Pope Leo on media and evangelization. Full 2012 interview.

[Music] In 2012, Catholic News Service asked then Father Provost to read the full text of the intervention he had prepared for the Senate of Bishops on the new evangelization. Afterward, we posed questions related to the themes of his presentation. While the questions have been abbreviated, his answers are included in full.

the the how you do this I think is is a very complex question with a more complex answer. The Senate itself tried to address this. I think most people in the church recognize today the need for the media, the need that the church has to get the message out to people.

So, so this isn't meant as sort of a blanket elimination of of the media in terms of the usefulness that uh that the instruments of modern communication can have for the church and for announcing the message. But one thing that was repeated numerous times in the cinnid was that the whole concept of the new evangelization needs to begin with a personal encounter with Jesus Christ. People have to in some way be led or invited into an experience where they can rediscover what it means to have faith, what it means to have a a relationship with Jesus Christ, what it means to recognize that God is indeed a part of our lives.

St. Augustine would say that God is closer to us than we are to ourselves. But the reality in society today is that uh people have become alienated from the God who does dwell within us.

And and so to help people rediscover the presence of God, to rediscover the meaning of a relationship with Jesus Christ is a is a big challenge. But I think that's what the starting point is. Certainly the the church has recognized after the experience of the past 50 years that we should not be trying to create spectacle, if you will, theater just to make people feel uh interested in something which in the end is very superficial and uh not profound, not meaningful in their lives.

the uh young man who spoke at the Senate, the the catechist, the 23-year-old catechist from Rome talked about this and the need for preparation of priests, which I touch upon in in my own intervention. Uh certainly what liturgy should be about, what faith should be about is somehow coming in contact with that mystery if you will, the mystery of God who is love, God who dwells within us. God who is indeed present in humanity and who's revealed himself through Jesus Christ.

The way to to discover God is not really through spectacle. And I think many times people have been uh I I maybe misled. People have have gone looking for God in ways that that in the end have been proven to be um sidetracked and not really essential in terms of discovering the mystery, if you will, the the truth about who God is and and what experience of living a life of faith is about.

I I make reference especially to the time of the fathers of the church because of of an Augustinian perspective and I think also a rediscovery that the church has made since the time of the council um with respect to the value that the study of the fathers of the church has the uh Vatican document the the documents of of the second Vatican council um all through Pope Benedict today we see constant references to St. Augustine and to many other fathers of the church and and we do believe we're convinced that the fathers of the church have a great deal to contribute because of a number of parallel or or similar circumstances that the church lived in the first centuries that the church is living today with uh perhaps the the tendency to look at the secular world, if you will, what we call the secular world today for all the answers and and a discovery that uh all the answers are not there and that people are really looking for something else and that the searching for meaning in life ultimately the searching for explanations for answers for understanding life and death for understanding uh who we are as human beings and what our life is all about that the fathers do indeed have a great deal to say to us. So the reference there I think is from my perspective very much centered on or or growing out of a a conviction that the fathers of of the church do have a lot to offer us.

You could go on from there also. I think that uh beyond the reference to St. Augustine and the encounter between uh the emperor and the pirate and uh looking at the kinds of of u myths that society can promote.

The kind of attitudes that that can fool people into thinking that this is what you're really looking for when in reality it can be very superficial or even an outright lie. Falsehoods that uh convince people that this is the way to go. when when people discover the truth or are helped to understand what is really true and meaningful in life that uh that many things do change in fact and and so again I think the experience of the study of the fathers of the church as one important part of of the theology of of our Christian faith uh has a lot to offer to the world today.

I I'd have to give that more thought. I don't think that turning away from the media would be the answer. And I don't even know to what extent that's possible.

It it happens that just uh recently I was reading about a contributor to a major news network in the United States who herself doesn't even own a television set which is very interesting and that she works in the field but she understands it seems that uh certainly you cannot just take at face value what's offered in today's society by mass media and and I think uh personally that the answer rather than turning away is in the area of formation. How do we teach people to become critical thinkers? How do we teach people to understand that uh not everything you hear or everything you read should be taken at face value?

And how do we come to give people the formation that they need to read something or to hear something and to be able to discern, if you will, to understand that uh that underlying the message that's being communicated is a very different message or or a very subtle message that uh has severe consequences for for the future of of society. let's say that that can can or cannot be understood as a part of a much bigger picture if you will. Um, I began reflecting on this topic myself because of having lived outside the United States now for a number of years.

And then when I would go back to the United States and perhaps just watch a TV show at random or visiting friends or relatives, seeing the change that has taken place in in the kinds of content that are in sitcoms that are spoken about uh on your regular TV programs, the even on news shows, the kinds of uh messages that that uh seem to be portrayed and the slant that is taken at times in whichever direction the kinds of even pmical uh argumentation that that is presented on TV in the United States following through with that I think uh it's not just the United States we find it a lot in the western world and it changes from place to place depending where you are uh after giving my intervention an Italian came to speak to me about it and and said well he didn't agree with what I said for example the mention of abortion he said we don't talk about that in Italy and I said well maybe you in Italy, but we certainly do in other parts of the western world. But then he came up himself with other examples of how the media has been used in Italy to present certain kinds of arguments, certain political questions that uh in the same way if you control the media, you can uh at least partially control the way people are thinking because that's the message that people hear constantly. So, so again, I think our real challenge is in formation.

Our challenge is in preparing people to become critical thinkers and to understand what's going on in the in the world around us today. I I think that again uh looking at several things that were pointed out during the senate uh the answer has to be multiaceted. Of course the question about rhetoric that I bring up I think that uh today the formation that we give to future priests is extremely important.

the the preaching that is done has to be done well. uh this too was pointed out by some of the senate fathers at times half inest but I'm sure very seriously in every occasion where reference was made to the Sunday homaly and uh someone said maybe we should even examine ourselves how are we preaching and what are we saying and what's not so much the content in terms of the message but the way that we do it are we able today to reach out to people and convince them of the message so so there's a very important question there It's been acknowledged that most people today receive their so-called ongoing katakesus or ongoing education in the faith in those 8 to 10 minutes 15 minutes of the Sunday homaly and that's it for the week. So that places a great challenge before those of us who who are called to stand up in the in the pulpit and to announce the good news.

Um obviously there's a challenge that has been spoken about of the need to organize programs of adult education of ongoing kateesus preparation for the sacraments and follow up after the sacraments at all stages of life. But uh there again I think the church in every country or within every culture has to seriously ask itself how are we going to get people to come back and listen or how are we going to go out to people with the message so that they hear what it is we're trying to communicate in terms of of the teaching of the gospel the teaching of Jesus Christ and and that is a big challenge because those who are still coming to church and and there are many of course um receive those eight minutes of of a homaly, if you will, hopefully are also being introduced to that mystery that we spoke about earlier and in some way are are growing at least in the desire to know more about their faith. And and so you have one area of worker activity there, but we also have to ask ourselves, what about all those people who are leaving actively or who have just fallen away in sort of a passive way?

How do we get back to them? How do we reach out to them? Invite them in.

And there's a lot of discussion on that. I think there were some good exchanges during the Senate on this topic, but but I'm sure that there's a lot more work to do as each bishop's conference or as the church universal continues to reflect upon the challenges of the new evangelization. We need to reach out to those people as well.

And and so again, formation is uh the answer, but how do you deliver the message? How how do you deliver, if you will, the the teaching of the gospel to people, so many people who will not be there on Sunday morning to hear the the Sunday morning homaly. As a matter of fact, many people within the church recognize the value of social media, if it's used properly, of course, and the need for the church to at least have a presence there.

Um there are a number of bishops in the United States, for example, who have a page on Facebook or who are on Twitter. Um those are the two areas that I'm a little bit familiar with. I personally uh put some things up once in a while on Facebook and I'm amazed at the the uh very quick response that I receive from around the world in my case because there are Austinians and lay people connected with the Augustinian order who follow my Facebook page.

So I'll put a little piece of news up there, an invitation, a little reflection at times and and that is a way of reaching people. So so again I think the church needs to be sophisticated if you will also in terms of the use of of the social networks that uh that are available to us. It's just one more way of reaching out to people and maybe a little word, a little reflection, an invitation will be the trick.

The trick will be the way that uh we can reach out to someone and make them again reflect about their faith and and even encourage them to come back and find out more. Yes, it can be a very it is very powerful, wide reaching and can be very effective. Just as it can be damaging in the sense that again if someone does not have a discerning or critical ability to see what's there, it can also mislead someone very easily.

Certainly uh the importance of religious life throughout the history of the church I think needs to be uh appreciated and uh cannot really be underestimated. It became clear even through the work of this cinnid how how so many of the senate fathers if you will bishops those participating the senate really did acknowledge the great contribution that religious life has had throughout the history of the church especially if we look at the first evangelization if you will the whole idea of the the mission agentes as it's called uh frequently done primarily by religious who of course then established the local church in the different areas and and that grew into what what we know today. Since the time of the council when when all religious communities were invited to rediscover their founding charisms, if you will, to rediscover the roots of their lives and to reform, to renew their our lives.

A lot has gone on indeed. I think a lot of very good things have come out of that renewal process. But as always, not all has been perfect.

There have been some significant challenges to religious life. One of the things that that some of us religious who were in the senate wanted to address was the very question of how the church is challenging us today and how we need to also be receptive and responsive in the renewal of our lives to serving the needs of the church which is why we were founded uh each congregation or each order in a particular way at a particular moment in history. There's certainly a lot to be um gained from from re restudying if you will revisiting the whole history of religious life.

The uh the consecrated life I think as we talk about the new evangelization has also been acknowledged in terms of the charisms we've received the gifts that have been given to the different religious orders congregations and how we can better place them at the service of the church. The whole idea of mission is is one area, but the contribution and the commitment of religious communities to education for example has also been recognized and and certainly the church in so many different schools, universities that uh are serving pe members of the church and others throughout the world to a great extent are because of religious congregations and orders, you know, the work we're doing. So the uh the presence of religious life in the senate was significant um by the rules of the senate.

I think it's a privilege that we have but it's a recognition that the church does in fact uh see that the presence of in our case 10 religious general superiors that were part of the cinnid that that there is a voice there that there is uh something that the church recognizes and wants to hear from you know in terms of of ourselves who are there representing in effect the whole union of superiors general all the different religious communities and a number of women religious who were invited did and also were able to speak as uh official listeners if you will ali during the senate. Uh I think much was uh gained at the in the experience of the senate by listening to these different leaders. I didn't count them but the number of the bishops who were there are also members of religious congregations.

the Franciscans they had a significant number um but there were Celisians Augustininians um members of different religious communities there as well so the formation of religious life and the charismatic gifts as they're called in the church in addition to the hierarchical gifts were part of of the whole reflection there yeah depending on historical periods I would say there have been times when when there was greater harmony at times when perhaps there were some tensions um tension I don't mean that in a bad sense I think tension is a good thing but in terms of what the gifts of religious life are and what the gifts in terms of uh the local church may be and the way that the two have worked together. Um yeah, the the history of that is fascinating. Certainly, this was my first cinnid.

However, listening to several senate fathers who have participated in a number of senates, they did point out that they believe this was the most harmonious experience, the the the best experience of a recognition of the presence of religious life within the life of the church that they had had in during a senate within whatever the past in their case they were talking about the past 20 years, let's say. So I certainly see that as positive. I think there there are a number of things that could be said about why during the past 50 years religious life at times was not acknowledged in the way that uh some of us would certainly believe it should have been acknowledged.

There have were problems at times but uh I think to make a globalization of a statement you know a universal statement about religious life is all this or all that is not helpful. Um there were individuals or perhaps at times groups within particular religious congregation or in particular areas where where the uh tensions that exist or even conflict at times were problematic. This has also been a time when new gifts have been given to the church.

I think we need to acknowledge the the many blessings that have come to the church through what we call the new ecclesial movements. And uh with the growth of these new movements and the gifts that they've had, I think uh some people at times have seen them as as uh perhaps taking responsibility or leadership in an area which traditionally had been part of the work of religious life. And I think even there we're coming to a point today where we're recognizing the need and the challenge of harmonizing in a much uh much more uh um let's say a much healthier way in a in a more realistic way the different gifts that are offered to the church through these diverse experiences of uh religious life of the ecclesial movement and of course of the hierarchical gifts in terms of coordinating the work of the church with together with the bishops and together with the gifts that we've all received.

So there have been a lot of changes taking place in that. But but I see the the movement that's taking place as a very positive thing. A couple of interventions during the Senate address this directly and I thought that was very positive rather than than kind of closing one eye or pretending that the tensions hadn't been there or just ignoring one or the other dimension.

Uh we found that even in the the final propositions that the harmonious understanding of the fuller nature of the church with these various dimensions of participation of the ley of the ecclesial movements of religious life or consecrated life of uh secular institutes of the contemplative life which was also highlighted during the senate several times and of course of the hierarchical gifts expressed primarily through the bishops the leadership that the bishops offer the church. All these uh various aspects need to be brought together and need to work together for the good of the church and for the fulfillment of the mission of the church. Um I would say very broadly first of all consecrated life if I can use that expression is uh not primarily about the work that religious do but rather about the total consecration of one's life to God which I think is different from the movements even though within some of the movements you do have people living a kind of consecrated life and and there's a gray area there, if you will, an overlapping, but generally speaking, even within the movements, once you have people beginning to make what we call public vows within the church, you're really moving into the area of consecrated life.

And while on a jeritical level, everything hasn't been set into category A and category B. I think quite clearly that the special gift that consecrated life is to the church is precisely who we are as religious in professing our lives through the evangel evangelical councils poverty chastity and obedience as a sign of the kingdom as a sign of the world to come and and I think that is different in a significant way from what you have in many of the movements where you have people primarily lay people working in one or another area of the life of the church and certainly offering their gifts of service to the church but uh would be seen much more in terms of the kinds of e activity of preaching the gospel, living the gospel which of course religious do as well which priests do as well. So we're all kind of sharing in the mission, but the the particular dimension of the profession of vows and the total consecration of one's life to God in and through different kinds of community experiences.

I think I think there's a definite contribution that religious life still has to make to the church and to the world today. You also find although here too there's a lot of gray areas but but frequently when we think about moving if you will to the margins moving out to those difficult areas where the church needs to be in in terms of living out the gospel message that that frequently it's um men and women of consecrated life who are the ones to go into the daur region or into South Sudan or into very troubled areas where you wouldn't even want to ask a family to go to because of the risks involved. And so often it has been uh consecrated life that's been on the margins, if you will, reaching out to those people in difficult areas so that the gospel message will be heard uh in in those difficult kinds of situations.

Again, you can't make blanket statements about these things, but but I see that uh that there's a service that each one of these different kinds of ecclesial life can offer to the world today. the um the the Senate itself taking place around the 50th anniversary of the Second Vatican Council and uh with Pope Benedict's decision to open the year of faith, I think I think there are some significant um coincidences, if you will, deliberate choices being made in reality that that need to be highlighted. I think the the deliberate commitment renewal of a commitment on the part of of all of the Senate fathers to renew the ongoing implementation of Vatican council too of uh promoting the life of the church in the world today uh to continuing ecumenical dialogue um are some of the areas that uh are both challenges and yet significant commitments in terms of of what went on during the senate.

We've spoken about the presence of religious life as a part of that. I think that uh within the message that was given prepared for the end of the senate to all the people of God as it is addressed. It was a very joyful, uplifting message, but also very realistic recognizing the uh challenges that the church has to face in a society that at least in some areas is becoming uh more and more um deafened to the message of the gospel to the presence of God.

Some of those challenges really need to be taken on. And yet I think that the the optimistic spirit that the hopefilled spirit that was a part of the Senate really is something that needs to be communicated effectively to the people who are who are listening, the people who are already with us, if you will. And that together we all need to take very seriously our commitment which comes from baptism that that all of us together have a responsibility to share the good news, to share the gospel with the world around us.

In terms of experience, again, I'll come back to St. Augustine who who someone who we as Augustininians certainly appreciate and and know very well. But I would say that Augustine is one of the church fathers who very clearly spoke about experience.

And one of the reasons that uh the confessions continues to be one of the widest read books in the history of the world is precisely because of Augustine's insight into human experience. And he does a magnificent job of communicating both his own experience and what he lived and how that experience can indeed be a window, if you will, an opening to discovering a personal experience of God in human life. Human experience, he says, is is precisely where you can find God.

and and uh the humanity of Augustine is not something which leads into a kind of a personalized egoistic it's all about me and only me world but quite the opposite because of Augustine's understanding of humanity that human experience is actually the door that leads one into discovering who God is and then a movement that Augustine speaks of uh in different areas about how going into God also leads you into solidarity with other people. And that second part of of living in solidarity with others is perhaps a piece of the experience that is missing nowadays. Uh so often today in in the highly individualistic society that that people are growing up in, people think that my experience is the criteria.

Am I happy or I'm not happy? What that might really be is um do I feel pleasure or don't I feel pleasure or do I feel selfish and if I feel okay then that's all that matters and and I think that uh certainly Augustine's experience says that well that isn't enough and maybe what you're calling happiness isn't authentic happiness because you're going to lose that too and most things that people seem to describe as well why are you happy today are things that are either very superficial So, or at best uh you know important for a short period of time but that aren't going to last forever and and Augustine gives some insight into helping people understand that uh having an experience of God brings you far beyond yourself and includes that dimension of as I what I would call human solidarity of understanding the universal brotherhood, sisterhood of men and women and that how an authentic experience of happiness has to include other people and has to include being concerned about other people and and those are elements that express I think uh a very important part of the gospel message. It's not just about me and my experience of God either.

You might have people say, "Oh, I have an experience of God and I don't have to do anything else. " Well, then that's probably not an authentic experience of God because as we know from the gospels, as we know from uh the apostolic letters, if you love God, then you also need to be showing that by loving your neighbor. and and that the two go hand in hand.

And and so experience can be a wonderful tool, if you will, to help bring people into an experience of of Christ in their lives, of God in their lives. Augustine in the confessions talks about friendship, talks about family, talks about the importance of his mother, talks about his father, talks about human ambition, talks about so many different aspects of human life, and then goes on to explain how these things helped or did not help his own personal pathway to to discovering God and to discovering what is really holy about life. So, so I think that uh this openness to experience is not something that is new, but something that's being rediscovered and and that there are great treasures to be discovered there if once again people understand we're not talking about it's how I want to do it, but rather how my understanding my life can lead me into a much fuller understanding of what humanity is about, what human life is about, and therefore what the encounter with God is about.

It is precisely when one sits down and begins to reflect upon those ultimate questions that a choice is available to us. And and I think that uh someone who if you will rationally and logically wants to embrace some kind of atheism, if we can call it that, if any true atheists do exist, um that's a rather pessimistic and dark way to understand what life is about. And I think that the wisdom of of the fathers, the wisdom of the church through centuries, the wisdom and the universal dimension of if you will religious experience shows that uh there there is much more to life than that.

And that as a matter of fact, it isn't all dark. And that when one comes to discover this present mystery that um it is something which goes far beyond anything that that uh the superficial world of spectacle can offer to us and and I think that uh the wisdom of the ages if you will along with the experience that we can indeed live the peace the uh the true sense of happiness happiness that that those who do search for God in their lives uh the the happiness that that they can find is is indeed a gift that uh shows us what real truth is about. That shows us what real life is about and gives us an understanding to what what the meaning of life is.