Unknown

[Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] foreign [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] branding in marketing Primal brand in copywriting ties uh customer experience the massage importance is foreign English foreign [Music] cases foreign I'm so happy to have you here welcome to primocast to Brazil thank you so much man yeah I'm excited to be here I always have a great time in Brazil oh thank you so much and how do you feel like

with a book so wonderful here for Brazilians do you like it I love it it's like a nice pretty orange color it's got a cool unicorn on the front what's not to like about it yeah it's very good and it helped not only me but a lot of entrepreneurs in Brazil you must receive a lot of feedback from you right I do um a lot of people it's usually at conferences people come up and say hey I read your book I left your book and uh whether sometimes it's the AC to be Savelle book sometimes

they keep a raise a mental book but um yeah it's great I love the I love the people especially in Brazil okay so cool and just tell me like in 30 seconds uh who should read this book and who should read this book sure um they have the two very different books okay if you are a a sales leader DPS sales sales executive sales manager salesperson the sales Bible they call the sales Bible of Silicon Valley is the Hasty the DC bail book okay it goes deep into sales but if you're a sea level like

CEO CEO president thank you president um or early stage company trying to get your growth up keep your Christian mental book is the better book to start with okay different the Hebrew Christian mental book is like a growth Bible growth book versus the salesman you really can't go wrong but so if you're really not sure I guess the Hasty the BC belt because everyone's read that here okay first of all the first question is which one is the hardest path uh learning how to sell or learning how to manage a family of 10 kids and

a wife giving me a layup here oh my God you said he's like Aaron I'm gonna ask you some hard questions okay um yeah because you have 10 10 kids and maybe not all the audience know it yeah it's an interesting fact I have 10 children 10 children yes uh let's break down the math two from my wife's first marriage question partner five adopted three biological together right and seven of them live with us in Scotland and Edinburgh and three you're in Los Angeles still the older ones so how did you come up come up

with this idea of having 10 children in your house I still don't know honestly I still have no idea it just happened one by one you know so the got married and there's two I had two kids from that way right away and then we just wanted to have a baby right away and then we just then we adopted one and then I don't we we never had a plan to have a big family just I think after four kids or which maybe five we just thought wow we pulled up a big family and then

there's a few years I don't remember much all right because there was we had at some point we'd adopted a baby and we had a then we had a baby and we had a lot of young kids and anyone who has even one young kid much less twins or a few it just I don't think I slept for a couple years wow so I'm just I'm just recovering right now from that so it's harder to raise 10 children it is really I say [ __ ] hard oh okay um have you said that but nothing

like having a family I mean whether it's a big family a small family to force someone to light a fire under their butt including mine to make more money to learn to sell or to take it to the next level so I would say that you know selling isn't hard to learn it's hard to master and you never do it's a it's a life skill anyone can use whether you want to be in sales be an entrepreneur or even start a non-profit but what it takes to master it I I still don't know because no

matter even when you master it the next year everything changes and there's things new things to do to learn so uh it it may be hard to answer what it takes to master but what it takes to like to be on the top level of the sales models and players in the field what it takes to be the top level well I don't know about other people I can only speak for myself okay and so to me it started with starting at the very bottom right and I think a lesson for people who are or

want to be an entrepreneur or I may do anything is that um when I was in my late 20s I started a company raised a few million dollars in venture capital and it failed one of the reasons it failed was because I didn't know how to build a sales team I a lot of natural entrepreneurs can sell because they have to sell themselves to be to get a company started that's different than kind of creating an organized sales team so I hired and I was like 27 28 or something and it was you know I

had hired a VP sales but when sales weren't working I didn't know how to fix them so I say I had abdicated my understanding of sales I didn't delegate sales and so after that can be failed like okay if I want to do another company I need to know how sales works and you know you can only learn so much from Reading any book including mine like so I got a job at salesforce.com and the only job they had was the vote the most low level job called um it was just responding to website leaves

it went from being CEO of a internet company I raised Venture money to the most Junior job at Salesforce and at that time like today salesforce.com is a multi-multi-billion then it was 150 people maybe 20 million Revenue and I just I didn't let my ego or pride get in the way of taking the job that I knew I needed to uh to learn so it's a way to get paid to learn so that was a step for me which is to be in the trenches doing the Dirty Work to learn and from there um but

like when you enter in this in Salesforce you you didn't know exactly how to build a sales team motto no I didn't know anything I knew I remember uh yeah I didn't know anything no and how did you learn it because if you didn't know and Salesforce didn't sell like it use it to be later on how did you manage to create a sales model like you did and like you showed me in the book for example yeah well I think part of it was I knew that I wasn't going there to be in sales

forever I went there to learn right you can go to business school and pay to learn which is great or you can get a job and get paid to learn which is great too incredible just different it's an attitude so I went to to get a job to learn and to make some money but mostly was to learn and I knew that if I go to Salesforce okay they have this job I didn't want to take the lowest level job there but that was all they had it's like okay I'll do that I'll figure it

out and then I'll I will figure something else out there I will find a way to make my mark and so took the job did really well for a few months improved myself and I proposed hey I see this I talked so another thing that was really helpful and I recommend to anyone in the first few weeks of the job I went and could have met people from all around the company and it was easier than when there's an office right in the old days when everyone was in one place back in those days and

I went and talked to people in customer support and just said hey I'm new here I'm Aaron I'm just meeting people like what do you do I went to people in customer success and in field sales and I met the president um I met Mark I just kind of introduced myself and I got a better sense of how all the parts of the company work together and I also learned oh hey there's this problem Salesforce is trying to go up Market to sell to bigger companies they have this Enterprise product but they're not getting leads

for this they're getting tons and tons of small at least for small businesses Word of Mouth nothing's working to try to go up Market and it's like um they tried some cold calling they tried hiring expensive sales people who had relationships it was like I don't know something in me felt like I could try to figure this out and so I said hey I don't know how to do it but I can do better than what's happening so let me try it and they gave me a few months so I think there was something in

me first that was like um I got to know the company and I kind of got to know the basics and I went and talked to people and found a problem Executives wanted solved and I said hey give me a chance to do it and they did and it took three or four months to come up with the solution with this kind of outbound sales process that helped create basically as much as many qualified sales meetings as salesforce.com needed but that was the work I think so that was a part of this um type of

like a belief in myself okay that but he always believed in yourself or did you improve on that you know I'm always improving like there's some places I I did believe in myself by looking back I think over the last at that point it's hard to say you know is I don't really remember there in that case I did it was something but it's also kind of a belief out of ignorance right there's something that when I'm young and starting an adventure find a company I didn't know I was just like I'm gonna try it

and then once that failed there's a lot more of a like a pain Factor like oh yeah and then we as we get older so now what's happened is that I didn't really believe myself as of being a father with 10 you know when we started two kids but over the years it probably took like seven eight nine years at some point like I just developed a lot more self-belief is not just in being a parent but also in being able to do whatever problems come up like we'll just find some way to deal with

it because they're with a big family there are constant problems you like to say that you know okay up someone broke a leg just put them in the back take a number right right some there's anxiety there's this there's like a money plague constantly a lot of problems to solve a lot of there's never ending problems to solve so now like I'm still learning this uh and like even now like more even self-belief and kind of how to deal with relationships and like even uh my romantic you know marriage relationship kids there's a lot it's

all I'm still developing so let's see Mike I have a company uh I want to sell more what is the first step my company uh should take to build a good business a a good sales team a good sales model and good kpis yeah what's really it's all about the people okay start right if you have the right people you think we should start with the people not the motto yeah when you have it I mean like if you already have good people okay people you can trust like if you have a great what is

good people for you you know well it all depends right so what's a good child well it all depends like in this case let's say you've got someone who on your team who you've seen they've been able to just kind of solve things and they may not have any sales experience but they've shown success in solving things maybe they solve the customer success problem maybe they were a successful musician like they've shown success in places you could take that person and say look can you figure out a new sales model and they'll be able to

there's plenty of information out there they can find right they will be able to do that so in this case and if you don't have that person and if you need to say that you say you're a it's very common right especially in Brazil like I'm a CEO it's pretty common people have like a VP of sales and they're really not a good fit right so what is a good fit for someone in the sales Channel um if you're not learning so let's say you're let's say you're an entrepreneur if you have a sales executive

and you're not learning from them you feel like you have to teach them something that's a problem okay that's not just for sales that'd be for any function right marketing right that's a problem so if you and usually we have this feeling ugh we know that's not the right person but there's so many reasons why we can resist letting them go or finding someone new right you know but the sooner you can come to grips with that's not the right person they just don't trust them and need to find something different then that will help

move things along so let's but let's say you've got someone on the team and I do believe if you want to make a significant change there's two things you do need someone who's dedicated to it and the CEO or and the senior person needs to be involved in some way um in that case let's say you have like a sales you've got a sales team that starts it's like a small one generally if you have a business that's working come some rules of thumb would be most companies don't Define their call Niche or niche specifically

enough all right we still are kind of targeting too many types of companies too many types of people give that an example well let's say that if I'm a uh a CRM company right like the sales tax what Salesforce does yeah okay let's just say like a sales application uh or sales um rather than saying hey any company with sales people could use this it's just too broad and you already there's a lot of competitors everything is competitive now it's much better to kind of get really really focused on okay if you have even five

or ten customers but which ones really have gotten the most value from it paid the most um and they were kind of needed it the most and just focus on that type so it might be let's just say um customers who have commercial like Commercial Banking customers with very specific types of uh like Financial team uh customers or if it was you know instead of healthcare when I say hospitals instead of hospitals it might be hospitals that serve uh like do corporate benefit packages so you try to be more and more specific because when you

do that it makes it a lot easier to find those types of customers a lot easier to understand their problems and a lot easier to kind of create messaging that appeals to them so do you want to be a big fish in a small pond it's a lot easier to make that a lot easier to make the pond smaller than the fish bigger oh good okay this is what we call it's in Portuguese is p i see it's a very few ideologic link is like uh ideal client uh how does it say in English I

do your customer profile I do customer profile ICP yeah in Portuguese is pic okay I read it in this book yeah and when we do you think we must Define first this ideal client and then the model or the model and test and Define the ideal client well the character comes comes from either direction like what's working today because sometimes you have a model that works and you're like we gotta change the type of customer and sometimes you've got a customer that works and you're like you need to expand the model so ultimately it's kind

of like in in baseball in the United States you say what's more important the pitcher or the catcher well they're both important so which one do you feel more confidence confidence in um but usually let's say you have an ideal customer typically the easiest way to grow revenue is this is a just a generalization is to try to do bigger deals to go up Market now this assumes that you are doing more of a people like a sales process that involves people right there's lots of companies that have sales that they're very small kind of

transactional sales and they may be selling online in that case um so let's ignore that case right now if you have people involved it's usually if people can only do so many activities whether they're meetings or emails proposals you grow Revenue by doing fewer bigger better deals okay let's take a step back what is an ideal client for you it's like there is any definition for it um I mean it's who buys it's who buys and spends the most is the easiest one to buy yeah so there's two if you think about um two things

what typically who is the fastest to buy or like the highest win rate the ones who are most eager to buy and for the most money okay right so in other words you create the most value for someone and I think it's very important to differentiate what's the difference let's say you've tried to sell that in a small number like even five customers and one of them buys and four don't um or maybe 10 customers to buy or you have 10 customers maybe two are great and eight are not that great what's the difference between

the companies where you're to whom you're in nice to have how is that different to the companies where you're in need to have because if you're a nice to have at least in business to business they're just not gonna buy there's too many other things going on and you one clue that you're nice to have to a type of customer is let's say you do it at a demo and they're like that's cool and they don't call you back they don't need you right you're nice to have if they you can tell a customer that

needs you they find you they're like oh okay I get this can you give me information great they're helping Drive the sale usually or at least they like it's easy to forget it it can take a lot of energy to for a company to implement start to evaluate buy and Implement something it is a lot of work and the bigger the company is it's incredibly hard so they have to need you really need you for them to go through all the effort to buy you and do something with you so um I I I read

in your book and and you teach us a model of uh how you did it in Salesforce you you got a lot of Elites you send a lot of emails who got some responses then you started qualifying them instead of just calling them to sell something after the qualification you started to to try to sell to them exactly what is the the best model uh for you to implement in a company overall talking generously yeah by the way I feel like we should start getting up and dancing soon with the background music yeah yeah and

there's some dinosaur walking behind you sometimes yeah yeah I heard that you're not candy maybe they can bring some in well again so it's kind of saying like the best model is like asking what's the best uh eating system should I be beating like you know diet like okay perfect vegan or paleo or uh vegetarian or carnivore or well it depends on the on the person it depends there is no best it depends on this is like self-awareness and self-knowledge is really important so for some companies if it's a you know complex sales or hard

to explain what you do often like services companies than having a Content first model like inbound marketing content to explain it for you helps um so there's a lot of like navies but I think it really comes down to really I think people want just an answer right just tell me the answer and there is no magic answer it has to you have to learn you have to try things you're going to do things that don't work right you're gonna try hiring certain people that don't work out before you know how to hire people who

do you have to try selling bigger deals and that not work Until you realize how to do it maybe try selling things online and that doesn't work until you figure it out so just I think even towards getting the right model for someone because I understand it's going to be a journey it's going to be something that honestly is going to be frustrating usually frustrating more often than not frustrating confusing every day you'd be like I don't know what I'm doing it's kind of like life yeah you know so but uh you are saying like

there is no best motto for every company but like is there a wrong model for every company yeah let's talk about um business to business companies that have more of a product type so I think let's go back to fundamental principles and this is actually any companies you have to start a sales specialization because nothing else will work very well unless if you don't do this and the way I explain this is at least in sales the history of sales was sales people had to do their own prospecting sell their own customers and manage accounts

this has been changing I think it's just the the legacy of sales and I don't know any sports team in the world let's say a football team do you call it soccer or football here soccer soccer okay soccer I don't have any soccer team where the coach would go to the team and say look everybody attack and everybody defend yeah and everybody play goalie it doesn't make any sense so why would we tell all us all our sales people to Prospect and close and manage accounts and maybe get website please so that's where you start

is what are the jobs that need to be done and dividing the team up so that everyone has a specialty so if you have where you end up with is you typically have in a B2B model some outcome Prospectors doing outbound lead generation some inbound kind of lead responders responding to uh with leads coming through a website or social media both of those are typically Junior roles and they pass the good opportunities good sales meetings to sales people who are kind of assigning new customers after that you've got different jobs people who are renewing implementing

customer success account management that's the starting point okay so then going back um part of this is the idea we need to separate the idea of lead generation from sales people so sales people generally shouldn't Prospect much again that's another kind of Legacy approach that doesn't work as well as it should so if we say look the driver to your business isn't the number of sales people you have it is lead generation lead generation could be for new customers it could be kind of upselling for current customers all right so let's go back to the

model you mentioned which is if we have a way to drive leads in a predictable way it could be through marketing could be through outbound prospecting so let's just drive those and then let's have a process a junior person typically filters them right so if it's an outbound prospector they're only trying to get the in fewer bigger better opportunities to pass to their senior salesperson if it's if it's a marketing driven lead sort of an inbound kind of lead responder they're filtering through a thousand webinar leads to find the five good ones to pass to

a salesperson that's really important because sales people just they're not wired and they're not they shouldn't have to go through a whole bunch of random leads and uh to sort out and do their own qualification it's just not a good use of good time so for sales people they're much better to kind of have pre-filtered leads or meetings that they can take focus on and then move them through the sales cycle and then you can take each of these steps each function the outbound prospecting or inbound lead response or sales and break that whole job

into its own set of steps you mentioned outbound prospecting and not yes identify your ideal customer build the list run campaigns email social media calling whatever get responses set up meetings kind of pass the Baton that that set of steps would be different for each job you've got that ultimately is incredibly important to get the machine like the assembly line going you have the right people the right jobs defined so they can work together as a team and the handoff between teams is done in a smooth way see uh Beckham back on 2009 I think

I started doing a lot of code calls I was cold calling all days all day where are you selling I was selling uh I was like a financial advisor oh yeah in Brazil that's a hard one yeah that's a hard it's a complex sale right but in Brazil we had uh almost 500 financial advisors in all country so nobody knew what was a financial advisor here yeah that's not many not many uh so in in the states everybody know everybody knows what is industry yeah there's probably 500 financial advisors in you know one square mile

of Los Angeles yes and here nobody knew it so we didn't have all uh to only sell but to teach them what does it do and stuff and I did almost 100 calls each day every day I was calling and and I did it like for maybe three years and I got results but it was uh very hard because I did like 100 calls and I I stayed all day calling only to talk maybe for 30 minutes or an hour tops with a good possible Prospect to become a client maybe and after I got some

results I started hiring some people and I started to like cut in Parts the process dividing so there was someone cold calling and I called myself hot calling so he could call it and I went to the meeting so my day was only use it in the best way possible negotiating yeah and so this was how I grew and then I uh had 50 financial advisors in the office I saw this business and all this stuff but As I Grew using cold calling and when I was reading a book I for the first time read

the term code calling 2.0 it was like very different for me what is the code calling 2.0 exactly for you what is the difference between this one and the code calling 1.0 yeah I think the difference is because when I started at Salesforce I did some cold calling as well and I I've done cold calling before um actually I did I sold ads for the uh School newspaper when I was in Stanford and I had a painting business for summer and I would knock on doors and I did a couple of things but I never

thought about it as a system salesforce.com is the first time that I sat down to do cold calling that way and you know at that point it didn't work for me um at least the traditional cold call um cold calling does work and it still works today it just have to be the right market then right there's a lot of conditions it for me it didn't work I didn't like it um so what I created was using email at the time uh in mass email at the time in the executives to get responses so for

me creating a system to get a lot of appointments every month without having a cold call was the idea of I mean I hated the term cold calling 2.0 I just couldn't think of a better one basically like getting appointments yeah without having to pull call now I did do a type of cold call I called mapping calls because in this case again I was selling to companies rather than individuals and so a lot of times the hard part was finding the right person so if you're selling to um you know IBM who do you

even call like who'd even call because they might have if you're selling to this VP of sales there might be 20 VPS of sales yes and so I would call in and could have asked around like hey who's the per like like a lost lamb I'm just a bit lost like I'm trying to find you know the head of something or other like and then I would get routed around by the time I got referred to them it wasn't cold anymore because it was like the the the CEO's assistant would be referring me to the

CTO but uh I think I'll try to do is say like is there a systematic way to get up quality appointments and quality is more important than quantity that was different than the way that people had done it blindly with just doing lots of calls you know it's like more in the past and people still do this which is oh calling is not working do more calls and today's version is emailing is not working send more emails we're only getting a 0.5 response rate we'll send more like come on you know you got to stop

back and rethink how can we do something different so we're not just trying to do more of something that's not working you're asking me uh no I'm just saying people's rhetorical right yeah I mean I kind of went to my mind like in parenting what am I doing and parenting that's not where it is lots of things lots and lots of things no but but I really understand you because this is uh something I I almost on a daily basis from a lot of companies like Cinemark work harder yeah arrive earlier and all this stuff

I mean I I have a bit of a digression because you said work harder right so um maybe I had a list of questions maybe not but the thing is something has changed the last two or three two couple years with the pandemic it was already going to change but this just brought it Forward right this um technology is on this this trend which is only going to accelerate more apps more content more messages more stuff you know our brains are struggling to keep up the pandemic accelerated that because Moore went online and we're doing

more stuff on the screen so our brains um there's just more anxiety too there's a lot of things going to eating at our energy levels our emotional energy levels or our mental energy levels and so I've noticed a lot of Executives and haven't been through this or just like more tired than ever okay there's also more responsibility so it's not about even like physically moving it's just this kind of emotional mental load on us and so energy like to me like tactics and strategy important but even more fundamental is kind of the emotional smarts of

executives do uh I can read a book but there's something different now which is okay do I does this feel right do I'm not just thinking about it like I can immensely think of the right thing to do because it feel like do I have the energy to do this do I have the energy to create a good relationship with my team do I have do I have the energy to create a good kind of real relationship with my customers when you're tired and exhausted think about this like when I go home if I'm tired

and exhausted it's easy for me to snap at my kids or you know I could say to my wife but then she'd bite my head off but uh you know it's easy and I see that if my wife is tired she'll snap you know if if I'm an employee why would I want to work for a company when I go to my meeting with my manager and it feels like going to the dentist if my manager or executive is tired and exhausted it's like going to a dentist right especially over over uh Zoom calls so

to me it's even more fundamentally now which is new it's always been there but now it's even more important is this idea of emotional smarts kind of personal energy or executive how do you take care of yourself how do you take care of the team how do you create relationships over over uh digital relationships now that feel real because we can't really go back to in person as much and everyone's kind of like busy tired exhausted yeah but you see you adding more work isn't going to solve that yeah perfectly pointed to the problem like

it's really a problem I think a lot of people I know are eternally uh exhausted but how exactly everybody with kids right usually yes yeah and usually they're on the low side oh yeah that's a hard end but what may be the solution to not uh resolve all of that but start to improve a little and become from a company perspective start to be less uh exhausted from time to time and work better not only harder yeah and it's a great question so I don't have a single answer but I've got some ideas I do

some things that do work I'll give you a couple so one of them is and there's this weird thing in corporate culture and I'm not as familiar with Brazil this way but in the states of a CEO feeling like I need to appear uh clear and confident to my people to my Executives so that they don't get scared okay because they're leaning on me to provide vision and Direction you mean the leader showing the confidence right I know okay I know what we need to do we're gonna do it and the team the meanwhile leaders

get scared and have doubt and anxiety and and they're human like this it's ridiculous to think that there's some leader who doesn't get nervous scared and have self-doubt and anxiety that's that's not true that's an illusion like what showing confidence okay but by showing confidence you mean uh showing people you know the way you're leading the way and this way is the the way that will take us to where we want to well it's I'm a leader I want my team I don't want my team to be scared okay [Music] also I don't want to

look weak to my team also or to my investors right so there's a lot of um but at the same time the executives they're like okay I need to show my my CEO that I'm confident that I can do this I can't show my weakness I'm at my own doubt because I don't want them to lose faith in me so it's kind of like they're both sides are lying to each other about the same thing and like just wasting a lot of energy uh kind of like this the shell game now look you you want

to practice confidence right it's kind of all right I'm feeling uncertain especially if you're most most people and executives are often in situation every day like or parents right I don't know what's going to happen today I don't like some problem can come out of the sky and so there's this this practice of self-confidence and belief but it's when it goes too far where it's not being authentic it's kind of like putting on a mask to help to change I'm scared because I'm scared that my team will get scared so I think it's for leaders

starting and higher the better because they set the tone is to start to say look um you know I don't just be more honest open about I don't know what's going to happen or I'm I'm I'm nervous about this and realizing too I think it does help that like we're gonna get through it somehow but or heck you know what hey everybody just so you know I haven't I've started a divorce all right I'm I'm just letting you know in case I see him off or there's a sick you know like every every human has

there's divorce death sickness um you know tax burdens Financial issues like there's a whole list of problems people have and leaders have the same list so not I think it's okay it's healthier to stop being like they need to hide that part and just and I think the pandemic has helped people are mixing personal lives and business lives more but to open up and kind of be more real that way and maybe whether that's with problems or maybe just joking around like why are board meetings so damn serious it can be like not in Brazil

like I'm on a board of a company in Brazil and new Beanie and there's a lot more life sometimes it can be just so boring and serious like why why can't people to like joke around um being a little silly that's a good question to be honest and still yet having that confidence of having experience and and it's being a bit more of just a person interact with other people versus the business person interacting with other business people so whether that's your team the market so I think one of the most under used resources that

a company has is not having their leader or leaders online in some way sharing themselves a mix of like business advice or life advice it doesn't really matter as long as they're kind of being themselves online and I think that's something that is missing in a way to kind of help scale themselves they're creating more connection to their teams and to their marketing customers digitally because that's just where a lot of this is going so yeah yeah that that's one place to start that's kind of a long answer to a yeah that's a good uh

reflection because I really talking uh using myself as an example sometimes I feel extremely tired and I I feel responsible for the company yeah people and I don't want to show people that I'm tired and instead of working less or taking a nap or something I do the opposite I work more to show them like the way I want them to go yeah naps are awesome I mean why people should take more naps right I'm trying yeah you know it's like are you taking a lot of naps nowadays uh not as many as I would

like just because like school schedules and it's hard for me to know how's yours schedule today like your daily today basis pretty nice these days compared to the Past um actually I have on YouTube there's a couple videos it's like if you search on YouTube for Darren Ross day in a life they're from like three or four years ago which is like crazy but today it looks like I get up at 6 30 in the morning 6 30 yep school I do most of the school can I get kids ready and we have a a

nanny there's help but still like from 6 30 to like nine it's either getting kids ready taking the kids to school and then um after that I usually so a lot of days there's a one five-year-old stays at home three days a week so play with her for a while and then I usually do some work um I don't know there's always like stuff there's always like [ __ ] to do like it's annoying like I had to pick up passport to this or I got to drop the dogs off here and do some email

um try to go for a walk exercise and then there's more kids pickups play with kids the afternoon dinner put the kids to bed talk to my wife uh hopefully for a bit and try to go to sleep so I don't work that much right now I Do by the way I do need to make money all right I started Salesforce but not early enough and having 10 children is a high motivation because we spend uh millions of hey Ollies a year so not not a million dollar US dollars but probably close to it on

the family per year for different reasons just it's amazing how it adds up it's unbelievable so I do need to make money but right now this period of um it's been a couple months there's a few months where I'm kind of taking a break where I just don't have the energy yet I don't feel like it's more of like a feeling an alignment or how to explain like intuition and other right words just say like it's just not time to kind of like dig in and I'm just kind of resting and try to take care

of myself mostly physically like sleep exercise playing um I'm not inspired to write much nope no I do have sometimes like I have a newsletter and I have some things there but the last one inspires you today not much honestly really yeah meeting people maybe like meeting people in person if I think actually meeting people in person like got to meet Thiago and he's here I got to meet Camila ferrani today for the first time after texting Pierre Sherman a couple days um we mean people um I'm reading a lot of like fantasy books so

are you watching fighting classes actually are you watching rings of football no I don't watch a TV much I it's just so much it's a much bigger investment like by the time people are asleep or in bed like hey there I just don't want to watch things usually on the airplane I watched some Black Mirror video but like were you always like that or like do you feel you were more inspired when it was there's definitely times I've been very inspired by things it comes it comes and goes right so very inspired to write the

predictable Revenue book and that was over a course of years um I'd kind of get inspired at different times and do a blog post and later collect them I was inspired to do the you know the books just different times you know it just has been you know I got burned out three or four years ago between like lots of young kids babies lots of kids just lots of total kids um supporting everyone physically emotionally financially and trapped in a business I didn't really like in the North American you know partner so I was just

burned out as a human and didn't want to create content and I've been burned out the pandemic helped I started to feel a little more inspired again like this emotional smart emotional executive energy has been inspiring to this moment I'm not like actually well talking to you helps but just in like the last few weeks it comes and goes like you don't feel that inspired but on the other hand what troubles you today I mean do you want a list uh yeah from top down yeah the top three things that troubles you I would say

um and it'll be everything like from outside well I think uh with your team like you you get tired like I don't even know you but I know that you're gonna have problems right because everybody does Okay so I actually don't I'm gonna replace yeah I think it's there's a lot of like Financial juggling it's always bothersome because I have so many kids and responsibilities and like money into countries and making money it's always for someone who wrote the book on predictable Revenue mine I make a lot but it's a very unpredictable like in lumps

right that's one um but I I also have a lot of uh having a big family lots of financial responsibilities has created I have a lot of financial confidence right I think a lot of people want Financial abundance but really even better is financial confidence that's one I would say though you mean you don't feel financially confident you feel financially abundant uh reverse right people people want abundance they want a lot of money yeah but even more important I think is financial confidence which is no matter what happens you can deal with it but it

but this troubles you today um it's not so much a trouble is it's like something I'm always like juggling it's like uh tiring it's also inspiring I I feel like I have learned so much but I don't know how to put into words yet it's more of a almost like a spiritual path like money confidence in how it kind of comes and goes right it's uh like I make a lot of money not through working in the number of hours and this has been true for years and years it's never been the number of hours

I work it's kind of this Tai Chi thing I do which is looking for kind of in my heart where do where do I feel the right path is and pursuing that you know and seeing how it comes up like I would never have thought the way that I would make a lot of money is by having children I make a lot of money because I had a big family I didn't make a lot of money and then have kids I made a lot of money because I had to with a big family that's why

I I was going to publish the book but then I like okay I gotta publish it and I gotta get a partner I gotta run you know it's like so and that's a whole other podcast I think um I think I'm troubled by I would like to be inspired I would like to have more energy but I just don't so I've been letting that go I've just kind of practicing being where I am and not second guessing myself and not wanting like I know that's going to come like I'm going to be inspired again and

I don't have I don't trying to control that or like fight that has not helped so I'm just like relaxing into it like the more I relax and kind of rest that will come and do things that feel good like meeting people talking to people um walking exercising it's going back to like just things that feel good that kind of feed me and letting the rest come which is very different than corporate culture and like the business culture which is if you want X you got to do y so I'm and for years like letting

go of this kind of linear equation which is again funny from the guy from predictable Revenue right so the way I live and the way I make money is completely different from the books the book works for businesses but not for me I think the third thing um those are two things third thing you know it's just general body tiredness like traveling jet lag I noticed M50 so just trying to that's like my main priority is sleep extra some exercise um and like my relationship with my children my partner my friends um and actually the

funny thing is all those will help me make money but it's not uh I don't have any it's like uh it's not linear right for me it's not working 10 hours and making X dollars it's very they're not connected I don't I can't explain it where I do things that feel right but then money comes from other places and that's been like that for 10 or 15 years but that's good yeah I mean it works for me I can't explain it though I I it's like trusting do you believe in a higher power yeah I

mean that that was my next next question like how do you feel spiritually yes do you believe in something 100 yeah I was just saying can you define it or something like you define yourself as something um so I did I've done ayawashed Ayahuasca or I wash them five times in like 10 years four times in Los Angeles one time in Scotland and it's impossible have you ever tried it no but I have a lot of friends yeah and it's like it's almost like how can you become a spirit temporarily to kind of look down

on life and every time he's different so through that I believe 100 percent I always I always did believe but then I feel like I experienced it you know being connected to a higher power how can I explain it I put a lot of stock into have you heard about the simulation Theory simulation life is how life is a simulation um I I think I did but I'm not sure uh Elon Musk I think made it more popular which is saying like um it's more likely that we live in a simulation because any any culture

that became Advanced could create you know uh Virtual Worlds that are indistinguishable for the inhabitants and you can replicate them you know create Infinity of them so it's more likely that we're in one of those than it is that we're kind of in an original reality I don't know if that's true or not but I think that's more likely than we're in Venus like uh some real reality what do you believe in it um doesn't I you know thing is it doesn't really matter because the thing is like we're it's almost like if this is

a game it's so real it doesn't matter no right life is real feelings are real it's like an interesting thought experiment but I haven't had any any God experience like did you have any experience like with something impossible happening to you yeah yeah a lot of times like it's through a lot of nudging of um I don't use the word God but say God or higher priority like um have so many kids right and that it's you know over my fears of having so many children and like just different and it's like amazing um other

nudges so yes um I've had messages um I mean I I got some message like this year God talked to me yeah yeah it was the the first time it was so crazy so crazy I talked to my audience one time and that's when I became a Christian we call in English and it was something impossible to happen and I was reading the Bible for two years and a half reading Proverbs and I started reading the Bible because I wanted to improve my business and Proverbs a lot of consoles for our life and then I

started making questions and I was talking to a friend and that friend made me like almost a challenge to ask if if God really exists and I went to my bathroom uh late at night and I said God if you exist give me a message in seven days and God didn't give me the mess in seven days but in the eighth day he gave me a message and a guy came to me and he started talking all about my past impossible things and then he told me something about the future and then a lot of

things started to happen and it wasn't possible because nobody knew what he told me about my past and this was the proof for me that God exists and everything started getting crazy in my life so for example today I am an entrepreneur I made a lot I make a lot of money I talked to a lot of people to 20 million people every month in Brazil but I feel my message is to in a way talk about God uh or a high power to people that want or seek for it but maybe is similar to

me because I I'm very pragmatic and I use it to be the one that feel that something bigger exists but I was not sure what was it so it's I feel it's part of my message here but did you feel something like that or you have any message any contact yeah I felt I felt like that kind of the Practical like I kind of felt like a higher power but didn't really believe it until 12 years ago 12 years yeah reached out and I had a very blind message 38 years yeah 38 39 around that

maybe 13 years ago okay I don't remember the exact uh but uh basically it was kind of like hey you're being a dumbass yeah you gotta do this other thing really yeah well I'm paraphrased they didn't do that but it's funny you just stayed that way it's like no I was taking the wrong track um and well I got to write my business it wasn't business um I think that the messages I've gotten from higher power around business specifically I've usually been like usually um I don't get a lot it's like hey it's going to

be okay you have to trust right and I think that and to kind of go for it less fear to practice like what what feels do what feels right even if it doesn't make logical sense so I'll give you an example like um just thinking back years ago we were we were gonna go on a vacation with the family okay um it felt it felt right to go on vacation to a place called uh Missouri and the plane you know with a big family I don't remember how many kids we had at the time like

seven I don't know there's a lot any trip costs a lot of money they take you know one plane ticket that's 300 times 12. all right so and that's and you need two cars so but I remember we we kind of like decided to go on this trip we booked the hotel the resort um and we didn't have money for the plane tickets they're like okay we've come I'd it'll just come if it's the right thing and I don't remember how the money came in but like two days before we were supposed to leave the

money came in from some place to buy the plane tickets like and uh a lot of that that has happened a lot over the years in terms of the money I get the money that I need not what I want UPS all the time all the time so by now after years take about seven years to you know just trust like okay um you know to if I try to think ahead and make a plan this is this is actually a very specific message from an Ayahuasca like three years ago if I try to have

a spreadsheet towards um you know let's say moving the family between countries and how to pay for that over six months because that's crazy expensive like again just the plane tickets is like fifteen thousand dollars alone much less um so that I can't make a plan to say here's how I'm going to pay for it I have to trust that going there is the right thing and that day by day if I just take each day by day it'll work out and it happened where like every day and I just worked out and like for

example like the you know the shipping company um they got some stuff wrong and so they cut the bill down by a lot and then they delayed the payment by two months so just things happen to like yeah it's like that linear way of thinking of if I do I need to do X I need to do y or that doesn't work for me um to accomplish big things right is someone about listening to my intuition which is really kind of the way I for a couple years I don't get messages from from my guides

or God directly the same way I kind of get it through feeling so they have me like practicing listening to myself like kind of it's just like a feeling in my heart or chest or stomach or some body it feels right can I do that and it'll work out and for me it can be hard to sort out fear you know what the fear versus it feel right so I'm still kind of learning through this but I I for sure 100 know that there's a higher power that life and our challenges are meant to kind

of us to grow maybe for my I don't know what it's like to be you but for me to grow it's more of a test and Challenge and a way to grow and learn confidence and belief not to make it easy wow it's so good to hear this from you it's very very special yeah congratulations on on the family it's amazing yeah I never I never wanted a big never it never occurred to me to have a big family but even to adopt but yeah having a big family that's very diverse and uh it's amazing

yeah it's really I really love my family and I never would have occurred to me when I was in my 30s or 20s I was like okay I'll have a family someday like but now that I've got something like oh my God I love them so much and yeah they can drive me crazy because anyone yeah same thing but I just I miss them and it was and that's I was two days ago two nights ago it's like crying in bed because I'm like life is sometimes so uh this goes back to there's so much

administrivia in our life right kids go to school I had like errands to run honestly like life I'm being kept away from the people I want to spend the time with the most and it's just that's like I mean that's like a big problem right now going back to the third problem which is how to um you know restructure that's like a next thing like a next uh I don't know Quest path thing that's um from God because I wouldn't have been feeling that if it wasn't kind of something to do next which is how

to restructure Our Lives to be able to do more things together which for us we have a vision move like moving to a farm in Scotland and uh and we've always really wanted to be outdoors and More in nature and have the kids out there and do homeschooling at least the younger ones right there's some kids who are kind of in college in high school um every kid's different but it's that's like next part of the path I don't know when that'll happen it feels more like a year or two but what I've learned too

is that any kind of projections or expectations of how long these will take are completely wrong one I don't know about you one more fun fact is that if I people talk about like envisioning and I anytime the only thing that works for me is I can kind of Envision the feelings I want if I ever try to Envision a specific future it never works out that way it works out some other way right so let's say I wanted to have more love and not be lonely when I was younger what would that entail like

I can't remember what I would have thought of maybe like being married I wouldn't have occurred to me it'd be like 10 kids oh okay I want to make a lot of money okay back when I was younger it would never have occurred to me I would do that because I would have a big family so then it's like and now if I can Envision it I know it's not going to happen that way it's going to be some surprising twist to get me to the feeling I want of Adventure find love or laughter so

it's um yeah the visioning thing doesn't hasn't worked for me that way see for me uh I learned something from that when when God talked to me on the eighth day and not on the seventh uh one friend told me it happened because God wanted to show me that he exists but the things happens when he wants yeah exactly so this happens to show that it will happen but not on our time now and the way we want it yeah because we're not maybe we're not in control this is what I believe in yeah so

cool but I need to ask you another question okay before we we finish here and it's so cool to talk to you with a lot of experience and Reflection from the life a lot of results a lot of pain a lot a lot of success also big family uh because I need my my help from a company because we sell a lot of b2c yeah we sell to the b2c much more than we start to beat your beat and I'll not go so deep into a company because of the time here but when I was

reading your book you showed us a good model for a bit to be that I implemented and it works really and I know you know it because you did it in a lot of companies but when we're talking on b2c uh do you think like uh there's a better model of doing it or at least some things we must have in mind or a rule of thumb we have to have in mind to don't make a great mistake or something when we're selling to B2 sealer like in large scale and low ticket when we can't

put like someone in the phone to sell something so cheap yeah you know the b2c is not my my real expertise but I will say that uh from my experience in b2c especially it's a lot easier for people to buy things especially courses and things they want to learn than it is for them to complete them yes and so this idea of customer success like first of all you can make everybody successful but really keeping in mind okay maybe we can sell something but how can we sell something that we feel like is actually giving

people the best chance to get the value from them knowing that people um will impulsively buy but then maybe they never actually follow up on it at all I mean some people will always do that so I think it's just trying to just always that that ever-changing what can we deliver that will make our customers successful um even um you know I just think of like online like ads like how does you know lose 20 pounds in part four weeks yeah I mean people can do that but how can you it's not like feel good

about your product because people it's really helping people at the same time it's easy to lose sight of that in the in the search bar we're trying to grow Revenue so we wanted to grow Revenue at the same time that we grow also customer success hand in hand especially as the world gets more connected in Word of Mouth and recommendations and all that continue to kind of uh become the uh people just talk you know so I mean yeah we we uh in the urge to increase Revenue we should not forget to increase the MPS

and the quality of the product this is your advice yeah I think too for a lot of consumers I would I would think that this is similar so in B2B it's um how can you go up Market too you know so some companies end up doing higher end courses or masterminds it's not right for every company but just thinking there's certain segments of this customer of consumers that want like a higher level of service or course or hand holding right under the den for you so that might be another way to think about evolving a

model so sometimes adding a part of the model that's not as scalable is actually good because you can give people more value make more money and give them better service okay without knowing anything about your business other than um so but someday you will visit us and help us a lot because I feel we we have a lot of things to do really everybody and the bigger you get the pie the more things that we need to do ah yeah of course Arrow do you have any like final message that you must live before we

ended um everybody listening to us yeah I mean I think that you know for me if there's something in you or you have a belief like I call it a knowing right um and knowing like maybe it's a knowing that you'll make a lot of money or maybe it's knowing that you you will have kids or maybe it's in knowing that you will get you uh your health will get better or maybe to knowing that you should be writing courses or you should to travel someplace there's so many types again this is I believe and

I've had these knowings um I have I'll give you an example like I always knew I'd make a lot of money even when I was I don't remember we made 20s I didn't know how um I also have this knowing that somehow I'll be involved with like a hit Musical song Someday I have no idea do play something I don't know I'm not going to be the one writing it maybe my daughter but I have no idea I have no idea it's just like this weird I don't understand this one but I think if you

have that trusted you may not and this is I've had the the music one for years and years so it might be something that happens in a year it might be 20 years but know that it's it's a real thing right and to trust that and to it you may not need to do something with it yet but I mean there's a higher power so it was um kind of directional things in your life that they've that you have and to trust it in the trust that the things in your life are there to help

you to move forward someplace for the future you may not know where it is but they're there for a reason painful as it can be good advice good advice and arrow we usually gift one of the cousins here uh a gift a present for from our guest can you sign one of those books so we can present some of the audience yeah which one do you want to give away to the audience this one or this one sure I might as well go with the uh this one yeah okay so Adam Ross will sign this

book for you and arrow thank you so much all talking Portuguese now to finish the episode okay okay if uh anybody want to follow you your content your newsletter uh how can people uh discover you yeah I think the best place is he the previous event.com because okay the business here in Brazil and I think for even for my other content my newsletter they're gonna translate it into Portuguese here okay so we'll leave the link below thank you very much Arrow ciao [Music] [Music]