#1 Parenting Psychologist: What Is Over-Parenting & Are You Doing It?

it used to be you have a baby develop the secure attachment and that's it our job is not to fix it's to be there she has a podcast called raising good humans psychologist Alisa prman not only can you not be perfect but it's actually worse for your kids I feel like discipline is so controversial I think of it as all feelings are welcome all behaviors are not should everyone be a parent whoa we're through to announce that we've reached 3 million subscribers we're incredibly grateful for each and every one of you if you enjoyed this

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to not miss any of these episodes if you think of someone who would love this episode send it to them to make their day the number one Health and Wellness podcast J shett J shett the one the only J shett hey everyone welcome back to on purpose I know that you come back here every week to become happier healthier and more healed and it's my commitment to go and find experts thought leaders and thinkers that can help you on your journey to make better decisions to change habits and to transform your mindset now I don't

think there's potentially a more important topic than the one we're discussing today because I think raising good humans raising the future generation ation and learning how to improve ourselves in the process is probably one of the most life-changing Journeys that any of us ever go on and today's guest is someone who has so many great insights so many great takeaways so many wonderful methods that we can all apply in our daily lives to become better at being a good human and raising good humans in the process I'm speaking about Dr Alisa prman she's a developmental

psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working with families and the health healthare providers who care for them Alisa is also the host of the podcast raising good humans if you're not listening already go ahead and subscribe and today we're talking about her new book that's out called the five principles of parenting your essential guide to raising good humans please welcome to on purpose Elisa prman Elisa it's great to have you here I'm so thrilled to be here a thank you for being here honestly I'm uh really excited to dive in as I've been talking

about and I wanted to get straight into this because I have so many questions I want to ask you and I want to start off with what I believe is the most important one and I feel in our society is often missed forgotten avoided not even a thought and the question is should everyone be a parent whoa um I don't think we can presume to say what anybody should or shouldn't be other than the what whatever your definition of good human is and so if that entails bringing kids into this world if that's your calling

I think you must do it in whatever way that works out but not everybody wants that and it's a it's you know it's a an assumption that we probably shouldn't be making absolutely for those who want children or have always thought they've wanted children what would you encourage people to think about before diving in because I often feel that like so many things in society whether it's the degree we end up studying or the job we get out of college or getting married or having children it almost feels like we're on a conveyor belt and

we don't really stop to pause and reflect which I know is one of your key principles we don't often stop and think should we are we ready what are the qualifications what's useful and and we just dive in and and it's interesting that you know and I've heard many people talk about this I think I spoke to Kristen Bell and Dax about this at one point and they were talking about how like you just get to come back from a hospital with a baby I know there's no exam there's no test and like you spend

all these years studying for a degree or you spend a couple of years practicing how to drive or whatever it may be but all of a sudden you have a baby without a license and nothing else yeah and so what are some of the things you'd encourage people to think about even before becoming a parent that you think would help them in the process of being a parent I mean ideally we all are thinking about this before we become parents because it just that reflection of like how did I get here how do we come

to be who we are which I think is the sort of Crux of what developmental science is is how do we get to be who we are and what then happened in that process that I want to bring to Parenting and what do I want to let go of and if you take the time to reflect then you can be intentional about your parenting so the idea that we can do this before we have kids if you are in a position to talk to your partner about that and really think through that talk to yourself

about that you can have a mission statement for how you want to be as a parent it's not like what your kid's going to be like cuz you have no idea what your kids's going to be like that's a fantasy that you can decide but we we can't they are whatever seed is planted is planted and that flower blooms but we have so much capacity to be intentional and so that reflection before you're even trying to have kids is so beneficial and it's actually linked with secure attachment relationships oh wow talk to me about that

connection I didn't realize that yeah so one of the things in the research on human development is that having a secure attachment relationship with your child or with you know as the child has with one caregiver and that is you know a whole other or probably part of this conversation it's so deeply protective it buffers the impact of trauma it's so important and not everybody grew up with that so about 65% of us came from secure attachment relationships if we didn't and we reflect back and we think through what was going on how we came

to be who we are how we learned how to be loved how we experienced love how we gave love we then have a much higher chance of turning What could would have been just an autopilot to a different kind of relationship into this secure attachment now I know where everyone's thinking right now they're thinking I wish you told me this five years ago you would have saved me right like I feel like a lot of our listeners may have already had children and and it's natural again I'm not judging anyone it's it's a it's such

a part of our community and society and and then I think a lot of people especially our community who is really smart and thoughtful and intentional and listens and goes you know what actually I I realized that but I've already had children now and I feel like I've made mistakes what are some of the most common mistakes people come up to you with where they're feeling guilt and shame and I and I feel so sad for that because again you couldn't have known you didn't know and now that you know as my Angelou said now

you know better you can do better what have you seen are some of the biggest mistakes people carry around as guilt and shame when their when they have become parents well I think I so importantly attachment relationship are Dynamic so you aren't just like it used to be we used to think like you're e you know you have a baby you develop the secure attachment it's like a bond and that's it but we know now it's Dynamic and so if you have a 5-year-old or a 16-year-old or a 35-year-old you can still grow that healthy

attachment relationship so you can change and that's what your audience knows all the time and it's true about relation ship with your kids but I think that shame is from thinking like I wasn't there enough there's shame in not being able to fix whatever your child's going through and what I hope everybody like gets from certainly this conversation is that our job is not to fix it's to be there and that's what secure attachment is even in your adult relationships it's like who can sit with me through all of these experience expences through these feelings

because we're not like the idea of being happy isn't really about always being happy it's about knowing you can come back from whatever it is that you're going through and you will be happy again and if our kids experience the range of things that come their way and they know that they have someone sort of sitting by their side they end up in this relationship that is securely attached and it's not not like oneand done and if it didn't you know that's the thing that I think is the trickiest is feeling like I'm responsible for

my child's constant happiness I have to feel ashamed if I wasn't there for every moment or if I couldn't fix that feeling which you can't as you know and um and I think sometimes people feel like they're maybe better or worse at different stages and so there's you know like this assumption that we're GNA kind of know what to do like the idea that you do come home from the hospital and you're just like okay I guess I just feel like in adulthood this happens all the time like I remember just the first time I

was you know in my 20s and I had my own apartment and I was like wait I can just decide what I'm doing I can open a bottle of wine like there were things that I still was like I'm going it's bizarre and now like that I'm the last you know person in charge of whatever and there's nobody that I'm supposed to ask and I can make a decision I'm still kind of like is that okay and so the idea that you're just like in charge of raising a whole human being or more is really

daunting and we all kind of think everybody else knows we don't know yeah and and I think I those two things really resonated with me this idea of I want to fix all their problems and I'm not there for them enough and I can feel like I can obviously only relate to them theoretically from a parenting standpoint but I can relate to them in my other relationship so whether it's with my younger sister or whether it's with my wife or whether it's with the people I love in my life and I can only imagine how

that is Amplified with a child that's your you know that feeling and so how do you carry that weight and almost loosen that control that is naturally it feels so got Instinct correct right it doesn't feel like that's a bad idea it feels like that's the best thing that's what you were made for and then you're failing at it and so how how you how do you do what you just said how do you carry that weight at the same time as recognized that you need to put it down I mean I think that that's

where the idea of repair and the what we know about repair air comes in is that in the same way that we build muscles like you need tiny little ruptures in the muscles to grow stronger muscles we have to have tiny moments of disrepair of not being exactly the right parent of not being able to fix the feeling of the feeling being really really hard of the experience being a fail in order to grow stronger relationships and so I think taking the weight off is much more easy or comes by more easily when you remind

yourself like I'm actually building this muscle for my child and for me so every mistake is is to me this like okay I just because you have this relationship because you're invested because you're intentional you're going to blow it you're not going to be able to fix it you're going to feel like oh my god did I ruin my kid and no you invested in resilience build building because you're there if you were like oh well you know like rot and suffer that's a totally different thing but nobody listening to this is is that yeah

and so I think that lifts the weight of not only can you not be perfect and not only can you not fix everything but it's actually worse for your kids and it is important to acknowledge what you said which is it's still appropriate to want to of course like you you should I think we all want to to help the people we love and and it's it is Amplified with the people that you are raising because it's like I can make this better I have capacity to change this to call the school to call the

friend to change the system to move to whatever but when we can get a little bit more sort of accepting of the fact that it is so hard to watch someone struggle but when they're struggling next to you and you can be there for them and help them understand that that is part of being a person it's not dangerous feelings are not dangerous you're giving them such a gift that that's where I think you can let go of the weight wow yeah I think when I'm listening to I'm thinking it takes almost the same amount

of energy to shame yourself as it does to shift yourself oh wow yeah right this idea of I'm going to sit here and keep replaying the mistake I made and the wrong thing I said and how I messed up in this moment or I do reflect on that as you would say I do reflect on that and now I know what I need to say next time and what I need to say now and how to behave differently and that takes the same amount of time it takes the same amount of energy it takes the

same amount of effort but our negativity bias naturally takes us into that it's like a spiral Spiral yeah and just self judgment self-criticism that we then pass down on to our children as they see us do that and then you're you know when you when you shift it you're actually building the very strength of the relationship that you're lamenting because of the mistake yes yeah when you when you were saying that I was thinking about I almost feel like when I speak to a lot of parents as well and I speak to my community and

audience there's a feeling of I went through something I never want my kids to go through that right or I didn't get this opportunity I really want them to get this opportunity so our life becomes this mirror projection of what I've called before the gifts and gaps in our life so if our parents gave us gifts we we want them to have those same gifts and if our parents left gaps we want to fill those gaps for the kids and so in that mindset how does that mindset create challenges and issues and how do we

actually tweak and refine that I mean I think we overcorrect and so if we're reflective and we can say okay this is the thing I really didn't have and I really want my kids to have but let me be aware that that doesn't mean that I should forget about for example boundaries you know if I didn't receive a lot of affection and love and connection am I going to be so worried that I'm not giving enough of that to my child that I'm scared of the limits and boundaries that are necessary for their safety I

think that happens all the time and so it's all middle path you know like if we notice that something really really matters to us can we let it matter without overcorrecting and forgetting about these other things yeah and that's so hard I know it's such a challenge like I feel like that controller inside of us and and I feel that there's such a experience that we're having of what we're trying to heal in our children is what we're trying to heal in ourselves and so there's this constant belief that I think I'm trying to heal

them but really I'm just preaching to myself and processing something internal but our self-awareness is so warped sometimes or hidden that we can't see that we think we're doing it just for the benefit how do you break that Veil like how do you kind of how do you reflect effectively I think that's the question I'm asking effective reflecting yeah what is effective reflection because I think we can all Ponder and maybe our reflection takes us as far as yeah you know my parents like always forgot my birthday I won't forget my kids birthday I'll I'll

do it right or yeah you know my my dad never turned up to my sports games and so if my kids sports like I'm not going to miss a thing yeah yeah so like that's good but but what is the most effective version of reflection that makes it such a big part of your five principles so I think if you can write down like set a timer and for 5 minutes and write down the story of who you are as a parent that your child's going to explain to their grandchildren oh wow just five minutes

who are who are they describing and then Circle the words that really keep coming up and make that your mission like this is my mission statement as a parent and I now know sort of my North Star and within that framework I'm going to reflect and decide if it's still working or am I overcorrecting so like for example if one of the things that keeps coming up is I want to be present I want to be present I want to be present and the way you're translating it is you're not missing a game to the

point where your child doesn't know how to enjoy themselves without the audience to the point where it feels like they are so the center of your universe that they are worried that you are not a person without them then you would want to Pivot and say I can be present without being invasive you know but I think that that's the the easiest way is to check into how is this I mean in a scientific paper you'd say how's this operationalized and in life I would genuinely do that exercise regularly like kind of every year and

check in and the other thing that I think is very interesting about it is if you figure out kind of what your mission statement is like in this as this parent or in this household if you're doing it with your co-parent or again you can keep it to yourself but as your kids get older if you say to them my mission in this as a parent is this you know these three things were really important to me what do you think my mission or our mission statement is and if your kids come back to you

as they're older and they're and you're like kindness empathy and presence and they're like education per persistence and money that's okay yeah but then it's a moment to say huh there's one of two things happening here either I'm not parenting in the way that I mean to cuz the messaging is clearly not getting across or I'm not honest with myself about what I'm really going for cuz there's no right or wrong no but it's more like how do I keep checking in with it so that that reflection is taken into action hey you're just catching

me as I have my Midday pick me up I'm sure you've heard about juny Ry and I put all of our love into creating this amazing drink it's full of New Tropics and adaptogens great for the that little boost of energy enhance focused and a happy mind and guess what it's only five calories and absolutely no sugar I hope you're going to try it out it's available right now at Target if you're a Target shopper head there right now and at Sprouts as well this summer go grab your juny it's so interesting how two people

can have the exact same experience with the same parents yet respond so differently yeah I played a lot of sports growing up and my mom would be taking care of my sister and rarely would my dad show up and I took that and I have a good relationship with my dad now and I took that as a sign of I got to decide who I wanted to be and it's been probably one of the best things that ever happened to me that my dad didn't show up because I had no one to impress apart from

myself yes and I love that because till this day I make decisions based on not completely I have challenges too but I I make whole wholly I will reflect on decisions as to how do I feel about this because I'm the person that I I have to live with and I think that's a one of my favorite qualities that I've been able to gain in life but I also know a lot of people who've been through the same thing and they've just feel abandoned they feel discouraged they feel like no one was ever there for

them they they weren't able to learn self- validation in the process and it's almost like as parents when you're trying to overcorrect it's like you don't know how a child is going to respond to your presence or your absence and I think we can kind of get into a whirlwind around that and I like what you're saying this idea of actually reflect with them totally is such a beautiful way as they get older of like what does that mean and and I think that requires such a maturity on a parents part because it's hard to

do that it is it is but then you get to also model for your kids this thing that we wish maybe was modeled for us reflection yes and also just to your point about the different responses and I write about this in the book and is a big part of the literature on developmental science but temperament really is real and I like how Dr Thomas boisey talks about it as orchids dandelions and then later um folks said t they studied tulips but it's like a way of looking at how the environment influences you that's kind

of you're born this way right you come into this world has nothing to do with anything that your parents have done you you are responding to to the wind in a different way than the next child and so an orchid is going to thrive in certain sunlight water and soil but we've all or maybe not all of us but I certainly have tried to raise orchids and they're like it's like a stump yes because I just wasn't I wasn't sensitive enough to that particular flower's need and so I I learned about the plants that needed

less and I could fill my house with those but you can't do that with kids and so but like a dandelion child and these are real like they studied these Orchid babies for real like as babies not as actual flowers but just label them as orchids and dandelions and a dandelion is probably going to grow with just like your basic sunlight water and soil your basic love connection and some boundaries and rules and they're they're going to go to the game not go to the game it's they they're going to be fine but if you

if you have a kid that isn't thriving and that's happening then it's also it's very courageous it's very vulnerable but asking ourselves like what do I need to give in order for this flower to bloom and it's going to be different for every child so it's not like you have one way to parent and that's it but you know and it's not as exhausting as it sounds it's more just like okay this one cuz you see it pretty quickly like as you get to know your kids you're like this one notices the sound of the

air conditioning more easily this one does not notice if anything is going on like they're just sort of moving around the world and nothing's getting to them other kids are like this tag is itchy it's temperament it's not because you know the parent was over coddling it's like it you can amplify these things of course like you could take a kid who's very sensitive ignore their needs ignore their needs ignore their needs and they're probably going to be extra needy or you can take a kid who's extra sensitive and turn that sensitivity into beautiful empathy

and creativity and curiosity and thoughtfulness but you're still dealing with the same sensitivity so I just think that recalling that you could go through experiences like not having a parent come to your game and know let's say you have a kid and you're like my dad never came to the games and this is why I'm kind of amazing at knowing what I need and knowing that I'm not doing it for everybody else and I'm not performing to please a parent but then if if your child says can you please come to a game yeah you

can't apply that you have to say yes but I think what would be great is that you know in your heart yes I'm going to go to some of those games but I don't have to go to all those games in order for this child to thrive and that's the gift of the lesson that you got from your father I love that I I I so appreciate the Nuance of that and the sensitivity of that because I think that's where we trip ourselves up where it's like oh that's the lesson I learned I don't need

to go to any games they'll learn Independence because that's what I learn right they are a different they're an orid or whatever else it may be and that lack of sensitivity and that lack of connectivity with them and noticing their temperament and noticing their environment that they need is is often what happens and I also find that there's this kind of what you were saying with this idea of when we're noticing these things in them when we notice inadequacies or lacks in a child in what we perceive to be an inadequacy it's because we're having

this feeling of we're inadequate because we haven't been able to have them not have that issue yeah and I find that we're trying to solve it so that we can solve that inadequacy inside of ourselves and then when it doesn't solve and then we keep thinking well it must be me it must be me what's me how do how do you process that thought or what's a what's a healthy practice to have when that seems to be a recurring theme you know it's really interesting because as you were saying that I was thinking about what

really pisses me off like what what when do I get when do I disappoint myself as a mother and it's when my kids are doing something that I feel is hard for them or they get hurt or something is like they should be better at this because of my parenting and I was the one who blew it and so my anger is not at all at them but it comes out it can come out at them which is the only thing that sort of motivates me to deal with it because we we just feel like

such failures and a lot of the time it's just like wait a second can I also look at what what's the benefit of having something different going on for this child like maybe it means that they're going to see things in a clearer way or maybe it means that because this is bothering them they're going to pay attention now I don't know what this is but like because you know this is a silly example but let's say itchy tags bother them and there are sensory issues and all sorts of things but we're not getting into

that but because itchy tags bother them and they really like soft clothing and there's you're like I've raised this kid who can't function in the world and now I'm mad at myself cuz I'm like just deal with it but if you could say I wonder if this is go what what strength will this bring for them instead of looking at it as a weakness is it possibly just different than you because one of the things about temperament is also like what kind of flower are you cuz there's something that um researchers have long looked at

which is it's called goodness of fit and when a parent and a child has a good fit their temperament matches well they tend to do better and so they're not going to change but we have more capacity to sort of pay attention to that and so another thing that we can think about is like what is my temperament how do I respond to the environment and why is that bothering me and and also if you feel like because I I would say an example that's that happens a lot is if you have a kid who's

more sensitive and you're just like kind of a dandelion it's annoying you know you have to take a lot more care and a lot more time but you could have one parent who's like I'm so sensitive they're so sensitive I'm going to be so attuned that maybe it's too much maybe maybe they won't learn you know so it's again back to paying attention then coming to the middle of it and saying okay one of us let's say you have two parents and you can say one of us is able to notice those sensitive moments we're

able to sort of be attuned so I'm going to pay less attention to that skill that I have so naturally and I'm going to focus on not panicking when my kid is uncomfortable but maybe the more dandelion like parent is going to say I think I've got the not worrying so much about them and thinking they can handle it so I'm going to focus on being more attuned to what's going on for them and so we just like it's this you know constant sort of it's not hard though it's I think it's interesting I think

if you look at it as curious and interesting it's not like oh my God how much is there to think about yeah but it's just like in there small moments you know we're just kind of paying attention and when you have that capacity to give attention to things it's it it's not that hard it's what's hard is that we just want it to be right all the time and not hard but the like when you let go of it and you're just like all right my tendency is this I'm going to I'm going to go

on the other side of it and challenge myself more often than not 55% of the time I think you can really develop incredible relationships with your partner with your kids because you're basically saying I'm not going to assume that you and I are the same person I'm not telling the same story I'm going to let you unfold as you are and I'm going to give you a little bit of my you know like what I can offer are there different forms of communicating with children that work at different ages in their Journey like are there

certain types of communication or forms of communication that are more effective between Z and five 5 and 10 10 and 15 or or anything like that or how how do you see that communication evolving over ages I guess I think the first five years there's a lot more physical communication even though of course we want to use our words because the more exposure to language you have the more likely you are to have you know sophisticated language but physical touch is so effective and a lot of times we try to talk young children like out

of feelings and those are the times that I really want to encourage people to let their nervous system do the talking so you just kind of put your hand on your heart take a breath remind yourself that whatever is going on for them they're safe they're just upset and so you're lending them your nervous system but you're not telling them you're not like you're safe you're going to be okay you're just upset that you didn't get a blue cup and you really wanted it you're more like reminding yourself of that quietly you don't need to

use words and then over time you can use more words but in general we use too many words I say I say using so many words wow that's interesting and and the reason for that is because our kids only have so much capacity to listen and a lot of the things that that they're learning from us are watching and borrowing our nervous system so rather than saying you know whether or not something is worthy of freaking out about or telling them how to feel they could just see that it's not scaring you so instead of

saying don't be scared they can be scared but they're watching you not be scared and like a flight attendant I mean this is this shows you my issues but like I am not a great flyer though I fly a lot and I always choose the seat close enough to the flight attendant because I just want to see how they're doing and then if there's turbulence I feel like I they have enough experience in this world in this gig of flying that if it were worrisome I would pick up on it and it's the same thing

if our kids are looking at us come on like so we don't have to say so many words but we do have have to pay attention to what's going on inside of us that's such a good example that is so interesting I'm like I I don't I fly a lot I I'm not afraid of flying but if there's bad turbulence that's the first thing I do do right is I try and look at how they're doing and and it doesn't matter whether they turn on the thing and say hey there's turbulence put your belts on

I'm watching you're looking at their face yeah you're looking at their face body language so real yeah wow that's such a great example and you never think about that because you think it's the word that do the communication and and you're so right that that often you don't believe the words or you don't feel the words exactly and I want our kids to believe us and so if we are going to use words we have to believe them too like if you said no no no I'm not upset but you're upset it's a mixed message

and so over time your kids aren't quite they're not going to believe that they can read people properly cuz it's like what's really going on so I think part of it is fewer words and then when you use words tell the truth I mean within developmental reason yes I asked a couple of people around what questions they'd be interested in asking and I think the two big things that came up which I'm sure you hear a lot of were were discipline and encouragement like the two opposite things it's like this seems like two common parents

activities are disciplining and and trying to encourage or or nurture and so I want to talk about each of those let's start with disciplining what is the what is the right approach to discipline in a way as you talk about creates resilience yeah as opposed to I guess if we had a mission statement for disciplining traditionally it would be to get things right to do things well to know what is good and bad I feel those would be traditional metrics of discipline yeah what would you say the new metrics and and how does healthy what

is healthy discip look like to lead to resilience okay I feel like discipline is so controversial um but I think of it as all feelings are welcome all behaviors are not so if I had to sum it up and I think we do think of discipline as punishment versus teaching and it's teaching and um if we're teaching how to move through the world and if we're teaching kind of what's expected what are boundaries and they're real like they are for your emotional and physical safety MH and you're not just doing them to control but you

actually are like no this is a big deal because it actually influences your growth and development it's not just for my entertainment then your kids trust you a little bit more and the relationship is stronger but I think the key with discipline is not being afraid of how our kids react to it and having the strength of purpose and belief that if they do have a negative reaction to it we can love them all the way through it but we're not going to change our minds about it cuz that's where it gets messy is that

and I I I think this is partly my whole field and Industry if we're talking all about how important the relationship is and then you have this limit that you set like this is my expectation of you and your child doesn't like it this simply like I you know I take the phone away at night or the iPad or whatever and your child is freaking out about it then you go well now I've messed with the relationship and so I guess I should they're crying and I need to like get back in there so okay

I'll give you more time or whatever it is and that's where we get confused I think if parents really understood that feelings aren't dangerous that kids aren't going to say thank you for the boundaries and limits that we set and that we set them with the intention of physical and emotional safety about not just them but other people people like we're not just raising kids in a vacuum they have to move through the world and think about community and other humans and so what's comfortable for them might not be thoughtful to other people and so

it's that balance between be there for yourself but also not to the extent that you can't you know that you're entitled and don't respect that there other people in the world yeah it's I I remember and I think my my mom got that right from why I can or at least followed that advice because I remember in my time it was a bit easier because we were just playing video games like that was the closest thing we had to a mobile phone right and it's I remember I'd get home from school and I was allowed

to watch TV for 30 minutes and play video games for 30 minutes and after that to do homework then we'd have dinner and then whatever that you know and I remember that that hour was like something I looked forward to every single day because I'd get to watch whether it was The Simpsons or when I got older like Fresh Prince of Bel or whatever it was and then and and those rules kind of changed over time where I was like okay now you get a bit more PlayStation time or whatever else it may have been

as I got older but I now look back and really valued the fact that I had these limits and rules and discipline because it's created a healthy level of discipline that I value today in me and yeah of course when I was a kid I didn't enjoy it like I didn't want to do my homework and turn off the te like who does want to do there but I feel like it was it's interesting how yeah my I don't think my parents negotiated with me or bargained with me with that stuff it was just like

no that's just how it is and as uncomfortable it probably was for them that that I hated them at that time they were will you know at the time yeah they were willing to live with that and and I guess because it was for your benefit correct and I guess that's the hard part right it's like we want you want your kid to love you and like you and and it it's not fun not being liked by someone especially when you're trying to help them yes and you're trying to do good for them no it's

true cuz it's like you I mean there's three kind of parenting Styles outside of neglectful which is not you know that's a whole other thing but there's like the permissive which is best friend parenting and it is so sensitive and they do like you and you can play as many video games as you want and all that's great except for you have no nobody's steering the ship and so it actually can lead to anxiety and depression and a sense that you are too responsible for things and the other side of it is authoritarian where it's

fear-based and it's just rules and it's just because I said so but without the like I know you really love doing this and I wouldn't stop you from doing it if I didn't know that it was better for your brain or whatever so that's the middle path of like authoritative where you're sensitive but you stick with your limits and boundaries because you know that that's going to benefit your kids and then you start to cuz it's about our comfort like how much can I handle of you being upset with the boundary that I set set

it's not like anything else it's really just looking at ourselves and saying what is my capacity for handling the discomfort knowing that I've made this choice because it's for my child's benefit because they're definitely not going to be like thank you so much and so when people say like this strategy isn't working I'm like that's not the goal the goal isn't for your kids to say oh thanks for explaining now I'm just was going to listen right that's so interesting isn't it it's like as as humans and as adults we believe that getting something right

means knowing the right thing to say and getting the right response which is a response we want or agree with and the truth is half the time when you're doing the right thing you rarely get a response in that moment that is aligned with what you want like I I always said to for me I feel like you know up until 11 I was a pretty good kid and obedient and then 11 to 21 I was totally the opposite and my parents were wrong about everything or maybe 14 to 21 and then when you're kind

of like 25 you're like yeah you know what my parents were good like my parents were right about so many things and I'm so grateful to them and and all the rest of it like that kind of overarching feeling comes out which yeah as a 15-year-old you know you didn't have and and it's almost like we want them to display this like if if my parents wanted me to display gratitude at 15 it was never going to happen right no that's a great example actually yeah right but we all we all believe that we're the

exception that our kids will do that yeah and yet we were also The Ungrateful kid right it's almost I find it because I'm not a parent I find it better to reflect on what I was like as a kid I know my parents had good intentions I know they tried their best I still chose to do things they would never agree with and I still chose to behave in ways and it wasn't because they did anything wrong it was just because I was a kid you were being a developing human your description of yourself mapping

with brain development and it tracks right like 11 to 14 maybe you were just beginning to experiment with pushing them away and push back and rebellion and then you know that's like puberty happens hormones change then there's you know 14 to till you were in your 20s your prefrontal cortex doesn't fully develop till 18 to 28 and boys it's later so it's it's usually not the 18 um and so you are more you know they say all gas no breaks um and so all the things you're talking about are mapping with where your brain was

at the time and as an adolescent you're about to leave the nest and so you're supposed to start to learn how to reject and so it's this like Push Pull ideally there's still moments of connection and you know maybe they didn't you know it's possible I don't know but it's possible that they felt rejected by your rebellion and then you you know your pushing away then worked and so they didn't come toward you and say like despite all of this like we love you very much or maybe they did um but those are times of

tension and you're supposed to by the time you're you're ready to go out into the world you have to feel like you you know you should and can and if it was just like cozy and delicious at all times at home and and there was none of that tension you wouldn't be motivated to grow up and go on so it all makes sense that is I've never heard it put that way and I've never thought of it that way that is such a fascinating point that in order to leave the pack you have to have

a sense of rejection autonomy and Independence just in the idea of development yeah like there has to be that feeling of I can do it on my own and I will figure it out and and yeah no my my parents I think honestly we we able individually with me to be like my I I I always feel that my mom was able to be that person who I always feel even till this day is always there for me but never smothering or controlling in that way and so it's uh it's been a really like I

know that if no matter what was to happen I could always like my mom my mom would catch me yeah and I know that but that's what's given me the confidence to not have to rely on it yeah because it's it's there and I know that deeply yeah it's just there and and with my dad he's he was a lot more aloof but like I said that worked good for me because it helped me chart my own path and and you know build that which is interesting I wanted to dive in a couple of things

that stood out to me from the book that I've Dogg eared here because got so many little parts that I loved uh that I wanted to talk about one of the things I was thinking about because you talk about here the idea of having a parent who's helping us through hard times and I was thinking I think one of the hardest thing about a young person going through a hard time is they don't have the vocabulary to talk about it I me even adults but kids especially even adult yeah even adults like you know it's

hard even to ask your partner when they're going through a tough time let alone a child that and and I think with our children we try harder often than we try with our partners but with your child you're like tell me what's going on like I want to know I'm here to help you and they're like I don't know like go away like I don't know what I'm going through right walk us through that path and that process because again we feel so rejected and so distant and it almost feels like we're failing but the

real issue here is we can't get them to open up and therefore we can't help yeah I mean it's so hard because if you push and for a lot of some kids are like disclosers like we there are people I was like let me tell you let me tell you everything mom to the point where she was probably like I I really don't need to know this much but um but then there are the more closed in closed up kids and also it just depends on your vocabulary that you've grown up with which is I

think that going back to like even when you have limits and rules you want your kids to know as you're describing your mom that they have you so if you do mess up y you can still go to them toally instead of being terrified and so that's this weird thing where it's like here are my expectations also I want to name the fact that you're going to blow it sometimes and I want to be the person you come to yeah and that's something to say not when they're struggling and I think part of the reason

why it's hard to get kids to open up is because we try to get in there when they're in the center of the struggle yes instead of like building the vocabulary and connection outside of it so you have the conversations and you give the language when nobody's In the Heat of the Moment so that when the heat of the moment comes they already know that they can come to you and you can just say to them I can tell something's going on I'm here whenever or if everh and then just leave space A lot of

times doing something with a kid who's not opening up like going for a drive even so you're not looking at each other and you know I can't think of any sport right now cuz I'm not super sporty but you know like playing I'm like what is it called when one does a game with someone pickle ballis so you go play pickle ball yeah you're playing pickle ball it's going to come up but you want to just like put little tiny moments where you say I'm askable I'm tellable and I'm not going to say anything and

one of the things that helps is that when your kids do tell you something you say thank you for telling me before you have any other reaction and that may be your only reaction and then you give them a little space and then you say is there anything I can do and it's not you know you can fix it it's is there anything I can I can do to be supportive of you right now and the other thing is like I this is developmental too but when you think about teenagers versus young kids with younger

kids you want to be this is going to sound ridiculous if you don't think about animals this way but I do so tell me if resonates but you kind of want to be a dog you're waging your tail when you're excited to see them you're always there and you're like really enthusiastic and they need that but then as they get older imagine your 11 to 25y old self you need to be a cat so you're like a little you're there you're always around you're not you might you're touching their feet like you're not overly on

top of them but if they're interested they can come to you but you're not going anywhere so it's like it's this safe thing where you're there for them but it's it's not so intense and then they have the opportunity to open up a little bit and when they do you don't pounce like a dog you stay a cat who's like welcoming the information but not you know saying oh my God and then you know cuz you don't want your kids to think you can't handle my truth so I'm not you're not the person to tell

yeah and I feel that's the hardest time to be the cat because you're scared about them getting involved in the worst stuff like whether it's drugs or um you know addiction to social media or getting involved in the wrong circles like that's the age at which it's going to happen yeah it's terrifying so yeah it's terrifying so they're and they're getting a driver's license they can drink now you know as you know as they get older it's like it's almost like those are the times where you want to be more yeah handson and you are

that's why I say you're physically present like I think Toddlers and teenagers need you more present than anybody but we think teenagers are like off on their own and whatever but you're home like if they're going to a party you're home to greet them and look into their eyes so you don't need to ask if they've been drinking because you will know when you hug them and look in their eyes and you can have a conversation in a different kind of way than If you're sort of like I'm out you're out I you're older you

you know take an Uber don't drive drunk I'll see you tomorrow so I think your presence is important but the the the sense that you're like kind of all over them verbally has you have to pull back a little bit and it's terrifying but if you've cultivated the relationship and you've set the expectations from you know about substances and social media and whatever it's easier but when something's really bothering them what they need is is to know that they don't have to explain it and they can just come to you and be sad what's a

good way to have that social media substance conversation because that sounds like the worst nightmare for any parent I know it's how do you have that conversation and again it's like you can't define whether you're going to get the right answer back or whatever so what what kind of communication around those two specific things have been effective for parents or that you've seen okay so one of the things the most protective thing is that you just have the conversations the relationship and so you're like over time it's never one conversation and hopefully before they're teenagers

you're starting to talk about what these things are and what they do to your brain and with substances for example we know that before certain ages your brain is so it it's in such a growth mode that you don't want to mess with that growth by putting substances in it so if they have any thoughts about future and hopes and goals now's the time to talk about that and explain that like at a certain point you're going to be able to drink at a certain point depending on what state you're in you're going to be

able to smoke pot but right now your brain is at a vulnerable stage and so it's a bigger decision now and in this household it's not on the table and also if you make a mistake I'm the person you come to because your safety matters more to me than anything in the world so I'm never going you're never going to regret that so I think it's one of those things where it's both a a limit a boundary and a relationship and you're paying attention and so that's one the best friend parenting thing can be problematic

because you're like well I'd rather them drink at home or I'd rather them get their drugs for me and this is we know from the literature it's just not so you don't want them to feel like you know we've sort of created a world where we want our kids to it's so easy that they don't even have to push back you're like handing them did you see Mean Girls the movie I haven't seen the new one but the original the original oh yeah I love the original you know Tina feay walks not Tina feay um

Amy polar walks in like with with cocktails for all the girls when they're getting ready and they're just like ew it's like you don't you you might crave connection and desperately want to give them the things so that they're sticking with you but you're still the parent and there needs to be they need to know that it's hard to do those things you know like there are barriers so that you don't break the rules um overtly so let's say they do end up drinking there's a difference between if your kid eventually ends up drinking because

you've really made it clear they can't so maybe they've pushed it off so now instead of at 14 they're 17 and there's a difference between drinking where they're just taking some sips of a white claw and binge drinking and you talk about that with them like I can't if I can smell it on you or see it that's a problem but there's there's a message in there which is like if you're going to make a mistake make the mistake moderately and those are all the different ways to sort of help lay the ground work for

them to do as best they can to keep safe but like you're not giving them the you know the permission and the cart blanch to just kind of do whatever yeah it's it's such a challenging balance it's so hard it's so hard like I was thinking about it when I was a kid if anything was off the table that was the most attractive thing in the world and I think that's very important to acknowledge is like it's still going to be attractive so if you set No Limits The the other side of it yes is

there needs to be something for a teenager to push back on so if you're like like I'm going to use an example that's less fraught clothing if you're like you can wear whatever you want I don't care and you see that your child is going out to a party in like something very revealing and you don't say anything then they're like I'm GNA try I'm gonna I I'm not even getting push back this must not be revealing enough I'm going to now wear something ridiculously like so revealing that it's offensive even to me but I'm

going to do it cuz let's see what happens and your parent says nothing and at at a certain point it's like the parent is you're supposed to put on a sweatshirt and hide it from your parents take the sweatshirt off and like know that this is not something that is like their dream but that you can call them if you need them and if we make things so it's a balance because you need to be rejecting of your parents so make the limit tight enough that there's you know something to reject and there's something to

do that's not dangerous but also know your kids's temperament and there are some kids where you have to frame things differently because they're just like oh the your no is my yes and I think that that's something to just pay attention to because everybody's different and every kid is going to be different of course yeah I know but that that's a really interesting point about needing to reject something and needing to have tension around something and it's almost like you removed the tension completely yeah what is there what's there to do what's there to do

yeah no that's that's fascinating I want to talk about the flip side we talking about discipline talking about encouraging and I feel like the biggest thing people want to do at least at the root I find is wanting to raise a confident child right we don't you don't want your children to feel insecure about the way they look the way they think the way they act and that seems to be the biggest challenge of the day with social media and everything else and so there's there's a real sense today of insec City Envy comparison feeling

less than how do you raise a confident human well I think there are two parts of confidence that we can really cultivate and then there's separately like Behavior patterns that we can help along like turning off social media like taking it away if it's really just like harming you so if you notice that you have a 15-year-old and they're fixated on how certain things I'm don't know why I'm holding my hand up they're fixated on what naturally they're going to be but like some are more inclined than others and it's really starting to get them

down say to them how's this making you feel because what I'm noticing is you're feeling worse and worse when you look at this so let's figure out a limit and I'll help you cuz I'll just take the phone away even when you're feeling like oh I really want to look at this but it comes from this real compassion and then the two things for confidence that we can do the first is remember that competence builds confidence not praise like telling your kid they're amazing is not going to make them feel like they're amazing it's the

competence like helping them develop the skills yes and those skills don't have to be that you're like a star violinist or tennis player it can be that you know how to cook or put the dishes away you know just just a fun functioning individual and so we tend to do everything for our kids even if they're capable of doing it but then praise them as if that's building the confidence and so I think that's one thing and the other thing is helping them understand how they feel and how they are reading the room because then

you start to go like okay I can trust myself and that is part of confidence as well oh that competence and praise piece that's huge I love the way you said that because I've often thought about that with so many of my friends because I I was quite a shy and I would say oh somewhat I was insecure about my weight growing up and to some degree the color of my skin too like experiencing racism growing up and things like that and so when I went to high school my secondary school as we call it

in England my parents forced me to go to public speaking and drama school and that was somewhat of worst nightmare in Parts but it was really amazing because it built a competency that then became really interesting and useful As I Grew into my teens and all of a sudden I felt like I had a skill that I could use and Implement and it was really helpful in so many ways and of course has gone on to change my life but I I look at that and I often tell some of my friends who are parents

and I'll be like I promise you just work on a skill because that changed my life and they can't imagine a world in which which I was shy or that I was insecure because they're like RJ you must have you know I'm like no no no I promise you like it was developing skills that gave me confidence in myself and you're right they start really small of you know you have a skill like I know my wife has the skill of she's really good at like techy stuff around the house which I'm horrific at and

she like can fix the TV and fix this and that and like she she can do that because her and her dad used to do that and she has a competence around it and that as a kid was something she knew she was good at and I think it's so interesting how we often think that even bonding time with our children has to be social uh and and of course that's awesome and I and I wonder actually I want to ask you about that like how because you it's interesting what you said and and obviously

my parents outsourced the skill development because my dad would hate teaching me math because that was not a good good a good good my dad's really good at math and I'm not so good um so it was great to Outsource it to another teacher but how do you see that parent child relationship based on social versus skill development and what what's good to Outsource what's good to in in-house well I think if you you have to know yourself like if you're going to get frustrated with your kid because they are not uh as easy to

explain math to you're probably not the best person to to help them along with the math but if you have something that you see even a kernel of interest in your kid like they're interested in seeing how you fix the TV spend the time helping them learn how to do that like you're it's a shared experience together it's a shared skill building even if you're terrible at it learn how to do it so that teaches them growth mindset like I'm not really good at this but it looks like you fir first of all it's great

if your kids actually have a skill like mine are obviously better at Tech than I am because they're in it they this is their native tongue so my 17year old is for sure the chief technology officer of the family and like anything Tech that happens I'm like please fix this but it's interesting for her and if that's interesting for her what I could do I don't but what I could do is say teach me how to get better at this tell me what you know and one other way to get really confident to teach like

teach what you know that's why it's great when you know older kids in school teach the younger kids it's so awesome so that is the other side of skill building is like a allowing them to then you know show you what they've learned and really pay attention to it and you know checking in with what they're interested in the way attention works is you have to care you have to be interested so if you're trying to get your kid interested in something and skilled at violin and they just are not interested it's not going to

it's the thing that you're looking for is for them to know whether it's bead making or tennis or violin it doesn't matter it's the act of working on something and getting better at it that builds the confidence yeah and it doesn't matter what it is it doesn't matter so we have to like let go of that investment I mean certainly there are going to be some things cuz that's just what we're going for like I didn't know how to play tennis growing up and I am so annoyed like it just bothers me so much socially

it bothers me as a grown woman I'm like I can't hang I can't do the fun things my friends are doing so I'm I force my kids to play tennis not competitively but just like you need to know how to do this but and and so I think you get a pass for a couple of those things and you just have to acknowledge to your kids like I don't care if you're interested in this is a me problem not a you problem but in general like let their interest lead yeah yeah no I could I

can relate to that so well my parents forced me to learn piano and it was the most at that time I was like I hate this and now I'm so sad because I think the piano is one of the most beautiful instruments and I look back going oh they were right what did I do why did I throw way and and you're going to have those natural experiences they allowed me to quit because I was so hellbent on no I don't want to do this and they they saw that and so they allowed that to

happen and now I regret it and so but that's okay yeah because now you'll just remember yeah exactly exactly it's it's it's interesting how I feel like it's such a I've been reflecting on hopefully at one point being a parent in my life a lot and and all I keep coming back to is this a few two things that keep coming to me are humility releasing control and the acceptance that I don't always know what's best or right and allowing for someone else to evolve and grow just as I've had to despite my parents' best

interests and that sounds like the most beautiful lesson and the biggest challenge at the same time because it's the thing you'd want to control the most yet can't H I know it's the thing you want to control the most because it's the most important thing and it's like if we can accept that we can only control ourselves our parenting flourishes and and that in one sense is the harder answer because we always think we can change things outside of ourselves quicker than we think we need to change yeah that's that is the the the craziest

thing about my job is that so much of it is and and psychologists in whatever area of psychology they're in because there's so many different branches and I'm not a clinical psychologist but even clinical psychologists who are sitting you know a lot of times they're they're meant to be working with children but what what ends up happening is they're working with the adults I'm only working with the adults but um but I think it's because adults can work on themselves and control themselves and we have this inclination to want to control our kids again it's

all with the most Love and Hope but we can't and so that's not you know like that's not the best use of our energy Alisa it's been such a joy talking to you today honestly I feel like I've learned so much I've reflected so much and I want everyone who's listening and watching to know we have simply skimmed the surface of some of the insane and incredible topics and methods that are inside this book if you been listening and watching so far make sure you go and order the five principles of parenting by Dr Alisa

prman host of the raising good humans podcast as well Alisa we end every on purpose episode with a final five and these have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum so these are your final five uh the question the first question is what is the best parenting advice you ever heard received or given all feelings are welcome all behaviors are not what is second question what is the worst parenting advice you've ever received or heard you just want your kids to be happy question number three what's something you used to believe to

be true around parenting but recently you've changed your mind about that I would be better wow that's that's beautiful that's beautiful question number four if you could encourage every parent to build one skill that would help them become a better parent for good humans what would that one skill be one of the five that makes you the most uncomfortable of relationship reflection regulation rules and repair yes love that and Fifth and final question if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be hunt for the good that's

beautiful I love that Dr Alisa prman everyone the five principles of parenting is the book go and grab your copy right now we'll put the link in the comment section and please tag me and Alisa on Instagram on Tik Tok on Twitter let us know sorry X let us know what is resonating with you what you're trying what's working for you I think as you saw today Alisa is really giving us a lot of stuff to play with a lot of stuff to interact with there's no right or wrong way there's no good or bad

way here it's about figuring out how sensitive you can be how close you can get to the human in front of you how you can learn to balance and play that middle path and so as you are trying all of this great Insight out please do share it with us we'd love to see it I'd love to thank you again Alisa for doing this for being present here with me today I really enjoyed sharing this energy with you and I really believe this going to help a lot of people so thank you so much oh

my gosh thank you so much this has been incredible thank you if you love this episode you'll enjoy my interview with Dr Daniel aan on how to change your life by changing your brain if we want a healthy mind it actually starts with a healthy brain you know I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over a thousand convicted felons and over a hundred murderers and their brains are very damage