Mastering Sales in a Skeptical World | Jeremy Miner

the more pain that you can get the prospect to feel the more they want to change I have got what Inc calls the number one fastest growing sales company in the world the unique use of Behavioral Science and human psychology sales world has already transformed we need to catch up 3x 5x even 10x their sales results his training is transformed everything most salespeople have been trained to view selling as adversarial you against the prospect trying to win them over manipulate them pressure them so you make money but that's what average salespeople do that's why they

don't make that much money you're non-verbal and your verbal skills are 73 of sale how do I do that then nobody knows how to teach the right tone anytime a prospect feels or they hear certain words or tone that they've heard from other sales people they're instantly going into survival mode trying to get rid of you human beings will always buy from the sales person or the company who they feel understands them the most if you want to be a top one percent earning salesperson you want to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year

in commissions if not more as a W-2 or 109 salesperson you have to what's going on Wealth Builders today I have got what Inc calls the number one fastest growing sales company in the world I've got the head of it they have trained almost half a million sales people have done some crazy things I've got none other than Jeremy Miner what's up man hey you know thanks for having me on I appreciate just watch the show the last couple weeks and stuff started following you on IG so well done I like your stuff man thanks

for having me on the having me on the show yeah I'm excited to have you on and probably all of our sales is going to tell everybody though well sometimes only only when like I actually am because sometimes people come on and I'm like I don't know why you're on but let's find out right but the reason I'm excited is because a lot of our sales guys follow you oh do they okay and yeah they they love your tactics they love just everything you teach and all that stuff and truthfully I've always been a pretty

good sales guy naturally but I've gone through no sales training so like I just kind of wing it and try and make deals and that's how how do you wing it like when you say you wing it what does that mean dude I literally like this podcast I walk into this podcast and there's no set agenda or questions we're just gonna wing it you're just gonna wing it man interesting that's an interesting uh interesting plan there yeah there is no plan there is no plan the plan is we're gonna talk and I'm gonna try and

learn as much as I I can and you know see where it goes let's do it brother yeah what do you want to know well you know my guys tell me that your methodology for sales is the best period why did they say that I don't know why there's a lot of methodologies out there there is and I've had a lot of guys on here um I've had Grant Cardone I've had Andy Elliot I've had Brad Lee I've had yeah all these guys who teach different methodologies yeah for sure um and I've gone through just

Sandler um who we were talking about before um I've been trained by people well I haven't been trained but our company Sanders the Big Daddy man they started in 1971 long before any of us were born in here yeah but I think before getting into what exactly you teach yeah I mean how did you even get to training almost half a million sales people like what was your path why why do you have the credibility to do so well you know I so I got started in in selling 22 years ago I was broke burned

out college student and I got my first job actually selling home security systems door-to-door you ever sold door-to-door never it's an interesting experience if it's actually been very profitable if you know what you're doing if you're not you're gonna get smacked around I should say I have because I have door knocked homeowners to try and get a deal with real estate okay so you've done a little bit a little bit so got my first job home security systems and it's like in these summer programs I went to school in Utah Utah Valley University and that's

the Hub that is the Hub door to door like it's the Hub of door-to-door it's like pest control companies solar alarms like vacuum cleaners like anything that's sold door-to-door like the Hub is right there it's amazing but you got all the Mormon missionaries sure that's all they did ldsman shares yeah for sure and that's me I was you know LDS went on my mission and stuff came back you know and I'm like oh what am I going to do you already prepped for I'm like what am I gonna do like now I got to make

money you know I'm like 21 I got to make money so I was going to school and so my friend comes in he's like hey man there's this this pizza party like free pizza you know you can make all this money in the summer selling these alarms and it's really easy I'm like okay free pizza so I walk in and basically there's 100 people in the room and everybody gets hired so it's one of those jobs straight commission so like they just take whoever wants to do it right right and so they basically give you

a script and they give you a couple books by the sales gurus you know that you know that have been around for 50 years who was the guru's back then oh geez well I there's no social media so you're just reading books yeah books so I you know I I and I love all these people I always respect everyone that that has come before me because I always think there's everybody's strengths and weaknesses right like nobody's perfect so you know like Tom Hopkins and and some of those people so you'd read their books and and

I still like they would drive you out in a van basically door-to-door and they basically kick they don't let you drive it by yourself because you're not gonna go out you know you're just gonna go to McDonald's and hang out all day right and so they drive you out in a van they basically kick you out of the van they're like hey go make some sales we'll pick you up after dark it's going to be easy and I still remember this I was thinking about this before I got here I looked back at my sales

manager because I was the last one to be dropped off and I was like terrified I'm like oh my gosh you know on this 20 21 year old kid and his name was xania this curly blonde hair and he's like Jeremy remember when you knock on the door show them your enthusiasm show them how excited you are about the product and that you believe in it and they're gonna believe it and I'm like that makes sense if I believe in the product if I show them I'm excited then somehow they're going to be excited so

I started knocking on the doors talking about my features and benefits and how we had the best this and we were the number one this and it was going to help him with this and it was going to do all this stuff I noticed I started getting all these objections from the very first store we don't need it uh your price is too high we already talked with somebody from your company oh alarms I've got a dog or oh you know let me think it over I need to do more research you know can you

call me back in a week a month a year later right right you know what I'm talking about yep and so I remember I finally got to this point probably about seven to eight weeks in of like all non-stop rejection you're working like in the summer programs you work like 12 12 hours a day and it's six days a week it's like you know Sunday's your day off and I remember like sitting on a curve like one late I think it's like a Friday or Saturday night and like you know you got the you got

the hot humid humidity so like sun you know so like you're sweating through your shirt your legs if you ever knocked door-to-door 12 hours straight they're like jello okay I haven't done that okay anybody that anybody watching us right now or listening to us if you've done door-to-door you know what I'm talking about and I remember I remember feeling like I'd made zero sales that day so straight commission zero sales means zero dollars in fact that week I made zero sales so I'd work like 60 hours and made nothing I could have made more minimum

wage at Wendy's or something and so I remember sitting there thinking like you know maybe selling you know maybe selling just wasn't for me you know like maybe I just wasn't born a salesperson type of thing and I remember when the manager picked me up that day he popped in a Tony Robbins CD that like completely changed my viewpoint of selling anything and I know 22 years ago like people listen to these like round things called CDs it's really weird you know to talk about and Tony said something like this I could be butchering it

but he said you will fail like you will fail if you don't learn the right skills necessary to succeed you will fail for simply not learning the right skills now he goes on to saying there that everyone is taught skills but the people who fail are the ones who are not taught the right ones and it like when I heard that I don't know what happened but it was like a light bulb moment it was like I'd say divine intervention from the heavens that there were differences in skill levels I mean as a 21 year

old kid you just don't really think about it right that there's some skills that give you a much greater result than other skills well I mean when you're in the school system growing up it's it's all about everyone learns the same exact skills you know hey we got to do math if you're a little better at math then you can go to the next level of math but hey these are the basic skills everyone needs to be a good member of society yeah so they don't teach you sales or business or money to balance a

checkbook or anything yeah you don't have to write a checkup I remember getting to college I'm like Mom I I how do I open up a bank account it's completely lost and so I I kind of you know at that point I was like I'm gonna have to acquire these skills like I didn't have a choice at that point I'm just like what am I going to do like I have to do something I have to make money and so at the same time I was doing that my major like I was telling you before

was Behavioral Science and human psychology so you were going to school while you were trying to sell yeah because you'd only sell in the Summers those summer programs you'd sell for like four months it'd be like the end of April when school got out to like September 1st right and you just try to make as much money as you can as like a bull run yeah and then the other that was their whole pitch make a ton of money in the summer so you can focus companies do when you do they just expect people to

quit college because they're making so much money and eventually you do you know I I got up so you know I was making like 100 Grand a month so what do you do why would you go back to school obviously not so when I first started I sucked right but so I got into this so you know I'm learning Behavioral Science at the same time for my professors and I'm learning from my professors that the most persuasive way to communicate is over here because baby Behavioral Science I won't give the scientific terms for it but

it's really the study of the brain and how human beings make decisions why did they go left instead of going right by just seeing that sign what causes what inputs in their brain that forces them to go that way or why do they say no instead of yes which is really selling 101 it's really persuasion right I find it so interesting that really hardly any sales trainers really understand the way the brain makes decisions I mean you should kind of know that right if you're going to be a sales person or sister and you're going

to be really successful and so my professors were saying the most persuasive way to communicate was here one of them is Robert caldin who I just told you about wrote the book persuasion uh you know influence those are huge books he's a leading behavior of science scientists here in the U.S and I was learning social dynamics and all those things now the sales gurus in their books they were saying the most persuasive way to communicate was here so you're talking about exact opposite right so talk about 21 year old kid you're like they're saying it's

here gurus are saying it's here so I'm like how okay I'm like how do I because I'd you know I'd use some of these techniques and make a few sales here and there but it's more of a numbers game right it's like the harder I worked I'd made more sales just out of pure numbers because I'd find easier people to sell right and so I'm like how do I how do I take what I'm learning from Behavioral Science because it wasn't like there were sales training programs with the right questions to ask with the right

tone with the right time and how to probe and clarifying how to get the prospect to open up emotionally like that's not taught it's more like Theory and little tips and techniques and also wasn't it just like your company is your sales trainer that's kind of it but I was always a person that always went the opposite way from what everybody said was the right way I don't know what it was like something I was born with or something but I would like somebody would say do this and be like why yeah why should I

do that like maybe I should do this so I was always questioning everything that what people were taught me because I'm like maybe there's a better way I was always thinking like what how do I do this better than anybody else has maybe done it before if that makes sense and so I you know I'm like how do I take this theory of Behavioral Science and wrap it into a step-by-step sales structure with the right questions with the right tone and that's what I started doing I started learning techniques and certain questions and how to

use my tone that worked with human behavior rather than work against it and all of a sudden you know talking about within a few weeks I was getting my prospects like I was telling you earlier to do all the work I was learning how to get them to sell themselves I was getting them to overcome their own objections I was getting them to pull me in whereas the gurus are saying you got to do all the work you got to do all the selling you got to do all the hustle muscle you gotta you know

selling is a numbers game you gotta push and pressure and overnight selling became so we're getting prospects to you know basically do the work themselves does it just simply come from well I know it's not simple but does it come from asking them the right questions versus just telling them you need to do this thing well I'll ask you this if you are asking me the right if I'm a salesperson if I'm a salesperson okay most salespeople say hey let me ask you a question and then ask the question right but how do how does

a prospect view that yeah you need to say can I ask you a question it's like you're you're plowing them over especially with an a-type personality what you're going to do psychologically with an A type is you're going to trigger resistance because you're like whoa you didn't ask me permission but if I simply lean in like hey can I can I ask you something see how my tone is a curious tone your tone is how your prospects interpret the intention behind what you're saying or asking right so my tone if it's a curious tone they're

interpreting that like oh he's generally curious and they're always like yeah what's going on but if I'm like hey let me ask you a question and then I just ask right it's like what they do most of times they stay surface level and they'll give you vague or generalized answers because they feel like you're trying to sell them with that question whereas when I'm asking with a curious Talent they generally feel I'm genuinely curious whole different way of looking at communication yeah a bunch of boring stuff no I love it and and the people who

watch this podcast I mean they're all entrepreneurs a lot of them are sales people yeah um we've got a lot of people who just have sales jobs and they want to learn real estate and so they're making a ton of money and they want to invest it we train a lot of a lot of people that that are in your industry that like you know go out and try to get homes you know buy them for like smaller amounts like wholesaling you know flipping them short term long-term subdue all that kind of stuff for sure

love that industry it's great industry no it is amazing industry and great for all these sales guys who don't know what to do with all the money they're making valid yeah that's valid that's one of the things that I've seen is uh you know I got asked to speak at a door-to-door event it's funny and I was like why do you want me to speak at a door-to-door event I don't do door-to-door like I'm not one of these guys sure you know yeah and they're like well all these guys are making a ton of money

selling solar and yeah whatever they're selling and yeah they don't know what to do with it yeah you could tell them what to do with it yeah I was like ah yeah no it's true like you know back in the day the pace skills are much larger in like alarms than they used to be when I was selling I mean you're talking about 20 years ago and even solar solar is one of the biggest crazy would you say that's like the biggest one I'd say the two okay this might get me in trouble so we

train 158 different Industries okay we have sales people in those industries that you know make 30 grand a month 50 Grand a month 80 grand a month 100 Grand a month plus and a ton of those Industries right so by me saying the couple of Industries I see the biggest results from does not mean everybody out there the disclaimer disclaimer that the other Industries are not amazing but two of the biggest industries because we have an Insider's view because when we when we see testimonies and stuff from our clients from different Industries we kind of

we keep track of all this yeah you're like wow there's a lot of people yeah so like the two biggest industries where we see the most money made are solar yep in life insurance and a lot of people are like life insurance like you got to go bug your friends and family no not necessarily you get leads you get leads of people looking for you know mortgage protection you know they pass away their mortgage gets protected or you know our mortgage gets paid off you've got final expense insurance I mean there's some I mean would

you say that billions of dollars both of those Industries obviously are massive Industries right so it's like they're not Niche they're very huge and I always find like you know because one of the a big industry we train as well as like high ticket stuff yeah and all these high ticket people and I love them uh one of the four Industries I sold in was high ticket at the very end before I uh retired and started seven level but they're all like they think that high ticket is like the biggest injury like it's a three

billion dollar industry and I'm like dude life insurance is like a three trillion dollar industry like you guys are playing chat like you you know you're you're playing checkers like they're playing chess like it's huge would you say that solar I mean obviously it's a huge industry both of them yeah compared to direct response or whatever sure um but would you say that these guys are making so much money because of their own sales or because they're building down lines in those Industries it depends when I say that we have clients like let's say in

life insurance that make 50 100 Grand a month I'm not talking about people that are just building downlines so we have people building Downs that make three four million dollars a year I'm talking about individual sales people that are just quite literally selling just they're just one on one selling we got solar sales people that go door to door that make 150 Grand a month just selling now they'll have a couple appointment Setters that set up appointments and they go around like bam bam yeah they're building their little team but they're on a little team

they'll have like two appointment Setters but they're the ones in their closing I mean we've got you know we like power solar it's the largest solar company in the United States they did like 800 Million last year I mean they're massive massive companies um but it's just you know it's just it's a huge industry and solar's obviously not going anywhere no it ain't good it's only going to keep getting better so going back to the story I mean you you work for this company you're 21 years old you start realizing hey I don't know that

I believe the status quo of how to sell yeah yeah and what happens well see I just realized like I'm I'm you know I always say this like I'm no one famous I'm just a person who very early on decided that if I wanted to get to a much higher level financially in my life and I'm in sales that I can't sell the way everybody else is selling I can't stand I get the same result because I'm going to get the same the average salesperson North America makes 57 000 a year so I can't stay

in the status quo I had to acquire a much more advanced sales ability so I learned very quickly that I couldn't do what everybody else is doing so how did you learn so I learned from Behavioral Science human psychology so I started learning techniques that would work with human behavior that got my prospects to let their guard down and pull me in and like I said overnight selling became very very would you say that that is you know this NLP type stuff or no I mean I like NLP um I would say it's completely it's

a lot different NLP is more like speakers use it on stage and they'll be like what is an LP for those I I don't even really know I just know like Tony Robbins linguistic programming yeah so they'll get up there and some of it works like you'll see Tony like I can every time Tony like goes in and does things you're gonna notice he uses verbal pauses verbal cues it's all for psychological reasons a lot of people can't see that like I go like I watch them on YouTube I'm like okay right there he just

verbal pause there and that caused that lady to cry like emotionally what's a verbal pause so verbal pause is like if I'm saying like okay but why why look at this now see between look and now I pause two seconds okay but I'm not understanding like why why look at this now though that verbal pause in a human brain causes you to actually think deeper about what I just asked you if I said well why look at this now though it's in one ear out the other is too fast yeah so verbal pausing like I'll

give you an example like Tony Robbins does a lot of verbal pauses I'm not into politics and everybody has their sides or whatever I'm kind of like right in the middle I just focus on sales training like I'm just in the middle you guys fight it out but somebody it was really really good at communicating was President Obama and when you heard him speak he was really good at verbal pausing yeah slowing his voice down in his tone and he would say he would say sentence and he would stop like three or four seconds and

then keep talking and people are like oh Great Communicator so is Tony Robbins verbal cues or sounds out of your mouth like if you're sitting here talking to me and I'm sitting here uh-huh ah right now you're not gonna do that every two seconds I'm exaggerating but every 10 12 seconds it shows the prospect that you're present in the conversation and when they feel heard they feel understood and human beings emotionally attach to people who feel understand them the most human beings will always buy from the sales person or the company who they feel understands

them the most and so just by using verbal cues uh-huh right oh I see but if I've just sit here like this yeah are you just shaking your head I don't feel like I understand you right it's just like if you know if you're you know if you're married right and you're you're sitting there talking to your wife and you're really present in that conversation she feels that you understand her right so she emotionally bonds with you so what you're doing the same thing in sales but sales people for some reason it's like transactional like

here's what I always say like if you want to be a top one percent earning salesperson you want to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in commissions if not more even if you want to make multiple seven figures a year in commissions as a W-2 or 10-9 salesperson you have to view selling as collaborative it's you working with the prospect to help them find and solve problems they didn't even know they had most salespeople have been trained to view selling as adversarial you against the prospect trying to win them over manipulate them pressure

them so you make money but that's what average sales people do that's why they don't make that much money right they have to pay the number first game now I always I always this is my thing you know people are gonna be like no it really is but when I hear sales trainers say like and I'm Not Crying by the way I actually have dry syndrome oh really you know when I go to do Keynotes I tell everybody like it Envision like now if I pull out a Kleenex and I wipe my eyes off it's

not because I'm crying even though I love you it's because I have dry syndrome and my puncture plugs are closed so I have tear ducts that don't work very well and so when I hear sales trainers say that oh selling is a numbers game like just work harder call more leads get more no's that's going to lead you to a yes I'm like how does that give you any competitive Advantage as a salesperson basically what they just told you is well my training doesn't really work that well so you're just going to have to work

harder sorry you know so in my mind selling is a Skills game yeah we talked about that with business a lot too it's like yo if you want to increase your Revenue yeah you either can re increase your conversion AKA get better at sales or you do more volume yeah like but if you do both yeah you're gonna do really exactly it's like marketing right so marketing you're always trying to get your lead custom or you should but if you're like oh it's just this it said the numbers game but just spend as much as

we can eventually you're going to go out of business right right the sales people don't look at that and it's not their fault that's what they've been forced to to believe it's not their fault but it is their problem right and so selling is a Skills game yeah focusing on each conversation and the quality that comes so I started learning that when I was on the doors I'm like all these other people are going through the doors knocking 200 Doors a day I'm like I want to talk with seven people and I want to sell

four yeah and I'm gonna Focus like I'm gonna work on conversion conversation that way I don't have to work 12 hours a day I can work six and make four times more than anybody else right and so it's it's kind of like this analogy like if you're you like basketball guys Steph Curry yep okay Curry what would have happened if Steph Curry thought basketball was a numbers game hey it's just a numbers game just shoot as many threes as you can I mean you'll hit one here and there yeah if you thought it was a

numbers game he would have never made his high school basketball team no Steph Curry he'd use basketball as a Skills game so he's focused on his technique and improving his technique day in and day out imagine what sales people would be like how successful companies and business owners would scale if each salesperson was focused on the skill of each conversation rather than going through the numbers first of all it drastically reduces your lead cost because you don't have to have as many leads yeah you're if you can convert twice if you can double your conversions

from the same amount of leads it's just crazy to think about but everybody sales is a number game number game just blah blah blah blah and I'm like no it's a Skills game you want to make a lot of money it's a Skills game right just different just different way to look at it yeah you know what's interesting is across all of my businesses and we're in multiple different Industries and you know each time we've tried to scale like marketing spend and stuff there's always like a decrease in conversion right it doesn't ever proportionally do

it yeah and you know my theory is you know the sales guys end up getting more leads obviously and then they do less follow-up they just trying to get through them all numbers yeah yeah so they they go from quality to hey let's get through the quantity quantity it's yeah as a business owner you want to focus on on the quality of each conversation because that's where you're going to make the most profit margin for sure 100 yeah hey if you're looking to grow your real estate investing business whether you're just getting started trying to

get your first deal or you're trying to scale and get to the next level you need to join us at wealthy investor we've got events every single quarter that are absolutely crazy we've got online coaching programs where we have zoom calls a community every single week we give you everything you need to know to start your business scripts processes Sops all of it it's for you so that you can dominate so if you want to learn more about how to join our community and be mentored by me and some of our top coaches and be

around other students who are absolutely crushing it go to wealthyinvestor.com apply for a free call with my team once again wealthyinvestor.com apply for a call today so you end up learning how to do all you know this these sales techniques and you're getting better over the years and then you start working for other companies along the way yeah I was in four different Industries so I got out of alarm arm sale so I was making about 100 Grand a month that but you only do it four months a year so you make 400 Grand but

it's 400 Grand 22 years old yeah so my senior year so I never actually graduated college I have 11 credits left I walked out my last semester of school because I'm like what am I doing I made 400 000 like 450 000 last summer my professor that's teaching me business yeah you know probably made a third of is making a third of that right so I just kind of walked out it's like I know I'm going to be in sales I'm going to be in sales leadership like there's what what am I doing I'm just

wasting my time and so after I did that I got into B2B sales selling like a high-end debt relief services to more SMB some Enterprise level companies okay uh got up to it says on my bio but I got up to about about three million dollars a year in commissions that was nice but I was working year-round yeah what would you say is the difference because I've talked to a lot of Enterprise sales guys and BME guys yeah and I've never been in that world I've always been in the b2c world sure um what what's

the difference when you're selling that yeah there is a difference like luckily for me it helps our clients because out of the four Industries I sold in two were b2c two were B2B so I understand the nuances I just I just understand so B2B it's a longer sales cycle now that doesn't mean you have to be as long as most salespeople cyclist because the reason why it's so long is because they don't know how to build a gap from where the prospect is we call that their current state to where they want to be we

call that their objective State the Gap can only be built by you the salesperson with your question ability and your tone that causes the prospect to find problems in their mind they didn't even think they had right so in B2B you're not going in for like a one call close like if you're selling what you're doing right now like you know you're selling like a let's say a real estate training program you might have somebody that triages them sets them up with a closer and then that's it it's a one call kind of like well

almost two call close but pretty much a one called close yeah that's most b2c there are some b2cs two call close but B to B especially if you're selling Enterprise some sales Cycles depending on the price of what you're doing could be 18 months you know we train a company called OC uh otoc Tanner which is they only they they do like they come in and they they build culture in Enterprise companies so they will only take a client on if they have at least 10 000 employees God like they don't mess with the small

stuff and you're talking about billions of dollars how to build culture and companies and awards so they don't lose their top Executives to competing companies I mean you're talking huge industry but they have an 18-month Silo cycle we took them down to about nine months wow but a lot of it was because they just were like going to meeting after meeting lunch after lunch just bsing and it was like they never knew how to build a gap to where these companies really wanted to be so he's trying a lot of medical device sales companies got

it Sims like that so Pharmaceuticals we do that so it's really about shortening the sales cycle and understanding how to get to other decision makers and influencers in that organization because of b2c you're talking to the man or woman decision maker right maybe the spouse maybe just one person one lager as we called them in alarms or two people but in B2B you're talking I'm not talking really SMB you might only have one you gotta go talk to the CMO yes it depends on what you do yeah and here's the thing that most most sales

people don't understand that transition from B to C to B to B is they'll get on with the c-level executive and that sea level executive says oh I'm the decision maker but that's not reality true Forbes Magazine said the average the average size company right I'm talking about Enterprise the average size company has 6.7 decision makers and or influencers that decide on every vendor 6.7 so if you don't know how to navigate in that organization and ask the right questions to find out who the other decision makers are and you can't ask a lot of

b2b6 will be like who's who's the other decision makers besides you who's the actual person yeah and you can't do that because it's too abrupt and most people will try to push you back because they try to protect everybody else right okay but if I'm like who so let's say that this you know x y let's say we're selling SAS or you know some software let's say XYZ software gets installed who else does this impact in your organization see that's kind of a way around that where I'm basically asking them who the other decision makers

are but I'm saying let's say that we come in here and we do XYZ and install this who else does this impact right in the organization and like well we know the CTO is going to want to know about it and so now I'm like okay he might not be decision-making but he's going to influence this yeah and so and you it would be still got to get him on board exactly with B2B you have to you have to figure out what motivates them because for the sea level executive they might not be motivated by

company Revenue profit like the CEO is they might be motivated because they want to get promoted in the organization so you have to understand it there's all these different layouts that's why they call it complex selling so you have to understand the different layers of that company and what motivates each influencer because let's say that you're selling software cyber security and the CTO has is not a person you've met yet but you know they're going to influence that and they can't make the decision on it but you know they're going to influence it because maybe

they feel that the co is going to look down at them because now they had to bring this outside vendor in to do their job so they might try to Nix that deal even though it would solve massive problems for the company it might make living look bad it might make them not get promoted it might look that like they're a bad department head leader so there's all these things that you have to be able to navigate if you don't you just get punched in the face pretty quick yeah but you can make I mean

even in b2c you know I sold in b2c as well as making you know over 2 million dollars a year in commission so it's all about human behavior and getting the prospects to emotionally attach their needs to actually wanting to solve something let me can I ask can I ask you something Ryan okay DJ voice I like I liked your tone the playful voices it was very curious you know another person to really follow that understands human behaviors Chris Voss you ever split the difference yep yeah so he'll talk if you read if you listen

to his audio he'll talk about how you can influence with your voice most sales people just everybody's taught and say I was like oh you're you're non-verbal and your verbal skills are 73 of sale well okay well how do I do that then nobody knows how to teach the right tone and so um so with with tonality it's like there's I always say there's three types of tone I'm gonna get back to that question I want to ask you so there's three types of tone there's that curious tone where you're like okay and I think

you uh you also do like social media like uh teach people how to do social media yep so let's say that you're talking to a small business owner one of my first questions would be called what we call situation question so I might lean in with a curious tone State now maybe walk me through what do you guys do now to generate new leads and clients just so I have more context see that's a curious tone okay they interpret my intention of that question it's like oh they're asking me like what do I do now

to generate new leads and Clan and so they open up there's other questions in that sales process that require more of a skeptical or challenging tone now you can't have a skeptical and challenging tone in the first couple minutes of a conversation because you haven't you don't have any trust or credit on the right exactly but if I get three-fourths of the way into that Discovery call I might lean in and ask what we call a consequence question that gets them to defend themselves notice how I'm getting them to do the work defend themselves on

why they need to change and why they need to change now rather than push it down the road so I might lean back what are the ramifications if you don't do anything about this so what happens if you don't do anything about this and you keep getting these lower quality leads to your people and sales keep going down what would happen to your job at that point then I'd go into a concern time so I start off skeptical like getting them on that emotional high and I end with a concern tone and they interpret that

as he's concerned for me that I might lose my job and so that emotionally opens them up example there no no that's good so what what were you going to ask me does anybody out there know what I was going to ask Ryan I don't know I can't remember let's keep talking it'll come up riding a bike it'll come back to me yeah so you know you start the or you know you do this for you said 20 years like working for other people yeah so I had a 17-year sales career yeah and I retired

in 2017. okay took a year off I didn't know what I was going to do I also invested in real estate a bunch of Airbnb properties okay I heard you have like 500. that's insane man yeah we've got cheese I'm not even close here I'm trying to catch up with you man well we do syndications so I need to go on a program yeah sign me up there you go sign me up I'll ask you the right question so why do you want more airbnbs so why what would you do so why look at this

now like why not push it down the road like unsuccessful investors would exactly see consequence okay but why look at this see starting off my what challenging why look at doing this now like why not push it down the road like unsuccessful companies would well the reason why we need to do it now is see how I'm getting them to do the work let me it's so much easier to sell so just peaceful I want to know how seventh level started but yeah to go under your point it's funny because my sales guys yeah they

laugh at me because my selling technique is more I would guess authoritative and it's just like guys like if you follow me for a while like what are you doing like let's roll sure and it's just straight to the point but to the point of we've built up trust for so many videos and hours yeah exactly your sales people did that no they'd be in the face yeah yeah right and so we actually have um a trainer coming today actually um teaching us about how to sell better at events and everything else yeah from stage

right from stage and he was talking about a concept you just mentioned of like hey they're here today and you know you got to get them here before you can ever build a gap yep and he called it the gradient you have to go up the gradient to get there yeah and um you know one thing that I've thought a lot about now is the gradient because I've always been like straight to the point I'm like you need to do this like and he's like you got to stop using these you statements yeah need because

that comes across as an it it actually I mean you have you have the brand right so you can kind of get away with it right there's there's things that he's going to show you that will Elevate that yeah because when you say you need to do this they're interpreting that coming from you it's your opinion and nobody gives a rat's right about your opinion they don't care about themselves and what made me think about it was what you just did in your example of like well if you know unsuccessful investors would wait and push

it off yeah and that's kind of what he was saying too can I give you a question to use okay I'll help you out so you know which is more risky for you guys is it more risky for you guys to get the funding together you automatically log into the portal you acquire the skills you start investing in properties next week or is it more risky for you guys to do nothing at all staying in the status quo the problems stay the same and nothing ever changes which is more risky exactly see that's it's another

Gap question and so you slow down that tone I mean and here's what here's the body language that you have to use that so let's say you're on stage you use your hands like if you're on Zoom or a person use your hands when you're selling too so you guys tell me like which is more risky for you now notice I'm going into that concern tone I'm concerned for them which I am because here's the thing everybody in that that's watching you has problems right right Your solution solves those problems it's going to get them

the result they want but it's how we communicate that to them that's gonna you know get them so you guys tell me like in your mind which is more risky for you is it more risky for you guys to get the funding together and yo so get the funding together you log into the portal you start getting trained and you're doing deals in two weeks from now like you're making money yeah or is it more risky for you to do nothing at all the problem stays the same you keep looking out there for ways to

do this and you keep losing money and nothing ever changes which is more risky or you can even say which is more expensive and do the same thing which is more expensive and do the same thing and it's funny because I I tell people that with my story you know the the one minute story is back in 2015 I flipped my first house okay and you know I had saved up 10 grand yeah and that was a lot yeah and I still needed you know 40 Grand to go in sure get a down payment and

flip it and all this stuff so I said you know what I'm just gonna max out all my credit cards yeah and get the money yeah and so I maxed them out and you know the flip worked out and made 25 Grand but the story I always tell because this actually did go through my mind was that what's more risky is it more risky for me to not do this yeah and then just keep staying with the status quo and like I know what it is going to be yeah what you have now yeah or

do I take a shot and if it works then dude this is going to be amazing yeah if it doesn't work yeah I still learned a ton and maybe I broke even or in the worst case let's just say everything hit the fan and went wrong yeah and I lose the house or something I don't know yeah I mean I was so young that it was like all right whatever like I I go bankrupt yeah and then in a year I'm back yeah so to me there was no like to do nothing was the far

bigger risk yeah 100 see it's at risky which is more risky which is more expensive and it gets them to see like oh my gosh it's so much more expensive if I don't do this right so now it's their idea see that's called internal persuasion so most sales training teaches you to push and pressure and it's your idea but the problem is as soon as that process aspect as soon as you leave their house you leave Zoom you leave the phone you leave the event because it was your idea and you forced it on them

yeah that's why so many sales people have high chargebacks high cancellations you know they'll sell solar and it you know it's a month to get installed and half of them cancel yeah it's because they're externally persuaded and external persuasion wears off it's just like if you go to a motivational seminar and you get really pumped up and you're like yeah I'm Gonna Change the World and then you come back three days later your thinking goes back to the same because you didn't internally persuade yourself so internal persuasion we call internal tension is much different than

sales pressure sales pressure is you force it on internal tension is asking you know just a few of those questions there's more to it but just give an example but asking those questions with the tone that causes a prospect to internalize their own answers you're like the facilitator taking them on this journey you're like just leading them I'm not telling you what to do exactly if you come to the conclusion that this is good for you yeah but that's going to be based on how I lead yeah it's how you do it so it's it's

it the prospect feels like they have full control but in all reality who has control you do right because you're the facilitator you're taking the most on this journey and they feel comfortable about it they actually feel and so you get them to feel so much internal tension by creating this Gap from where they are like I said we call that their current state to where they want to be we call that their objective State now what's the Gap the Gap in between is determined by your question ability that helps the prospect find problems they

didn't realize they have and this is one thing that I always tell to sales people most of your prospects when you initially first start talking to them don't even realize they have a problem now they might think they have a problem but they don't really understand the depth of the problem am I right it's like Steve Jobs says most people don't know what they need right I have to show them what they don't know yeah your prospects I tell you even if they show up on a booked inbound call on Zoom or in person they

know they kind of have a problem they don't know the depth or how bad it is they don't understand the consequences of what happens if they don't do anything about solving that problem and once you learn Advanced questioning uh you know not only like we help sales people not only find one problem yeah but we help them find two or three or four or maybe five other problems the prospect didn't realize they had which built such a massive Gap in their mind that they feel so much internal tension that they want to change what's the

biggest driver of change in a human being it's pain yeah right pain drives change you always hear like no pain no sale I mean it's a good gimmick but like what does that mean how do you get the prospect to feel pain just because you have a bunch of questions doesn't mean the prospect's just going to open up and tell you everything because they know what you're doing so now you're getting me thinking of how I how to say so can I ask you a question but I'm the podcast host so it's implied can I

um can I ask you something even saying can I ask you a question will sales people say that but if you just change the word can I ask you something yeah it's just different and it comes in in a different manner with a pro yeah what's going on right so my question is with I'm a marketing guy by Nature I mean sure obviously marketing and sales go hand in hand but for me I'm like well if I do a good job of marketing it makes the sale way easier it does so because there's more trust

yeah right there to trust you they see you when I when I Market do you think that it's better to make people realize they have a problem in the marketing or is it better to you know Market the reward and the upside and the cool things like because we know that like you just said pain is going to get people to be it's a much higher emotional driver than reward exactly it just is doesn't mean you can't throw in rewards right or should you know the mar like I know when you get to the sale

you're going for the pain yeah but on the marketing side what do you think there's two things you like I said in every sales situation or every I believe a marketing situation because we do all of our marketing internal in-house now and since we've done that two years ago we just went like this right instead of outside agencies just in our brand which you just went like that and so even in marketing we're helping see the pro we're helping the prospect find problems that they might not realize they had so I might get on there

and I don't do it in a high-ish voice I do it like a regular voice like I'm just training right because it lowers people's guards because they're used to everybody get on there like a hype man like you know excited and stuff so you sound like everybody else I want to sound different so what I'm doing in there is I'm I'm seeding doubt in their mind so I might say are you instead of instead of me saying are you sure you're asking the right questions I'm saying are you a hundred percent sure you're asking the

right questions now it's hard for somebody to say I'm a hundred percent sure but if I said are you sure look yeah I'm asking another question I'm sure yeah but if I just throw in that little 100 sure that seeds doubt like well maybe I'm not 100 sure maybe only 99 sure so see I just seeded that little thing in there it's just kind of an example like see you see things into their mind right that they might not have thought before like when I'm doing a keynote one way that I help identify with the

office because they you know with with the audience because they'll get up there and they're like You know Jeremy Miner one of the wealthiest paid commission only sales people in the world made all this money blah blah well now they're like look up well he can do it he must have been born that way like oh well you know so I go out there and I have to like go down like in a hero's journey you know like Russell Brunson would talk about and like lower myself to the left because that's where I was at

probably way below anybody in the audience they probably made World War one that was and so I'll go and they're like you know I'll say like have you ever looked at your bank account and you notice you had more going out yeah than coming in yeah that's where I was at and everybody's like yeah yeah it's me yeah see after I do them here's your end of his reality it was true and so I have to identify with the audience to know that you know I always say this you know if I'm on stage of

like hey raise your hand if you were born out of your mother's womb with Advanced questioning skills and everybody's like no I'm like oh so you weren't a born salesperson raise your hand if you were born out of your mother's womb with Advanced tonality skills everybody's like raise your hand if you were born with Advanced objection handling and prevention skills everybody's like Stone Cold that you see selling is an acquired skill it's a learned skill I was actually going to ask you that if like do you think anyone can become a great salesperson is it

a born obviously people have natural Talent so I don't know about that okay you know when sales people say like you know I remember I was doing this big keynote for a big pest control company a couple months ago in Charlotte and this guy's still he's like I'm a natural-born salesperson I got the gift of the Gap and he was brand new it's for interns they've just been hired he's like I got the gift of the gab and I'm like that could be trouble yeah because the more you talk the more you're you're the less

you're going to sell right because you go over the product you sound like a salesperson the best sales people in the world the ones who make millions of dollars a year in Commissions in any industry are the ones who hardly talk at all yeah who are in control by using their tone and asking questions that get the prospect to internalize their situation and why they've allowed the problem to still happen and want to do something about it that's where the sale is made it's not even made in a closing line like so many sales people

like well how do I close what's the best closing line I'm like well I can give you some closing lines but it's not like the prospect decides they're going to buy because you say do you want the red car or the blue car yeah that's not when they decide they are if they say I want the red one that's because they'd already decided from the discovery part of the conversation yeah now the funny thing is so when I was going on seller appointments to buy houses yeah stuff yeah um I learned that early on that

dude I just asked questions yeah and I would guess that it was probably like 90 10. they talk ninety percent of the time I talk ten yeah and so I taught all my sales guys that too I'm like guys you gotta ask the right questions like you're not you don't just make an offer you know you gotta ask and figure out what's going on why do they even want to sell their house yeah you know what's what's going to happen what's driving the need because in your industry it could be a divorce yep let's say

that you know one of the one of the spouses lose their jobs now they can't afford the mortgage the interest rate goes up now they can't afford it it could be a landlord who has tenants that just don't pay and now they want to retire and move down to their see their kids in Florida their grandkids in Florida but they're stuck here because the tenants don't pay and they're going to do all this work so you're exactly right it's not just finding why they want to do it but it's finding out what's behind the why

yeah that's where most salespeople don't know where to go and like I said it's not their fault there's never been trained how to do it when do you get into a term I've heard called like picture perfect like I guess maybe future pacing of like hey yeah we do this yeah like what so that's getting them to see what their objective state is yeah so you can't just help the prospect find all these problems where they're wallowing in pain and not be able to help them see what the future is going to look like once

the problems are solved it's twofold we call those any PQ any PQ stands for neuro emotional persuasion questioning that's our methodology okay for my Behavioral Science Background and so we call that solution awareness questions where they're starting to see and more importantly feel what that future looks like once the pain is gone so in what you're saying is here is like once the pain of not having that big mortgage payment on their chest where it's going to destroy their credit is gone yeah what that looks like what that causes them to feel now you can't

ask cheesy questions like how would that make you feel that's okay if you can build up to that okay but you you being able to get that mortgage off of your shoulders where it doesn't destroy your credit what would that do for you personally see that verbal pause okay lower my tone in a concerned oh gosh it would help me it would help me reduce so much stress hold on stress see most sales people would stop they just go the next question on their script I want to probe about that anytime I hear an emotion

word stress so anytime you hear an emotion word I'll just give everybody like a technique anytime somebody says I'm feeling tension I'm feeling pressure I'm feeling stressed I'm frustrated I have anxiety I'm worried I'm concerned I have stress worry yeah and they'll just elaborate yeah you don't have to you can say how do you mean by worry you could say that's a clarifying question or you can say worry yeah now notice my toenail worry say I'm concerned tone they're like oh gosh and see the more pain that you can get the prospect to feel the

more they want to change pain drives change without change there's no sale so you know every once in a while if a salesperson that comes up after a keynote and they'll be like Jeremy I love this so much but I'm just afraid to ask questions for my prospects to feel pain I feel bad for them to feel pain I'm like well if they don't feel pain how are they going to want to change since pain is the number one emotion that drives change in a human being so by you not helping them feel pain they

don't feel the need or urgency to change and now you can't solve their problems yeah and now they don't get right I was definitely one of those guys who felt like that yeah um just like I you know not wanting to be manipulative or I wouldn't want to be manipulative either right and you know you hear all these because you know before I ever got into the the quote-unquote guru space and education space yeah I was like dude I don't ever want to be like those guys just doing these hard sells and you know I

wouldn't either man yeah so you know it's cool to hear like you know actually you brought up a guy Russell Brunson right yeah and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on you know his abilities of selling but I'll tell you he was the first guy I ever bought from from stage um so this was back in 2018 yeah 10x growth con he has like this legendary performance on stage he sold like three million dollars worth of stuff in an hour okay yeah and I was one of the buyers I was like dude that was

like the best presentation I heard I don't even know what roller coaster he took me I'm gonna show you exactly what he did yeah and I was like I I was always a skeptic never bought anything I was like I gotta buy that do you know what he did what do you do he built in your objections into his testimonials yeah so what Russell does really genius is and we do the same thing in our virtual events is he knows the objections that his audience is always going to have we don't have the money I

don't have time to learn how to do this will it work for me and so what he does is he'll show testimonies up there with people who had the same objection and he was like yeah just like you know Bill he came up to me an event and he said I just don't have the time to do this and then he goes through it and he's like now look at Bill he's did this and this so he's subliminal he's like putting he's seeding in your mind yeah overcome the ejection because you can't do that one-on-one

right when you're on stage you have to do it one to many yeah so now you have to do different seeds it's just a little bit of a better angle but it's it's just behaviors I don't know if Russell knows what he's doing but that's what he's doing do you think Russell's a better salesperson or marketer I would say marketer I would say he would say he's a gifted salesperson too I would say he has um he's learning like trial closes and different things that will work on stage doesn't work that well he's not selling

one to one like one to one that doesn't work very well at all um we would do it differently you know if you've ever been to an event where this the stage guy that's selling he's like uh he always says like say I or say yes or all this time all the time you know what I'm talking it comes from like T harvecker okay but the problem is is that that's been around for like 30 years and everybody that's been to an event knows what you're trying to do when you're like what's what do you

know what I'm saying what's that saying they always say like uh if you agree with me say I or say yes and they say it like every two or three minutes because they're like the more yeses you know I read this book the other day like the more yeses she's like if you can get seven yeses in the presentation you're gonna have a 73.6 percent more chance of making a sale but I'm like well according to who what Behavioral Science Study shows that because I've never read any I thought that's what seventh level stood for

that's what I'm saying I'm just like well we'll go into that if you want to it's a whole it's a spiritual thing but um it's like everybody it's like you know I know where that came from it came from like a book in written in the 1950s by a sales trainer and just sales people like copy and paste it in their book and nobody even knows that there's no evidence right there's quite literally no study that shows if you get seven yeses in the sales representation you're 73 more likely to close this out in fact

I look for no right so if I'm we do that too we try to push for a no yeah so knows much better because like if I'm cold calling and if I said are you open to XYZ a lot of people like no because they're a prospect's condition to say no right so if I'm saying are you opposed to having a conversation on that it's hard for them to say yes I'm opposed see what I mean so I want no no I'm not opposed what do you have so just that little angle shift like I'm

going for no sometimes now I'm sure sometimes I'm going for yes but sometimes yeah sometimes it's actually important to say to get a no because that actually gets them to pull you in right so going back to the event you know Russell sold me at the event and we're talking a little bit about events yeah um with sales people this is something I've struggled with I feel like a lot of our sales people are very good um they're they're doing a lot of the strategies you're talking about yeah um obviously you know if they're with

you we only give tips on on no I know tips like on on uh reels I always say people are like I'll get I got stopped in the airport last night I was like are you Jeremy like I follow in IG I'm like are you a client or you just follow me yeah is that I just follow you I'm like oh yeah because we only give like like point zero zero zero zero one percent out of our reels like our clients in your industry they have everything yeah they're learning the sales process from A to

Z right you're learning like a quarter of Z that's about it serious no I know so with event sales one thing that I go back to the Russell thing that was good yeah well with Russell I mean obviously he was selling one to many yeah and he sends everyone to the back of the room yeah they sign up yeah they do the deal with us at events I've been to many events just like you have right and so I've seen sales people in different scenarios right so at this point in our events essentially sales people

have been order takers you know it's like yo go to the back if you want to do it get in the easy ones and so they're getting these tickets the lay downs yeah right for sure yeah and my problem is so many of them are very good one-on-one and they're very good when they have an appointment set for like the I guess they're Trappers is what I would inbound leads yeah yeah a little bit different than outbound lead right whereas I'm like if I go and I'm not saying this is the right way but if

I go to cardone's event these guys are all Hunters they're just trying to go talk to people make a set now we can go into the whole depth of how that could be better but my point is they're out there doing outbound yeah so like what is the proper way to sell an event versus like your typical set or closer you know well I think the person on stage you know if you understand human behavior you got to get the audience to feel like you're doing them a favor by allowing them to pay you for

what you're going to teach them that's how you get the prospect to pull you in if if because I've been to events where they're like okay it's the last call it's your last chance to get in on the training you don't want to miss us out you're going to miss out so much money it's like it just sounds like a sales pitch it sounds needy right so all you're doing is you're lowering your status right right you know we call that status or rank framing okay there's a good book um called pitch anything by Oren

Clapper I've never heard of that I'm going to write it down yeah it's called pitch anything he talks he's like I said there's there's very few people out there that teach sales that understand social dynamics in the way the brain works in human behavior he's one of them and he he mainly just trains in the financial space like how to raise Capital that's where he came from that's all he does okay and so he'll he'll talk about like status or rank frame I learned about it from called Deanie he calls it rank framing he calls

it status framing so basically the same thing it's how to raise your status so right when you come into a conversation it doesn't matter if it's at an event yep right if you're on stage or if you're trying to you know head hunt and go get people there if you're calling an outbound leader you're cold calling or inbound lead right when you come into that conversation you have to get the prospect to view you initially at least as the same status as them now most salespeople because of how society looks at sales people society looks

at sales people as what lower status automatically so when you come into a sales conversation you're already viewed at a lower status am I right like yeah that's how I would depict sales people as a low status like it's trying somebody trying to sell me something right used car sales no pun intended we train lots of used car dealerships so when you come into that conversation you have to come in at least and you have to use words that raise your status most salespeople use needy words that automatically lower their status I'll give you a

couple examples let's say if you're leaving a voicemail hey John you know and let's say it's somebody that didn't buy and you're calling them back a couple weeks later hey John I know we were talking about XYZ you know you investing in real estate uh you know and I'm just calling you back can you please call me back when you have time well those words right there please call me back when you have time all that does psychologically in the brain is lowers your status yeah you're like even though even though your mom says to

say please and thank you in the business Road can you please call me back when you have time all that does is it lowers your status because now you view your status and your time at a much lower value than theirs and they pick up on that right so it's like if you walk if you're selling B2B and you're raising capital or whatever you walk into a boardroom and the CEO comes and okay guys I've got 60 minutes just get you know do your pitch leave this information we'll tell you if we're interested a lot

of CEOs will do that and you go to boardroom most salespeople fall for it like okay I'm so grateful you guys allowed us to come in the conversation and you took the time to meet with us lower status Lower status yeah and then they go into their pitch no I'm not going to do this what I want to do is I want to flip that yeah I want to maintain the status I have to raise my status so I might look at my watch I'm like oh geez you guys must have a lot of time

on your hands I've got 30 35 minutes max before my next appointment with XYZ company should we go and get started now who just took back the status I did I'm almost like putting them down but in a nice way I'm not going to say no I'm not going to do that because they're just going to get defensive like oh now I say this in a playful tone you have to be sarcastic here you can't be like oh you know oh geez you guys must have a lot of time on your hands today I've got

30 35 minutes max before my next meeting should we get started then bam I just took the status back okay or let's say if like I'll give you another example this is a classic one let's say if you ever got well I don't know if you I bet your sales people have they get an email from a prospect they were trying to get to buy you know your different training and stuff or they get a call like hey we really liked your guys's presentation and what you had to offer but we decided to go another

Direction keep in touch now every salesperson's got in that industry or we decided to go with XYZ competitor to keep in touch though yeah and so most days people like well argue like oh well they're suck or that company's bad or you shouldn't go with them and just the prospect digs their heels in yes defensive so what I have to do as a salesperson is I have to cause the prospect to let their guard down and re-engage so I'm going to call them first because it's better if you can call because they can hear your

tonality you can hear their tone you know like that so when I called them like hey John I got your email it's it's not a problem XYZ company they're fairly decent now I'm gonna and then I'm going to show you what I'm gonna do after that the reason why you don't want to say like XYZ company they're horrible because they'll dig their Hills in and you don't want to be too positive you're like oh they're a great company great choice because they're just oh I just made a good decision so I just stay neutral I'm

in the middle yeah they're fairly decent yeah fairly decent okay they're fairly decent um can I ask you something though right there sure go ahead how can I pay attention to my tone How can I communicate to you that you might be making a mistake without you getting upset with me sure what's going on what did I just do I cause them to disarm and let their their guard down now notice the words they use look at my tongue how can I communicate to you that you might be making a mistake without you getting upset

with me nobody's ever going to say I'm going to get upset with you they're like sure go ahead it's just a disarming technique to re-engage that Prospect how can I communicate to you that you might might be is a neutral term yeah don't say that you are making a mistake because any types will get defensive that you might be making a mistake without you getting upset with me notice I put without you getting upset with me oh I'm not upset with you what do you have in mind I cannot tell you how many huge deals

like I remember one deal with this Enterprise company where I made a 93 000 commission they email me that I called them back and I used that question and then like a week later they wired the funds in 93 Grand commission as a salesperson now you wouldn't do that would you do that on a voicemail or would you do that on an email yeah I wouldn't say can I ask you something I'm like yeah sure they're they're a fairly decent uh company um and then I would go like how how could I communicate to you

I'd probably word a little bit how could I communicate to you and and Bob and XYZ or VP key that you guys might be making a mistake without you getting upset with me question mark and then send it too many people fluff out the email we're really excited to work with you blah blah blah and it doesn't work or let's say that somebody's trying to ghost you I'll give you another one here I've even done this in a real before so you're having somebody that ghosts you you know you've had a couple calls with them

you couldn't close them or whatever and they're ghosting you a lot of people email me back like I haven't heard from you we're really excited about doing stuff with you we were a great frit you're a good fit and they like two paragraphs long how many of those emails do you read none none you look at the first sentence you're done right because you're busy well all those people they're talking to are busy too so they don't even read it right so I'm gonna go in there and be like hey John tried to reach you

a few times last week and left a few voicemails but we didn't hear back dot dot dot scroll down one line where should we go from here question mark set where should we go from here I'm telling you you do that you will get an instant response oh yeah I've just been busier my mom went to the nursing home or we decided to go different direction or whatever it is and now you're back at least they're engaged yes yeah but if I fluff that email out and made it through paragraphs I wouldn't even read it

I missed you now notice in that email I'm raising my status right I'm not saying like can you please get back to me we've been trying to reach you try to reach you a few times what do you do on the stage when I guess my status would be higher than the prospect status that's why they're coming to the event what I try to lower down you still want them to view as the expert The Trusted Authority but you want them to view you as just like them right that they can do what you do

because you have the knowledge right to do that you're going to notice like even when we do so am I trying to raise them up to what I okay yeah you got them see one of the biggest difference they might see the thing is like one of the biggest things that that I think speakers understand is the you're viewed at such a high level that they don't believe they can do what you do right that's their objection not that they don't trust that you're awesome and you're the best real estate guy in the world but

like I can't do what he does right he's just different than me he was born at this there's something so you have to you kind of like lower down where you have that hero's journey that I think he talks about right and that here's the journey that you were right there the only thing that separates you from them is the knowledge that they can purchase that's the Gap right and it quite literally is right listen like every you know all of anybody that ever looked into your thing could be just as successful as you is

that if they had your same knowledge yeah because that's what you didn't have that knowledge and you weren't as successful once you gain the knowledge that's why you're here it's the same thing in sales selling is an acquired skill it's a learned skill nobody is born with Advanced questioning advance sociality Advanced objection handling skills those are required skills that you have to learn what do you think about sales guys personality wise because obviously we're born with an our natural personality and sure everything so you know you got guys who are extroverted and talkative you got

people who are introverted like myself who you know I've had to force myself to be social and yeah you know talk to people I'd rather not talk to people at all yeah so how do you deal with that well because we have clients that are extroverted introvert there's also a middle one called Ambien bird Ambi Bert or whatever it's it's okay it's I'm actually a middle one I can be extroverted on stage I can go out there like I did a keynote uh three four months ago with 9 000 people I just go out and

I'm just I do my thing I just love it I'm not even nervous and I could be an introvert where I go to dinner after with everybody and I'll just sit there and just I guess that's where I stand yeah both yeah right so in my mind like we have introverts like you know I had I interviewed this client or Facebook group the other day Tony Bianco he makes like 80 grand monthly commissions he used to be a computer programmer wow he's like I was so scared to talk but the training made so much sense

for him because it was like step by step question the right questions here's the right tone it's like a structure so in his mind the structure made selling really easy for him you know but he's an introvert and then we have other the biggest thing with extroverts that we have to train them is how to slow down like we see so many sales people that are extroverted that just talk fast and when you talk fast it makes people nervous yeah because typically people who talk fast or have anxiety they're hiding something especially if you're talking

to somebody that's more elderly like if you call like final expense Insurance leads you're talking to 60 year olds to maybe 80 and you're talking willing and spending you I mean you're done it's over you can slow your voice down slow your Cadence down because that causes the brain to think deeper about what you're saying and asking if you go fast they can't process it you know you ever have you ever looked into like the brain or anything I'm a weird guy no I've never done it so the science wasn't my thing there's three parts

of your brain it's just what they teach me everything there's three parts of your brain there's some different names but there's The Reptilian part of your brain I've heard of that there's the midbrain and then there's a neocortex okay The Reptilian part of your brain is you know been around forever so you're talking Millions hundreds of thousands of years whenever the first humans were here whatever okay and so that's your your defensive mechanisms and a human being so you know 200 000 years ago it's what causes fight or flight mode or survival mode right so

the saber-toothed tiger lurks behind you you're like whoa like survival mode see that's the first part of your brain that sees that interprets that your prospects human beings actually hear your sound your voice your tone before they can interpret your words so that's why tone is so important right in a sales process because they don't have you ever got a call from a telemarketer you quite literally they talk for 30 seconds and you don't remember a word they said it's because you were just hearing their tone in the way they came across and that triggered

you to say I'm not interested right that triggered your reactions so the so I'll give you an example let's say that you're at a grocery store and you hear a woman screaming and you're you're not hearing her words first you're reptilian parts of your brain here's her tone the sound then instantly it goes to your midbrain okay that interprets that starts to interpret her words then your neocortex says oh that's the problem part of your brain oh it's just a lady yelling at her kid to not get the strawberries right and that could happen in

like three seconds but it first goes into your reptilian part of the brain that hears the sound and that triggers fight or flight mode so typically within like the first 7 to 12 seconds of any sales conversation you're going to be in or any like if anything you do selling anything doesn't matter your prospects subconsciously we can't even help it as a human being is picking up on your verbal and non-verbal cues based off your tone right and what you're saying and asking that triggers their brain to react in one of two ways triggers is

a scary word if you're a salesperson if you come across aggressive now what I mean by that is like overly excited remember I was talking about like enthusiastic sales person right if you come across needy right needy words you can you can tell when you're needing right you can feel it yourself you fill in your body yeah and especially if you come across attached and you don't understand the right question you understand how to use your tone it causes the prospect to go like I said into fight or flight mode and that's where you're like

oh I'm not interested or oh can you call me back I'm too busy or oh you know I don't want to do that anymore that is a triggered reaction it's not like here's the thing I love sales people but sometimes we blame the prospect you never want to blame the prospect you want to look at like what did I say that triggered them to react the way it's not like the prospect woke up that morning like when that sales person calls me at 3 15 today after about 15 seconds because their tone sounds a little

bit fast I'm gonna go into fight or flight mode and say I'm not interested no they React to what you're doing they're reacting to that so when we train sales people we teach them how to come across more neutral more unbiased like I'm not quite sure we could even help it I don't know enough about what you're doing right which lowers the guard you're not going to say that the rest of the call but in the beginning I don't have any trust or credibility I have to get them to let their guard down to become

comfortable enough to open up to what I'm going to ask them right okay so I have to come across more calm more Collective Now that doesn't mean to be boring right that doesn't mean that you're not assertive like right now when we're talking we're talking in a conversation but we're still assertive we're Collective so you want to come across Collective like an expert does like an authority does right you want to come across detached see experts are detached they don't need the client there are tons of clients they're detached from the outcome and you learn

the right questions you learn the right tone what that hap what happens is it causes the prospect's brain to become curious enough that's the word curious enough where they want to engage right they want to open up because they feel like you might have something important they don't know yet but you triggered that engagement and that's all the salesperson skill level that does that yeah and that's a learned skill I love that so what do you think about these sales so going back to just event sales since you know we we've got an event coming

up here in a couple of weeks and I see what you're trying to do freaking Soul free consultation there you go I love it this is this is what the podcast is it's all about free Consulting so yeah I mean I I gotta say it because I'm in Russell's uh uh we signed up for his like Inner Circle Advanced uh category Kings or something so when you pay like 150 or 200 Grand a year or whatever there's like 20 people in there yeah and I love it because I'm like I know exactly what he's doing

because he gets everybody up there and they all share their ideas what they're doing for marketing he's like taking notes he's taking notes I'm like he's having Sprint he's having people pay him 250 Grand to take their ideas to build his business even more it's brilliant I love it well done I always I always like I'm like well done yeah Russell knows what he's doing I love that so I going back to like you know a lot of times these guys are order takers they're not going outbound like I guess with technique so many like

what you're teaching is pure technique once they're like in the moment how much of what you teach is going out there and making it happen with like outbound hey follow-up hey you know how does that I mean even most of our sales is sudden level comes from outbound more than inbound for sure we dominate an outbound like our slos and stuff crazy um but I mean most sales Industries outside of like the high ticket space mainly do outbound right inbound is not like when I was in other other sales jobs like in B2B sales I

would maybe get a couple of appointments a day maybe maybe a couple appointments a week but most of it was cold calling or outbound lead generation going out there talking to business owners and stuff so with your business today at seventh level like how much would you say is that your Revenue comes from outbound versus inbound well when I say outbound as well it would come from like DMS and Instagram it would come in from DMS in our social media like Facebook you would still you would count that as outbound even though they're because you're

outbound well you're always dming people yeah like we have DM Setters that are in there messaging people okay got it got it that's outbound okay it's just a different way right uh most people would call outbound like there's two most like cold calling I wouldn't say is outbound outbound is like somebody responds to a Facebook ad they put in their name email phone number requesting somebody to call them back they don't know who it is or when that's an outbound lead now you can have outbound cold calling that's like taking a name and a phone

number from LinkedIn they have don't know you from Adam they've never seen anything that's like stuff that's pure cold calling outbound yeah and we do a ton of that too so it's kind of what I've considered outbound okay yeah and some people would so you got outbound leads and then outbound cold calling right leads more like prospecting we're trying to create a lead yeah so what most sales people do unfortunately with cold colony is they do this hi is this John hey John it's James Miller with XYZ company hey the reason why I was calling

was click yeah and they go right into their solution that quite literally is what 95 of cold callers say so the problem with that type approach like my name is I'm with the XYZ company and the reason why I'm calling you is is every salesperson that's also cold calling them as a business I mean it's not like you're the only one cold calling them they're getting cold calls from maintenance people cop you know copy machines you know selling them a sink like they're getting cold calls all the time and everyone my name is I'm with

the reason I called and so in a prospect's mind that just triggers fight or flight because you sound like everybody yeah so they're going in defensive mechanisms anytime a prospect feels or they hear certain words or tone that they've heard from other sales people they're instantly going into survival mode trying to get rid of you so that's the proper way to outbound cold call when you want to know okay so what you want to do is you want to use what's called a problem statement okay so let's say I'm selling what you do because we

train a lot of people in that space so I might print off some copies of so let's say I'm calling homeowners to try to get them to sell their homes so I might print off in Most states you can go into like County tax records and print off the you know the property details yep so I'm going to call yeah is this John yeah uh John uh Jeremy Miner I'm holding a copy of your County tax records on your property at five five Willow Lane I was wondering if you could uh help me out for

a moment what does that do like what triggers curiosity what do you mean you've got my county taxer or what's this all about that's what they're going to do yeah instantly I changed it where they weren't like click instantly like well who is this again or what's this all about that's all I want to do right there to create curiosity trigger curiosity okay now for other Industries there'll be other things you could do I'm just going over yours okay yeah I'm holding a copy of your County tax records on your property with 555 Hodges Drive

I was wondering if you could possibly help me out for a moment uh sure yeah what's what's going on or who's this all about well I'm not even sure if it makes sense for us to talk but I represent a group of high net worth investors that are looking to purchase typically three to five properties in like your general vicinity and we were looking at your property on the tax records and we were calling to see if you would be opposed to having a brief conversation around possibly selling your property would you be opposed to

talking about that I love that it's very very hard for them to say yes I'm opposed they're like sure what's yeah and they just yeah it's like seven out of ten times when you get a prospect seven out of ten times you're in a conversation so whereas most sales people cold calling like I got to talk to one out of 300 today so I'll I'll give you yeah I mean you don't need props but I'll give it to you like I've had many different sales trainers and people you know talk about cold calling that was

the best pitch I've heard to get them to go you're welcome that was the human behavior trigger curiosity if you understand the way the brain works you understand how to form your questions if you don't understand I'm going to start asking everyone if they're a post anything I'm gonna like do that with my wife are you opposed tonight yeah and you want to set it up there's a couple you want a couple ask a couple questions before that and say are you opposed to have doing this yeah so so you know it's it's interesting my

marriage is about to get a lot better yeah because then if they're like well they're like oh oh we already have somebody for this so let's say this you do that they're like oh we already have somebody for that yeah oh yeah not a problem and just so you're aware I'm not quite sure we could even help you yet yeah we have to know if we want to work with you yeah so like oh yeah and just so you know so I'm I see in a cold call it's really important because A lot's going on

in the brain you're a stranger yes if you knock on doors or you go business to business cold calling at their business like you come into the office or you're on the phone there's a lot going on in their brain like fight or flight mode like survival mode like they're trying to get rid of you so you gotta calm down you got to get them you we always call the abds of selling always be disarming do you always heard of the ABCs of of closing right you always be closing that Mantra is interesting because I'm

like ah gosh you know is that Glengarry again raw show like put that coffee down coffee's for closers and I'm like oh my God you know like that in my mind that's what average sales people do like yeah I'm gonna close it's not like when I was making two to three million dollars you're in commissions as a sales person working from companies it wasn't like I got to them like well uh George uh just let me know if you're interested I mean uh that uh that's not gonna work that ain't working but if I'm asking

the option close and trying to manipulate them that triggers a lot of resistance right so I want to get them to close themselves so I have to disarm them I have to get them to let their guard down or there's no sale right there's no trust so here here what it is because when I first do this like what you say that they might not even need you well yeah because they I have no trust or credibility so as soon as I tell them that I might not even be able to help that maybe they're

better off staying with who they already have what do you think happens they just left their guard down yeah I disarm them and now throughout that conversation I'm going to build a gap yeah from where they are to where they want to be where towards the end they feel like oh my gosh like it's obvious that I need what this person's offering so I'm like oh yeah just so you know I'm not quite sure we could even help you but that's what we do I'd have to know more about you know kind of the the

the property you have the condition it's in and and those type of details to to give you an offer uh you know because otherwise you know to to you know to even know what to give you an offer because otherwise I'd just be throwing a price point out there and it might not even be worth what the home not might not be it might be an offer that is is far less than what the home is even worth are you opposed to having a conversation around that saying I'm right back into it oh yeah just

yeah I'm not quite sure we can even help you yet you know we'd have to know more about what you're doing with XYZ and kind of the results you're getting from that compared to where you're wanting to be because you might be better staying with who you already have are you with me on that by because you might be better off staying if you already have they're just well I'm telling you their guard is like what do you have yeah it just they let their guard down because I'm admitting that I might now notice I

use the word might yeah neutral it's a neutral word possibly you might be looking for possible hearing you use a lot or opposed possibly possibly might might be it you know so like give an example so let's say if a prospect let's say if you're in B2B sales I don't know if any of your audiences and let's say that are prospects like you get a referral they're like you have a really interested we know you guys are really big firm you've got a lot of client success I might say well just because we're a big

firm might not mean that it would be right for you though I'd have to find out more now what did I just do there I'm saying I'm I'm getting them to pull me see I'm pushing back see I'm teaching how to push back like push them away yeah to get them to do what pull you back in yeah but most days we're like oh yeah we're a big firm that's why everybody comes to us and they go right into their pitch I'm pushing back well just because we're a big firm doesn't necessarily mean that it's

going to get you the best result I'd have to find out now I'm neutral on that I don't say anything positive or negative I'd have to find out more about what you're doing here and here uh you know and we and then we can go through the details to see if we could help and then they're instantly pulling me back in see I want the prospect to pull me in because I know if they pull me in that it's their idea they internalize they internally persuade themselves so I don't have cancels I don't have chargebacks

I don't have any of that so what's the culture like at your company like how many employees do you guys have you know is the sales floor like you know very laid back and chill is it Rowdy are people like super excited we have uh I'd have to ask my CEO now I think we're like at 140 something 141 142 that can change I I don't even run the business I don't even know what's going on I don't even get on the meetings anymore right I'm not on any like the staff meetings or anything uh

but I believe we're 140 something like that sales people we have like 33 34 that's our outbound and inbound team we have about 10 in our office in Scottsdale and then we have about five in our office and our International headquarters are in Sydney Australia so we have an office there as well and then everybody else is virtually virtual because we started like we started really growing like a month before covid and so we just kind of had to be virtual and now we're starting to bring sales people into the offices yeah they're starting to

make certain people come in the offices do you obviously I like the office environment that's where I come from Corporate America yeah I was in b2c sales B2B but it was mainly in the office there's sometimes I'd work from home and stuff like that but I love see I think working virtually there's an advantage that you can get tasks done because you're not interrupted unless you've got kids that you're distracted but if you're sitting there and nobody's coming to your office because you're just at home and your spouse has gone to work or whatever and

you're just sitting there you can get tests done like crazy so I think people do tasks think working problems just fine but I think sales people need to be around other sales people because they just learn there's energy they learn from each other like you go into the break room you're sitting around like hey I just got this objection like and I said this like oh well the way I would have handled would have been this like oh that's a good idea so now they go in the room and when you don't have that when

they're all on Zoom it's like you have to have set up meetings and talk about that just it's not the same thing with a sales floor so I really like the sales people coming in I just think that I know the ones that are in our offices make more money than the ones that work from home so what would you say is like the the environment is everybody because our sales floor is pretty chill I would say I was pretty chill we're not wolf on Wall Street we're not we're not you know and I I

mean Andy Elliott when he came in here he brought like seven of his guys and it's rowdy rowdy yeah meaning uh I mean they're very like high energy just like pump you up yeah like ready to roll like it's like a I would I would equate it to like a football team getting ready for a game I would say ours is more chill more Collective because we're like I love the rowdiness but if you go into a TR like a sales call and you're all Rowdy and hyped up it's going to trigger a lot of

resistance with the prospect because why would they care if you're Rowdy or hyped up it just sales person trying to sell me something so we typically come across I mean we you know we do great things we have like a we have a game room and stuff like that but it's more about like they're coming in the office to learn right so like we do trainings like all the time sales people are learning like they're in there to help people find and solve problems and they get paid a lot of money for I mean I've

got an eight our top sales person is 18 years old he's really he's on Pace to make almost 900 000 this year in commissions wow he was a client this is a crazy story I I yeah I want to hear about that I'd have to bring this guy in for you to even believe it's crazy because he looks like he's 30. really like he gets on zoom and he's just like he's just like bam like he's like closing big businesses you know he's freaking 18 he doesn't say he's 18 because he looks like he's 30

or something right but he was a client like he got a sales job when he was like 16 and he was like one of our just regular clients and he started making like 10 15 20 25 Grand a month and we're like man that guy's good and so he wanted to work for us we hired him a little bit over a year ago and he's just crushing it man now but how many of your clients do you end up recruiting for your own business we because that's happened for me a lot we try to we

really try to stay away from that because we have a lot of companies that bring the sales people in it's a conflict event yeah that's a conflict it's we would never like it's not a conflict yeah we would never like if we're training a company we would never if they came and applied yeah we'd turn them down because we just it's a conflict of interest so these are just I mean you know we on board like 5 000 new clients a month yeah into our high ticket programs and stuff so there's plenty right and we

see who really really is good depending on which we have more advanced training programs right we have like any PQ 2.0 and epq 3.0 Advanced Inner Circle and so as they get more and more advanced they're more and more money you have less people in those and we see who's really good and who needs more work in this I mean you guys are onboarding 5 000 clients a month and you told me you just started this four years ago yeah late 2017 yeah it was like a hobby the first year it was me and my

assistant I took my assistant from my job it's like hey I'm going to start a company for about a year you want to come with it was me and Beth my sister and you had already killed it as just a guy on his own selling support other companies yeah and then now like what was the biggest difference like actually building the company for yourself always rough first year man because I'm not a CEO I'm just it's completely different like being a like a professional salesperson or even a VP of sales or even a chief sales

officer of a company compared to being the CEO and business owner of the company right night and day difference you know and I don't think most people think about that and so for the first year I mean the first year would be like 1.3 million in sales I think we spent 1.8 million so I lost like half a million dollars I'm like I had tons of testimonials I'm like great I lost 500 Grand I'm glad everybody else is making money you know I made more money I know right and one of my clients uh his

name's Matt Ryder is my business partner and CEO um he was one of my clients that first year and we scaled his gyms where he sold them for a lot of money and just crushed it in like a year year and a half he's in Australia that's why they're International quarters in Sydney and I was like I need this guy to run the business so in my persuasive way he thinks he persuaded me but I'm like no it really persuade me because he called me like six points I think you know I really persuaded you

to like get ownership in the company and see I'm like oh you did is that what you thought I didn't know I wasn't seeding that in your mind the whole time so anyways so he's great we work really well together and he came on and when was it about two and a half years ago like that and then Marco Cortese which was one of our clients as well he ended up making the year before like a million dollars in commissions at his job he sold like Fitness like high-end fitness programs like coaching and stuff yeah

and now he's our chief Revenue officer he's over all of our marketing basically two and a half years ago when he came in we're like hey these outside agencies we they don't understand our brand you're gonna have to learn how to Market he said I don't know how to Market but here's a bunch of courses he comes out like a month later and he's like he's like this brilliant marketer we're like where did this guy come from like he's just like this great marketer and we just like this that's funny literally like overnight you know

it's crazy we'd hit our first million dollar month then the first 1.5 million dollar month then like three months they were two million dollars a month then 2.5 then three and what we could probably be bigger right now where we're at you know where I kind of told you the numbers run a little bit over four million a month in revenue for a sales training company that's a lot it's insane you know it's the profit margin is so high we could be much bigger than that we could put more money in ad spend but our

brand is more important for us to get the Fulfillment right because a lot of companies they'll just spend money and like get all these clients and then the clients don't get results and then they're done a couple years later because you get a lot of complaints we'll never do that we will purposely slow down the business and spend less and get less people into our Advanced programs because it comes too crowded in the group trainings just because the brand to us the longevity is more important than paying myself 10 million dollars next year if that

makes sense well we want to come to be here 50 years from now 100 years I mean when I was asking you earlier I was like hey so what is it you're trying to do with this you know who's who's your competition all this and you're like well you know this this company Sandler's been around since 1971 1971 they did what 250 million or something I think they're the largest sales training company in North America yeah in in Europe there's actually a company the biggest company in the world is like GTX I think they're out

of Stockholm Sweden they do about 400 million a year just sales training but now we're implementing like placement that's gonna it's a whole nother um my friend double our red I don't know if you heard of my friend Cole Gordon does that I know cool yeah you have had dinner with cold many times he lives right across the street from me and Scott oh yeah I forgot he lives yeah yeah it goes great yeah he does placement in like the high ticket space right yep so we're so we're doing starting placement like solar and insurance

and some other Industries we have big ties in we train thousands of people in and then we're getting into like more of the CRM type of uh model and stuff with Salesforce because they all need it anyway Salesforce and HubSpot well it's interesting because what do you think's the best CRM besides the One You're Building I think we use close IO okay I don't know much about I mean dude I'm just we use we use HubSpot right now and all I hear about is just complaints and then we have Salesforce for one of my other

companies yeah then we use podio like yeah we use close i o the thing with uh a lot of people don't understand the way the way our brain works so when a sales person gets off a sales call they're in right brain activity emotional type of activity it's a right brain activity sales calls you're dealing with emotions you're talking then they go over here and start entering all this data and guess where their brain goes left brain okay logical based thinking so you go from right brain thinking on a sales call two minutes later you're

logically thinking entering data yeah the mind going from logic back to emotion on average it takes the average salesperson 19 minutes on the next sales call before they're fully back to that emotional state think of how many sales sales people lose just switching switching because they're still in the logical part they need to be in the emotional side the whole time somebody so one of my coaches told me that with you know whenever you're doing a presentation and so it's a little different for me right because with with sales people that whether you're just going

with a prospect or whatever the case is like for me it's I'm the content I'm the marketing guy I'm on stage I'm yeah making videos yeah um one thing he told me was he's like Ryan you know it's great that you're putting out such amazing content but you would convert better if you did more context he's like if you did you know 80 contacts 20 content it would be far what do you mean by context basically the emotional side like getting people um you know to the point of belief that they can do it helping

them understand they have the problem it's getting them into her emotional state it's what Tony Robbins exactly and he's like you're you're so logic based and just you want to give so much value yeah but the problem is people they can learn you can give them all the stuff but if they don't make the decision that they want to actually everybody makes every decision you ever make is emotional right you know I see people like oh you don't understand B2B sales is all logic I'm like I hate to tell you this but like the way

the brain works is you quite literally can't decide to go pee without making an emotional decision like your brain your emotional side of your brain is makes decisions for you to eat to go left to go right and then you just like like in the military like or give an example let's say that you're you're in the military and a grenade goes off and it damages your brain it damages your right side of your brain your emotional side of your brain those people are vegetables they you can't decide to even get up to tie your

shoes or go to the bathroom without your emotional side of your brain you don't make decisions on logic it's all emotion and you justify it later with logic right every even Warren Buffett when he makes a financial decision is first starts in his emotional side of his brain and then goes to his logic part of his brain if you don't have the emotional side you're a vegetable you can't move right what do you think about so I know you have structure with everything you guys teach and about the way for those who don't know how

do they start working with you yeah you know the best place we'll give them some nibbles we always like to give nibbles so have him go to our our free Facebook group sales revolution.pro I think I had my assistant Natalia send it to you guys so go to salesrevolution dot Pro okay uh it's a Facebook group there's 70 some thousand sales people in there all Industries all helping each other we go live in there two three four times a week different q and A's the salesrevolution.pro got the link that's like www.sales Revolution and that'll take

them to the take them right to the free group that's probably the best way okay and what we'll do is we'll uh for any of the listeners if they because I know we didn't have time to go through a lot of all the different questions yeah we have a we have a booklet it's about a 50-page book called The nepq Black Book of questions there's like 273 different nepq questions used for different situations different times and we'll give that to them for free sweet uh but they'll have to DM me now I probably won't be

the one dming you back probably one of my stunt doubles yeah surrogates right like Ryan has a stunt doubles in there but just say hey I was I heard Jeremy on Brian's podcast can I have that black book of questions and they'll send you over the PDF I'm still waiting with that we won't charge them for that I love it yeah so final thing one thing I've always heard about you know the common question we get for new sales people or trying to get homeowners to like okay but like what script should I follow and

I've always been a guy I'm like dude you don't like scripts aren't a thing like there's structure and like you have to have a flow yeah but you shouldn't be just like word for word falling scripts like what's your thoughts well I I feel scripts are good to have a structure okay but the conversation never goes this place no it's like it's like Mike Tyson says everybody has a plan to get punched in the nose right every Prospect you're talking to always says something different or throws you off right but you still want to have

that structure to know kind of the path to take them down yeah but you know there's certain questions on that sales structure that might not be needed based on what they said right and I might have to re-language you know I'm just going to ask the question just yeah but a lot of things I know and that's why they sound scripted right sounding scripted is the worst thing possible you can do with the prospect because they feel like they're in a sales call they feel like their telemarketer quite literally leading the reading the two paragraphs

and so instantly even if they stay on that sales call what's going to happen is they stay surface level so if you're a salesperson watching this if you're asking questions and the prospect's giving you vague generalized answers or two or three word responses it's because they've emotionally shut down by something you said or how you've said it your tone and the questions you're asking sound scripted so going back to verbal cues because you're asking me that so the way you use verbal cues besides just showing that you're present in that conversation is you want to

use a verbal cue to bridge from question to question okay okay so I'll give an example um I might say so so walk me through like what do you guys do now to to generate new leads and clients for your industry and you're like oh we do Facebook and I'm saying okay huh oh so I'm going to say oh okay how long have you been doing that for oh okay that's a verbal cue oh now most sales people do this so ask that first question the prospect will answer and then they'll step back and they're

like okay cool next question gotcha awesome awesome uh let me ask you John and it sounds so scripted because that's not had a real conversation goes but if I'm like oh and how long have you been doing that for uh-huh really so what caused you to do that compared to XYZ ah I see and then that process you've been using like I mean it can't be all doom and gloom I mean what what you've been with him for five years can't be all doom and gloom what do you like about them oh we like this

we like that okay what would you change though if you could though see I'm using verbal cues to bridge from question to question which causes the conversation to feel natural so the prospect keeps their guard down right it's all about keeping the guard down the entire conversation if you can do that you're gonna you're gonna make ten times more than any other sales person selling the same damn thing that sounds scripted or sounds salesy or uses needy words like you just have no it's just you have such a competitive Advantage it's not not even fair

no not at all so what's next for you I mean you said you're not spending a ton of time in the business you know you've gotta I mean dude I do like training develop products oh so yeah they're handling my board of directors named me the the chief creative officer I was the CEO yeah until two two and a half years ago then Matt took that title I was the chairman of the board then six months ago they're like you can't be the chairman of the board anymore we're all like we're all like corporate now

so they bring in all these you know big corporate people to run everything attorneys and lawyers and everything they're like we're going to call you the founder and chief creative officer I'm like okay I'm just the founder I'm just the founder guy no I'm always developing new products you know I you know typically I do two lives a week in our Facebook groups uh IG lives you know things like that you know I develop products all the time I just redid our our napq 2.0 training portal so I just re-recorded like 18 hours worth of

content for that I just did an insurance specific product that's 10 hours of virtual training content for final expense so you're just I mean you're very similar to what I do right now it's like a lot of just content Thursdays and Fridays that's all I do so Thursdays and Fridays on my calendar you know what I do reels intention so we do like I probably do is we do like four wheels a day yep yep you know uh and then like two posts today on all the different channels we do YouTube shorts now we have

we start we just started doing like long form YouTube we only had like 40 000 subscribers on YouTube we haven't done anything with YouTube that's our next step YouTube we've dominated Facebook and IG now we're like we're bringing in uh people for YouTube we've been a whole YouTube Studio but Thursdays and Fridays all I do is shoot reels and shoot ads yep that's all I do those that I just walk in I feel the six hours straight I always say like I'm a excuse my language I yeah my mom would wash my mouth out with

soap if I said this but I feel like I'm a Content I just do content I'm used for Content like just there you are just do the con I'm probably like you dance around dance around dance and say this do the content you know so we you know we have these repurpose our you know like if I'm doing group trainings for a company or a virtual keynote or a live keynote we always repurpose that for reals and then we do like 60 intentional reels per month you know so we'll go in directly what are sales

people Googling what are they asking in YouTube search and then we do reels around that and then you'll have a reel that might have three million views and then you you have some others that have 80 000 it just depends you know yeah depends on what lands but our stuff is not like you know like Brad I love Brad yeah he honestly like dude how did you get the Chris he's like oh well I'm provocative and I say all this stuff I'm like yeah but with us like it's more about like intentional I was about

to say tactical Journey you're very intentional and you know I told you right at the beginning of this conversation I just wing it yeah and like me and Brad definitely come from that of like yeah we have our training portals some of our training portals are through light speed and those are through kajabi and stuff so I love that yeah I should go visit him today you should the Rhino guy but I was uh but it's so funny because I'm like dude he's like well I'm provocative and I say this stuff and I'm like man

is this he's like I've got companies looking I got you know we just signed Exxon Mobil as one of them hey if I'm doing that with Exxon Mobil that's going to turn them off so I might get smaller views but mine are more like intentional because I'm looking for other higher quality they're the exact view you're looking for that's what I'm looking for yeah yeah they're not broad just random yeah because tick tock's crazy you know you do like a real on Tick Tock you might have three million views but it's like the Wild Wild

West they're not even sales people no or entrepreneurs they're just like that's a crazy guy that lives in his basement in Iowa is Mom's basement that like is a you know a stalker that says weird things you're like oh my gosh you know how did that guy even see this reel but with IG it's it's just more targeted very curated yeah it's very it's much better for sure yeah well bro I appreciate you coming out to Vegas man with a few you know little nibbles oh dude I can't wait to to see the entrees and

the desserts I know yeah the full course meals and the five course no I love your industry uh I mean we train a lot of companies like marketing agencies too and yeah and and companies do real estate like Pace mobility and stuff we gotta train a bunch of his guys and stuff like that so I I get it's a both of those are really good Services people have tons of problems you guys have the solutions to solve those all that's missing the missing link is just the sales people's communication skills yep to communicate that's it

once you do that easy to sell I love it well guys go get that um free what was it called again the black yeah just have them go to salesrevolution.pro sales revolution.pro free Facebook group when you get in there the DMS message me and say hey I heard Jeremy on Ryan's podcast can you send me the black book of questions I'll give it to you for free and we have a new book it's called the new model selling selling to an unsellable generation I think my My Assistant gave you the Barnes Noble link so we

have a deal with Barnes Noble that the more books we sell online the more they stock their chefs right now most stores we have like one or two books it just came out three months ago so Wall Street Journal bestseller Amazon bestseller Barnes Noble bestseller already so we gave him the Barnes and Noble link it's 17 for the book if anybody needs a GoFundMe page for that 17 investment let us know we'll establish the GoFundMe page but you go to Barnes I'd ask you to buy the book from Barnes and Noble not Amazon even though

I love Amazon but we have a good deal with Barnes Noble so if you go to Barnes Noble's website and we gave you the link directly to the book that book we made very tactical you know I've read we didn't talk about this but I've read she's I've learned this from Brian Tracy himself like my first seven stories use your vehicles the university on Wheels I'm like okay turn off the radio no no more songs or whatever and since then I've either read or listened to uh five books a month times 12 months a year

times 22 years it's like 1 340 some books now I don't read all those I usually listen about two or three in the car driving around yeah and then I read two or three books all on sales persuasion influence and so most of those books I always found was just like Theory and rehashing the same Theory and I'd walk away I'm like I didn't learn anything right so in this book uh the co-author Nigeria cup he's another sales trainer we wanted to write like tactical training here's the right questions here's why you're asking them here's

what not to do here's what to do and why so they can actually read the book and actually put it down and go out and sell them for the next day so that book is very very tactical so if you want to take your sales ability to another level that book probably would be a good read for sure yeah I'm going to read it thank you very much I actually brought you one I was going to authorize it with my nice little message let's do it I'm going to read it I I don't read five

a month but I read about two to three a month and so I'm not a listener like I don't absorb it as much I have to like physically it is like a really trick to the uh trade there is if you listen to it the same time you're reading it oh yeah so if you listen in the car and then you're reading it at home you're actually going to retain a lot more 100 trick to the brain yeah I love it it was a it was a pleasure being on your show man yeah it's fun

I appreciate it yeah dude we got a good time I could have kept going that's a good sales meeting you know when you're just vibing I like it man well guys both baseball Bros we got we got that going for us there we go well guys make sure you subscribe go check out Jeremy's new new uh YouTube channel and go show them some love and we'll see you guys on the next episode Peace if I was to kidnap your kids put a gun to their head and I was gonna kill them if you didn't sell

30 cars would you sell 30 people don't accidentally get successful people win on purpose you know why because they have an intent everybody sucks till they don't everybody starts somewhere until they rise to the top of them I stuttered I literally was the least likely to make it what I did is I started