what does don't half asset mean to you ah if you're going to do it do it say what you can do do what you say if you can't do it don't say you can do it don't over leverage yourself don't over leverage the decision and then jump in and kind of dip a toe I think I'll try it out no think if you're going to try it out beforehand but when it's time to go dive finish it find out come out the other side don't leave it and go if I just would uhuh that keeps
me up at night I think it keeps a lot of us up at night when you half ass something you just don't know whether you failed or succeeded got what you want or didn't get what you want finding out and looking in the mirror and going I didn't have HD I went all the way I found out and that ain't for me or I found out and you damn right that is for me that's a great place to get to but the limbo of not knowing if you half ass something the limbo of going I
hedge my b that what could have happened you don't know were you surprised when your dad said that to you yeah when you were going to take a pivot in life trajectory I it wouldn't have been in the top 100 things I thought he would have said I was fully stabilizing in that moment as I said I called Tuesday night 7 o'clock he'll have had a beer he's already had dinner not Monday because that's the first day of the work week he'll be a little more stressed catch him at Tuesday when I unload this that
I don't want to go to law school I want to go to film school and I really thought he was going to go you want to do what again the family I grew up in the idea of me thinking at the idea of going into film it's like very Saturday idea a hobby idea not a job and when I shared it with him the pause that he took you know another beat of sweat started on my back of my neck before he goes well don't have ass it now I will say this though I do
know now and I didn't know it then I've realized it in the last 10 years the way that I asked him is part of the reason he gave me that answer I really wasn't asking him I called him I said dad what do you got monkey man said I don't want to go to law school anymore I I want to go to film school I didn't go I I don't I don't not feeling I'm not sure about l i I think I want to I mean I think I may want to go to if IID
have stuttered into that I think he would have again heard me half assing what I wanted and gone in the process of being told to not half ass it you didn't half ass it the way I asked the asked and he heard my own conviction and I think what he had in that moment was what I think every parent wants to hope to have with their kids is that you know we raise our kids to go in a structured form follow this and you can get most to what you want in life but what and
that can work but what do we really want our kids to do we want them to follow that and then bust out of it one day and not even ask our permission and that's when we're going That's my boy that's my girl that's my child we wanted to break out and I think what he heard then was I was breaking out without really asking his permission and I was clear I spoke up I didn't stutter my voice was out of my throat a little bit and I think that was part of why in that moment
he gave me the answer don't have F do you think that sentiment carried forward into how you got the role for daison confused that I'm going to continue to lean in I'm on the front foot I'm 10 toes down yes now how much that direct sentiment from that night when he told me don't have facet had to do with that I mean yeah it did have something to do look when he said don't have facet he was and I talk about this in the book he wasn't only giving me permission he was giving me a
responsibility he was going I knew I knew I was I had his word with me in my future decisions I was making them for more than myself I had I wanted to fail less because I didn't want to embarrass him and that was extra motivation Extra Strength extra courage extra sobriety extra like well let's find out go for it man go for it it carried on into other stories of other jobs time to kill the Joe schoem marer going I want the lead that's me going I want to find out and and and dad told
me not to half asset back there a few years ago you know so if I don't go for it if I embarrass myself I'm embarrassing him so that was also some incentive and some some weight behind those moves that I've made some of them are you a brave person in that way do you think um I don't know people say that I I don't think I take enough risk I'm told that people that whose opinion I admire think that that's my greatest asset that I take the risk I'll take and The Bravery I'll take with
and you still have a hunger for all I think I'm a still a chicken [ __ ] I mean not overall but I think there's many things that I'm I'm I'm not fully asking I think there's many things that I'm still could take further that there's still many things that um more risk I I could take and more bravery I could have yeah did you tell that story the dayon confused story of of leaning in of taking that risk yeah so I mean the initial one started when I went to on a Thursday night went
to my favorite bar at the top of the Hiatt because I knew the bartender he was in film school with me he'd give me free vodkin tonic so I went there I get there that night he brings me my girlfriend VOD and tonic tells me hey there's a guy at the end of the bar producing a movie let me introduce you to him I'll walk over introduce him to him four hours later that man Don Phillips legendary casting director who was actually a producer On Da to confuse we get kicked out of that bar I've
had as many vodan tonics as he had since I sat down so I'm not leaving easily either and I'm standing up for my new friend who we hadn't done anything to get kicked out of bar we really hadn't we were just kind of Standing On Top of the tables imitating some golf shots we had played on similar courses in the past so we get not so uh not so politely escorted out and he's in a cab we're in a cab he's riding with me to my apartment going to drop me off before he heads back
to his hotel he pulls out a joint or I pulled out a joint start smoking he goes hey you ever done any acting and I said man I was in you know Trisha Yearwood video for a second kind of more of a modeling job I was in a Middle Light commercial for about that long I go I don't know if to call it AC well you might come to this address tomorrow morning 9:30 you might be right for this part this character called wooderson in this movie Days confused I think you might be right for
the part this is 3 something in the morning so 9:30 came really quickly and I was on time probably 5 minutes early and we were already pretty tuned at this time now mind you I get there there I walk in they go Matthew I go yes they go don left the script for you I open it up it's signed by him hey here's the part wooderson I got three scenes in there three lines they're all marked check them out I think he might be right for it good luck let me know we'll call you in
for an audition I go away I go look at this these three lines one of them was what I like to call these days a Launchpad line line which is a line that sometimes they'll have in a script where if that character means that line and that character is not playing that line as an attitude or a wink or a joke if that character means that line it can you could write a book on it you could write a book based on that reality and that line in D's confused from the character wooderson was a
line when he's leaning against the wall outside the pool hall high school girls walk by he checks one of them's backsides they go by and his buddy says you got to cut that out man you're going to end up in jail and werson says no man that's what I love about those high school girls man I get older they say the same age that line I went who is that I there's a book on somebody if that's not trying to be cute if that guy's not trying to say something Coy and clever if he believes
I've got life figured out man this is my North Star so that line informed who the character was I go I read for it I remember the first time I got called back because they said the sound was bad and now looking back I don't know if the sound was bad or the fact that I just need to come back was excuse to come back and read for Richard linkl the director who I did read for and I got the part now the role was also based on as I wrote about in the book who
I thought my brother was when I was 11 my 17-year-old brother was already my hero he was cooler than James Dean and we had one day where his car was broke down and my mom when I was supposed to pick him up from school and he wasn't where he was supposed to be we're looking for him I'm looking at the back of our station wagon and there I see this silhouette of this guy leaning against a brick wall left boot heel against the brick wall leaning back lazy Sig in the right hand smoking and it
was my brother and in that silhouette he was 13 feet tall coolest dude in the world and just as I went to go wait there's P I remembered always going to get big trouble for smoking so I won't say it's in my mom goes who I go nothing but that image in my 11-year-old eyes where that was wooderson so we get to the set one night and I just go in for what's supposed to be a makeup wardrobe test meaning put on makeup put on Wardrobe when the director link ladder can leave the set and
gets a minute he comes checks you out eyeballs gives you a few notes and you say goodbye I'll see you when I come back for work well on this night I come out of the trailer link letter shows up has a look as he's walking up his hands go out he's just going yeah yeah wooderson like Peach pants is that a nude t-sh I like that what's that over there that tattoo that's a black panther tattoo yeah yeah look at the hair the comb over I like it I like it I said cool about to
say goodbye I think and he goes say man he goes uh you think you know wooderson's been with the typical hot chicks in school the cheerleaders and stuff I'm like yeah he goes you think wooderson would be interested in the redheaded intellectual and I'm like yeah man woodon loves all types of chicks he goes well listen the actress Marissa rabi is over here in her car she's got her nerd friends in the back it's the last day of school you think maybe going to pull up and try and pick her up and I'm like yeah
and he goes okay you want to do it now I said give me 30 minutes I took a walk now I'm about to be in my first scene there's nothing written I've not done this before but I'm going over scenarios where are we last day of school I got some ch in my pocket I'm working for the city sure redhe when we're going to go out I'd probably speak a little Spanish next thing I know I'm in the car getting a lav OFA mic put on me I'm getting a little anxious but I'm going who
is my man who is wooderson what do I love what do I love what I love as this mic's getting put on me I'm like I love my car said bam I'm in my 70 chevel right now there's one thing I got going for me I said I I love rock and roll man I said [ __ ] man I got Ted News at strangle hold rocking in the at track there's two I said I love getting high I said well man Slater's riding shotgun he's always got a doobie rolled up there's three and that's
when I heard action and as I looked up dropped it into drive thought of the three things I had while I was going to get the fourth and I said to myself and I love picking up chicks in Drive pull out three affirmations of the three things I did have on the way to get the fourth all right all right all right pull in have the scene try and pick her up ditch the Geeks in the back going to be you know fiest in the making whatever it was kind of spoke little Spang English blah
blah blah blah and all of a sudden it was over and a lot of people laughing and Rick comes up goes oh that's great that's great great we'll try one more time do this that did the scene to maybe two times three times I don't remember and finish it I get out people are laughing I just had fun I think Cochran in the in the seats in the Roy Cochran the actor who played Slaters and the shotgun see he's giggling I like he's like that was good man that was good and I'm like cool and
all of a sudden I'm about to leave and Rick invites me back the next night got put in some other scene anyway he invited me back every night for three weeks and I worked three weeks now what I found out two years ago was Rick also asked me that night on the sidewalk hey you'd think he'd be interested the redhead intellectual girl is because Rick had a he had just noticed that night that they had a story hole they didn't know what they were going to go I think pick up the Aeros Smith tickets in
and who and who else had a car pford had a car and I was the only one who had a car and had a little a guy who had a job and he was trying to start to fill a story hole he didn't tell me this till like a year ago and that's why he invited me into that first scene at the top notch barbecue where I said those three words which were the first words I said on screen which were the three affirmations for the three things my guy did have and I think they
came from not intentionally but leading up to that role I was listening to a lot of uh uh uh doors and there's a live track of of Morrison at some doors concert I don't know where I think it's in Europe somewhere where he barks out all right all right all right all right very aggressively not wooderson style but like four or five all right all right all right all right and somehow that pop it had no plans but that popped in my head in that moment as being let me take that version just give three
of them for the three things I've got for myself but in a more back cool way all right all right all right and pulled up how did it feel to have that positive reinforcement so quickly out of nowhere both privately and then publicly after well I mean it felt fun in the moment it felt good and then it became public right there with the crew and the cast now publicly became a year and a half later I mean look privately on that I remember going that was so much fun I think I think I I
think I was good at it people tell me I'm good at I'm getting invited back and then the other thing was I'm getting scale I'm getting 330 bucks a day and I'm working a job at Catfish Station weight tables and the most I've made there in one night is $73 and now I'm getting $ 340 or whatever it was for doing this I was honestly I remember going is this [ __ ] legal is this real what am I getting away with here man yes I'll come back for the pay and because I'm and because
it's so much fun um and then I think you probably known the story five days in my dad moved on uh Rick and I were just talking about this the other day because his his father just moved on a few days ago um we were talking about yesterday um I went home came back to work still had going through morning with my dad but had that had that sobriety that comes when you lose a loved one to death you you talk about sobering up and courage of the world even more than my dad tell me
don't have f it him passing gave me some real courage man I mean of uh looking at the world straight at straight in the eye and not being intimidated by mortal [ __ ] anymore um and so it really helped me stay and focus on the role had a great time um probably a little quieter than I was in the first five days more to myself a little bit Rick and I that's where Rick and I kind of became more friends than just director actor at that time CU he was he was the person I
was talking to about how it was feeling how to deal with my dad's death I finish that I go back to University of Texas graduate film school on the way out already packed up at the U-Haul get the Texas Chainsaw Maser job for like five weeks which was super fun um another under the table cash for play that part unloaded the U-Haul and drove out to Hollywood um and a year after that I would say when time to kill is when all of a sudden I noticed oh wow I'm I'm famous life I've cast a
new check that I didn't know about where I save the world become a mirror there was no more an anonymity um that's that was a whole new drug I think one of the themes of your worldview that I've become familiar with is alchemizing bad times into good ones um a reminder that things that seem bad can end up being good and in retrospect I think it's uh obvious and and almost romantic to think about that Alchemy in that way but in the moment yeah it's basically impossible yeah how can people or how do you have
more of that perspective during a hard time yeah um well look couple things first off you know I'm I probably start off intellectualizing something that I know I probably should believe in but don't believe in it and convince myself even to an extent to trick myself that you know to sit here and go well you just tell yourself this two Shall Pass okay great well what the hell's that mean even if it's true in the moment you're like what are you [ __ ] talking about man I'm in the debit section I'm in I'm I'm
I'm in a warning section I'm I'm it this this sucks um I I think that how much I'm conscious of it or not my undeniable optimism and faith that this isn't all it is and if it is oh so what that that that's okay well then really so what you know what I mean what's the big deal to it minimizes I don't I I seem to have a tendency not to make a bigger deal out of things that other people make a bigger deal dramas I don't like to create false drama when it comes in
theard I am affected I I I I I get the blues I get sad I get mad I'm a [ __ ] to be around I can't get to sleep I got demons in my own head trying to work trying to work the riddle out why did this happen that's the other thing that's tough for me is I think that any bad thing that happens to me my initial reaction is what' you do wrong to to lead to this like in a relationship camil and I get an argument my mind immediately goes what did you
do in the last two weeks to let this get to a point where you just had to raise your voice or she had to raise your voice her voice at you evident usually there's some PS and q's that were not handled to get to that point so I like it when things are running like this the challenge when things are running great is we all tend to think aha this is it I found it bottle it if I if if if I realize this I can maintain this forever and the truth is [ __ ]
no we can't but we can minimize it there are habits that I notice of things I take care of in my life healthwise Faith wise father wise husband wise that I'm know that if I'm doing that consistently there's less valleys there's less stress there's less warning signs there's less problematic oh [ __ ] how'd we get in this so there there's consistently behaviors that I know can I can act upon that have worked in the past we'll get back to talking to Matthew in one minute but first I need to tell you about Maui Nei
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responsibility for things that aren't their responsibility we often get told pieces of advice in the modern world it might not be your fault but it is your responsibility and one of the ways to unburden yourself is to assume that everything is but there is a cohort of people it's an arrogant no it's an arrogant notion yeah look at how I if only yeah I could have stepped in yeah you make yourself but also the first side I'm the reason that I stepped in [ __ ] which is also an asset even if someone go you
why you give yourself so much credit for screwing that up yeah beautiful yeah I mean look I think part of this for me comes from we didn't get in trouble in my family for the bad deed we got in trouble for get caught so times where I can screw up and get away with it I feel better than times that maybe I didn't screw up as back but but got busted because I got caught because I got busted because I got myself in the pickle because things didn't go how I wanted it to go or
how I believed it could go is there something that you tried to remember about the upside of a crisis during a crisis or do we just need to ride that out so I think that perspective question yeah right zooming out would be so beautiful and in retrospect if only you could give yourself the gift of distance of time yeah yeah and yet you know something hard is going to come again and you're going to be swept away by the wave I mean for me I it's it's an obvious dance to the both because you can't
jump to the objective right away and go inshah oh fatal have it this two Shall Pass I'm all I'm F no because then you don't deal with the the crisis um I do have a good I do have a pretty quick threshold for being able to laugh like honestly start giggling when I'm in the [ __ ] because I found that I'm able to handle the [ __ ] better if I just start quicker I start going are you kidding me and I will and I also my I'll get objective and remind myself things like
you going to die MC hey which gives me that ah so what this is not as big of a deal as I thought I also quickly somehow comes in my head not right now but one day this is GNA be a great [ __ ] story I quickly go to that I I'll I'll get I'll project forward into those places that ease me a little bit at least maybe look at it with a good eye you're almost imagining being that future you laughing back at this present you yeah and I that goes back to the
the faith and belief that uh you know again I'm nervous for I'm going to go speak or something I got a thing in my wat you're GNA die one day M and I'm like ah that relaxes me if I'm going in you know uh complacent I got another note I'm telling myself what you're about to say and do will out live you so so you better [ __ ] do it well you know to get me more on edge this balance is so fascinating you know being able to thread that needle being able to find
the golden mean as Aristotle talked about uh but yeah I've heard you say that uh you should make a sense of humor your default emotion yeah link later and I came up with that in a conversation about 12 years ago Richard link l and we just talking about how mad and angry and upset and offended people get if they don't know how to react if they don't have an opinion on something I mean we're like yeah man what if it would it be wouldn't the world be a better place be easier to get along with
everybody if the default emotion if you're not sure how to respond was it okay now most people people think they go well that's insensitive but that's it's not insensitive you usually think that means you're not giv the crisis credit if you can laugh at it and I wholeheartedly disagree oh that there's some sort of uh tribute in semity yeah that that that that you're not core enough about it man whatever that you know what I mean it's like oh you're not taking it seriously you're actually putting me down and and and just because you're saying
you're not you don't feel victimized and you laugh in the situation you're telling me F of me being a victim no no no no I'm I'm trying to deal because especially we talk about the if it's inevitable too that's I laugh a lot quicker when I know I'm in an inevitable pickle I have no other resource to get out of it that I know of so I'm going to start giggling a little quicker so I keep my eyes open and figure my way maybe it because sometimes the hard work and the endurance and the elbow
grease the work harder we were talking about that hustle is not the way out sometimes it's I need to back up laugh have a sip of my favorite whatever and dance my way through the raindrops out of this son [ __ ] maybe it's not banging your head on the wall maybe it's backing up and seeing Oh I got a key in my pocket that unlocks the door I'm trying I've been bloodying my skull on over banging a't banging into I do wonder why I I like being serious I'm serious about the things I do
I'm serious about this podcast as you might be able to tell by the fact we've renovated in taiban uh but there is something that you can take that too far the seriousness can become a kind of rigidity uh as opposed to being dynamically persistent you know taking things too seriously not swaying in the breeze right presuming that you like the things you do and you want to keep doing them the less robust and flexible you are the more likely you are to break in those ways and I think that humor is a lovely bit of
ballast that helps to balance that out I I would frame it this way be very serious about sense humor be very serious about comedy I'm extremely serious about comedy and I I I I you know do I take myself seriously yes but also take Serious seriously the [ __ ] I don't do I want to know everything yet but I also take seriously the [ __ ] I that that I don't know and go be serious about that you don't know that be serious about that this is freaking funny or at least it's going to
be so I try to take the comedy seriously so I think we can take sense of humor seriously and we don't have to create a new category of going oh I need to be light-hearted or care more careless and carefree we can just care more maybe about the validity a good sense of humor yeah you know instead of it being a a relief H just let me let me let go of the pressure here let me it's not it's almost like it's not it's not another bucket it's in the same bucket of commitment and persistence
endurance and talking about that balance between good times and bad times the lessons that we take from each heard a quote recently that said every man knows reflection and introspection when he's at his lowest bad times you can't do anything other than wallow in retrospective assessment yeah uh but one of my favorite things I've learned from you is when things are going well given that that's presumably what you want to have more of may be worth deconstructing that yes I I I I I I wish I could more and I I I think more of
us could all deconstruct our assets there's a there's a we happiness you can't guarantee it but there is a science to satisfaction there you can look at habits that engineered less pain in your life maybe more pleasure but at least less pain and that's that's a win um I uh uh I try to deconstruct look I don't do I write it did I used to write as much look at anybody who's ever kept a diary when what's the old sort of nostalgic idea of a diary you go there when you're in pain and you share
thoughts that you don't want to share with anyone else of those reflection and I did Ed to for some reason I don't know why but would force myself to write every day no matter how happy I happy I was and I didn't a lot of times want to go write when I was happy because I was like no I don't need to write it I don't need to become conscious of it I'm having too much fun it's getting in the way come on I'm doing it it's living it's happening but and in writing greenlet when
I went back that's a lot of the consistencies that I found that I wrote when things were going well that I was taking some for some reason taking time to go can I B can I try and bottle some science here to why things are going well and I did find consistent icies who I was hanging out with at night what I was drinking what bar I was at what food I was drinking um how exercise uh preparation for work for school um and I found things I was like you were really happy in this
segment of your life let's go back and look at what you were doing oh man I I had this I had augmenting those Scrolls I was on them every day I had some discipline where I was checking in with myself oh you were going to church on Sundays you were you were giving you you were you you you were saying thank you God before you went to bed each night you were preciate more you were pointing out you beautiful things and not taking them for granted and so I found a list of things I'm like
and when I get off track I try to remind myself ah you've been slacking on some of those and I could pull it off I've evolved I got different ways I get away with some now but you know uh I've definitely found consistencies and I think we all have them if we just notate them along the way that they're not by accident cuz we sure as hell deconstruct the reasons when we're in the funk and we don't believe they're by accident we can take ourselves to Behind The Woodshed and show ourselves exactly why we're guilty
for every reason and condemn ourselves for every damn reason we got to that spot yeah well let's if we're going to do that I just say let's let's let's cheers let's have a cheers on the way for all the things that are work for when we have [ __ ] going right also knowing that it's not forever that it will we will have a mountain to climb here shortly isn't it interesting so much of content that people like to consume books podcast autobiographies Memoirs is deconstructing the success of others so we'll happily dissect success in
other people right and yet only dissect failure in ourselves this OD symmetry all of the glory on those people well done and I must find out how to do it more even if it doesn't fit me even if there're a different Constitution different background different time for me I'll focus on the negatives right there's a really interesting uh stat around the likelihood of you ensuring that your dog completes a course of antibiotics is about 95% the likelihood that you ensure that you'll complete a course of antibiotics it's about 50% so we're prepared to look after
an animal twice as well as ourselves I I I I was I wrote a note the other day man what does that say on the back of your phone the sticker oh choose to shine very cool my daughter gave me that yeah I wrote the other day and mostly what I do is I use this Notes app right and I I wrote the other day um uh where is it it was on that note I was like what what's what's my best F I need to give myself right now is listen to my own damn
advice yeah and it followed that up with uh um where is it um yeah trying to live with less gravity and more backbone is a salty task what's that mean to you trying to live lighter with less gravity live lighter not take certain things so seriously but still have the principled backbone because as I'm getting old we get older and the and and and the Black and Whites turn to Gray and then then there's a great word compromise we all say which is such a mature thing to do and then all of a sudden we
let things slide and every when we start going well change will happen hey change is inevitable let change happen and I'm not ready I that's part of getting old I think not just getting older same with cynicism it's a disease of getting too old and I'm not ready to I don't want to be ready to give up certain things I'm going no man the beauty of ignorance those things that we believed in I've gotten away with so many things because of my ignorance I'm I'm I'm I'd be dead 14 times in this life if I
wouldn't have been ignorant of the situation I was in um and so yeah I you know not not knowing or knowing what we know it's a uh anyway yeah it's it's more backbone to hold on and be principal to what I stand for what I stand against when it becomes easier and easier to just go with the flow and I'm not ready to go let's just go with the flow I just want to I wantan to I don't want to pick the wrong battles I'm trying trying to be Discerning and not picking the wrong fights
because I like picking fights and going after challenges but I'm going to play I'm kind like man I it's tough duty to win the fair fights and there's a lot of unfair fights out there and why do I want to spend my time if I got 25 hour picking unfair fights when I'm going bused my ass to win the fair ones well also picking fights with yourself you know you hinted just there at the difficulty of a a negative inner voice you know you take things seriously you care about what you're doing you want to
achieve things in this world which means that you need to have high standards you need to posit an ideal but as soon as you deposit an ideal you then begin to compare yourself to that ideal and often you find yourself lacking because it's a [ __ ] ideal yep I think it's why a lot of relationships don't work we make her Wonder Woman and she makes us Superman and neither one of us can live up to it and that we've got that bulb that honeymoon bulb turned up to 100 watts and the honeymoon's over we're
trying to deal with some real just some real Bas stuff let's leave it 20 watts we're just lit but we're not just feverishly you know superum and I think a lot lot of us just report that on someone else and they can't live up to and it ends up not being fair to them and then they do the same to us and we both walk away going and I under I underwhelmed do you know the idea of the Michelangelo effect have you heard of this awesome so the Michelangelo effect describes a situation in a relationship
friendship or intimate partnership where each partner sees the best in the other and tries to help bring that out so the sum of the parts is greater than it is individually the reason I love it is why it's called the Michelangelo effect so the block of marble that David was carved from had been attempted by a number of other uh sculptors previously huge monstrous thing if you've ever seen David in person ginormous people can't and when you're looking up as well with that angle on the plinth it's even bigger previous sculptures had attempted and failed
but Michelangelo saw inside of the marble what was David he just needed to get away all of the things that wer I love that idea I think in life you want to be finding people that believe in you more than you believe in you that hold you to higher standards I think that's the definition of a good friend I think that's definition of a good of a good partner definition of a good husband wife um you know that they remind us of the best of ourselves they shine that light and remind us because we do
I know I do it gets I put put the blinds on it and I don't see it a lot of times and I'll be reminded I this is this has always been a thing for me um and I don't know how this correlates but I've never been as good in my dreams as I am in real life I never win the day get the girl Ace the test I can perform in my dreams I never have never have as well as I will in in real life think I'm the same and I'll get and I'll
be I guess what I'm saying is I'll be I'll pull something off I'm like did everyone see that and my friends are like no [ __ ] that's that's you bro what's the biggie you know what I mean it's kind of what I like about living in Austin Texas they're not really impressed with [ __ ] that I pull off they were thought was cool I want an oscar but they were like well no [ __ ] you know and I was kind like oh all right yeah yeah thank you man that's you know and
that's what that's what friends will do in a way loved ones will do that and be like yeah there you are again comes back to that it's so much easier to be supportive and gentle of other people yeah than of ourselves you know you will happily bestow this sort of gentle reassuring pat on the shoulder when some somebody succeeds or falls short when they tried their best right yet given the fact that you tried your best you give yourself a kick in the dick on the way out of the door and a harsh word to
follow you yep what do you think about when you do succeed and a lot of people go NOP that's nothing I I I prescribed to I I think we should take some time to be able to look in the mirror own that thing that we pulled off and go good job that's what you wanted that's what you got at the same time be able to as we do more often look in the mirror when we fail and go bogey you not pull that off you know what I mean but I I mean it's it's kind
of I'm biging the ownership idea the fail or the or the gain ownership being really important um and I don't I'm a fan of the of the ego I wish people that someone said this to me before look oh this this this acquaintance said this and it came off the cup I didn't think about it she was like tell me Matthew you're so full of yourself and I with that thinking I was like well who else am I supposed to be full of that's a good line and I stopped after I was like that's exactly
what I meant I went wrote that down I wish more people were more full of themselves not in the arrogant way but I'm talking about a healthy ego to understand and I understand ego's difference between I and me me is the objective but to know the eye I wish more people I wish we were more full of ourselves I wish more people in the world were more full of themselves I think part of the challenges in life is a lot of us are running around half-assing ourselves half fulling ourselves not full of ourselves not studying
oursel enough not holding oursel to task enough not patting our own self on the back we do get what we want enough not cracking our own whip on our backside when we do get out of line even though we knew better I wish we were more full of ourselves that way the guy that was sat there yesterday Dwayne I asked him something not too dissimilar about self-esteem he took a little while he said I like me I'd buy me a beer I just thought that's so [ __ ] great yeah I'd buy me a beer
I'd buy me a beer hey he he's he's shaking hands with himself you know and shet man I got plenty of times where I sure I'm the last guy I want to have a beer with I'm happy to say I've got some times where I'm like I appreciate drinking alone you know what I mean I mean it yeah it'd be nice would that be not more more than nice is a better word than nice but if go go try to be today someone you want to have a beer with it's pretty good easy way pretty
good bumper sticker you know what I mean could have been in the book yeah talk to me about the non-deserving complex yeah it feels similar yeah so it definitely and I think it's called in their term imposter syndrome or something like that when I got famous off of Time to Kill I had more people saying I love you and I'd only said that like four times in my life to four different people and I was like wow this is they mean it you know the C the the the the the red carpet and caviar I
started to get that feel why me why me there's other people that deserve this more than me and that's back when I had a I was using the word deserve which I'm not the biggest fan of now um I prefer er um but I didn't feel like I deserved it in the big scheme of things uh it was a I think it's a we have to what's what's dangerous about it I think it it's core it's a it's a it's a coping mechanism but it's a false humility yep yep I understand it's like it's almost
arrogant think that you're you did all that even you know it's almost like guilt is an arrog thing like who makes you the judge and jury of you on that who you know it's it's like saying being very arrogant to go oh no no no not me I I shouldn't have that um it does help you you deal when the stimulus of the world's brand new and coming on you it helps you back up because you can't you don't want to take any more arrows because you're feeling it all as arrows um I sure felt
that when I first got famous um talk about all the options and yeses brand new yeses for me in the world I pushed against it and I even had clumsy times where I got ugly just to counter it like I said I WR a book tripping myself running downhill I tripped myself because I felt like man things are going too well I need a bloody nose bam I give myself one now I feel more okay now I'm where I'm supposed to be does part of that come with the fact that I grew up in a
middle class Blue Collar family and you vality text out 12,000 people from a dad who was like you get out there and you earn you break a sweat probably I don't know um I I wouldn't so much stuff was coming at me and I didn't feel like I would I'd broken a sweat to get it I was having fun what I did and I was couldn't give myself enough credit for maybe he's going you're good at what you're doing and I was like and and and I was looking for the proverbial sweat I was looking
for the where's the exhaustion of a full working day where I actually I drew blood man I did it I made it through dude the Puritan work ethic runs strong I used to struggle I I ran nightclubs for a long time and there was a period where I didn't miss a single Saturday which was our big event uh for 204 Saturdays in a row and I would go on holiday the holidays I was having you know I'm 20 22 to 26 something like that so Prime young guy territory and uh I would go on holiday
from a Sunday morning until a Thursday evening and then make sure that I was back in the northeast of the UK why why did you make sure you got back on the Saturday night because I couldn't bear to have success without having bled for it okay because if it there was so many Hoops I had to jump through in order for things to for me to get a patent on the back had to go well because if it went badly I was less but not only did it have to go well I had to suffer
in service of it going well yeah because if it went well but came easily that was also somehow lesser like for me I felt like a sin almost yes not a disease more of a sin I was like I didn't pay a penet there man I didn't I had given enough tithe I didn't like I said break the proverbial sweat draw the blood to earn that thing and yet I'm getting all this didn't wasn't able to look in the eye didn't feel it needed things to feel I also needed at that time anonymity which I
lost yeah and I think everyone needs an anonymous soul and I had lost mine and I didn't know what was up down left or right I hand I got through stuff if I look back at my interviews the first two years I got famous I bet you they're so damn boring because I was my two rules were be a gentleman and don't lie two pretty boring rules if that's only what you're going in in for and you're creative and you got a colorful life but I was just repeat it stay down the line it wasn't
until later on that I was like oh man I trust myself enough I believe myself enough to to share how I feel about things yeah privacy is one of the Privileges that people are born with that they don't realize until theyve lost it right and uh this has been a little bit of a trajectory that I'm starting to dip my toe into over the last few years as well of loss of privacy loss of privacy Lo increased scrutiny sense of eyeballs and even you know it's a Micro Niche degenerate version of of proper Fame but
still this sort of sense of vigilance being watched in some way or another and uh yeah it's one of those odd inverted privileges most people think about privilege is something that is bestowed upon you after you have done x y and Zed but this is one of those things that as you tend to go on the trajectory most people want to go on yeah it's something that gets derated something that you lose sure and you people have you skip the salutations of hi how you doing what's your name people have bio on you they have
an idea an opinion for you before you ask for it sometimes it's hyperbole to the awesome too overly a exaggerated awesome sometimes it's well below and you walk outside you don't even have to talk to the world you know you feel eyes you see how people move towards you or move away from you or what you catch it all in your periphery and you start going they I know what I know what I know what they think and maybe that's false feels a lot better when it's maybe false but to the oh they even think
I'm better than I'm than I they think I even think I did better than I did but still disconcerting either way either way it's off bounc because it's not on it's not on Parts why I headed out to Peru after I got famous took the 22-day backpack trip I and I remember writing down I said I need I need to go test my who I am my character on people who know me as a stranger and when I left the hugs and after 22 days the hugs and the tears of the Str no longer strangers
after 22 days but the hugs and the tears were coming from people that only knew me as a guy named Matthew and that's it who showed up and met me from there no biography on me had no idea was famous no idea was in the movies and 22 years later 22 days later their weeping tears of GL gladness and sadness saying goodbye to me that gave me trust M I was like I got it I did this okay I got it I can still fix the tire I don't have to I don't have this whole
thing isn't just AAA coming to fix the car you know what I mean okay it was a it was a that was a I needed that it gave me a lot of confidence to come back to Hollywood and look a lot of the what I was deeming excess look in the eye and go I get it I get it I know I I earned getting here I'm still I still I got I got the goods all of this I may not have earned that I didn't even ask for a lot of this but I know
I got myself here okay in other news this episode is brought to you by Shopify Shopify Powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States and they are the global force behind gym shock skims aloe and newtonic look you're not going into business to learn how to code or build a website or do backend Inventory management Shopify takes all of that off your hands and allows you to focus on the job that you came here to do which is designing and selling an awesome product and when it comes to converting browsers into buyers they are
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a lonely chapter during your trajectory looking back I would say I did I mean look I had some wonderfully fun and healthy and honest single years that were became sort of revolutions that became sort of structurally tangent and it was fun stayed on the surface purposefully I kept it there they kept it there but I would still you know have many lonely nights when a man lays his head on the pillow no matter who was in the bed I was sleeping with me and felt like many times I was in neutral didn't have something that
I was building towards and chasing relationship-wise even career-wise at that time I got through it fine I didn't I didn't go overboard and overindulge and didn't get dangerous with my health or anyone else's um mainly because if I did get to if I get the blues I'd be like open your eyes Bro Look Around man you kidding me take your time and so so you know I would say ultimately I was lonely in that time because I knew I knew it was a stop not a stay and I knew I wanted more career relationships Etc
but I wasn't really fully committed I would wouldn't didn't have to maybe the the wherewithal the identity to go actually Chase it and go I know what I want I want to I want to live a way to attract that I did try and go did have a time where I tried to go find it but as I talked about in the book I mean I had time where I was every red light who's over there produce section who's over there every party who's over there you know looking for the one and once I was
like uhuh I had that great dream of the 88- yearold bachelor that I was with all the kids showing up that dream gave me Grace man because I quit looking for that one I did be start acting like someone though I my target drew the arrow I wasn't I started acting like someone who had a wherewithal and a peace of mind with myself not needing someone to fulfill that Drew her to me that I didn't have before that dream you've had a uh front row seat to some a variety of rhythms of marriages uh your
parents yours what have you learned about choosing a good partner oh well I'm and I'm still learning but friends first I mean did camil and I become friends first no we would became lovers pretty quickly but I the things I respected about her and saw that she had were things that I valued in a close friend someone who respected their past someone who had a great sense of humor but was never gonna lie to put themselves to get what they wanted in front of me or take advantage of me um someone who you know was
impressed with who I was much more than they were impressed with what I did um someone who very quickly saw the best in me and was like I like that let's see some more of that you know and W and watered that side of me so we talked about earlier see some more of that let me set thing let me put some more F on that fire so you can even be more of that why not be all of that you know um then if you're going to get together I think this was a Susan
sandon line when she was married to um what's his name Tim who was Susan sanon married to years ago an entire room of people shaking their heads great actor sha shink Redemption Tim Robbins no we are they had a line that said that that we have similar moral bottom line it's always stuck with me when you're going to partner with someone especially if you're going to have family I think make sure you got a similar moral bottom line because and look camil and I are going through New Challenges now because we have teenagers our moral
bottom line and dos and don'ts and what's accepted and what we wouldn't accept have been pretty part and parcel up until now teens are getting like well I'm a little loose over here yeah let them go let them go get that scar let them go get their heartbroke whatever that is let them go try it out and fail or succeed let them go negotiate free play She's a little more and so we're her and I are working on that balance right now um and it's a New Balance having teenagers as they're getting their independence but
having a similar moral bottom line um you know connected to Bringing out the best in the partners is having somebody you're a fan of and that they're fan you um you call each other on your [ __ ] or you don't have to call it because a look says enough and you're yeah I know yeah that was me bogy you know or yeah I got away with that one again no more cut that out um and then what I'm learning now trying to learn is that seems we're essentially all all the the person that for
me now I'm I think I'm essentially the same person I was I was 19 years ago I'm the same essentially the same person I was when I was eight 51 but our value systems reorder as we as we grow independently and as a couple your value system changes for every parent when they become a parent for what's important in their life so you read you you're moving things different places on the chart in the number one spot the two spot and three spot but to understand that it also happens with with with us as individuals
and going that we do change and how do we even by being essentially the same person that we fell in love with we still need room to change along the way and go through things that may seem inconsistent with who the DNA of why we fell in love with that person or what what we love what who someone was but you know they're still essentially that but but give them room to change give them room to change also the the um the I think it's the Springsteen line you know you don't about sometimes you're running
and the other one's walking and it's okay to be ahead but don't don't lose sight don't get so far ahead that you leave your mate lost back there going you know sometime you know somebody's real healthy the other one's on IR but we're still on the same team that takes Patience by the one who's help healthy and takes persistence by the one who's on IR but you got to got to wait up to hold that hand to go we're still doing this together even though maybe in this zone right now in my life I'm flying
and you're walking there certain things that I find well she's flying and I'm walking you know and so navigating that how how we change as we grow up um and measuring that against who we initially fell for in the first place and see well they are still that of course they changed hell I've changed I want to say you know and a lot of times I know I we said I know I said it well you've changed I was like well Heaven yeah I've changed I'd hope so yeah you know and doing that with a
partner um is part of the work I think of a of a relationship sort of talking about Transformations trajectories pivots changes Let's Escape Hollywood and go to South America and see what's going on over there Let's Escape singlehood pivot into a marriage pivot into family from diad to Triad to so on yeah I'm fascinated by the aggressive pivot that you made between different movie categories Y and that requires I think a lot of courage and hope and self-belief and and faith in order to do to let go of something good yeah for the chance at
something that you think could be great yeah I think that's something that a lot of people wish that they had a little bit more fuel for it was a big risk it was a big chance and it it was no guaranteed return ticket it was a one-way ticket possibly to I'm a head coach of high school football to this day oneway ticket to a dead end or to something new but the one way take it to a dead end in Hollywood was an actor for sure um look it's no coincidence that at that time to
have the courage to make that decision I did have really cool things going on in my life I'd Fallen love with Camila she' just become pregnant with her first child that gave me some significance of like Ah that's what I've always wanted to be it's a father here we go if I stick with it this will give me a home base to feel secure in even though I'm stepping away from what has made me given me significance for so many years and decades in my life having her to sit there as much as I knew
it was the right decision and it was a 3:00 a.m. decision in my own soul she's always been very good with me about going now say it out loud and we're going to do here's what we're going to do if we're doing this she's the one that said you could this could be dry for who knows how long you may not get work ever again but if we're going to do this I'll be here by your side and we're doing it together and we there's no going back there's no we're not going to get we're
not going to get nerves at the goal line if we don't know where the goal line we're not going to get down the line and go oh I pull the parachute uh even if it's a$1 14 million parachute even if it's $1 14 million parachute even if it doesn't work out and you become a teacher or you go become a lawyer again whatever this so making that a choice that was inevitable that there was no pulling the parachute on sure as hell helped with the endurance of me being away for what was 20 months I
learned a lot of endurance in that year in Australia though same way that gave me a lot very thick skin for enduring something so that 20 months was really hard and I've said it before that proverbial bottle on the Shelf was looking better and better earlier in the day as time went on I mean I mean how many how many more times could I work in the damn Garden man I'm like I'm not a gardener for life I like this but I gotta I gotta come on man um but she helped me stay steady I
stayed steady my faith helped me stay steady I did have a real belief whether I was tricking myself or not that there's there's a bigger pot of gold for me on the other side of this if I just out endure it if I I'll out endure this soach and it became a little like the year in Australia I started I got a little started to gain pride and honor with the longer the pendants went on of being without what I wanted and I started to be like well I'm definitely ain't backing out now man I'm
six months in turns into momentum all on a year later I'm like I'm a year in man this is getting good okay come on and out of the blue 20 months later I'd been gone long enough to become a new good idea where's MCC plus he said no to that $14.5 million offer three months ago and I guarantee that tell some people in Hollywood what's this so much up to you don't say no to1 145 million offer it was way the offer too big to get out and he said no now someone does that you
get a little more attracted to him what this this this dude's on something he's got his his own program he's playing offense on something he's not just regressing and I think that also sent a bit of a signal as my hunch through Hollywood and then then the fact that it was just honestly 20 months almost two years later where's M we haven't seen him in a romcom we haven't seen him on the beach shirtless where is he he hadn't shown up in front of our faces any I don't even know what he's doing does anyone
know what he's doing do you fear or did you fear uh not being sufficiently prolific not being sufficiently sort of uh front of stage keeping your name out there what if somebody else takes that place of me what if I become a relevant what if people forget I didn't have any fear of anyone taking the place cuz my place at that time was romcom King and I was sure I was like I'm good I've done enough of those right now I don't need another one of those right now I don't want another one of those
right now if someone steps in to take the place Bravo I always like say I took the Baton from Hugh Grant and then I had my time I was like who do you think he threw it to I don't know the romcoms are not not they're definitely not as healthy of a genre now as they were then we were rolling in the romcoms they were like can't misss man they their medium budget 30 35 mil so their studi is not blowing their W on the budget they come out they make good money Studios make good
money all of them kind of worked even the ones that didn't work as well kind of worked yep huge potential audience everybody can go see it repeats on Valentine's Day come on you know um so I don't I don't know that did really hand it to I don't know anyone's really jumped in that lane or if that Lane's even got a h wanted sign anymore you know um did I feel the irrelevance sure I felt the unease of irrelevant I mean but then I got I became irrelevant I mean it got to the point where
I knew I was irrelevant it got to the point where I remember my agent saying I said you heard anything goes Matthew I haven't heard your name in over two months I was like and you're my agent you only have five clients he goes yeah I haven't even heard your name I'm like that sounds pretty much like irrelevance to me bro okay all right but never like I was shaky but never was I gonna go okay I'll go back rip Co I'll do it never was i g to pull the parachute and you know would
I if what if I didn't what if those calls never came would I regret that sitting here now I don't know maybe I wouldn't be sitting here now but I bet everything I got there's no way I'd regret it whatever I'd be doing in my life right now I would have said this opened up we start off the conversation with this the things you don't get have give us more put us more in places of where we where we are where we find our own satisfaction than the things that we do get in many ways
I mean like I say it's you know life's mystery going forward the science looking back when you look back we we can all connect every single dot it's mathematical scientific how we got to this table right here we got plans for this afternoon but we're not sure what's going to happen but everything looking back it's it's it's it's all connected if we go back and look at it and there's a whole lot of I thought that was the end well it was the end but it was the beginning of this thing or I caught that
red light and therefore made me 60 seconds later to get to that Cafe where I met that movie producer or that woman who became my wife or whatever that is they don't make sense at the time but well looking back it's all a sign trust really is everything when it comes to supplements a lot of Brands may say they're top quality but few can actually prove it which is why I partnered with momentus they make the highest quality supplements on the planet three of the products that I use to support my brain body and sleep
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they Shipe internationally right now you can get exclusive Early Access to their Black Friday sale until November 25th you can get 25% off this very stack plus a free Five Night trial of their sleep packs by going to the link in the description below or heading to Liv mous.com wisdom and using the code modern wisdom a checkout that's l i v m o m n t us.com wisdom and modern wisdom a checkout is that quote about uh the ironic tragedy is that life has to be lived forward but only makes sense in Reverse Yeah ironic
tragedy who who said that I mean what do you think about all the life's the ironic tragedy life is pain and it just is nothing but pain but so we if just if we can endure it like I I my mom I I I I can't help she's worn me down with her endurance of her prescription on life how old do she know 92 and she is the ab she's absolute proof of the value of denial if you really commit to it absolutely committed denialist committed denialist and it's not an intellectual trick there's no oh
I'll I'll intellectually deny it so then I'll talk myself in so now I can not faking it until I make it yeah yeah yeah fat complete no it didn't happen no Mom it did no it didn't not say it didn't it didn't and she's not you don't catch her in between the lines or off by herself realizing like oh well it did no it's done non-negotiable done her favorite word is yet Mom how you think you're living so long well I can't imagine not being here geez oh man that's pretty good I really can't I
honestly cannot imagine not being here so she she's beating two types of cancers on aspirin and we're like that doesn't make any sense and we have to tie her up in holler to the doctor the dermatologist if you get something on our leg because go going to a doctor in her mind recognition is recognition of possible sickness so you go there remove a cancer take some cancer medicine do you have cancer no I don't and you wink and she does not wink she I don't I I don't what anyway if you're gonna if you not
if you're not following sup you don't believe it next question that's how she is and she's ban she's not playing a trick she just does it it's a full-on commitment to denial and it's and it's awesome she would not prescribe to life is painful and you have to get through it she thinks it's now mind you she's very anti- because she she's someone who like I I think I touched on on the book she had a horrible motherhood mother and in Parental growth she did not know how to be a mother how'd she become a
great mother by saying I'm doing the opposite of what that [ __ ] did There's value to that of going well I this sucked I don't know how to do this but if I just do the opposite dude I love this idea so I grew up in a very workingclass Town Northeast of the UK famous only for having the highest teen pregnancy rating in England and then it lost that so it didn't even have that anymore and uh I think there's that idea of food deserts in America where it's areas in which it's difficult to
get good food and I think that uh Stockton on te's in the 90s was a role model desert at least for me so I wasn't around many people like the person that I wanted to be like and at the time I think I was desperately looking like a thirsty man parched for water for somebody that would be that but in retrospect again ironic there were a lot of people around me that were people I didn't want to be and I was able to plant flag Poes in the ground that helped me to avoid the catastrophes
and the tragedies that would have awaited me had I have done that I don't want his relationship with his family I don't want the way that he drinks in order to be able to deal with his emotions I don't want the way that he speaks negatively about all situations I don't like the way that yeah I think much of life is avoiding pitfalls not necessarily Expediting successes the pitfalls can take you out of the game completely in one form or another and yeah I I I don't like dwelling on the negatives in that way but
also that's another version of alchemy that we were saying before hey here's something that you think is useless or toxic or not yeah not valuable and you've managed to turn it into something that benefited you it's the same reason why teaching people lessons that you've gone through from tragedies traumas whatever in your life it's kind of like pointing at the thing that was bad and saying you didn't get me I'm going to make sure that you're not going to get them either yeah and even looking at the things that are bad and going oh thank
you appreciate that I mean the the push off you have established leverage rather than the create to you know you're going to lean into something you also need something to push off the push off is what you're leaning into is that mystery going forward right that ironic Str that you have something to push off the well I don't know what I do want but I do know I don't want that you have leverage yes you know to it's it's there so I don't know I mean we can get into a big discussion on on on
victimhood here as well but I you know I I wrote about in green lights about how you know we always say well who are you you I want you to figure out who you are and we ask I tried to I try not to ask my kids that now well I want you to know who you are now part of that who's helped me is Bob Dylan's line like I don't know what all this talks about who we are man we are all just what we create ourselves to be and that gives me a little
oh that's relaxing but the it's so much easier to figure out who you're not and if you start eliminating the who I'm not by sheer mathematics you end up moving toward who more of what feeds you and who you are and it's a hell of a lot easier thing to go how can I get rid of some [ __ ] in my life than it is to go well how do I go to my true self do I want to press the accelerator more quickly or do I want to take my foot off the [
__ ] break right yeah yeah and sit there and and because I'm I'm I'm banging my head here and I'm gonna eliminate some of that stuff I want to get some of those things out of the way that didn't had another hangover I drank the same amount when I didn't don't usually have a hangover oh maybe it was the conversations I was having maybe it was you know maybe it was the people I was hanging out with those just clocking some of those things and elimin them is a much easier place to start you know
and maybe maybe more is it maybe more valuable I mean I don't know I always like to think that the the UFC champ or the the boxing heavyweight champ that believes they are the greatest is more empowering than the one who's out for Revenge but man the one out for Revenge wins a lot of the times the one who's pushing against yep now I'm going get back at you rage nothing gets more [ __ ] done than that emotion of Rage we like to say no freedom and light is the one that carries man I
don't know that may be too evolved for us to really grab a hold of rage and anger and revenge are Mighty powerful emotions man yeah yeah they get a lot of [ __ ] done yep especially in the beginning especially for a short period of time I think when you it's a potent fuel that's toxic in the long term and I think that it's the sort of thing that you use to overcome the activ a energy especially the beginning of a thing right I need something to kick me out the chip on my shoulder from
the kids that didn't believe me in school the fact that I felt like I was mistreated or victimized or or or in some form there was something some limitation plac on me it's a pretty good fuel that'll get you a long way yeah but you do not want to be using that two three four decades down the line well and you'll you'll what do you call your self implode because you can't recognize your allies from your enemies and you start taking it out on your allies we see it in relationships you start taking it out
on your mate start taking it out on your wife your husband your lover and like I'm an I'm I'm I'm an ally man we're on the same team but you're you you're back to that non-deserving no I've gota I gotta bleed no I gotta I gotta I gotta I gotta win I gotta get angry now you hey well also you've the lesson that you've taken is enemies are more functional motivating sources than allies right therefore if I can make enemies out of allies I will just find Lily Pad Lily Pad Lily Pad I'll just keep
jump jump jump jump jumping yeah but that like I think what you're saying is that that that that trajectory starts to go it's not but what have you got left you've got an entire world filled with enemies or at least no allies right and yeah you know as someone who used a chip on his shoulder for a good while to get some activation energy I'm much prefer the version that I am now me and a friend have uh three versions of ourselves that we think about so we have uh dopamine Chris we have serotonin Chris
we have cortisol Chris okay and uh dopamine Chris is lean in he's thinking about plays on the show and and how magnificent big it's going to be and awards and cool money and stuff like that and cortisol Chris is seeing threats and anxiety he's looking out for that that ambient vigilance that I was saying before he's on edge then serotonin Chris is taking a micros of magic mushrooms he's playing pickleball with his friends or he's lying under a tree looking up at the sky I want to spend as much time in serotonin Chris as possible
you do yes I want to spend as much time in serotonin Chris as possible and I find myself serotonin Chris magic mushrooms in a hammock hanging with his buddies exactly yeah I want to spend as much time in that as possible uh but that wouldn't have got me out that wouldn't have been the escape Velocity that I needed to be able to leave whatever atmosphere was in I needed to use these other I needed to to run away from a life that I didn't want and run toward one that I did needed to escape something
that I feared and I also needed to go toward something but the the real Bliss is when you go orthogonal to both of those which is let me ask you this so when you're serotone and Chris magic mushrooms with your buddies in the hammock how long can you lay in that hammock before you get to the Impostors the thing hey I got to I got to go accomplish for me it's it's it's it's going to accomplish something to have some sort of purpose I've got to I'm still working on getting better on vacations I'm much
my wife knows that I'm much easier to get along with on vacation if I get a couple hours to write in the morning and get a workout in dude I wish I could go two weeks with going hey man whatever but I get I get antsy I get edgy I'm not present because I need a little need a little time to go break a sweat mentally physically and then I can be then man the rest of the day I'm great I love this topic I've been thinking about it so much recently uh type A people
with type B problems type B people with type A problems okay so the insecure overachiever needs to learn how to line a hammock yeah and the lazy person who's on the verge of bankruptcy needs David gogin shouting in their face right yeah now the interesting thing is because of culture and because of the way that people are perceived a person who is overworked but outwardly very successful will always seem to be in a more preferable position than someone who's on the verge of bankruptcy and needs to get off Xbox right so we we gift more
sympathy because it seems charitable right seems supportive to the person who you just need to work harder think about what you have contributed to the world which are movies in every movie the training montage of the down Underdog is them working hard and and and learning to get up on time and be disciplined and so on and so forth I don't know of any movies where a guy learns to log out of slack at 600 p.m. and lie on a beach holiday right how how like opulent and transactional and dop am energic are you that
you need to be taught how to chill out you not know there's people out there that would kill to be in the position that you are that's that's that's the dialogue right there that's interesting how about a how about a movie about the um a lwh hand mov movie for the type A that needs to learn how to chill get off slack and go hang in a hammock and pulls that off and don't and don't ask permission to tell it don't ask for don't ask for boohoo for the for for the character just because no
one no one's showing that I mean look what do we do today what are the things going you probably know better than I do there's a lot of it's like people gotten much more in meditation successful people got much more to meditation uh you brought one up earlier psychic cilin is psychocybin is now sort of an sort of an Avant guard sort of hair hey man this is a way to work cold plunge SAA sound healing yeah now how many of those are we going to look at in 10 years and go that was a
fad how many of those are we going to go that was a really cool Discovery Well here's the vicious thing about those modalities that a lot of people I I call it productivity Purgatory which is the things that you do for fun you own only do in order to be able to service more productivity when you get back to it right so why do you do your breath work not because it makes me feel good and I like to do breath work but because I watched an Andrew hubman podcast episode that said that it allows
me to work 15% harder the next day you go no no no like your recovery modalities should be in service of themselves it do you think this is a if we're going to call it a sin or disease I'm going to do that for stereotyp typical word you think this is a sin or disease of the West because for instance I'm in I'm in I'm in in Italy and we're with this wonderful couple older couple and they're both like 80 and they were just had their [ __ ] together man and the lady was in
great shape I get good great shape she was oh I I swimming around this um Island each day and uh and then they swimmed there and and and my question was how far do you swim and she was like what I swim until I don't want to swim anymore I was like it's a very Western idea how far how much time she was like I swim until I don't want to swim anymore you wanted to quantify it quantifying like you traed on straa right you've got a spreadsheet for this do you have do you have
your or ring on she was like what she was confused at my question and I was like ah the beautiful stereotypical difference in a European thought and a western thought but it's similar to that it is very I mean we were playing a friend's birthday earlier this year in Miami and there was a pickle ball court but we were playing I like good British blos we were playing um sort of foot tennis instead and I realized that we were playing to win and I didn't want to play to win that wasn't the energy I want
I was in dopamine Chris and I wanted to be in serotonin Chris so I said why don't we change the rules of the game and work both teams separately but together to try and make the most beautiful game that we can I want us to everyone to be doing trick shots you want to set up the other side to do trick shots some of the guys were good football freestylers stuff like that and the first resp resp from my friend that came up with the serotonin dopamine C disol thing George his first response was yeah
and we can count them and no no let's keep the mathematics out of this and that's your lady swimming around how long how far how many times yeah yeah what yeah I'm taking this thought to my I'm going to play tennis for two hours when when I leave here and the girl I'm going to hit with as much as I can I'll see if I could do it I I doubt I can do it for two hours but I'll see how long I can do it I'm going try and set her up for great shots
and see see see how the rallies go yeah but even then within that well was that shot better than the last one was that more beautiful I you know it's this infinite [ __ ] regress of performance metrics and all the rest of it speaking of which in other news this episode is brought to you by skims if you've ever wondered how mccon makes everything look so effortless here's a tip start with been comfortable with skims new box of briefs that's exactly what you get no awkward adjustments no bunching just a perfect fit that moves
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in six weeks time it's the 10th anniversary of interstellar I think it's being re-released in theaters in 70 mil IMAX in IMAX yeah okay how did that movie change you it's my favorite movie of all time so thank you for I have a lot of people tell me that that that's your favorite movie of all time and that's another that a lot of people go had to go watch four times there's a lot to take in there to say again classic Nolan um yeah um how did it change me and you're not talking about like
the success of the movie like the sub material everything else I working with Christopher learning about I mean you know Kip Thorn [ __ ] the consultant physicist on that show so much stuff yeah also you know it was in that in that sense it was similar to when I did a movie called Contact and I got to sit with Carl Sean for three and a half hours and he went through and I remember walking away from that going oh my gosh as a Believer God's backyard's a whole lot bigger than I thought it was
which is a very humbling and empowering thought um I mean look the main thing was I think on the on the human side of the real me personally I was like oh you don't leave your kids to go do what your dream is and then when I change dream what your dream is to to go do what you're meant to do what you were born to do that you have an ability to do like nobody else I'm just like oh well maybe you do leave your kid that that argument and that leaving which is that
countdown that's I remember that's where I was so that's the scene I'm remembering is the price you pay the cost the consequence of chasing down and I had my initial thought was O Cooper's being selfish in the wrong way you know don't and then it's a good argument though I don't think you can easily say that um there's a major consequence with that but look at what and I look I I deal with it now I got three Gibs doing my favorite my favorite job what I think I was I feel find extreme and endless
purpose in imp parenting but I'm dabbling in different versions of leadership that have to do with the betterment maybe I hope of more people and but it would be coming a consequence of being there and being present like I want to be for my three children and my wife as our family I haven't found anything that I believe is worth that at the sacrifice of this yet and my argument with myself there is the best exports we can have if we do it well as our children no better export you can put out no better
extension of yourself no better way to uh uh um uh you know affect create Legacy the world um than doing than hope hopefully having some healthy children that can go be independent enough and of you know you and you Tau them when they see they see the world in the right way and can chase down things that they love and they hopefully love the right things so contributing to anything in place of that is a net negative well that' be my argument at at the sacrifice of fewer that I feel like oh that's that's millage
I've really got to I've got it that's I'm I'm helping give them the pallet to paint on and I'm I'm handing the the the the right colors to them and letting them fall from the right Heights of the wrong the right trees you know to where they get bruised but hopefully don't break a neck you know what I mean um so but I don't but it's a but it's a good argument one that I understand on the other side is and I have friends that go have sacrificed that I have friends that have been very
successful even in the career of being an actor in Hollywood and a successful actor in Hollywood you know just brings me back to when we first had kids before Camila pulled the the goalie to get pregnant she goes one condition you go we go and my first reaction was hey hey hey hey I'm Lone Wolf artist here man I go off my Airstream with my dog I'm a solo you know coyote here man and while I'm saying that I heard my mother's voice go you better nod your head and say she's giving you a gift
say yes ma'am and I did yes ma'am and that we've done that I a 16y old or 14-year-old and 11y old no doubt that has a major contribution to how to whatever strong strength our family is I think our family is very strong and the security that my kids have and the courage that they have that because we've never been away from each other that long they picked up came with there's another side I understand you go got opportunities that can do great things I can share art or leadership in the world that hey I'm
going to be away and maybe that's even there's argument that that could be better for your children later on or maybe better for their children mhm well this is that you know we were talking about that infinite regress of being mean to yourself or emotions about emotions and stuff uh thinking about the decision that Koopa needs to make and also the decision that you need to make it's you can always continue to kid yourself a little bit more is it more virtuous to stay at home yeah with your children to raise your children despite the
fact that the likelihood of them surviving into the future and their kids surviving into the future is lessened by that okay but then if you go and do the thing you leave them you're making that sacrif but are you doing it because you want to save the world or you doing it because it's your dream or the fact that you can get something virtuous out of something that's also your dream is that [ __ ] purit and work ethic we were talking about before which is I the only way that this can be a virtuous
decision is if I suffer yeah more I it's only suffering not just that it's good for the future but also that I don't want to do it because if I don't want to do it then I know that it's really really true cuz it's a high price that I pay because go pull it off and this is the as far as I can see the curse of the deep thinker amen amen amen uh a curse and gift because because it does do one thing that we hadn't brought up at a very base level and I
think this goes along with stress anxiety at the very base it mean in something that we can't take for granted cuz not everyone has it it means you give a damn yes and let's not throw let's not throw that out like oh of course you no because not everybody does it means you give a damn about more about more than just yourself and that is a high that's a high-end value and not an old fashion nostalgic thing to go oh that's so 1950s [ __ ] that's a real thing some people can't care or some
people struggle to care about things entire people that go through their lives it's odd especially in the UK um loving things being too Keen right Americans kind of have permanent firstline Cocaine Energy very excitable and I like it I like excitable people I like enthusiasm however the UK doesn't necessarily have that quite so much and I always think how much more I would how much I wish I could gift that back to the UK about how much that positive reinforcement we was saying it before that first scene that you do and the guy next to
you goes hey that was pretty good yeah yeah the right encouraging word the right time where would that push people to and okay if that's what you want for you in the world you have the opportunity to be that for other people and maybe it's going to start to come back around and maybe we can begin to change culture a little bit by doing this when will that English or or does it does it have someone though that is constantly like ah Bullocks that goes and succeeds that the English culture goes [ __ ] Bravo
is it ever R so interesting stat around the UK globally so far in 2024 the UK has the second highest number of millionaire exits on Earth what's a millionaire exit a millionaire that has left the country and is now living in a different a different Nation China first 15,000 UK second 9 and a half thousand but the UK is 3% of the population of China so proat we have got by far the most millionaires leaving by far we do not have a good culture around supporting success around uh people doing different things another great example
of this uh the UK has got three universities in the two or three universities in the top 10 in the world as does America so it'll be Oxford Cambridge maybe Kings or Durham in the UK and there'll be Yale Princeton Harvard something else in the US and a couple of others and we have 20% the number of startup Founders despite the fact that we have the same number of University graduates going from Top Flight universities why culture but speaking of that what did you learn you did the gentleman with guy yeah you spent a good
bit of time presumably and meshing yourself into British culture what did you learn while you were there well so there is still a royal dance to play the part and do and that I found that interesting and quite entertaining I remember you know that everything has there's a costume and a and a timing and who goes here when and here's how you sit there and this is how we do this and I found it very interesting and pump and Circumstance yeah it was all there and and and I never and I and I indulged in
and and and and and played that part and enjoyed B of Whimsy now when I went out and they saw that I was actually very good shot at pheasants I got a few hey I got a few Out Boys bring the American over here hey we like you now right good with guns um and then I remember this one though where the the the the I think the term is where the Posh went overboard but nobody seemed to notice it but me and we were at this dinner and it was one of those dinners where
24 people on this side 24 people on that side m is down there and mis's down here Ms has a 24 foot by 18 foot oil painting of herself over her chair and Mis has an 24 foot by 18t over his chair and it was just ABS it's just all just [ __ ] great everyone had their own waiter they s ding on time and this is just absolutely great well after the dinner the youngsters the sons and the daughters had come over with their friends and they were all also POs to smoke a cigarette
yes and I remember this one get flick in the ash there's an ash tree right there the table boom on the carpet I was like dude and without even saying it's like no man it's it's more Posh it's it's a it's a it's a I'm posturing it's it's it's cooler to go I'm I can drop my ash on on your $550,000 Persian rug than it is to put it in the ashtray and I was like why that one I I think y'all went overbo I think you went out of bounds on that one but the
fact that that was it was a was games but but they were doing it inconsistent isn't it fascinating the Americans are basically blind to class you've had to use the word Posh almost in speech marks there right it's like a word that yeah yeah yeah there is not a single School child that doesn't use the word Posh in primary school once a day in England everybody and it means class it means this person is well too for a well-to-do background and there's you know I remember uh there was a guy uh that I played Cricket
with uh cricket is still a working-class sport in the UK it's not necessarily upper class it's very workingclass Town it was a kid who got uh a Class Mercedes used uh for his 17th birthday which is when you can drive in the UK I was like Wow Danny's from a posh family I never really knew that much but I knew he had money he always had nice kit he always had new new boots at the start of each season but I was like wow he got a MC in retrospect it's maybe a seven Grand car
10 grand car something like that for me I'm like oh mer yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah is there something though going on with the as as the royal family and the king and the queen losing power and that's becoming is is is these these millionaire exits is this still a bit of a how dare you become that wealthy in the private sector you're not a Royal or no I I certainly don't think with regards to that but there is definitely uh skepticism around the monarchy at the moment um and I'm really not sure where I
stand and that one of my friends is a very compelling argument that we should do away with it doesn't like the word your highness higher than what uh but also what was it that you were just saying like what have we got if we don't hold on to the culture and the things that people know us for and I like the pump and Circumstance when I graduated uh from Newcastle University there's this 10minute procession of different mace bearers literally wielding medieval weapons dothing their caps to different people in different sequences in order to show who
and where and why and it's like this is [ __ ] cool D whatever it is it's still cuz America we're whether we know or not we're hungry for ritual yes and we don't have near as much it's not established right there trees that are older than your country yeah we're just just puppies I hope that you don't get watered down to where yeah because y'all have amazing ritual laugh giggle at it or not do it and appreciate it and go this is a different place and it's been around it's been around a while um
yeah Posh it's class okay yeah yeah little bit well to do okay you mentioned there about um some of the prices that people need to pay in order to be who they are yeah I'm fascinated by this question I'm fascinated by the cost of Entry price of doing business to be a person that other people admire because I think that it helps to humanize others success and it helps to mitigate jealousy and envy uh because you you see what someone has had to go through in order to be in a position you think you want
to be they go oh you you get to see this much by the way there's this monster hiding behind what do you wish more people knew about the price of success in life well success has taken on different definitions over time it used to have to do and some people listen and this will be like ah come on M just have to do with some Integrity um that actually I think was a word that was in the definition in 1901 or 11 um and now you know money Fame that's your definition of success so it
seems to be that and always has been to some extent Whoever has more is the most successful more access more money you're the winner um the last for a lot that is I'm not saying it's a it's it's a race to the red light but I am saying the fourth quarter of that being your goal the it has the residuals decline on quality of life I've met many more very rich men who've chased that dollar to be successful and to be relevant for having the most money that the last 15 20 even younger years were
bewildered lost had no relationships didn't have purpose chasing the dollar they they just did it they were good at it and made it happen but they didn't feel what they were doing they couldn't even necessarily say what they were really good at just good dealmakers or made the right calls in certain mathematics um that's but that's definition um it's also why wasn't surprised when Trump first got elected had Fame had money we sell that every day in the west as this is how you make it is what you do that's America yeah um so I
was not surprised because that's where we're getting fed um what a success um I I just let me let me prephase it with this we all want to be relevant but I think we all forget to ask ourself relevant for what before we chase our relevance or chase success I think there's a difference between success and profit mean profit does pay you back can you do things and I'm I love money I'm all for it but there I I I see a lot of one-way tickets that are you can get successful win have more money
but not be making a profit in your life not you how many times we sacrifice quality for quantity the two don't have to be separate now you may have to make some sacrifices of quantity to have more quality but I think we should give quality more credit than we do well are we not ultimately having more quantity in the hopes of more quality you're sacrificing but that that that's not a quid pro quo it doesn't it doesn't equal out to that we believe it it will and hey it can access I mean I got a
lot of things now for money I've made that I'm like damn right man I'm glad I have that that makes my life not even more convenient I actually like that more um I like what I can do with my family more with that I like what I camil and I can do as a husband and wife I like what I can do solo even more with that enjoy it um and it again it feeds me um but would I be any less would I be any less happy if I had a 30 a 40 a
50th of what I have right now no I know that there's no I know way I'd be any l happy no way I'd be less happy do I want to give all that away and say well make me poor sometimes I'm like yeah you need to be more poor other times like no no no no no don't be getting the impostor syndrome on this one you're using it for you're using it pretty good you could use it even better but don't be don't get mad at it you know what I mean um I think we
just need to ask ourself that question relevant For What and also in the pursuit of quantity which is what the world rewards um ask oursel read to watch out just drinking the Kool-Aid and go what is the quality what do I want and again that's a hard question of what I I value the most what I really value the most and it's a hard question to answer but if we can answer that make sure you're you're it'll make you it makes us answer the quality question of what we want more of and not just the
quantity question because a lot of us I've done it too been blind as could be chasing the quantity to see let me see if I can get the biggest number that's dop of me Matthew dopamine Matthew and I'm pretty damn good at it if I want to put on my business out and go that's all I'm going to be right here found out I'm pretty good at it but I don't want to stay in that dopamine Matthew on that on that um because I don't get the reward I get the reward of the the the
acquisition but the acquisition does not equally pay back the dopamine of the getting it's the Conquering that's the that's the hit you know um redefine everyone can have their own definition of success and ask yourself can I have quality with the quantity and can I have profit with my success and profit goes into leans into relationships I think profit ends up to be a spiritual question too um and how how we treat ourselves and others I think it's a longer game this Chase for just success if that's money and quantity is a is a short-sighted
game if that's all if that's all you're after now I understand some people out there who can't pay their rent who are sick and trying to make it to the next day or listen would listen this and go easy for you to say and I say you are correct I'm speaking from where from my position because you asked me because you got some people that are going I'm not this is a h this hyperbolic conversation you're having I'm trying to make it to the next day man type B person with a type a problem thinks
what a champagne issue that is yeah it's but it's it's it's it's a real one and and uh I'm apologizing for it but I understand the difference but I would just I would say that if more people that are type A and maybe things are working out just check your quality as as you're chasing your quanity and make sure that whatever you're succeeding at is giving you actual profit and actually paying you back Matthew mccon ladies and gentlemen dude I really appreciate you I I love the way that you think I love your insights about
life congratulations on the new book congratulations on the tequila and uh thank you thank you for coming today I really really enjoyed this I did too Chris very much glad to be here man met up top in a barn somewhere in Austin where I was looking down to didn't even know where I was going show at a barn I was like oh this is where we are yes it is seems unbrand for you I like it heck yeah dude until next time until thank you very much for tuning in look uh we went to a
lot of effort to get Mr mccon here and convert an old Bond that's uh from the 1800s in Texas so I really hope you enjoyed it I'll see you next time
