Charli xcx: The BRAT Interview | Apple Music

hey yo Charlie let me get a fidg this has been the total opposite of like an overnight success story I've always been caught in this dichotomy of am I a left field underground artist or am I supposed to be a pop star people are obsessed over the way that you presented this music they say you claimed a color it's crazy they say this fan base they're hungry for us to succeed we just have to do it for them that's all we need to like light a fire that's show I've ever been to it was everything

I suppose it's been very rewarding that I've really truly just been myself Niche is rewarded so much more than it ever has been and I think the labels yeah they got it they got on board and they left me alone and that's really all I've ever wanted to be left if you think about one word that sums up Charlie XX this year we all know what it is but there are so many more words that can apply if you've been on this ride with Charlie forever then yeah it's hard working Visionary creative ambitious adventurous if

it's your first impression iconic seems pretty good and yeah brat but it's more than that in fact yeah let's sum them all up with one word [Music] Charlie [Applause] iol are we going oh sorry we found you been chasing you we've been chasing you trying to catch up to you I don't know how we caught up to you I don't know how you're feeling right now but I'm good really glad to see you yeah me too I'm glad to see you I'm I'm um sort of Hanging On by a thread in ways but I also

think you know this has been the total opposite of like an overnight success story so I think I am prepared in ways um for what happening right now in terms of like the pace of things and also in terms of you know my kind of level of Engagement with reality versus fantasy and yeah I just it's I think easier for me to take a lot of things with a pinch of Sal because of you know how long I've been doing this for it's funny cuz you talk to people who have been introduced to you this

summer and they're like who is she and then there's a whole bunch of us who are like at last and it's it's sort of one or two yeah you know it's it's it's either or um and I wonder it kind of must feel a little bit like both for you in a way because we' know each other a long time and I've always joked with people about you know the world's got to catch up to you you shouldn't try to catch up to the world and so how does that kind of validation feel now obviously

it feels on one side of things really amazing you know to have made this album uh where I really truly made like no sacrifices at all like I really was preparing myself for this album to sort of be for my kind of fan base only and not really like break outside the walls of that at all for it to feel very similar to pop two in the kind of the scale of it you know and so when you know so many new people began kind of reacting to not only the music but the sort of

culture around me as an artist I was like oh wow like this is so awesome because I've not really sacrificed any part of myself to appeal to more people uh which is something that I always kind of felt like I had to do because I never felt sort of traditionally like I don't know like pretty enough or you know that I was kind of doing or saying the right things in like the sphere of pop music to be accepted enough on like a kind of uh sort of larger scale and so I suppose it's been

very rewarding that I've really truly just been myself as cheesy as that sounds and more people are listening to my music cuz that's really the kind of ultimate goal for me to be able to make what I want to make but kind of lots of people to hear it and then on the flip side you know it's sort of like um just quite overwhelming I guess as you say it's like people don't know the history and that's fine it's you know it's kind of fun for people who want to find out to F to find

out but yeah I think there there's a lot of depth to all Artistry and I think it's like at the level I was before I would say sort of like 95% of people who were engaging with my work were so hungry to explore all of the kind of little Easter eggs and the depth behind everything that I was doing and now there's you know more people who are engaging with things on a surface level which is totally great but I'm it also I'm the artist in me is like oh but don't you know why I

wore that color you know getting like very headyy about it I feel kind of um in a in a really sort of nice way kind of envious of the people that are discovering you now because they get to go back and experience all these different sides of of what you do and all this excitement and all this amazing art for the first time and I thought it was really cool how you kind of repositioned and repurposed your artwork to bring out up to date and and gave all your previous projects a through line in terms

of it's fun but it's also smart because it says like hey it's not like this is completely different to anything else have done it's all been a journey up to this point yeah I think you know in terms of like previous projects it's like I think there are things that are you know inherently like uh comparative within my my work and I do feel like brat and pop to and how I'm feeling now kind of do live they're sort of siblings and the in the catalog I suppose and yeah it's nice to sort of visually

tie them all together as well and then there's some more kind of like anomaly work it's interesting for people to discover too but it's nice to treat it as a whole yeah Universe we spoke in 22 on Crash and that felt like the end of something I remember at the end of that conversation I said yeah I feel like that's the end of an era for her that's how I felt at the end of that conversation like there was a release that day but it was also a release through the music of like I'm sick

of trying to kind of and lab Matrix people after relase frames and all this sh which works a lot of the time but it it felt like you had had enough of that yes and I just I think it'd be cool to kind of just pick up from that point and and how you felt after releasing that album and and to get to the point of brat and and sort of how important that that phase was of Letting Go like I didn't even know you wouldd sign another label deal like I genuinely didn't yeah I

was very keeping under apps you were you were like I'm done with labels I think for nowed IED I moved from the UK to the US you know I really on that I I really did um explore other options but in the end you know having more control of my masters MH was essentially what I wanted I've always been caught in this dichotomy of am I a left underground artist or am I supposed to be a pop star and I think crash was me kind of like toying with the idea of like no I'm going

to be a pop star but also putting this protective layer of like but it's a concept around it just in case it failed or whatever you know and I think I think artists always figure out ways to kind of protect themselves from uh you know public discourse in their own ways and I think that was mine during that time after that whole process I really did just feel like okay you know what this next one is for me like it's that thing of like one for them one for me and this next one I was

like this is for me I've done the like trying to be commercial thing I've done the I'm playing the game I've done the like I'm doing radio whatever you know yeah and I was like I'm just like not doing that anymore like I'm just not I'm not built for it in the way that other people are it doesn't bring me joy see I think when we were having that conversation you'd already come to that conclusion not to weird about it but because you were you seemed so relieved it was like you were just letting all

of this pressure go yeah yeah maybe in that moment and it just felt like I don't know I got very excited after that because I realized like whatever you do next I knew was going to be very um just driven by you and driven by your team you know with hindsight there's been so many times in my life where I've tried to you know do that version of a project where you're like no this one it's about me my team no outside voices don't care about how well it performs etc etc and I think really

successfully I only managed to do that one time which was with pop 2 and and with v vom vroom actually because that sort of came off of the back of uh this album sucker which was sort of commercially at that point in time my most successful record and I just didn't get any enjoyment out of it at all it it I didn't feel that I would sit down and listen to some of the most successful songs from that record I I didn't particularly relate to a lot of the things that I was doing even though

I was having fun doing a lot of the things it wasn't it didn't feel like distilled version of myself and so then I kind of like did this big sort of pendulum swing into vroom vroom and then into uh the two mixtapes that I made number one Angel and pop two which really did feel like that thing of like okay well I'm making this for myself um and for the people who really understand me the most and if it doesn't perform it doesn't perform that was your first kind of experience of sort of rejecting the

the the established why and being like no no there's another y over here yes and and it's with Sophie and it's with ag and it's like there's a thing over here that whether it works or not this is my why yeah and I think it was at that point in time where I was like this is equally as important and has the potential to be equally as successful in terms of scale as like this the other thing that I was doing but it's just you have to kind of tell the story in a different way

you have to learn to Market yourself and actually present it differently yeah you know that that's when I felt like I really had a hardcore fan base because it was me and them we were the people engaging in the conversations around my work and the culture around my work and kind of that conversation was you know generating the small level of hype and Buzz that those project got you know right internet core that kind of thing and I and I think now it's it's sort of the same pattern in the you know crash happened and

I was beyond proud of that record and you know the things that that record did that was my biggest tour at the time it was statistically my one of my biggest records like I'm not super focused on that even in that record when I kind of was supposed to be but it was it was like a you know great album campaign pain um and I by the way I find I like I mean you know this about me but I guess for people watching who maybe don't like I talk about music in terms of like

marketing and campaigns more than I do music I think sometimes but it's the part I've always been really interested in even more than the music I've told you the story about how when someone said who are the young people that can run the industry in the future and I said well Charlie's definitely on this I've told you this before because of that because of that fact totally and yeah so you know now with going into brat like I I was very much focusing on you know uh in that same way as with v v and

pop two like this is for me for my fan base Etc but I kind of wrote this sort of like Manifesto it was really clear it was just like essentially saying all the things that um you know I I should have said when I was doing vom vom but probably didn't have the confidence to say but essentially that like this record it's not going to there's going to be like no like traditional radio songs like whatever there's there's not going to be that like traditional like this is the single kind of a Vibe um because

we don't live in that world now and you the label should recognize that and you should recognize that this like fan base that I have built are so hungry for me and my peers and are kind of like SL lightly left world of like pop dance music to that they're hungry for us to succeed and that doesn't mean that we have to do any pandering to any other side of the industry we just have to do it for them and we have to make them feel so special because they are because they've championed me and

us for so long and that's all we need to like light a fire and I think you know now Niche is rewarded so much more than it ever has and I think the labels recognize that and I think I spoke with such confidence and aggression I suppose in parts that I think uh they yeah they got it they got on board and they left me alone and that's really all I've ever wanted to be left alone and so then I could just do my thing saying you know and it worked and I think what's really

interesting is like out of this time where I and you know I feel like a little bit arrogant saying this perhaps but out of this time where like the niche is so rewarded after like serving the niche actually like kind of a monoculture moment happened which we don't see a lot of in this day and [Music] [Music] age people are obsessed over the way that you presented this music they say you claimed a color it's they say yeah yeah now I know yeah it's it's like it's like that's yours now and um fashion houses are

now creating things out of that color and like it's kind of it's kind of mad I mean where were you when the idea of like presenting it through the green with the with the lowercase font the blur the the very sort of early stage digital where were you where did that come from it was just at home um and you know actually uh where I'm not sure if I actually said this yet but where the actual first idea of doing a text cover came from was to save money because I was like the this album

is not going to appeal to a lot of people so $300,000 photo shoots a't on the books yeah literally that's why I was like I think like I will do like a press shoot and then maybe we just like save on the album cover and maybe it's like cool seriously though I was like I think it's also cool cuz I've been on every cover of mine apart from vom vroom so like actually it kind of punctuates the pattern in like quite a nice way but also like handy cuz it's going to be you know a

lower spend and then I kind and then everyone was like well that's the stupidest idea ever and I was like no like I was to ask who the bid and you just said everyone everyone everyone everyone like yeah Brandon my manager my creative director imagine like all my friends everyone was like no not the text cover and I was like no guys seriously and then I started playing around and I was just making mockups on my phone um and I was like this actually is really good and it actually feels like it very much embodies

the word brat to kind of not be there you know um because that is sort of less of the norm I suppose for female artists you know um so that sort of felt Punchy and you know the the kind of pixelation it sort of makes it look like it's kind of been done in this sort of rush like he didn't get the proper highres file we we did but like you know we we it's like that's what people think and the shade of green like we we really honed in on the what that should be

and kind of wanted to go for the one that the most people in our sort of like cor group had the most adverse reaction to Brandon was like this is really hard to look at I was like this is the green then perfect because I think it's like I knew that it would generate this conversation I knew that a lot of people would be sort of frustrated or disappointed by it and I think for me it's like I would rather have those conversations which actually in some case became quite like explosive um then you know

a picture where people are like she looks good you know it's like I I'm I enjoy the conversation because that's what I enjoy about um music myself I enjoy the conversations that I have with ag about you know whatever it may be uh the artwork of or the font of you know some release that we're into it's like it's really fun to like dissect that and it was so cool that like I saw so many think pieces written by fans you know like essays about um the the cover and then later about the marketing and

well because people are really really um Blown Away by by the impact that that the marketing has had here and and what you've done is is reins stilled this confidence that marketing is creative I think I think marketing has had its wings clipped in a lot of ways lately because the way social media works and the way people just talk and put things out it's so fast I I have friends of mine who are really good at that job and they say it's it's been hard to get really high quality great work over the line

because clients just want fast Punchy that they know it's going to last 5 minutes and on to the next thing and that's not rewarding for some of these people totally and I think what brat and what you've done has has achieved in out of a lot of things is like I said put some confidence back into this idea that if it's sticky you can build around it I don't think the music industry is is sort of as knowledgeable on marketing as it really like should be to be honest it's like you know the idea of

like selling a sexy product it's like you have to create some kind of supply and demand especially when it comes to pop you know the aim is to sell right and like sell as much as possible and go on tour and be everywhere and yes that there is there is that but I think in a way to like get to that in an interesting way you kind of have to sort of like starve like the audience like drip feed the tap to get the viewer into this like feverish state where they actually want more rather

than you're just sort of like super serving them serving them this endless bu of stuff because we want to we want to invest in it I think we want to invest in things rather than just be told here it is it's as I present it it's done enjoy it it's like cool like do I get a say and I think of it yeah I I've I've never shopped at Supreme ever but I kind of likened this album to like a supreme drop kind of a thing like I've actually never even been in supreme but I

see the lines outside it's like that's what you want you know you want there to be this kind of rubber band of Desire of like oh my God I have to get it I have to get it I didn't get it like is there another way for me to get it like whether that be you know releasing really limited runs of things whether it be um you know the the kind of like private Instagram which I will say like I totally like jacked that idea from Lana Del with her honeymoon account I was like this

is amazing like why aren't more people doing this because I remember I couldn't get in for ages and I was like I want to be in there like it's that thing of like creating this club that uh you know feels in some way special or exclusive but actually when you're in it it's very open and fun all that makes sense and what also adds to the fun for you to be able to continue to to be creative with the project because I think a lot of times artists feel that they put something out and then

they're expected to go make something else and what's clear to me is that you've continued to enjoy breathing new life into brat someone said to me what how has Charlie done it I said well okay she's working really hard like she's not taking your eye off the project Billy's doing it as well I think you're sending a message to young artists that if you're really proud of what you create you should feel like you can go out there and work like any generation or any decade I feel so much love for this project that I

don't feel like I'm doing anything against my will like everything that I'm doing relating to the music it's because I want to do it because I love the music music so much and I also you know I know that I won't have this moment again in this exact same way I think you know the success of brat and the success of the marketing of brat is also in ways a curse like I I'm not going to be able to Market my next album in the same way but you pivot you always do I'll pivot but

whatever I do next will be compared even if the music is completely different the scale the way it's rolled out the level of conversation I'm aware that whatever comes next this is kind of the the albatross so to speak probably a good thing because you know when you're the number one news story in the world because KLA is brat then how do you possibly re you I mean you've got to move on from that I mean yeah you don't get that again was was that just was that just off the cuff did you just flick

that out there like whatever yeah it was it was a little it was off the cuff yeah it was me and my friend Terry we work on a lot of kind of like my social stuff together we were just texting and we were like should we do this we did it and you know I I won't lie like naively I sort of didn't actually think it would take on quite the life that it did um like did I ever expect to be kind of like dissected for things that I've said in like an interview with

Nick Grimshaw on Fox News no I I didn't see that like coming in my life was Nick was Nick on Fox News uh yeah yeah both of us were it was he was asking me kind of like so you know what are like the brat Essentials and I was like oh pack of six and a strappy top or whatever and then it's like you know the political correspondents on Fox News are kind of being like do we really need this kind of woman setting an example for the American Youth and I was just like oh

God like obviously like I've never cared to set an example but gu I'm on the news the Montage was something to behold you know where all the different news Cycles were trying to like lean into brat it's fun watching them figure it out yeah bless them yeah well you have you do have a footnote in this campaign for somebody who I think if you ever got to meet her would probably say thank you yeah I mean that I yeah that would be cool and you know obviously she's obviously got a young team around her I

mean the moves they're making are they picked up and ran with it and that was cool there was a young gay man on that campaign I think who said let's go your brat yes um and that's cool and you know obviously like happy to be on the right side of [Music] History this remix project I don't even know if I should call it that completely different but still brat yes it's one of the most beautiful honest Flawless dance records I've ever heard thank you thank you it is so first of all it is a club

record I don't want anyone get this Twisted I mean it is a modern brilliant Club record and I know that you're a genre agnostic but do you agree that you're making that you've made a club record yes yeah I mean I agree that the original album and the Remix album again I don't really know if it's called that it's a new yes kind of a new album isn't it yeah yes I I agree that they they are they their dance records they're both very much rooted within club culture hence you know the boiler room and

yeah I mean that's why I came from so yeah you came from the warehouse scene in the beginning the r yes yes it's kind of paying homage to that and the the different sort of textures of those spaces and you know working with gelstein or AG or George or whoever it may be like it really does to me I feel like a dance record and it was fun on the Remix album to bring all of these people in some of whom aren't particularly uh connected to the club World when you would think about it on

the surface but actually Julian Casablancas for example Bonnie ver yeah who who I mean if you go through Bonny V's deep Cuts or you really go through his collection as Justin Veron not just as Bonny ver he's you know he's constantly moving in electronic spes absolutely yeah yeah and you know when I think about Julian it's like okay like has this sort of like history with Darth Punk and also The Strokes were done The Strokes yeah I mean exactly it's like you talk about like New York downtown it's like people were like partying then you

know and really in like a hardcore way and so I think he of all people like understands like how to capture that kind of an energy in a room and on the songs it was definitely crazy pulling that all together yeah the collaborators are insane I mean I think it might be up there with the most impressive collaboration project on paper thanks ever it's nuts I mean you've got uncredited dual leaper on there I know yeah no she IED I said I said I actually pitched it to her CU I was like we can do

it as a feature but like maybe it's I was like if you were going to do it as a feature it should be more but like I'm kind of into like I into the fact that she's just like it I'm like learning two languages and I'm going to be fluent in both of them within like 3 years or whatever it is and I'm like that's so cool like come and do that on this song which is already about you know commun communicate talking in French and Spanish I was like well you this is you were

born to do this let's go the beautiful contrast of what makes Brett really special and don't get me wrong I I love seeing it everywhere and I love seeing the impact it's had visually and aesthetically and culturally but it wouldn't have connected if the music didn't matter yeah and what you did was you created this world and we all know this so sorry if I'm stay in the obvious you took this place of of of where parties happen and where people um let go and release and and just have a great time and then you

also told the truth you were like yeah but I'm really sad or I feel weird feelings of guilt because I miss my friend or I'm unsure about how I look today and you really win in and before you move on to the Remix album because I want to bring it up to date and a lot of people have written and talked about brat but what was that experience like kind of existing in these two worlds where one is party girl and the other one is Charlie for all of your fears and doubts that we all

go through as humans they both coexist um truly you know I think Matty was actually asking me this like when we came back from IA he was like are you actually partying like as much as it looks like you are or is it all a bit of a like and I was like no like we are and I was like I'm really tired like I'm really really tired and it also fuels you know the other side of the kind of like you know now I'm sad kind of a thing it really is that Cal down

I'm actually happy that uh both sides of me have been so well documented because now I do really have an excuse for any kind of like bad behavior or being sad it's like it really is written in the history books um so you just enabled yourself yeah to your mind or try to claim it back yeah yeah I suppose so um but no I mean I don't know I think it's like we all have those two sides of us I think no one is eternally happy otherwise like happiness wouldn't exist as an emotion not many

artists are as honest about it as you were on this record and you have been throughout your career but this was really upfront and on the Remix album in particular because it's like you realize that there was more that could be said but let's begin with soai because the first time I heard that song on brat I was so moved you so beautifully and eloquently captured what it feels like to lose somebody and wonder what I what I missed yeah and then on this new version it's like now I want to celebrate the good times

M and how was it getting to a point with ag cook who obviously the two of you work closely with and loved Sophie like many people to be able to come to some form of therapeutic kind of realization you know what I mean like like like a celebration well you know it's funny and and I hope Alex wouldn't mind me sort of like blowing up his spot like this but we actually worked on both of those songs separately um so when I was working on the original uh I actually started that with um easy fun

um who is also like kind of PC music Affiliated uh good friend of Sophie's and also this other uh producer John shave who we had also worked with Sophie a lot together um and so Alex kind of came in a little later on that one and Finn easy fun and I we were very back and forth on the lyrical content of that initial song and then on so I um the Remix album version AG had played that edit at the boorder room that we did in February and I was like I love that like I

want to like do something on that and so that's kind of how you know like really I think I recorded it in July August maybe is that the start of the idea of actually doing a remix sub no I from before I made brat I knew I was like we're going to do a Remix album because we're going to make so many edits that it's going to just we're going to want to do it because there'll be so much music and it would be really cool to have like a kind of channel to like really

like put it all out there and reflect on the original album you further reflect on some of those sentiments and feelings that you'd established exactly and also I think you know I love the endless possibilities of music and particularly dance music I think it's so inherent to the genre you know you send out your acappellas like people DJ them people like mix them with other songs like new versions get born and you know especially now with Tik Tok like something goes viral that just was randomly played in the club and like I really wanted to

capture that energy on the record because I think it the music works so well for it so yeah it was always the plan but sorry so with soai the Remix album version yeah Ag and I it's like we don't we don't like to get super deep with lyrics you know he's very much like you do you I'll do me and I and that's what I love obviously that sounds like a very disconnect ected uh approach but I think the only way that we're able to do that is because we trust each other so much and

we know each other's strengths and weaknesses so much that it's so easy for us to just flow back and forth between each other and you know it's like I won't lie I think it's obviously to kind of like sit down and intricately talk about like each you know line for line uh of either of those two songs it's very like emotional experience emen to yeah so I think for both of us it's like we like to kind of just work on our you know in our like separate bubbles especially with with that song at least

from my perspective and then we kind of can just like look at each other and know how we feel um and uh yeah I'm really proud of that song and all of the memories are you know real real memories yeah myand driving the birthday cake like you know it's true we did get a we I I just shot the video for after the Afterparty which was like a two-day nighttime shoot and it was Sophie's birthday like the the day the morning that we' finished so they'd been partying and it was like 6:00 a.m. or or

maybe a bit later 8:00 a.m. and Ag and I went to gson we got this disgusting birthday cake plastic cover hor awful it was it was actually like a shape of a burger and then weing at Uber then this Uber driver was insane and I mean we really thought that it was we were going to go off The Edge and then yeah it was just a very like we were so delirious from being awake for two days and then we kind of like get to this party where people have been partying all night and we've

got this like Grace's birthday cake and it's really cool you it's it's beautifully painted um you've really captured it and it's emotional to hear you tell these stories and the fact that you do it so fast makes you really lean in and want to listen more carefully cuz you're going so quick I'm like I really want to hear every one of these stories I listen five times you know and like the DJ set with TG again how nervous she was and how sweet sweet she was Sophie was and just it's just I just it's rare

when somebody's willing to um pull back the curtains on these experiences and feel okay to share them even in tribute well you know I I kind of learned that actually from watching uh The 1975 on tour like obviously being with George and like going to their shows a lot and I just remember this um line selling petrol or whatever and that moment in the crowd like goes off no one knows who the is but you know it's one of their like old like childhood friends but I I always that moment in the show always really

fascinated me because I'm like oh it's like the crowd the audience really responds to these super specific personal references because it kind of is like a window into you know the artist's life I feel like uh all like you know the sad boys like young lean blade they do that a lot like these super like interpersonal references about you know their friends their to do with isolation I think as well aough that comes from sort of being removed either internally or externally geographically removed from things that you know you feel the need to to there's

there's a I always say this about Australian music like especially rock and roll from the '90s and 2000s it really it it built romance around the banality of suburban life right and I wanted to know about I really want to go to the corner store where you got that Pine of milk in the middle of nowhere yeah totally it welcomes you in and then on the flip side of that you've got might you know might say something stupid remix right with Maddie which is I don't think anyone listening to this is who knows the 1975

loves the 1975 recognizes the roller coaster M's been on in particular on that last tour um through that cycle is is going to ignore the the um pertinence of him being on that particular song at this moment in time yeah can you tell us a little bit about that decision how that was to work with him because there's some really moving lines in there some really sort of quite eye opening in there from him yeah and I really wanted him to do the song um he's like my brother now you know it's like and I

hope you wouldn't mind me saying this but it's like I have like endless amount of respect for him as a songwriter and him as a person but I sometimes want to strangle him you know and you know even before being with George you know like years and years ago I've always been been such a fan of their work he's thinking like of the way everything is digested in terms of you know their work their artwork their font their videos their everything it's it's very very holistic do you think it it it was had to say

on his behalf but did he recognize the opportunity to go on there and just be honest from his perspective we haven't heard from him for a while I mean I I can't speak on his behalf at all but I mean all I'll say from my perspective in terms of that show is like I just really enjoy uh people who you know take a risk in terms of what they're like putting out there artistically and I think you know that show is a little divisive but I think great art is [Applause] divisive M Secret [Music] [Applause]

let's talk a little bit about sympathy as a knife that was a standout on the First on first version of brat got a lot of people talking for lots of different reasons and everyone's got this that and whatever but what's cool about sympathy as a knife is that putting Ari on it somebody who even with the best of intentions as an artist still finds himself in a thrash over her personal life over how she looks over her behavior yeah I mean I mean she's been on a roller coaster as well so again it's like it's

like these remixes these these these new versions give people a chance to actually acknowledge these things with the honesty that you found the courage to present on the first album it's like I want a piece of that I want to say My Truth too and I think what's interesting about the Remix album you kind of mentioned this is you know I was writing the original record um when I was in like a very different position than I am you know post the release of brat working on the Remix album so my perspective has changed a

lot are you referring to like now you're in the glare you're in the yeah more so and and definitely you know comparative to other some other artist like not at all you know but like for me personally from where I was to now I'm definitely finding more than ever that my words are being picked apart taken out of context like I offend a lot more people by doing exactly the same things sort of nothing like groundbreaking here but I I suppose because you know no one really cared too much before what I was doing on

like a personal like day-to-day level um there was like I was a bit shocked you know and it kind of uh yeah it gave me so much empathy for um you know bigger artists who go through that on a daily basis and have been for years you know it's hard it's hard to be be constantly scrutinized for things that you have said it's hard for your words to be taken out of context and then really kind of feel that you just can't defend yourself because that would open a whole other count of worms you know

um and so sympathy as a knife the remix version it was kind of about me um recognizing that and me understanding that uh you know you're only really knowledgeable about your own position and once mine had changed and I had felt that I'd gone through you know a few interviews uh throughout this campaign where I'd felt perhaps that I was being a little bit manipulated or there were kind of other agendas at play and I'd never felt that before I had heard that Ari wanted to do something and I was like this is somebody who

definitely knows this feeling you know more so than me you know and so when she wanted to kind of take this phrase like it's a knife like obviously we're we're so you know lucky and um you know blessed to be in the situation that we're in all artists who are able to make music at the level that they're making it you know uh financially support themselves from creating art it's like it we are we're lucky because like not all artists get that you could be an amazing amazing musician no one's ever heard of youir but

I just want to say humility is an important part of everyday life but I've always struggled with the with the idea that artists should wield it just because you worked really hard and you get to do what you what you dreamed of doing for sure for sure I'm just saying like there is that I mean listen to this I'm complaining like on about six songs on the Remix album I'm like oh this is annoying this is annoying they're really good they're really genuine honest good it's good wi it's a good wi no I mean it's

like hey should I start a family or should I keep going cuz things are working hey it's like you're telling me that you know I'm better off being the old me or the new me like which one is like who's me 100% 100% I'm I'm not saying like sit down and shut up and get on with it like obviously that's never really been my like M I just wanted to say like we we I think we all recognize and that's part of the guilt that's part of the guilt complex you know we all recognize that

it's great that we're in this position getting to the things that we're doing like getting to like sit in this room like at this hotel la la la la la we get it like we and we're all very like aware that that is you know not the norm you know but on the flip side uh I think this life comes with things that are sort of unimaginable um until you're in it yes you know and hard to deal with yeah the most sensitive Souls often are the ones who who choose to create art and express

themselves through that Medium magic it make our lives timad to some success success leads to a lot of attention attention is not great for sensitive people there we go so it's like it's yeah and we and you know again I can only speak for myself but like I'm volatile I'm volatile and that's you know you can see it in my work like I'm not always going to say the right thing um but you know I doubt every single person watching this has not ever up once in their life like everyone up everyone says dumb everyone

does dumb everybody Hurts people even maybe you don't realize it but that's life that's human and even the people that I'm sort of talking about on the remix version of sympathy as a knife whether it be you know the friends who sort of make me feel like I'm being I don't know pressed down because of their opinions or the uh you know journalists who I feel have you know duped me or whatever everyone that they probably feel that way about somebody else like it's all this vicious cycle but if you can be honest about that

then then but you're being equally if not more honest about yourself you don't stop and you got man Square Garden tonight and I know you got to get ready for that and I know you got is Lord coming tonight I think as by the way the two of you dealing with the awkwardness yeah know on record it's pretty amazing it's pretty amazing and I love the whole album but I think that's really cool and it must have been really nice for for her to react the way she did to that yeah because you know I

was ready for her to like never speak to me again yeah cuz that could have been an outcome yeah cuz you called her the day before the came out so too late yes well New Zealand gets it first and and I guess she her she's still on like new realiz oh my God so you were like oh my god I've got to make now yes but I was like I've got to tell you about this song and she was like yeah I've heard it I was like how have you heard it it's not out but

because she's got like the new Zeal she know about she pick up on it she was like I can guess which one it is and so I was like you know but she was so cool and I was like you know we sent these voice notes back and forth and it's just so rare to acknowledge it yeah yeah well I so I sort of had always wondered whether she would possibly want to kind of do a response on right the remix because this was like as I said i' always wanted to do this Remix album

but she actually suggested it first she was like wouldn't it be cool if I did this response and I was like oh my God I can't believe this happening yes and it was so quick I mean she said that on I think the the Friday and she sent me the thing by Monday CU she felt it right she related from that perspective yeah I think about it all the time yes this is a really it's moving its original form it's even more moving in in in in the remix form um it says a lot about

this kind of the weight of expectation self perpetu expectation of ambition success and validation and then coming up to this point of like I'm scared I'm going to run out of time which some people might see as like life or career whatever it could be about also running out of time in terms of like having another life yeah right and actually actually and and and building something and how did it feel to write that acknowledge it the courage to release it knowing that it really it tells a very honest true story between about those two

parallel things that are constantly buying for for your attention absolutely you know I I wasn't super worried about the response cuz I played it to a couple of my friends who you know sort of similar age maybe a little older than me in long-term relationships haven't even thought about like kids or you know very like careerist and they were like yeah I like totally get this like and found it very emotional and I was like oh that's cool the thing I was actually more worried about with that song is like you and I kind of

know like the musical reference of that song and I was kind of like I don't know if he's gonna no not if he I he he's cool he's cool and I actually really wanted Mike to do something for the remix record it didn't quite happen but I was actually more just like are like people going to get this like are my like fans going of like Get what this what this reference is like are they streets fans or either they people really get it or people were like why is she singing like this why is

she doing this kind of cadence like this song is crazy like you know so that was actually the thing I was most sort of worried about and then also that thing of like you know never wanting to Veer into like a cosplay or like a you do you know what I mean like too going like too hard in that way so it was it was finding the balance of that that I was it's beautifully subtle I mean it's you feel the same sense ofing you get when Mike SK presents his honests over music it's he

has an amazing ability to cut to the heart of the matter and so do you and that's very evident on brat um yeah he was a big reference actually for this record like just in terms of his his whole tone I mean there's a few references like in club Classics I say like tight light mic kind of flow yeah I want to be blinded by the lights and we kept playing this like cult classic not bestseller he did something so truly unique and uh you know kind of something that only he could really do and

and that's what the essence of brat is it's like tapping into that part of yourself that only you can access like it's kind of ignoring all the things that sort of make you palatable or you know easily comparable to others that may allow you to fit into any kind of like premeditated mold and actually it's about embracing the flaws of yourself your work the things that you think about and kind of running with them and I and I feel that he's always sort of done that I mean he's always sort of like talked about to

be honest like I'm really just really realizing this now as I say it but here like the partying versus the morning after like that's been like such a huge lyrical touch point for him are you aware of where the line is like like you're having the best time of your life in terms of finally achieving the level of success and validation that everyone hoped that you were fans we all hoped you would achieve that the world would know who you are and recognize the Brilliance and the genius of what it is that you do that's

happening in real time and you're going to share it with your friends you're out with Troy having the time of your life you know yeah and um and I know you'll pivot somewhere else all together next time probably be a folk record or some yeah or maybe yeah maybe guess we going with John Hopkins make a red end yeah Spen about all of those options yeah I think it's probably like no music for a while like you know like quite a while and I also just like I want to act now so I'm more I'm

there I'm already there I'm like thinking about that stuff a little bit more um because I always think it's like what would be like the coolest thing you know it's like when we got Chloe 7y in the 360 video I like really like never in a million years thought that she would say yes because she's like the coolest woman in the world you know and so now I'm just kind of like okay like if Chloe was a musician and she was making like brat like what would she do like I don't think she I mean

I could be wrong but I feel like she wouldn't be like I'm making another record feel like she'd go and like do something different do something else so I'm like that's cool what would Chloe do you know every girl asks that question trust me Addison's asking it I'm asking it like she's just she's the best it's been really great to see you in this brief window of time in the middle of all of this thrash this world live forever so it's awesome that you gave us so much honesty and thought and and just reflected on

this time thank you and thanks for wanting to do this with me I always watch these you know I know I always watch these and I've always wanted to do one so thank you thank you well it's been really awesome and um what ever comes next I can't wait to talk to you again and see you again and just watch it all unfold it's it's what an adventure thanks yeah thank you