Venom: The Last Dance is a Symptom of a Greater Disease

I'm not sure how I got here has to do with Spider-Man I think hey welcome back screen Crush I'm Ryan Ary and Sony needs to stop please stop this is not working I can't take it anymore today we are going to talk about Venom the Last Dance I actually enjoyed the movie at times because you know it was so bad but guys come on the whole Spider-Man without Spider-Man franchise experiment it just has to stop I will explain why and how this movie absolutely wasted no and is dishonest to fans of this character they lied

to us and I am not happy a little later I'm going to talk to Spider-Man expert Matt singer to get his thoughts on the film but first let me explain why it's hard to see this movie as anything but a failure so when I say this movie failed let me clarify what I mean as a piece of franchise building or a comic book movie adaptation the movie sucks it's borderline insulting to real Marvel fans but it's not like it's not entertaining I mean it made me laugh because at times it was high camp like here's

an early example in the film there's like a very early scene where it's in the trailer so it's not really a spoiler where Eddie meets this Mexican gang that has been like using dogs for dog fighting and instead of just like trying to kill Eddie right away they talk to him for like 2 minutes about the darkness within it is like a ridiculous scene but it's so bad it's good the movie is like a road trip film where you get to see Eddie and Venom in like different weird circumstances and when that happens it works

every time Eddie and Venom are together it is an incredible performance from Tom Hardy playing both sides of the conversation I mean if you don't know Tom Hardy performs Venom with an earpiece of his recording in his head so he is reacting live to himself on screen we are Venom no oh yeah we we Venom but then when the movie cuts to the scientist at area 55 it gets so boring are you yawning in the middle of this while I'm breaking it down like the Juno Temple plays this scientist right and her character is introduced

with this nightmare from her childhood the tease is a really haunting backstory but honestly that backstory or her appears so little in the film it felt more like the shop teacher story line in South Park oh Richard's beautiful beautiful yes yes yes but I will say there is a montage at the end where Eddie is reflecting on his past with Venom and it's genuinely hilarious because it is so out of place and attempts to be sappy like in the Montage he's remembering moments that occurred just a few minutes earlier in the film and that really

made me laugh so I don't fully hate this movie or this franchise I mean I love the character of Venom and especially the Venom horse and that is why we designed these Venom parody shirts at our merch store we have my little symbiot bully Parker Dirty Dancing and my favorite denim the links for those are below so while the movie is like dumb and fun in Parts at times I think these people misunderstand the Venom franchise like this is not a series of movies that ever made me care about the character of Eddie Brock oh

right well that is good to know I mean I thought the first movie for the like was incredibly boring until the pair of them finally bonded and we hear this line on my planet I am kind of a loser like you so that set up this messed up buddy cop dynamic in the first film which then became the story of two fussy bachelors in part two get out take your stuff this is my house this film tries to be sentimental and sweet but it just doesn't work because we've never seen that side of these characters

Eddie hates the Venom symbiot he always has but this movie like Madam Webb and morbius this feels like a movie that was made by committee that's more interested in playing Studio politics than telling an actual story what do you mean by that well everyone knows that Sony tried to set up their own Cinematic Universe of Spider-Man characters with Amazing Spider-Man 2 but they crammed so much on that movie that it sank at the box office so Sony decided to essentially lease the character back to Marvel Studios but instead of just like letting Marvel Studios make

money for them Sony still tried to set up a villain verse with Venom as the star now the first Venom movie made almost a billion dollars which only embolden Sony Executives to think that anything even tangentially related to Spider-Man would print money for them but Venom succeeds as a franchise because he actually has his own comic book spin-off series he is massively popular and there are tons of great stories from creators that they can draw from to make these films honestly at times I wish that first Venom movie would have bombed so we would have

been spared future setups like this I'm not sure how I got here has to do with Spider-Man I think what the is this are you kidding me then you know of course they gave us morvus and Madame web which you know seemed like it was intended to be some multiversal glue between spider characters you know but instead and when you take on the responsibility great hour will come and then in venom 2 in no way home it looked like Sony was setting up a true multiversal Crossover with the MCU and then there was that little

Venom symbiot left behind at the bar and then that Venom symbiot was promptly snatched up at the start of this movie with Venom even saying that he hates the Multiverse I know Matt has some feelings on this we're going to talk about later but honestly this is so jarring and you're leading fans down One path and then ripping them the other direction it's not fair but all of that is tame compared to what they did to one of the best Marvel villains null his inclusion in this movie was borderline criminal oh sorry person that's me

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code screen crush with the link below to get an exclusive deal 60% off an incog plan it is a a great deal that you don't want to miss now back to what I was saying so you may not be familiar with null from the comics essentially he existed in the Proto Universe when all was Darkness then the celestials emerged they created light and so he went to war with the celestials you know because they woke him up you woke me from my nap now he cuts off a Celestial head that eventually becomes nowhere from Guardians

of the Galaxy null is also the creator of the Symbiotes and is a Thanos level threat in the comics for long stretches in the Venom Comics he's the character they're trying to stop from escaping his prison you know like in this movie but you know those are comic books they're told sequentially over several months and years they're supposed to have slow builds the problem with this movie is there's never a payoff for the null build now eventually in in the comics null does escape and comes to Earth even with all the other Heroes like Spider-Man

and The Avengers fighting him null easily assimilates them and then the unlikely hero Eddie Brock is able to defeat null by essentially becoming him Eddie becomes the new god of the symbiance this was a great Arc for Eddie Brock to go from villain to anti-hero to just hero so this whole movie is also about the threat of null he's coming he's coming but then he never actually arrives it's like waiting for gdau but way more boring null is a story that should have been truly Cosmic like in the MCU he would have fought the Guardians

of the Galaxy and turned all the Avengers into symbiot versions of themselves but in Sony's something to do with Spider-Man I think Universe he's a CGI dude and a CGI Goose scene who essentially exists to bolster the movie's marketing campaign this is no different than adding Spider-Man to the background in this morbius trailer this is a cheap shot that doesn't give a [ __ ] about fans and it's insulting so the movie is bad I actually don't think this movie is that bad I think it's like a 6 and a half out of 10 but

it is not a movie that I would watch in theater see it on streaming maybe then Sony would do right by Venom by introducing him into the actual Spider-Man franchise where he belongs now a little later I want to talk about Sony's Way Forward and what I think they should be setting up with Spider-Man 4 but now I want to talk to a guy who really did not like this movie at least I don't think he did Matt singer Matt you know we talked after we saw the film haven't got to read your full revieww

yet uh but can you just tell us your thoughts on Venom the last Dan well I hope the title is accurate um I think my overall impression is very similar actually to my feelings about the other two movies it doesn't seem to matter really like who directs these movies or what they're about I kind of walk away feeling the same thing which is Tom Hardy is very good in this role I enjoy seeing him I enjoy you know the whole concept of Venom as kind of this buddy comedy duo um you know that they're you

know they're like buddy cops who don't get along almost so they're just constantly bickering I think that's sort of a fun concept to use with the Venom character um in this movie they almost do like a midnight run kind of a a riff on that because they're like constantly road tripping the whole movie they start in Mexico they go to New York for some reason or at least that's where they want to go and then they're wandering they're hitchhiking they hang out with a hippie family they wind up in Las Vegas I mean it's really

scattershot and I think that's really the problem is that like in all these movies I love the main character and I dislike just about everything else around them the stories feel very disjointed and thrown together and confusing the villains are very rarely interesting at all this movie has a ton of villains they're all kind of disappointing confusing boring yeah is like your standard evil military guy screw the country I want to live like it seems like he's that guy from The Iron Giant yeah I couldn't agree more yeah and that's in some scenes and other

scenes he seems kind of a nice guy like it's almost like they they they filmed the movie and I don't know maybe they did like two different ways with his character one where he was more of you know like kind of a a sidekick to Venom or at least uh you know more ambiguous and another where he was like the main bad guy because in some scenes he's like joking with Juno Temple he seems like like her buddy and in the next scene he's like you don't work here anymore I'm in charge and it's like

well which which one is he I I from any moment to another you don't really know how he's going to react in any scene but he's not the only villain you know it's like you've also got no who is was going to ask you what were I mean I I know you're obviously a huge Spider-Man fan you wrote the book from amazing to spectacular uh about Spider-Man null maybe not be like your favorite Spider-Man villain but as I talked about I think this guy has a lot of potential that they just kind of sidelined maybe

for the next movie or something what what were your thoughts on the null Exposition opening and him as a looming threat over the film it I mean it just felt it all felt to me like and again I don't know anything about the logistics of how the movie was actually made but it really felt to me like at the 11th Hour someone said you know we've got people talking about null and we've got these monsters chasing people that don't speak and aren't again another not very interesting villain just these generic you know snarling monsters we've

got to show more of n we've got to explain who he is more and so you have these kind of like book ends at the beginning and end of the film where you see this character just sitting there he doesn't look at the camera or even in the direction of the camera his mouth doesn't move I don't think think you hear him but he's not even talking he's just a guy with white hair sitting on a on a throne talking about the void and the Symbiotes and the the Codex and all of this nonsense and

Man of Steel kind of wore me out on villains pursuing a codex that that's I mean at least those villains are like present in the film and doing things and not just sitting in a in like you know dimension X and you know he can't leave but he can send his minions wherever they want to go all over the Galaxy at any moment's notice and apparently Eddie is the only symbient that has this codex right like is the only time a symet has died with a host and all that stuff you know I want to

go back to something you touched on though and that is like what I have really enjoyed about these movies like I've been against like I was saying earlier I've been against the Venom franchise from the start because I knew it would embolden Sony to make bad movies and I was proven right but in that first movie it's so boring right up until that scene where they first Bond it and then you get this like dynamic between the two and it's then you have to remind yourself this is just Tom Hardy with an earpiece those parts

of this movie like the midnight run or road to you know where they're on the road and Eddie keeps losing his shoes and he goes to Vegas it's that was great I actually was down for that but as soon as they got to the lab and we got into the capital P plot that is when it just ground to a damn halt for me were you feeling like any momentum in the story before that like do you feel like maybe a straightup road trip movie to New York would have worked better I could see that

kind of movie working better because again you're you you you've established this Dynamic which I agree with you is very likable and very charming and Tom Hardy is very good at playing both of these characters and playing off of himself you know I think he does deserve plenty of credit for how entertaining all of all three of these movies have been because again to me it's like he's the only reason to see them in my mind like I I couldn't recommend anything else really about these movies other than it is fun to watch Tom Hardy

be a Venom and when you've got that Dynamic a road trip movie makes some amount of sense I think again the problem is here as it has been in so many of these movies is like they are totally at Sea I mean I really think that the deal between Marvel and Sony that that gave us those Tom Holland Spider-Man movies which are a lot of fun I like all of them um it really kind of doomed everything else they're making out of these movies because as soon as you put Spider-man into the MCU but none

of these other movies can be in there you have created this situation where you have all these Spider-Man quote unquote spin-offs that have nothing to do with Spider-Man Spider-Man can never appear in them the characters in those movies can't appear in uh in any of the MCU Spider-Man movies and so it's like well what purpose do they serve and so you have a situation like these Venom movies where there's no Spider-Man you know like he has nothing to do with this character um whose whole existence was created as this Counterpoint to Spider-Man as this dark

doppleganger of Spider-Man this as this and he doesn't have the symbol on his chest because maybe that's in violation of his like we never got the actual Venom suit that made him so distinct you know in but even more absolutely but even more importantly than that the whole like the whole point of Venom is as this Counterpoint to Spider-Man whether or not they're fighting the idea of Venom is as you know they joke about him being this lethal protector H but that does speak to the concept of the character whether he's you know trying to

eat Spider-Man's brains or bad guys brains he is sort of this kind of meta commentary on the way that comics in the late 80s into the early 90s were getting darker and darker and you had a character like Spider-Man who represented this kind of maybe not happier or sunnier at but at least this commitment to being like you know Do no harm be yeah and be be a little bit more of a conventional do gooder with great power comes great responsibility hero right so when you remove that I'm not saying Venom can't work without Spider-Man

obviously they've made many many Venom Comics throughout the years great Venom Comics dive into Eddie as a character yeah but you need to come up with something to replace that and other than the whole buddy Dynamic I don't think these movies ever really did and at the same time they're struggling so hard to constantly juggle sort of teasing making a universe sort of not you know the whole opening of this movie replays the post credit scene from I guess Spider-Man no way home which was you know like you know F they teased you Venom going

Venom's going you know with uh I guess the second Venom movie teased well now he's finally going to meet Spider-Man and fans everywhere are jumping for joy and then what do they do in that next post credit scene who just kidding they yanked him back to the Sony universe and uh you know they they left behind one little glob of the venom goo to it kind of like give you some sort of um hope that okay well Tom Hardy's Venom he's not going to beat uh meet Spider-Man but the Venom symbiote they left that behind

okay maybe that's something to look forward to maybe and then what do they do in this movie right they basically rcon that get rid of it immediately in the trailer they did it they got rid of that hopes now that little goober of Venom that was left behind in the MCU oh actually that was in again the Sony universe and it just constantly feels like they're trying desperately to like glom on to the MCU in any way they can and time and again they're sort of like being you know like they're walking up to that

line and then I don't know if it's literally Marvel saying no you can't do that or they're just or they know all along they can't and they're literally doing this in a in a deliberate attempt to mislead you but that's the vibe you get from these movies it's like case of the morbius trailer that's what it was they put Spider-Man one artwork behind morbius and then they tacked on that post credit scene I don't think they're actually allowed to show Spider-Man any of these films which is why Madam Webb he's in Udo the whole time

they can't don't even say the name Peter Parker right right so uh this is a very long- winded way of answering your question about you know like could a road trip movie work yes I think it could but I think there's such fundamental problems with this movie this whole franchise and all of these Spider-Man you know I always want to use air quotes spin-off movies how do you spin-off a movie where the characters didn't appear in the thing that they're supposedly spun off from they can't really refer back to those movies the characters can't go

from one to the other it it's it's like a a just a total creative nightmare um because uh you know like it's it's like a fan bargain you know it's like Mesto was involved here it's like okay the good news is you're G to get some really good Spider-Man movies Spider-Man is in the MCU he gets to interact with the Avengers he has you know you have great cast in those movies those movies are fun they all work the downside is we are going to keep making these other movies that aren't very good that don't

connect and we're just going to keep making them and making them and make you know we still have craving and who knows what happens after that it's just it's it's really exhausting and again when even when they have someone like Tom Hardy who is a good actor who is good in these movies he just seems so you know he's he's he's he's straight jacketed here by what he is like legally allowed to do and say and interact with and it just you know like why make three Venom movies if the character is just is never

going to meet Spider-Man is never going to have anything to do with him uh again other than obviously you know the first one made a lot of money we're going to keep making them and yeah Tom Hardy is good but it's like I I really think these this was a franchise for three movies now that was a really great Central performance in search of any other reason to exist I still don't think they found it no and I couldn't agree more and like I you know I want to talk in just a little bit about

like null and I think maybe this in a future video about how null seems like he's being set up as maybe a big bad villain over their big spraing franchise but uh Matt I want to thank you for joining me you can find Matt singer's review for Venom the last dance on screenr crush.com and Matt of course is the author of Spider-Man from amazing to spectacular a really great book as well as other books that you can find links to on his socials Matt thanks for joining me now I do want to talk about what

I think is next for Sony and what the heck they could possibly be setting up here now I do wonder what Sony is actually trying to do here it seemed like in the post-credit scene of no way home that they were trying to put Venom in the MCU but then they not only rcon this immediately in this movie by showing that all of that goo on the bar stuff happens in the Venom universe but then they also audibly say we hate the Multiverse and then the movie ends with that null Poe credit scene that implies

that he will return but this is supposed to be Tom Hardy's last movie as Venom so I don't think that Sony is like pumping the brakes anytime soon I do think that the Venom symbat survived and it's going to bond with another one of its hosts from the comics like War veteran Flash Thompson and then I think that null will still come to earth or multiple Earths to threaten multiple Dimensions basically whatever franchise actually succeed for Sony like if Craven does well at the box office maybe they'll just say screw it and make their Sinister

6 movie where all the villains fight null or something I think that Sony is desperate to have a franchise which is why we're getting these schlocky Nostalgia bit Ghostbusters movies and these like half Spider-Man movies like Venom the last dance and guys this sucks because all of these heroes and villains really do belong in the MCU where Marvel Studios can take their time and build out a proper franchise like I hope there's a scenario where Sony will sell the rights back to Marvel or like lease them for hundred years or something like that but you

know I doubt it I think we're going to get a new Venom reboot very soon and this will not be the end of our suffering but just a reminder guys we are going on toward to 11 cities starting on November 14th in Boston we're going to go behind the scenes of our videos do Trivia Live talk back show you the things that we can't show on YouTube it's going to be a lot of fun the links are below so what did you think of Venom the Last Dance what do you think about the Venom franchise

and there something to do with Spider-Man I think franchise let me know your thoughts down in the comments below or at me on Twitter and if it's your first time here welcome to the Channel Please Subscribe and smash that Bell for alerts for screen Crush I'm Ryan AR [Music]