An insider speaks up about Hasidic female head-shaving & more

They reinforced this cutting the hair for women. . .

My mother cut my hair on with a scissor. . .

I felt so sorry for him; my child, raised in a Satmar house, how is he gonna  survive in this world that he wants to be in! I told everybody my son is OTD. I didn't  hide it.

There was no shame in it. I still have this joyfulness about. .

.  I'm in love with Yiddishkeit. If anybody would have this  attitude they wouldn't leave.

Wild horses couldn't drag me out of this no matter what temptation, you know what I mean? ! Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Pearl A Satmar Hasidic woman, who spoke to me on a lovely Chanukah day from her Williamsburg Brooklyn home.

In Part 1 we talked about the marriage customs in this community, and in Part 2 we'll talk about the custom of Shaving the head, about those who leave the faith, keeping faith and more. [Music] Before we jump in, I just want to set us up a little bit by explaining where Pearl comes from, because some of the things we'll talk about today apply specifically to her subsect of Orthodox Judaism. Within Orthodox Judaism or Hasidic Judaism there are many sects, stripes and types, it is not a monolith and the Satmar Hasidic Community,  or the Williamsburg Hasidic communities, have often  been of the most misunderstood and closed off to the world.

Most of the voices we hear about this community come from the outside or those who have left and this makes Pearl a very unique very special opportunity to see and hear from someone who is the very heart of hearts. She doesn't give you the answers that you might expect or want to hear rather how it is at the very heart of this community. The custom that married women shave their heads, which was brought to the world's attention with a Netflix show  Unorthodox, where it was dramatized in a scene where a young woman's head is shorn, is an example of a custom that isn't practiced by all Hasidic groups, but among Satmar Hasidim it is generally the accepted practice.

I do want to frame this conversation by saying that when a woman in say, Hasidic Williamsburg, gets married her head will be covered at all times and her head covering will become extremely important for her as a vehicle to signify status & beauty in the community. Different head covering signify different things some of them being considered more modest, more pious, while others are considered perhaps more fancy and more modern and so because the head covering is so very important, and worn at all times, whether a woman does or doesn't have hair under her head covering, might not be the central concern. And so I really wanted to talk to Pearl about it.

And I asked her to watch the clip from the Netflix show. After she saw, it we talked but generally, the focus of our conversation wasn't so much on why the custom was practiced, but rather on the experience of the practice itself. Pearl I want to ask you about women's clothing and modesty because this is.

. . especially I want to talk about head covering because this is something that I think is hard to understand.

Before we talk about the show Unorthodox and how they portrayed this scene let's put on the record that Hasidic women in this community - this is not all. . .

this is not Chabad for instance - but in this community when they get married their head is shaved. And they keep their head shaved. And they cover their heads - a turban at home right?

-Yes. -And in the street you put on a head covering oh oh yeah right my head covering is a wig Yeah. my head covering was a scarf right Right, a tichel (scarf or kerchief) In Unorthodox, there is a scene where Esty the main character after she gets married her head is shaved and she has beautiful hair that and then she's bald and she's crying this is.

. . you're laughing - this is one of the most shocking scenes that I hear from people about all the time.

What was your reaction? Well, personally speaking cutting my hair the day after my wedding was the greatest good thing that ever happened to me because if I wouldn't have had my hair cut I would have yanked it out by the roots. Really?

My hair was so bad. But anyways I want to go back to that Unorthodox business, okay? So first of all, the day after the wedding the mother cuts the daughter's hair - without an audience!

You saw that audience? -Yeah, yeah the little girls. .

. the girls standing around. .

. and this. .

. the kallah, Esty, the bride, has this horrified look on her face and she's building herself up in this hysteria. .

. that never happens by us. We know this is going to happen.

It's not a new thing. -How does the scene different from how in Unorthodox. .

. ? Every child that grows up in our home sees their mother without hair.

None of the mothers have hair, none of the aunts have hair, none of the. . .

you see this from when you're able to see. So we grew up with the knowledge that married women cut their hair and wear a sheitel (wig), they wear a tichel (scarf) a turban. .

whatever you want. Okay? -And when it's your turn, what happens?

It's a matter-of-fact thing. Your mother comes and she does it. .

. Your mother comes and your husband is usually in shiel (synagogue) in the synagogue. .

. -right and my mother cut my hair only with a scissor. She says - I wanna get you  used to it gradually, I'm cutting all your hair off, but with a scissors, and I was  expecting this to happen, no surprise here.

What were you thinking while it happened? -Can't wait for this to happen because I want to get rid of my hair. Any wig is going to be an  an improvement over.

. . -What was with your hair?

-Oh, very bad hair, very bad. Frizzy? -You know in those days what everybody was wearing beehives?

-Yeah, yeah my hair was my hair fainted. It was flat. Even for the wedding I couldn't get it to look nice.

You couldn't tease it? l mean look at me now. Do you think I want  to go around with 75-year-old hair that's already half my head is half bald, let's say?

Isn't this  better? This is very beautiful. -Isn't this better?

Okay, so a wig is fantastic. Now some women are more. .

. like you were. .

more. . .

how do you say more frum Uh, religious? -they're more. .

. ? -they're more pious?

Yes yes. So they wear only a kerchief for a head covering. But this is certainly not.

. . this is certainly not painful.

It's certainly not a sacrifice. You're saying when you're wearing  just a kerchief and you don't have fake hair to adorn your face then it's more of a sacrifice. -You have to have a beautiful face.

-You have to have a beautiful face for a kerchief. You have to have a beautiful face anyways but for the kerchief it really. .

. it matters. -I want to still discuss the experience.

. . -It was a non-experience.

It was a non-experience. With your daughters also? -Yeah. 

-Did they not have beautiful hair, none of them? Some of them had beautiful hair, yeah, but so what? What is happening.

. . ?

-We didn't make a big deal out of it. Yeah. It's not a big moment.

-It's not a big moment, it's not a big deal. Every once in a while somebody will get a piece of jewelry, like compensation, you know. -A gift.

A gift, yeah. Everybody expects this, this is. .

. this is. .

. what we do. So why?

Why is it done? -400 years ago this cutting the hair. .

. there was a big meeting of all the sages. .

. I don't know exactly the  details. .

. I'm sorry I'm such an ignoramus in some ways. -No this is I think a topic that is largely muddled in its history.

There's nothing muddled. -Nothing muddled. -No, it's not muddled.

It's. . .

I'm muddled. -You're muddled. No, you're very clear, go on.

-And they reinforced this cutting the hair for women. This was reinforced. Now I think that this meeting of the sages took place in the Austro-Hungarian Empire so you find by the Polish and the Russians and the Lithuanian they don't cut their hair.

Of course they  cover their hair because that's a Shulchan Aruch (Rabbinic law) So why covering the hair? -A married woman, a divorced woman, and a widowed woman must cover her hair. She must advertise her status.

-Through her head covering. -She's not a girl. It leads to the question of: but her wig will often look just like her hair?

Well, it's not supposed to. It's not supposed to. -Well, your wig doesn't look like a gray.

. . So, therefore, I'm wearing a band.

See this  band? This sort of signifies that I'm married. It tells the world.

It tells our society.  This is a covering on top of a covering. My wig is a covering and now you know that.

So this is important in Judaism that that this is like advertised.  Married, widowed, divorced. Not single.

The status is advertised. -So you would say it's a Shulchan Aruch? -It's a Shulchan Aruch, yeah.

That a married, widowed or divorced woman has to cover her hair. Even if she keeps her hair -Even if she doesn't shave it. .

. Even if she doesn't shave it, it must be covered. -And shouldn't a woman be beautiful for her husband?

This sounds very Chabad (other sect) I can't even bring myself to ask this question. Why? Why does it sound Chabad?

-This whole woman needs to be beautiful for her husband. . .

-This is not Chabad. This is Hasidism. This is Judaism.

Of course, a woman has to be beautiful  for her husband! Only for her husband. So shouldn't she have hair?

-She should.  But because our boys are raised seeing their mothers and knowing  that a married woman cuts her hair, so then. .

. there's beauty besides that. You know there's other beauty.

This is not the. . .

hair is not the only beauty in a woman. -Yeah I hear that. I mean my experience when my head was shaved was like you.

. . I was never emotionally attached to my hair.

It took me a long time to start to feel like I didn't want to shave my head. -This is the way we're raised and this is the way we expect life to be, boys and girls. -So what was your reaction; you're watching Unorthodox her the head is shaved.

What are you thinking? -I'm thinking to myself: I never ever saw such a scene of crying? What's the big deal?

You know that this is  going to come. I mean you know that your mother, your grandmother, your friends, your, sisters, your everybody -- cuts their hair. What's the big deal?

And nobody does it with an audience. -what do you think the audience does to the scene First of all, it looks horrible. -It looks horrible.

-It looks horrible. Everybody's standing around and watching this person like being a geshachten (slaughtered)? She's being slaughtered over here.

And you have kids standing around and watching this? It's so. .

. inappropriate. -Why do you think they do Why did they put it in?

I mean whoever was doing this knows that it never happens to have an audience. . .

but maybe they wanted to magnify the disaster. . .

-Yeah. They were trying to create. .

. this is how outsiders see the shaving scene. -Well if this is what they're watching, of course this is what they see.

Nobody's  gonna invite them to come - come, I'll invite you when I cut my daughter's hair. Nobody does that. -We'll all cry.

We'll all cry more and more. Yeah it's. .

. hard to understand the shaving thing for outsiders. I understand it intuitively.

Our next discussion touched a much deeper nerve for Pearl and in some ways for myself, as Pearl relayed her experience when one day she learned that her then 19-year-old son Yoely was starting to leave the community. Here we use the term OTD to describe those who  leave. It is a commonly used refrain that stands for "Off the Derech" or in English, "off the faith path".

We've heard so so many stories of those who have left and their pain in their journey and I think  this is a very, very different side of the coin, the parent who's experiencing a child who leaves.  And Pearl was very forthcoming in telling about her experience -- and her son Yoely as well saw the  video and agreed to its publication. Can we talk about leaving the faith?

Because we often-- speaking of Unorthodox - we hear so many stories about people who leave the faith, who are. . .

you know. . .

telling their  story from the outside. And we don't hear the story from people on the inside. And you have -- can I say? 

Someone. . .

your son. . .

My son, my youngest son, my baby. -How old was he? -He was 19 years old.

. . When he was 19 years old he left?

-He didn't tell me anything, but one morning I wake up and I find out that he belongs to a heavy metal band, and he's the drummer. You didn't know at all? -I knew nothing.

-You didn't know he was drumming? I knew nothing. And.

. . he's dressed like heavy metal guys.

Which means what: eyeliner? -No no no. He wasn't Gothic.

He was just dressed like, you know, like they are dressed. Not Hasidic, let's put it this way. Did he shave his uh, his payos (sidecurls)?

No. No. He's still.

. . He's still doing both.

He's going out with heavy metal guys, putting on probably a  cap or something to hide his payos. And. .

. If I tell you that I was shocked is not the word. I was beyond shocked.

And devastated beyond, beyond words. Yoely and I had such a wonderful relationship. We were so intertwined.

We were so close. I'm talking about as a child, I'm not talking about him at this age. We did see that when he was about 15, 16 years old he started to withdraw.

And he stayed a lot in his own room and he didn't. . .

Let's say Shabbes by the table, he didn't talk to us. He didn't. .

. He looked unhappy, very unhappy. So we tried to get help for him, we tried to send him for therapy.

But there was no sign that there was a  religious element to this? -Never. And uh he resisted the therapy, but we pressured him so much he went for therapy, and I was at that stage of my life, when my daughters were getting married.

. . and having babies.

. . and having nausea.

. . and having all kinds of issues.

When you have married daughters that you are very very very busy with them you know. . .

I told you we all stayed together? And Yoely sort of fell through the cracks because he didn't make noise, he didn't say anything, he didn't act out, he was withdrawn. And I didn't like it and I was worried about it.

And so I tried but because he wasn't the squeaky wheel, let's put it this way. My daughters were very squeaky wheels. So when he was 19 and he changed into this clothing this hit us like a thunderbolt.

-He just. . .

you just woke up one day and he changed clothing? No, he went into the boiler room and he went outside to the guys. He changed his clothing.

. . He went downstairs into the boiler room with his Hasidic clothing, changed in the boiler room, and went outside on the street to these guys.

-And you noticed? -My daughter tells me mommy look out the window. -Your daughter lives nearby.

. . -Yeah.

Mommy look out the window. I. .

. I. .

. I just was like, you know when you don't. .

. you don't know how to react. You don't know what this is.

When he came home I asked him. Yoely, what. .

. you know -Did he come home changed? He changed in the boiler room.

Came upstairs. And I said. .

. and I mean. .

. my husband and I were so devastated. .

. We simply didn't know how to eat this. How  do you deal with it?

I didn't know anybody who has child went OTD at that time. I didn't consider him OTD yet. I considered that something happened to him that he's doing these funny things, you know?

So he told me he joined a heavy metal band. And he listens to heavy metal music and um. .

. He didn't talk about religion. He didn't talk about religion.

But. . -Were you confrontational towards him?

Never. Never. But he did.

. . you know with time.

. . I realized that this kid is completely not religious anymore.

Even though he was living at home, participating in Shabbos, participating in Yomtov (holidays) and never never had arguments at home. Never. .

. but my husband and I went to pieces. So my husband cried a lot.

And he said the entire Sefar Tehillim (book of psalms) every day. It's a two-hour business. -Wow.

-Er hut oisgezugt gantz tehillim (he recited all of Psalms) every single day. He still does to this day. Every day he says all of Tehillim?

-Is it still for Yoely? -It's for the Yoely and for a lot of other people. I.

. . I ran to Hashem.

Meaning that I gave tzedakah; charity. I prayed a lot. Very much, all kinds of different prayers for the success of my child.

. . as a Jew, you know.

And I ran around to every professional person. . .

and I have a list of them. Over 70 people who are in the field of psychology and in the field of religion. What do we do?

-What worried you the most? -I felt so sorry for him! -That what?

-I felt so terribly terribly sorry for him. My child, raised in a Satmar house, how is he gonna survive in this world that he wants to be in? He has no tools.

He has no. . .

he. . .

he's just not going to make it. . .

he's. . .

I was so afraid for him. I sat up every night. .

. he used to come home at two in the morning. I sat by the window - at those days he was using the train.

Every time the train arrived in the station over here, we live very close to the train station, I kept looking out; is Yoely coming, is Yoely coming. Two o'clock 2:30. I served him supper when he came home.

-You didn't say anything? You didn't say: Where were you. .

. ? No.

No. -So he comes home and you. .

. -And I tell him: Yoely I have supper for you. And I would talk to him.

You know. . .

-Like you would ask him how the performance went? -I sometimes would ask him where were you, where did you perform? CBGB -What does that mean?

It's a famous place. When he got to perform at CBGB he made it. -Oh really?

What did you think? "Loi U'leinu, Hashem Uracheim. " (may god have mercy).

Save me, Hashem, save my child, save my child, save my child. That was my refrain: save my child. What were you afraid was going to happen: drugs?

I didn't know. I didn't. .

. anything. Anything.

And he's going into a world that he has no knowledge of. . .

and it's a world that has. . .

that doesn't have our values. And drugs are rampant. And alcohol is rampant.

And just the kind of life that he was trying to live was so against the way he was raised. And he's never going to make it. .

. I'm so  afraid for him. .

. I was. .

. I'm still afraid for him! But he's.

. . So what happened?

-Listen. I want to tell you. I want to tell you Frieda.

I thank Hashem that he's a mensch. And he's a very  very nice person. A very decent person.

I thank Hashem that he's married to his  wife Chana, and whom I love the pieces. And I'm thankful to Hashem that  he has three little girls. And I'm thankful to Hashem that he's learning.

. . he's going for his PhD in Psychology.

. . But all of this could have been done as a  Yid (a Jew).

All of this could have been done as a as a Jew; I'm not talking about Satmar Hasidism now. -You just want him to observe Shabbos I wanted to connect to Hashem. Pearl asked me here to clarify  that she wants her son TO WANT to connect Hashem, not that she wants him to connect Hashem, but she wants him to WANT TO.

I want him to be connected to Hashem. Not to deny Hashem. -He's.

. . he has.

. . See he's safe in.

. . he has a place in the world, he has a lovely family, he has a career, it seems to me that he has.

. . You think he has it made.

-He has it made yeah, if I was. . .

-So I'm thankful for what he has. I'm very very thankful to Hashem for what he has. But what he doesn't have is what I pray for.

Do you know that after I found out what was going on with him for three years I fast that every Monday and Thursday and I beseeched Hashem to help him. -Did you. .

. did you. .

-Until I landed in the hospital. Really? -Yeah.

So I stopped. That's when I stopped.  -Malnutrition?

-Nooo. -You're laughing. Why did you land.

. . ?

I ended in the hospital. . .

I had something. Um and I'm still beseeching Hashem. For both of them; now it's the two of them, now it's the two of them.

Who? -Chana. .

. -His wife. -They have a lovely marriage.

They understand each other very well. They're very um very decent people, both of them. They're lovely and very very close with our family.

So I want him to be a Jew. I mean he is a Jew. -Of course he's a Jew.

He sees himself as. . .

-He sees himself as a Jew. They both do. But I'm talking about a believing Jew.

-A believing Jew. You know Pearl if you don't believe you can't make it happen. That is not so!

Really? Belief is not something that you're born with. I believe.

I believe. Ask me why I believe. -Why do you believe?

-Because I learned a lot0 -I see it's a matter of education is what you're saying. -It's a matter of education. I learned a lot.

And you have to be able to believe this on your own. You have to. But if you're afraid to learn, which I find secular people are: don't confuse me with the facts.

. . if you ever want to talk to secular people that don't.

. . you know they're very very very close-minded.

They think we're closed-minded. -It goes both ways. But they're very close-minded and it's like: don't tell me anything; don't confuse me with the facts.

I don't want to know about it. My son is the same way. He doesn't want to hear, doesn't want to know.

. . I had I told you about my interesting  experience with this guy in an Uber?

I shared an Uber once with a guy I thought was a yuppie? -Go on. .

. And um. .

. he heard me talking to my children. It was that sad day when the Jersey City killings occurred and he heard me talking to my children so he asked.

. . -Can you say what the Jersey City killings were?

Three - two Orthodox Jews and a Mexican helper in the store were shot down at a grocery store in Jersey City in Jersey City. So he heard me talking to my children about this and he asked me. So I asked him: are you Jewish?

He said - yes. I didn't. .

. you know. .

. you can't tell just by looking. So I had this conversation when I asked him.

. . and as we talk I asked him: is your wife Jewish?

So he says: Yes. I said: would you have married her if she wasn't Jewish? And he said: No.

So I asked him Why. I don't know. Doesn't know.

So he says: but I made a bris, I made a circumcision for my baby. But I regret it he tells me. I said: So why did you make the circumcision, why did you make the bris?

He says I don't know. So I told him: you look like an educated person. You got married to a woman that you wouldn't have married if she wasn't Jewish.

You made a bris for your child. And you don't and you did these things? Why did you this?

Educate yourself. Find out why you did this. He says NAH.

You have to believe. I told him: don't believe. Don't believe.

Don't believe, but educate yourself! Find out. You did these things for a reason and you don't know why?

Find out why you did these things. So I. .

. my son doesn't want me to educate him. .

. -He doesn't want to find out. What uh.

. . what.

. . what happened with  the process of him sort of.

. . with you.

. . Okay, let me ask it this way.

Did you at any  point in his coming out and you realizing he's not religious feel like: I can't handle  this. I don't. .

. I want him out of my house? God forbid!

This is my child! -But you know. .

. you're a human being. You're suffering.

You're. . .

you're fasting. . .

It's not about me darling. It's not about me. It's not about my suffering.

I'm Jewish. I'm suffering. .

. I'm suffering for him. I'm not suffering for me.

I told everybody my son is OTD. I didn't hide it. There was no shame in it.

He used to come home, all the neighbors were outside, I never, I never never covered it up. I've never hid it. I never said.

. . I have a child that's OTD.

No. How did people react when, like, you would say. .

. Would people even have the vocabulary to talk to you about it? -Yes yes.

They ask me. . .

And you know I'd tell them. I would tell them: he's going to school. He's.

. . He used to bring his girlfriend here before they were married.

We accepted them. The entire family was so loving to them. You couldn't be otherwise because he's such a fine person.

He's such a decent person. He's such a nice person, Yoely. And he wasn't out to hurt us, But I saw that he was hurt.

Nobody leaves. . .

no child picks up and goes OTD if they're happy where they are. There has to be a reason. -So that's the journey he had to.

. . There has to be a tremendous unhappiness to leave.

Yeah. So what do you say to the  narrative from the outside that parents. .

. children. .

. often when children  leave closed communities, they're shunned. Um.

There is a factor that people are worried about the children still in the house. And also, not everybody who leaves is so nice like Yoely. Some people, some of the kids who leave, are out to hurt their parents.

They're out to. . .

to show  their parents. . .

make their parents really miserable. And to get back at their parents. It wasn't in  my case like this.

So. But. .

. but you know what: the prevailing um. .

. the prevailing idea is now. .

. is to be welcoming to these children. Don't throw them away.

Don't throw them out. Be loving. -In your time it wasn't that way?

I personally didn't know too many people  whose children left. We are talking about 20 years ago, right? -With Yoely?

-Yeah. -I'm talking about when you were. .

. when you were a young woman. .

. -You never heard of such a thing. -No?

People weren't leaving? -No. Why not?

-If they left they left quietly, they went out of the. . .

I mean, I personally I  don't know anybody. . .

they would just leave and never come back. -Why do you think it's become more prevalent? Or more obvious?

Do you think it's. . .

? -It's more prevalent. -You think it's more prevalent?

-Yes. Why do you think it's more prevalent. -I have my theories.

I have my theories, um. . .

I'm a little reluctant to talk about it because. . .

it's not going to make me popular. You can try. We can edit it out.

My theory is that. . .

we take our. . .

we take our Hasidis and our Yiddishkite so for granted, that we don't. . .

that we become. . .

it becomes like by rote. You know there's too much. .

. there's too much. .

. -By rote and not enough meaning? There's not enough excitement.

There's not enough. . .

um. . .

joyousness. Joyfulness. There's not enough like basically yes.

We don't do that enough with our children. -I think it's happening more, that's my observation. More than in my childhood, I'm seeing.

. . -What.

-Attempts at joyfulness and then then you know. . .

It's happening more? -Yeah. Attempts at joyfulness? 

-Yes because I think I'm not the only chuchim (wise-guy) around here, you know. And other people have caught on. I mean,  educators have probably caught on, you know.

But for example when I was growing up, my parents. . .

the prevailing attitude in the house was: it's so good to be a Jew. There was an excitement. .

there was a love for Yiddishkeit (Judaism). My father especially put that into us. There was a a.

. . everything about Yiddishkeit was exciting.

And so. . .

And there was a lot of happiness about it. I still have it. You know  what I mean?

I still have this joyfulness about it. I'm in love with Yiddishkeit. And really Torah people are really in love with the Torah.

We have a loving relationship with  Hashem and the Torah. We are in love with it. Somewhere along the way, we didn't give this over to the next generation properly.

Because if anybody would have this attitude, they wouldn't leave. Wild horses couldn't drag me out of this no matter what temptation! You know what I mean?

Why? Because I'm happy. I'm fulfilled in this.

. . in this.

. . milieu.

In this Torah life. -What would you say first and foremost fulfills you? The knowledge that I have a place in  this world.

I know where I came from. I know what I'm doing here. And what my purpose  in life is.

And I know where I'm going. Your purpose in life is? -To be what I am.

This is Hashem is guiding my purpose in life, and whatever I am doing is the will  of Hashem. And this is my purpose. You know?

So. . .

so, when you know, there  isn't this confusion. There isn't this um choices that people contemporary people think  if only they would try hard enough they would be rich. If only they would try hard enough  they would succeed.

-Yeah, there's an issue where everything is supposed to be possible. You can be anything. You should try to be anything.

You could try, but if you don't succeed understand that this is what is meant for you. Aha. There's an element of acceptance to your personal.

. . -Yes, yes.

Very much so. Very much so. And acceptance, and also a satisfaction.

It's not only acceptance. Acceptance comes with satisfaction. I accept and I'm satisfied that this is what Hashem wants for me, and this is what he wants me to be, this is what he wants me to have.

. . You don't have to have extremely glamorous.

. . like you don't need to have extremely glamorous celebrations and uh.

. . Let's say I do?

And sometimes I get and sometimes I don't. There's an element of. .

. of. .

. enoughness with you. I think that's the key to your.

. . This is.

. . "Hasemeach B'chelkoi".

What does it say in the Mishnah? Who is rich? He who is happy with his lot.

This is. . .

so you know. . . 

the Torah gives us every single step of the way a way to live. It really, really. .

. The Torah was given to the Yiden (Jews). Yes?

But it is also . . .

It's also a way for the whole world to live. They don't have all the Mitzvahs that a Jew has, but also a way of life that's for everybody. Now.

. . when we were forged as a nation by Har Sinai (Mount Sinai) by divine revelation in the world.

Hashem didn't just say you're a nation and go out there with the Torah and figure it. . .

No.  He gave us a manual. An owner's manual when he created us as a nation, yes?

When he manufactured us as a nation, he gave us an owner's manual. Which is the Torah. -Which is the Torah.

Now which person, let's say, who owns a car and gets an owner's manual and defies what the manual says "oh I'm not going to have an engine checkup when the manual says. I'm not going to have an oil change when the manual says. " That person is an idiot.

You have a manual for a reason. For a purpose. So that your car can work well.

So Hashem made us into a nation gave us an owner's manual, and we are so happy with this owner's manual because now we don't have any. . .

we know what to do. We're not left to our own devices to try to figure this out. And the Torah was given three  thousand.

. . over three thousand years ago.

To over. . .

to several million people. This is the only nation in the entire universe that says that Hashem spoke to us in front of 15 million people approximately, okay. There are different versions of the amount.

But there were millions, okay? And then we spent 40 years in the desert learning this, right? -Right.

-40 years alone only this nation with Moses teaching us the Torah. All of these people transmitted this to their children, saying: I was there and I heard Hashem speak. Now we are three thousand.

. . over three thousand years away from that.

But that transmission has been so perfect to this generation, and so  potent, that in our travels, in our long history, whole communities of Jews would  give up their life rather than kissing the crucifix and going home. People died al-kiddish Hashem (in god's name) with their wives and children for the sake of Hashem. Why?

Because that wasn't. . .

this wasn't a fairy tale that we got the Torah at Har Sinai (Mount Sinai). This was a true  transmission that really we have in our DNA. And you can't deny it because the transmission we have all the steps from that transmission.

And the people who transmitted the Torah to this day. So it's it is so powerful, and so potent, that anybody that decides they don't  want. .

. they want to throw this away. .

. What? You can't.

. . you can't understand.

-It's not that I can't understand this. I have to understand, because I see it. Not only by my children but by so many secular Jews.

But you don't know what you're doing. -You think? -You don't know what you're doing.

Educate yourself. Find out when you throw something away. .

.  find out what are you throwing away. You know what it means to throw away Shabbos?

-Yeah, I hear you. Shabbes is very beautiful. I get emotional when I think about Shabbes.

Shabbes is a gift. Hashem gave it to us as a gift. You know when you tzind lecht (light candles) the entire atmosphere changes.

It's palpable. The entire atmosphere. .

. the same house the same furniture. The same furnishings.

the entire. . .

I see everything looks Shabbes'dig now. How can you give up something like that? -I mean Shabbes is very beautiful but I think there are also times Shabbes is boring and Shabbes is grueling.

. . -How is shabbes grueling?

I don't know. . .

Sometimes you just, you don't want to do Shabbes. You don't. .

. I don't know. .

. It. .

. it is a lot of work. And you have to.

. . It's not always beautiful.

-Do you understand what a gift Shabbes is? I have to educate myself. -Shabbes is a tremendous.

. .  besides the spiritual aspect of Shabbes.

. . the physical aspect of Shabbes; when  you turn everybody and everything off and you rejuvenate physically.

. . let's talk about physicality, okay?

Not spirituality, but physicality. You eat the most delicious foods. You spend time with family.

You spend time with friends. You spend time reading. .

. let's say you enjoy reading without any distractions. Without.

. . And you're doing the will of Hashem every single minute.

It's. . .

it's. . .

it's beyond. . .

it's beyond explanation. You always felt this way about shabbes? -No.

Noas a child that was bored many times. And sometimes Shabbos was very long. But as I matured.

. . I mean you don't expect a child to grow up with that I'm telling you now.

Okay, this comes from maturity. And as I grew into yiddishkite, and as I learned, I did a lot of learning on my own. .

. Not the Talmud that you asked me about. You're not allowed to.

. . women are not allowed to study the Talmud itself but you mean you.

. . there's a lot of things you can learn otherwise.

- A tremendous amount of learning So. . .

and you know. . .

and as my age  wisened me up, right? -Wisened, I see. Yeah, so then you get to see.

. . you get to see what.

. . you get to see what the Hokey Pokey is all about.

I see. And it's a sweet Hokey Pokey. Ah.

The best. When I first approached Pearl I had been working in the Hasidic Community on the sort-of down-low for nine years I definitely wasn't very trusted in the community and I had very very little success in reaching an audience with my work. When I approached people in the community to ask them for help with creating content, people were very reluctant.

They were very afraid, they were very nervous about being recorded, especially with someone who left. But when I contacted Pearl her approach was: What can I do to help you. And the video that we first filmed, which was a tour of her home, was the first time that something I put out got a lovely reaction and so so much wonderful engagement.

And so, I had to ask Pearl what prompted her to be so very kind to me even when she had no idea that what she would do for me would go so far. From when I contacted you, I was looking for someone to show me their house, you were so good to me. You immediately said: Frieda, I want to help you.

Right? -Yes, yes. -You did.

. . I didn't I didn't even have to like.

. . you were really doing it for me.

-Yes. -How come you were so good to me? First of all.

. . I have a soft spot for OTD people.

Right? And then I'd love to help people. I bemoan the fact that I'm not in a position to help people  as much as I would like to.

And why shouldn't I help you? -You know until I had that interview  with you, I would put out a video and get like, I don't know, 300 views in a month. I was absolutely floored.

. . it was such a positive experience.

The other thing is that I love to speak to  OTD people. I would love to. .

. I would love to I would love to make them understand that they should get their own education. You don't know what a treasure we have!

-You know through you I have learned so much. And one of the things that I got to see is an incredibly rich life. I'm always looking for ways that women build beautiful lives in unconventional -- like I'm not even.

. . -The feminist in you.

. . -The feminist in me.

I'm not impressed with women who achieve career success - that climbing the same competitive ladder doesn't impress me. My feminism is women who have dynamic lives in unexpected ways. It's been educational.

-You're so welcome. -Yeah, I had such a nice time talking to you. Thank you and thank you for the cheesecake, we're gonna have more. 

-Yeah, at least you had cheesecake and not like last time , no kugel. -I had Kugel. I'm still salivating over that Kugel.

Well that concludes my Chanukah time visit to Hasidic Williamsburg. I want to again thank Pearl so much for inviting me into her home. And I want to thank all of you for your  engagement and your encouragement - this project takes an enormous amount of time,  effort, energy and your support goes such a long way in helping me continue to do this.

So please keep sharing your thoughts in the comments, like, subscribe, spread the word,  and so on. Thank you and bye-bye.