Parents Lose It After Realizing Their Son is the Killer

this Eerie footage of 98-year-old Margaret Douglas was taken just moments before she was murdered she went hard sleep I touched it was cold felt clamy that felt like star with me then it hit me was she still alive I don't oh my God that woman was 98 years old and it's my son the police in Wadsworth Ohio never could have expected Ed that their investigation into another local crime would lead them to the key to solving the mystery behind her death and the nightmarish things that were done to her body afterwards the deranged motive behind

the unthinkable crime would leave the offender's family as well as the police in shock the nightmare started when a man called the police to report that his car had been stolen much of what he reported was a lie but would still lead to a truth so disturbing it would stick with the invest tigators for the rest of their careers when police brought a 17-year-old Gavin Ramsey into the station on April 13th 2018 to talk about breaking curfew and the increase of crimes in his neighborhood they had no idea what they were getting into Gavin was

accompanied by his mother Chris and the police informed them both that he was not under arrest and could leave at any time some of the following footage has never been seen before Gavin does your mom know while you're here I think he said he climbed on top of the church yeah so there's got to be more to that story because I wouldn't be G down here and pick you up cool if that's what you did the police were already well acquainted with Gavin lately he appeared to have made a habit of going out at night

to get up to all manner of Mischief this time Gavin told a story about secretly meeting up with his friend Braden we weren't really doing anything then we went over the church and climbed on top and then we went like into the courtyard but that's all we did now you did more unfortunately you guys have left behind some very telling items okay if if we're going to get to the bottom let's let's just make it the truth all at once let's deal with it and get it done you're 17 yes you're you're a kid so

you're not looking at as much trouble the officer might come to regret this comment once she uncovers the full extent of Gavin's crimes for now all the police knew was that Gavin had been out after his curfew but that was barely scraping the surface since he was staying rather tight lipped they also attempted to get the story from his friend Braden your phone yes where do you think you left it that I had no idea what were you doing last night just out walking around I actually had I forget the officer's name but somebody stopped

me I talked to him for a little bit I got do looking for somebody who are you walking around with nobody there was a very good reason the police were out looking for someone they had no idea how close they'd come to catching their culprit that night they missing a lighter mm no would you be surprised if I told you that there was a lighter with your phone honestly yes okay Gavin and Braden had a problem in addition to the phone and lighter left at the church the police also had security footage of the boys

when Braden was confronted with this his story changed if you just want to be honest with me that would be great and if not I can just say that you said you were nowhere near and here's the video I mean okay um I appreciate I guess the straight upness I do honestly um I was out with a friend we were just messing around and uh I'm not exactly sure what church that is but we decided to get up on top of the roof and then um we dropped down to see if one of the doors

were open and then start a silent alarm not really silent we heard it we saw an officer walking from the church and then we ran from him so was that Gavin's green lighter then or your green linter that would be Gavin when he found out Braden was talking to police Gavin confirmed the story about the alarm this would be the first in a series of confessions he would make over the coming days I didn't even know what was going off cuz we were by the windows and they were already cracked open and like we were

just messing with them like they were honestly cracked open I'm not lying anymore this immediately raises the question of what else Gavin had lied about you think that would be enough to scare the bebies out of you and go home oh were you guys going to hide in the trailer no what did you do with the trailer I thought kind behind like a little SE and popped it out why were you guys going to go in there I don't know we honestly had nothing to do and me and BR together we know it's not good

but I don't know we're good friends this thing El according to Gavin's mother her son wasn't supposed to be hanging out with bradden this restriction didn't appear to have the intended effect but that would soon be inconsequential compared to what else Gavin had been up to you guys do anything else in the area no so you guys didn't go into any cars you know what it would make me feel a lot better now if it was just the two of you that went into the cars um yeah you know CU because of the other issue

in the area sure I didn't even know there was oh God yeah you guys didn't now would be the time to tell him okay cuz we did we processed the cars we did fingerprints and DNA he's been in trouble I assume you were with him at Central Intermediate School yes so your DNA is file as well so that's all going to come up if it's you guys for goodness sakes it's just rumaging through cars and nothing was even taken that they could tell we've had a lot of goings on in your neighborhood lately and probably

more than the general public is aware I'm sure I'm sure um more than one incident yeah so more than one incident so okay uh unfortunately um we're trying to see if you know they're all related right the most extreme recent crime in the area came to the attention of police just a week earlier when they received a troubling call which would kick off a case more disturbing than anyone could have anticipated at first they never imagined it was connected to Gavin's nighttime Mischief but would come to find that the cases were inextricable Roger police yes

this is Howard leiser my aunt lives on uh Page Street okay and a friend of ours stopped over there yesterday check on her and she was nowhere to be found we didn't know if you'd found anybody wandering no we don't have any reports of anybody wandering we can't find her in the house anywhere he went in the house and looked through the whole house good find her we don't know where she's at she's 98 years old and she live there by herself she lives there by herself yes what what's her name Margaret Douglas and she

never locks her house okay she doesn't drive she doesn't have a car and I checked with the what relatives I had phone numbers for and nobody's heard from her or picked her up so okay this was obviously worrying but Margaret's disappearance would only become more harrowing as the search got underway when the police were chatting with Gavin in the first of two interviews they attempted to uncover what else he might have gotten up to on recent nights I'm guessing this isn't the first time yet well no like we've snuck out in the past before but

since I've got in trouble this most recent one like without the law I haven't really snuck out at all when was this recent time that he got in trouble on he has not had any freedom at all I mean he literally goes to work and home probably three months because he makes bad choices and we're just don't we don't want that for our kids so he literally has no life at least that's what Chris thought she clearly had no idea just how busy her son had been police had unwittingly started the process of uncovering the

truth of Gavin's activities the previous week when talking to Margaret Douglas's nephew Howard desperate to find his aunt and willing to help in any way way could Howard and his wife Cindy went to the police station to answer questions so when was the last time you guys were there that was I'm thinking that was it was a Tuesday in uh March 27th I think it might have been anything that anybody said said off an alarm no no Margaret mil that's what it's so just hor she you sleep and so this past Sunday David call okay

David who had grown up next door to Margaret and her late husband was the couple's friend and caretaker the police would need to talk to him too sooner rather than later during Gavin's first interview things got progressively more disturbing as well but police could never have guessed that his tale would have become a fullblown horror story did you rumage through glove boxes or anything yeah and you didn't take not even change or anything maybe like 50 cents but I other than that seriously nothing what you do if someone did that to my car that so

upsetting and scary I I understand that but it's really their own fault for not locking yeah I don't lock m time every it's not the point it's not yours Gavin's crimes would only escalate from this point on the previous week with no idea that they were working on a connected case the police met with Margaret's friend David what he told them would prove to be invaluable though it was far from reassuring and I came up Sunday and uh 3 4:30 or 5 somewhere down there and there were three newspapers on the front porch so I

knocked the door and then open she never locked her door is it was it common knowledge that her front door was not locked I don't think so I know we never told anybody I wouldn't want anybody to know something like that you know David walked through every room in the house including the basement but couldn't find Margaret where she was ultimately found would sicken and outrage everyone who cared about her during the first conversation with Gavin which took place a week after Margaret's disappearance it became obvious that he'd been up to far worse things than

he initially let on we had a carjacking oh my God and suspect is a young white male with a nice complexion and blue eyes is that you no it's not me I I would know the first thing about jacking a car the proximity of the crimes was more than slightly suspicious and the police likely believed Gavin was still holding back they had unknowingly drawn closer to the heart of Gavin's Dark Secrets when Margaret's friend David recounted not being able to find her little did anyone know that this would be the leadup to a stomach churning

Discovery I called Howard her nephew to see if they came up they come up take a grocery shopping every two weeks like so see if they took a grocery shoing he said no they hadn't when Howard still couldn't reach Margaret the next morning he went to the house in person meanwhile David also called some of Margaret's other friends and neighbors but they hadn't heard from her either and this is all on Sunday yeah were you making those calls on your cell phone no I made it on her phone there on the her phone on the

Des it's U the phone oh the rotary phone yeah rotary phone okay yeah and I call on that you don't want to use that digital phone well it wasn't in the bracket okay the missing phone would also turn out to have shocking implications along with a few other seemingly innocuous observations made by Howard and his wife I knew we weren't able to find her wallet and check can you describe her wallet to me her wallet is red it's about um I would say rectangle I would say maybe 4 in in width do you remember the

location of the heater when you were there oh yeah it was right smack in front of the closet door okay and actually that thought hit my mind when I when they asked me to look for her coat and I went over there and I thought why didn't Margaret put that heater in front of the closet door the odd placement of the heater would come up again later perhaps the strangest thing was a jar of blackberry jam in Margaret's living room there would turn out to be a sick reason it was there but nobody knew that

yet Gavin's second interview however would eventually tell all after searching the house twice and finding no sign of Margaret Howard and Cindy to decided it was time to call the police when they arrived Howard helped them search the house yet again which is when the case took a turn during their first conversation with Gavin the police brought up the terrible results of that search there's no reason for me to flop anything up nope and I'm sure you guys know about the elderly woman that was tring to oh my God that was horrifying that was horrifying

it is horrifying did you know her all no other than just to see her out like on a porch I just that actually makes want to cry like how do you get to be 98 years old nobody lives to be 98 it's so rare and someone else thought that that was okay like how does that I don't know like why has your life been like that that's right Margaret lived just around the corner from Gavin tragically she'd been found deceased she'd been strangled and her body hidden inside her own home but the most horrifying facts

of what was done to her body after death were not yet known the answer of who was twisted enough to commit such a crime would hit far closer to home than anyone anticipated and then i' get all scared I'm like oh my God I have all my porch pight on out I I I have stranger danger issues the irony of Chris's stranger danger issues would not be lost for long I I can't imagine you doing something like that I just interacting with you this little bit I can't imagine that's in your wheelhouse but there was

so much about Gavin that nobody knew including his capacity for unspeakable cruelty ask did you get put in a b situation somebody put you in the bad situation no G let's at it this way honesty is always what's best it's I'm not holding anything back like you've already gotten yourself in trouble so I know I even I don't know it's that is there more because you know it all com out it's not that there's anything more it's what the dude you kids what happens in the dark comes out in the light that's the way it

works you mess up you get caught you make bad choices you're GNA pay for it so if there's something else let's get it all out on the table so that we know what we're dealing with not anything else it's I don't know I'm I'm mad at myself I'm so mad at myself what are you so mad at yourself I was 16 there had like 5 and now I'm going to be in more trouble I have to go back to court and I'm done with it I'm so done with it you I'm costing them thousands of

dollars constant a heartbreak I honestly probably never made either of the bro I don't I don't do anything good stop cing you didn't take anybody's car have you ever used an app called grinder no how you feel about gay people I'm not gay oh that's okay but they don't bother you no nobody bothers me okay this might seem like a strange line of questioning but there's a very good reason the detective is asking this question it likely evoked a feeling of dread for Gavin as it means that the police know far more than they've been

letting on earlier the police kept trying to determine what could have motivated someone to kill Margaret in such an atrocious manner so she you guys didn't argue she wasn't upset about anything and you can't think of anybody that would want to hurt her when it would G the detective once again pushed harder for answers from Gavin leading him to make an unexpected request there something else you need to tell us It's upsetting you so much the detective clearly hit on something honestly can you two actually leave for a second what's that can you actually leave

so I can yeah knowing what had happened to Margaret Gavin's mother was likely terrified of what her son didn't want to say in front of her as it turns out she had good reason to be concerned Gavin was also unable to hide his emotions in the interrogation room but this didn't stop him from giving the detective at least one of the answers she wanted wanted finally addressing the previous question about meeting up with someone from grinder but this was only one of the many secrets she would convince Gavin to [Music] Spill the car it okay

it was me I'm going to be honest about it but the way that he explained it that guy that's not right that grinder thing yeah have been on and this guy was like the first time that that's happened and I told him like I was 1 and everything and I wasn't planning on doing anything with him it's not my style I was just like he's a 40-year old man trying to get with a 17y old so I was just going to rob him it's like it's still messed up but against what he's doing I don't

really think it is and the whole carjacking thing I didn't I never even left Overlook I literally like I got in and he's like what should we go to the back seat I'm like yeah sure so he got out I S locked the doors and popped in the driver's seat and just drove around messed with him and then I left he have his wallet no no that's cuz I kept asking him like I cracked the window of the car like like cuz he walked up doors were locked and everything I'm like where's your wallet and

he's like I don't have it so then you know I open this club box and all that and I'm like well show me your pockets and he's like I don't have it but can not it my thumb I'm like no and then I turned and he like tried to grab the window and like break in and then I just I gassed it and he walked and that's when he left Overlook and I went up to like where the dumpsters are you know where that white van is yeah and that's where Gavin added that he threw

the man's phone out the window shortly before he abandoned the car then blocked the man on grinder believe it or not all of this would be connected to Margaret's death in the coming days I don't even have the act delet after that night I I didn't want to say that for are you gay no that's not it like I didn't have any plans to doing what was he thinking was going to happen I mean was there an act that you guys agreed upon not really no just like NSA I didn't even know what that meant

but it means no strings attached did he touch you at all did you touch him at all no why were you on that app really just for that reason to find guys that are that low of people I guess that want to get with kids mhm like it's karma really like if you're going to do that then I'm going to rob you the carjacking would be completely overshadowed by what else Gavin had done the police got a hint of the madness to come while searching Margaret's home though they couldn't have imagined the nightmare they had

uncovered you didn't hurt that old lady did you no and that's what I was piss really is what were we pissed about because there actually people do video girl and that's like I just said some dark stuff everything anything and like I don't know people know like I'm a dark person I guess but like I'm not going to go kill somebody it's not like that but people like oh like you killed her didn't you I really feel like you did I'm like no I didn't so people are saying that yeah that's it's making me really

mad it really is there's no reason that we would find your DNA inside her house because we swab the hell out of that house you shouldn't okay what do you think should happen to somebody that does that that kill someone kills a 98y old woman yeah I don't know I think ier and ey is the best way to go that's how I look at things I mean if it makes you feel better I will give them your name and let them know your DNA is on file and they can rule you out okay when we

get a DNA profile that would that help you I mean what for like the lady I mean that does mean Braden's DNA was also on record and would be compared to the crime scene Howard Cindy and David all agreed to provide the police with DNA samples and fingerprints so they could be ruled out as Suspects sure your M skin out there freaking out yeah she probably thinks I'm confessing to murder she's been in here so long just 3 days later this remark would be cast in a chilling new light where would you even hear about

an app like that why would you even do that I don't know like I said Mom I don't know why I do anything that I do that sounds all vigilante crazy to me that's what that sounds like so that will get fored also and then God only knows what that charge is going to look like you see how all these horrible things kind of tie together and you start to get pretty worried about what's happening especially with the escalation of yeah so you know if there's something else or somebody else that you know is out

there doing stupid crap yeah can keep it on the down low I will your name won't cross my lips but I need to get to the bottom of what happened in this PO woman while Gavin assured the detective that he told her everything the bulk of his Secrets had not yet been spilled unaware of what her son had done Chris permitted the police to search Gavin's phone with that they left the police department when it came to the phone the investigators were mainly looking for anything about the carjacking instead they found something completely unexpected it

was awful enough that two detectives rushed to the ramsy house to place him under arrest take note that he was made aware of his Miranda rights as soon as he was seated in the police car when you had your mom leave the room the other day were you going to tell me this no this is the car jacking I thought about it but I didn't know what to do did you know I'd be coming to see you after we got your phone I fig as soon as I heard the knock on the door I honestly

I if my boots would I think I would when the detective ushered Gavin into the video recorded interrogation room his distress was obvious I'll be right back in okay [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] you sure I can't get you a drink [Applause] [Music] I know telling me about it doesn't give you much relief Stu Chang in the fact that I ruined my life and we can't go back and change it at this point we just have to figure out what's going on with you okay and you didn't take anything from the house like I said before

it doesn't make a difference either way I mean what other crime can I commit that would really matter at this point [Music] [Music] breather mind I'm not worried about once Gavin was uncuffed the detective set about filling in the specifics of the gruesome yet patchy tale Gavin shared on the drive to the station the truth was about to come out once and for all but each detail would make it more horrific than anyone could have imagined did you go house initially just to steal something just honestly all I did was I wanted the adrenaline R

just going house something think that's why I broke the C so because is that risk factor and all I've ever done is take risk because that's the only thing that makes me that your drug adrenaline yeah like I know I think are me when I have adrenaline it's like all right you feel alive like there's meaning to you right know about meaning but you understand like you feel like it feels different like like I don't know how to explain any bad stuff inside you goes away I guess this tied back to something unsettling Gavin had

said in the car on the way to the police station the adrenal is the only thing that makes me feel like I'm even alive like when you met up with the guy with the car with that adrenaline Gavin continued his story and he revealed that his meeting with the man from grinder hadn't gone quite like he previously said and there was some physical stuff that went on between the two of you in the car right yeah first time officially I guess stuff happened when I was younger it wasn't voluntary for me he weren't sure like

when you got there it's kind of like there's the plan things just start happening yeah know kind freak me out a little bit what freaked you out your reaction to it or him I don't know just once I realized I was in the back of a car with some guy just crazy yeah didn't want to it anymore had you met anybody on grer before I had yeah before your whole attention of in the house was just the adrenaline being in somebody's house yeah the house just the sneaky thrill of can I get house and get

out and get away with it yeah but if the door was locked I would have just walked away the whole breaking into the house that was the adrenaline part I think I didn't even have a grip on reality whenever I did that you can probably guess whose house Gavin an as terrifying as this was what he did next was truly mindboggling I didn't know whose house it was at first until you saw her you knew she knew you had you talked to her before I know we discussed this a couple times but just do to

like when I was 13 or 14 going to shule jack and stuff you know when I was actually doing something good and nobody was with you this night and he's not told anybody about this no nobody knows about this was it dark when you went inside the house no lights on another none at all one there was the lamp were you in her house for a little while before you woke her up I mean I like I came up front of the porch and I didn't even know what I was going to do and I

looked in the window and everything I don't know I felt like going into a house is like the biggest adrenaline rush I could get like guess so then I Tred the door not minute that just happened to be unlocked was it the front door or back door the back door well she is already asleep whenever I went in because when I came around the corner that's what I saw her and it scared me CU I didn't expect to see someone right there so I didn't hear anything so I came in like I open the door

I just listened I didn't hear anything so maybe nobody's home and then I go to walk around that corner like I'm still going slow but I see her and she's I don't know like sleeping or something and then I go to turn around and hit the chair it made a noise and she woke up and she started to scream at that point you said yeah because like when I hit the chair I like turned back around and I looked and she was there staring at me and start the yell went for the phone what it

looked like that you trying to get phone away she could call did you not g away or that you guys buy with the phone like a little bit so fight I think I think I threw it under the couch I'm not really sure by the time I even realized what I was doing it was too late to stop anything and when you realize that's when you on the on top of her with your hands on her and stuff that's when okay Gavin showed the police an injury on his hand where Margaret's Nails dug into his

arm he had other scrapes on his hands but claimed these were unrelated Margaret never stood a chance in the fight against Gavin which likely made her final moments even more horrendous so when she died was she on the couch or on the floor floor were you on top of her then kind of like stradling her yeah and you use one hand or both both did you squeeze it or push her against the floor or both both you said you don't remember if she was bleeding at that point only reason I can think of bleeding is

when I put my hand over her mouth you were when you were holding your hand over mouth you might have pushed too hard and maybe made her nose bleed yeah the detectives knew Gavin had skipped over several particularly nauseating details but those would eventually come out too so how long do you think you were in the house before you woke her up I don't know probably like 10 15 minutes and then from the time he woke her up to the time you ended up on top of her choking her how long did that whole part

take probably like 5 minutes espcially like fighting back then trying to struggle and then you guys went down yeah I think on way down when got ripped but you don't remember ripping her panties Margaret's underwear was not just torn but completely ripped from her body her bloody night gown and bra were pushed up around her upper body fearing the implications crime scene investigators swabbed all of Margaret's clothing her body and the items in the closet the results would once again emphasize how reprehensible this crime was did she say anything to you one that's was happening

did you say anything to her no it is it happened quick the level of indignity Margaret's body was subjected to was further emphasized in the detective's conversation with Margaret's nephew Howard and how many times did you guys go into the closet I went in twice when we first got there I for saying I day was open the closet but I had to move that heater from in front of the door it's never there can you tell me how it was positioned in front of the door it was flat against the door where all I had

do is put my fingers under underneath the top lip and I lift it up and set it out of the way first time I looked then I wanted to make sure put it back the way it was so I moved the P Howard said his wife Cindy also moved the heater twice to look in the closet for Margaret's coat to see if she might have left however the coat was found in the closet the it wasn't on the hanger where it belonged Howard's second Fay into the closet was life altering that's when I noticed the

PO Shue so I tried to pick it up I couldn't pick it up I'm thinking what's holding the shoe so why I grab another piece of clothing and go it back and seeing I've never seen this before in my life okay white you know and I touched it was cold felt clamy but felt like star on to me so I moved it you all right give y so I'm moved another piece of clothing and that's why I to go down like this and I felt it upper part of the leg and it felt the same

way I'm think why she's got thoam in here what is it then it hit me don't it take you a minute to realize that it was her in there yes it did Margaret's other shoe was also found in the closet carelessly thrown on top of her along with other items from the closet it appeared that Gavin had pulled items down at random in an effort to conceal the body including a sweater and a vacuum cleaner that's when basically we left the house [Applause] yeah I've never seen I'm sure you guys do all the time but

I never yeah it's now it's something you get used to it no matter how many times you see it and it to me it didn't look like Clash or yet that's what just took you a minute to realize what it was oh yeah then I oh god well she didn't get in there herself I know she wasn't going to heat her by herself for covering herself up I know that when Margaret's body was removed from the closet police made the skin crawling discovery that she'd been laying on top of her torn underwear how long did

you stay there before you put her in the class that was probably like 30 minutes I just kind of sat there and I didn't know like what was going on like I was still in shock and then I checked my phone and it said it was like four something and I knew my mom had to get up at 54 so then you made the decision then did you look around for another place to put her or was that just the first place you came along I gu just the first place considering my time limit and

then you drug her by her feet you said to the closet what part of her body did you put in there first I think it was her head in first did you um close the closet door did you put that heater in front of the door yeah the closet where Margaret's body was found was only about 2 and 3/4 feet wide by 1 and 3/4 ft deep in order to make her body fit Gavin contorted and shoved her into the space face down with her knees bent and arms folded and you didn't take her wallet

nobody cares about the 60 or 0 there I did but it's gone trash also which trash at my house the trash was long gone by this point but that didn't turn out to be an issue police once again involved Gavin's parents who had followed the arrest team to the police station to help them with their investigation okayy honey listen um this is gonna be a weird request I need you to take your brothers and take them out of the house right now I we'll explain later maybe go to Uncle David's and just hang there and

we'll call you when you can come home no everything's not all right Z but don't tell your brothers right now once Gavin's three brothers were out of the house the police carried out a search warrant their efforts were not in vain tucked away in the back of a dresser drawer with Gavin's jeans the police located Margaret's missing red wallet Gavin confessed he'd spent all the cash on cigarettes but Margaret's cards were all accounted for however the wallet wasn't the only item of Interest the night you were out at Margaret had you drank or sooped anything

done any drugs that night not bad I was actually sober that night which is another reason why why I smoke weat and I drink because I can't handle myself so I can't like comprehend I don't even know the words to use my thoughts when I'm sober are dark when I'm high they're like good thoughts have you ever thought about harming anybody before or taking someone not like planning it out like oh I'm so mad I can go kill someone right now like that kind of thing would you never imagine yourself actually doing it no I

could never Vision myself Gavin shared with the police that he had struggled with the urge to take his own life he refrained he said for the sake of his mother who would have been heartbroken I mean I've wondered what killing somebody would feel like but I've also wondered what jumping off the building would feel like so it's not like anything about this was premeditated during their search police came across a journal in his bedroom that would prove that once again Gavin was not sharing the whole truth the journal began with two research projects on the

serial killers Donald Henry Gaskin and Ted Bundy after this the entries transitioned to ideas for skits and short films chilling like in each one Gavin played the role of a killer the victim in almost every story was to be played by Braden as Skin crawling as this was the entries containing Gavin's personal thoughts were by far the most disturbing in one Gavin wrote I want to know what's wrong with me sometimes I just want to go off on someone and beat them until they're not breathing anymore it's not even for attention or anything I honestly

want to take someone's life in another entry he wrote I don't feel empathy or sympathy for anybody like I just don't give it you never told your counselor about any of the thoughts they have a l and she didn't she started with TR to treat the depression first that's I don't know if this fix because it doesn't feel like it's some regular emotion this feels like it's natural and I don't want it to be I don't anything be seix yeah Gavin had been in counseling on and off for years and was diagnosed with ADHD and

depression another entry Gavin made in his journal highlighted his depravity he wrote I think of Counseling doesn't help I'm honestly going to kill someone I'll probably take a girl out to the woods and her and kill her I wouldn't feel bad about it but I know it's wrong we might never know exactly how much Gavin told his counselor but he appears to have been very upfront with his coworker Haley Haley shared a Snapchat conversation with police in which Gavin told her flat out quote I watched one of those videos on YouTube and I laughed and

I'm pretty sure I could kill someone in Cold Blood and not feel guilty or sad or anything chillingly when police spoke with Haley she told them that she had no problem believing the Despicable thing things Gavin had done to Margaret but police still hadn't uncovered the full story so what did you do with your gloves when you left I away where at in the trash can in home at homez there's a glove there could you have dropped one there was a glove there I guess I did drop yeah said the gloves just happened to be

with him from when he cleaned the bathroom at home several days earlier however it wasn't the presence of the gloves that police were most interested in there was something far more disturbing that they had discovered there was purple stuff on it what was the purple stuff that was on there I get it that there's a whole piece of this that you don't understand why you do okay I understand the whole piece that you don't understand did the purple stuff have to do with the whole piece that you don't understand why you do no Pur St

was that jelly I don't even know where that came into play at did you maybe use it like kind of as a lubricant for something is it a part you don't understand or a part just embarrassing in your own mind you know I mean in your own mind because it's okay none of this okay not saying we understand if it's an embarrassing our kids you're not sure we understand that part you know I mean it's okay that we we understand it that way something understand gu but you put the jelly on the glove is that

when you use her hand to rub your yeah this vile postmortem assault was the nauseating reason the blackberry jam was found in the living room testing on the jar revealed the presence of male DNA though it could not be matched specifically to Gavin similar testing revealed Margaret's DNA on the outside of the gloves and Gavin on the inside along with evidence of sperm male DNA was also found on her ripped underwear and still the horror continued and is at the same time that you were taking some of those pictures yeah after I took those pictures

like what that's when the shots fit in yeah it's like what am I doing yet Gavin still continued taking pictures in addition to taking photographs of Margaret while she slept unaware of the danger he also documented the Revol in process of violating her dead body now there's a couple of videos of you kind of peeking over the edge of the couch and videotaping her when was that all done that was on the same night why why did I lie about anything that was stupid like I turned the corner and didn't see her head yeah when

I H I like you know taking my phone I was taking pictures to see if she was awake I then she saw you you stood up she saw you all of the photos and videos of Margaret were discovered in a hidden app on Gavin's phone labeled dark it was password protected with the word murder as if that wasn't enough something else police found on Gavin's phone only solidified the case against him the day Margaret body was found Chris ramsy sent a text to her son alerting him of the police presence in their neighborhood which said

they're looking for someone Gavin's casual reply of well that's Wadsworth for you was undercut by the fact that he then immediately looked up Margaret Douglas dead and Margaret Douglas Wadsworth Ohio he deleted the search history but forensic technicians were able to recover the information damning Lee at the time of Gavin's search Margaret's death had not yet been publicized there was only one horrible way he could have known why the police were there and what had happened did you mean to to hurt Mar like that no please note that at this point the male detective stepped

out for a moment leaving Gavin alone with the female detective are you sorry this happened yeah I'm really sorry that I did all of this were you sorry about all of this before you got caught yeah like I I constantly like I think about it a lot and I I feel like bad about what I did like I I don't like I feel bad I know it's wrong but I can't express the emotion once again Gavin's Journal suggested a far more wicked truth he wrote I don't care that I feel the way I do but

I need counseling before I completely go off the deep end and do something that literally ruins my life I wouldn't feel bad if I killed someone but I don't want to sit in prison she was here alive in front of you what would you say to her I'm sorry it never that was never meant to happen if I could take it back I would there's a subtle upward inflection when Gavin says I'm sorry his monotonous and emotionless tone is a stark contrast from earlier it appears he can cry for himself but not others still Gavin

seemed to find something else far more troubling than the life he took I think if my dad sees me he's going to go freaking jail because unfortunately this going to affect everybody yeah I know it willin our family name Gavin's parents waited in the lobby of the police station for the duration of their son's interrogation to say they were distraught when the police broke the news that their son was a killer would be an understatement all the phone contained images of Margaret before and after her death as well as videos of your son with her

um engaging with her was she still alive was doing there no I don't oh my God this isn't happening this isn't real I want you to know spoke to the director of the Jal Detention Facility I explained his situation explained that he was highly emotional distraught I asked okay I've asked him to take you know to to keep 24/7 observation okay I know this is an emotionally devastating situation it's it's a horrible set of circumstances you deserve to know he will be tried as an adult oh my God oh my she 98 years old just

living out her days my son this I'm mother all these people out here and it's my son does Gavin understand to prison incidentally Gavin was wondering the same thing what do you think's even going to happen with me I think you're going to go to attention you're going to do some time in jail how long do you think I don't know I just don't know guys I'll be honest this Saturday like just 5 days from now M I was gone I was leaving you're have cuz the only reason I didn't yesterday cuz I knew my

mom just took out my money for my insurance and I knew my insurance it's doubled so I'd like no money well gav I'm glad it's going to stop here I'm glad this didn't go any further cuz I don't know that you would have been able to change on your own no it wouldn't and I I don't know I had a pretty clear picture of what the next year looks like if I ran unfortunately I think he would have hurt more people was that in your plan I mean it wasn't in my plan but I could

see that happening on January 18th 2019 Gavin was convicted of aggravated murder aggravated burglary kidnapping and abuse of a corpse he was given a life sentence for murder along with 10 years each for burglary and kidnapping and an additional year for kidnapping to be served consecutively originally he was meant to serve life in prison without the possibility of parole but changing legislation for minors who were tried as adults renders Gavin eligible for release after 25 years in 2043