the other party and we haven't really talked for like a year because of it but maybe we should just like start the conversation and see where it goes and that it's okay and that we in america should be encouraging Civil discourse and dialogue and um encouraging when we talk about what we have to protect freedom of speech what does that mean well you know and how do you do it like let's start with um speaking sharing our ideas and not as you started this whole our conversation today not in a way that says i'm right you're wrong i have to be heard you don't get to be Heard but in a way that that um that we don't see now where if you believe in something you hold a view that you feel is important strong and communicate that also recognize that not everyone may share that view for whatever reason maybe they have a different background a different experience and one that you may not have and that the More we can encourage this kind of exchange the stronger we are as a society that we don't lose by having uh great platforms for people to share them and that that's the biggest difference between what we're seeing today versus what i believe our founders envisioned for us where somehow we've come to a place where the powerful People in this country think that it's it's really a sign of insecurity where if those who hold different views are allowed to air them then somehow you'll lose which means maybe you're not confident yeah that what you're offering is going to quote unquote win or convince people that it is a superior idea yep it's it's so it it plays out Leadership strategy and tactics i talk about this you know if you if i'm in charge and tulsi you say hey hey jonko i don't think we should do it like that and my response is shut up and do what i told you to do i don't look strong no i look weak yeah i look weak if i say well tulsi how do you think we should do it and i listened to your idea and i incorporate some of your idea into the overall plan because you were Able to convince me because you had a different perspective than i did you'll see you'll look at me and think oh i really like working with working for jocko i really like working with jocko because he's listening to what i'm saying and all of a sudden we're coming up with actual better solutions by the way it's not like it's oh i'm doing this to appease to appease tulsi right now so She'll you know work harder for me no she's actually got a presentation to me that actually makes more sense we're gonna use it yeah so we're trying to get somewhere so this is a podcast your new your new show yeah it'll be uh you know available on all the podcast platforms [Music] we're also doing video it so i i i um so i i talked to you some time Ago and asked some questions about how you launch a podcast and such and um one of the things you told me about was consistency is key both of you that's that's uncontrolled well the message was received and so what i'm doing is so so soon within within the next few weeks but i'm recording a number of shows to have in the bank to make sure that you know hey i got to go away to training for a Couple of weeks that we're not gonna we're not gonna um skip a beat so how long is the show have you recorded somewhere i have yeah uh you know i there no no real time limit but right now they're about not like an hour and a half ish you're not going jocko psycho four hours i'm not opposed to it but no no no rules no rules and i i think that's that's The cool thing about it so is that the main focus of your effort training right now it is yeah you're gonna launch this show and uh i think probably by the end of this month is what i'm aiming for awesome so where can people find you uh people can find uh me at tulsi gabbard on all the social media platforms um and also on my website uh tulsi Gabbard.com there's there's a few different things that that i'm looking to do there updates and and information and i've i've moved it away from what it was traditionally which is a political campaign website and and really focusing more on how we can um build communities and conversation uh in our in our society i don't care if you're Democrat republican independent i don't care if you voted for trump or voted for hillary or whatever none of that should matter as we come together to to um rebuild bridges focused on how we collectively as americans can work together for the future of our country legit charles yes um that seems like a good place to wrap This this session i don't know maybe this a good place to wrap up this session sure tulsi's obviously been charging hard for well since you were 16 years old as a water woman which again we will be certain we will be scouring the internet for that she's been on the path echo charles and i'm thinking we should be on the path too What suggestions do you have do i have hey when you go to the grocery store do people like stop you a lot still in hawaii definitely oh yeah they do that foodland which is interesting because and i say i know you you're water woman i don't know where those kids are now hey billy how you doing i remember you where's your cape yeah exactly it's still there it's the same town yeah on on kauai like when you'd see the Mayor yeah at wherever you know star market for sure um yeah you'd always stop and be like hey you know so i would imagine if someone had like some thing you know something they want to address they they wouldn't hesitate to stop you because you're right there it happened most recently um i was out surfing the reef near the mokulua islands and the east side of oahu and the surf there only goes off Like it's only really good when there's no wind and there's swell obviously and it's it's a long it's it's like three quarters of a mile paddle from shore out there uh but it happened most recently there like usually it's like someone will paddle up be like where do i know you from and then and then like one as an advantage like oh yeah hi i'm tulsa oh My god that's what i thought and then word in the lineup travels pretty quickly and the last time i was a couple of weeks ago the waves were really stayed out for four hours and um people just like hey tulsi guys on stand-up boards looking down at me on my surfboard and talking stories like oh what this whatever it's so it's it's cool i like it yeah imagine so you go to sandy beach um i have been i Generally stay away from i don't want to threaten like my life by body searching at sandy's short break do you uh yeah bowser that was our spot yeah for sure but back in the day back in the day all right how are we staying on the path okay all right all right we're working out we're surfing yeah snowboarding zombo are you a snowboarder i ski snowboard but echo charles has recently become Highly engaged in snowboard shredding oh i like it it's true but we are working out and training for various things so i was pretty stoked when you were running and you put like um whatever videos of you doing squats yeah and i'm like come on go did we get a couple percentage points of increase on just doing burpees i was giving credit i was like yeah i Kind of you know i'm leaning in your direction just see you do a burpee that's all good in the polls yeah watching that saying oh there's tulsi doing burpees hey let's at least throw a dog right come on let me earn it with some burpees it's freaking ridiculous yeah i didn't really see much uh burpees by joe biden or anything i didn't see yeah i didn't see joe biden Doing any burpees nobody else nobody really else kind of got on the the fitness kick yeah crazy all good nonetheless we're going to stay on the path over here so through the path we may need supplementation i would suggest supplementation don't worry chocolate i believe in that it's true yeah true story 100 So here you go you got joints that need attention sometimes especially when we get older we're not eating younger is this the collective week as far as okay because i know i'm not yeah i vote against it stay in the same age i get it but for those of us who are you know we want to get something that helps in the routine supplementation for joints protein Brain body all this stuff so what do we got joint warfare joints krill oil joints discipline and discipline go brain and body how's that discipline going this this is good i i this is the first time i'm trying the the discipline go jocko palmer drink very good tasty very good no sugar in that yeah see i use monk fruit Like in my protein shakes and stuff like what's up yeah man too sweet didn't it to sweeten it yeah because you get you get you get the good natural like healthy sweetener without like the carbs of like maple syrup for example guess who just made the the clip of the wheat oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah that's my girl tulsa which maple syrup is my my go like i would only eat pancakes to Have maple syrup really but you know i can't did you get any maple syrup from pete up in up in maine no pete come on man yeah he's out there and he used to do it himself but now you know it's just like friends and and it's real maple syrup you can go up there oh man that was and sorry echo i'm messing with your jam here man but it's your jam one of the coolest Experiences well there were many but one of the coolest was when i stopped in freedom new hampshire and went to a sugar shack met with the three generations of family who have passed down from you know father to child uh and got to see the whole thing we went up to the trees saw the taps came down saw the whole process and then of course like sampled the Goods i'm like maple syrup is it ever since i've been a kid like those little maple leaf candies and you're just done finished i was up in maine talking to pete and he's like a sugar addict he obviously can't eat it that's why but he he was saying he would take little um a pencil box you know the pencil box you had when you were a little kid He would fill that with sugar cubes and hide it underneath his bed and at night when he'd go to bed he put like a little crack at it he started like going into a different realm mentally and he goes he goes bro have you ever tried have you ever eaten sugar he's talking to me about yeah like crazy you were when were you you were talking about that right on like um a thing yeah one of the origin videos Came out you showed me talking about that yes so it did sound crazy the way you were talking about but then i remember like we didn't just buy sugar cubes but every once in a while like you'd get the little pack right with all the sugar cubes and it and i'd eat those two they're like little candies yeah but it's like pure it's like main lining the sugar it's Kind of good i i didn't hide them on my bed stealing those things from your own family and putting them in it's like a little psycho right that's different you know well monk fruit yeah no sugar yeah exactly that's not sugar monk fruit is good stuff it's natural and by the way we went the distance and i held out long the other thing that's Cool about this drink is which was really hard to do is the way that you make it stay good on the shelf is it has to you have to preserve it somehow and what companies normally do is they just add chemicals to it right and they're called preservatives we've all heard of that right yes well instead of using preservatives which i didn't want to do It's it's pasteurized so it's like cooked so there's no but there's no chemicals in it but it costs us a ton of money to get it going and it took us an extra almost it took us over six months to get this all set up but then we did it now you can drink this and your kids can drink it my own kids can drink my drink it's something that my my mom always encouraged us and it's Like a habit i got into from a young age like just read the ingredients before you buy it and if you don't understand half of the things that are on the ingredients then you know think twice about you know putting it in your body let me ask you if you understand these ingredients filtered carbonated water natural flavor citric acid monk fruit that's the ingredient list done and it Has the vitamin b6 and b12 like it's got the other positive things right the actual the the food ingredients that's it that's incredible and more people are becoming conscious of this these days for sure really i mean more people are becoming aware and whether it's because of health like diabetes and or whatever else but i think there's just an increased Level of awareness of like hey and and even more so with covid like i really should be healthy i should strengthen my immune system and i should know what i'm consuming i felt so bad the last time you visited so whatever three months ago something like that you came by we didn't have time to record i didn't have time to record or whatever but you just came by to hang out a little bit And whatever two days later i called you up and said hey hey or i sent you a text hey how you doing you're like fine i'm like got something to tell you you're like what i'm like i got covered luckily i only saw like 10 people yeah in that time period of whatever that week was where i knew i had well i had been uh tested positive for covet Texted echo he's like yeah i can't smell anything this is a bummer dude i felt bad about that but um it happens unfortunately yeah but um yeah so there you go yeah you talk about the immunity thing yeah so come to find out giaco has that covered as well as far as supplementation goes vitamin d3 helps with immunity and a special supplement called cold war it was Again this was crazy right like so i before covered i traveled all the time on planes on you know all the time and you know the nightmare of that and you're breathing in everyone's stuff and so i said you know what i'm gonna make you know a good immunity booster with a bunch of vitamin c and just things that and so i made it and cool and it was selling good and whatever but then covet hit yeah and the tooth And i also made vitamin d already made it this isn't like oh it's it's covered it was already in the system it was already it was already live because i only i take vitamin d and boom as soon as covet hit it was like we could we had to just we we sold out almost immediately and then we just had to ramp it up but luckily we had already had the formulas built so That stuff is awesome cold war and then and the vitamin d3 that's true all good for you i'm a supplement taker just in general but i was not taking vitamin d prior to covid nor was i really aware of how important it was until i started to learn and read more and see especially related to covid how most americans are deficient like vast majority of americans are deficient in vitamin d And especially people who have any kind of you know colored tone to their skin even more so um are found to be deficient in vitamin d so uh i am now a daily consumer well vitamin d yeah yeah i learned that when we had our daughter where everything you know you read for best development all this stuff vitamin d was always popping up With everything oh yeah vitamin vitamin d that's true but yeah so yeah got some get some vitamin d also don't forget about milk this is extra protein in the form of a dessert yeah by the way sometimes it's just dessert that has protein straight up yeah especially if you get your little formula down like some people they just go milk milk milk almond milk whatever cool good but some Of us we we have our perfectly tuned formula yeah half a spoon of peanut butter one scoop mint chocolate one scoop peanut butter chocolate one banana damn wow give milk or two percent milk boom that's the formula in my household i randomly tried almond milk with peanut butter milk bro yeah legitimate what is up that's a freaking milkshake yeah that's A milkshake so that i added a banana like reluctantly like i was like okay banana because sometimes banana can jam up your whole flavor profile let me ask you this are they frozen or fresh both whatever because okay and then because the result is a little bit different it's possible i'm not that advanced to Tell the difference and here dude here's why i know about the frozen banana when a banana is starting to get uh rotten a little bit pass right because the brown is taking over you can peel it and freeze it that's what i do yes i didn't know that sarah told me that she's like cool sure enough she has two of them frozen inside because i needed a banana so i put the frozen one in i was like man this works perfect yeah They get creamier when they're frozen check this out over four hours for you to finally drop this knowledge the secrets okay good we grew my mom used to make ice cream at home from frozen bananas and just like literally put them through the champion juicer freeze them put them through the champion juicer maybe add a little bit of like whatever something to kind of like Put it up to the next level but like you have like homemade soft serve immediately so the frozen bananas i vouch for i i'm waiting for the plant-based mulk yeah to come out i don't know if i talked to you or pete about that but you may have talked to both of us [Music] but that's that's what i do is for for um after my workouts every day my first meal that's my first meal is a Shake i kind of fast until after that but i i do the the protein powder the almond milk the peanut butter just a healthy healthy solid dollop someone's going to stir off got the frozen banana and then i throw in i throw in some chia seeds some pumpkin seeds and flax seeds you guys make me feel like the amateur is over i don't know i go I go milk dawn that seems it's true it's a hearty shake but then i'm like i'm good like i'm good until like you know i have like an early dinner that's it yeah yeah that's kind of the good thing you can use it for many different reasons you know you can do like a meal replacement or just a supplementation for the protein you said you said protein and flex Double flexed your biceps we can get these things at many places if you're gonna be on the lookout for any of these places you can get all this stuff at first wawa east coast what was only on the east coast alright yes okay wawa um origin main.com jockofuel.com jacofuel.com kind of the same what do you call it trajectory yeah gold vitamin c I'm talking about and the vitamin c yes sir by the way this is important actually because shipping is a problem right financially it can cost a lot of money to ship something here's the deal if you subscribe to any of these items shipping is free wow so we're trying to look there's we're talking about tech companies there's obviously some big tech companies out there that are hard to Compete with in fact we you can't beat them join them we join them it's fine you can get the stuff there because it's free shipping you know it's like a it's like sort of a that's a prime merry reason why people might order from this particular place which is cool we're down we appreciate it 100 that's fine but if you wanted to just go straight to the Source but you didn't want to spend money on shipping we got you covered and it took us a while to figure out how we could balance it if you subscribe shipping's free on whatever you order so that's kind of kind of huge when you're talking about it's a very strange protein you're right yeah and echo no offense to echo sometimes he's not quite the pinnacle of organization When it comes i'm doing the best thing so diplomatic i love it look again look i prefaced it by saying no offense so therefore you can't be offended yeah hey i'm doing the best i can over here i'm out of mulch by the way there you go why aren't you subscribed uh well you got issues yeah is that issues nonetheless over there flexing your biceps nonetheless hey look this is where how and where we can get all these Things also way to stay on the path do jiu jitsu or martial arts martial arts it's good for you let's go for your mind body i'm glad you're being diplomatic now well he's being diplomatic and like including being all inclusive of all martial arts he's never said anything like that before ever we talk about doing martial arts we're talking about jiu jitsu over here on our side i think that's what we're Talking about you are correct but go ahead continue mr diplomatic thank you you've improved his diplomacy already today just hanging out with you he's got aloha that's true normally this guy has no aloha for other martial arts oh it's like that you're here okay everything's cool well either way whatever martial arts we're doing i say do that stuff in the event of you Doing jiu jitsu you're gonna need a gui and or rash guard get those as well from origin how much did you do have you trained a little bit not a lot i mean at the most the most if you could i guess within the family would be the army combatives oh okay just legit yeah the army combatives is a great program yeah developed by jiu jitsu guys exactly I i early on i guess the the the martial art that i trained the most in was was brazilian capoeira oh that's right i was makes me laugh every time i hear you pronouncing english words with a brazilian portuguese accent oh okay i was like yeah i know what that's about although i talked i said earlier starting off this program that i'm very look i just say what i say when it comes to you know brazilian Portuguese words like if you're going to talk to me about oh you train capoeira i'm coming at you like a pro that's what we do overall now well and because of that i took summer classes in brazilian portuguese in hawaii like uh like trying to learn the lang i was i was getting fully immersed in the culture and and started to do a lot of a lot of my Friends who did capoeira also did jiu jitsu and met a lot there's a huge brazilian community in hawaii because of surfing and obviously most of them do either capoeira and jiu jitsu as well and uh but i just i was kind of um consumed i was training like six hours a day in capoeira and that was that was i was starting to teach and i was doing a bunch of stuff there um but yeah so so the most time i spent Doing any kind of grappling was was army combatives which was fun well it's cool because now you're going to be on the journey of jiu jitsu we're going to get you a gear yeah i want i really i i want to learn and i'm a big mixed martial arts fan i have been for a long time and yeah you went up and trained with duke rufus right yeah that was an incredible Surprise that i was not expecting but he was there to train um zhang wai lee and she was passing through doing a publicity thing so i got to meet her and spar i use that word very generously she's like come at me like kick me punch like do something like i don't know but it was like like getting to hit some pads with duke was freaking incredible yeah and uh yeah it was awesome i've Cornered a bunch of fighters at ufc and and whenever duke rufus was there he's just like such an awesome guy super cool super nice yeah super i mean obviously he's a great trainer and everything but i just remembered thinking this guy's just freaking rad yeah just totally totally and he makes you know like he made us feel just great and um but what i was gonna Say is the thing that i've always appreciated most most about mixed martial arts is you know yeah there are guys who are stronger in boxing or striking or whatever but this the strategery that goes into fighters who have a very strong ground game when you really watch it is i've just incredible and that that's what i've loved most about uh the sport is the strategic thinking That goes into like i'm gonna do this and set you up for where i'm gonna put you in you know six moves later or oh yeah whatever so yeah i'm now now that i'm a little bit more free um i i really do i've been telling my husband this i want to i want to learn we have connections yesterday in the hawaiian islands uh speaking of geese jiu jitsu geez and jeans and boots you went to the factory In maine right now i did visited the origin factory in maine and to say i was stoked is an understatement and we made a little social media video video about it and and you know got some footage of pete showing us around and talking about what they do um brought the local media with us and local media did a story on on uh on origin but my husband will tell you in the car ride leaving i was so freaking stoked it was It was completely unexpected because i've had the privilege of going and visiting a number of you know local businesses and shops but the thing that really like struck home for me like in a in a visceral way was awesome products but the spirit uh the spirit of origin came through loud and clear Not just because pete's good at talking about it but because of what i experienced in the people who work there and the sense of pride and the sense of of ownership of the thing that says right there we get to do this and and how deeply you all have built the foundation of this american business in the fabric of america and that like i was like i left there and i'm like i told pete i Was like um like where do i sign up like how do i how do i join this because this is freaking amazing and i talked about it and just shared that's why i wanted to share um that video and just the experience of being able to go and visit and it was not on the way like farmington maine is on the way to nowhere else i was going and it was literally like i i called an Audible on my team and i'm like yeah we're in maine and i'm gonna take a two hour like detour to go and visit because the story of that you guys are sharing of origin maine is the story that needs to inspire america especially now in what what we can do what we can do here at home and that yes this is about supporting a local business It's about supporting america and american jobs but it goes so much deeper than that that yeah of course there are challenges and there as adversity and you know foreign trade and like all of these other things but just like um you know pete talks about how he started right in his freaking backyard and built a factory because there wasn't one where there's a will there's a way and When you're rooted in this foundation of not just hey how can we make a bunch of money but how do how do you use business as a means to serve and have a positive impact in your community in the lives of the people who work there in the customers who know like hey i'm not just buying a product that's cool i'm supporting a mission that's much greater Than any one of us as individuals and will have a much longer lasting impact yeah if you were to take what you just said if you were if you and i were to look at each other and say hey let's make a business and let's make you know let's make clothes let's make apparel let's make shoes and let's make money the last thing we would do to make money Is try and build a factory in america correct and source everything from america is absolutely sad and there's company upon company upon company that their primary goal is to make money that's their primary goal it's not to make a quality product it's not to be innovative with their products it's not to rebuild their community It's not to put money back into the community it's not to not to bring manufacturing back to america that's that's not even on their radar those are our primary goals now in order to do that we do we have to make money yes absolutely and we will but that's not why we're doing it if we just wanted to make money we wouldn't be there would be no factory it'd be it'd be a sweat shop yeah Overseas that's what it would be we're not going to do that we're never going to do that and you'd be no different than most of the others that you know and and it would you wouldn't be you origin wouldn't be origin then ab absolutely and to be quite frank with you money could not drive me or inspire me or motivate me one 100th the amount that it does to know that there's people In that town yes that are working that are have a career now you know we're taking millennials and teaching them a a skill that was oh was so close to being lost you saw them i did millennials that their skills that were i mean our our guy lenny just died but he before he died he was able to pass on his knowledge that can be passed on because it's saved It's there yeah we're we're there and it's you also i was so stoked you know you and i were texting back and forth and i think i was trying to get you a pair of boots i was like hey we'll get you some boobs yeah we had somebody deliver you boots but for you to go up there was i was so stoked that you could go up there and you could see it and and you know it's very cool too like I'll hear joe rogan talking about origin and even though he's not been there like he knows it's very cool when i saw when i heard him talking about origen and he was just talking about it with some someone else that was was on his show when i heard him talking about it so passionately i realized this is people get it you don't just you look it's awesome When you go there and obviously when you go there it's visceral when you go there but even if you don't go there you know you know that some that pair of jeans that you're wearing those are those are american made the hands that harvested the cotton processed it every step that's the amazing thing is and i you know some of my some of my friends in the military especially when They got their stimulus checks they're like i'm gonna make a choice with this money and i'm gonna go shopping at origin because cool stuff but i'm supporting america with these dollars and that that's the difference and that's the impact and and i i i loved sharing the story of my experience there to help inspire others who May aspire to do something similar but feel like the obstacles are too great but but and whether it's business or whatever i mean that the point is the motivation and the spirit of getting back to not planning this but getting back to our origins of who we are as a country of entrepreneurs and innovators and people who are bringing different ideas to to um and the pride The pride uh that goes that goes along with that origin usa yeah originusa.com if you want to get any stuff from there it's made by americans for americans it's true also let me point your attention to jockostore.com this is where you can represent there's on the path there you go so yeah we have some some stuff that we have is from origin We got rash guards on there um also we have hoodies and shirts and you know discipline equals freedom this kind of stuff i'm saying if your seems to get uncomfortable and you start talking about him is it that obvious it is that obvious there's a visible shift here yeah in energy what's funny is it's kind of like a complimentary relationship because like my comfort increases when his Discomfort increases so it's like cool that's why you can kind of sense some pride when i talk about the store store by the way anyway yes this will include shirts hoodies rash guards uh some hats on there some new stuff on there new design coming out soon oh really i'll let you know these are all things that happen decentralized command like i'm not over There pointing the finger and making things happen that's echo charles in his own little world well it's our world we have a subscription situation as well if you want like a new type of design kind of um is that where the is that where the run dmc t-shirt just came from yes that was legit that's good before they're done sometimes sometimes there is a level Of decentralized command but i also some people in the organization will say occasionally need to get put in check so there is sometimes but occasionally these things slip by like he just made a run the md run dmc t-shirt but it says discipline but it it's ds what is it dsc pln yeah but it looks like the old school run dmc yeah t-shirt so it's freaking legit i thought so too there's also ones like The element you know the periodic table yeah the element yeah so it's element d and it has all the the atomic weight 434 nice layers anyway these are kind of offshoot designs but they're cool relevant and there's layers oh here's the thing that's jacked up now i just realized if you wanted that run dmc discipline shirt you can only get it if you subscribe if you're a subscriber to The shirt lock the shirt locker the shirt locker of echo it's true yeah once they're gone they're gone that's so mad so limited limited it's kind of a bummer yeah and by the way it seems like one person at this table does not have a subscription to this what's funny is i for real have a subscription i for real don't oh you were just jacked up brutal brutal i thought you were calling me out by not Calling me out that's what i thought oh but okay there's two people that don't have a subscription apparently dang that makes two of us i guess or one of us whichever either way maybe i have some extra oh i'll hook you guys up oh man that'd be great is that cool yeah that'd be very nice if you could hook me up with my own stuff uh speaking of subscription subscribe to This podcast wherever you subscribe to podcasts also we have jocko unraveling which we're about to record somewhere this week awesome grounded podcast warrior kid podcast and by the way you also have another podcast to subscribe to which is called this is tulsi gabbard this is tulsi gabbard it's actually up already so i posted a trailer you can you can Subscribe and follow now so that you can know when we dropped the first episode and follow on once you can also join us at the underground jockowunderground.com which i already mentioned so i'm not going to go into a big um explanation but gotta have a contingency plan don't wanna act b don't wanna be feeling the chains of control yeah from Anyone not sponsors not tech companies no one we're so so we got to go underground yep docker underground.com if you want to help us out there it costs eight dollars and 18 cents a month which is got layers to it yes sir we'll talk about that offline yep and look we're not if you can't afford that for whatever reason you're running into Some tough times right now there's covid whatever and you can't afford it order or or email assistance at jockowunderground.com and we can get that taken care of we have a youtube channel it's true which has a lot of videos on it the good ones i'm the assistant director on the rest of them it's echo solo you have a youtube channel too Yeah tulsi gabbard you post we post all kinds of stuff we'll be posting we'll be posting the um uh the podcast on there as well but also just you know different things that are happening i i often record short videos kind of weighing in on maybe issues of the day or news or different things that are coming forward and more often than not bring a different perspective Than one you're getting uh in the news so um yeah i post those uh across youtube and across social media at tulsi gabbard psychological warfare is an album you did you know that i was an artist tulsi i did not i mean recording a recording artist so if you want to get my album um and it's the artist is jocko okay and the the album is called psychological warfare And there's a bunch of tracks on there that you can listen to whenever you need them is the wake up track one of them the wake up track apparently that was the sleep track sweet dreams uh flipside canvas flipsidecampus.com dakota meyer my brother he makes all kinds of cool stuff again american-made stuff that that is the highest quality puts all kinds of stuff that you can Hang on your wall to remind you of the path got a bunch of books uh i got a book called final spin which is the novel not out yet comes out in september i've been tracking that yeah it's pretty crazy i just got the final or i just did the final edits it's it's freaking i was my daughter my oldest daughter read it i was like how can you review this And so she read it and you know your kids are always like gonna be harsh critics or whatever and my i said oh you know she got done reading it so you know how was it how did you like it and so she starts going you know i like this and i like that and then she she got to a point and she started because it's an emotional situation she started to cry oh my god this is not wall street this was After a day after she read it she started crying and she was like and and then i was kind of like oh i go i guess that's a good judge she was like just that that part so and i was like okay so it's very interesting so not the this is it's just not a sob story but it's uh you would want to write a book that moves people well i mean yeah i guess i guess if it's Not going to have any impact or if it's going to have an impact that's a good thing to make people think yeah and it's a it's it's definitely even as i read it and i've read it now a hundred times because i have to edit it you know there's some parts where i'm reading it and it's definitely it's it's heavy it's heavy and it's got some really funny parts too a lot of the dialogue is really funny because I you know it's reflective of kind of the dialogue that i have with people even though it's not about me or is it i'm not sure it's open to interpretation yeah it's sort of an alternative anyways the book is called final spin and you can pre-order right now if you want to get a first a dish yes if you want to get a first a dish order it now and look thi this is going to be kind of a big deal to get the First edition of the first novel you know what i'm saying am i over hyping that is the second in the works this this book will have no follow-on okay um for various reasons it primarily includes it does conclude it is called final spin it is not like first spin so it is called final spin but also i it's it is It is complete sure in my mind it's complete and so i don't want to carry the story on but you have more novels than you oh yeah i mean i got 14 novels that i thought of during the last half an hour yeah awesome yeah it's um unfortunate for me it's always just people say oh i don't know what to write about oh my god i wish i had that problem so that's that final spin pre-order it Leadership strategy and tactics field manual the code the evaluation the protocol display equals freedom field manual way the warrior kid four field manual that's out way the warrior kid one two and three mikey and the dragons i was listening to i was listening to jordan peterson okay yesterday and and he was just going off about the dragons which is sure a lot of what he does and Interestingly enough i was like sounds like this book called mikey and the dragons so check that one out about face by david hackworth there's a forward by me and tulsi you've i just got it in the mail a couple of days before i left hawaii and i have read your forward okay and i'm just starting what's the impression starting The book um how incredibly impactful this book and this man has been on your life as a person but the thing that really um like spoke to me was how this was kind of um your go-to reference to help guide you through difficult leadership choices decisions challenges that you face in some of the most difficult environments i.e being in at war and and that you've never met The man and that was um that came through very clear kind of your gratitude to him um in having this this book that provided you with that place where you could find the answers that you couldn't find anywhere else or help you see things in a different way that you wouldn't have seen otherwise through his experiences and how he handled things or his perspective And then the the maybe the most important thing was that all of that came from the foremost concern being care for your guys his soldiers your seals soldiers who you were people who um you were responsible for and uh i i thought that was a really cool thing for me to come out i've only heard you talk about it but to come at this book and i'm really looking forward to re Continuing to read it but to see that bridge in time and that that and conflicts and wars between a guy who served in vietnam and was a leader of soldiers in vietnam to you and the experience that you had as a leader serving in iraq and how there was such um powerful connection between two different leaders and two different wars and different places in different times That that's not something i've really heard of before it's weird because i as i read that book have you ever seen the movie the i think it's called the 13th warrior have you ever heard of this movie tom cruise no so anyways it's based on it's based on a book by michael crichton and i can't remember the name of the book that it's based Upon but it's about this arabic person who gets somehow mixed up in with the vikings and there's a great scene and that the arabic guy is played by some famous actor god i can't think of it echo trump really wishes but they show they did they do this scene where he's learning to speak norwegian or whatever old norse Whatever language you're speaking and the way that they cut it up they're speaking norwegian and then every once in a while an english word pops in which would have been an arabic movie or arabic word but it's a it's a it's an english speaking movie so every once in a while an uh an english word will pop in so it's like a mother mother Tree and so and he starts picking up and it's probably a two minute scene where by the end all the words are in english the reason i'm telling you this is because as you were as you were talking about the book about face i feel like each time i read it like a little because it's not a book about leadership and you know you mentioned leadership it's not a book about leadership It's a book about a guy's life but it's like as each time i read it a little leadership thing would come through and then a little bit more and then a little bit more and eventually the whole thing i realized this whole thing is just about leadership and it's about how to take care of your troops and do the mission and it's it's i just had that thought as you were As you were describing the correlations between what he lived through and what i lived through which by the way just for the record not even close he was in korea in vietnam he's the he had three distinguished service crosses nine silver i mean just totally different but good book to check out the closest thing that i can relate to In my time in the military is you mentioned band of brothers earlier and i was a brand new maybe i was an e3 or an e4 by that point but i picked up the book band of brothers before ever watching the the mini series i don't even know if it was made at that time yet but uh i was brand new in the national guard i started reading the book just as We were about to go and do an annual training at fort indian town gap in pennsylvania and i'm reading the book i like can't put it down we go there we're there for 10 days or two weeks or whatever it was on the plane going back to hawaii and i finished the book and at the end of the book it says dick winters currently resides in fort indian town gap pennsylvania where he lives with his Wife yeah and i'm just like why didn't i finish this two days earlier i would have definitely gone and knocked on this man and he was still alive at the time um that was but but i've you know gone on and watched i mean i've watched this year i don't even know how many times i've watched it um in ocs we had to write essays on different episodes From a leadership perspective leadership lessons good and bad and really analyzed um each episode of that and and so that's that's one and that's the only kind of closest thing i can relate to we're going back and looking at him and his leadership and i always forget the guy's name but the guy who's ross in france thank you um his his uh Flawed leadership i would say and the lessons learned from that and as a specialist then and then a brand new lieutenant i i have often gone back to those leadership lessons including the ones of um you know some of the uh oh gosh i'm forgetting the name now some of the enlisted characters yep and uh one that was played by donnie wahlberg Um one of the main e6's and uh and that was i had a chance to meet donnie wahlberg at a veterans event and like i don't i don't really care about celebrities in general but i saw he was there i'm like i need to go speak to this person about band of brothers and uh it was it was really cool he's a huge huge huge supporter of veterans i was on um a show called billions you were yeah and the the One of the main characters in billions a guy named axelrod uh yeah is uh he also played dick winners he is forever dick winners in my mind i don't care like he was in homeland too like yeah whatever you're dick winners but we you know he we were sitting around and talking and and he said something along the lines of like oh you know i was in something called banner brothers i'm like Yeah i kind of know that i'm well aware yeah and so we talked a bunch about it it was it was interesting because in those i've never done any like hollywood things before i was like yeah he likes to throw that at me well when you do it you film the same thing 10 times if not more so like there's a scene where we're waking A guy up in bed and there's me and axe and wags have you watched billions before i've only seen one or two okay really it's a freaking fantastic show okay so me axe wires three characters and so we're waking a guy up and the first time we film it is like they're filming all three of us and we deliver the lines and then you stop and then they reset up All the cameras and then they do it again but they're just filming me and then they reset up the cameras and they do it again they're just filming wags and then they refill it again they're just filming action and then they refill it again they're just filming the girl in bed then they refill it again and then they do it from behind us and they do it so it ends up you end up doing this thing 10 times 15 times 20 and by the way if someone messes up doing it again so i was talking to him and i said how in god's name did you film like a battle scene yeah how the hell did you do that and he he said it's totally different because there's basically guys running around with cameras and they do it one freaking time and they just have to get it right And they're running through it because explosions are going off and like a building is going to get destroyed and it's only going to get one take yeah so that was pretty interesting no pressure right as an actor not only because of that just the the logistics of it but like the history and what you're doing and who you're representing like my gosh i can't i can't imagine he um so if Someone messes up the director comes and like talks to him right he just reprimanded like i'm serious so if someone any maybe he doesn't mess up but maybe he's not putting the right right stank on it right you know what i'm saying like you're technically too little you know you're being too emotional and so it happened i didn't really i didn't know any of This were you playing a military person yourself i i had a real stretch of a role i played me okay all right yeah so i played me and i was whatever trying to i was trying to help a guy win a smoker's fight a boxing match and we're training him um but if you mess up or you don't put enough or you put a little too much or whatever the the Director actually the first the assistant director is going to come and give you a little nudge in the right direction hey that was a little you know don't be so loud uh you know you're too emotional this isn't supposed to be funny or whatever something like that and so this actually happened to me i don't know if i'm not supposed to talk about stuff like this maybe it's off limits But it's done it's fine it happened to one of the other actors we were doing is just me and one other actor in a scene and we do it and i'm just doing what i do so honestly it's pretty if i have to get talked to it's a problem because i'm just being myself right so i'm doing what i'm doing and the the assistant director comes down first and it's like hey you know what You might want to back that down a little bit not talking to me but talk to the other guy and and he's like what are we going to do he said yeah we're going to do it again which is kind of a big deal like it's not it's not a small thing right we're actually because i remember saying wait are we going to have to shoot this again he goes yeah we're going to shoot it again so it's kind of so I realized that this was kind of a thing if you and then if you continue to mess up then it's not just the assistant director if the director is going to come down and try and give you you know whatever what do they give you [Music] and so i'm watching this going dude i don't want none of this and so i remember one time uh uh so now it's me Axe and wax and they're the main guys and these guys and i didn't know anything about anything right but this is a very popular show and it's an incredibly well-written show the the writers i know the writers now and they're just so good and you understand so anyways they're we do a take right hollywood we do it and like you can hear you can hear like radios like you can hear something And you so now all you realize someone messed up right and then they come walking up and uh and he comes walking up you can he's behind us the director he pulls one of the other guys aside you know blah blah blah and i was like and i said axe i was like bro i thought he was coming for me even the pros don't like get the talking too so there you go um other books extreme ownership first book I wrote wrote about leadership and then the dichotomy of leadership echelon front leadership consultancy we solve problems through leadership go to salonfront.com if you want us to come to your company and help we got ef online it's an online leadership training platform to get your whole organization aligned not just a line towards a common goal but more important aligned in how they are going to lead Go to efonline.com for that we got the muster 2021 a bunch of different dates we're going to be coming around the country check extreme ownership.com if you want to come to one of those they've all sold out every time we've done one these are going to sell out too so check it early we've got ef battlefield which is we've done one so far we're doing another one We go out and we walk the grounds of the battlefield at gettysburg oh yeah and you we sit there we talk through the decisions that were made we talk about general lee and longstreet and ap hill and and stewart and mead and hancock and reynolds and and and joshua chamberlain from maine we we talked through with their personalities decisions that got made egos that got Involved hesitation being overly aggressive not being aggressive enough we talk throughout so many lessons to learn and this is a little tiny group of people there's 35 people that we bring to this event it's all day long um me the rest of the echelon of quite a few of the echelon front instructors walk in the battlefield we Do dinner we're going to do a q a it's we will answer whatever questions you have and we will all learn about these lessons so if you want to go to that go to godaddlefront.com events to check that out did you take a note there i did um highly highly recommend i've had the opportunity to do that a few times one of which while i was um well we went we went to the battlefield of chickamauga When i was in ocs and we did that as a class incredible bringing history to life and making it relevant especially from a leadership perspective that applies whether you're in the military or not but something i found out pretty cool in the last year or so i was asked to be on this show on pbs called finding your roots and it's a show that features different People in in my episode they also had paul ryan and marco rubio but you know like oprah they've had different people on and and they dig into your genealogy and find stories about your roots where you come from who you come from and i found out that one of my ancestors on my mother's side of the family Was 39 40 years old when he volunteered to serve in the union army and that he it was the and they had the documentation there of one of those battlefields where he fought that i had been to previously and visited and walked through and it was the most like it was the most incredible thing on on many levels to see like this guy gave up his life To go and and fight for what he believed in and that i had generations later not only physically walked through that battlefield where he was but also chose a similar path um with my life and so um it was just it was it was and i've gone back to gettysburg a few times since and every single time i go um it's an incredibly powerful Experience incredibly powerful and to go to the place where of course lincoln delivered the gettysburg address yeah yeah it's when when because we basically we spend the two days walking and then we we when we wrap it up and you kind of now you clearly know and you've seen the low ground the high ground the trees the buildings and you're walking where thousands of Men were killed yeah it's it it's just it's just unbelievable it's an unbelievable event it's an unbelievable place and it's an incredible way to learn and solidify those so that's ef echelonfront.com events if you want to go um it's in april so and if you want to help service members active and retired their families gold Star families then check out mark lee's mom she's got a in a charity organization mama lee if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to america's mightywarriors.org and if you want more of my imposing interrogations or you want more of echo's quiet questions and pop culture commentary pop culture Commentary i just so whenever i'm giving echo a hard time if it's a pretty good one then he'll say to me like you're real happy with yourself aren't you you're really enjoying yourself aren't you you really enjoyed yourself aren't you you think you're good don't you and i that's how i know i'm kind of getting there and as i got as when we got here today As i got out of the car i was i was responding to twitter or instagram and i had just made a comment and i got out of the car and said hey you know sometimes you say that to me because someone had said the the last woman that was on holly mckay someone had said oh did she does she stay for the support section meaning what we've dragged you into for the past freaking hour And i said uh no she was able to withstand you know isis interrogations but she couldn't hang with echo charles and the support so there you go yeah he's very very happy with that one good sense that the pride and the tone of the the comment there you go admittedly so guilty uh if you want more of us you can't you then then you can find us on the interweb and and that's including tulsi's way Tulsi as well at tulsi gabbard echo is at echo charles and i am at jonko willink echo charles you got anything else are you running for president again ever or even possibly do you think i don't know i'm not thinking about it at all if you did would you ask about aliens remember how who someone asked about aliens right i think so i think it was like clinton or Something um it's not on the top of my list i understand put it that way there you go did i say something about echo's questions earlier he saved the best for last point what's funny is when i first met you or whatever i was like i don't think i ever met anyone that ran for president before so then you know how you kind of think like what would i ask and then For some reason this is it what's this yeah this is the moment yeah all the rest of the stuff is like okay whatever but yeah oh man gotcha i have nothing else but thank you awesome tulsi thank you any closing thoughts i um it's great to be here and we've covered a lot and there's a lot more to come yeah awesome well um Obviously thanks for coming on i know we try to make this happen for a little bit i'm glad you could kind of finally get on here and and thanks for your service in the united states government of course but also obviously thanks for your service as a soldier as a leader thanks for putting your life on hold and your life at risk to defend the freedoms and the way of Life that we hold sacred and the same goes to the rest of the military personnel out there around the world on those forgotten barricades on the front lines of freedom thank you for defending us and to our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and emts and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service and all the first responders Thank you for defending us as well here at home and to everyone else out there well for one thing ask yourself is today the day is today the day and live your life thinking that today could be the day and that means remember some of that aloha spirit that tulsi talks about treat people with aloha treat them with Respect and compassion and try and help out other people and you do that you do all those things by first putting your own ego in check listen more than you talk praise more than you punish stand up for what you believe in while respecting other people's beliefs too and remember always remember that we are stronger together And until next time this is tulsi and echo and jocko out

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