Trauma Specialist: Do This to Release Your Trauma’s Negative Energy & Rediscover Yourself!

trauma's negative energy that you carry the more you release it the more you you become but there is a way to release it I have a very very special guest today MD psychiatrist therapist speaker and Trauma specialist and author of a newly released Memoir to be loved Frank Anderson Dr Frank Anderson good to see you like a 32 is when my life fell apart I was just too disconnected like wow Frank you were so so far from you when we make decisions from parts of us that are trying to protect us or please others or

please others and a lot of that is fear of loss of connection in here Our Truth our authenticity is silently screaming inside what would you say is the number one emotion that blocks us from peace Harmony and ultimate happiness shame I think it's Shame Shame is so toxic and shame is usually the result of relational trauma what happens if we sweep it under the rug we run away from it what happens to everyone if we do that I'll tell you what happened to me we'll start there welcome back everyone in the school of greatness we

have the inspiring Frank Anderson in the house who is a Harvard trained psychiatrist a renowned trauma expert and an expert on ifs and cptsd among many other things around how to heal trauma and I'm so excited that you're here I saw this stat online that said 70% of adults in the US have experienced some type of traumatic event at least once in their life that's right that is you know majority of the US population and I'm assuming that's similar around the world yeah and I'm curious how do we you know to start it off a

big question how do we really face the things we've been running away from our entire lives so that we can integrate these traumatic moments memories or events in our life that have caused us to run away from them or chase things to fill an empty hole or traumatic Hole uh experience in our life how do we really start to turn around and face these moments that are so crippling and create so much fear and stress within us yeah how does that process even begin what it typically begins for people when their life falls apart yes

sorry to say that there's a massive breakdown right people do not come to therapy because they're like I have unresolved childhood trauma nobody goes it's because I'm drinking too much my wife is you know divorcing me I've had an affair I'm hitting my kids like people start real like they kind of hit their bottom to say okay it's time to do something different right so that's the way most people get into this I'm trying to bring people in in a different way like hey we all have some form of trauma like and you know the

word trauma is activating for people right so I don't have trauma like in in the general public I don't have trauma you know not me I'm not weak that's not me so there's this avoidance of the word there's an avoidance of dealing with the pain move forward you know why go back what's the point so so I'm trying to teach people educate people like maybe you can do a little preventative medicine here like what if we looked at this before it became a disaster in your life that's powerful and I can relate to that because

um I don't know it's about 11 years ago I finally started getting into opening up and facing the parts of me that were causing shame resentment anger fear stress overwhelm and breakdown in my life and it was a a storm of multiple events from a breakdown in an intimate relationship a business relationship and then me taking it out on the basketball court with my anger on others who were just like you know random bystandard um to where a friend was like Hey I don't like the way you're showing up and I and it allowed me

to look in the mirror and say man all these breakdowns the common denominator is me right you know yeah but I didn't want to acknowledge it I wanted to blame everyone else that's right I wanted to say they don't understand me they don't get me they're taking advantage of me they're abusing me that's right they're whatever it might be it's pointing the blame at others as opposed to looking within and when I had these different events that caused me multiple breakdowns and someone confronting me that I cared about right I was like oh maybe I

should take a look at myself yes and that started the journey over the last 11 years of healing that's right and healing is a journey it's not like it was overnight and I'm like I'm Healed right but allowed me to start diving into these different therapeutic experiences that have given me Harmony and peace and wholeness back yeah and I and I want and I know this has been your mission for a long time to to help people heal from traumas and one of the things is I know a lot of people that say I had

great childhoods my parents were great I beautiful loving families and relationships and maybe they didn't have big tea traumas but they had little tea traumas right that cause them to be avoidant resentful get into situations where they allow their boundaries to be crossed over and over again they become doormats things like that so what is the difference between big tea trauma little tea trauma yeah and should we be thinking about addressing both of them 100% it's a great move it's a great shift that's happening in culture and society and you know friends of ours mutual

friend Nicole laa is a perfect person that's like hey maybe when you're ignored hey maybe when you're yelled at that can have an impact too right so she's a a perfect person that's bringing that awareness you know for people who know about the a studies the adverse childhood experiences study big study here in California right and they looked at kids that were growing up in alcoholic families kids that had divorces there was physical or verbal abuse in there and all of the problems that these kids had growing up and all the cost bigger deals to

the medical community like oh that's when everybody started looking so how many things what is that what is that called a ace the ace study adverse childhood experiences and how many how many I guess points are there in that or like oh I don't remember there's like they have a questioner and there's a SC a rating scale I think they're nine points but I'm not like nine if you had like your parents were divorced if you had sexual abuse if you were yelled at if you were or whatever it might be witnessed something that was

something traumatic yeah that's another I remember someone reading this off to me and I was like I think I've experienced every one of those things right and I was like does that just mean I'm messed up for life no if if everybody took the scale everybody would have a lot of them this is the thing that this is what I was saying earlier people get weirded out by the word trauma I'm using L overwhelming life experience yes it's it's more palatable for people I'm like have you ever had an overwhelming life experience well yeah like

of course bullied on the playground or any shamed at soand so or failing in school or not making the football team whatever it is so people relate to that word overwhelming life experience differently than some people are adverse to the word trauma because I'm not weak right they're triggered by trauma exactly that's exactly right so I'm trying to normalize that in the ways that I can and say look these things have an effect on us and we naturally have ways to try to protect ourselves they might not be the most effective but give yourselves a

break for the ways you're trying to protect yourself or push the bad stuff away I I do this like cavemen we we're wired like in the day touch the fire the fire hurts stay away from the fire you know it's like that so we're just automatically programmed to stay away from pain so bringing people to the pain they're like why would I do that right so it is counterintuitive I was talking to somebody the other day it's like it's like you're we do the uturn go inside and you're going against the current because the current

is stay away push it away get rid of it move forward sweep it on of the rug yeah and that's what our natural instinct is what happens if we resist looking at the overwhelming life experiences or traumas in our life and we we sweep it under the rug we run away from it what happens to everyone if we do that I'll tell you what happened to me we'll start there like cuz I was in therapy as you know starting at six years old your parents forced you to do this right as a kid you don't

you know the book opens like you're not going to school today Frankie like why we're going to a hospital for what I'm not sick you know and I went downtown for psych testing cuz I got caught my cousin's basement playing with her Barby Playhouse this was back in the day when being gay was a total disorder right so my parents well- intended by the way oh we have to make Frankie normal they sent me to therapy for six years as a kid because I got caught playing I thought the Barbie playhouse was cool the toilet

the little Furniture I was like a kid I I didn't know I wasn't like exploring I was exploring and at the at the time it was a problem so I was in therapy for a long time learned how to do boy things how to play with boy toys how to act like a boy like do baseball I did all this kind of stuff um and so I learn I was taught to suppress right I was taught to suppress what I ended up doing was marrying a woman which is what you're supposed to do as a

man right and so it was a kind of a mess like at 32 is when my life fell apart like you talked about yours right when you got married was there something inside of you when you're like walking down the aisle or I guess you're not walking down but when you're about to get married is there something inside of you that's saying like I don't think this feels right or were you like I'm excited and this is going to be my future forever I would like to so here's what it was like actually for me

was like this is what you're supposed to be this is what you're supposed to do I was doing the right thing I didn't even know what love was I was I never felt in love in my life I didn't even know that I was missing like I didn't know I was missing something I was like this is what everybody else is doing we were friends I really liked her as a friend but I didn't even understand what love was in that way so I just did the right thing I did what everybody wanted me to

do everybody seemed happy and I liked her you know what I mean you got along I got along and you know here's the thing honestly maybe not every gay guy could do this I could have sex with a woman it felt pleasurable like it was physically pleasurable I had an orgasm like I could do that so there wasn't even that that was like Frank this is a problem here do you know what I mean everybody's got their orientation on a spectrum right so it did I wasn't like walking receiving her at the end of the

aisle being like this is a problem stop this I I was just too disconnected I I feel sad about that now like wow Frank you were so far from you look what you did you know look what you were able to do so disconnected wow you know so that's what what is what happens in someone's life when they make decisions out of disconnection to please parents Society certain rules or standards versus being fully and wholly who they are and meant to be what happens yeah the difference it's a great question it's a great question because

the difference when we make decisions from parts of us that are trying to protect us or please others or please others and a lot of that is fear of loss of connection I'm going to do this because this is what I can see this is what you want for me and if I give you what you want for me then I won't lose you a lot of it is right A lot of it is fear of loss but you lose yourself you lose yourself or parts ofself you never had yourself yeah see this is what

happens with kids when parents are yelling or Screaming or drunk or whatever it is ignoring you you as a child have to choose them over you to survive to survive you have to choose them over you right so you learn you're the last one that's important yeah okay you're relating to that on some level me I think a lot of people are relate to that yeah we do that's what happen so we're kind of programmed that way and so we make these decisions in a disconnected way most of us do and then it falls apart

because this in in here Our Truth our authenticity is is screaming silently screaming inside because we're not living an authentic life how do you you know someone's watching or listening is saying you know I love my parents and I love my family and you know the family that I grew up with obviously everyone's a little dysfunctional yes but they don't support my decision of yeah whatever uh of me choosing to love this person they don't support my decision of pursuing a career that I love they don't it's against their Christian religion or something religion for

me to want to fully step into who I believe I'm supposed to be right whether I'm right or wrong about it but it's what I fully believe feels right to me that's right how do you have the courage to be who you want to be without disappointing letting down and disconnecting with your parents family and Community it's a it's it just happened to me recently with my mom I'll tell you about this a little bit later in our discussion together um we have a hard time with the end of things we have a really hard

time with an and like can I be myself and also love you can I be myself and tolerate your feelings of disappointment okay so we kids don't do and because they don't have the psychological capacity yeah or the emotional regulation or you can't do it so adults have a really hard time doing that so do parents you know they've never learned how to do it they never learned how to do it so this and is really complicated it's kind of black or white you either live by the standards or the rules or the code that

I live by that's exactly right or I don't know how to be with you right and I have to I have to truly like love respect myself enough to choose me over disappointing you that is not easy to do I'll tell if I'll tell you a story recently so my mom it's a lot in there about both my parents you don't you you know my dad was physically and verbally abusive to me my mom was kind of the passive bystander right you need that combination in order for it to happen and she won't read the

book she's like I can't read this book youa def it's too traumatizing you're defaming the family my father passed away and you know you're your heart you're destroying his so I said to her this was last week when I was in Chicago filming something I said mom is it possible for you to Love Him and acknowledge that I was hurt wow growing up I said if you if you can't that's okay wow okay I can now I actually love my father and he really hurt me for things that were more about him than they were

about me and what I said Louis was say I mean this is raw like right like do we ever stop healing no like this was last week I'm like Mom I chose you my whole childhood cuz I needed to when I came out at 32 that was the first time I chose myself over you wow and I'm doing it again I'm sorry I'm going to tell my story this is my truth and if I lose you over that I'm I'm going to take that risk I hope I don't because I love you I could love

you and know what happens and I hope you can too and it was a big moment for us and she Rose to the tell you she was 84 years old God love her wow she's like I love you yes you were hurt and I'm sorry I didn't protect you wow my gosh swear to God I such a gift that's healing it was hugely healing it was hugely healing for me it's like I did never expected that I had a moment with my dad at the end of his life which was hugely healing and then I

had this like last week with her and I was like right before the book comes out and she's like I'm going to read the book like okay mom so she was able to because of my my capacity to show up helped her capacity to join me yeah and it sounds like I'm assuming you didn't come from a defensive upset way of communicating you came from a courageous loving appreci appreciation I'm grateful for these things and an understanding of you know someone who is my my heroes my parents essentially definitely I can love them and be

frustrated and hurt by the things that they didn't know what they were doing also they didn't have the tools or the the skill sets to be able to teach because you were able to have empathy and step into their shoes right from their generation what they knew and what they lacked knowing as well that was part of the healing Journey for me was losing my anger I I carried anger for my dad for so many years anger hated him hated him and I got to the point of like like accept real true acceptance like when

you release the ener trauma's like negative energy that you carry it's a negative interaction and you you carry the the negative energy as a result of that the more you release it the more you you become right the more you release energy that's not yours the more you you become it enabled me to kind of like have compassion for him like that was you yes you that was your struggle it wasn't about me you know I was affected by it and I was able to kind of really accept him for who he is as opposed

to hold on to the hate because the hate was eaten away at me not so much him he wasn't caring it I mean he was affected by it sure right so to to have that healing allows you to hold the other person for who they are more with all the parts of them all the parts of them you may not like certain parts and may need to create boundaries and communicate this doesn't work for me mom and dad that's right and so I'm going to create a boundary here I'm not going to show up to

these types of functions or when you scream or get loud I'm going to remove myself from the situation or whatever it might be that's right you got to step up for you yeah but you can still love the other parts of them that's right 100% man this is fascinating you know one of the things that you've been a part of for I guess 30 years is the body keeps a score research yeah and you were talking about energy trauma being this energy that's stored with inside of us yes that's right H why does the body

keep the score what does that mean and how do we actually start to release trauma so that the energy gets out of our body and we can become more whole yeah that's one of my that's probably separate from bringing trauma healing to the world which is the big mess the big purpose that's not my purpose that's somebody else's purpose okay I'm I'm just a a messenger for that so there's the big purpose of bringing trauma healing to the world my purpose is showing people that healing is possible like you don't have to carry stuff that

isn't yours and doesn't belong to you you don't and that's so some therapies do that and some therapies don't okay so when you acknowledge okay I'm carrying stuff that isn't mine there is a problem process you know and it was bessel's book the body keeps the score is is not coincidental that it's been on the New York Times bestseller list more than any other book because people resonate with it during the pandemic people were sitting home making bread and reading bessel's book let me tell you they would you know so really and because it's resonating

with people the message is real what I the way I think about it is trauma is held in the body thoughts feelings physical Sensations so so the thoughts like I'm worthless I'm no good I'm a piece of crap like we internalize the view of somebody else if you're yelled at you worthless piece of crap you you internalize that I'm a worthless piece of crap so we internalize thoughts emotions you know trauma is overwhelming emotions and our body's the first recipient of it like our body holds that stuff so the body capes of score was such

a great title for Bessel because the body does keep the score but it's in all these different dimensions any sensory modality you can hear something you could see it you can feel it you can smell it you know our body takes it in sensory and it could trigger you and it holds well we hold it we hold it right and we hold it and then we develop all these protections to keep it away and and I what I like to teach in this crossover ways you can release it also there is a way to release

it how do you release it of of feelings thoughts and emotions that have been stored in your body for decades how do we let those things go that have been so conditioned yeah as a familiar habit pattern that has become who we are almost we've owned the identity 100% how do we change Decades of an identity and release yeah I have what I call now you know it's there's models of psychotherapy that I'm kind of integrated and now in this new world I'm like the four T's to trauma healing okay so I have the four

T's to trauma healing and I'll explain them to you right now first and we talked about the first one thank your trauma responses right the protective responses the protective responses the drinking the eating the yelling at your kids the suicidality the depression thank the anxiety thank you like think about suicide for a minute suicide doesn't suicidal part doesn't want to die they want to stop the pain yes they want to get rid of the pain I'm the last responder they say if it gets bad enough I can protect us by stopping the pain wow okay

so thank your thank your protective responses thank your trauma responses thank you for trying to help do those be called symptoms or just responses totally if you're you're in the mental health field you call them symptoms got it you know if you're in the coaching world or whatever you call them responses right everybody calls them but it's the same thing okay all the diagnosis are trauma responses really so thank them acknowledge them and thank them and you know what they say how do we thank that internally it's all this is like meditation if someone has

a thought if someone has a thought of like I want to kill myself today I I'm a worthless piece of crap no one loves me look at all these evidence of how I've been abused and neglected and taken advantage of my entire life no one will care if I die what's the process how do I thank that tell me more it's a curiosity tell me more I know you're doing this for a reason and I know it's helpful I want to learn more it's this active listening when I say thank you trauma responses internal Ling

yeah and it can be like close your eyes and go inside which people hate to do by the way like everybody's on their phones you know but you can write you can sit with with yourself for five minutes right it's go inside and it's weird people like I'll do this with trauma survivors people I work with go inside okay they pop out with it like that was two seconds let's do four you know and get people if you just stop there's so much about stopping and listening which is scary for people M stopping and listening

they're like I just feel nauseous like okay okay let's be with the nausea because Parts can show up in any any physical sensation and I'm just hearing you loser all right let's just be with I hear let's just be with your a loser let's just get curious about it and what how long has it been doing this and how is it trying to help it says Dad called me a loser if I call myself a loser then I can beat him to the punch oh okay let it you get that so people right people start

going wow they that's what they do they're like wow so this thing that I've hated is actually helping trying to help it's trying to help it's a false sense of helping right yeah if they did it's do the best it can do yes exactly so that's the first piece thank your trauma responses and appreciate them second is trust that you have what you need inside to heal you don't need to go to you don't need gurus you don't need other people to tell you what's right for you but we've learned to not listen to our

gut we've learned to not listen to our authentic self so I want to bring people back to trusting that that little voice inside that's like not I hate you you're no good those are the protectors the I knew this relationship wasn't right I knew there was something wrong here it's like learning how to differentiate listening to your gut listening to your intuition reclaiming that relationship with your wisdom right you can feel the difference like you're or you're a jerk feels different energy then this isn't right but you know as a six eight 10y old how

do you have wisdom that you can tap into they do those kids have wisdom raising my kids like when my husband would lose it for whatever reason I'm not saying I'm not blaming him cuz I certainly have lost it too but I'm just when he loses it they look at me like that's crazy kids no normal behavior they do so they have that wisdom too the ifs model believes we're born with it we're born with that wisdom and we learn not to listen because of Life gotcha right because of programming or rules or Society or

shut up shut down disconnect disconnect so we all have it let's reconnect with it that's the second step trust that you have with in you then there's this transform this is where the healing comes in Lewis the transform what doesn't serve you and doesn't belong to you there are three steps to this heal this is where the real healing of trauma comes in and a lot of this is rooted in the models of psychotherapy that I've trained in and Neuroscience knowledge okay memory reconsolidation is a type of Neuroscience that rewires our neural networks what are

those three steps share you you need to witness the experience or share the story and it's not just the words it's the you know the part that holds the trauma needs to share what it's holding with internally with me or with my therapist or with my partner or with a friend you need to speak it out and it's not just the story it's the thoughts the feelings and the physical Sensations I was terrified I thought I was going to die like so the was humiliating I had shame I had insecurity sharing it is the first

step because the part holds it all by itself once share the part that holds the trauma once it shares it oh I'm not the only one holding this or I don't have to be the only one that holds it so the first piece is share the whole experience not relive it be with it big difference because we don't want people to relive their trauma that's not to r- traumatize themselves no that's right don't re it's not about ret traumatizing it's sharing say it again not be with it it's be with it not in it okay

so we don't want people to relive it we want them to share the experience with someone you know with a loved one with a therapist so and then this happened and then this happened and it felt like this and my body felt gross or I was all tensed up anything else anything else so once the experience is shared then we want that's step one that's step one of transform okay second is we want a corrective experience Neuroscience knowledge tells us we want to disconfirm the trauma so I'm loved I'm seen I'm acknowledged I'm important whatever

the tra this trauma is we want a corrective experience if someone watching or listening is thinking that sounds great Frank but I don't have I can't find evidence that I'm loved I can't find EV evidence that I'm worthy that I'm you know but here's thought of here's this considered when the part says I'm no good I'm unworthy I'm not lovable either the self says I love you like I can see that little boy that was six years old I'm like I love him so the corrective experience can happen internally my adult now can say you

should have never gone through that that was horrible but if you've never learned how to love yourself how do you tap into that love that's the trust we all have it we all have it got it now it also can come from somebody else it can come from you to me like Frank I've known you for 10 years I love you you are you know and you're really talking to the wounded part yes you're not talking to me yeah you're talking to the wounded part so it can be somebody you know can be trauma heals

in connection yes because trauma is a violation of a relationship say that again trauma is a violation of a relationship is it relationship with others or with self both yeah both we disconnect from ourself to survive and other people we disconnect from to protect ourselves okay wow okay so this corrective experience is a relational repair it's a relational repair I even if the person's not there even if the person not there it can happen with somebody else that's what therapy ideally it's supposed to be a therapist saying you know or ideally it's the self like

I'm here now I'm an adult I heard what happened you shared it I love you I care about you and the part receives that yes or from I've had corrective experiences with my kids yeah when they've seen me in a way that I've never been seen before like we have children to grow ourselves also right so you get that corrective experience so once you've shared it once you've had some form of corrective experience and you can feel those Mo moments they're like you've had a couple of them here I've felt it from you when you

going like your body relaxed you go like oh man when it something lands that's a corrective experience got it it hits differently okay and it feels different right so we have when that part that traumatized shares its experience then it has a corrective experience then it's like I don't need to carry this anymore I got what I needed and somebody else knows it so that's where release is possible wow is that step three three step three in the transform then release is possible and and I say to people like let it let the part Let

It Go in any way it wants to and sometimes people's bodies literally Shake sometimes they're like oh my it's just floating up into the sky it's just like the energy it's energy release yeah I I mean for me this is resonating with me because I feel like I've had a few of those energy releases in big ways over the last 10 11 years that's right the first time when I opened up about being sexually abused when I was a child by that I didn't know uh and held on to it for 25 years without anyone

knowing and I let it go it was like this release right um a few years ago prob three and a half years ago I was going through a challenging breakup and I remember and I was doing therapy for I don't know six months with it intensive like five six hours on a weekend like you know experiential just like diving into all the parts of me that were blocking my ability to love yes and create boundaries that's right that's right and I kind of had this heart pain for years a few years that was coming and

going that's right yeah in this relationship kind of a tension in a ball feeling of pain in my chest yeah sometimes palpitation sometimes it wasn't there but I remember feeling it in this one conversation with my therapist yeah and something all of the sudden Clicks in my body that's and it's like something and it it felt like a pop and it like released throughout my body 100% it was the weirdest sensation that's right and I haven't felt that pain right since that moment of release of corrective experience uh and sharing it and witnessing it and

it's so freeing yeah to let go of trauma it's amazing freeing isn't it yeah like because when and I get chill like as you say that I could feel it from you and I'm feeling it for myself I get chills throughout my body because there's nothing like that's how you become you again oh man you don't change you're not become some somebody else when you release you reclaim yourself you reclaim yourself in this amazing way you do it's true and I love that you've you've had those moments like serendipitously because of the work you're doing

I'm saying there's a method here yes if you do and I'm always watching those three I'm making sure those three are happening even if we're in a conversation so it can happen I want the world to know this can happen for you too it does you don't have to do 33 years of therapy like I did like I'm a therapy lifer right it can happen like this is the method these are the steps that transformation you feel it it's real and you don't carry it anymore you don't carry it anymore it's like you're like walking

it's like people who have taken anti-depressants when they kick in they're like I'm Different I I'm I'm not depressed anymore like it's kind of like that when you release that trauma you're like the I'm not in the world the same way anymore right so that that happens those are those three steps that that need to happen for healing to occur right the last of my four te's is now take back your power this is take back your power become you you you're more you every time you release something and this is something I love to

talk about which was totally new for me leis around the death of my dad and the healing that I did with him I told you earlier about my mom and the like this healing moment I had with her when she acknowledged what happened and she didn't protect me towards the end of my Dad's life he said something to me and I'm not going to say what it is because it's like the big it's like the moment in the book where it's like oh my God it was incredible moment what a gift for me to have

this exchange with him was the first time I felt love from him wow and I felt love for him holy cow it was in first time and this was two years ago okay not everyone gets this moment though no I was such a gift I was like I think that's why I'm here and I think that's why I've went through this is because many people don't get that you can still release without having the relational correction with the person yes you can you don't have to do it with the person I happen to be lucky

enough to do it with him to have that and I felt love for him even after all that he had done to me I felt love and it was amazing talk about freeing to feel love for someone who was brutal to you it's like it was the most freeing thing I ever felt it's like that that didn't even affect me because I I can love someone who harmed me is so powerful it was like a drug to me cuz I was so beyond it that even what you did doesn't affect me anymore cuz I can

love you despite of that is there ever power in not loving someone who hurts you or abused you as opposed to saying well they sexually abused me and they manipulated me and they gaslighted me for decades of my life and they really psychologically mess with me for 20 30 years I'm just going to love them accept them for who they are and just you know not stand up for myself like is there here's the thing I love that you're asking that question cuz it's so controversial and I I know you had somebody on recently has

a different view on that I'm going to be meeting with her soon we're going to have we're going to do an event together yes okay because Dr Romani she just has a different view about this and I love that we're going to have a conversation about it because differences are really important and useful yes okay we don't need to we don't need to stay in the US and them of things CU we'll never heal that way we will never it's the end 100% so I think there are people that don't want to and they don't

have to it's not a quirement you're this this piece that I'm talking about is is loving and it's not like oh no big deal it's when you've truly healed you're not carrying it anymore yes okay so it feels different and forgiveness if I use the f word forgiveness because people get really activated by that word is a choice and the thing that people don't understand and I didn't get it until a couple years ago for the forgiveness was me released sing what I was caring about my father it's not forgiving his behavior no it's not

condoning it was I'm not carrying the stuff about him anymore forgiveness was more about me than it was about him wow people still have a choice to do it you know oper talks about this forgiveness and Tyler Perry talks about this too with all the trauma that he's gone through so it's for if you choose to it's more for you and if you don't want to you don't have to some people are like it was too brutal it was too painful I'm choosing not to forgive and I'm like that's okay it's whatever works for you

I was lucky to have this experience that I never thought I would have to be able to love someone I never thought I would love somebody who harmed me and the thing that was even a weirder bonus was I started forgiving myself for all that I had done to my kids to my husband to myself so my loving him still knowing what he did not forgetting that allowed me to love myself differently interesting because who hasn't harmed or been harmed right this is the Us and Them piece that I have a mission to kind of

get rid of I know that's a big mission I get these I get I hear voices let me say that I hear voices a lot it's like love Compass love connection unity love connection Unity bring trauma healing to the world I'm like shut up it was like stop you know um Unity kept coming up and I didn't want Unity to come up I was like oh that's a hard one The Divide of us and them and the message was like Unity Unity so this was where is safer right it's so much easier wouldn't you rather

be on one side and blame somebody else of the other so much easier wow but now I'm free because I've forgiven myself for staying too long in relationships right right guilty of that right but but so what if you choose to forgive you release what you're caring about the other person but it gives you an opportunity to kind of release what you're caring about yourself I saw this quote of yours yes it said trauma blocks love love heals trauma yeah trauma activates an internal Cascade of reactions that blocks love connection and creativity and in turn

love has the power to transcend trauma heal our pain and reconnect us to our self capital S our source and to each other how can we is it possible for us to truly love ourselves in others if we're holding on to traumas I'm going to say we're not going to use all or nothing uhhuh and it's all degrees okay um I am so much further along in this process than I was 20 years ago was I able to do 40% of that 20 years ago probably can I do 85 90% now yeah am I 100%

uh probably not ever right so yeah that that statement like when I hear that I was like oh my God that's so powerful like thank you for sharing it with me I kind of feel like it's channeled information honestly and I've lived it and I've spent my whole career studying it so yes I think that is entirely possible I do believe it I believe it wholeheartedly that's why that's why I'm on this Mission I'm on this Mission and I I'm not the only one on this mission that I'm very clear about you're on this Mission

there's so many we're coming together in a different way there's all these people are coming out of the woodwork like the people in in the Ivory Tower are showing up in general public we talked about this ear the you know the influencers are showing up and coming you know these motivational speakers are coming together in this way because I think it's a collective I think it's a collective to do this yes and I think it's I really do think it's possible and I'm not doing it alone tell you that but I'm one of the people

and so are you that are doing this yes I think it's totally possible and I think that that's what's going to heal what do you think it takes for someone to truly love themselves is releasing the stuff that blocks that that's the the trauma blocks love love heals trauma I kept every time I wrote I was I wrote transcending trauma my other book during the pandemic and I'd right right right right right go for a run right go for a run I'm like such a runner and I'd hear trauma blocks love love heels trauma trauma

blocks love love heals trauma I'm like that is the truth because every time I how how do you love yourself if you're blocked by trauma how do you get rid of the trauma it's the cycle it's the cycle it's going through the four T's that I talked about it's going through that and each time you release something you've got more capacity in the beginning right each time you release it you expand your abil you expand your ability and it's like this cumulative thing it doesn't happen all at once it's not like a Hollywood moment it

happens cumulatively and early on when you're super blocked if you can find some loving connection M cuz you can help it's not your responsibility to heal me but your loving me helps me heal myself because love is contagious so if you are in a loving environment you can access yours and utilize somebody else's right so just as love is contagious so is hate 100% yes it is and that's why you got to really protect your energy and your relationship with people and do your best to shift conversations move away from those conversations and not get

caught in that cycle of anger and hate as well that's right it's moments like life happens in moments and so does trauma healing happen in moments doesn't happen here's something that you know I've heard people talk about it's like okay if you've had traumatic experiences yeah and you're a lifelong you know in therapy and psychiatrist like you've been in this work for every daily for 30 plus years or whatever how does someone continue to release without reliving and re-sharing the traumatic experiences so that it affects them so much some people say quit reliving it and

res sharing it all the time therapy doesn't work if you're always in therapy reliving it and you're not getting release and freedom then it must not be working that's right so how do we communicate it without being stuck in this I've been there for 10 years then why are you still stuck and angry and resentful that's right and there's a lot of bad there's a lot of therapies that are not trauma healing therapies I was in I told you um 11 11 years five times a week during my residency that was a lot a big

amount of therapy but it was it was the talking telling the story without release interesting okay aot therapy not release I I knew all about it I understood it I I was yeah I figured it out I was Stronger but I was still carrying it in my body interesting yeah so not all therapies have those qualities of release that's why that transform thing I talked about so important now ifs is not the only therapy that does that EMDR can do it ey movement desensitization and reprocessing I've heard great things about that but I've also I

mean what's the difference between ifs and EMDR and if you were if someone is experiencing trauma life what would you recommend first here's the thing so there's sensory motorcycle therapy there's Peter LaVine somatic experiencing there's a lot of different ABC you know everybody's got their initials ifs you know EMDR they've got their method they've got their method there's probably six or eight trauma methods H okay and nobody knows this when you go to therapy you don't know there's trauma methods and those should have a release component like psychoanalytic therapy that I was in didn't have

at that point a release component so I processed it without releasing it okay so so you weren't getting the full benefit of results I was better in a lot of ways I was able to come out you know I you know they did stuff my life got better but I was still carrying it you were still holding on to the body was still keeping the score the body was still keeping the score 100% yes interesting yeah it was so I I want to teach people that there is a way to do this and it's not

just telling the story it's not just Rel living it over and over again and a lot of people do that right it is there are these certain qualities I started this year uh called the trauma Institute okay and it's an integrative Center for bringing all the trauma modalities together integratively bringing trauma healing to the next generation of therapists and to the general public it's a a mission for me it's like I don't think one model is the right model everybody needs different things at different times so let's pull this resource together a lot of my

friends and colleagues have made these models and I'm like thankful for them to have made them thank you dick Schwarz who made ifs thank you Pat Ogden who made sensory motorcycle therapy thank you Gabor mate who makes compassionate inquire Bessel Vander coko brings Neuroscience Dan seagull like all of them amazing things like it's time to put it together in an integrative way and that's what I hope for the trauma Institute what is the the core thesis of ifs yeah and why is that something that you study and and teach so frequently yeah it was I

like I said I was in therapy a long time a lot of different modalities did E EMDR I did sensory motorcycle therapy ifs was different for me first because I grew up in a big Italian family and everything was about the group about the indiv idual interesting I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that right right and a lot of ethnic groups are like that not only Italian about the group the culture not the individual the individual doesn't matter the group matters the family matters so I grew up there and it was it

was so amazing for ifs to say go inside you have self and you can access that to heal so it was really powerful for me to reclaim me so I FS says we all have self energy we're born with it and it has inherent wisdom we all have parts to all different parts of us how many parts of us do we have it's you know I have a part that likes to run I have a part that likes to travel I we have a lot of different parts we have a lot of different parts and

there's positive parts and kind of wounded Parts yeah don't I love that you didn't say negative Parts oh because everybody's like bad parts you know I I worked there's no bad parts Dick's book bad parts right there's no bad parts we look at the positive intention so some parts protect some parts carry pain right I have a part that's a therapist I have a part that you know gets really stressed out and anxious you know so we what are the parts that protect what are they actually doing inside of us well they're doing these behaviors

and symptoms drinking too much over exercising overworking over yeah overworking reactive angry resentful protective yeah there be and the only reason they take on those extreme roles is because of something overwhelming is it a sense of control is it a sense of protection what is the thing control and protection yeah control and protection when we say when we do something obsessive or a particular way that we want to make sure it's done this way and it seems control that yes what is that saying about us it's saying what it tells me about us is that

I grew up in an controlling environment contr envir I grew up in a controlling environment and I intern i internalize control as a way to help that's what it says so they so someone thinking they're being helpful Yeah by being controlling the part it's like like the part like critic let's talk about critics like who doesn't have an internal critic in some way it's because you were yelled at or criticized and then you're like look how effective that is I was the recipient of that criticism I see how powerful it is and then some part

of us says oh I'm going to use that to control the kid in here who keeps crying because if he shuts up then I won't get yelled at wow do you see that so I'll suppress my feelings my emotions I'll do it shut up you idiot shut up you jerk if you shut if you're quiet we won't get yelled at so we use what's in our environment protectively and if we understand that then it's a different relationship with the critic not hate your critic get rid of it don't be critical anymore like who's ever stopped

drinking because you just said and for those of you who are old enough like Nancy Reagan just say no to drugs like doesn't work it doesn't work you know it's like no it's like oh where did you learn that how is it helping oh okay I get it are you interested in helping in a different way right would you be you want to work together here we can team up and do it differently because these parts don't like the way they do things they were forced to use what was in their environment it's just a

part of the tools that they know that they had access to yeah yeah and when we're young and we come up with tools like kids aren't good at raising themselves okay but that's what they do right they need sometimes they raise their parents sometimes they raise their parents that fascinating Y what happens to someone who is maybe the oldest sibling that has to take care of their mom or Father's emotions or lack of control or bad behavior or they need to go work at an early age to support the parent what happens to that type

of person who experiences that uh in their life yeah a so they become a Harvard trained psychiatrist that's one of the things I do like I was such a parentified child oh my goodness I was such a parentified child I took care of my siblings I took care of my mother I was trying to manage my father you know like so they become therapists they become healthare workers like when you learn that you have to caretake as a way of protection like if I manage to survive then if I manage you when you're drinking then

you'll maybe take care of me oh man but that never happens it doesn't happen but it's you keep searching for that but it's like the it's you're searching for right so if I take care of everybody maybe I'll be loved oh right so I be become a consumate caretaker like huge right we have a lot of caretakers in this world of culture and society and that like ER doctors like there's so many places where people caretake in an attempt first of all to focus on somebody else instead of themselves MH and secondly and an attempt

you're going to like me and love me and then then I'll get what I need if I take care of you I might get what I need in return so intentions are are it sounds good of like I want to be of service which is a great thing and a great intention but when it's I need to be in service with someone because then maybe I'll get love that's right that's right then you just keep doing you're chasing yeah love 100% that's why it's called to be loved like that was my whole life that's why

that title was so perfect if I if I'm of service from self it's not about me it's about a bigger cause I'm here to help from a different place what is self versus what being of service versus trying to get something Parts have an intention of protection and that's the difference there's a difference between I really do love helping people when I have to in order to get worth it's a different story O then there's like resentment and frustration and anger and then that's when you lose it on somebody like you know after all but

parents do this you appreciate me much I've done for you you know how much I done for you yeah exactly I mean that seems like a common theme for a lot of parents almost be for all parents but right I like people can resonate with that where it's like yeah parents were frustrated with me because I didn't listen or I was a ramb or I know I was like jumping on the walls half the time that's right and you'll hear you know people say that my parents would say these things like oh after all I've

done for you you don't appreciate me you don't you know you don't listen to me you're just take advantage of me right how that doesn't seem healthy but what what can parents do to realize okay kids are going to be kids and maybe it's not this perfect world every day where they're like listening to me and quiet and patient and well so how can parents shift their energy to appreciate bringing life into the world as opposed to needing appreciation from a 5-year-old right be so what ends up happening and um Dr Becky is somebody who

I know I don't know if you know yeah I've had on you I thought you've had around she's so good she gets she's a big ifs aligned person too and so she she really her parenting stuff is so solid I love what she has to say and a lot of it is parents often get activated about their kids' Behavior because of their own stuff of their history and my message is do your work so you don't say and I've said it do you know how much I've done for you I've said it I'm my parents

said it and I used to say as a kid I used to say as a kid I didn't ask to be born like that's what I would say to them when they would like shove this appreciation when I heard myself say it to my kids I'm like oh my God this is horrible like painful to do what was done to your you know but when I looked a little deeper like I If my if I behaved the way my kids were behaving entitled and not appreciative I would have gotten beaten so I want to stop

their behavior so it doesn't activate my own to want to beat them or hit them or SP them stop stop doing this because it's too uncomfortable for me because it reminds me of my history wow do you see see that and so that's the cycle the parents are in that they're not aware of so when you start doing this stuff to your kids and everybody does it unfortunately then it's like do your work I have done more healing in my life through my children than anybody else through any other therapists like they have brought this

stuff to my attention you know I started becoming my father in the negative ways in the negative in the wounded ways the wounded ways and that was that shot me into therapy for the third time is when I had kids and I started yelling at them and I was like I grew up with this the reason I had kids was to not to to give them something else and here I'm doing it and it was like when what was inside of you that was doing it because because when my boys would fight two kind of

rambunctious boys when they would fight can remember feeling Panic inside cuz if I yelled and screamed like that I would have gotten be so every time they fought my history showed up gosh instead of like they're boys come on guys let's behave to just like when you're not activated by your history you're like hey you know what we don't throw toys if you're upset use your words like there's a way to react when you're not activated yes the anytime you lose it it's about your history when it's intense it's yours I think I heard maybe

it's gab mate that said um if it's hysterical it's historical that's exactly right yeah it's exactly right it's hysterical it's historical yes that's correct and people don't know that because you're because it's like if you're seeing a situation two kids running around and hitting each other or stealing something from it and screaming and yelling m d and you're reactive yeah it's because you're triggered by an event yes that you haven't faced and processed fully yet correct from your past correct otherwise it would just be a neutral event and if it didn't happen to you or

if it didn't trigger you You' just say hey guys like break this up what do we doing you know it's like let's get to your room and and take a break people don't know that and people don't want they're like it it frustrates me that there's so many parenting there's so many books about kids Behavior there's not many books about parents Behavior Dr chaali is another one she's great she's also very aligned in this right you know she's she's align conscious parenting is powerful huge and parents are like these kids are blah blah blah versus

oh I've got work to do unresolved his how many parents do you think in America repeat the patterns of their parents unconsciously and have not done the work to create new tools to parent from a conscious way well most of us really I'm sorry most of us I did it I'm it was it drove me crazy to be a trauma expert like I teach this for a living people pay me money and I still did it and it's not it's because awareness does nothing for change really awareness does nothing for change it's not like that

not when it's trauma not when it's trauma because it comes up inside of you and it's it takes you over right I'm like like I I do know better I had so much self-loathing every time I lost it with my kids I WR later that night you're like what am I doing and yeah that's I'm out of Integrity cuz I'm teaching one thing but I'm doing the opposite so painful that's where I got suicidal in my life really the time that's the only times I got suicidal was when I did what was done to me

it was like I would rather be dead oh my gosh then perpetuate this I swear that's that it was so painful I'm like and PE and I could help people all day long because I was my history wasn't being activated you could see it from a separate hug situation give the best of advice in the world yeah I know what's I might do appropriate for a living it's ridiculous I do and then yet I saw myself doing it it was crazy when did you start to shift emotionally it sounds like the body was keeping the

score for you when you had children and for those years and you would do things that were out of Integrity with what you wanted your highest self to do that's right and then you would beat yourself up and self lothing and shame and guilt and resentment and all these emotions that don't serve yourself and becoming better so what was the process as a Harvard trained psychiatrist and a trauma therapist for 2030 years what was the process for you to get out of depression suicidal thoughts and overwhelm to be more of peace and Harmony when kids

would act out I just so I was like I was like you're on rinse and repeat Frank like you just you're on rinse and repeat how many years of there like I just did a keynote recently at the NW worker I'm like I'm wondering if therapy is the way to go like I've been it for 33 years like maybe it's not the right way but it's more about like so where you get into resilience I have been trying I will never stop trying I think we're here on this Earth in human form to have difficult

experiences have like to sorry sorry I think we're not only here to have difficult exp loving fun experiences too yeah but I think from a soul level we're here to grow and evolve and if you you I like the three I have my three hours you repeat it you repress it or you repair it okay so I've been one of these people I don't know why I'm one of these people who's constantly trying to repair constantly trying to repair right you and this is what we do with every moment we have a choice we repress

it most of us repress our trauma we repeat it over and over again or we repair it take advantage of those opportunities right and I'm a I'm I know now I know I never knew I was smart because I was criticized a lot I'm a smart person I know that and I still did it because my history was in me and now I don't like I am so did my kids are 16 and 20 and my son my oldest can yell and scream at me like any 20-year-old can I don't react anymore I don't how

did you learn how to not react but also not get take you know getting you know letting a boundary cross over where some you can't talk to me that way I'm going to walk out of this room right now that is really not okay I'm not going to tolerate this and I'm not going to engage with you when you're like this I couldn't do that before how did you learn to not let it boil inside of you and think this ungrateful child who I've given my life to I didn't learn it I healed it that's

what I did I tried to learn it I tried to learn it so there's a difference between analytical understanding versus physical wisdom that's right then the physical wisdom is releasing the trauma the physical wisdom I don't have to try hard anymore it's not in me the trauma is not in me I used to have this crazy startle my kids we have a trampoline in the backyard one would jump on me from behind and I'd freak out because of my startle when I like a trigger like if someone was a re it was like like this

and and I would say to them like hey remember Papa said he was hurt when he was younger that's why he reacts this way like I didn't want them to take responsibility for my reaction but I still had it but you didn't own it and release it I couldn't I didn't Rel at that point I didn't release it you know now I don't hold startle so much anymore because I it was physical it was a physical abuse I worked on early on and I released it and now I I don't hold the startle it's funny

we watched stranger things with my youngest son he loves stranger things it's such a trauma talk about trauma is tra traumatizing and my husband's jumping like a Mexican jumping bean and I wasn't I'm like I'm not I don't have jump scares anymore like I used to because I released that wow so it's like when you release it you don't get activated by it anymore wow so that's the that's the point I like I'm not done I'm not done but I am I am so much more myself than I've ever been in my life and I

could tolerate my feelings other people's feelings so much more than I ever am I perfect at it hell no but every layer that you release you're more you yeah and you're expanding your capacity for uncomfortable emotions yes you're expanding the ability to sit with them to witness them without being wounded by these emotions or reactions or or overwhelming life experiences but I told you with my mom I'm like look Mom if you decide never to see me again because this is too painful for you I can I'll handle that like that I was like that's

a right like I it's not what I want no it's not what I want but I can tolerate that because I'm choosing me and I deserve to be listen to prioritize and take I love myself yes enough my I mean I feel like there's a lot of people watching or listening that have probably experienced some type of challenge in family or relationships whatever might be where they have love and also frustration and hate with someone in their life right that's right family member and Uncle father whatever my grandparent whatever it might be right we all

do and my my intention is never to break people up right to get them to leave a relationship or end or create divorce that's never my intention yeah because I believe it is powerful to be family and connected even if there's discomfort or frustration or someone doesn't approve of Your Life Choices or whatever it might be so how can people not say screw you you don't understand me you frustrate me so I'm going to tell you that this doesn't work for me anymore I'm going to divorce you in this relationship family member friend whatever it

is how can they cautiously communicate in a loving appreciative way yes and create a boundary if someone doesn't want to receive that so or they're not kicking them out of their life forever so the screw you or kicking them out of your life forever is a protector Ah that's a protective response it's a wounded response it's I'm wounded so I'm gonna do do this to you to protect myself okay so and we do that all the time and that is the reactivity or the shutting down and disconnecting the go ghosting people and never calling back

you know like those are those are setting a boundary from a protector to protect our pain which is very different than what I did with my mom I'm like I love you I I was I was setting a boundary from self I love you I care about you I want you in my life I'll do anything I can to help you yeah if you can't join me for whatever reason that's up to you and I will deal with the consequences of that but I love myself and I'm choosing me over disconnection to make you feel

better wow okay so that's coming from a different place so we set boundaries from a place of love yes you know I I organized a funeral for my dad because I wanted to I wanted to give him a good send off you know and it was from a place of love you know you could say no from a place of love like this doesn't work that's what I'm doing with my kids now it's like that doesn't work for me I'm sorry I don't want to be yelled at you're angry I'm open to hearing about it

but not this way yes when you're ready let's talk can calm down or we can talk yeah yeah yeah so it's from where it comes from so the boundary is different when it's reactive yes or shut down CU that's protective versus when it's coming from a place of Love wow you know you are the expert on trauma um one of the experts on trauma in in the world today it seems like a lot of people are oversharing their traumas online right before they've actually gone through the four-step process and done the three things of transforming

their traumas that's right and it seems like this trauma dumping is happening without a processing privately yeah or with a a a professional first yeah what are your thoughts on people sharing their traumas online yes and should people share things that they've struggled with online is the right time to do it or people oversharing too much yeah it's a it's a great that's the downside with everybody joining up to try to help when we all come together to try and help not everybody's doing it from the healthiest place right so that's one of the downsides

what I say to people and even when if you want to confront somebody who's harmed you confront a perpetrator in any form heal first confront second H heal first confront second cuz typically what you do once you heal you see the wound in your perpetrator that's what typically ends up yeah and you can I mean it's hard it's it's hard to hear this if you haven't healed you can see the compa you can have complexity compassion for the complexity yes of what that person was doing it doesn't mean you agree or say they're okay no

you don't agree or condone but you can see it like my dad is like he was a wounded person he had limitations I could see that now and the little boy inside of me was the recipient of someone else's actions and is not okay and it hurt me and it huge conditioned me for many years of my life and and ruined parts of me and there was anger and true wounds that he put me through this conversion therapy and these things and caused all this pain in my life but if you can step back and

look at it you can still see at least I know where it's coming from and it's I don't I don't take responsibility for it anymore I don't hate myself about it anymore I don't even hate him about it it was what was happen it's I wouldn't be sitting across from you right now if it wasn't for him no I wouldn't be you wouldn't care about this work I wouldn't be a trauma expert yeah I wouldn't be helping people so I have gratitude now I mean this is a long time this is a long time so

I'm not I don't want people to feel bad about themselves if we're all at different stages I've been I'm 60 years old I've been doing this since you're 60 60 years old how is that possible you look like 40 man that's because of healing this is what I tell people they're like get a skincare line Frank I'm like no it's not skin care it's releasing trauma wow it's releasing trauma I think I look younger the more I release I think we all do honestly do you feel lighter I'm not caring stuff I'm not caring it

anymore right so I yes it's possible for people yes you can do it I don't want people to feel bad the trauma dumping is sharing before you've healed and you're going to and people and people get a lot of attention they get a lot of like validation and then they keep doing it from a wounded place yes it's it it increases the US them mentality that's the thing that I'm like ah you're all good and we're all bad like you know but this early premature trauma dumping doesn't really help now I'm trying to create I'm

trying as I move out of therapy therapy is great don't get me wrong it's not enough to heal the world there's limited resources we don't have enough therapists so I'm trying to bring this to the general public so that people there are safe ways for people to do that we're creating this part of what the trauma Institute is trying to create ways if you can't afford it you don't have those resources that there might be ways to do that I'm really working hard on that but trauma dumping is not help in even though a part

gets heard it does it's not done safely yes it's not done with permission if you trauma dump all parts of you don't agree to share oh the internal parts of you the internal parts I say is everybody okay with SH is everyone in alignment with this is everyone in alignment just the wounded part of you right then you share from a different place when everyone's aligned so I'm I I'm mixed about it like yeah there's too many people showing up doing it I don't want to say the wrong way doing it in an uninformed way

that ret traumatizing when it's ret traumatizing when you relive something we know this from Neuroscience reliving reinforces the trauma neural network being with it is the space to allow the transformation stuff to occur what's the difference between reliving it and being with it yes what is that I'll I'll give you an example like I'm so sick and tired of you you do this to me over and over again that's in it okay that's in it right you could feel can't you feel the energy yeah and it's like it's like all of me feels this about

all of you and I'm all I'm going to you always do this yes I'm going to get all I'm not going to get thanks for sharing Frank I'm going to get a defensive response back yes you that's your natural instinct if I say a part of me was so upset by what you did the other day that that really hurt me when you said that then you're like oh so he doesn't hate me not you Ru my life bad I didn't ruin his life you're like oh that thing I did was harmful to him I

get that you're much more likely to say I get it I'm sorry about that here's what was going on for me right so that's the being in it it's so like encompassing and it and it's not effective it never works nobody's like thanks for sharing wow when we're in it wow and so it's the being with is it possible for someone to heal without a therapist a priest a psychiatrist who's actually helping them release their trauma that's what I'm working on you know I'm not 100% certain I want to do this there's other people working

on it as we mentioned I want to I want to kind of create a safe way to do this because there's peer support things that are helpful to a point like one of the things I want to teach people is like when can you do it on your own and when do you need to get extra support right when you're able to be with it you can do more when you start slipping in it you've lost perspective so that's one of the guidelines I did a course recently with a writer uh who wrote writes Memoirs

also Lissa Ranken um I know Lissa yeah you know Lisa right to heal we just right to heal we just did a course and we're trying to teach people and I did like we set up this structure and guidelines of how to write from the part how to write a love letter to the part interesting so we're working on different ways I I feel like there we're working on how do I heal because I know there's a lot of people out there who don't have these resources and there's a lot of trauma so I'm really

working on and I'm you know I want us to collectively work on it right to bring this to people so that if you can't you know when you need to get help or how to get help and I don't know you you you talked about these moments in your life like with my husband I've had so many corrective experiences with him like that was that's been a very healing relationship you know so we can heal in relationship under the right circumstances that are not therapeutic yeah too right you know what I mean sometimes friendships are

like I have friends that are just like can be so vulnerable too and it feels so good I don't have a ton of them but we can heal in relationship it's powerful yeah I want to ask you about drugs with mental health or trauma I was gonna say which drugs you talking about there's a lot of them um I I do my best to come from an open mind um when it comes to I guess prescription drug with some dealing with mental health trauma you know depression all these different things but sometimes I feel like

people bypass the work first y to get a relief of I'm overwhelmed I'm stressed I'm mentally struggling I'm depressed I'm suicidal thinking yes give me a drug to feel better 100% what are your thoughts on this because you've prescribed this as a psychiatrist to to patients and clients before do you feel like too many people are quickly jumping to prescription drugs to heal a symptom Y versus turning around and facing himself doing the process you talked about and actually going through the pain which feels like you're going to die sometimes it feels life threatening when

you face the wounds it is horrendous so I understand it is probably the hardest work you'll ever do right but what are the complications of going for prescription depression anti-depressant drugs first before working through the pain emotionally yeah so I'm I'm not an anti-drug person and I'm not a drug first person uhuh right and I I do a lot I used to do a lot of psycho Farm psychopharmacology lectures there's neurobiological I I teach teach about the neurobiology of PTSD and dissociation and when you're in hyperaroused PTSD you have low serotonin you have low Gaba

high corol high cortisol High neopine there's a real bi I mean I can I teach this stuff in my sleep so there's real biological disregulation so when you have PTSD you do can benefit from increasing your serotonin or decreasing your nor epinephrine or dopamine okay so there there also natural ways to do that right there's natural ways to do it and the drugs aren't wrong at all if they're used appropriately I think of medications is therapy enhancers that's the way I think of them when somebody can't be with cuz they're too flooded use the meds

to help lower the intensity so you can be with uhhuh meds don't do the work meds do not do the work we can have a whole another episode on psychedelics at another time because there's a whole world of the psychedelics MDMA camine all those drugs I'm steeped in that world too because people are rushing to those I get so worried about that I get wor and then they're like I'm Healed and then three weeks later they're like I'm going to breakdown again well it doesn't work and I have very good friends who are very thoughtful

trauma therapists who are doing amazing work with psychedelics too so they're enhancers got it and if you have enough knowledge to know when it's like when do you need therapy when can you do the work on your own when would medications benefit you and when are you using them as a replacement like both are true do you know what I mean I there's a lot of people that are like these hippie anti-drug people I'm like that's that's ignoring science and you know I'm I got pgs you took a bill like that's ignoring reality you know

both both extremes are are harmful yeah again again I try to have an open mind about this I can hear your energy though I feel it but and oh good we live we live in the world of ANS here yes and I also yeah worry about external that's right chemicals influencing internal the internal Pharmacy that we naturally have just like you said the wisdom is within us that birth and five we have to tap into it right we've got to shut up I get it it's like how do we know that medication also won't harm

our chemistry in the future if we do too much of it we don't know that and shift of us needing it to then be self-regulated it's that's my worry in a world of ANS it's a big deal with the anti ADD meds for example the ADD meds are very complicated especially from childhood we're developing our brains exactly so it's very complicated you're bringing up something that's important for people to pay attention to and let's be thoughtful about it like I used them at one point in my healing I couldn't do the work I couldn't do

the work sense I couldn't I was so I was depressed I was taken over by it the therapy wasn't helpful because I didn't I I needed and I did it for probably two years maybe is what I did and it helped me then you got off of it I got off of it it helped me do the work it helped me do the work like if you can't do the work it can help you versus use it instead of doing the work yeah yeah it's if if you're willing to do it and say okay I'm

intensely doing the work now yes yeah and it's a both and yeah then it's like okay yeah if I'm unable to do the work and I've tried and tried and done all the many things and it's not working then try it then try but also do the work with it right don't just take the med it's not a replacer it's not a replace it's an enhancer of the work that's that's the way I think about philosophy you know and to be really thoughtful about the long-term effects of these medicines I think it's important um because

there is a culture like let's do everything quickly there's such a culture in that or put a Band-Aid on it or just give it relief yes we're so in like self technology has made us so instantaneous some of the pill stuff folds right into that you know what I mean and like I'd rather do an MDMA session or a mushroom session so I don't have to and feel good at the moment and I'm like gone into La La Land you know so I don't have to do the work so there's a bypass we call that

bypass like a lot of people use meds a lot of people use meditation as Bypass or spirituality as bypass let me get to a higher place and ignore my trauma there's a lot of bypass in spirituality there's a lot of bypassing medication wow they both like I'm a very spiritual person it can really enhance the work but it can also be bypassed so can medicines wow if someone knows that they have blocks they have wounds they have pain they have resentment anger inside of them and they also know that man this might take months or

years to process and actually face and I've got so much at work and my family I've got to show up and like hold the ship together I can't go through this work right now because it's going to be so painful it's going to say so much of my energy my time I'm not going to be able to be there for my husband or my wife or my kids and my work I'm going to be in like breakdown mode yes what would you say to those individuals on what's available on the other side and is it

ever a wrong time to start the work yeah it's a great question and I I face this a lot with a lot of people I have to tell you um it is I can feel it as we're talk like like it is really painful it is difficult to go through this I'm on the other side yes and my life is better than it's ever been I am doing more things than I had I would have never in a million years thought I would be able to live this kind of life so the benefits are enormous

when we are clean and clear and truly ourselves the benefits are endless for all of us in different ways so not everybody wants to has the resources to do the work to get there and I say that's a choice I really say that's a choice most people can't slip through life without getting stopped up by it it's the third divorce it's the third kid that I can't afford that I shouldn't have had it's the job that I keep like failing at or another boss who hates me that I got fired for right so what I

would say to people is is how is your life and is it where you want it to be and if not which pieces do you want to change when this does not have to be done in the grueling all at once kind kind of way you know out here in La as I'm working more with people it's fascinating that a lot of people who are in this industry are terrified to do the work because they afraid they're going to lose their careers over it interesting if I and there's a I met a lot of people

who have significant drama you don't play somebody else for a livelihood without needing to get away from something I'm not saying every actor has trauma I'm not saying that I'm saying I worked with people who are very reluctant because there's fear that they're going to lose what they do have if they do the work I'll lose my family I'll lose this so what I say is take it one step at a time like where are you unhappy what do you want to change and then do the work around that piece do it a little bit

at a time it doesn't have to be like I'm not everybody needs to be in therapy for 33 years like sorry that's I don't recommend that for everybody there's a lot of money and timec consuming I'm grateful but I have a purpose in it right so do what do it in phases and if it gets too hard really stop there's timing I had a piece I when my I had my my oldest son and my youngest son they're four four years and a day apart and my youngest is on the Spectrum and he was a

very challenging kid in with with many many medical problems and I couldn't I wasn't go I was too overwhelmed in my life to do deep peeling work then during that time I couldn't do it then I was I was barely keeping afloat right so it's like you got to balance where you want to be where you are and what kind of resource energy and monetarily do you have when it's kind of a long life and different people do different work at different times you know what I mean and I can say this now at 60

like oh you're only 30 like you've got a you've got a here you're at 30 like you've got a long way to go like it's okay do a piece of work now you know I did a piece of work got into a great relationship with a guy it was like I I didn't repeat anything anymore I was like I'm not in repeat mode I found a good relationship and then it was these years later when we had kids that stuff came up at a different layer so I went back do you know what I mean

so it doesn't have to be all at once interesting and what would you say is the number one emotion that blocks us from peace Harmony and ultimate happiness shame I think it's shame like shame is so toxic and shame is usually the result of relational trauma really when does shame occur I write about this it it can happen BR Brown talks about shame in a way that I I love also I think from a I write about shame from a trauma a relational trauma perspective and there's two shame cycles that I talk about within trauma

within relational trauma one is when you're verbally or physically abused you worthless piece of okay you internalize I'm a worthless piece of so you have a part that holds shame I shame is not I did something wrong shame is I am bad so when we are when there's an external shamer we develop an internal shamer and an internal shamed wow okay you worthless piece of if you behave we won't get in trouble so when you're critically abused verbally abused or externally shamed you have a same wound I'm bad I'm no good is that sexual abuse

too sexual abuse can yeah it's it's yeah sex I would say sexual abuse too it's interesting it's um I could just feel that so powerfully like it adds another dimension to it like I am it's like the V worthless it adds another layer of Shame right you can relate if from your own history right so it's it's yeah it's I would say it's a another depth another layer another layer of I am horrible I am bad that's one shame cycle that can be healed okay and that's the wound is I am no good it takes

a long time to heal shame wounds they can be healed but it you it takes a long time it's such a physiologically powerful emotion and it's so reflexive and reactive right instantaneous it's probably why you had this kind of reaction when your kids would tou you and jump on your back you're like ah it's just it's so reflexive the other shame wound comes from neglect and that could be te neglect little I am so bad that my parent doesn't even care I'm so bad that I'm not worth food or clothing or hug or love or

affection or love or affection so when it's neglect it's it's it's and I call the this one the hyper arouse you yelling screaming this one's the hypo aroused numb detached disconnected and then you develop an internal shamer and or disconnector like you're those are the people are disconnected from themselves because they've learned that disconnection is a way of being in the world wow see so those are two such shame cycles that I work with in relational trauma all different versions over and over again how is someone who is disconnected or analytical and not in their

body and connected to their heart yes based on conditionings of neglect and shame yep how does someone like that learn to he process and heal so they are fully in their body and in their heart yeah and connected to themselves and the world that was so when you the I I had the smart intellectual protector mhm in a big way I'm going to know it all you don't get to Harvard like I was like yeah like and I was who I was your identity who I was I am smart and it was you know intellect

fills a void intellect fills the void the shame void it's like I like and those parts if I if I feel worthless then this will help me not feel worthless I'm going to I'm going to fill the space I'm going to figure it out I'm going to understand I'm going to solve the problem right and those parts have a very hard time stepping back if I step back there's nothing right if I don't lead with my intellect or showcase my abilities or skills I'm nothing wow I'm nothing and so right like wow and it's so

powerful so it takes those are those are take a long time to work with those and I remember the moment that that I wasn't like fully identified with that part like it was it was a like it was like one of these like identity crises it's like who Am I who am I if I'm not smart you know like then it was where I was like oh you're funny and oh you like this like I started seeing the other dimensions but for the longest time it was like I I WR about this in the book

um I used to run home with A's on my report card hoping my d will love me like this is she's going to love me now the gold stars on the report card you know perfect GPA to of Cl driven for achievement to get love did he ever acknowledge you or love you when you had A's it didn't he acknowledge we got a dollar for every a back in the day okay we got a dollar for every a okay so but it didn't get me what I wanted it didn't get me love really it didn't

get me love you know so you got rewarded in monetary ways but not not em affectionate exactly so it took it take those those people that are all left brained how does someone learn how to fully love and love themselves and give themselves affection when their parents didn't have the tools or wasn't in their DNA to touch hug kiss and love on their kids and I said when I went to Japan last year I saw this and I heard this from many people that said just the culture I'm sure some people didn't do this but

the culture in right just wasn't affectionate with kids and it's very academic driven achievement driven you know type of culture again not all parents were this way but it seemed like this was the the culture and they grew up not able to express their emotions as fully based because of that that's right so if someone was raised without affection from their parents love attention how they how do they learn to give give thems affection and be comfortable receiving from others when they never received from their parents yes it's a great question because it it is

POS I'm going to say it's possible I do believe it's possible and it's undoing a lot of family Legacy cultural trauma transgenerational trauma okay so there's a lot that comes up in transgenerational trauma around that Dr marel bouquet talks about yes generational trouble that's exactly right it's huge it's have we all grow up in some form of a family that we've internalized the messages through ethnicity through the family culture through you know so you we internalize that stuff that's also not our energy it's energy we absorb because of the family we're in gosh okay so

it once you differentiate who you are from what you were subjected to who you are from what you were subjected to or what family you were born into what's yours what isn't yours right and this idea we all have love within us yes we all have it so even if you're programmed be not to we all have it we all have it man your book to be loved A Story of Truth trauma and transformation by Frank Anderson is a powerful story about just kind of the life you've been through and the different levels of traumas

and challenges and therapies and experiences uh is a beautiful story I want people to get this because I think a lot of people can relate in some way to their own life 100% uh about what they've experienced what they've gone through and how to find Hope and healing no matter how much trauma you've experienced right what type of disconnection you've had how you've been abused abandoned forgotten um dismissed that's right in your uniqueness in the world um and how to love and acknowledge people even if they've treated you poorly as parents and see them from

a compassionate place without conding their behaviors and actions toward you as a child one of the the exercises I have experienced that is probably one of the most healing for me as I'd done the had been doing the work for a while was revisiting I'm getting chill's just thinking about it was Revis visiting the 5-year-old in front of me yes and having a beautiful conversation and experience with my 5-year-old self that's right and bringing him into my heart and reconnecting with yeah that wounded boy that's right and as an adult yeah self being able to

hug yeah and give him what he needed and also thank him yeah for going through the challenge and the struggle for facing these confusing times as a child without the tools and saying thank you for getting us here right I got your back now and I can take us to the next place 100% thank you for enduring this confusing painful life yeah you shouldn't have had to experience this that's right I acknowledge you for not hurting yourself more than you did not beating yourself up more than you did and for doing your best yes that's

right I love you I accept you and I appreciate you and and I and I got you 100% one of the most beautiful right exercises that I have done for my all the parts of myself that's right and that's the transformation thing I was talking about it's a beautiful example of that it is yeah and I think you know your book gives us kind of this journey of how we can do this with ourselves and different parts of ourselves and just understands the complexity of The Human Experience right because it's in my opinion the most

beautiful experience but it can also be the most challenging confusing experience at the same time because we live in a world of ANS yep love that uh people can get the book right now to be loved um also your website Frank Anderson md.com you're also on social media more now Frank Anderson MD uh just Google that they'll find all of your social media links um you're also working on the trauma Institute which people can find as well on your website and learn more about how they can use the tools and training and courses to support

them on their own Journey if they can't afford therapy at this moment or they're not ready for it or they want to do it on their own to get started and Dabble in it so I highly recommend that uh you are you know you've been in this work with the leaders of Psy pad psychology therapy trauma uh for decades in this work and we studied with worked with and know all of the top experts you're constantly learning so this book will be a great resource for anyone looking to reclaim themselves and to feel fully loved

and healed in their Journey so I'm so grateful that you're here and I acknowledge you for the the pain you've endured and the suffering that you have experienced throughout different seasons of your life and the gift you give all of us by saying this pain is I'm going to create meaning from this pain and Trauma and suffering and I'm going to find out why this is happening so I can serve people yeah so they don't have to experience this pain and suffering as well so I want to acknowledge you than you for the gift of

continuing your journey of growth your gift of finding ways to bring academic academic research and science to the masses so that we can understand the complicated yes and uh just acknowledge you Frank for your for your big heart and tapping into your heart and getting out of your head yeah it's your beautiful human being thank you uh two final questions I have for you this is called the three truths question so it's a hypothetical scenario imagine you get to live as long as you want in this world but it's your last day it could be

as old you could be as old as you want you know science has gotten you to 100 plus something years old you still have the same skin you know at 100 so you look 30 but for whatever reason it's the last day for you hypothetically you get to create everything you want witness experience Everything You Want From This Moment until then but for whatever reason in this hypothetical question all of your content is gone from the world we don't have access to your book this conversation course anything you create for whatever reason it's gone but

on the last day you get to leave behind three lessons from all of your life's experience and this is all we would have to remember and be reminded of and I call it the three truths question what were those three truths that you think everyone needs to know that you would share so we all we all have love in us even our enemies we all have trauma that can be healed and really nothing else is more important than love and connection like it's interesting when you were saying that I was part part of me instantly

flashed to my kids and then my husband and then my siblings right it's like the people that are important to me right and then you're like all your books and information are gone the other piece was like but wait a minute like I want to get this message of trauma blocks love love heals trauma to the world you know and so I'm I would say those the three things encapsulate that the importance of love and connection the fact that we all have it in us and it can be healed final question Frank what's your definition

of greatness love and kindness honestly love and kindness there you go Frank thanks so much for being here appreciate you thank you so much diabetes for for example um cardiac conditions a lot of those can be mapped back to stressors in life and there's a lot of studies that have been done around even autoimmune conditions being very deeply connected to stressors and to trauma and more more recently there's some studies that