Simon Sinek & Trevor Noah on Friendship, Loneliness, Vulnerability, and More | Full Conversation

good afternoon everybody how you doing um as you can see there's there's nothing up here because there was nothing uh here um I'll I'll tell you how this came to be so first of all um thank you and I hate you Anastasia um but we we were having a conversation in the in the little Courtyard yesterday and I bumped into Simon I've seen him around a bunch I love him I always tell you I have a like the biggest brain crush on you um M but but we're having we having the discussion and then you

know Sarah came out from the team was like are you guys speaking no we're not blah blah blah would you like to I like I said I'd speak if he does something I just want to listen to him and then Anastasia was like I heard you and now here we are so I'm not going to waste anybody's time cuz I I I'm sure many of you will agree with me but if you don't know this this man right here is honestly one of the greatest thinkers of Our Generation I love how his mind works I

love how he challenges us how he thinks about thinking and the really all I wanted to know and it sort of is the Genesis was yesterday is um what are you fascinated by right now because I know you always working on something or you always drilling into something yeah what are you what are you fascinated by right now well it's interesting because the thing the common theme that we've been hearing from all the talks today um which is is which is the passion isn't some manufactured thing where you sort of find the passion and do

what you're passionate you know passion is an output not an input and what we hear is somebody finds an obsession for something and that then becomes their their passion and the same is definitely true I'm sure for you and definitely true for me um so the thing that I'm sort of obsessing about right now is friendship um there's an entire industry to help us be better leaders there's an entire industry to uh help us be better uh parents there's an entire industry to help us eat better exercise better sleep better um and yet there's barely

anything on how to be a friend um and if you think about all the mental health challenges that so many of us are facing today whether it's uh coping with stress depression anxiety addiction uh even obsession with longevity um friendship is the ultimate biohack that literally fixes all those things you it's it's interesting that you said this so i' I've always felt like um you know I'm not a very superstitious person grew up very religious but I I do believe in some sort of magic in the universe and some every time I bump into you

I feel like we're thinking about the same thing but on a slightly different path and usually people are forced to listen to us just talk about that I apologize but but the thing the reason this fascinating me is because I've been thinking a lot about friendship and what it means and a friend of mine actually said to me on a trip recently she said in successful spaces often times people will use the word sacrifice you know we heard many people we heard Martin we heard so many people up on the stage saying sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice

sacrifice and she said one of the most powerful things ever to me she said when we say we've sacrificed something for our career we shouldn't be afraid to put a name to who that sacrifice was because often time it was the people in our lives that we call friends yeah and I wanted to know have you been thinking about that like what is what is the balance what is the what is the Confluence like how do you how do you think of friendship and then the sacrifice that brings you here to sit with people where

you may make new friends or not well I think definitely for me and I can't speak for anybody else but definitely for me I think the sacrifice was lopsided and I think uh especially for high performers who who I think later on in life you start to realize that that network of friends sometimes isn't there because you've sacrificed you know the number of us who have canceled on friends because a meeting comes up yeah because they'll understand right um and yet the reverse is very rarely true that we'll say to somebody for a meeting can

we meet on Friday instead of Thursday because in my calendar we wouldn't say it but in my calendar is a friend um and definitely for me the times where I have tripped slipped fell hit Rock Bottom felt alone any of those spaces my work wasn't going to rescue me um and it was by the grace of of some higher power that there was always a friend who saw it and recognized it in me um who picked me up and so I realized that um we we we talk about investing we talk about um um you

know and this is a different kind of investment um you and I were talking about it the other day you know which is um um people are moving to in the United States you know people are moving from California and and New York to Texas and Florida to avoid paying taxes um because they want to save time and yet where else I want it I want it to be the reverse like I want to like I'm not worried about like saving the money you know to be in a place I don't want to live right

I want to live with the people I love and if it costs more and by the way by cost I mean that maybe I won't achieve that thing or maybe I'll miss that deadline or maybe I'll miss that that quarter you know it's a different kind of sacrifice we we think of sacrifices always against people but I can make a sacrifice for my career for my friends and it's about striking that right balance because your friends will be there for you your work won't yeah you see I love that line your friends will be there

for you your work won't I was talking to a friend about this conversation and my friend was like what do you like what do you love about Simon so much and I said what I love about Simon is this is I feel like you're a you're a truffle pig of um of like ideas that will shape the world and what I mean by that is what I mean by that is like so I'm French yeah whatever you choose to take from it take from it uh what I choose to to to say by saying that

is I love seeing what you're sniffing around in because I believe it's connected to something far greater yeah you know what I mean it's not the Truffle but it's the meal that is now going to influence and the restaurant that it's now going to shape you you you have that brain I it's friendship yes but what what why would you care about friendship friendship is like yeah go out with your friends hang out with your friends why would you care about friendship on like a global scale what what what's in it Simon what's happening um

so let me take one step back and try and get to An Answer um our understanding of addiction largely comes from an experiment that has done I think in like the 50s or 60s where they put a rat in a cage there was one thing of water where it was plain water and one thing that was laced with drugs right and in short order the rat discovered the drug laced uh beverage and loved it drank more and more until it killed itself and our understanding of addiction largely comes from this study um there was a

guy named uh I think his name was Bruce Alexander who who said hold on it's flawed the whole the whole study is flawed because rats like us are social animals and we put a rat by itself in solitude of course it became an addict but that's not what you're supposed to do with social animals he recreated the experiment where he put like first of all he put lots of rats in the in the cage so social Community uh they put like wheels and mazes and they were having kids and babies and two waters a plain

water and uh and the and the drug laced water and they could see from the data they knew which ones and they all tried enough of the drug laced water to get addicted right but they didn't they're they're taking in of the water declined and they only drank the plain water which starts to give evidence that that if we have close friendships and when if we live in community perhaps we're less susceptible to all addiction and and I know that there's a lot being talked about about the addiction of social media the addiction of cell

phones which is true which is true it is a highly dopamine producing device and and that it's causing loneliness and I would argue that if we worked on the friendships and more important if we taught our children how to be friends that perhaps they are less uh likely to get addicted and I think yeah that's and I think so when you talk about what's the global responsibility yeah we're we're teaching how people how to do everything you know we're finding the hacks for everything the one thing we aren't doing is the old-fashioned um hard slow

thing of making friends so okay so here's here's what I've been thinking about over the past two years I've been traveling spending most of my time traveling and in that time I've been thinking about how you maintain a friendship how you keep a friendship and how you build a friendship and in that I I came to realize most of our friendships we we sort of leave to coincidence I bumped into this person I went to the same school as them we were in the same church the same company and that defines our friendships and and

to what you're saying now working on I realized that no one has ever taught us how to work on a friendship like actually work on a friendship you know and most people think they're good friends if you ask most people are you a good friend most people would say yeah I'm a good friend and so so I said have you sacrific that meeting to hang out with a friend have you do you call your friends on their birthday and sing them happy birthday or do you just put a thing on social media saying happy birthday

because you saw everybody else put on social media you know um when a friend is depressed do you go over to their house and climb into bed with them and sit and watch movies and eat ice cream all day and be depressed with them you know um have you done all those things have you ever said to your friend who I love you not love you not love you I love you have you done those things are you a good friend and the way to prove that those things matter has any has anybody ever done

that for you H when you've been depressed have they come and just sat and been depressed with you not trying to fix you not trying to pull you out of the mud just been depressed with you have they said I love you to you right I learned this from a friend of mine who's by he's a warrior he's active duty military multiple tours he's R risked his life to save the lives of others by any he is a badass he is a warrior and you know you and I have colleagues and co-workers they have brothers

and sisters and I remember the first time he called me brother I remember it was real hey brother you know um but what really stood out um was the first time we got off the phone and he ended the phone call with I love you again not love you not love you I love you and I remember what that felt like and Men definitely rare you know don't do what did it feel like um I felt hugged I felt felt safe I felt that I knew that I could tell him and be anything and I

would he wouldn't judge me or look down on me and it was so powerful that I decided to start experimenting and saying it to the people who I loved and I have some friends who are good people kind people generous people but most would describe them as cold yeah not warm people and I remember I'm thinking of one friend in particular and I decided to say like I I left his house and I was like I love you and and I remember watching him sort of sort of be struck by it yeah in very short

order maybe two or three times after I saw him he started saying I love you back he started hugging me in a way that he's never hugged me um I gave him a kiss on the cheek he kissed me back uh that's where the line [Laughter] is but but but you you live a life where you're away a lot you're on the road a lot I mean your career necessitates you to be on the road right how has that affected your friendships more important how have what have you done to maintain the closeness of those

friendships with with the crazy life that you live I believe in uranium enriched friendships that's how I think about it so I I I think a friendship like I've tried to study friendships as much as I can you know over the over the past maybe like I've really focused on it over the past like four five years and I remember once I was in an interview and somebody said hey what's your goal what's your dream it was actually Forbes Magazine and I said I would love to be successful but I wish there was a top

10 list for somebody who has a friend's net worth because that's that's honestly what I'm trying to do and and and maybe it's confirmation bias but I find that that answer you know keeps coming back to me I was on a I was on a trip to Greece a few years ago and you know if you've ever been to any of these places where people are on boats and having a great time in the water it hypnotizes you and I I turned to one of the Greek guys I was with and I said Nick if

I was trying to get a boat What boat should I get and I'll never forget this his his friend jumped in and he said Ella Ella Ella Trevor Ella let me tell you something the best boat is your friend's boat and it was a joke that had so many layers to me cuz the one was yeah it's true like you know it is if you own a boat there's a lot of stress you don't want to own a boat unless you really love boats but the thing I found profound was this was the fact that

everybody who has a boat needs friends to be on that boat with them and if everybody works to get the boat no one has time to have friends to come on the boat with them and every boat I know is full of friends who are on that boat you know what I mean it's like and and and so so to answer your question so what so sorry so so what i' what I've been doing is I like I recently got back I just got back from Japan we did a 10-day trip with 16 of my

friends that group has grown and all I try to do in in a like it is it is so meticulous it is Meaningful my friends sometimes get irritated with me because they go like why are you so controlled about it and I go because we have to work on our friendship I know it seems like it's just going to happen but we have to work on it when are we having this dinner when are we have a song that we sing which is called are you ready for the question and we sing it maybe like

the fourth or fifth night of every hangout theant Tri that yeah yeah we sing it we sing it are you ready for the question are you ready for the question and then we ask ourselves a question that we've been struggling with because you realize sometimes you can even become a superhero to your own friend group and then you stop releasing or letting go or digging in or scraping away and you'll find your friend will be sitting next to you laughing and going through the worst depression they've ever been through in their lives until you say

hey is everything okay what are you struggling with and then they open up and you go why didn't you tell me they go cuz I I didn't want to burden you I love you as my friend and so that's that's what I Tred do more than more than anything in the world that's my greatest joy that's such a common that's such a common misunderstanding which I didn't want to burden you I don't want to bother you with my problems and I think people don't realize that we don't build trust by offering help we build trust

by asking for it and oh say that again we don't build trust by offering help we build trust by asking for it damn and why why is that because it's your it's your example and you I'm sure everyone in this room has had this experience where someone was in pain didn't call you for fear of bothering you or interrupting you you're a busy person um uh and then you find out once they're okay and I I again I'll just speak from personal experience a friend of mine went through something uh he wasn't completely out of

but he was doing better and I'm like haven't talked in a couple weeks and he sort of like slowly started to say I've been struggling and I said why didn't you call me he says I didn't want to bother you and my immediate reaction was you um how dare you be so selfish to deny me the honor of being there for you in your time of showing up for you and that's what it is it's the incredible that's when you know a friend is a friend when you you it is an absolute honor to be

there at the time they least want to call you do you think that women have a better grasp of friendship than men 100% I think I think for that reason um women make better CEOs um I think I I I do I mean it was we've we've heard it from U multiple female entrepreneurs on the stage today yeah there's a better understanding of the human Dynamic women come up to me uh more often than men um and they get they get my work much better men come up to me and ask for case studies that's

interesting um men want me to prove that trusting people loving people taking care of people is a good thing for business um women inherently understand that and make decisions accordingly um uh so yeah I do think women are better at it I think women are less afraid to say I love you to their friends too one of the um you know one of the conversations I had recently was about you know the rise of the right in the world and it's funny we were talking to Anastasia yesterday about like the state of the world and

and you know and I mean there there's so many things happening that you can't really call it the state of the world but one of the big things I've been worried about recently is young men and how angry they've become how angry they've become how alone they've become how isolated they've become and then ironically how they've turned that anger isolation into a community MH and it's weird because it's literally there's communities of of young men online who have formed communities based in and around loneliness based in and around anger based and they don't try and

become it's interesting that you're saying all these things they don't try and become friends they don't try and teach each other to hug and to love and to feel and no they they they you know what I mean they they they sort of forment these feelings and they go this is why we should hate women and this is why we should hate the government and this is why we should hate society and this is why we should hate and I I I wonder if this world that you're speaking about is we're sort of seeing the

effects of it now is like men who haven't found anything beyond someone said it earlier on stage today is just like men going what am I beyond what I do cuz a lot of these men are unemployed and who am I because of who I am around I mean that's it's it's a huge insight and you asked before what does this conversation have to do with the you know the the bigger world and very I don't think I've ever heard a serious discussion about understanding um uh the a 20-some year old virgin who lives with

their parents and without a job and as it connects to Global terrorism or the or or or moving to violence to solve my problems and especially if you come from a shame based society and when you find other people who are suffering what you're suffering or who get you it's incredibly compelling and and you feel seen and you feel understood and the work of diaan the the British documentarian you she talks about this whether you're talking about white supremacists or we talking about jihadis they are not driven by hate they are driven by love and

she and her work is all about it um um and and this is what we don't understand which is it's people who are missing love desperately looking for love and desperately looking for belonging and when when our Nations don't provide us this is getting into a much sort of like but when our leaders and and you and I have talked about this which is in the world today I think there's been a total loss of idealism yeah you know our leaders used to talk about world peace and peace on Earth you and I having a

conversation about world peace right now would sound cheesy and corny and weird and I think there's been a loss of idealism and when there's a loss of idealism and something to feel like we belong to larger than ourselves larger than our nation larger than the work that we do if that's missing we still look for that we still look for that belonging but unfortunately we find it down here right um and I think we're we're witnessing the loss of idealism in the world right now how we're finding community at low levels and tearing each other

apart before we run out of time there's one other thing I wanted to to dig in you know and and learn from your mind um during Jay's um presentation it was it was really cool to see that moment where he asked the question um he said what what is the thing you you wish you had done or you spent more time doing and she said I I wish it was I had spent more time with my friends and that stuck with me partially knowing what we're going to talk about in a way but I was

like man friends and I've spoken to some of you in the audience here by the way you know I mean some of the most successful people Venture Capital etc etc etc etc and our parents and everything and at some of the dinner at some of the moments that we've had together I've asked some of you and I won't you know single you out but a lot of people have said hey and how's your friend group and they go oh man I actually haven't seen my friends in a while and I I haven't and and you

don't know and do you think there is a way to find the balance between showing up as a family person showing up as a mother showing up as a father showing up as you know that that nuclear unit showing showing up as a CEO showing up as a president showing up do you think it's it's possible to show up in those worlds and then still make room for what Society has deemed and nice to have cuz friendship is never seen as you know the thing like I I came here last year with a friend as

a plus one and I remember few people like who's this and I was like my friend they're like but what does he do I was like he's my friend and they're like like for a living I was like yeah I'd like to think so yeah and obviously he does things but to me he's my friend I don't know what he does in that obviously I do but I don't care and and I I I wonder if you like think about that you know for rooms like this where people are so high power powered and so

intense and you know they focused and they go family business I hear a lot of people say that I hear very people say friends I really really work hard on my friendships what do you what do you say to that um I it is more it is more amazing to have an amazing experience with someone than by yourself you can go to it by yourself and say look what look what I did versus do you remember that time we did that and um I think that we especially for leaders and I criticize I think leaders

bear greater responsibility because people follow their leaders yeah so goes the leader so goes the organization so goes leader so goes the Country always so goes the parents so go the children right put your phones away Mom and Dad are on their phone the whole time at dinner right um and I think if the leader publicly said um I just want everybody to know it's Monday Friday I'm leaving a little early it's my friend's birthday and we're going to go celebrate you'll find people prioritizing their friends more I think it's a leadership problem I think

it's something we all have to work on and and and one other thing that I've realized in talking to people just anecdotally and then you know therapists who are really good studying in the space is I think we shouldn't take for granted how much the abandoning or the ignoring of friendships has affected romantic relationships because people have now shifted all of the expectation all of the support all of the you you know the love that they got from a community of friends and they've moved it on to one person and a lot of the I

think there's a few studies that have actually shown even having a friend where you can talk about your your partner too which is healthy by the way yeah yeah actually improves your chances of staying with your partner o That's I'm just no no I'm having an Insight here this is a this is thank you for being the trouble Pig and uncovering this magical little insight that the same thing is happening at work is happening in our relationships so it used to be where we sort of had bowling leagues and we got our community from there

we got our sense of belief from church work was the place we made our living we had barbecues with our neighbors and over time those things have disappeared and now we demand of our work that you be the place of of purpose you be the place of community you be the place of my social life now you be the place that matches my politics we're putting all this pressure on work to fulfill every desire I have and we're doing the exact same thing in our relationships which is we we've seem to abandon those outside places

and we're asking of our partners to be everything all the time always which is an unreasonable and unfair standard to put on someone or be put on us I've never thought about it from the workplace as well and that's why you're my favorite Truffle Pig I know Anastasia has time to run so I'll leave you with one thing that really you know for me was was perfectly apt for this conversation and it's a it's a it's a saying that we have in South Africa in Zulu which is which means a person is a person only

because of the people and I want to say that I'm genuinely a better person because of you my friend thank you for being here with me thanks for sharing this with us really appreciate it thank you