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quite interesting me L please for on yoube welcome to program on critical minerals unlocking a low carbon future look if we want to transition to a low carbon economy it's vital that a supply of critical minerals lithium Cobalt manganese nickel graphite just the name a few that all of this is available as speed stock to facilitate the manufacturing of batteries for Ev use complementing wind and solar through storage related facilities and if we don't have those critical minerals we don't have the batteries and uh in the United States we have uh you have we have

lithium in Nevada uh we get a lot of it from China and we're also mindful of what's in the southern cone of South America what's in Mexico and how important it is to get some of those feed stocks to the US and to other parts of of of the world um so I think on behalf of alland tonight it gives me great pleasure um to introduce this wonderful program and to welcome you all to this uh great program so I wanted to say thank you for coming um I know there's going to be a wide

variety of speakers coming here some of them are not here yet uh but when they arrive they'll be introduced and uh but uh it gives me great pleasure in introducing now raphaela GIS and uh who can take it from here uh for for this wonderful program good listening yeah so good morning ladies and gentlemen it's um it's really pleasure to be here today I would like to start by thanking um our hosts um that hman kite also Verano that um is within s and helped this bring this bridge together also is Columbia Wilson Center our

our partners so thank you and thank you for the distinguished audience for being with us here today I know it has been crazy to arrive um and that's why we're starting a few minutes late so to today in the morning while deciding how should I do like this opening remarks um and having my my dose of caffeine I was thinking should I start by remembering the planetary crisis the hottest days that we have um seen happen record history this year the the record setting floods that are happening the Raging fir fire wild wild fires and

of course the the forest fires in Brazil or should I also remember that we are way behind what we pledged within the SGS um but but then I said it's it's bad to start this way and let's try to be a bit more optimistic and um understand that this is a transition that we know that we are lagging behind but there's a lot to be done and that uh critical and strategical minerals or better said like the minerals that will be necessary for the transition um is is important to pave that way to unlock unleash

them and but above all how do we do this in a sustainable way in a way that includes Society includes the communities and brings together development and prosperity so um it is a huge Challenge and that's what our our panel is about today we and it's a multi-dimensional challenge um we we we must acknowledge that in the past we have it has been linked to environmental degradation to greenhouse gas emissions to geopolitical tensions and a lot of instability um not to mention that um we have and everybody that is in this room works or or

really understands um what we are mentioning in terms of the the the importance and at the same time the challenges and we can mention all kinds of risks that that BMP together with the the critical minals so that said what we really um want to do here today is to bring this different perspectives and with that I will start by presenting leion Oran which is head of the United Nations environmental program at the New York office and for those who hasn't read I did my homework I read it recently the this incredible report that brings

some important principles that should be taken into consideration when um dealing and evolving in in the exploration of these minerals SOA please or is yours morning and um thank you for inviting me Rafel thank you for SE night for hosting us it's really is a pleasure to be here and it's a pleasure because this topic is such an important topic given the climate transition climate change and concerns with it and the energy that we going to speak to um I would like to to put certain ideas in front of you and we may agree with

them or not but I just felt that given that this is a international relations Institute and you are all private sector people involved with this it's a good opportunity to also engage uh your minds in issues which Rafel has already started talking about so Global landscape of criticals in the context of decarbonization scenarios is one of scale and urgency and also concentrated Supply resources are not concentrated but the current Supply is concentrated and that's what makes a difference according to Thea the de compensation scenarios to achieve a 1.5 degree goal will involve a growth in

demand which will almost triple by 2030 and P by4 the demand to grow over 40 times for lium 20 to 25 times for graphite for b nickel and more than double for C this will involve many new mines by 2025 over those in 2022 estimates include 180 new copper mines 17 new Li mines 70 new Nal mines and 30 newes by 2035 that's within 10 years from now so imagine what this means in terms of the precious Investments to the local environment to people and their lives in Mineral R countries of which Brazil is one

and yet this is what we require for the 1.5 degree is important the concentrate Supply the urgency and scale for the transition and and is resulting in geopolitical comp loal tensions and Trust deficits resources and minerals have often been reasons for why Nations have fought Wars this is not new so the conflicts and competitions have been happening over the years if we just look through history these conflicts are also evident within countries between states and non-state actors and with local communities so the trust deficit actually goes down at various levels the critical minerals to address

climate change a common existential threat provides us with an opportunity and an imperative to do things differently with an opportunity to change The Narrative of minerals for wealth creation through Ms of extraction P trade Wars possible resource competition conflict to A Narrative of goods that serves a public purpose of unlocking a low carbon future but importantly through more collaborative paths what makes these paths more desirable and warranted is the urgency and scale of this demand but it's this urgency and scale that also shouts out for justice and Equity to be Wen into the paths that

we want to follow in order to address the existential thre mineral should be seen as a way to bring us together for a common low future because we have a common thre that we seek to address climate change and not to compete over these minerals for a competitive low carbon F the term common has a lot of normative content suggesting a moral imperative linked to benefit sharing Shar concerns and equal CLS the term future has embedded in it Notions of intergenerational sharing that what is done today as implications for tomorrow and therefore needs to be

done in a fair and just manner so unlocking this potential of criticals for common low carbon and just future requires us to engage with some of the asymmetries and assumptions that underly the current Global landscape we really need to go beyond the number G matching the demand and Supply but really see what's below that so first issue of demand energy while the demand and Investments has for the Energy Mix has been rising for renewable energy how much how much of it is going to meet the needs of affluent clean energy Transitions and how much to

address energy problem this is important to keep in mind because otherwise we exponentially increasing the demand of fores just to meet this exponential growth in renewable energy but where is it going where how is it being distributed according to the latest tracking s 7 reports 660 million people will still lack access to electricity in 2035 85% in subsaharan Africa 1.8 billion people will la access to clean cooking six in 10 people from subsaharan Africa while the flow of investment to support the energy transition has increased significantly and we're very very happy with that it's geographically

skewed South Saharan Africa receives less than 1.5% of the amount invested globally between 20 and 2020 in terms of f cap investment in Renewable Energy Technologies in 2021 Irena reported that USA and Europe receive 57 and 41 times more Investments than subsaharan Africa inequality of energy consumption and investment is really clear and this is important because this defines the demand secondly countries in the LDC and LDC ldcs LDC that's a low and least developed country group landlock group rich in critical energy transitionals often do not benefit from the value addition and local development from their

mdal wealth very often it is just extracted and goes straight to other countries how is this creating wealth domestically how is this creating that infrastructure that we need to use this asset in a way that will help build this up thirdly the issue of urgent and scaled Supply of minerals in order to address climate change involves very clear conundrum and something that unep is very much concerned with 84% of Platinum Resources 70% of cobalt resources are located in high risk PSG contexts while 65% of the resources are located in environments of medium to very high

water risk of particular concerns are also the rights of indigenous peoples in several of these countries because many of their lives are where these minerals have allocated so while addressing one environmental crisis which is climate change are we creating other environmental local crises are we creating a burden are we creating human rights infringements this is really important for us to consider not just consider a rush to address the the mineral demand that we see this leads me to put forward to this very great Gathering here some questions which I hope you will engage with one

can the critical energy transitional mineral wealth in countries attract Investments not only into minerals development for Supply but also into renewable energy infrastructure which addresses the energy poverty can we use that leverage can the flows of investment and finance inds development be aligned with more responsible mining characterized by longer term thinking and a vision of shared intergenerational prosperity and responsibility can this financing go beyond securing mineral Supply but more importantly to establish a wider systems change to support green industrial policies local skills and Supply chains and diversify economic activities at a sub regional and local

level we need to tamper with the scale of Minal demand for a rebalancing of consumption and investments in energy from those who overuse and waste to those need so that we are as Rafel mentioned in the beginning you know addressing the planetary crisis that we face can this rebalancing happen through material and energy and Mobility efficiency secularity to sufficiency can we Design provisioning Systems to deliver human needs to using less energy and materials this is what the international resource panel and weab here who is the co-chair of the panel who's been advocating for this and

I'm sure she'll talk to it and value created from minerals through secularity and value retention models to the entire value chain also benefit the original owners of the through anties or other economic instruments that they can use so that they don't lose out from the value that's created through secularity across the M value chain ladies and gentlemen it's in this context the UN Secretary General set up a panel of experts nominated by government's industry and Civil Society on 26th April 2024 on political energy transition Brazil was also represented there as the UN Secretary General said

at that time a world powered by rebles is a world hungry for critical minerals for developing countries critical minerals are a crucial critical opportunity to create jobs diversify economies and dramatically boost revenues only if they managed strong the race n zero cannot trample over the poor the Renewables Revolution is happening but be must guided towards Justice and afford this panel published their all submitted their report and been published on 11th of September which is just last week it proposes seven voluntary guiding principles and I just read them out to you I won't go into the

details but we have copies of those if you would like to or you can access them on the website one human rights must be at the Cor all mineral value chains two the Integrity of the planet its environment and biodiversity must be safe guarded Justice and Equity must underpin mineral value chains development must be fostered through benefit sharing value addition and economic diversification investment finance and trade must be responsible and fair transparency accountability and anti-corruption measures are necessary to ensure good governance lastly multilateral and international cooperation must underpin both Glo Global action and promote peace

and security friends to deliver on these principles and recommendations we need Collective action and public private Partnerships that serve a common public purpose of transitioning to low carbon economies a more peaceful future and greater Justice and equity in the world I thank you thank you so much elizabe and um I forgot to mention in the when I started that to to be able to do this and create different kinds of Supply we at se hopefully starting this year and Isabella will be leading this work we will be um looking closely to Brazil and how can

Brazil help with different forms of Supply to meet this demand that will grow and do this in a different in a in a way that really respects the sustainable development goals and helps to bring prosperity to society in Brad so with that and within this crazy week we were tense that um is Christopher is Christopher being able to arrive and he has just arrived so we have Christoph mlade head of energy Supply at the International Energy agency which is also a huge and important part um of the the energy transition so please first of the

floor is yours and I will gently ask you if you could put like the mic because we have several people listening to us online so thank you very much thank you very much and it's a it's a real pleasure to to be here and and to speak with you on behalf of the International Energy agency the the issue of critical minerals is one that we have been looking at at the Ia for a number of years now um and really trying to shine a spotlight on the the opportunities that exist but also the potential blocks

that there could be on the energy transition as a result of the availability of critical minerals we have seen in uh the past 12 to 18 months that the price of many of the cre key critical minerals have come down quite substantially we saw for example a 75% uh reduction in the price of lithium um Cobalt nickel graphite they've all Fallen quite substantially from the re from the highs that we saw back in 2021 and 2022 and we should really focus on why we've seen such large price declines this is going to have a very

large impact on companies and on countries that want to produce critical minerals and we wanted to look at understand the reasons why because there is a little bit of a misconception out there that this was because demand is starting to falter that the clean energy economy is starting to slow down it's not moving as fast as what people have thought and this is not correct actually the clean energy economy today is moving even faster than most people really properly appreciate and the reductions in prices that we've seen for many of the critical minerals is because

actually supply has been coming on very very strongly we've seen new Investments being made we've in lithium in Cobalt and graphite and Supply growth from many many different countries from countries in Africa Indonesia China this has led to us an overhang in infantries in many parts of the world in the context of clean energy development um clearly this has I said this has been accelerating very very strongly we have seen huge increases in solar PV deployment around the world in wind but also over the past number of years the amount of the batteries that have

been deployed have been doubling every single year so they doubled from 2021 to 2022 and then from 2022 to 2023 and they're likely to double again this year and batteries are one of the key areas where critical minerals really play such an important role and the momentum behind clean energy deployment remains incredibly robust and so demand for critical minerals is also very robust we see for example when we look at individual minerals total demand for lithium is going to increase by almost a factor of 10 over the next 15 years because of its indispensable role

in batteries graphite is a close follower with a five-fold increase um and the demand for nickel cob bolt and Rare Earth elements are all going to double over the next 15 years and this suggests what while today we see that markets are relatively well supplied it may not be a very good Guide to the Future and we need to have a more medium and long-term future to understand where this these markets are going so we at the IIA have carried out a very detailed analysis to understand the POS situation that exists for many of the

minerals and we see a mixed picture we see when we look at all of the projects that have been announced around the world that are either under construction or at an advanced stage we see that for copper and lithium in particular there is a very large gap that is emerging between Supply based on announced projects and where demand Trends appear to be taking us given this huge increase that we're seeing in solar PV and in batteries so for example if we if we assume that all mins that are currently announced come online and given our

existing project and that's a very big that all of those will come about that would still only meet about 70% of the copper requirements that we have over the over the next 10 years so this 30% Gap is a very very large gap when we are thinking about how important copper is for the future of the energy transition the lithium actually the situation is even worse only about 50% of the potential demand that we see coming through would be covered with existing projects when we look at nickel and we look at Cobalt things are slightly

better if all of those projects come through markers would be tight but they wouldn't be uh quite so bad graphite rare elements are in a a better situation when they're unlikely to face major Supply volume issues of course when we have these gaps that are emerging this doesn't mean that the energy transition is going to get derailed it doesn't mean that the energy transition is going to stop happening but it does highlight where there could be some roadblocks in the way ahead we need to see more projects coming through for sure um in in all

of those those Four Element areas and copper lithium nickel and Cobalt but we also need more policies on the demand side we need to governments to pay much more attention to the importance of recycling for example everything that you can recycle will avoid some potential um Supply that would need to come online and also Pro promoting more material efficiency measures using those rare elements in a more efficient way is a very productive mechanism to reduce uh that that Gap that exists the situation on the supply side well I mentioned it's good in some places and

not so good in others one area where we do see there being very big risks and this is always a conversation that emerges when talking about critical minerals is the geographic concentration that exists for critical Minerals today there is no way around it that China owns a huge amount the overwhelming majority of the processing and refining capacities that exist for need all of the critical mineral um minerals that um are needed for the energy transition and actually that Geographic concentration of processing and refining is set to get worse going forward we have seen a number

of countries putting in great in place great policies to try to diversify their supply chains we see for example in the US the inflation reduction act has a real emphasis put on developing Supply chains for clean energy Technologies um at gentically we are seeing similar things being undertaken by the European Union but when it comes to critical minerals we don't see that these things are making a huge difference on the the situation for for refining and for processing and of course it's also the situation that mining operations are naturally quite uh geographically concentrated and it's

unlikely to be any major change in that situation going forwards so for example about three quarters of the announced projects that I I mentioned for lithium for nickel for Cobalt for rare elements three quarters of those projects are in the producers that already are the largest producers today so when all the projects or the vast majority of the projects are being developed where we already have um the the largest amount of of production clearly things are going to become even more concentrated going forwards in all projections of the future the IA doesn't have a single

view of the future we have a number of different scenarios that could play out play out depending on whether you believe that governments will achieve the targets they set themselves on CLE energy whether we will undertake the the changes that are necessary to align with 1.5 degrees under all of these scenarios the increasing demand for critical minerals means that there will be a substantial growth in the market value of those minerals going forwards in fact we estimate that the market value of minerals will more than double in scenarios which are aligned with our climate objectives

so for example if all countries who have made Net Zero pledges were to achieve that whether that's Net Zero in the European Union in 2050 in the same in the US China has a net zero Target for 2060 India has one for 2070 if all of those um policies are achieved in full and on time we would see that the market value for critical minerals would grow to about $350 billion by 2040 if we were instead to align all of our objectives around the world with 1.5 degrees which is the ultimate goal of the Paris

agreement that market value would go up to $800 billion by 2040 and so that's a huge opportunity that exists whether that's for producers in Latin America in in Africa and Indonesia they're all going to see potentially very large Market values to 2040 given the expansions that it would be in Copper mining in Latin America and in Africa but also for example due to lithium increases in lithium and uh in Cobalt for Africa I mentioned briefly the importance of of recycling and this is an area that the I is going to be putting more and more

emphasis on going forwards because of that Gap that exists between um supply and demand going forwards if you look at recycling rates over the past decade they have more or less remained stable for critical minerals they haven't really moved despite an increasing amount of attention that governments have been putting on the issue but we need those to increase and in many cases actually to double over the next 10 years if we are to close the gap that that exists there is a huge amount of potential investment into new Supply projects that would be avoided if

we get that doubling in recycling rates going forward and the final topic that I want to play um finish on which is a very important one when it comes to to to Miners and and uh to critical mineral production is on environmental social and governance um indicators because it's important to ensure that new supplies that come online don't come at the cost to local communities or to the environment the picture that there has been on ESG goals in the past um number of years has been very very mixed we have seen the industry making progress

in some areas such as work safety on gender balance Community investment and the use of of renewable energy to power facilities but we've actually seen backward steps a number of areas when it comes to emissions and water consumption when it comes to waste generation unfortunately the industry is doing worse than it today than it has done in the past and this is this is a big worry when it comes to critical minerals because if we don't have robust ESG Frameworks in place and we don't have uh comp these following those ESG Frameworks there is a

real risk for critical minerals and there is a real risk for the overall energy transition of course this is a very complex issue businesses with high ESG awareness in their operations um can make progress in some areas but they can struggle to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions due to the declining quality of resources for example but it's an area that needs much more attention going forwards if we are to get on track for the overall energy transitions that that that is required I'm going to finish there but just to to Really flag that this this

is an area that I re I think has been underplayed in the overall importance of the energy transition as I said at the start the clean energy transition is occurring it's occurring very very quickly much much quicker than most people are aware around the world but one of the issues that we hear being mentioned by policy makers more and more increasingly in the past 12 months is the issues that are are with Supply chains and with the geographic concentration of critical minerals so this is a very important conversation to to understand the state of play

today but there are huge opportunities that exist for producers for countries for companies that can get their act together that can can make the Investments that are required because the size of the priz as I said is absolutely huge I'll finish there thank you br s the was it being Brazilians and then I asked if CH would mind joining us also in this first panel to dynamize so with that I will call to the to the panel so um Isabella T these are prti and SE he's in the middle yes [Music] um Emily olon our

chief executive Chief sustainability and corporate Affair officer at valid based metal kristofh I'll call you again so kristofh mlade head of energy Supply at International Energy agency and Andre CL Senor VP Latin America at s energy and I'll be the moderator resource efficient this is resource efficiency we have heard um from Lees um opening remarks and also Christof um the huge opportunity but the hugest challenges we have in place um and we we tried to bring in the first panel you'll see this in the second uh a bond of the important people that are dealing

with these challenges from different perspectives and with that I think that something that was present in the beginning was the huge political challenge of what we have in stake the concentration of Supply how this is impacting prices the lack of uh specific um look towards um the scgs and how these minerals are being extracted human rights all these all the issues so with that Isabella uh the floor is yours for to setting the stage in terms of the politic the politics uh yeah good morning are you sure okay uh let's see thank you very much

all Leia for coming okay I think this is really important momentum for us in Brazil consider not only philanthropy but also private sector and it's very important for me personally that nation is closer must be Clos okay um I try to be so I try to be provocative I don't like to be this as you know but um I think that we need to discuss uh Min transitional minerals mineral transition in different ways it's true I I like to to play with this but let's um discuss the contest that you have today and of course

as Legion mentioned you have the debate yesterday I was Ro Business Council St effect is directly and the the protocol awareness clarity mute yes thank you um And discussing this yesterday with my head of international s spanel uh so it's very important to come and to understand what's happened today with the exection of natural resource in the world the trajectory of the last 56 years and how complex is the situation for the future you don't have the availability of natural resource to deal with the demands that's why circularity is absolutely critical issue meaning to redefine

business model around the world so for private sector and also for the governments is very very important that can understand which kind of public Poli which kind of limits of public Poli you have to have to promote ambition to decarbonization considered shortterm and long-term perspective perspective and this means to come into something very interesting about cost and price okay how much the market or how the markets we prepare to pay for this and we know that when you go into this solutions concerning climate change we demand additional energy we demand additional materials it means additional

costs and this means additional price so it's very important nobody discuss this this perspective because it's like you need to reach Solutions or to have Solutions but not necessarily discussing the financial and economic situation to move the pieces considering the shortterm perspective that's why the cost the political cost when you go to discuss phasing out of fil fuels or transitional ways is so complex okay and also considering mining sector now I jump into mining sector I can share the numbers of international s man if can I can recommend to read the global resource Outlook our

Flagship is really a good big picture what's happening today in the last 15 years and also uh the scenarios for uh 2016 and how critical situation is when they going to the global footprint meaning the developing count footprint and now since this Century the merging economies so this is really really important and why I mention this because I mentioned is because we need to understand that probably if we go to tackle climate change that this is my personal comment okay this unofficial comment is that um we need probably to add Solutions considering the critical disas

will come around 30 or 40 countries they are the critical ones that must change and to have 196 countries that pairs agreement numbers but what is very interesting when you compare some countries hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey check it's CHP probably I'll check Alexa come on did not like that it's okay so what's happening go so we have I don't know what's happen the ghost but what I'm saying is that when going to discuss the ambition to cut emissions and also to discuss uh how en security is not energy transition we

are back discussing security okay that's why transitional way it's really a complex issue we are back discussing food security that's why fertilizers in mind sector that's important we are back discussing really uh how go to trans transation to solve to promote solution transportation and again mining is crial min he hey two make sure think that do techology talking right here what is this okay can try difficult no it's going to be yeah you have to let's try to see what again so back when I say that when go into climate change probably have four countries

that would be very important to go to ndcs and I'm not sure if the NBCS that rge from C they will be financeable okay and uh and this is very important to observe because this means the climate change will overlap with development finance and this is the the issue that matters we are discussing development as and as isia highlighted also you can have human rights and civil rights as part of this equation and this is very important for our debate because when you go into was happening with the microphone so now I'm just trying to

make sure this goes well my next session I pray my next well I need to rewind okay back okay that's again okay let's see so going climate change talking about in finable not financeable but what's very important in this case is two issue to have mining sector on board we cannot address any security we cannot address food security we cannot go into City solution Transportation without M and this is this is a really good question how my seor will come is will play as a bridge builder all a change maker and why because we need

Innovation technolog Technologies and also we need to understand the geopolitical game geopolitics is part of this new region because not promote Solutions blocking countries like China okay and this is very very interesting because this means that climate change is part of the global new geopolitics Arrangement geopolitical Arrangement that's emerging and this is part of the the discussion about the new international order that United Nations is also part of this we cannot go in global Solutions without multilateral systems but we need to refrain multilateral system and to understand the new balance of political force or geopolitical

force and this is based also in technological innovation this is a critical issue you cannot do this you cannot have this mic you cannot have this is without minerals it's as simple as that okay and absolutely important that you can understand when you have this 40 countries that very important to that missions to go ination to other things not necessarily the countries that have today uh mining sites mineral sites they are part of the sport the set of 4 so have a new way to approach power in the world go to European countries they don't

have critical strategic sites of CRI commun it's a new Dynamic of international uh operation or International interest and also for me personally additional issue to the lack of trust and transpar and this is very important because we have some reaction from some European countries for example is green protectionism some Supply chains blocking international trade and not able to pay for this it's impressive how they establish some norms and standards without recognize the cost and the new prices so again they adding uh the lack of trust and credibility and also and not mentioned here the additional

demands minerals on go to Wars and the weapons and the renewal of weapons new world that's happening today they check it so easy to check okay so my opinion when we going into the debate and trying to be provocative here is that we cannot discuss this new momentum of the decarbon decarbonization and also Supply chains and energy quality or even including food security without understanding the Dynamics of the newal and this means the climate CH politics must come we are discussing not more climate policies we're discussing climate politics I'm sorry we're discussing not more biodiverse

we discussing nature politics and this means that you cannot go into developing World Andrea and the US coo a very important guy and consider this Global Dynamic we cannot go into develop country with the same approach that they used to have in the past it's not a new extractivism it's not a new explor ation of Society come on come on the debate is EV and unfortunately you don't have the political RS to discuss this and that's why I think the private sector has the responsibility to understand which are what are the new issues and how

to combine to connect the Dos if you want to have ative political and economic narrative to manage from 1.2 to probably three to be back to5 so this other point we are discussed with negotiating today not as we used to discuss in the past no let's think about 1.5 in by the end of the century No it's not true it's happening now so we need to discuss transition and D transition considering climate emergency and this is also new this is also new and we have really some challenges when you go to discuss uh these issues

and my last Point here is only to conclude is that we need to understand the the governance the climate that's why climate governance is so important and based on my experience and also I'm not convinced that the environment the minister of environment have the conven power to manage this agenda nationally regionally or glob alone they are part of the equation but we demand a new mindset political mindset economic mindset to con social mindsets to convince people to be part of the transition if you want to have a transformation transition doesn't means that we to postpone

things but we need to understand how we go facing down and phasing up and which are the criteria to phasing up solution it's not clear what you want to how you want to manage mining sector phasing up solution okay still discuss incentives sub based on the past okay so we need an alignment between mining sector any sector and also land us SL agriculture sector really understand the opportunities and the tradeoffs if you want to play better in shortterm perspectives and prob increase the social network in National re social network that can service in the National

re that's why I felt how cannot me we can promote better use of trade off strength to increase the cost increase social prot because have the tradeoffs and they have adaptator as part of equation so please don't believe in carbon dreams okay we need to work a lot I don't like I don't believe in lwh hand fruits this is good from but part of my reality we need to work hard to make sure that development American Eon could connect the dots in Innovative way and coming with the developed countries and also vunerable countries around the

world with a new understanding about our CH our challeng in we still are discussing B on the past even the conditions that to negotiate climate change the geopolitical on the economical ones the social ones everything is over in it's our responsibility as same thanks and also private sector to propose something fresh I invite you to be disruptive to propose really something trash and to be smart enough to understand that you need to move from now probably the next 10 years to understand what transition means and Brazil is a country that must improve its governance if

you want to be part of the future if not we're a good example of the past thank very much a real C to action before passing to Andrea and to Emily because we'll have like different Nar um important adaps here in terms of the technological innovation challenges and the major challenges industry speak I'd like to just ask you Chris if you want to sum up Isabella has mentioned a lot of complexities within diversifying Finance in bringing the the right mechanisms in place and that the history of what we have been doing will not lead us

to the the the future so if you would like to build upon that certainly thank you very much and and Isabella made a number of of very very important points there and there's a couple of Reflections as as she was speaking first of all it is absolutely the case that we are seeing today that geopolitics and trade measures are making the energy transition more challenging in many many respects um and whenever we we looking at trade measures for example um we have seen tariffs we we seeing um protection measures there are reasons for the that

these things are happening there is the whenever we look at the clean energy economy that is emerging many many countries want to have a a piece of that clean energy economy as it is coming through you know there is there is a car manufacturing from solar panel manufacturing to food the traditional fuels there are many many opportunities here that that that exist and countries quite naturally want to make sure that they can capture a piece of the clean energy economy as it is emerging it is absolutely the case of course though that um if trade

measures are not welld designed they could really slow down the energy transition transition going forward one thing that that I think is very important to recognize will be where we are seeing the change some of the changes occurring if we look at the the where a lot of the oil and gas resources are today a lot of the cold resources many of those countries that hold those also are very well endowed when it comes to renewable energy for sure many of them are very very sunny they're very very windy they have great hdro resources they

have great bioenergy resources also they many of them have excellent critical mineral resources and diversifying away from transition of traditional fields from oil and gas extraction or from coal extraction into the new clean energy economy is the real opportunity and you're absolutely right that for critical minerals you know they can only be mined in certain places and those countries really have an opportunity here what we need to see is action from The Producers themselves to make that leap from from traditional fuels to the to the nuclear energy economy but also that will only happen if

consuming countries help them to make that transition we know for example that for many countries that are very heavily dependent upon oil and gas revenues today they will not be able to make a transition away from oil and gas revenues to the clean energy economy unless they receive support from consuming countries and this can take a number of different um factors finances of course will that often comes um comes up very very often but also in terms of te technology in terms of innovation and support technical support on the ground to help those economies make

the most of the natural resources that they have it's only with that kind of then working together much more collaboratively are we going to see the transition um emerging at the pace that is required another thing that consuming countries have to do is be much clearer on the direction of travel we we often hear when people talk about um addressing climate change or addressing um sustainable development goals we often see that there is a big gap between the ambition the long-term targets and the actual reality on the ground and many people today are saying that

you know it's not going to be possible to limit temperature rise to 1.5 degrees and No One Believes the the consuming countries when they say they will want to achieve net zero emissions consuming countries need to be much firmer whenever they are talking about their their climate goals when they're talking about their transition goals so that consuming so that producer economies get the right Market signals and again that applies both to traditional fuels and also to critical mineral mining that so that those those uh companies so that the countries have the security to make the

Investments that are required and another very important aspect that that you mentioned and I'll finish on this point is on the transition that would need to absolutely needs to occur within a managing market and developing economies themselves those that hold many of the of the key critical minerals when we look at the numbers today um we have seen a huge increase in overall clean energy investment over the past 10 years if we look 10 years ago just just put a few firm numbers in this 10 years ago total investment into energy was about $2 trillion

around the world one trillion of that was fossil fuels and 1 trillion was clean when we look at the numbers for this year overall investment will be about $3 trillion fossil fuels are still about 1 trillion clean energy has gone to about 2 trillion so we've doubled globally clean energy investment over the past 10 years that's very very good news and and hopefully that momentum can continue but one thing we need to recognize is that the vast majority of clean energy investment today is occurring in advanced economies and in China in fact 85% of overall

clean energy investment is in advanced economies and in China so 15% remainder there is occurring in countries that are responsible well sorry that that have about 2third of the world's population there is a huge disparity there that exists between where C energy investment is happening and where the vast majority of people live and so what that means is that we need to overcome many of those financial barriers that exist to boostle energy investments in those emerging market and developing economies that absolutely is is related to boosting investment into reducing the emissions intensity of their own

energy sectors um deploying solar deploying wind deploying other low emission Technologies on hydrogen on on electric cars all of the different options that exists but also in terms of boosting investment there into critical mineral mining because that is where we see again some of the big gaps that exist if we keep overall investment at that 15% we are not going to have Global energy transition and we're certainly not going to have the the new technologies the new minerals that are required in if for for the entire world to um to change at the pace that's

needed I'll finish so thank you um Andrea you have been and I've been a testimony of that very Enthusiast of Latin America and all the expansions in terms of investment in energy and in technological innovations and really booming up like demand so from your perspective um could you bring us some light in terms of what's needed with technological innovations that will come along and and and demand for these new energy how do you see this thank you thank you well I usually say that uh I speak U from the perspective of the kitchen of the

of the energy uh of the energy transition because we cook and deliver uh the uh equipment the networks the uh the large machines that we that that the world needs so we're a global company that do that basically very large Mach trans so so the first thing uh so basically really two idea the machines that we need for the um for renewable energy are far more resour intens than the old machine uh a gas fired uh turbine that lasts usually for 100 years uh basically is a very large piece of metal that spins um for

a long time when you transition into solar or into wind which are more less on half of the size of this room first of all the Mach last at best 10 years uh the solar panels that we're seeing being deployed everywhere will last 10 years maybe less because of the technology ramp up all all that garbage will go somewhere we will begin to see a struggle on what to where to put them this is where um this is where the resource planning and the circular economy needs to be debated in a much more serious way

today the see is unmentionable but that's number one so it is the idea of food supply chains which are much more uh resource intensive than the past that was not enough the grid behind it uh uh whole large transmission uh Power transmission system will will grow three four po uh I IA has been um um helping the world on on on trying to forecast the GD expansion very bad I would say the g for in this country by three time it used to be in the US a system where you would transport molecules burn the

molecules near the consumption to now transport elect for that you need a lot of R that's a huge machine of basically a very special steel surrounded by copper in long lines made by copper or aluminum so that's a lot that well so the first impact of energy transition is a huge press on resources which are in our view completely underestimated it is not about the price anymore it is not about the price it is about the volatility of the price 100% of our contracts when body buys a machine of hours the price change of the

um materials uh now who Bears is the client or the investor or the financier we're pushing those risks to somebody because we cannot afford them this is the volatility of the materials is now an issue it's not even the price anymore it is an inflationary uh response today not because of the price because actually some of the prices are going down in the short run it is the risk that we're embedding on the on the volatility of the price of this minerals that we are putting in the contracts that we have hand and that adds

a lot of cost China uh in every single um technology uh particularly the new technologies of renewable try of plays a dramatic so yes I will pick one Which Europeans and our company loves is the off everybody love it's beautiful and everything else 96% of everything that goes on there is Chinese it is the most uh expensive renewable energy done by um rich countries and everything else you see the dependency there it's a lot of protectionism go it's a lot of um uh geopolitics and trains that you need to be very very careful without them

we canot survive and here again about the the value chain the Chinese did one thing really really reite they design the supply chains in in its entirety from the mining to the processing the use of Technology they dominate the whole Spectrum all the way into to be I do not believe that talking only about mining we do mining companies incurr the mistake of uh trying to keep to keep keep themselves in minding because soive it is aake uh there there will be no solution without looking at the entire strategy that is called industrial policy the

biggest industrial policy in the planet today is called Energy transition and it the biggest benef factor is China they've been planning this for overage and they did really really well the problem is there are risks it is okay however it's not enough the other aspect so first aspect is the food supply chain how it impacts inflationary and risk management of new projects and and and of course uh circularity is uh very very important the second is responsible mining it is a challenge everywhere Brazil is the place of the two most relevant mining accidents in the

history of mining still there burning us most of the mining processes will are occurring in the places not only because they are developing countries and they prile economies but where climate change hits the most like Brazil climate change the thing that we're living now we are already living 1.5 degrees scenario hits disproportionately tropicales in comparison to others the whole mining process uh play will occur in these places where we we have huge dislocation of population due to Drought or organized crime or whatever horror that the energy transition will bring we see governments preparing for that

Indonesia will not export ni to China has protess received a lot of criticism are they right are they wrong they fighting with they have children we all right and so on and so on local content will be there uh local content will be there to handle that that situ that's also inflation those are my my my two Points Technology green hydrogen who who's excited about green hen we're doing our exercise if we see we're we're a very large producer of electrolyzers electrolyzers turn energy into and water into hydrogen if we were successful Ella we would

use half of the idium reserves of the planet I think something is wrong right idium occurs together with Platinum most of it is is the production there no I love finally processing and and I'm sure I'm sure you will talk about this processing these special minerals is an immense environmental challenge it's by no chance that 70 80% is now in China we have a l environmental licensing of processing uh rules and regulations nobody wants that thing in its own country we need to be much better at processing those minerals because it's horrible uh environmental impact

thank you um hopefully there will be no interference while we speaking but told me that um it's a problem with the channel but it hopefully it will be out Emily we we left you like the hardest speech I think that Isabella brought a lot of the geopolitical climate GE politics involved and had Christ explaining here the the risks and and the complexity of Finance the the problems with the ups and downs in prices and under brought some um very important um points relative to to this technology and and and all the the supply chain um

risks involved and also how do we Bond and that's the the big thing like from a company the biggest one one of the biggest if not the biggest in the world how do we can we make this different in terms of providing the minerals and and bonding this with sustainability um and avoiding most of this risk that we mentioned hopefully no inter interruptions just like so you know I think we've we've covered a lot of grounds I'm G to try to to pick up on on various points as we go and so I think the

one thing I I bring in is set context is that you know I've spent majority nearly 25 years years in public policy and the extractives business um and a good friend of mine Dan Juran had made a comment not too long long ago setting the context here is that the last 100 years our energy economy has been one of addition right we've added now we've entered a place where it is really a transition we haven't done this before you know we f and we built on and now we're here and so this is one of

those all hands on deck um moments right we're we're here you know on the eve of cop um but also building up into cop 30 in Brazil really thinking about our role in that transition this is fundamentally different than what we have had to do before and the price is higher right and so when we talk about the geopolitics you know again you my my in my career has always found be managing the geopolitics and policies um of you various both developed and emerging economies and policy is a critical enabler when you're at a point

in in new transition and change you we we have to have partnership with government Civil Society you know that the private sector can't do it by itself governments can't do it by itself and we've reached a point in this journey on our climate Journey where we have to stop being linear we need to be multi-dimensional and we need to be bringing the multi-stakeholders together and so you know often in the mining sector and PR to mining I was in oil and gas so I've been down this road um it can't be a zero sum gain

anymore we have to be willing to find the commonalities and find and chart pass to solution right and so I often find myself saying okay what's the pragmatic Middle where can we all come because it's about pace and it's about progress and if we find ourselves stuck debating for too long we lose time and we lose progress and so thinking about what everyone has said you is you're right but the debate is different right again we're not adding we're transitioning and that means something fundamentally different in how we look at our role collectively in that

Journey um you know I'm often asked about what are the challenges for for mining companies let's look at it there's challenges but there's also opportunities so if we only come in looking at challenges we don't make progress you we need to think of them as you um supporting one one another um and thinking about really how we look at these challenges for a mining company um you I I work in the base Metals part of Al so looking after our copper nickel Cobalt all of our critical minerals that you really are the Cornerstone to making

this transition a reality but like you said Andre it's not just minerals it can't be side Lo approach any longer right and we have to have the tensions we have to have the difficult conversations right it's what it's what makes progress happen um and so looking at critical minerals from a your policy perspective for the sector and like I said I spent almost 25 years in public policy and and when was the last time we talked about mining policy you know I I was just in Washington not too long ago getting a a similar talk

I spent the first 10 years of my career in Washington as a public policy I can't recall a single time we had meaningful integrated conversations of critical funeral policy right so again it's it's time to lean in and make that change and equally when we look at both the global North the global South the the developing emerging economies um how can policy talk to one another right sorry M you guys hear me I'm AOW talker to that might help um but but how policies but really uring policy start speaking to one another you have C

we have the IRA you know Ira being a huge Catalyst of the conversations we're having today um but equally you how we look at the raw materials act how we look at the Indonesian export policies right we operate in Indonesia I know these challenges well but really setting a stage in the context for critical mineral development so companies can really think about that longterm plan right so mining is generational you know we operate in in decades not days and so thinking about how we're setting ourselves up for that long-term future and what are those challenges

right we've talked about the geopolitical tensions we talked about you know how we need to have access to finance and I agree fully Kristoff on your point you know as we look at our growth we're all very familiar with the supply demand curves right now you know demand is increasing Supply is not and you and that has many many facets to it it's access to financing you know trying to find public private Partnerships that move at a faster Pace you know it's it's everything to technology and Innovation I look at Brazil for instance in the

mining sector Val is is blessed to have you know great access to Renewable Power um including our operations in Canada including our operations in Indonesia right right it 93% of our portfolio is is renewable energy so how do we tackle the next seven right and those are the hard to evate costly high high cost projects and so trying to tackle those in Partnership these are the questions and the challenges I think that face all of us particularly on the the base Metals the critical mineral side but um I include my my colleagues in iron or

right high quality iron ore is essential to Green steel right so we can't charity pick we need to really think about this holistically and how we we move forward so when I reflect a little on you know my position and looking at the base metal strategy and future right there's a few things I think apply globally into what we're doing here we've tackled a lot today so I won't try to go too far into them but you know well I think you spot on governance you know being very clear on the governance you know I

see this in Indonesia as well you know when when Western countries or the global North in general this is a piece of people I get frequent when you know the finger is pointed and said you have to do this there has to be a recognition in that governance Journey that we're all starting in different places right and how do we get to that place but equally when we think about governance what are we asking developing countries emerging EC iies to achieve we're not clear we're not clear on those standards they're seeking what we're holding them

to account to right and being clear and back your point you you using the institutions we have multilateral institutions we have to really create a little bit more clarity for you the developing South on what we're asking you to deliver I think this is a real challenge in making inroads into improving you know speak to the ESG standards right you what I think and what you think and you think might might be different that we're not setting a clear stage for that Journey we struggle to make that progress equally you know we can't always hold

perfect you know it's it's the journey how are we making progress those in the you I would further say the developing countries I mean you you my American Canadian hat on right there's progress to be made there right you know we have not reached the these these big places and so again for me and from looking from a company sector it really is that partnership and that integrative dialogue and how we collectively do that I can have a road map but it's really important for me to understand your Ro map and how we're coming at

these problems together you know and I think about what we do in base Metals you you know I'll think about Brazil Brazil has an abundance of mineral resources um they have an abundance of beautiful biodiversity right incredible communities that are in and around Minds sites how are you factoring that all in from the start and so I was on a p earlier today and I was talking more about you how do you look at you are we enhancing our ambition and enabling our action right and I think from a corporate perspective there's a few things

I bring to T I think there's one there's tactics right and I think we mining really needs to come and and demonstrate our commitment the proof is in our action right that's what you measure us against you we do what we say we're going to do and I think looking at how we've taken a step back and looking at our own mind development you growth is huge you know there are big pipelines that you not just for Vol for manying companies on delivering this Supply that needs to come to Market how are you integrating it

from the start how are you creating the business imperative that people you understand that building decarbonization very start you two years before you put anything into the ground how are you building those and integrating those pieces from the start and I'm not talking just decarbonization technology plays a vastly important role social impact Environmental Management we have to stop looking at ESG as decarbonization it's a holistic package and when I go to meet with investors and you when I get questioned by governments don't don't look at my progress solely on the fact that I've been able

to decarbonize some of my assets the low hanging fruit right it's it's how is that Collective picture how am I creating Mutual benefit how am I co-developing projects that I know are coming right we can't do it the old way you know we have this opportunity to reset and restart and think differently and that means having more equity and more conversations more dialogue about what that means for others right and I think it's a fantastic opportunity and not a challenge often people ask me they frame that as a challenge to me it's not I think

it's a fantastic opportunity that if I would have put my oil my oil and gas hat on 10 years ago that would have been a fantastic way to start being able to have that constructive dialogue being able to build those building blocks into how you mine how you think about mining but also you know in my experience in Canada you I really hold True to this my own life um I I'm new to Canada been in Canada about a year and I've met many of the First Nations country and the first question to me is

when you think about mind development how do you think about well-being and I think Seven Generations so when you think about how you're building these assets you keep that in mind my participation your particip right so creating that culture of mutual benefit and co- development right um but but equally we have to get to the tactics again it's financing you know what we need to create policy you need to create that you Partnerships with financial institutions governments um cilos right but mining needs access to sustain you because we're back to the conversation on Pace andness

it allows us to pace and make progress and far to long we've done everyone sector as a whole it's linear we're going to do this to get here we don't have time to do that anymore we really need to be a multitasker as a mother I I can't not but be a multitasker um and again back to A's point about supply chain stop being linear we need to be integrating thinking across that whole value chain you know from line to motor we're talking what does that look like but also setting up the regulatory Frameworks to

enable those things right I think across the world you know critical mineral policy in this the way we're thinking about it is nent you know we really need to think about how we're constructing those policies to to be useful and guide post for one those next generational um developments need to be and so clear regulatory Frameworks and stability that's what mining companies need when we think about our investment access sustainable financing Capital allocation is very important to our shareholders but equally it is fundamental to how we build our our work plans around decarbonization growth sustainability

in general um and then looking at that environmental footprint right you we talked about Indonesia we we've talked about Brazil is it is our core licensed operate if you are not focused on Environmental Management and building in biodiversity and nature plans looking at your water management and affluence you know this is just good business and it is something that uh we shouldn't be asked to do it's something we do do and you know and I think I look at you know I'll personal here I look at vol um and in the base Metals business and

I think we an extraordinary job particularly on water um and how we look at it you look at Indonesia and the work that has been done um on in Indonesia one of most incredibly proud of the Water Management in our operations in Indonesia please come to Indonesia as well um Brazil it's amazing how we've been able to manage the environment and the water um challenges there but again these are all things that we need to factor factor in and you know I'll wrap it up with saying this cannot be a private sector problem it has

to be a multistakeholder challenge that we address together because it is simply too big and and too new and so if we're not willing to be comfortable with those tensions and talk about those tensions and find those Solutions there can be great critical mineral policy out there but it doesn't evolve it doesn't move the conversation forward and if you use cop as that driver you that is absolutely something we need to really take into out and I'm a firm believer firm believer and I I say this not lightly cross- sectoral Partnerships nontraditional Partnerships the people

you never thought would get along or have a conversation that's where we we need to bring the different tents together we need to create that path forward and you I truly believe we can move at peace and deliver low carbon sustainable quality mining we have to do so much to really um we've already we already in lack of time but I just wanted to frame some things here that we've heard the law so the importance of the the political policy in place and and how governments are going to come together Stop The Silo conversation we

need to be to have and move forward with a global mining policy um sustainable finance will need to come in place and of course the private investment is not going to come along with all this instability so how does government come along and multi multi-stakeholders U to bond this together the cross seal conversation which I do believe is important in all segments I've seen this in the oil and gas business and definitely in mind it's important the environmental and the social footprint with that a round of applauses to this panel and to the audience yes

G is here add my last comment because to summarize simple sentence let's get power and let's ground this okay please a picture of the the panel and we'll move to the second one I'll present the second one front I think here yes that can only be in the middle one two three and great thank you em I work a lot so hopefully the ghost is out and with that I like to call for the second panel which we will continue some important discussions here around the sustainable development of this important supply chain future Trends and

governance so Tom um I won't be able to pronounce your surname correctly but uh research schooler for the center on global energy policy and a associate professor at Columbia University Danielle Abdul Director of Business Development at Sigma lithium um Bruno Pell Global mining technical service director at Valley tapate McDonald um at Holland Holland canide and Lisa saak saak director of Columbia Center of sustainable investment oh you're here where's Lisa oh you're here so thank you very much and me again as a moderator you so during our first panel we we heard a lot about the

challenges the technology the necessity of with Supply um I'll invert here the some of the orders actually I'll start with Tom um from from Tom from your perspectives um what does it take to ensure the sustainable supply chain after this first panel lots of thoughts came along but I'm definitely sure you have a lot to add on that right um thank you very does the mic does up and [Music] down um yes what does it take to sort of guarantee the sustainability of the supply chain in in seven minutes um let me start by saying

I think for any sort of sustainability compe first finding what sustainability is and having that sort of regulatory certainty and the subsequent and I think we're missing both it sounds very basic to say we need to what suain what we need sustainability is a red line that we consider something that we consider more priority than other days and I don't think we're having that conversation because yet we have great standards that are coming up obviously we have is it is it better thank you the is coming up in the next three weeks public so that's

good right now problem what do we about apparently not not having enough um good the second part I think is then to move to actual implementation sustainability we currently having two big Anns the first one is as we've been hearing in the first session as well we need new projects and there is currently not that invest I was in meeting yesterday regulator saying yes we see all those mer acquisition that very good news because that means that we will have strong companies to invest in new projects that will uh basically do more responsible person I

think acquisition have to avoid um and I think the Min in the room will I hope not not fully disagree with with that um most of major miners over 70% of their earnings are actually coming still from Co and I not and transitioning into future uh sort of forward looking minerals and Supply chains is not something done very Ry it's a bearish market there kind capacity some of those minerals you're stuck with that simple conundrum that actually asking mind to do things better with more investment but the same time you have AAR Market have not

yet enough to say we are going to fav your supply your responsible Supply right and if that doesn't come um quite frankly I I can't see that implementation those standards of that sustainability move as quick as we all hear would because let L to the second which is do our consumers of critical Min currently might respons reference it's not requirement scale that we would need to really transition into responsible right um final Consumers Electric vehicles are not looking at that yet OMS are not really heavily favoring responsible mining yet so you come down to basically

um we need regulations we need governance to facilitate that that upate Tim comes to the off if you don't have a guaranteed update you're not going to get the financing for creating more responsible Supply chains uh and vice versa if you don't have financing you're actually not going to secure the off that's the classic chicken again that curring Supply CH and it seems that we're not getting out of that chicken game so you need the regulator to to inter my final point then is on what do we what do we need right now right what

what could we sort of look at and and um experiment with on the policy side and on financing side let me start with that financing part um it was nice to hear Em Say maybe we need sort of conversations with you know people that actually we don't have we don't we don't have conversations we yet right um one aspect that you can think about with respect to um financing is the bonds or other last classes that haven't been Ted to haven't been Ted into well actually says we need to be looking at the M BR

for better ESG performance of of mining what we see historically and my colleague J here as well and I just comment yesterday very much and actually show that not used that much by why is that what be done to maybe improve that on the regulatory side of things I think there's now a very clear obsession with China right the good news is that sort of an obsession with diversifying your supply chain away through China and having more compliance performance mining there's over V diagram has big Center uh and and that's good news um you can

think about things like stock piling floor price mechanisms all those things are being discussed in Washington DC in Brussels to certain examp well there's not a lot of detail to how this would look like right and I would argue that there's also a lot of risks with this type of um policies but there is also a role there for more responsible Supply same thing for market and subsidy access some of the conversations that we are having again trade agreements AR crial minerals basically yes how can we Define those trade agreements with very strong environmental and

social standards right okay now we're having a conversation right now we're looking into icmm and what type of Standards there might matter most could integrate in a very specific political minerals agreement if you wish um with third countries and this is the type of stuff that matters that's how you can actually favor certain with more environmental and and social standards over others um I think if you look at very simple case studies and and again I don't want to do the pr for Val here but if you compare Val's projects in Indonesia with some of

the more conventional projects I mean these performance on on on environmental standards is really radically different right and there's other examples here in in the room and Danel will speak next about about their performance and in Brazil um same thing so you need to have those regulatory instruments to be able to discriminate those projects and facilitate the especially that facilitate the of the more responsibly might Ann it's so thank you so much and and it's sad it's easy but it's really complex because on the one side you and you mentioned that and it's the same

for oil and gas it's the same for when moving to transition to the Renewables guaranteeing the outtake and guaranteeing the outtake with a different pricing because it it will have the ESG premium who's going to pay for it so that's the big elephant in the room that we have to discuss and as more we we get together these different stakeholders that's the type of transparent discussions we need so with that before get to the the examples because we have Sigma we have value here I'd like to listen to Tate about a bit about about the

regulatory challenges hear me okay kind of up and down but um hello I'm Tate McDonald I'm actually I'm gonna speak with that yeah I'm a partner at here atand night but let's try this one because there's a lot of people within the yeah is that better okay um I'm a partner at Holland at night in the DC office um so I'm actually going to speak more about the policies and I too struggled with the definition of sustainable but I think I'm going to hit the mark okay for today so um I am a partner in

the DC office and I specialize in public um funding and programs specifically in the battery space so about a third of our work is in this development of a supply chain and to date we've been successful obviously there have been discussion a lot around Ira programs and programs are already in place we've helped a lot of companies navigate that funding most recently with um the announcement made this week doe granted another three um billion dollars of funding to minerals and materials but the key now so there's always been a lot of discussion over the past

three years since these programs passed on sorry microphone but since the program is passed on exactly what are we going to do to get the programs allocated how do we build these facilities how do we make them financeable so that to date has been happening through a few Key Programs the program that I just mentioned that's just announced that is grant funding through the US federal government so that's 40207 of the bipartisan infrastructure law $6 billion dollar for these projects then you have the loan programs that the US has set up Al again a lot

of talk of talk I'm not going to go through that because that those have all been around for a while and are well known the discussion now really is how are we going to how are we going to secure these projects and how are we going to secure that investment that the US is making to develop a sustainable supply chain and what's happening in DC right now that a few folks have already alluded to is really this discussion about the demand side and the stockpile and how we create programs around that and I will say

we're not great at it so and there's really no working precedent here so it's going to be a challenge and but what's what's really critical about this point in time is that this is the first time the US is trying to do it so before when we looked at like the solar supply chain and we looked at solar financing and on Shoring in the US it was okay when China was doing what they are doing now now in batteries and materials we've worked so hard to get the supply chain and fun and finance these projects

but now we need new programs that we've never really created before to secure this investment so obviously anything that's new is hard in the US and with the Govern with government programs and support but what we've started to see is examples in the hydrogen demand side from the hydrogen Hub program that a portion of the previously allocated bipartisan infrastructure law funding was set aside side or demand side programs associated with those um with those initial Investments so that's what we're working on in the battery space now is looking at those initial Investments and that allocated

the allocated dollars and saying what can we do with some of the funding that's left to secure the round one projects that were made that were announced in October 2023 um so that is what's in process right now and that is actually easy it's not the hardest thing to deploy right away but that's going to be a Band-Aid that's just going to be the first step in this process so number one we'll be using that remainder remainder of funding that allocated appropriated from the US Congress today to look at how we secure that initial investment

number two and three are moving into the next stages are we going to do a stockpile are we going to do a larger demand side program that is still process but the good news is we are getting closer to so there is a significant amount of discussions on Capitol Hill what is um comforting to me is this is really the only bipartisan one of the only bipartisan areas in the industry that we're really seeing get a lot of traction and will'll probably be seamless if we have a change in administration so the bottom line is

there is there is discussion out there but it's really happening on the ground in Washington with regard to the demand side programs it's just not going to be as fluid as the even the development of the programs in the whether they're grants or the loan guarantee programs because we've never done a demand side program but U what's great about this space and this sector in particular is it is it is being it is an absolute necessary for the US government especially after they make these so work in progress but you are going to start to

see announcements on the initial program probably there was rumors that they may have been last week obviously that got pushed because it didn't happen um and I can't talk about that here but there are programs and and process as well as follow on legislation that will be much much more robust than the programs and process stop that good news is that we are we are progressing it's still pH loves to come and it's it's funny because you're mentioning this for the us but if we move around the world like the discussions around how do we

make how do we bond this and and build this new business models the models that will come like energy and then the technology and then who's going to supply these and and creative financing for that so that we are able to be competitive with different standards so that's the huge thing and what we're saying before we leave is don't don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good let's start with a smaller program then move on from it no totally yes so the pilots yeah like the pilot projects and and showcasing this to the

world so with that I will start with Danielle from that that has done a lot in terms of sustainable lithium and if you if you can bring like the challenges the the practices and what's what's going on sure hello hello okay hello there we go um so let me start by building on on a point that was brought up by by by Kristoff earlier um that you know to have sustainable mining uh you can't have sustainability without traceability and that becomes a real issue in terms of the supply that we're seeing in the market today

that has led lithium prices to tank literally just because the market is flooded with untraceable products so having said that um how do we address this issue for our clients uh we call our product quintal zero green lithium and that's just in the spirit of transparency why quintal zero first we have we are the first operations globally that has zero tailing dams in lithium we simply adapted existing Technologies in the sector in order to dry stack these STS all also we use zero hazardous chemicals in our plant our grain Tech plant uses a process called

dense media separation to extract the spine mineral which contains the lithium oxide from The Ore by a dense me of Separation so we use inert chemicals in order to do this third zero we use zero dirty power we have a 5-year contract with the power company in the state of Min that guarantees um Supply from renewable sources namely Hydro solar and wind um fourth zero we use zero drinking water which is a a real problem in other lithium jurisdictions in the world in our case we pump water from a river 5 kilometers away from our

operations whose quality is improper even for industrial use so we established a water treatment station right at the entrance of our plant where we treat the water and then this water is fully recirculated in the in the plant circuit until it's evaporating and finally we are zero carbon because the foots of the carbon foot in our operations are only in the mining part it's in the diesel used in the trucks and today we use about 15% biodiesel our goal is to try to reach 50% by 2026 and in the explosives using the mine which we

use computer simulations to try to optimize and minimize the impact so that's the Quint zero there and then the other thing that's important to say we talking about circularity our plant has three outputs the high-grade concentrate product which is our main product we sell there's a low grade product as well which is in the tailings which also contains lithium content and these tailings can be upcycled and used in you know products that do not require as highly Purity pure lithium as batteries for EVS so for um portable electronics and things of that that nature and

third the output from the dense meta separation is a course gravel with no economic value so we simply donate that to the municipalities and our surroundings in order to pave the rural roads so there's you know full use of everything that comes out of the plan now everything that I'm saying here wouldn't have been possible without the buyin of the communities where we are our operations today were in the North east of the state of n it's one of the regions in Brazil with the lowest human development indices in the country extremely poor area so

instead of thinking when thinking about the social aspect of the operation instead of doing donations and you know contributing uh uh uh materially we think about creating opportunities for the people in these communities to be able to grow alongside with us so simple uh measures that go a long way we use 40 ton trucks instead of 100 ton trucks which is more of a standard in the industry because it's easier to train people to drive these trucks and therefore we can create more jobs for the women in the region we created a micro credit program

which started with 500 women where they get 2,000 hi that's less than $400 and today the program has over 2,000 women um also during construction phase we have over 1,000 people on our site and after the construction is over we have programs with the local universities to train these construction workers to become welders uh equipment uh uh uh uh drivers etc etc um so that you know I'm just trying to say that you have to think we the previous panel talked about um you know thinking wholesome about the the project and this is how we've

we've gone about doing it and we will get back to you because actually before moving to Daniel how if you can explore a bit and the challenges with the pricing because um Sigma is an example that is is doing the best it can in terms of sustainability but then in terms of competitiveness it's it's challenging if you're doing the right and then there are other companies that are just selling and and and and and are not in the same basis so how you how is dealing with that so the the supply issue we already addressed

right I mean the lot of the untraceable materials will drop the price but with the price and drops these untraceable materials are also more costly to recover lithium from so these operations there's high inventory right now and these inventories are slowly being destocked um but having said that uh um the way we price our product is on the hyd lithium hydroxide curve historically our competitors have priced this at about 7% of the price of the hydroxide curve we've been able to achieve about 8 and a half to 9% given that our product is really differentiated

so um I'll also like to hear from you Bruno um relative to what uh Valley's been able to do within the segment here okay thank you um basically to to start uh I think we need to discuss how we miners can help uh the word to decarbonize and and I see three paths actually one has been widely discussed here uh that's in energy transition how can we Supply critical minerals for any transition and we have our base Metals business that Emily uh discussed about but we cannot forget the second and Andre touched that how we

decarbonize po value chains industrial value chains basically if I add up I don't or any steel and cement we get to almost 20% of global emissions IND those two I don't know is still about 8% it's where as a case example valy chose to build what we call Mega hubs with our clients uh basically supplying high quality onor using our agglomeration Technologies and basically via that we can with our clients produce low carbon steel moving to Green steel that's how we can address in collaboration with societies clients and we do believe in this approach uh

and the question to you is that we debate critical MIRS as lithium copper nickel the ones we also produce but high quality ion or is super critical to decarbonize the wordss and few countries are putting that on the list Canada is one and I provoke that Brazil should be one we have the largest high quality reserves in the word and maybe because it's so abundant to us we don't see as critical but it's super critical for the world and cement as well we built a green cement business uh using I don't noring or I don't

know waste produce cement and that's one of the business that that we expect to launch uh soon uh and going more into circularity uh we designed the uh the mind of the future for Valley and basically a mind of the future super sustainable connected uh autonomous and the workforce that remains is super qualified and one of the things that we do need to improve as miners is to be less invasive we need to mine with smaller Footprints generating less impact and that's why I do believe that we need to be zero waste zero tailings and

carbon neutral so and sharing value societies and a way to do that is via circular Mining and that's where we built our circular mining program this called waste and we have been reprocessing taking dams we have one in Amazon that's called galad uh basically name plate capacity of 10 million tons per annual um from tailings um products similar quality and Via circular means we are have been also reprocessing waste a lot of test work being done around the globe to really use our waste as product we as value we are one of the largest producers

of sand right now in Brazil so with Improvement in processing the tting that remains is much cleaner and we are able to sell this year more than a million tons of sand into the Brazilian markets we are also producing bricks for construction we are also developing a line as a said of cement uh we are in test uh with embrapa of a fertilizer from waste rock from carajas those are the circular use that we as miners we need to deliver to society we we don't deliver that we will not earn our social license to operate

and just to provide some numbers some real numbers from from us uh this year we expect 2% of our production will be from circular sources next year for 20301 and just calculating the benefit of circular mining in terms of CO2 savings and that's why the third piece of decarbonization for minores is to decarbonize ourselves uh it's 1.2 million cars in this 10 years it's equivalent the saving CO2 to .2 million cars running a year at the European cycle so that's massive and several times you just in terms of circularity we keep debating Recycling and I'm

not saying that it's not needed actually I'm one of the people that we have I have been defending heavily to recycle materials in in the industry but we knew we need to do the process circularity the better use of what we have mining we use Affinity resource if we don't use it well with less waste less sailings you know with better recoveries it will finish the cost will Skyrocket and you will not be able to supply critical miners that the world needs and that's from our case I'll steal your mic so thank you very much

and with with both with with both what Daniel and you said there's a lot of challenges within the responsible governance and Tate also mentioned that Visa has been done has been doing a lot of work within the governance space um if you could bring us some life to that Lisa it would be lovely thank you thank you so much um the the privilege but also the challenge of being lost is uh that I had prepared remarks but forget it I want to respond to all the incredibly thoughtful and interesting comments that my um fellow panelists

and also the earlier speakers mate we as you said I've been working in this space for a very long time more than 15 years and for 15 years we've been saying that mining is at the heart of the sustainable development challenge frankly we've been saying that since before the sustainable development goals adopted and as I was sharing with my Val friends here um and and Patricia and others know our history it was the former CEO of Val um roer agelli that sat with us when our program was being was was two of us with an

idea at Colombia and we sat together in 2007 and thought about the importance of I of of actually thinking about what it would take to get this right what does it look like to uh to meet the mineral needs of our society but in a way that achieves broader sustainable development and that has been what we've been trying to do for 15 years we were delighted when the Secretary General announced uh the UN panel on critical mineral for the energy transition because again many of us had been saying it's bizarre that we have a climate

goals we have cop and we don't have a special track to look at the role of critical materials these are poor not only by the way to the energy transition but to many other sustainable development transitions more generally Transportation digitalization automation urbanization critical minerals are Central to all of those sustainable trans Transformations and they require uh real International collaboration and real thinking about how to get this right so we were absolutely delighted when that was announced and uh warmly welcome the principles but really hope that this is a um a starting point frankly for the

discussions that need to be had and and far from an ending point part of the reason that we've said that mining is at the heart of the sustainable TS actually I would say that there are three reasons I maybe two reasons but one of them has two parts one is because of the products they produce we've just discussed that not only uh the critical materials but sand cement um you know literally the products they produce are the products of our lives and our societies but the other is because of the processes and both the potential

for transformative sustainable development because these are large long-term capital intensive infrastructure intensive projects that have the potential to transform societies and but also the potential for other types of social environmental impacts and I want to say even though I want to end on a hopeful note because I do have hope and because we have Incredible Minds working on these issues is that we should take stock of the of our track record for the past 15 years and as we have new conversations which I warmly welcome about critical minerals in the energy transition and sustainable development

Transformations we should be honest about the challenges that we face over the past 15 years and that despite by the way even the incredible and I've seen and I can attest to the the not only intentions but the the resources that many leading mining companies not all but many leading mining companies have put into uh into really trying to engage with local communities with national governments with International processes and so on the challenges persist and they are really complex and I think we really need to look back and try to understand why what are these

what what has not gone right by the way Daniel I think mentioned that um the mine is in one of the poorest regions in Min that's true all around the world most mining projects sorry I don't know my statistics many mining projects take place in the poorest regions of those countries where these where the mining projects are the potential springboard for development or or the last opportunity and then they're left dealing with environmental and social Strife after so I would just encourage us all and I did as I've engaged with the wonderful panel members many

of whom are very close friends and collaborators for many years that I see two two conversations that we two strands of conversations that I encourage us to have going forward one is that as we now unite to implement these guided principles and to look at what critical at what responsible Supply chains look like and how do we actually achieve sustainable development that we have honest difficult conversations around what has been difficult in the past and I will say again as as somebody who has worked very closely with different stakeholder groups with the companies with the

governments with the communities genuinely good well-intentioned in smart people can have different perspectives on what the challenges are there are some difficult areas around what is a fair deal what's fair taxation I'm looking at Tomah who's been a leader on this for many years what how what what does consent look like how do we manage environmental impacts that are not we don't have good solutions for those yet so on one hand I hope that we can have conversations around some of the difficult tensions and tradeoffs and complexities on which reasonable Minds can disagree and I

think are underly many of the continued challenges in the sector and then there are the new opportunities and the new questions and the new um imperatives that are presented by I The Surge and demand for the energy transitions the ecological constraints and so on I I think what Val has done on circular economy is extraordinary and we should learn from it and seek how to how and think about how to um strengthen the ecosystem to enable and encourage policies like that across the board and I think there's a lot of research there my colleagues and

I worked with mcmm and including Vol and many of mcm's members to start the conversation around circular practices and the policy framework that could support those so there are new challenges and New Opportunities Supply chains um and uh and offtake agreements and so on I would put in that category new technologies um where we can uh try to invy for the future so I'm very much look forward to continue to work with all of you and uh and to pursue let's see thank you so much a lot a lot being said and and just fall

into us that so much that we have to really bring together these different and multi-stakeholders to really move this forward and get like these great examples and showcase them and see how they can be applied in different areas so things happening in Brazil how can this bond with things happening in Indonesia um a better form of exploring this critical minerals in a just way and aligned with a just transition towards Africa and so on and so forth so great great thoughts um we're in to the F the the end but i' would like to see

if someone from the audience would like to to to do a question um otherwise I I will I would leave Benjamin judan which is director of Latin americ program in Wilson Center with the hard challenge to to sum everything we've and in the key takeaways but let's see if we has any questions oh here we have can you hear me um thank you so much for all talk loud is that okay um thank you so much for all of these insights I want to pick up on something Lisa that you mentioned and a couple others

around the relationship between these sites and project sites being also in the most climate risky vulnerable lowest income places um those often tend to be the ones who are either on this Pathway to development or where there's this last Stitch Resort for development Economic Development opportunity these are also the communities that um have the highest burden of adaptation um in addition to this interplay with the transition so I'm curious if there's any way that this is expressing itself in your work um and how we might bring some of those conversations and Stitch those a little

bit more closely together if that's coming up at all do you want to start question I'll try to be very and and suggest two things one that mining companies some are and that we've worked with mining compan to do and that more General answer to your question one is that we worked with some mining companies to uh to integrate um datadriven development into their uh Community Eng their Regional projects so to really understand to use SG indicators and so on to really understand what the constraints and the challenges are in the in the communities which

should reveal some of the constraints that relate to climate vulnerability that would help to inform of more effective um interventions and so on that's my somewhat simplistic answer because my real answer is that this sector has long been siloed from the broader sustainable development conversations and Str and National strategies public investment programs and and more part of that is because there's this perception that when mining companies that are well resourced are working in these areas they should be able to uh or they are expected to or look to take on some of the social Environmental

needs of the community but I don't think that that's the right approach really extending Public Services managing broader vulnerabilities but also the sustainable development needs of communities really belongs in a national plan and the challenge that I don't think we've done effectively is how do mining projects and how can mining companies support and fit into those National plans often those plans don't exist countries don't have them they're not well supported to do that they don't necessarily have the resources to invest as you and I have discussed they don't have the tools to know how to

effectively invest in adaptation and so on and so in my ideal we have a framework where the company the mining companies can support in some way or engage in National policy together with other Regional development partners and so on to support the government in extending those types of services and Investments to mining communities and actually one our very first projects with B again with agelli with coo agelli in 2008 or 2009 was doing kind of just that in mosan Beque where there was a where Vol had an investment in in the coal fields in Ted

Province and but what we and they supported our team to help develop a broader National resource based development strategy for the government thinking about the legal framework the fiscal regime environmental considerations invest um infrastructure development engagement and so on to engage with the government it was supported by Vol but the project was to engage with the government on thinking about how to leverage these resources for father so I think that model could could eily be a replication does anyone want to two a two the ghost again but then um I'll leave it to you to

sum up now Benjamin our our final words and remarks so applauses for this panel thank you so much excellent um so I'm Benjamin I direct the Latin America program at the woodro Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington um this was a terrific event I hope you enjoyed it I appreciate your participation we held this in partnership with these fantastic institutions SE and Brazil and Holland and night Columbia University and other colleagues and so we're we're really grateful for having had this opportunity to collaborate the though I direct the Latin America division um it's a

global institution and across the institution we focus quite a bit on critical minerals um with some of the same Partners who are working in Latin America working in Africa and elsewhere and so I think having this Global Perspective was was exceptionally useful we have a couple of events coming up that I can't help but uh promote here we'll be in Buenos syes in early October talking about the energy transition the role of Latin America that's Renewables and green hydrogen but also critical minerals so let me know if any of your institutions are interested in working

with us on that we'll also on the margins of the G20 energy ministerial in fosd wasu will also be there and some of you are already aware of that opportunity um but in each of these cases we look to your expertise your companies um to provide all of the the perspectives necessary to understand these challenges I'm going to summarize very briefly because I know you have a lot I'm sure to do around town during this exciting week in New York City um but there's a few things I think that were really clear to me throughout

this conversation one is that this issue is not a fad right that this is an issue despite decreases in prices lately that have had some effects I'll mention on investment that the energy transition is happening it is real it is accelerating in many cases and the critical minerals conversation will have to be an important piece of that throughout um I think what we heard is a sense of urgency that as as was described that mining is a generational project that the the runway needed for these projects to be done and done well requires lots of

strategic planning and thinking um and so you know these conversations themselves have to accelerate and and the capital has to move much more quickly and that this is complicated right that the local community considerations are not simple that mining as we just heard typically takes place in in most of the poorer regions in countries that there are conflicts between countries and regions but within countries that the environmental issues from waste from energy use from water use um these are all not simple and not cheap to address but but have to be a part of the

conversation particularly if we're to avoid a lot of the errors of the past that have given the extractives industries the the kind of reputation that sometimes make it difficult to have the social license that we've heard many times today as absolutely necessary for this to move forward and then the questions about the the local Community State and Country needs that sometimes are overlooked we've heard from Kristoff that 85% of investment in renewable energies is happening in developed countries and in wealthy communities um and that needs themselves when they come to energy are often ignored and

so energy poverty the lack of access to to energy of any sort um remains an issue and so while we accelerate in the production of clean energy and the minerals needed for it um we can't have that only from the perspective of wealthy countries that are generating the demand and providing the capital just not only are there questions of justice but also of of social license again and of the ability to work with the governments where a lot of these minerals are found as I mentioned I I specialize in Latin America um that's not incidental

to this conversation when it comes to lithium it's more than 60% of the global Supply is found in just three countries in South America um in Argentina and Bolivia and Chile as you know well Brazil has has you know many of these minerals themselves graphite and nickel and rare Earths and lithium as well Sigma um is represented here today but it's a region I think that's a good case study for a lot of what we just heard a region where we've seen resource nationalism with these resources in previous ones we've heard about Indonesia today but

you could say the same about Bolivia Mexico which nationalized its lithium resources the approach which is mixed in Chile um the anti- extractivism from memories of when things were not done to the standards they're being done today you know there's examples like Serbia famously for lithium but we've also seen this in Panama which just closed a copper mine that was a major producer of copper after Nationwide protests with concerns about many factors but among them environmental sustainability and so the concern about whether these industries will lead to Downstream opportunities in these countries this is very

much on the minds of those thinking about industrial policy throughout the world and including in Latin America and a fear of a renewed commodity dependence and volatility of commodity prices and what that could mean the difficulty attracting sufficient capital for these projects the difficult operating environment and high political risk so all of these challenges that we heard today I think you know are not only present in the region that I specialize on but but as we just heard um throughout the speed that that these projects uh take place in which is slow much slower than

the demand will be we heard quite a bit from the International Energy agency about this very large gap between projected supply and demand for lithium for copper and for other critical minerals and the fact that the regulations and laws um need to keep up and that we can't depend only on consumers and the demands that they have that every component of Clean Energy Technologies um be produced with sustainability in mind um and that the CSG premium um might have to be borne by consumers but but in fact might have to be imposed these high standards

by regulations and laws as well and an operating environment that permits companies to meet their own high standards meaning that renewable energy is available that the grids are adequate that when countries bring high standards for ESG that governments are not an obstacle to that in trying to meet those meet those High criteria and then I think the other piece that I took home from this is that there are extraordinary opportunities I think we heard we heard it referred to as a big prize at the end of a lot of these Investments we've talked a lot

about the obstacles about whether these minerals will be available about environmental and social consequences um but I think the the fact that there's such confidence in the direction of travel and the demand for these minerals and the ever accelerating energy transition means that conversations like this um can be optimistic both from a private sector and from a environment Al from a government um perspective and I think so I take with me that optimism that these conversations are occurring and they're occurring involving all stakeholders and pretty much everyone has a lot to gain if this is

done well right and that governments are generally speaking also invested in this right that they see this as another engine of opportunity that this critical minerals Boop again if handled well um could provide development opportunities at the local and National level again in Latin America I think that's true almost everywhere the region has just suffered you know a decade of very slow growth um and is eager for opportunities again with a desire not to have them exclusively come from Commodities but that recognizing that mining of these minerals could be a critical area for for job

creation and then ideally for participating in these salue chains up and down right and that the International Community um is engaged and generally speaking there to help um I think we've seen massive investments in in these regions from China of course we saw the the commission the president of the EU commission the German Chancellor the treasury Secretary of the United States all visited Chile in like a six-month period last year and earlier this year I think it's a signal of the recognition that the countries that hold these minerals need to be engaged with need to

be taken seriously and their industrial policy interests environmental and social considerations need to be taken into account there's a mineral security partnership and lots of other civil society and intergovernmental efforts some of which were mentioned to today that I think are signal that there is some strategy um to all of this and it isn't merely a scramble and a competition and as we heard from Tate there's bipartisan consensus in the United States on the need for these minerals to be to be Diversified in terms of their sources and to be produced with sustainability in mind

and I don't say that lightly as anyone following the US election and US politics knows it's a period of extraordinary polarization but the fact that you know this has now been over two different administrations a priority for the White House I think is is quite significant and not only a priority in planning but also in in funding and the historic inflation reduction act um for all its its weaknesses and complications think was you know it's historic for a reason the amount of resources are really extraordinary um and the signals are pretty clear um of of

where the US economy is headed and and so those demand signals ideally will provide stability and and the sense of of opportunity in the future that will keep investment despite the volatility and prices that that we heard quite a bit about about today I think it was a 75% reduction of lithium prices over just the last two or three years we heard but again I think as as well we know the direction of travel is for greater demand and and eventually a price recovery on these so the the geostrategic considerations are also complex and I

want to just maybe conclude by mentioning the you know the we've heard today the dependence on China the processing and refining of many of these materials some of the reactions that could make it complicated for these materials to move around the world including us tariffs on Chinese batteries these are EV batteries and grid batteries um the you know the conflicting priorities that we see for desires for onshoring in some in Europe and the United States um that can sometimes run in conflict with the desire to develop these resources and industries and economies in the developing

World on places that hold these materials EU us cooperation but also competition so again I think the the role of the International Community I would say is mixed and complex and of the of the wealthy economies but I do see again the the most positive piece of this is this consensus that it's important the consensus that it has to be done better than some of these industries were managed in the past the consensus that um the countries that hold these minerals have to have their interest taken seriously across the board and again the great sense

of urgency and increasing capital and attention that's being dedicated to this whether it's from the inflation reduction act from desires for for recycling as we heard today but above all for the the vast increase in in production of these minerals and diversifying their sources and in making sure that the the social license um is obtained and and retained throughout the process um so that the energy transition globally can can benefit the environment while all these communities and governments and societies benefit as well throughout the process I guess coming from a civil society institution then I'll

end where I began which is to say that conversations like this I think are really essential for this where expertise is brought to bear where private sector perspectives are here where we talk seriously about government policies from royalties and taxes to environmental and social um considerations are all discussed I think in the same fora I think we're seeing that more and more um but still not enough and so I'm really validated by by today's event again thrilled that the Wilson Center was included and that se and our other partners um invited us to be part

of this and I hope that you know we'll continue to play a role in these conversations from our perspective at Washington and New York and elsewhere goinging forward so thank you very much for being here I truly appreciate it I I learned a lot I hope you did too