You’re Not Lazy: 3 Keys to Effortless Productivity (with Ali Abdaal)

that reminds me of this classic mindset shift I I don't have to do this I I get to do this I get to make my Youtube video I get to do a collab with Ali with literally everything in life with a little bit of creativity I'm sure you can find a way to make it 10% more enjoyable if you're new here my name is Izzy I'm a Cambridge graduate and a doctor and today's video is actually a collab with my friend Ali who is also a YouTuber and a productivity expert he's just released his very

first book called feel-good productivity and we'll be diving into some of the key principles of it so if you're hoping to renew and refresh your approach to life and work and productivity with some practical steps you can apply from today then keep watching this video this is my good friend Ali he is the world's most followed productivity expert how many followers do you have now in the category of productivity don't know like 6 million probably if you add add add all the things up wow that's more than some Count's populations isn't it is it I

think it must be it must be yeah surely small countries thanks so much for coming on the channel thank you for having me on it's a it's a real privilege this is so exciting um and I was hoping hoping to talk to you today about your favorite topic which is productivity right yeah that that one you've done a lot of reading and made a lot of videos and done a lot of speaking and talking to people about the field of productivity what are some of like the key things that you've gleaned and I was wondering

if maybe we can condense this into three things that people can really hold on to as the keys to productivity so let's start by defining productivity how do you define productivity Alie so to me productivity means doing what matters to in a way that's intentional and effective and sustainable intentional and effective and sustainable yeah okay and how can we get to that well that's why this book that we've got right here which is my book that I've just written and it's about to be published is called Feelgood productivity because actually the key to making productivity

intentional and effective and sustainable is to feel good it's to generate positive emotions with our work and the other non-w work stuff that we're doing uh which helps us be more productive but but also helps give give us energy and helps like make us be more creative and less stressed and all of those things help us do more of the things that matter to us in a way that's intentional and effective and sustainable it's also lovely how come no one's figured it out before I think people have figured it out before it's just that most

people are not aware of the people who have figured this out so there is a psychologist called Barbara Frederickson that almost no one will have heard of who's written a book called positivity which again almost no one will have heard of because it's not like a mainstream New York Times bestselling type book and she was a pioneering or is a pioneering researcher in the field of positive psychology yeah which as you know viewers of your channel might be aware is the field of psychology that's about human flourishing cuz there's like back in flourishing yeah it's

like you know one of your Vibes cuz like back in the day right like Psychology was all about how do you get someone from a state of disease or disease up to Baseline like if someone's super depressed or super anxious how do you get them back up to normal yeah as it were but then positive psychology came along about 20 years ago and Barbara Frederickson was one of the um kind of key key researchers in this field which is how do you get someone who's Baseline but get them to flourish even more M and she

found she invented or discovered something called the broaden and build Theory which is all about how positive emotions actually drive productivity creativity they lower stress they give you energy all of the good things happen when we when we feel good about the work that we're doing oh cool okay does that Vibe with your experience at all honestly it really does I think from everything in life from studying so all the academic stuff medicine oh yeah also Alie and I went to the same medical school which is how we know each other and so even from

medicine to YouTube to working out and doing yoga everything if I'm enjoying it more it just flows much more naturally and I want to do it I return to it time and time again even though maybe I don't have a very strict schedule I don't need to because it just I just do it it's like yoga I love doing yoga It Feels So enjoyable to me that I want to bring my yoga mat with me on holiday or I want to just hop on the mat even just for 5 or 10 minutes to do a

bit of stretching and and yoga so I do definitely see how positive positive emotions actually feed into increasing creativity and also making you want to actually keep doing the thing rather than gushing your teeth and hating it yeah 100% yeah um and so like these these researchers you know there was a lady called Alice Eis back in the day I think she's dead now and then there's Barbara Frederickson and a few other researchers essentially they've they've showed this experimentally like they get groups of people to go into a lab and they get them to do

different kind of tests of creativity or like tests of performance on a memorization task or things like that m and they'll put one group in a sort of positive emotion condition by showing them like a nice kind of Feelgood movie clip or by giving them a piece of candy or something like that yeah and then they'll put the other group in a control condition by not doing those things and then they'll test their performance on the creative tasks and they'll generally find that the people who were primed to feel good generally do better on Creative

tasks oh that's so interesting cuz that Vibes so much with my experience on YouTube actually which is a bit of a a kind of meta comment I guess cuz this is a YouTube video Yeah but but when I feel like I have to film a YouTube video I'm forcing myself to film a YouTube video I'm like oh I can't do it I can't think of any good ideas when I can't just sit in front of the camera and film and and do something cool whereas sometimes I'm just like oh I feel like filming a video

and then it's so much easier because then it's like oh I can just enjoy this and feel good so that's so interesting that there's actual research that backs us up cuz I had no idea that any existed yeah and I think actually the fact that you've chosen to use forks for this thing like the the the forks add an element of like Whimsy and like lightness and ease to the process like you're not taking it so seriously you we don't have a freaking you know this is an option to station station this microphone in front

of us and we were and we were going to do this but you said no actually I think it'll be more fun to just use forks yeah and little things like this like the fork is a good symbol of feel good productivity because you probably feel a bit more chill when you put a fork in your hand compared to when you have a sh mv7 in your hand absolutely and that Whimsy makes it feel good makes you more creative makes you more productive mhm they've even done a really fun study where they get people to

come into a lab and they tell everyone right guys you're going to be doing a public speech in front of an audience in 2 minutes now that stresses everyone out cuz everyone hates public speaking it's very scary and so they they measure like skin conductance and heart rate and breathing rate and they find that all of these different physiological parameters Spike CU people are scared they're like oh my God it puts them into a stressful State adrenaline and cortisol you know C through the bloodstream all that fun stuff mhm and then they show some of

the people like a nice feel-good movie they show some of them a sad movie they show some of them like a neutral movie and they actually find that the people who saw the nice movie their physiological parameters return to Baseline quicker than the other groups and the ones that saw the sad movie they take even longer to return than the control group wow and so this is another thing that um Professor Frederick and coined which is the undoing hypothesis the idea that positive emotions can actually undo the effect of stress and we can see this

in the lab in physiological studies so actually it seems like there's a lot of research in this area but why haven't we applied it it before this like why why has nobody been been pedling this what I've been hearing for the last 5 years is motivation is a myth you you just need discipline you don't need to feel good you just need to get up and grind grind set like that's the often the vibe not always but I feel like so on my channel for example I don't really Vibe with that and I found anytime

I try to do that it ends up in usually tears and me giving up on the thing and then reapo it trying to find oh can I use a fork instead well that make it more fun or something like that trying to find some fun in it why has it not gotten to this point already like where did all this grind set stuff come from I'm not sure um one of my theories is that when we talk about emotions a lot of dudes switch off because they're like nah it's not for me yeah and a

lot of men in particular really Vibe with the grind set philosophy like they love seeing David Goggins and be like you know stay hard all all all of that kind of stuff is is a certain kind of VI and I think the word productivity is often kind of male skewed in terms of its interest category and all that kind of stuff even the fact that you mentioned energy and you had to caveat with it sounds a bit woo in society we have this idea that energy and emotions and all this sort of stuff there's something

about it that feels less legit than discipline and grit and like those other kind of constructs yeah so it's there have been for for example in the film Mary Poppins you know there's that song a spoonful of sugar M and at the start of of the song when the kids are you know the kids are kind of struggling with doing their chores and Mary Poppins comes along and she says in every job that is to be done there is an element of fun find the fun and snap the job's a game and then she goes

and every a spoonful of sugar all that all that stuff excellent rendition thank you that was such a short snippet though wish you could do a full cover I I think you should think that would be good like your Adele cover was was it oh yeah yeah I havron or something are you looking off to the side you get those sorts of Snippets of people being like actually you can make things fun but there's something about that that feels like it feels not legit it feels like not scientific even though lots of high performers athletes

entrepreneurs uh Nobel Prize winners attribute their um a lot of their success to the idea of having fun with their work and enjoying the process and flow this concept of flow that another psychologist called me exent Mei kind of came up with in like 1971 all of this stuff is there and it has this idea of enjoyment and positive emotions at its core but for some reason there's something about it that just seems I don't less sexy to um I don't know Bros who tend to love the idea of productivity yeah I never knew how

to say his name Mii chick sent Mii yeah we'll put the text up here yeah I remember reading that book and being like Mi something something and I was like no that's really that's definitely wrong so I'm glad that you I I looked it up when I was recording the audio book for this book very good so since we now know that productivity actually works better and we recover from stress and all of these things we're more creative when we feel good how can we actually apply that to our day-to-day lives to hopefully be more

productive in a way that feels good a great question and all the things that that you talk about all the things yeah so um when we were talking you mentioned the title of this video might be something around three keys to um effortless productivity yeah and there are in fact three keys to it and this is part why this book is separated into three parts so I'll just kind of give you a brief overview of those and then we can kind of dive into whatever sounds interesting mhm cool so the three parts of the book

are energize unblock and sustain energize unblock and sustain so energize is is is the one that's kind of most directly related to the idea of feel good productivity um there are basically three energizers that conveniently start with P which is play power and people and those are the three energizers that if we apply to anything that we're doing it becomes more feel-good it becomes more enjoyable it becomes more more energizing play power and people play power and people let's take the example of if I want to let's say transform my relationship with making YouTube videos

sure how can I energize the process fantastic what a good question so um firstly you can read the book which will give you a bunch of different actionable experiments that you can apply to this but I'll just share a few of them and we can we can kind of uh Riff on this yeah that sounds good sweet so play power in people so play is we kind of want to ask ourselves how might I approach filming my YouTube videos or studying for my exams or whatever the thing might be how might I approach this more

in the spirit of play so for examp using using forks for microphones sure is that is that in the spirit of play uh that's absolutely in the spirit of play one so okay so one of the main factors that that leads to that leads to people being feeling playful is where the stakes are sufficiently low mhm so if you imagine Roger fedra defending his wimon title or like jovic or something yeah they are not approaching that in the spirit of play cuz the stakes are too high and if you look at any of their faces

with these athletes when they're sort of in the in the heat of battle it's like it it's it's not like I'm having a great time I'm kind of using a fork instead of tennis racket that's not that's not the vibe I would love that though for the record you would um and so a big part of play is play happens when we are not stressed or when our stress levels are low mhm and so for example with YouTube videos If there is a pressure or an expectation or a a heaviness to the filming where it's

like oh this has to be good this has to get a million views I'm such an imposter I can't all of that stuff creates makes the stakes go really high and it's almost impossible to feel playful when the stakes are that high yeah and so the trick is to lower the bar to reduce the stakes in our own mind and to approach it with to try our best to approach it with lightness and ease mhm and to ask ourselves and and this is something that I genuinely used to have as a Post-It note on my

computer monitor I would show this in our YouTuber Academy sessions I literally had a Post-It note on my computer monitor saying what would this look like if it were fun and genuinely just asking that question can can often make all the difference yeah so what would filming a YouTube video look like if it were fun easy it would look like I could film whatever I want whenever I wanted and there wasn't any pressure to have a video perform well it was just I feel like sharing this I feel like talking about this for a bit

it's fun and I don't feel like there's cuz I feel like as a YouTuber especially once you start getting sponsors involved then they start scrutinizing your metrics and being like Oh but this video didn't hit 100K views so therefore all of this stuff right that makes it feel like the stakes are higher than they actually need to be absolutely and so then I could make a fun video that I just feel like making something experimental and that would feel like it was in the spirit of play I love the word experiment so actually in this

book we have in every chapter there are six different experiments and basically there six strategies or six tactics but I've called them experiments because I actually think the sort of living life as a series of experiments is a really cool way of of being um there's a really cool experiment that uh another YouTuber did called his name is Mark Rober have you seen his stuff oh yes yeah I love his stuff yeah his stuff is amazing so he used to work at Nasa then worked at Apple and he did a really interesting experiment where he

kind of got 50,000 people in his audience to learn to code online and so he took them through some like coding puzzle yeah but it had a bit of a Twist because he split this 50,000 people up into two different groups yeah and the the idea was that you had to like program a robot to like go around a maze or something the catch was that this was actually an impossible task like there was no way to solve it and he was interested in how how much are people trying how many attempts are they making

and so for one of the groups when you would execute the code and it would go wrong it would give you a message saying you have failed please try again for the second group which is even even even more clever the message said you have failed you have lost five points you now have 195 points please try again so completely identical the only difference between the two groups is just the fact that one group loses Five Points the points are completely meaningless they're completely arbit yeah but when you look at the group that lost the

five points made less than half the number of attempts to solve the puzzle M and they succeeded like 20% less of the time as well so just that difference people feeling as if like they've lost something MH is like makes them try less than half as as many times as the group that just got told that they failed oh wow and so he he gave a really good T Ted talk about this and it's about our relationship to failure if we are when we're so worried about the results of failure even when we're just losing

arbitrary points there's something about that that makes us feel really bad makes us try less hard it makes us be less productive most Try Us less creative and you know one of the things he says in this talk is what if we kind of thought like scientists if a scientist is doing an experiment even if it fails that still gives them useful data that's true yeah you can still publish it exactly yeah negative result is still a result absolutely and so you know that's why I love thinking of things as experiments like this video is

just an experiment yeah yeah and and you know the first time I put a microne on a fork it was an experiment and I enjoyed the experiment so here we are doing this yeah the the other cool thing which you um just alluded to when you mentioned the thing around sponsors that when you get sponsors on a video and then it starts to like kind of increase the pressure MH um this is something I talk about in chapter N9 of the book which is about the idea of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation oo yes so intrinsic

motivation I think you talk you might have talked about this in one of your other videos potentially intrinsic motivation is where we're motivated to do a thing for the sake of doing the thing like I'm intrinsically motivated to I don't hang out with my friends or play a video game cuz cuz it's fun yeah but extrinsic motivation is when you're motivated to do the thing because of the money or because of the status or because of the Accolade or because I need to pass this exam to get into this thing there's some sort of external

factor causing us to do the thing yeah and the really cool thing that all the researchers found about this is that even when you are intrinsically motivated to do something if you add an extrinsic motivator it dampens the intrinsic motivation so you might really love doing yoga but if someone paid you to do Y Yoga and now all of a sudden you got paid to run yoga classes it would actually reduce the enjoyment of doing yoga that's so sad because so many people are like oh I want to like find a job that you love

and then you'll never work a day in your life yeah and so then they get a job as I know let's say yoga teacher but then they're like oh crap I need to make money doing this and I'm being paid for this and then this is a classic thing of like artists who make art their job stop loving art absolutely so that's interesting that there's there's just so much interesting studies and interesting research out there yeah and I think one way of squaring squaring this and the way I think of it is if you are

going to make a living oh if you are going to make money from from the thing that you're passionate about try and make it pocket money rather than like income money cuz if you're making pocket money from teaching yoga like I was making pocket money from doing close-up magic back in the day yeah that that that makes it even more fun cuz it's like oh my God I can't believe I'm getting paid to do this like performance yeah but if I had to make a living as a full-time magician now I'm spending 80% of my

my time doing bookings and and invoicing Stakes are high stakes are really high I've got to make a living damn feel good productivity feel good productivity okay so energizing the three PS play Power people play approaching things with a spirit of play lightness and ease power what is power how can I feel more powerful with my YouTube channel yeah um I wonder if we use a different example just as a bit more okay yeah what would you like studying for exams for example I think a lot of people can relate to yeah studying for exams

that sounds good so in terms of power essentially power comes from really the chapter should have been called empowerment but like that start with an e and so we like called it power to start with a B pep doesn't P doesn't sound um but it's power is getting us is getting at the feeling of empowerment which we get from taking ownership of stuff and um from having control over either the process or the outcome control over the process or the outcome interesting or even the mindset that we approach it with okay so for example if

someone is studying for their exams and what they're telling themselves is I've got to study for this exam cuz I need it I need I need to do these credits to do my degree or whatever yeah that is a very disempowering way of viewing studying for your exam and you're completely shooting yourself in the foot by choosing to view it in that disempowering way y it might be true that yeah sure you've got to take this exam as part of your credit yeah but if you can convince yourself that it's your choice I'm actually choosing

to take this exam because it's really important for me to be a doctor and therefore I need to take biochemistry I'm choosing to do it that automatically makes you feel far more powerful mhm there's also other other aspect of power like trying to do things your own way um so for example let's say I was studying for my exams and I don't know the teacher gave me recommended reading chapters a b andc and I would to be like you know what I know that power is a thing that makes me more intrinsically motivated to do

a thing makes it feel more good so I'm not actually going to do chapters a b and c I'm actually going to do my own research for this I'm going to go outside of the prescribed syllabus I'm going to go a little bit above and beyond I'm going to engage with the topic a little bit more yeah and there's this almost cont inuitive thing where when someone is feeling drained by a thing like you know you're doing your day job and it's it's feeling pretty draining we think that the way to conserve energy is by

doing the bare minimum you know what I'm just going to Coast I'm not going to work too hard cuz I'm just going to watch the clock all the time and once it gets to 6 p.m. then I can go home and then I can chill but living that way is actually really draining it is not at all fun not at all interesting not at all energizing to be kind of doing the bare minimum and coasting yeah so with students who are struggling with exams and or whatever doing the bare minimum is actually again shooting yourself

in the foot because there's this idea of like the more engaged you are with a thing the more energy you get out of it yeah and the more power you feel the more it feels good so weirdly going the extra mile and going beyond the syllabus is another way of get feeling powerful with your work and with your subject which makes you feel good makes you more productive makes you more creative makes you less stress makes you perform better in your exams means you're more likely to get a first class degree because now you're bringing

in novel interesting ideas all of the good things happen but it does it looks like extra work on the surface yeah it looks like oh you know I've got to do all this extra reading but no I'm choosing to do this extra reading because I want to feel more power in my work h yeah that reminds me of this classic mindset shift that I often use of I I don't have to do this I I get to do this I get to make my Youtube video I get to do a collab with with Oli this

is so fun the world's most valed productivity I time to be alive I get to upload a video to like half a million subscribers and have people engage with it and comment on it that's cool rather than I have to film this sponsored video before the deadline it feels completely different even though it's kind of the same thing that I'm actually doing yeah have to versus get to is actually one of the experiments in the book M nice yeah I think we we might have read the same blog post by Seth Goden where he talks

about this this mindset shift but yeah I love it it's it's so great yeah it's good it's good stuff nice okay so we've got play we've got power then people yeah so we've all had that experience and I'm sure you've had this as well where there are some people that we spend time with where we feel super energized afterwards but there are some people we spend time with where we kind of feel drained afterwards yeah and that's this idea that organizational psychologists call relational energy the energy that you get out of your interactions with other

people and you know you know they've done bunch of studies in organizations unsurprisingly they find that people who are energizers tend to be better liked they tend to be better respected they tend to get more promotions they get paid better people people live them people like them people want to hang out with them they're more productive yeah um whereas the people that drain other people's energy by being a bit of a downer being negative all that kind of stuff the opposite is true and so given that we as humans are social creatures one really easy

way to make whatever we do more energizing more enjoyable more Feelgood is to find a way to bring people into it so for example studying with friends is more energizing than studying on your own yeah even though maybe you're like you lose a focus a little bit like actually net a lot of Studies have have been done around this net you perform better you're more productive you're more creative you you feel better about the thing you feel more energized if you have friends around you um in lockdown when you I was writing a big chunk

of this book there was these like Zoom co-working sessions called London writer salon and they would have this writers hour where you join a zoom call a couple of times a day and there'll be like a few hundred writers from all around the world it's just a zoom call like you're not actually there in there there with them in person but the fact that we're all there on the zoom call everyone's writing there's something really magical about that that makes again writing anything feel more energizing super so the challenge here is how can we find

a way to bring people or to connect what we're doing to service in some way and I don't know if you found this for a YouTube channel like where if you imagine the reason you're doing a video to is to make money it feels less good but if the reason you're doing it is to genuinely help someone there's something about that that feels magically way better and way more energizing iect yeah one of the big reframes I've had with my YouTube channel recently especially in light of I had a recent existential crisis about YouTube where

I was like oh I'm not enjoying this I realized it was cuz I was getting wrapped up in all of these extrinsic motivators all of the kind of metrics and the sponsorships and and all of that and losing sight of the purpose of actually I want to make videos that connect with people and give them value and help at least one person and have that sense of service and connection with people and so I've been really trying to focus on that and that's interesting because that resonates a lot with this whole thing about people and

and connecting with people reading the comments and I read all of your comments by the way guys so let me know down below if you learn anything new from this video cuz I will read your comment this whole thing about people also reminds me of how my first year of medical school where I would actually study with with one medic friend a lot during exam term because it just felt so much more interesting if I was on my own I was like I could bring myself to look at my godamn books but when I was

studying with my friend I was like oh okay we can talk about this we can do a little stuff on the Whiteboard we're kind of wasting time as well and messing around doing silly things and going to lunch and getting like ice cream in the middle of a study session but actually I was enjoying the thing and it was helping me to do it and we both ended up doing doing well in those end ofview exams because we had each other to revise with and and motivate each other so yeah it's it's interesting how all

of this really definitely resonates with my personal experiences I just didn't have the language or the research to back it up it's all there I think it's all like this idea that the more we can make it's like like no one ever struggles with willpower or discipline when it comes to hanging out with their friends or watching Netflix or playing video games cuz those things are inherently enjoyable parents will say oh my God my kid is I don't know he's really struggles to focus like he's not he's not doing well in school and that kid

will be up until 4:00 in the morning playing fortnite and like or doing Arbitrage on Neopets or something like that like the kid does not have a focus problem the kid is just bored out of his mind with the work that he's doing at school yeah and so it's not that like you need discipline to make yourself do hard things it's like okay sure but if you can find a way to make the thing feel less hard to feel a bit more fun even just 10% more enjoyment like some people are like oh well you

know not everything can be fun all the time it's like sure not everything can be fun all the time but with literally everything in life with a little bit of creativity I'm sure you can find a way to make it 10% more enjoyable yeah and even when it comes to life and death like you know we've both been in in operating theaters where they're doing like life-saving surgery surgeons often tend to have background music like upbeat background music they tend to laugh around a little bit in the operation like there's surgeon even surgeons who are

dealing with life and death recognize that there is a lightness that actually makes you perform better rather than worse and there's a really nice quote from gry's Anatomy um I don't know if you seen gra Anatomy no I don't think I have one of the one of the neurosurgeons uh Derek Shephard played played by Patrick Dempsey he has a ritual at the start of every operation where you know they go around introducing everyone in the team and then he says it's a beautiful day to save lives let's have some fun and I love that oh

that's great what a quote right everybody it's a beautiful night to save lives five so when it comes to bringing in all of this energy into productivity and doing things whether that's work or side hustles or taking care of your health play power and people yeah and even if like if you want if you guys want to read the book there's like six experiments in each chapter there's also two other parts to the book there's unblock which is basically about how to beat procrastination with like the three blockers that cause us to feel less good

and how we can overcome them and then the final three chapters are about sustaining this so how do we overcome burnout how do we make sure that we are conserving our energy recharging and aligning what we're doing to what really matters to us that's like the next part of the equation but even if you don't want to read the book even if you never set you know put your sides on any of this ever again if there's one thing that you want that I would love for you to take away it's that if you're ever

struggling with anything related to work or even life just keep this idea keep this phrase kind of feel good productivity in your mind like ask yourself how can I make this feel a little bit better how can I experience a a little bit more enjoyment in what I'm doing and if you just think play power and people how can I incorporate more play or more power/ empowerment and more people that will really help you and you're welcome to read the book if you'd like to learn more and have some more actionable strategies to to take

away and incidentally if you're looking for an interesting new Avenue to apply the principles of Feelgood productivity to your life you might like to check out brilliant who are very kindly sponsoring this video brilliant is one of the best ways to learn maths computer science and data science in a fun and interactive way their courses are genuinely really fun and really engaging and uh at least for me I don't know about you but I I was torn between medicine and computer science when I first applied to medical school and actually doing the computer science courses

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for sponsoring this video thank you definitely check out the book if you're interested in hearing more about Feelgood productivity and Ellie where can we find you on the internet uh you can find me on the internet on my YouTube channel and in fact we'll link a video over here where Izzy and I are doing a collab on my channel where we talk about YouTube tips so if you're potentially interested in starting a YouTube channel but actually I think you gave a lot of amazing advice in that video that applies to life so if you're struggling

with anything at all I think hearing Izzy's take where we did a video on my Channel about how you overcame your struggles with YouTube and imposter syndrome and stuff will be super helpful so that video will be linked right over there well thanks so much Alie for coming and chatting about productivity thank you so much for watching as always take care of yourself and I will see you in the next video bye bye nice