The Business Expert: The SECRET FORMULA That Launches Billion-Dollar Companies!

when you are chasing a dream you're going to be happy about a third of the time I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded we don't talk about that I felt like it was the end of like my company and my career but it wasn't it was just a failure one of America's richest self-made women fashion and business Powerhouse IG greed I spent such a huge part of my life being so crippled by fear for so long that held me back it was rough before we jump into this episode I'd like to invite

you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier healthier and more healed all I want you to do is click on the Subscribe button I love your support it's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started I can't wait to go on this journey with you thank you so much for subscribing it means the world to me the bestselling author and host the number one Health and Wellness podcast on purpose with J shett hey everyone welcome back back to on purpose the number one Health podcast in

the world thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier healthier and more healed you know that my goal is to introduce you to incredible thinkers thought leaders people are making an impact and a difference in the world rule Breakers people who are changing the way we think lead and live and today's guest is someone I've wanted on for a long long time so I'm very excited that I finally have her sitting opposite me I'm talking about the one only Emma greed CEO and co-founder of good American the

first fully inclusive fashion brand that celebrates all dimensions of female power in October 2016 Emma launched good American alongside Khloe Kardashian what started as the largest denim launch in history good American is now an iconic inclusive fashion line of denim ready to wear swim shoes and active wear Emma is also a founding partner and chief product officer of skims a Solutions oriented brand creating the Next Generation of underwear loungewear and shapewear you already knew that and co-founder of safely an accessible premium Home Care brand dedicated to creating highquality plant-based cleaning products Emma is now recognized

as one of America's richest self-made women by Forbes and serves as chairwoman of the 15% pledge and also as a board member of baby to baby and for me beyond all of this I'm just happy to be sitting with a fellow Brit in LA and just so grateful Emma because I've been watching you I've been following you your energy whether it's a picture or a video is so magnetic and so real and now I meet you in person I'm like it's amazing so thank you thank you for being here honestly I could not be more

happy to be here a definitely because you're a fellow Brit but I have been listening and watching and reading you for so long this is like the thing that I've been most excited about for the longest time so thank you for having me today very happy it's a big like tick for me I'm like yes let's do it oh you're the sweetest and I want you to know literally my whole team was so excited you were coming today everyone is such major fans they I can't even imagine that even when you say I'm like really

it's true I'm like oh no I want to go back to I remember that you and Chloe were doing a live years ago yes and I literally just came on because I saw you both live and I came on and I was just saying hey guys you know like just being friendly and we were like you shifted the entire I just want everyone to understand this they're on a live talking about their incredible brand that is like crushing it and little old me comes on we're like yay we love him and it was the sweetest

thing like and I was like how did I felt terrible so I logged off cuz I no no no we where's he gone it was so sweet and I was just like how conscious and kind and thoughtful and anyway I want to dive straight into your incredible journey that's why we're here today to understand you the human behind this incredible journey and incredible story and I want to start off with what is your earliest childhood memory that you think is indicative and defines who you are today that is such a brilliant question this is what

you do right you ask the best questions I'm so glad you say why did you st an American um you know it's so interesting I come from East London and you know East London is like you know it's like coming from like Long Beach Inglewood or Brooklyn do you know what I mean it's like it's the street it's the part of London that when you know if you go back 30 years ago when I was a kid is just not the place where you would happily hang out I had a fantastic upbringing there you know

and I think it's very defining East London has been very defining of me my personality you were really raised to you know in a in a community to have huge respect for the people around you huge trust actually for the people around you but it was pretty devoid of any aspiration and certainly any any Glamour and I was one of those kids that just kind of grew up like always kind of looking at what could be next and what was in my future and I just fell into this like fashion magazine land you know it's

like I would do my paper out I'd get the money from that I spend it on an issue of like Vogue or l or Mary Clair and it was that great moment sort of late 80s early 90s in England where we had you know so many incredible movements you know Brit pop Brit art but all of those supermodels you know it's like Naomi and Kate Moss and I saw that as a means of escapism I never thought about it as a potential for a job but I was like let me just lift out of where

I am and aspire to something that was beautiful and aspirational because I couldn't see that anywhere around me and so when I think about my childhood I think partially about this piece of like East London where there's an honesty and an authenticity and a level of just like being the person that you say you are like living by a certain set of values and then this other part that was like get me out of there do you know what I mean and that's the honesty of it really yeah and how do where do you think

that comes from I think some people are like you know we become products of our environment and so if some people are in a group of people or in an area that is unambitious or not striving it's easy to fold into that where did that come for you personally like was it someone in your life was it something you read was it the magazines like where did that belief come that there could be more there may be more there is another place to go to you know I think that it must have come from my

mom in some ways because I honestly I didn't know anyone that owned their own business every where I come from everyone worked a job and you work for somebody else and jobs were seen as exactly that there was no career there was no vocation there was no like purposeful doing of what you do is like you get up you went to work you probably found it miserable and you Tred to get out of there as quickly as you could and for me I really thought that you know there has to be a better way to

live I was like shouldn't there be some excitement and enjoyment but I don't know where I got it from the sense of value and the sense of ambition has always been in me and people always say to me you know like how did you get to where you are and I go well it's much more simple than people think you know it's like I really value myself and I really value my goals and I don't think it's much more complicated than that but I was taught that by my mom who was very very much like

listen Emma you're not better than anybody else but nor is anyone better than you and so when people talk about impostor syndrome like I look around I'm like that that's just made up like every we all feel exactly the same like deep deep down and that sense of me feeling like I could achieve was just built in like I I've never felt a lack of confidence I've never felt less than I always felt like if I worked hard enough and I really like put everything into it that I could achieve I still feel like that

today I don't expect things to be easy but I I've never had a sense of I couldn't yeah what a great way for your mom to set you up like what an amazing recipe no it's it's beautiful to hear that because I love that perspective of no one's better than you and you're not better than anyone like that's such a great equalizer absolutely and the two things are really important right because I grew up with such a respect for everybody else around me regardless of like where they come from or you know what they were

doing and I think that you know as a kid I was surrounded by a lot of people that were doing what they had to do to get through the day and I never looked down on anyone I always thought well you know what as long as you are doing something you find an interest in something and for me that came at a very early age in fashion but it was much more a means of escapism than me sitting there and like really appreciating the clothing or the craft it was like it was a means to

dream yeah absolutely I love that and tell me tell me about you touched on it there but I want to talk about your first job and I like doing this with people because what's really interesting to me is people forget especially when someone's at the peaks of their careers and achieving incredible things like when people ask you the question of like how did you get to where you are it almost takes away from the fact that there was a first job that wasn't this especially now right because we have this idea es through like social

media that everything happens overnight and I think you know it's I've been grafting away since I was 12 years old and like boom I get some success at 40 and people think you're an overnight success I have worked every job imaginable I had a paper round when I was 12 until I was 15 I worked in a delicatessan I worked in Clove shops I served in restaurants it's like I've done every job in fashion that you could do at the lowest possible level imaginable while not being paid right it's like I've done all of it

but actually for me you know when you talk about people and your point of view on life like I am a naturally POS of a naturally positive distribution disposition I always am a person that thinks about the glass being half full and so even when I worked in that Deli and I was making a sandwich I was going to make you the best turkey sandwich you've ever had in your life and I would wait and look at you and be like how good is that sandwich isn't that an amazing sandwich I chose the best light

amount of turkey with the right amount of the pickle and I'd make it look nice and I'd cut it beautifully like on the plate and do you know do you know what I mean so for me I can take pride in anything and I also take a huge amount of learnings from everything so for me it's like I used to think well one day like this will be useful to me like one day learning how to make a perfect cappuccino or making a customer happy or discussing how things work in a shop or a dessant

will be useful to me and I actually think about all of those experiences as being very formative um and I enjoyed all of them you know it's like I've just I've really worked and I think everybody talks so much about hard work but they don't really talk about like unenjoyable work I had a lot of unenjoyable jobs that I just had to get through but i' never ever let it put me off I always saw them as a means to the end you know and so I think when we talk about that now like what

does hard work actually means it means getting up and thinking about the end goal when you're nowhere even close to it right but you can see a pathway and for me it was always about that I could always see very clearly that I'm going to do that to get to that to get to that and I've been quite um been quite planned I feel in so many ways in my life yeah and I'm so glad you raised that point because I I feel the same way that you don't have to love a job to learn

from it no and I think we all are thinking well I hate my job I dislike it it's the worst it's a waste of time I'm in the wrong place but actually if you just shift that to be like what can I learn what experience do I not have how can I interact how do I not want to behave like this boss drives me crazy I'll never be this boss I remember I had a boss like that and I used to literally write down in the back of my book like you should never ever speak

to people like that or call someone out in that way and I think that's been so formative of what type of leader I want to be but the two things for me haven't been mutually exclusive right I think that you can two things can be true at the one time you can be unashamedly ambitious and focused on what it is that you need while also being an inspiring and empathic leader who lifts other people up and so I've been thinking about those type of things since I've been a boss you know for the last 15

years as a direct reflection of what I didn't experience when I was an employee and so I actually think God all of those experiences were really good for me because now I know what I don't want to do yeah absolutely I did a paper round too by the way didn't you that was my first ever that was Heavy work it it was Heavy work but that's where I feel like I got my appreciation for the mornings I'm such a like early bird and I remember doing those paper rounds in the dark in England and it

was kind of amazing cuz you'd like most houses were Qui quiet and then you'd see this like one house where like there's a little glimmer happening and I thought I learned the power of the mornings from that particular job like getting out getting a head start I'd go home I'd put on my school uniform before any of my sisters I'd be sitting there with a cup of tea while they were all like scrambling around and I was like this early morning stuff there's something to it you know wow that's interesting so I used to do

mine in the evening oh did you because I didn't have to do in the morning so I do it after school what about your people getting the papers what happened to them I don't know St behind that's what I was told to that's what I was talk to I don't think anyone read the paper amazing but I would like I'd walk around with my uh headphones on I'd be listening to em& and I'd have like I know that I know that paper R yeah and I have this like really weird looking like trolley that P

around and then I have to take the papers into a bag that bag stunted my you are bringing me back I believe that too I have like a lopsided shoulder because of that bag it was so bad but yeah I learned this same thing like for me so all the kids in my area what they used to do the other kids who did the paper routes they used to throw the papers off the edge of the train track or like in a bush or whatever it was so then the guy who ran whatever company it

was that did the paper RS he said to me goes Jay you're the only reliable person I have so I'm going to give you all their streets and you get paid like that quits in yeah exactly you're out here making money yeah it was amazing and and it's I love that you said that that you learned and I love the passion I wish you were at my local Delhi like and and you know that stuff still happens today I interviewed um last year I was doing a show for YouTube and I interviewed this Tik tocker

called marel Washington all right and if anyone doesn't know who he is he's awesome like great energy super talented young guy and he was I think he worked in a Subway wow and he was he used to dance and sing while he served right and not only did he used to upload that to Tik Tok he got found that way and now he's got this incredible career and I love that energy of like back then when you were doing it and it took you maybe a lot longer to find that success he was doing it

more recently he found it but it's interesting to see that it's the same sort of what was what was the hardest job that you did the most unenjoyable the most uncomfortable where you actually looked at and went maybe this not worth it like was what was the one that pushed you to the edge well you know it's so interesting it was probably the job that I did before starting my first company because such a part of that I worked in a fashion show production company which if you imagine I want to be in fashion you

think yes the reality of that is that you're building stages you're working on this like concept of like you know whatever you're producing for three months the show goes up and down in 10 minutes everybody goes off to the Afterparty and you're doing d-g and you're like this is the worst job ever and so I transitioned into this role of like sponsorship which was so formative for my for the first business that I ever started because it was all about brand Partnerships and marketing and collaboration but but my role at that point when you know

nobody was just cold calling right so I would just have to like hit the phones and the rejection and you know you can't help but take that person you're like I haven't made one connection today and that I found so disheartening but you know I even knew then I was like this will be worth something because for every like little knockback you got you know every kind of three days you'd get one glimmer of hope and you take one meeting and out of those 10 meetings maybe you'd start one and actually it was very it

was just like very telling about yourself like what are you good at and now I think you know as I think about entrepreneurship and because I meet so many Founders that skill of sales and storytelling if you ain't got that like you can't do this job right you can't you can't sell to investors you can't craft a story to customers and you certainly can't get into the heart of like what makes a brand successful unless you can sell and through but it was miserable getting there beond miserable I I didn't realize how many different similarities

we have in our background really so I worked at the business Design Center for a bit and I did I did like internships then I worked there over the summer and stuff and all I had to do was sit there and call to sell the stands cuz you know they'd have all the different stands for like the bike show or the they'd be fashion fortive yeah it really is and I remember the cold and I look back at then and I remember before then I was so I was quite introverted shy and and then all

of a sudden when you're doing like 300 cold calls a day it's gone it goes away and it's amazing how so much can be like removed from not your personality but this kind of fear and insecurities that we often as have as a kid 100% And I feel like even now you know when I think about fear and what that's meant in my career so much because it's actually been helpful in so many ways like I always think about myself now and I'm like you know it's like if I am not a little bit scared

about what I'm doing like even coming here today right it's like then I'm not growing like I'm not moving forward I'm not going in the right direction and so now I find myself looking for the fear I'm like what can I do that's going to scare me CU like I know how to make jeans I can make you fantastic knickers all day long but actually like branching out and trying to do something else is the stuff that keeps us as humans growing and I think about that all the time because I spent such a huge

part of my life being so crippled by fear and failing and you know I I was a school I dropped out of school when I was 15 or 16 I can't actually remember it must have been 15 but you know that always left me with this kind of inferiority complex that I wasn't educated in if I'd work in London around all of these like very Hoy toyy wonderful people that were fresh out of Cambridge and Oxford and had these wonderful educations and I always felt a bit inferior for that I was like I'm going to

get caught they're going to find out that I don't you know have that educational background I don't speak in the right way and you know I feel like for so long that held me back until I realized no no no that's my fuel that's what makes me me and if I'm not a little bit scared now I find myself just actually looking for it cuz I know I need that fire in my belly like the whole time did you ever feel that anyone ever made you feel inferior because of a lack of the formal education

or was it an internal I'm sure they did but it was much stronger the internal voice right it's like I don't think anybody you know what it's like when you're in London there is such a class system right and people know immediately they in in this country they think you and I sound like the queen and we know in reality we don't babe and in London any English people listening to that us absolutely know that and so there is always that you open your mouth and immediately you're judging you know exactly where I'm from and

you can attribute a set of circumstances to that but I think it was much more about the voice in my own head and I I think about that an awful lot now in the way that I've set up my life life and my businesses and you know I believe very much in this idea like this rule of thirds right I think about it constantly you know when you are doing something very difficult or you are chasing a dream you're going to be happy about a third of the time you're going to feel okay about a

third of the time and the other third of the time you're going to feel pretty crappy you are going to feel bad and if the ratios get out of whack and things are not actually you're too happy you're probably not pushing yourself hard in enough and if you know you're actually spending too much time you're probably not you know you're not thinking about it right but I do think that that leaning that I've had my whole life like the idea that I shouldn't be comfortable and happy all of the time actually really helps me so

much and I think about that idea of the third and the third and the third and it doesn't scare me anymore I'm like oh I'm just having one of the days that is my crappy day that's okay cuz what I'm doing isn't straightforward it isn't what everybody's doing and it's supposed to be difficult it's supposed to be heavy it's supposed to not be comfortable all the time and I think that that for me has been a way that I can actually get through those times that are a bit more tricky you know I love that

I've never heard Zan say it like that before really yeah that's such a unique way of thinking about so you said the the thirds are okay happy and then terrible and then terrible yeah and I that's so spot on and I've never heard someone break it down like that simply yeah well I am a simple girl you know that's I have to break it down like that for myself but you know it's really helpful because I think in any in any part of your life like there is especially now because I work with so many

people there is this idea and also you know I'm a mom of four right so there is this part of me that's like I just want my kids to be all right and to be happy all the time and I'm like actually no because it's in those moments and you know this more than anyone of challenge of difficulty that's when you grow the most but we shouldn't rather than like trying to remove that from my children or take those times away from my employees or think that's not okay it's like no no no guys like

that's what it's about and if you're coasting through life and doing something like really simplistic fine you might just feel all right all the time but I am so happy when the good is good that I'll take the okay and the bad you know it's worth it because it actually all comes out even in the end you know sure when when you were chasing the dreams back in the day or like trying to build it up were you dating did you care about that was that like cuz now OB family yeah now you have a

beautiful family you have a wonderful partner you have four kids as you said like but I wondered then like I feel like a lot of us spend a lot of our teens and our 20s thinking about love totally was that how you were too or 100% I don't think I've ever been without a boyfriend I'm a person that needs a someone and I you know I went around a little bit and I I'm I'm very I was very happy to settle down at 25 26 I don't feel like I missed out you know because we

started so early I feel like you know I was like out in the clubs when I was 13 14 and then I had this stint in a beads when I was asked to leave school so it's like I've had a lot of living before I got there and I I think that I've always been someone that has chased love like I love that feeling but as you get older you realize you know what that really means like today it's like I want to be loved back but it's not all about that rush you know it's

like I've been with my husband now for years married for 11 and the things that I value have completely shifted right it's like and we've been on a journey together and I think that in life you need chapters and just as the same you know like in career and you need you know needing Transitions and to transform relationships need chapters like that too the first five years we traveled the world we parted we got drunk we like did all the things that you do and then we went through a period of having children and that

that's extremely challenging on any relationship especially while the two of you are enormously ambitious and I think that what I have with my husband is this extremely unique partnership where he always understood that I was ambitious and I needed to do things and he's completely supported that and I think that the love that I have for him has grown exponentially because we've been still I've still been able to chase all of my dreams outside of the relationship and the family structure while having someone really support me do that that's yeah we won't we won't go

down the extin in N that no it's really fun G we do a calling part go go tell me no I just feel like it you know it's like you you have there's a part of my life where I think there was a Need to Escape you know and I found that I was a real Club kid that's what I enjoyed I wanted to go out for me it was actually never about getting smashed but it was like the music and those super late nights and the like that whole community of it like I was

friends with the DJs and the MC's and you know like I was on the list and like I did that whole thing I think that was a huge formative part of my childhood like I would not or not my childhood my kind of late teens early 20s like I needed to go and get like remove myself from from what my kind of everyday life and my upbringing was and it kind of introduced me to a lot of alternative things and people and ways of being and you know it's like you go to iifa you you

learn yoga for the first time I was like what's this nobody I knew in plasto was doing yoga I didn't know anyone in IA was doing yoga nor of the island baby but you know it was like there's just there's things that I think that part of my life really opened me up to and I I felt like in some ways even though I saw a lot as a kid and I was experienced some pretty kind of gruesome things there was a whole part of life and sort of a a way of living and uh

a a a kind of level of peace and understanding of people that was not ever explained to me and was not part of my childhood and my upbringing and I learned that much later yeah I know thank you for sharing that it's it's uh it's so yeah it's so interesting again we we often feel like the next chapter will be better and you've just broke it down and said well no actually there's going to be every chapter and every chapter has its reason has it and you just said I love that I live life that

way and then when I met my partner I knew it knew it was going to work and even that's had so many chapters inside of it absolutely what would you how would your mom describe what she saw as a little girl to who she sees now I think she'd say same same I was always a pain for everyone around me you know I literally I was that kid I I actually didn't you know I didn't have many I wasn't like the popular kid you know my sisters were all massive athletes hugely popular I was a

bit more of a loner I had like you know two or three really solid friends sounds exactly like today actually but you know it was like I was that kid I was like in my own head I've always been a dreamer but you know my mom would always say she was like you're a dreamer but you're a doer and I always had those two things I don't think I've changed that much you know I I think about myself I'm like I've been absolutely same since I was seven years old this is how I've always felt

this is how I've always been that's that's so cool I wonder how you see that with now being a mom too like now when you're looking at your kids and it's wild because I think like so many moms especially mothers that work in the same way that I do right you're kind of played by this idea of what you're supposed to be and do as a mother and because I grew up with a mom that left the house every day that went to work I have maybe a different idea of what I'm supposed to be

providing for those kids I think it's really important that my children see me living out my dreams and hopefully they'll do the same for themselves but you know everybody the the question always kind of boils down to like how do you do it all and I really think it's important to dispel that myth of doing it all because women have been really sold a Croc of crap like it's like you you can't have it all all the time and my life is a series of tradeoffs right that's just a fact I'm not the mom who

is at the school gate I'm not there for pick up and drop off I'm not at the school Gara hopefully my kids get something else for me which is a sense of actually living out your dreams and what you're supposed to do and I think that they will see that and really appreciate having that for me but I think it's very important that we stop talking about this idea of like balance because there is no balance in my life like it it's it's rubbish you know it's like I have to go wherever the energy is

that morning and my children have to fit around that nothing's changed like I said I'm still the same the same person and for children yes it changes the the kind of you know uh routine of your day but it doesn't change who you are fundamentally and I am one of those person people that think you know my children have to fit around me and and that's just a fact you know it just is what it is yeah and I'll say as as a kid who grew up with a mom who was working that hard and

like had her so so my mom trained to be a financial advisor so that she could be self-employed as we called it in she was an entrepreneur but totally the language she could manage her own time she could manage her own time so she could be there for us so my mom would make us breakfast drop us to school pack lunch amazing and then she'd go to work super pick us up feed us and then go back out to work and sometimes I'd join her I'd go out with her in the car I sit with

her my son's in my office when she was with clients and then should I know I know I I should have and and it's just I saw my mom be so active my mom was never she wasn't around like just hanging around the house she wasn't available in that way again I'm not saying that's a bad thing I'm just saying my mom wasn't and as someone who grew up with a mom like that like not only do I love and respect my mom insanely insane I also just saw that it you could still feel loved

without having loads of time 100% because it's about quality right I always think about that my kids need me like in a 100% capacity like not half looking at my phone not half doing work not surrounded by lots of people in the house and I really try to think about them as individuals because I have a boy and a girl and then boy girl twins and I like to do things with my kids individually so that I can really understand who they are and what their needs are not like this sort of like family pack

you know because it very quickly becomes that I'm like a like all of you in the car um but I think that you know again when you grow up in a big family you you have ideas and experiences of how it wasn't so great and what you'd want to do differently and so I try to apply that but I think for for most women it's really it's really important to just level like lower the expectations a little bit and be honest with ourselves about what we're capable of because it's really something that I think there's

so much being thrown at women all the time about what you should do and how you should advocate for yourself and you know and and it quite frankly is just too much it is not feasible it is not something that we can all cope with and I think that you do what you do to get through the day and we should all just like lower the expectation levels a little bit that isn't to say lower your ambition level but that's just to say don't don't feel bad about what you're doing at the end of it

it's like we all do as much as we can and our kids will all be right they don't need us to Usher them through every experience in the day and they'll be who they are they'll be who they are how did you make peace with that because I feel like I I love that perspective and I'm sure it's going to help so many people but I think people struggle with this we love being the controller we love making sure everything's right we also so hard on ourselves as you were just saying because people were hard

on us and now we think we need to be super mom and maybe our mom did it or maybe our Auntie did it whatever I think there's a lot of people who are just like I get that but I don't know how to make peace with that 100% you know it's a great question and I always think about I'm somebody that's absolutely like fixated and fascinated by memories right I always like go back and I think about like the big important things in my life what what did I really enjoy from last year what were

the moments that like adhere in my memory and when you do that it very rarely has anything to do with any level of perfection the best moments are the sporadic moments that were unplanned when you're sitting there there the kids are a mess you're in the garden something happened that just made it so and it's never the moments that you kind of forced it's never the things that you planned it's never the ones that you spent like all your energy on and so I think that it just becomes about like this great like you've got

to weigh it up right you've got to weigh up like what is worth it and what where do you derive enjoyment from and I think anyone who looks at their life will actually find that it's in the small stuff it's in those moments that you just let it all go and so I think it's really it's such a good exercise especially for women and moms to just kind of backtrack and say in the last 12 months what were the single best moments that you had and then you will absolutely not stress about whatever it is

that is weighing you down today because it's never what you think ever it never has been for me yeah and don't judge the moment right like we can we're so quick to be like oh I just I said the wrong thing totally and all of a sudden I said the wrong thing becomes I'm messed up today I shouldn't be here I don't belong I'm not supposed to be part of it and it's so interesting I remember like there's this brilliant story about when Oprah was going through this like crazy crazy time in her life and

she turns up at Quincy Jones's house for business for dinner and she said to him oh my God like it's so terrible it's so awful have you've seen the press and d and he's like what are you talking about he hasn't seen anything right because at the end of the day no one's watching you no one's watching you like you're watching you most of your mistakes is in private and so I often think about that because it's like everybody's so bothered about their own stuff and what's going on in their head they're not thinking about

you and so sometimes you just have to release a little bit and I always try to think about like what is real and what is ego you know and so much of it is ego so especially around the mom part funnily enough right because we're all trying to do and be better than what we had and change things for our children and be this impossible wonderful perfect mother and that's nothing to do with your kids cuz what your kids want is just a bit of you in the most simple way they don't care about any

of that stuff and so again it really is that challenge of really sitting down and speaking to your children and thinking to yourself like what actually matters and I think it's like those small moments yeah yeah that's well said and as I said as someone who received a lot of that from my mom I I felt like I never doubted whether my mom loved me or not no whether she could come to my rugby game or not or whether she could come and watch me at the class rehearsals or dramas or whatever we were doing

if she was there or she wasn't there that wasn't how I felt loved she loved you absolutely yeah because it was so it's it's such a core part of my life I feel today I have like so much love to give because of how much my mom loved me 100% And it's not that she was there every 100 so yeah and and the flip side I'm sure there's people who would think God my parents were around all the time and and and I didn't necessarily you didn't necessarily connect exactly neily feel connected yeah you've talked

about this before and I really like it this whole idea of like you can't have it all and everyone's always talking about balance and I agree with you I don't think balance exist either even in my life because I often get that oh J mindfulness and meditation I'm like but that's not balance like you're actually constantly using these tools and techniques to be back at a point of equinity yeah exactly yeah to be back at a point of equinity but there isn't this idealized balance no when it comes to you know you and your partner

you both have great careers you do some things together lots of things individually like absolutely how does that like I guess my question there is what is the one thing you both need from each other that allows you to stay connected whilst having Collective Empires individual Empires and then a beautiful family as well on top of all of that I honestly think that just comes down to love because it's different things in different moments and if you really really love someone then you do what they need in that moment whether or not it's good for

you right there or what you might have discussed right that comes down to do I really love this person and want the best for them in this thing this moment this decision and more than anything you know I have such an admiration for my husband in so many different ways in how he thinks and how he approaches things and what type of father he is and you know love does lots of different things but you know usually it grows or it dwindles right it's like in relationships and I think that mine is still growing but

it just comes down to the fact that I love him it isn't any more complicated than that we have lots of things that we do together and I do think there is a huge thing of this idea of chapters and having projects together you know to some extent children are that because you go through this like you know trying to get pregnant and then being pregnant and then having the baby in those early days and then those stories about those early days and then buying houses together and doing those houses up and so there is

this element and we've asked we've also had the businesses that to some degree and in some businesses we've done those things together and so there have been these chapters and these projects that have been extremely I'd say pivotal in our life and you often see that that when you know couples have kids that fly the nest it's like suddenly they don't have a project anymore it's like everything's done and they're like okay we don't have anything so we have that together but I feel like in my life I'm extremely ritualistic you know that's just how

I am and there's parts of our relationship that have taken on some of those rituals in terms of you know how we think about time just us and not with the children how we think about setting up our mornings and those things become sort of bedrocks and foundations that for for what I think is like a healthy relationship yeah what what I really gained from what you're saying right now and I hope everyone's listening and taking notes too because there's so many great great insights that are like you're just sprinkling them everywhere and I'm like

trying to catch him and there there's I love the idea that if you value a relationship in your life your relationship is only as good as the stories you've lived together and the memories you've made and if you stop making stories and memories with people then you're constantly living in the past exactly which is so unhealthy it's so and you've seen that in so many friendships right when you're no longer creating together you have nothing but your old memories and after a while that just dwindles so you need to consistently create and that can be

big things or small things it can be build a you know shed in your back Garden but something that you live out together and you see to fruition and you create and you make and I think that that's a really important part of of relationships yeah and to keep doing that and keep getting exciting together about something absolutely yeah rather than just like how was your day and then you're talking about your own world and then their world and and all of that separation you know and that's how so many couples I think where it

goes wrong you're kind of living out the most exciting parts of your life entirely separately and I feel with us you know it's like we just bought a cold plunge and like the cold plunge has become the thing right we're literally just like how many minutes are you going to do how many minutes are you going to do oh my God are you going to put your head under like you know but it becomes this thing that you're living out together and now we'll be like cold plunge bullies to all of our friends you know

but even something so small like that can be so like magical for a relationship CU you're learning and pushing and doing something together yeah we do the same do you no you don't yeah we do but my wife so my wife will white she's so good in the cold she's so good I can't even tried to be here CU well I married a Swedish man so I feel like I'm at a disadvantage like from the outset you were basically born in the ice like come on like of course you're better at this than I am

that's amazing and then we've been playing pickle ball as well that's our other thing oh Pi have you play I have a c but I don't think I'm going to be I don't think I'm going to be on it anytime soon you guys come over and you can show us how it's done it's so much fun and again it's just doing taking on a new project a you know whatever it may be you I love that you were saying like you love memories and that you kind of almost have a memory bank I was going

to ask you do you think there's a memory in your life that you've kind of like locked away or hidden away that you kind of like it's almost have you seen that movie Inception and it's like he locks it away in the basement and he never goes there because it kind of it has sometimes it can be good bad it can be anything but do you have a memory you've locked away I think I probably have a lot of memories that I've locked away and um you know it's really interesting uh we should have maybe

done this podcast like in a month I'm going to go to the Hoffman Institute oh yeah yeah I think I have an enormous amount of that in my life and I said to you earlier you know I think if you're not I think about my life in terms of like practice right it's like I'm practicing every day like who I want to be and I think that that's a great way to teach my children because they do what they say and I never beat beat myself up about my past who I've been my background where

I came from because I know that I'm constantly moving and evolving and I feel like if you're not working on yourself then you're not really living do you know what I mean I feel like the purpose of my life is to explore how I can be the best version of me and I don't just mean that in business I mean in every single facet of my life how can I be the best mom and the best wife and the best boss like all of those things like mean a lot to me but it takes work

and it takes practice and I don't get it right every single day and when I think to answer your question about memories and things I've locked away it's when I've not been proud of my behavior but those are always things that I am willing to kind of hold my hands up to and and work on and I feel like I've done especially now I live here you know you come and you do the work right it's like it's just the grownup thing to do and I feel like that's been one of the reasons I've enjoyed

being in La so much is because I've had this whole obviously all the success with the businesses but on this other side I've had this huge um Awakening in terms of who I am and who I'm supposed to be and how I'm evolving as a person and so I really feel like those are things that I'm still exploring and I will be until the day I die you know I'm always in learning mode I love that and you're invited back afterwards as well so you don't have to worry about C no what I mean is

I hope this is not going to be the last time you come but um what what's a memory that you'd love to relive or you revisit often mentally and you close your eyes and you're like yeah I'm there like I'd love to live that again because it was you know it's so crazy I think it's probably I mean feel so bad on my kids but the birth of my first child like that was so insane and amazing and it's really funny because women like often say like everything changed then you know it's like and I

and for me everything changed in that moment I remember having just had gray and Yen was holding him on like you know the side of the bed and I thought I have got to get out of this bed and go to the office and that's all I could think in my head cuz it's was like all of a sudden I had the reason I was doing all of this stuff for and it had never become more clear to me than in that moment I was like okay like now Real Life Starts wow yeah yeah that's

really how I felt I was like get me back like into the office like immediately oh my gosh yeah forget the baby nothing nothing about going home and like snuggling with my child I was I have a reason to do what I'm doing now and that can coexist with loving your kids 100% because again like you can be so many different things it's like I am a super nurturing Hands-On mom and I really enjoy motherhood I just have other stuff that I like too yeah why do you think we struggle to have those two ideas

like Society has set it up that you're one or the other right you're either putting on your heels and like banging out the door and like don't see your kids and put them to bed or you're like this really sweet Mom it's like no I'm both I'm actually everything I am every woman like just like tough it do you know it's like I think that actually what it is that you know there are all of these like misconceptions about what you are allowed to be and I don't think we put those same things on men

because men can be like totally in the office and killing the deal like then just be this incredible dad throwing like a football on the weekend like you're fully allowed and it's fine but for women it's not so fine and so you know so much of what I do in my work and my businesses and actually just sort of trying to be honest about me and and how I operate is to dispel a lot of those myths because I do think that we are not onedimensional and you can be so many different things and and

also so many different things to different people you know I'm one person to my husband and one to my kids and if you were to come in my office I think they give you a whole different version of me I like it all over it it's true though we all have to there's all different facets to each part of ourselves and I but it's about the level of acceptance right like are you are you allowed to be there and is it accepted and that's why you know Jay it's so interesting I don't think I've ever

listened to a podcast where a man has been asked about impostor syndrome not once it is a question that is the Special Reserve for women as is the question of balance no one says Hey yens how you balancing it all the brands and the business and the kids no one says that to my husband I'm glad they didn't ask both those question I just out they say it to me every day every single day what is it like to be a black woman in business I'm like what kind of question is that you know but

there are things that for women just like we're still not able to get over this idea that we have in our heads that we can't be many things to many people and I just don't believe in that at all yeah no I'm with you I'm with you and and and I really feel that naturally all those questions are coming because that's what people are scared about and insecure about and worried about and it's as you said it's come because it's been created in society I read a there was this research paper a long time ago

and I won't get it absolutely accurate but the point was that when men and women look at a job application if men can do some of it they'll apply and even if if women can't do one it they won't apply I see that every single day in my own office right a guy will work for me for 6 months and come and ask me for a pay rise and then I will say to a woman I don't think you've had a pay rise for like a year and a half like do you know what I

mean it's like or somebody that will come in and say like I speak absolutely fluent Spanish and a woman who's pretty 90% there won't even mention it on so there are those obvious things and that's just about you know so many times for women there is this natural nurturers we naturally play down our skills and I think that that is just something that Society has taught us and so I think about it all the time I'm quite the opposite you know I I'll go in and pretend I can do anything in in in a pitch

meeting or it's like I'll say what needs to say to get it done do you know what I mean um but I do think that for so many women there is this like sort of magical golden moment in your life where you're free of a lot of constraints you know maybe you don't have a mortgage you don't have children yet you're not in a really serious relationship where there is this moment to be incredibly selfish and for most women when all of the responsibili pile on they stop doing that and I think they actually just

as women we would do better to be selfish for longer in our lives and that's the type of thing and and so many people would be like oh I just don't like the word like can't you find another way to dress it up absolutely no because I mean what I say you do have to think about yourself self because nobody else is thinking about that for you everybody else is too busy thinking about this themselves and so this idea of being selfish shouldn't feel like such a foreign thing for women or a dirty word for

women it's like you have to be there is no other way to get ahead and to do what you want to do you have to put your needs and your uh wants and your ambition first because no one is going to do that for you yeah and it's hard isn't it when like you were saying you've tried to be the boss that you didn't have I can identify with that I try and be the boss bosses that I didn't have and I think it is really wonderful when you see a great relationship building with people

you work with where they recognize you're being the boss that they never had as well and you are too and you're also realizing there're being a great person of your team that that hasn't been like other people have been how have you learned to like sense that and know that when you're like okay well me and this person can go and build together and create together or this is the right person to recruit onto my team or like what are the things that you're looking at and trying to decipher because I think right now we

do live in a world where also people are thinking about a job as a paycheck and they don't care whereas you're very passionate you're very driven you always have been since the Delhi so it's like if you've cared that much about the deli and the sandwich obviously you care so much about what you do today totally how how do you do that well you know I think I'm really realistic because you will have those people in your business that come to work with you literally because you know a good America we are be CAU registered

right and people feel like they want to work in a company that cares about the environment that cares about what they're putting out and you'll get people that care about the mission and the vision and the values but I don't expect that everybody will care I know that there are some people that just come and they just want their paycheck and so for me I try to separate who I am and what I might need from what somebody else might need my expectation is that not everybody's bouncing in there trying to kill it for me

right I'm pretty sure that a lot of these people come in and they do their job and they're working on their side hustle halfway through the day and that's okay you know it's like that's not for everyone and I think that as I've got older I've learned not to put my uh my type of ambition on you know or not to try to reflect that onto everybody that's around me and those people will of course they'll rise to the top they'll make themselves known but it isn't for everybody you know it's just it's just a

fact and and also you need that when you're building a team if everybody was an ambitious little monster it would be a disaster you know you need people that happy to come in grind do their job and leave at 5:00 that's just facts yeah absolutely how did you make that leap like you just said earlier I'm just connecting the dots you were like I was never around anyone who was an entrepreneur who had their own business everyone worked a job yeah how did you accident J shed accident go on it was a total accident because

you know I never set out to start my own company I was frustrated that I wasn't being paid enough where I worked and then was like all right well if you don't like that then you're going to have to do something else but I was also acutely aware that no one was going to come and hand me a company on a plate like here's this company to run you you person with no experience and you know you kind of jumped up 24 year old and so I was very like acutely aware that I'd have to

do it myself um and that's where it came from like you know I'd love to say that I had this like great idea and this great ambition but it came out of like frustration and not being paid enough and feeling like I wasn't getting the value back that I put in that's the honest answer yeah no and I think that's very relatable I think most people are in positions like that but that doesn't lead to the courage yes to go to do it because we feel like well what if it doesn't work what will my

friends say what you know and all those kind of things that come up because we're scared even for me like I remember I had a steady job and I was this is after I'd left the monastery come back home I'd finally found a steady job I was dating my it's such a good sentence after I left the monastery isn't it good you should wind that in any I feel like so after I left the monastery I was just trying to give context em this is this is the British B sorry Em's like ful I love

it I love it I don't have a sentence like that and I want one I might just take it bang it out you've got ather you've got you've got plenty but no the so I was in the steady job and it was like I was dating my now wife and I remember going this is not working for me like and I wasn't killing it and I wasn't doing badly I was I was I was doing all right but I just knew it wasn't my place yes and I remember I probably spent two years there feeling

that way totally you kind of just you're thinking about it reflecting on it you're like what do I do what if it doesn't work and so walk us through that a little bit because I think a lot of our listeners may actually be feeling that way a lot of our audience is actually listening going you know what I'd love to I'd love forget doing what Emma's done now I'd just love to get out where I am now because you know what I mean I think the truth of it was that I've never been that scared

of failing yeah right and for me at that time in my life I was making a a small amount of money it's fair to say that I didn't have any you know no one was relying on me to to pay rent or I had a tiny tiny little I lived in like a highrise in East London with no front door and a gate on the door no oven just a microwave no fridge I put my milk on the balcony just to paint the picture of like where I was at that time in my life it

was rough and honestly what I thought is that how could I lose like at this point I could always go and get another similarly not inspiring job and so that idea of like fear of not failing was really key but I also was really I've always been very honest with myself like you know everybody has a voice voice in their head and some people have a voice that like chaps them up you know it's like I do but I also have that voice that's like Emma like know what you don't know like don't be too

silly in this situation so I think that I really in that instance where I decided like let's get out of this job and try to go and do something else it was enough understanding of it wasn't that good where I was if it really didn't work out I could always get back into something like that but also that that thing that just says what happens if you don't do it you know like for me I was miserable and I really saw a better life for myself and I was like I will just regret this when

I'm 35 for example and so it was really about just going like you know no one's going to take a chance on me I have to take the chance on me and then maybe someone else will be inspired to take a chance on me which is ultimately what happened I left that role I got employed in another job and then when I got into that job my now husband and business partner at the at that time they kind of saw me and they were like well this girl's like kind of good she has something and

they ended up being My First Investors when I was 25 years old that's incredible isn't it which was which was crazy which to me even at the time it felt crazy and I remember questioning I was like why would anyone invest in me and then I thought no of course they'll invest in me who else you're going to invest in like you might as well I'm as good as anybody else out there and that's when that thing started ticking in so I think sometimes you've just got to not be too afraid to lose and you

know the truth is Jay I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded right we don't talk about that that's not in the articles I don't post that on Instagram but that's just the fact like I've made so many mistakes before I got here and had three very successful companies I had a dog of an agency that I opened here in a very successful business that was thriving in London and thriving in New York and I opened an office in LA and I embarrassed myself I complet completely let the you know I let the

company down I let the board down I let the staff down I underinvested I did all of the classic mistakes and you know at the time I felt like it was the end of like my company and my career but it wasn't it was just a failure I've had lots of things like that happened lots of you know public embarrassments and things that didn't work out and it's you know sounds like such an obvious thing but it's like well how do you recover from that and so for me it's like always been this thing of

like all right well I'll dust myself off I've survived worse you know and I think a lot of that comes from my upbringing you know it's like you see a lot of stuff go down and you can get through things and I think I'm pretty good at getting through things and this is that Quincy moment where I'm like I didn't even know like you know it's like see there you go yeah it's amazing it's just like you just you know you it's so fascinating how quickly we are it's it's so fascinating how quickly we point

out people's faults and then forget about them 100% And and it's so that happens so fast because it's not as fun a story right people want at the end of the day I believe in you know the goodness of humans we default want good good stuff for each other and we want to see each other win and people are very happy to celebrate alongside you you're much more concerned about your failures you're much more concerned about your fears than anybody else out there and I think every now again I kind of just have to tune

myself back into to that piece of it yeah and it sounds like what I really like is that you've got this ability and I've been watching the whole interview and it's like you've got this ability to know what the different voices in your head are yes like you're very clear about like this is the one that's being real this is the ego this is giving me the hype that I need right now 100% but also you know I know their voices I know they're not me yeah and I always knew that because I have an

ability like my whole superpower in life is about being able to turn it on and off and so I am acutely aware that those are just things and that I have at my disposal and sometimes they work to my my advantage and sometimes they work to my disadvantage but I don't think that it's me does that make sense like it's like I know who I am like and it ain't all of that it's not the chatter none of it it's just I'm something else yeah it's I mean that's a incredible distinction to know and have

and build did that come from did you read something did you learn something or was it just you started listening to yourself did you spend a lot of time alone I'm intrigued as to what you did to gain that skill because it's a skill and you're obviously aware of it you know I think I'm just that like Oprah generation do you know what I mean you come you come home every day from school Oprah was on the TV telling you to be grateful you think what do I have to be grateful for if you seen

my house have you seen my trainers I need new shoes like you know and it's like I didn't get it then but I started to believe it and I started to read you know I am an Avid Reader I read so much everything and always have since I was 13 and again it was that means of escapism and so I started reading things like you know the Power of Now like you know like all of these things that like conversations with God I remember you know it's like I read that book and I was like

like just blew my mind because I didn't know anybody that thought like that um and so maybe I just absorbed it bit of Oprah bit of couple of books you know and it it went in like I understood it and it made sense to me no it's as simple as that and I the same generation like we I grew up in the same way and it's so true how like these tiny little messages just start connecting dots and and that's kind of what kids are built on and and young people are built on it isn't

you could have heard the same thing at school every day but because it wasn't simplified and easy and digestible 100 you don't remember it but you remember the random TV show you watched that your parents had on in the background exactly that's amazing yeah no I love I love witnessing it in an interview with someone where you're like wow this person's so aware and I want to talk more about hopefully this is what you don't get to talk about as much or maybe like you're saying like men get asked this stuff and maybe women don't

I'm intrigued but but like we were talking earlier you're a brand marketing genius like you're you're you're super attentive aware conscious you have this ability to think about products and brand in a different way how do you select problems to solve how do you choose which problems you want to work on and then make sure that you build something that actually solves that problem I think about it in the sense of myself I think it would be very difficult for me and I'm not saying other people can't do it but to do things that you

can't relate to right so I always start with the idea that if it's a problem for me likelihood is it's a problem for other people like me whether that be uh other young women or other women in the middle of America but it's like the starting point is always what do I find problematic and then I think the lens and the the kind of red thread that goes through all of my companies is this idea that and again I hate saying it because in the last kind of five years it's almost become like this sort

of buzzword but when we think about inclusivity in business and what that actually means including and thinking about the most amount of people possible when I started good American it was actually a reaction to this idea that so many women women of color plus-sized women are just completely left out of the fashion conversation and why is their dollar any less valuable than anybody else's and so I had worked in marketing for all of these years for 15 years I grew this incredible agency and i' done castings and you know put projects and collaborations together for

the biggest and best brands in the whole world and I'd been part of actually falsifying an image of inclusivity you know it's like you have a group cast you need a black girl and an Asian girl and then this and this and this and actually when you thought about the product and when you thought about the senior manager M of those companies it looked nothing like that right it just the product didn't work for anyone over a certain size and the boardrooms were just all made up of typically like white men making the decisions usually

for women and I just sort of thought to myself there must be a better way to start a company but it came from problem solving for myself and I go back to this idea of like you know when you think about businesses it makes more sense that they would be geared towards serving more people that's just good business right forget de and forget like you know this idea of diversity Equity inclusion doing some being something that companies need to do now it's just good business and when I talk about it this idea of inclusivity and

diversity being a superpower in business it's not something that I just say it's something that I do that's where the process actually starts I'm thinking about how can I best serve customers the most amount of people and then when there's an acknowledgement of someone who isn't usually acknowledged of course it goes without saying that suddenly they feel seen they feel heard and they're like I'm going with this girl I'm going with this brand because it's the first time anyone's spoken directly to them and I think that that's such a it's such an under thought about

part of business you know people usually bolt it on at the end and I'm like no no no no it's right where you start it's in the Inception of those products it's in making 32 sizes it's in doing nine different shades it's in the very very beginnings of what you're creating and then you can dress it up and make it look nice and put the right kind of branding on it but actually it starts way earlier than that and so I I actually think about customers in a way that I think most people don't where

did you not learn that but where did you learn to look to understand that obviously it started with yourself but I'm like why didn't people do that before cuz like you just said it's better business it's better financially it makes more sense it makes more people are happy what do you think blocks companies just comes from where decisions are being made right because it's like you don't know what you don't know and I've sat in enough rooms trying to pitch enough businesses to a group of people that aren't my end audience and I have actually

said in in meetings before maybe you should phone your wife or daughter like literally like phone them because you don't understand this because it's not for you you know and so I think that decisions are made in such a abstract way in most companies and you know you see this when you know companies make mistakes right they we've seen a lot of like big fashion brands and big consumer Brands make mistakes that have seemly kind of come across as like uh insensitive racist completely misogynistic that's just where a decision is made a company isn't inherently

racist like the whole company it's just the decision-making process is flawed I.E there's not enough people in the room of a different background to say hey perhaps put the t-shirt on the other kid like then it won't be an issue so I think that this just comes from the the idea of like where are the decisions made in that company and who's making the decisions and I know that the more people you bring around a table from different backgrounds we're not just talking about race here we're talking about age education the full Gambit like the

better the company will be yeah that is such great I I love what you just said about asking someone to call their partner or their daughter or whatever it may be because you're so right like I think so many people sit in meetings and they looking around going these people don't know what they're talking about or like they just don't understand totally how have you maintained like I guess the question is how many of those meetings have did you have to sit in until you felt like I'm just going to do this or we're just

going to figure it out or did you look for someone who agreed with you and had your values and did the research or was it kind of like we're just going to build it ourself like how give give us a bit of that because I think a lot of people see me you know it's so interesting I'm at that point in my career now where I don't sit in a lot of meetings now they pitch me which is lovely the shoes on the other foot I'm like come over here and I'll let you know if

you can come in um for I love that love but in the early days you know I I think that I sat in a lot of situations feeling like um you know the great thing is I never doubted myself or any of those ideas I just thought I hadn't found the right people yet it's a little bit like you you know I'm happy to kiss a lot of frogs and I always have been because again I don't think it should be so easy when you're doing something that is new and without so much definition and

unproven like it's supposed to be hard and again it's like anything I never let it get to me I just was like poor poor chicken he doesn't get it yet and he will do and he'll kick himself you know and that's fine you know it's just it's part of it and I don't mean that in a smug way but I never I never doubted what I was doing I was very very clear especially when we started good American I was like this thing people don't understand and we'll just get them to understand it yeah definitely

yeah know and I think that's such a great mindset to have and to not have the the smugness or bitterness because that person just wasn't in the right space you don't know what you don't know right totally it's totally cool I feel like that all the time I'm like I'm trying to find the people who want to be part of this story and if they don't want to be a part of this story that's totally cool of course because they won't be great Partners to you down the line right it's like you either get it

and you want to be part of it and you are happy to know that you don't know it all right because it's it's about new space if like if we were all doing the same thing and trying to set up the same companies we'd never find a skims exactly you know it's like you'd never land on it you'd be like that's too complicated that's not how we do things and and you skip over the Great Stuff how have you managed to continue to stay hungry and also stay Innovative when things are good like before you

talking about I didn't like my job I wanted to get out you know milk was outdoors I was you know like there's a there's a pain that pushes you in a better Direction I'm not saying you don't have pain anymore of course there's stresses challeng I don't have that much pain I have daily I have daily dramas but the pain is gone you know what it is you are fueled every day by a piece of it is competition right it's like I I look at everything there is no one who knows more about jeans and

knickers than to I look at every competitor I go out in the market I see it I know like the promotional Cadence I know everything everybody else is doing and I think that that that natural um inquisitiveness is part of what keeps me good um but at the end of the day it's like I just want to win you know it's like I don't feel satisfied and also it's like how could you it's just been a couple of years there's loads of people that have had successes for six and for three years I don't think

that's the end goal the end goal is to build like you know generational or generationally defining businesses and that doesn't happen quickly and also I'm not stupid enough to think like or to let a few year success get to me there's a lot of people that had a few year success you know that's not the end game and so I think about now it's about you know really taking the foundations of what we've built not sacrificing any of your principle and being toow and Thrive and people but that gets more and more difficult the bigger

you get right there's one thing saying oh we're going to do business this way when there are 10 of you and you're doing a million dollars it's very very different all these years in because there's there's no model there's nothing that you can go out and emulate we are making it up as we're going along yeah how do you how do you define winning now like is that how you define winning or you know I Define winning now by doing things that excite me like you know it's like we just launched this insane push-up bra

at skims and everyone's talking about it it's all over the place and you know like that's exciting to me because like some one of my girls in England will call me and be like oh my God I need to get that BR you know it's like I love that and I still get a thrill from you know it's like I love what I do like I genuinely really love it and I just want to keep getting better at it and for me it comes in so many different ways it's like I love giving people opportunities

I love the hiring part of it and getting to work with all different people and I think that those things for me feel really successful but if you to ask me just to like boil it down it would be like to continue the growth and what we're doing without sacrificing the principles that we set the companies up with right right right yeah I don't want to dial it down because we're you know reaching some kind of like critical mass yeah yeah how how do you you know we were talking about that you have daily dramas

you said not pains nobody talks to me when things are going well my life is just a series of problems you know from the minute I wake up to you know the minute I go to bed like that's just a fact the stress level is unbelievable and I do think that's important because you wouldn't know that looking at me or maybe just speaking to me but you know my my job is not all you know trying different Fabrics out and hanging around with models that that's just not what I do sadly yeah what what do

you find to be the most stressful thing about building a business and what do you do in order to deal with it I think the most stressful thing is probably the expectations right that that comes from the outside I honestly believe you're only as good as your last launch I never ever drink the Kool-Aid ever um and I think that you know I happen to work in extremely high profile businesses where everything that we do is scrutinized and with that comes a level of stress it comes back to that thing of being very ritualistic I

you know am militant about the things that work for me you know I suffer with migraines I get super um you know I carry stress like in my body and so it's like I get up very early I wake up I work out I meditate I make sure I have to be up before my children are up because I need like quiet time I need time to like Focus I'm like religiously grateful like I have trained myself to focus on the great stuff in my life because I feel like there is so much noise you

know whether I like it or not and so I could be overwhelmed every day in the things that are going on around me and at the end of it I'm like looking up going wow the ceiling in my bedroom like how could you even have a SE I could never imagine that I'd have such a beautiful ceiling ever you know it's like I am someone who truly stops to smell the roses like quite literally I can find good happy joy in in anything and I really make it a point and a priority to do that

every day and even as I have my tea you know it's like I have special tea from Japan and I have a special pot that I put it in and I just like taste it and every day it's like I'm tasting it for the first time but if I didn't do those things I would lose my mind you know I would lose my mind and so I think I've just trained myself to like enjoy the the kind of the rituals and the small things and be hyper grateful because there is no difference between me and

all of those kids that I went to school with in East London and I should be so lucky it's like we're here in the sunshine overlooking the whole of La I'm chatting to you I'm going to go into my office where I'm the boss and people are going to film me chatting about stuff like I don't have anything to complain about yeah but but I bet and from what I've learned today you were like that even when the milk was outside 100% I was I was like at least I have a balcony yeah yeah yeah

yeah I don't have a fridge but I have a balcony yeah because because if it wasn't there then it wouldn't be there now 100% yeah 100% if you went on a walk with little Emma as a memory you like held hands and you went on a little walk with her what do you think she'd say to you I think she'd say Well done love you did it keep going keep going yeah I think so what would you say back I say I am I'm trying I'm doing it I'm L walking forward now stop putting pressure

on me I always sit here and I think oh my goodness like I'm so proud of myself but honesty J when I think about what that means for me now and the level of responsibility that I feel that is the thing that really fuels me today because when I do something I feel a weight and an expectation of a group of people that have been historically left out and marginalized from a lot lot of these conversations and a lot of these opportunities and there is this huge sense of responsibility that I have for women especially

sort of young black women and minority women and kids that just grew up poor anywhere like I think about all that stuff every single day and I think that real success for me will be when I am you know able to really pull what I've got and what it is that I kind of like strive for and continue to achieve and and have that affect a lot more people and I do that in ways you know like through my chairmanship of the 15% pledge that's been like a huge undertaking and amazing amount of work that

I have been able to do but for me it's like that is only kind of scratching the surface and I think more and more of my work will be in how can I help so many more people that are like me you know get out of their circumstances and be able to contribute more because it just is mesmerizing to me that I've been able to go so far and it ain't because I'm something special it's because there were a series of circumstances and then enough kind of grit and determination that I was able to do

it and so it's like how do you put other people into the same circumstances so that if they have the will that they can do it too and so that's where I'm fixated right now what's been one of your favorite success stories from that or like a story from that well you know it's so funny cuz it happens again in the small in the smallest ways right it's like I'll have a CH I get hundreds of people reach out to me to say listen I'm starting a business I you know I'm selling $10,000 a month

from this Coen brand and it's like I'll jump on the phone and I'll give someone some advice like you know I had a girl a couple of years ago she was like I think I'm going to get into selfes and I want to know how to do that how do I structure the contract anyway fast forward two years later I do my first ever like ask me anything cuz my team pressured me into it um I'm like soal is just not my bad but anyway so I do the first ask me anything and all the

girls are asking me the same questions right how do you start a business how do you thrive and this girl comes up and then she says I just want to let you know that I now do however many tens of thousands a week at selfes and it was all because you helped me walk through that contract and I took your advice and I you know I stuck to the distribution plan and did it and I was like oh my God you know and so it's always those tiny things for me um and again that's just

about giving someone your time so I'm really trying to think thoughtfully about how I can do more of that in a a more systematic and a and a bigger way because sadly I can't answer every phone call or every DM that comes through yeah what are you talking about no that's so beautiful and I I think that that component is such a big part of happiness and success like course it is because you're so right like no one who's got to the top is any more special just going back to what your mom said at

the beginning like you ain't better than anyone else and as soon as you start thinking it or people also start thinking it that oh yeah that person's there because they're faster smarter better or when we do the opposite when we go they don't deserve to be there exact both of those just take it away and uh% I I look at your journey and I'm I'm so I I I like really admire the way you live and think oh thank like it's really it's it's such a wonderful mindset and it's such a strong you've been able

to craft something that's so so resilient and and you good and yeah it's so what you've been able to build and and I'm talking about almost like if we were a to physically look at your mindset it's so resilient because I can hear as we've approached it from so many different points of view it's like you have such a clear philosophy on how you live who you are what matters what doesn't matter and I look at that Clarity when when I see you is like that's the reason you are who you are and where you

are it's because you're just so clear and and I feel like no matter was what would happen either way it's like that is what you're betting on and that's what you've been building and focused on I think so yeah I think so someone write that down I really mean it I really mean it it's so kind it's so kind I love that you say that it makes me it makes me so happy because you never think about yourself in such clear terms like that right it never you are who you are in so many ways

you know and I see that with my own kids they're like four people that I think well you got exactly the same upbringing we all live in the same house I don't do one thing different and yet they are just these like four tiny individuals and at six months it's like you know exactly what kind of kid you've got like you know if this kid is like super anxious if this kid's super obnoxious like you know exactly who they are I'm sure there's lots of things and changes coming in their lives but so much of

it is just in you right and you know and then you layer circumstances onto that and you know what you're capable of what you can and can't affect and what you should be doing and so I always look at it as like I was living like a very nice very privileged life in England and I moved here specifically for work and it's been wonderful for work but in so many other facets of my life being in La has been an eye opener and it's actually fueled me in a way that I really never expected and

I always think you know if you elevate your health you elevate your life it's like if you elevate your thinking you elevate you know what your capabilities are and so for me it's just been wonderful and an amazing moment to be here because I've been able to elevate so many things that I do and I think that that should only end up in like a a bunch of other people being able to benefit from that absolutely well said write that down print it out that was yeah no absolutely like I think it's it's incredible how

you know I think a lot of people label La as Hollywood and think of it as just that yeah but it's like like I feel the same way as you like moving here like my eyes have opened up to so many more things totally that are really valuable important insightful I've met people who are doing incredible things you know what you just said now of like opening the door and trying to break down we had you know just a few months ago we had leis Hamilton here talking about 44 and talking about how he's trying

to help you know trying to help people of color get into the world of uh Formula 1 which which is a normal which him and his father were able to do like you you start seeing that happen across Fashion sports business and and that's so incredible because you start thinking about all those little Emma and little lses and and everyone else out there totally who who's just trying to figure out whether they have a shot yeah and 100% they do yeah Emma we we end every episode with a final five which we sit down and

do as a Fast Five which means every answer has to be one word to one sentence maximum one word to one sentence all right myself always I always ruin it because I get intrigued so all right okay so igre these are your final five the first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received I wish that I could make this sound as powerful as it was for me that's the first thing to say but it's a good one it was to make a decision and move on because you can be so

stifled by your decisions and when you are just stuck it just does so many other things to you and so I think it served me really well in so many ways I I used to think about it just for business and now I don't I think it's make a decision and move on yeah yeah I always say to people stop trying to make the right decision just make a decision and then make it right totally you know 100% you can go back you can go back afterwards yeah I love that that's great we've never had

that on show love that uh question number two what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received stay in your lane what was the lane oh I don't know but someone was trying to stifle me and lucky enough I listened to my little Emer side and gave her a big old beep never stay in your lane I love it but it's interesting cuz I think all the growth in my life has come when I have stepped outside of whatever Lane I was in at that time and so it's useless advice absolutely uh question number

three how would someone who doesn't know you that well describe you in three words I wish if you're listening to this you just missed out on the best facial expression you need to go to YouTube right now it's always such a worry I mean goodness me the things I've been called how would someone describe me I think they would describe me as like kind I'm a kind person ambitious and like not to be messed around with got it I like it I like the third one not to be messed around about the one word right

that's good I think that's what people think about me they're like tough yeah tough tough yeah kind but tough yeah there you and ambitious question number four how would someone who knows you very deeply describe you in three words sensitive very thoughtful and um tough love it that's brilliant we need to get your husband on the exactly to verify to verify for sure you go tough tough and tough I love it and Emma your final question uh fifth to final question if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what

would it be you know very specifically for the time we're in right now it would be to lead with kindness nothing else yeah we need it in in every little interaction in everything it's so powerful and it's what I teach my kids you know it's like just be kind like it doesn't take much and it goes so unbelievably far you know and when I say that about myself being kind it's like that is something that I think about every single day like how am I treating people what do people get from me and I'm talking

about everyone you know like everyone it's just a fact just be kind em a greed thank you for coming on on purpose this was incredible everyone who's been listening and watching wherever you are whether you're walking your dog whether you're at the gym whether you're driving to or from work whether you're listening with your friends I want you to know that uh please go and tag me and Emma in the moment that stood out to you maybe there's a quote maybe there's there was so much wisdom sprinkled across this entire episode I hope that you

find the ones that resonate with you I hope that this helps you make a shift in your career I hope this helps you make a shift in your mindset about how you're trying to balance what's going on in your world I hope this helps you think differently about the choices and decisions you're about to make uh please please please tag me an MI across social media to let us know what stood out to you please show her a ton of love Emma thank you for doing this thank you for opening up thank you for being

so real and wonderful to spend this much time with oh it's been a pleasure I've loved every second I'm so grateful to you so good to see you thank you if you love this episode you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child you could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like that is so unfair cuz that's not who I am and that really gets to me sometimes but then looking at myself in the mirror and being like but I

know who I am why does anything else matter