Bruce Lee faces a real dilemma he's on the verge of stardom in the United States with a projected TV series on the horizon but he's just achieved superstardom as a film actor here in Hong Kong so what does he choose the east or the West it's a kind of problem most budding movie actors would welcome it's the Pierre Burton show the program that comes to you from the major capitals of the world this Edition comes to you from Hong Kong and Pierre's guest is the man who taught karate Judo and Chinese boxing to James Garner
Steve McQueen Lee Marvin and James Coburn the newest Mandarin Superstar known in the West for his appearances in Batman The Green Hornet Ironside and Long Street his name is Bruce Lee and he doesn't even speak Mandarin and here's Pierre well how can you play in Mandarin movies if you don't even speak Mandarin how do you do that well first of all I speak only kones yeah so I mean there is quite a different as far as pronunciation and things like that going so somebody else's voice is used right for definitely definitely you just make the
words was doesn't that sound strange when you go to the movies especially in in Hong Kong in your own town and you see yourself with somebody else's voice well not really you see because most of the maning picture done here are dubbed anyway they dubbed anyway anyway I mean disregard I mean they shoot without sound so it doesn't you know make any difference your lips never quite make the right words do they yeah well that's where the difficulty lies you see I mean in order to because the cantones have a different way of saying things
you know I mean different from the mandarine so I have to find like something similar to that and keep a kind of a feeling going behind that something that matching the Mandarin do like complicated like the old silent days but I gather in in the movies made here the dialogue is pretty stilted anyway yeah I agree with you I mean uh see to me a motion picture is motion yeah I mean I mean you got to keep the dialogue down to the minimum did you go to did you look at many Mandarin movies before you
started playing the first one what did you think of them when you saw them quality-wise I mean I have to admit yeah that it's not quite up to standard however it is growing and it is getting higher and higher and going to toward that standard than what I would term quality they say the secret of your success in that movie the big boss which was such a success here in rocketed you to start them in Asia was that you did your own fighting uh as an expert in the the various martial arts in China what
did you think of the fighting that you saw in the movies that you studied before you became a star well I mean definitely in the beginning I had no intention uh or whatsoever that what I what I was practicing and what I'm still practicing now would lead to this to begin with uh but martial art has a very very deep meaning as far as my life is concerned because uh as an actor as a martial artist as a human being all the I have learned from martial art maybe for our audience who doesn't know what
it means you might explain exactly what you mean by martial art right uh martial art include all the combative Arts like karate or karate Judo Chinese Gung Fu or Chinese boxing whatever you call it uh all those you see like iido call I can go on and on and on but it's a competive form of fighting I mean it's not some of them became sport but some of them are still not I mean they're used for instant kicking to the groin japing fingers at the eyes and things like that no wonder you're successful in the
Chinese movies are full of this kind of action anyway they needed a guy like you could violins man so you didn't have to use a double when you moved in The Bu picture World here you did all yourself can you break five or six uh pieces of wood with your hand or your foot I'll probably break my hand in foot but tell tell me a little bit U you set up a school in Hollywood didn't you for people like James Garner and Steve McQueen and the others yes why would they want to learn Chinese martial
arts because of a movie role not really I uh most of them you see uh to me uh at least the way that when I mean when I teach it all type of knowledge ultimately means self knowledge mhm so therefore they are coming in to I mean for and ask me to teach them not so much of how to defend themsel or how to do somebody in rather they want to learn to expresss through some movement be it anger be it uh determination or whatsoever so in other word what I'm saying therefore is that he
is paying me to show him in combative form the art of expressing the human body which is acting s isn't it well or it would be useful tool for an actor to have I mean I might it might sound too philosophical but it's un acting acting or acting un acting if you you've lost me I have so what I'm saying actually you see I mean it's a combination of both I mean here it is the natural instinct and here is control you are to combine the two in harmony not if you have one to the
extreme you will be very unscientific if you have another to the extreme you become all of a sudden a mechanical man no longer a human being so you it is a successful combination of both so therefore it is not only I mean so therefore it's not Pure naturalness or unnaturalness the ideal is unnatural naturalness or natural unnaturalness ying yang you're right man that's did yeah one of your students um James Coburn played a in a movie called Iron Man Flint in which he used karate is that what he learned from you uh he learned it
after oh he went after he played an AR right you see actually I do not teach you know Kate because I do not believe in Styles anymore I mean I do not believe that there is such thing as like Chinese way of fighting or the the Japanese way of fighting or whatever way of fighting because unless human being have three arms and four legs we will have a different form of fighting but basically we have only two hands and two feet so Styles tends to uh uh uh uh not only separate man you know because
they have their own doctrines and then the doctrine became the gospel truth you know that you cannot change you know and but if you do not have style if you just say well here here I am you know as as a human being how can I express myself totally and completely now that way you won't create a style because style is a crystallization you know I mean that way it's a process of continuing growth you talk about Chinese boxing how does it differ from say our kind of boxing well first we use the feet uhhuh
that's that's and then we use the elbow and you use the thumb to you name it man we use it all you have to you see because I mean that is the expression of the human body I mean the everything I mean you know not just the hand and when you're talking about combat well I mean if it if it is a sport now now you're talking about something else you have regulations you have rules but when you're talking about fighting as it is with no rul real figh well then baby you better train every
part of your body and when you do punch now I'm leaning forward a little bit hoping not to hurt any camera angle I mean you got to put the whole hip into it and snap it and get all your energy in there and make this into a weapon I don't want to tangle you in any dark that right now you you came at me pretty fast there what is the difference between Chinese boxing and what we see these young men doing at 8:00 every morning on the rooftops in the Park's called Shadow Boxing which they're
always well actually you see that is part of Chinese boxing there are so many schools different everybody here seems to be you know going like this all the time well that's good I mean I mean I'm I'm very glad I'm very glad to see that because at least somebody is caring for their own body right I mean that's a good sign well it's a kind of a slow form of exercise which is called Tai I'm speaking Mandarin just now Kon K okay and uh it's more of an exercise for the elderly not so much for
the demonstration show me can you do it a little bit of it just I me hand wise it's very slow what is it and you push it out but all the time you are keeping the continuity going bending stretching everything you know suppose you know I mean you you just keep it moving look like a valley dancer there yeah it is I mean to to them you see the idea is running water never grow stale so you got to just keep on flowing of of all your students famous James Garner Steve McQueen Lee Marvin James
Coburn Roman palansky which was the best who who who adapted best to this Oriental form of exercise and defense well um depending okay now as a fighter Steve Steve McQueen now he is good in that department because that son of a gun got the toughness in him yeah I see it on the screen I mean he would say all right baby here I am man you know and he'll do it yeah now James Coburn is a peac loving man I met him right I mean you met him I mean he's really really nice I mean
Super mellow and all that I mean you know I mean now he appreciate the philosopical part of it therefore his understanding of it is deeper than Steve so it's really hard to say you see what saying now I see I mean I mean it's different so so that's I mean depending on what you what you see in it interesting that we don't in our world and haven't since the days of the Greeks who did combin philosophy and art with sport but quite clearly the Oriental attitude is that the three are facets of the same things
man listen you see really to me okay to me ultimately martial art means honestly expressing yourself now it is very difficult to do I mean it it is easy for me to put on a show and be cocky and be flooded with a cocky feeling and then feel like pretty cool or and all that or I can make all kinds of phony thing you see what I mean blinded by it or I can show you some really fancy movement but to express oneself honestly not not lying to oneself and to express myself honestly now that
my friend is very hard to do and you have to train you have to keep your reflexes so that when you want it it's there when you want to move you're moving and when you move you are determined to move not taking one inch not anything less than that if I want to punch I'm going to do it man and I'm going to do it you see so I mean so that is the type of thing you have to train yourself into it to become one with the you think yeah this is very un Western
this attitude I want to ask you about your movie and TV career but first uh we'll take a break then I'll be back with Bruce Lee I've been talking to Bruce Lee mainly about the Chinese martial arts which include things like Chinese boxing karate and Judo which is what he taught when he was in Hollywood after he left the University of Washington where he studied of all things philosophy if you can believe that he did but that perhaps you understand why he the two go together from the first half of this program and you can
perhaps understand how he got into films he knew a lot of actors but I'm told that you got the job on the Green Hornet where you played K the chauffeur mainly because you're the only Chinese looking guy who could pronounce the name of the leading character Brit Reed I meant that as a joke of course and it's a heck of a name man I mean every time I said it at that time I was super conscious I mean really now that's another interesting thing huh let's say if you learn to speak Chinese yeah and it's
very I mean it's not difficult to learn and speak the word the hard thing the difficult thing it's behind what is the meaning what brought on the expression and feelings behind those word like when I first arrived in the United States and I look at a Caucasian and I really would not know whether he was putting me on or is he really angry because because we have different way of reacting to see those are the difficult things you see it's almost as if You Came Upon a strange race where a smile didn't mean what it
does to us in fact a smile doesn't always mean the same does it of course not yeah I just thought of that tell me about the breig break when you played in Long Street I must tell the audience that that's it Bruce Lee had a bit part or a supporting role in in in the Long Street series and this had an enormous effect on the audience what was it well you see um the title of that EP that particular episode of Long Street is called The Way of the intercepting fist now I think the successful
ingredient in it was because I was being bruly yourself myself right and did that part just express myself like I say honestly express myself at that time and and I because of that I I I brought you know favorable mentioning in like New York time which says like the chinan uh who incidentally came off uh quite convincingly enough to earn himself a television series and so on and so on and so forth can you remember the lines by Sterling suant to the key lines he's one of my student you know that was he too we'
had everybody at your student but you read There were some lines that expressed your philosophy I don't know if you remember them or not oh I remember I said that's this is what it is okay you're talking to Long Street played by James franccesco I said empty your mind be formless shapeless like water now you put water into a cup it becomes the cup you put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle you put in a teapot it becomes the teapot now water can flow or it can crash be water my friend like that
you see see I get the idea I get the the power behind it so now uh two things have happened first there's a pretty good chance that you'll get a TV series in the States called The Warriors in which you use what the martial arts uh well in a western setting uh that was the original idea now Paramount you know I did Long Street for Paramount and Paramount wants me to be in a television series on the other hand Warner Brother wants me to be in another one one but both of them I think they
want me to be in a modernized type of a thing and they think that Western idea is out where I want you want to do the Western I want because you see I mean how else can you justifies all these punching and kicking and violence except in that period of the West I mean in the in nowaday I mean you don't go around on the street kicking people or punching people because if you do yeah that's it I mean I don't care how good you are you know but this is true also of the Chinese
dramas which you're mainly costume dramas they're all full of blood and gore over here oh you mean here yeah well unfor unfortunately you see uh uh I hope that the picture I am in would either explain why the violence was done whether right or wrong or what not but unfortunately pictures most of them here are done mainly just for the sake of violence you know what I mean like you know fighting for 30 minutes got stabbed 50 times I'm fascinated let me give you your microphone back I'm fascinated that you came back and I am
a maral artist you came back to Hong Kong on the verge of success in Hollywood and full of it and suddenly on the strength of one picture you become a superstar everybody knows you you have to take you have to change your phone number you get mobbed in the streets uh now what are you going to do are you going to are you going to be able to live in both worlds are you going to be a superstar here or one in the states or both well let me say this first of all uh uh
the word Superstar really turn me off and I'll tell you why because the word star man it's an illusion is something what the public call you you should look upon oneself as an actor man I mean you would be very pleased if somebody say hey man you are a super actor it is much better than you know Superstar you got to admit that you are a superstar you're not going to if you're going to give me the truth I am now I'm honestly saying this okay yes I have been very successful yeah okay but I
I mean I think the word star is is I mean I I do not look upon myself as a star I I really don't I mean believe me man when I say it I mean I'm not saying it because I what are you going to do let's get back to the question are you going to are you going to stay in Hong Kong and be famous are you going to go to the United States and be famous or you going to try and eat your cake and have it too I am going to do both
because you see I have already made up my mind that in the United States I think something about the Oriental the I mean the true Oriental should be shown Hollywood sure as heck hasn't you better believe it man I mean it's always that pigtail and bouncing around chop chop you know with the eyes sland and all that and I think that's very very out of is it true that you were the first job you had was being cast as Charlie Chan's number one boy number one son yeah no never made a movie no no no
no no no no they were going to make it into like a new Chinese James Bond type of a thing now that you know the old man Chan is dead Charlie is dead and his son is carrying on but they didn't do that no Batman came along you see because and then everything was started to be going into that you know that kind of which you're in but I mean by the way I did a really terrible job in that I have to say really you didn't like yourself I didn't see let me ask you
however about the the problems that you face as a Chinese hero in an American series have people come up in the industry and said well we don't know how the audience are going to take a non-american well such question has been raised in fact it is it is it is being discussed and that is why the warrior is probably is not going to be on I see you see because uh unfortunately uh such thing does exist in this world you see like I don't know certain part of the country right where like they think that
business why it's a risk and I don't blame them and I don't blame them I mean in the same way it's like in Hong Kong if a foreigner come and be and became a star if I were the uh uh the uh the M the man with the money I probably would have my own worry of whether or not the acceptance would be there but that's all right because if you if you honestly Express Yourself it doesn't matter I think because are you how about the other side of the coin is it possible that you
are I mean you're fairly hip and fairly Americanized are you too Western for orental audiences do you think oh man like how I have been yeah I have been criticized for that you have oh definitely uh well let me say this when I do the Chinese film I'll try my best not to be as American as I you know have been adjust to for the last 12 years in the states and but when I go back to the States it seems to be the other way around you know too exotic eh yeah man I mean
they're trying to get me to do too many things that are really for the sake of being exotic you do you understand what I'm trying to say oh sure so it's really I mean it's when you live in both worlds you there's it brings us problems as well as at advantages and you've got both time to go to a commercial I'll be back in a moment with Bruce Lee let me ask you whether the change in Attitude on the part of the Nixon Administration toward China has helped your chances of starring in an American TV
series well first of all this happened before that yeah but I do think that things of Chinese will be quite interesting for the next few years I mean not that I'm politically you know inclining toward anything you know that I just but I mean I mean once the opening of of of of China you know I mean that it will bring more understanding yeah more things that are hey like different you know and maybe in the contrast of comparison some new thing might grow so therefore I mean it's a very rich period to be in
I mean like if I were born let's say uh 40 years ago yeah if I have a thought in my mind I said boy I'm going to star in a movie or star in a television series in America well that might be a vague dream but I think right now maybe you still think of yourself Chinese or do you ever think of yourself as North American you you you know what I want to think of myself as a human being because I mean I don't want it sounds like you know as confusious say but under
the sky under the heaven man there is but one family it just so happened man that people are different okay we got to go thank you Bruce Lee for coming here thank you for watching thank you you've been watching Bruce Lee on the Pierre Burton show a half hour program of conversation opinion and debate this is Bernard Cowen speaking [Music]
