ATRAVÉS DO GRAFITE - A ARTE QUE PULSA COM A CIDADE

I think it's ignorance. Some people use the word Graffiti if it’s not letter writing or painting illegally. Letter.

Graffiti is the study of letters, their style. . .

The Hip hop movement. Imagine a guy stopping in front of a wall. He puts his backpack on the ground, gets a spray paint can and starts doodling.

All I wanted was to have some fun with my neighborhood friends. I see pixação as an opportunity to get noticed. A guy does it wanting to be seen.

He wants to damage or climb a building. . .

and leave his name on the wall. I think I went a bit further because I went places no one can see. Dangerous places, places with risk of contamination.

where I had accidents, I fell into the Tietê river. It's the gang thing. They want to buy your work but they also want to know your story.

They want to capture a bit of your life, you know? A bit of what you've been through out there. They want to be a part of it.

I never thought I'd be able to make money off art, off graffiti because, for me, graffiti was about vandalism and not about painting on canvas. Art is unlimited, dude. It's unlimited.

You can do whatever you want. You can use it however you want. São Paulo.

Dude, São Paulo, as I see it. . .

It still is a benchmark for the world. It's awesome. Dude, what have I not painted in São Paulo?

I'm Vinicius Caps. I've been painting in the streets for 22 years. Since I painted for the first time it got into my head.

Then I got excited and started to paint everyday and that's it. That's it. Until this day I'm in this saga.

Through our work and effort we show people. . .

Through our daily doings. . .

We showed them we weren't what they thought we were. The marginalization of it. .

. Like damaging things. .

. I'm known as Mari Mats. I'm from São Paulo.

I was raised in northern and downtown São Paulo. I think I was a bit influenced by it because I grew up in the north zone and then I moved downtown and it expanded my ideas and all the things which made me get interested in graffiti. I've been doing graffiti for 18 years.

I'm 34 years old. And that's it. That's who I am.

A multi artist. I started doing pixação in 2012. I used to write my name: Carol.

I wanted to join a crew but I wasn't accepted. So I decided to write my own name and I started going to the streets. I met a lot of people.

Nowadays I see things in a different way because of graffiti. I am who I am and everything I've learned. .

. Those things I could have learned in school, in college, from books. .

. I think I learn a lot in the streets. It gave me a perspective on life that is very different from the one I'd have if I hadn't gone this way.

I'm Dino. I'm an artist with roots in São Paulo's pixação. I started doing pixação in my neighborhood in Osasco, Vila São José.

I was a scholarship student in a private school. I had no money. So I couldn't gain much visibility.

So I saw myself. . .

I see pixação as an opportunity to be noticed and valued. I'm Zézão. I'm a fine artist.

I work with different art mediums. Photography, urban art, art installations. .

. Today I see myself as a multimedia artist. I don't like to label myself as a specific type of artist.

I came from the streets. I started doing graffiti in 1995 in a classic way, influenced by the Hip hop movement. I used to write my name "Zezão" around the city, using colors, drawing arrows.

That classic style. My intention in 1995 was probably the same as all other graffiti artists. .

. writing our names as much as possible around the city. Just like a pixador because I was one as well.

In 1998 I started doing abstract art because I've always had trouble drawing. . .

drawing my letters. Then I began to realize that my path was towards an abstract form of expression. So from 2000 on, I started to be on the lookout for unusual places, you know?

And then I started to work with photography too which nowadays is 50% of my work. So I'm always after unusual places. Usually, these unusual places are not common and they're inhabited.

I ended up standing out because of this style. Because of this search for photography and unusual places and not just for avenues and places like that. I'm Chivitz.

I'm a graffiti artist from São Paulo. I started painting in 1997. I lived in Pari.

I think my thing with walls started when I was about seven years old. I went to a school that had its entire façade painted by an artist. Then after school.

. . My house was on the way so I had to go around the school wall and I used to watch that guy paint.

I think that was the beginning of my fascination with wall painting. I already had a few friends who were pixadores in elementary school. We started seeing pixadores from the ‘80s who were already famous in our neighborhood, in our area.

One of my biggest references is Telão. He and his crew used to get their mopeds and hang outside the school. And they were like pop stars back then.

It was like they were the Beatles when they were outside the school. The girls would scream and all that. "Telão is here!

Telão is here! " That was my first motivation. I thought: "I want to be like those guys.

" "I want to be able to add that social value to my things, to my life. " I took a. .

. I liked music. Hip hop music, electronic music.

So I took a course because I wanted to become a DJ at the time. So I took a course in Campo Limpo, in a house of culture in the south zone in the neighborhood of Mitsutani. There are four elements of Hip hop: Graffiting, MCing, DJing and Breakdancing, B-boying.

I saw a few guys painting and I didn't know what it was exactly. I saw them panting on a wall and I was like "Those guys are painting on that wall? That's dope.

" They said "Dude, let's do some graffiti. " I said: "Dude, graffiti? What the fuck is graffiti?

" I didn't know much about it so I drew teddy bears and things like that. Then the guys said "Teddy bears? Are you kidding?

" "Throw-up is the real deal, dude. " "Are you crazy? Check this mag out.

" Then they gave me a magazine with Jegão in it. "Let's see who draws the best letter and we'll paint it on the wall. " I think art and graffiti were sort of a consequence in my life.

Actually, I started off by wheat-pasting posters. I didn't know how to use spray paint yet. My ideas were still very raw.

I was very afraid back then, you know? I lacked confidence. So I was afraid because I couldn't reproduce my artwork twice.

All my insecurities were transmitted to my work. I think I've always seeked the evolution I told you about. I've worked on improving my stroke technique.

I've worked on improving my other techniques as well. But it was a slow transition. I've been painting in the streets for 18 years.

And nowadays. . .

In the last eight years I've started to feel more appreciated in this scene, and maybe my name is worth a bit more, you know? You see your work being valued. When I started, I used to draw things related to rock and roll, tattoos, etc.

I think the identity of my work came from skateboarding and illustrations from the ‘80s. I didn't start off graffiting. I started off tattooing.

Tattoos have a bit of that language too. Then I learned about the Hip hop movement, man. Graffiti, breakdancing, those guys' style.

So I started to draw using that style. My work changed naturally according to what I had, you know? It was a transition.

It went from black and white to color. I used just a few colors first, then it changed and nowadays I use many colors. I started painting stitched dolls in black and white.

Black spray paint and white latex paint. I was influenced by rock and roll. Stitched dolls like voodoos, you know?

It was a study. For a long time I used black and white in my work until I started using colors, purple. Then I started changing the character's features over the years but it wasn't something that.

. . It wasn't something I studied.

It happened naturally. I think that as you draw and repeat the process you find new strokes, new styles, techniques, etc. It gives you direction.

So. . .

I've been working on that drawing for 25 years. In my day, painting on walls was already complicated. In the 90s there were few graffiti murals.

Imagine a guy stopping in front of a wall, putting his backpack on the ground, then getting a spray paint can and starting doodling. People couldn't imagine that. It was something new.

So they saw it as pixação. Pixação became a part of my life way before I started writing in the streets. On the street where I lived, there was a lot of influence.

. . Many pixadores were from my favela.

So pixação was in my life from an early age. I understood. .

. I'd be out with my sister and she would say "That is Dao's tag. " He is my brother.

"That is Dao's tag. " Then I looked at it. .

. "Wow, he went up there and wrote his name. " So I was like: "Wow, you can write your name on the walls.

. . " You know?

"People will know it's you. That's cool. " Then I started drawing on school desks and bathrooms, like everyone else.

. . And now I'm here talking about all that, you know?

We had to educate people so they would to see it as art, as a form of expression because they saw it as vandalism. It was like: "Those lazy skater boys. .

. " "They come here and damage everything, break everything, make a lot of noise, do pixação on the walls. " But in reality it was the beginning of a movement.

It was new. I never thought I would get into Graffiti. When I started doing pixação, I remember I told a graffiti artist "Dude, I would never do Graffiti.

" I said that. Back then, I loved pixação so much that I thought I wouldn't get into Graffiti. I think that, for me, Graffiti was too flowery.

It was too easy to do it. It was easier to do it because it was colorful. If people see you painting using black they say "What the fuck are you doing?

That's pixação. " Aggressive, beaked, sharp, matte black. It's more aggressive.

If they see someone painting a wall using pink or blue, they say: "Look how nice. That's Graffiti. " So I thought people doing Graffiti were.

. . It was easier to do that than to do pixação.

Someone wrote my sister's name in her notebook. J-A-C, JAC, in a bold font. And that got into my head and I copied the letters C and A.

I used to think: "I really like bold fonts. " But as I was doing pixação I didn't know these two things worked side by side. I started practicing in my notebook.

I started filling it using felt-tip pens. It all starts on a sheet of paper. So I started doing it and that's it.

I've always wanted to. . .

paint as much as possible in the city. That's the idea of the pixador. A pixador has his own calligraphy.

. . which I think is beautiful.

For me, Graffiti is about letters. It's about creating your own letters. It's about demarcating territories.

That's what I paint. That's what I know as graffiti. Hip hop Graffiti.

It's writing. It's the writer. Pixo could be considered the Graffiti of São Paulo.

São Paulo style. I think pixação is a cry. It's a cry.

I still think about the '90s a lot. Pixação was pretty much the only leisure option for the teenagers back in the '90s. Each pixador is a universe.

Some people do it just to get noticed. Some people were angry and wanted to express themselves. Some people did it for political expression.

Each person had its own reason. But in general, I think the social role of pixo in the city. .

. The relationship with the city plays a very important political and social role. For me, pixação is a protest.

When you are doing pixação you're showing that dirt won't be swept under the rug. It's a message I'm sending, you know? I was here.

I was here. It's important and I want people to know I was here. My name is Diego Carvalho de Paula.

I was born in the south zone of São Paulo. I've been in the urban scene for over 25 years. Graffiti, murals, pixação.

I'll be connected to everything related to art. I've been in the scene taking pictures or just hanging with friends for a long time. When I went downtown as a kid I saw artists painting on walls.

And then I saw someone painting the Jaguaré Station. That was in the mid-1992. Then I saw other artists in Lapa.

And somehow it grabbed my attention. Photography is the most important thing in the art scene because it registers this moment, this period. It's about what's in the scene.

It could be a dog, a waste picker. . .

I'll take pictures whether the artist is painting or not. It doesn't matter. Some artists don't like my pictures.

That's ok. I thank them. Some pixadores don't like it.

Amen. And that's it, man. We'll take pictures.

And sometimes that's all we want. We'll take that picture no matter what. It doesn't matter.

We won't ask for permission. We are like pixadores. We use their example of being able to go to places.

. . but we don't want to steal from anyone, steal pictures.

. . We want to register the situation, the reality as it is.

That's my picture too. I think a pixador will always want to do pixação. In the notebook, on the glass shower door while you're taking a shower when the glass steams up and you write a little "D".

Because pixo, the letter itself, is very important in the life of a pixador. I think it's very important historically. Cave people painted on cave walls to eternalize their history.

I think pixadores were able to. . .

The ones who worked hard were able to eternalize their history in São Paulo, in the region they did pixação. So I think it always brights them up when they look at it as they had the intention of leaving their pixo and their history there. When I started doing graffiti I was 13 years old.

I had been doing pixação since I was 11. I used to do pixação in school, near the school and in the neighborhood. Until one day I did pixação on the wall of a house.

. . My mother was a hairdresser and my father was a teacher.

I did pixação on the wall of my mother's client's house, you know? And she saw me and recognized me. The next day she talked to my mother.

My mother was pissed at me and she got me an office boy job downtown. Then I started seeing things in the streets that weren't pixação, you know? They were like graffitti.

Then I said: "This is really cool. " A bit later that same year. .

. One or two months later a movie was screened at Galeria Olido. It was called Beat Street.

That was the beginning of Hip hop in São Paulo. So guys would go there and hold B-boy battles in front of the cinema. There was a smooth marble floor there.

So guys held break dancing and B-boys battle there. And they went to the movies, then left and danced. Then I started graffiting.

The north zone has always been the cradle of graffiti because Binho, Speto and I. . .

There were guys from a crew called Master Crews. We were all from the north zone, you know? There were guys who came because of Alex Vallauri, you know?

He was the first guy to make interventions in the streets. He participated in Biennials and everything. Keith Haring who is an American artist who started on the streets too.

He had already come here. But these guys were older, you know? They had either graduated in Arts or were studying Arts in FAAP, ECA.

. . which are the most important Art schools in São Paulo.

But not us. We were just a bunch of kids. Skateboarding made me see the streets differently.

Until then, the street was just the street. As I started skateboarding I began to see the streets as a place to observe. And the relation between that and graffiti is that that's exactly what graffiti is.

You walk around the streets looking at the walls looking for a place that would be good for your work, a place where it would go well with the urban architecture, you know? We are at Tucuruvi. Tucuruvi station is the blue line terminal station.

Tucuruvi is one of the first regions where graffiti as we do it started. Binho, Speto and I lived here and later the Master Crews. They are from Imirim.

They are an older group. Then came Graphis, Feiki who didn't live here before but then moved here. Markone, Brown.

. . A lot of guys are from here.

Crânio and Zezão are from the north zone too. We are filming here because this is where the first subway train was painted. The São Paulo subway has always been and still is one of the safest in the world.

Painting the subway here is like getting a trophy. You have to be strong to make art. It's not like "I'll paint because I'll get a deal.

" There are no deals. This is for the ones who work hard. Otherwise, soon you will stop doing it.

People who want to get deals will soon be done. There is no supporting role here. There are many brilliant artists who are amazing.

I wish I could talk about them all. Mundano and his actions. There is Tinho, Leiga, Enivo, Lelê, Magrela.

. . Micha.

In my neighborhood there are thousands of artists. Those, Helder. .

. There are so many artists that it's like a planet. There are so many people.

It's something plural. There are thousands who aren't doing the same thing. They aren't ripping anyone's work off.

They're making art. We went to Francisco Morato avenue to paint a building. We were doing a lot of pixações at the time.

We painted a building at Faria Lima. A commercial building. It was very fancy.

We were going there but we didn't have a paint roller. Then in the middle of it we thought: "We'll go to Faria Lima, get in the building we painted yesterday, get the paint rollers we left there and go to the other building. ” I remember it was election time.

Then we jumped over the wall but when we did it we saw the security guards. The security guards ran after us and we didn't find any paint roller. So we walked until we got to Francisco Morato avenue.

Di had already done that once. I was with Di and MK CS and Brutais. Then Di got a corncob in the middle of the street.

He started digging it with a wire. He made a paint roller with the corncob. Then we got to the top of the building.

We jumped over the wall at the back of the building. We managed to break in through a window. We got to the top of the building Amarelão at Francisco Morato.

When we were about to do pixação we had to draw to choose someone to give us a sock because we needed some fabric to absorb the paint. We talked and discussed a lot. In the end, we asked Di to give us his sock.

He used his sock to cover the paint roller, the corncob. The paint roller was perfect. The finish of the paint roller was perfect.

Then we did pixação on the building Amarelão at Francisco Morato. I think the message that gets sent is very nice, man. I've always worried about that because I've always been misunderstood.

I was the most misunderstood artist. . .

Even more than a pixador. The pixador wants to be noticed. He wants to damage or climb a building and leave his name there.

I think I went a bit further because I went places no one can see. Dangerous places, places with risk of contamination where I had accidents. I've fallen into the Tietê river.

. . Just to paint an artwork.

First of all, I've always painted for myself. I've never painted for the sake of self-promotion, getting noticed. I paint for myself.

So as I paint for myself it makes no difference if I paint in an abandoned place or on a main avenue. I lived that moment, I had that experience, I smelled that aroma. I took the risk.

Sometimes I had accidents. Sometimes I received robbery threats, drug addicts threatening to stab me. So when you look at a picture, these memories.

. . Usually, I get my book and look at a picture I remember the smell, I remember what happened there.

I keep these memories, you know? Throughout the 27 years that I've been doing social work I ended up meeting incredible people, you know? I helped a homeless man, a crack user called Badaros.

He was my assistant in Cracolândia. Unfortunately, crack got the better of him. He couldn't overcome the crack addiction.

So I had to give up on him. In the beginning of 2000, I met people who lived. .

. A couple who lived in a sewer. Toninho and Tereza.

Back them, I hadn't yet gained the recognition I gained today. It was the beginning of a work that went against the flow. And I spent christmas with them.

They came to my place. I went to their house. Their house was in the sewer so.

. . There were very strong scenes.

You know when it's written: "Warning: Strong scenes" I've found dead bodies in abandoned places. So I've always been alert to things like. .

. "Man, that place is complicated. " So that's where we would go.

Otherwise it makes no sense, man. . .

Painting somewhere. . .

touristic, you know? It was like: "Man, don't even go there. The place is contaminated.

" "Millions of cockroaches. " "Now I really wanna go there. " I've always seen myself going in the opposite direction.

But later on, as you mature, you understand what this generated, socially speaking. Nowadays, I think about the '90s when I did a pixação on a building on Moema Avenue which is one of the most expensive places in São Paulo. I reached the top of a place I'd never get, socially speaking.

I'd never have access to a penthouse in Moema. I live in the outskirts of Osasco. I would never be invited to go to a penthouse in Moema.

But then I got there by other means. I got in and completed my mission which was doing pixação on that building, and I did it. And as I was up there doing it, I reached the top.

I broke the view of the system. The system thought: "People from the outskirts don't even exist. " "I'm never going to see a guy from the outskirts in Moema.

" But I was there and I went straight to the top. I reached the top of a social structure. Abandoned cars are turned into works of art.

Bringing art to every corner in the neighborhood, because we don't have access to it. We don't have a museum here in the favela. And people that are from here don't go to these places, they don't go to MASP.

They feel oppressed in places like that. In art galleries and such. .

. They usually do it because of work. They go as.

. . as the people who serve drinks at cocktail parties.

I ran into a friend in that situation. There's the guy who is a security guard. They're always used as labor.

I still don't live off Graffiti. I still need to go after a lot of formal jobs sometimes. And when an art job comes up, I do it, but I still can't support myself with it, you know?

So I'm still striving. Because. .

. I've always painted as a hobby. I've always painted because I like painting.

So now I realized I can somehow monetize my work and I'm going to try to do it. But that was never my intention. I never thought I could make money from art or from Graffiti.

Because I saw Graffiti as a street thing, vandalism. It wasn't about painting on canvas. Then I started painting on canvas and I understood.

It's great being able to pass on the message you leave on the streets… into someone's house or into an art gallery. I think it's really hard, the whole graffiti thing. In every scenario.

For example, I'm also in the music business, and I feel that both career paths I chose… I feel that we've always faced difficulties. . .

The women, you know. I feel that today we're fighting to balance things. I hadn't realized that there were few women.

I came to realize that there weren't many women recently. I've started to see that. Ten years ago I didn't understand that we needed women painting too.

But like I said, what made me start painting was seeing other women painting. So I think it's important for women to understand that the more we see ourselves in spaces that are dominated by men… when you see another woman there, it gives you courage so you do it too. Usually, the artists from the favelas are barely remembered.

Even to participate in events. And when they are remembered, it's because of the quota system. I think it's awful.

It's like they're doing us a favor by inviting us. Or it's like we're the exotic animals in a zoo. "Oh, look, that guy from the favela is here.

" As if we weren't capable. As if they were giving us something for free. But they don't fool me.

When there is pixo in a top art gallery, it was due to a fight, a battle. The door had to be kicked open. Pixo is pixo.

It's done in the streets. It's like. .

. That's it. It's unauthorized.

That is pixação. Do you know why people hate pixo and want to destroy pixo? Because they hold all the knowledge.

But. . .

Every social knowledge. They know everything. They.

. . They went to the best schools, the best exchange programs, but when it comes to pixo they're illiterate.

That's why they want to wipe it out. Graffiti is an illegal painting movement. When it's inside an art gallery, it's not graffiti.

What's inside is the recognition of the artist that he might have gotten from graffiting in the streets. I always say that when you do pixo on canvas when you create an artwork on canvas with your pixo you're not doing pixação. You're telling your story.

You're creating an artwork based on your story. In every way. It doesn't matter if it's graffiti, pixação, tags.

. . I think a lot of people do it for fun and a lot of people do it because they know it makes an impact.

It's part of society. The system that we're in today, it ends up segregating, dividing. .

. It ends up separating people. And we weren't made to be separate from each other.

We were made to live in a community. And the walls, they. .

. I think graffiti shows us that. We are taking over your wall.

Your wall is not important to me. It's a gesture that. .

. shows how separatist it is to use concrete blocks so that other people can't reach you. São Paulo is a huge city.

There are lots of favelas, lots of walls. There are a lot of people doing it. There's a lot of pixação, a lot of graffiti, a lot of street art.

You know. São Paulo really influences your work. Like they say: "Graffiting is an urban neurosis.

" You go around the city trying to unload parts of the city on itself. Got it? Trying to interact, to protest.

I don't know. . .

Art is unlimited. It's unlimited. You do whatever you want.

You can use it however you want. São Paulo offers you that. It's an enormous city, a huge city.

A lot of streets. A lot of favelas. I think it's the Mecca of Graffiti.

The capital of Graffiti. There was a project called: "São Paulo: Capital Graffiti" This project distributed paint and everything. It was a project that brought new people to the game.

It gave them the basic tools to paint in the streets. The street art scene is different now. And this kind of movement is natural.

People observe the streets and the artists that stand out. They get more curious about it and start accepting it more. I think that's wonderful.

You work, you love what you do and you're recognized for it. It opens up new possibilities. And all of a sudden you're in a museum, you're in an art gallery, you're in another country.

I had the opportunity to travel to other places, other countries like Europe and here in South America. And São Paulo is the place that wherever you look, there's graffiti, there's pixo, there's something like that. So I think it's a place where Street art is very present.

And from where I stand, São Paulo is the best place to paint in the world. A guy came to me once and said I was a legend because I went to Europe without any money. "Dude, you're a legend around here!

" "The only guy I know who traveled abroad without any money. Traveled around and came back. " "You're an example for us here in the favela.

" I was, you know. . .

I was happy to hear that because I never thought that my work would reach these people like that guy who has nothing to do with art. A guy who doesn't paint or anything. And he identified with something I did.

I think that when you start getting international visibility with pixo just like it happens with music and many other artistic styles then Pixo becomes a topic of interest. Pixo and all street art as well. Like it happened with graffiti in the past.

There's always this moment. Recognition has to come from someone who is usually not from here. Then people start to think and reevaluate it.

But I think this movement took a while to happen. It took about 20 years until it gained the strength it has today. So today we have an art industry.

In that time we didn't even dream of it. The world changed. It was totally different 20 years ago.

Twenty years ago there was no internet. We didn't have access to the internet. Nowadays you paint in the streets and people recognize your work.

They know the artists, they call us they talk to us, tell us their friend is also a graffiti artist. . .

The internet democratized things. Information really got to everyone and today. .

. On one hand it's a good thing that it grew and expanded. There are a lot of amazing people.

So many new and talented artists that grabbed this opportunity, this. . .

already processed thing and it got a lot easier. A blogger who had never done graffiti before, does it now. The college guy who always used oil and a paintbrush, uses spray paint nowadays.

'Cause there's low pressure spray can the cap for thin lines, the cap for thick lines. . .

In the past, having caps was rare. We used the caps that came with the spray cans but you had to adapt them to be able to do certain lines. If you wanted to make it thicker you had to cut a slice of the bottom part of the dip tube.

You opened that a little bit and you had a Fat Cap. Today you have several caps. The access to this material is much easier nowadays.

You can buy it in a graffiti shop. However, the internet and the tools alone won't give you the energy to do it. It's up to you to go after information and be interested.

So it really got wider. And for me it stopped being something. .

. like it was in the '90s, something new. You would see a graffiti made by Os Gêmeos and you would be like "Wow!

" I think that in the '90s, the city had so many pixações, that the new generations had to find a way of fitting in with a scene that was already established. I think the ones who will stand out nowadays are the ones who have something truly original. Because today it's very hard to create something that no one has ever done.

So they start doing it on top of the windows. . .

They start climbing each other. . .

So it's a natural evolution out of the need of these people who were arriving and wanted to be included in this already existing narrative. A guy would see work that was done in the '90s and he started doing pixação in 2000. He would say: "Man!

I need to do a pixo close to these guys'. " "This guys were my reference when I started doing pixação. " "So let's create something.

" "Let's do a three-man-leg up. " "Give it a different finishing, something like that. .

. " And recently, they started doing a lot of climbing. In the '90s we also climbed, but we would climb one or two floors to break in through a window.

If there was a window on the 2nd or 3th floor, you would climb to get to that window, go inside and get to the top. Then they started to climb the windows from the outside to do pixação on the window itself. That was something very remarkable in pixação.

It gave it a tremendous visual impact. And then they started abseiling down. Abseiling down the buildings.

I think those were the most significant changes that happened in the last 30 years. So, this is a wall that Lady got. All these walls on this street.

And she invited her friends to paint. So we came. And we really liked this spot because it's a very peaceful place.

Hardly any cars pass by. It's very isolated. And we had a lot of time to paint peacefully.

We painted here for many days. So we decided to do something nicer. People would come, sit around here and watch us paint.

Actually, this kid here. . .

is a kid that would come over in this Naruto Akatsuki outfit. And. .

. He was always here and always in this suit. What's interesting about this wall is that we painted it during the pandemic.

So everyone was kind of locked up, without leaving the house, and everyone was dying to paint. In fact, I've painted kids in the streets. But the whole deal with kids in my work… I wasn't a father at an early age, you know?

It took me a while to become a father. But my work also has to do with skateboarding. Because I was often at Roosevelt and Roosevelt in the 80s and 90s used to have a small favela under it.

And there was a lot of children selling candy, living on the streets or in favelas. And these kids were my first inspiration and they still inspire me. In fact, the rag doll I paint, came from that situation.

I've never seen those kids with a toy. So I had the idea of painting a doll. .

. and one of these kids playing with a rag doll. And the idea of the rag doll came because my mom always used to say that when she was a child she couldn't afford to buy an industrialized doll.

So, the dolls she had were made of patches. My grandmother would make them. Or an aunt of hers would make one and give it to her.

And she would always say: "You guys are lucky to have toys. " "In my time, I didn't have any. We had to make our own toys.

" And that stuck in my head. So when I decided to create a toy for the character I was painting on the street, I had the idea of painting that rag doll. Graffiti is about letters.

Graffiti is also about characters, you know? Graffiti is the interaction in the streets. The surprise effect.

It's owning it. That is the movement. You're going to feel an adrenaline rush doing it in the streets.

Because you know that shit can go down. So just like the guy who is drawing letters we are drawing characters. But graffiti is also related to letters.

Graffiti is about letters, the study of letters, their style. It has its own style of letters. And then comes the interaction with the characters but those are the roots.

I can paint the most beautiful mural but I really don't think that matters. What really matters to me is the movement I'm doing. Being able to get inside.

. . get inside people's minds.

"We're doing it. We are transforming the neighborhood. " You know?

And I think people see that because of our persistence. And people are like: "Hey, man, what's up? " They used to hate it and now they're like: "Hey man, paint my wall!

That's awesome! " "Wow, cool! I want to do it here!

" "I want to do it for my business! " "Let's talk. That's cool.

" "When you brought your people to paint here, it was awesome! " "Amazing! " So, I think things changed in the sense of… people are being more open to this, to having art closer to them.