The 19-year-old Making Millions with His Ai Mobile App

how much money do you make in the last 30 days we made $250,000 so about quar a million do how old are you 19 what do you do so we have a porn addiction app that helps hundreds of thousands of men around the world quit pornography and it's like a mobile app like in the app store that's right okay how long did it take to actually get to this point I mean we've been in the business for about four months five months now so you started at four months ago five months ago you're making $250,000

per month right is that recurring well this month is our biggest month okay but is it recurring is it a subscription what's the price so it is a subscription yeah we got like $1299 a month plan we got a $45 a year so we have a lot of cash coming through the door because a lot of people buy a yearly plan so we can just reinvest that into more marketing that's why you know okay it's easy to scale super interesting last question I'm going to ask you then I'm going to get to everybody why did

you decide to build this app out of all the apps in the world you could build I think it is is just such an issue in today's world a lot of only fans and porn is normalized no one knows about the side effects so building an app for that market was just a no-brainer unended was it a passion thing was money a part of it both I think initially looking at the consumer app space and what was working a lot of men don't talk about this you don't go to your boy and be like I'm

addicted to porn man how do you help me and so for us we broke down the barriers and it was incognito on the app and so when we launched it people knew they had an issue and the app was there to help them and so that's where also we have one of the largest conversion rates in the industry first off how did you guys start to meet each other so there's the whole team here right tell your name and what you do I'm Chris I'm the lead designer how old are you I'm 17 cool I'm

Alex I do product in Dev and I'm 19 I'm Connor I'm 22 and I handle all growth distribution Marketing sales Etc okay great and so how did you guys come together in the first place this is a fun story yeah do you want me to tell it I'll start then we we'll okay first off he's my brother oh of cool okay easy um so I was working on an app um that held you accountable by losing money if you didn't work out it since failed but when doing that I use YC's co-founder matching tool which

is a tool anyone can have access to I saw Alex on there and then I bered him on probably eight different platforms including two apps he's built um we hopped on a call he's like I don't like this idea at all but we connected over our energy of just building stuff and then coincidentally a year later I went to San Francisco to give peer pressure last hurah and Alex was also there um we met up picked him up in the rental car got some Chipotle um told him I had an idea to help men quit

porn and his response was I built that last week oh and so so yeah so he naturally came to me and was like okay I'll run marketing for you we have the product built let's work together let's try figure something out and here we are so you already had it built yeah you had the idea I had the idea and I built I built a hypothesis built off of basically what Blake and Zach did did with Cal umax dove into that built my own hypothesis on top of it and was like I know how to

Market this and then um come what late August early September um they were broke at the time and I took the only three grand I had of my bank account and we turned into 37k our first month that's wild so you were with the hypothesis that like you need a viral intrinsically viral product basically and you found a way to basically make this concept go viral I think it was more you have a very high pain point that everyone's not willing to talk about but they want solved and distribution is key and so we leverage

influencers who aren't pushing anti-porn products but they are pushing Christianity um Fitness things of that nature that are also synergetic with such a big Market too why did you build this first then why did you have the idea to build it uh so me and Chris are actually in the self-improvement space and like an aspect of self-improvement is noof fap which is like s retention people say you know it gives you so much energy creativity and ideas and that's you know and and because like porn is and sexual drive is so inherit it's such a

hard addiction to quit and we're like okay look there's no apps on this let me build an app and then yeah we want to launch it yeah were there competitors was there any other app on the market there like there's Boomers there was one competitor and it was called brain body I believe and the thing is about brain bodyy they've been in the market for about 14 years and they have zero marketing efforts they've done uh they've barely innovated in the last like decade so we thought it was a good Gap to enter the market

and um yeah another thing to note Covenant eyes is another one and they target a lot of older men gotcha um so their demographic is 35 and up there wasn't anything for Gen Z there's nothing gen Z right we consume the most only fan stuff and like because of the rise of only fans because you do but my point is they were targeting a niche that we didn't relate to so we built something better interesting okay so then you had the idea you saw the opportunity what is the actual product like what is the experience

like like how are you how first how did you figure out how to solve this problem for other people is there AI involved could you just explain the product yeah so fundamentally um it was mainly just a timer at first I don't know if you ever heard of the concept no fap streak like how long you've been okay porn free for it was just a timer at first and then we leveled it up to be a community so everyone that downloads the app can chat with each other and help each other out and that's that's

really helped people we also have a bunch of breathing exercises we have a panic button every time you're really really tempted to Jer off like vibrate your phone is like wake up you have goals like stay How does it go off how do you know uh you just press it whenever you attempted you open button on your phone you just press it it recalls your entire mission on why you want to quit yeah so it's quite useful so what's the actual like flow like to do this like if you were like okay I download this

app I really want to try to quit what are you like what are you inputting on your phone like you're so you said you set your goals yeah so initially in the on boarding you go through a um like a quiz to see if you actually need the app so you go through about a 12 page quiz and um yeah it basically calculates if you need it and then it creates like a personalized plan for you to if you need a quit or not what are the questions um they yeah oddly specific like has your

exposure got more and more like Twisted in a way it's like how long have you been addicted when way you're exposed to this blah blah blah blah blah we calculate their responses and show them if they need our up or not who would you not say need to the app I think I think every everyone that consumes porn should have our app because it's it's so destructive MH it's so normalized as yeah yeah yeah so normalized so pretty much everyone but unless you're clean then of course you don't I think part of the trick is

if you're downloading the app you need the app okay and the quiz is a reinforcer that you that's I'm asking is it more of like a psychological obviously this is a good thing that people are doing so there's no like Foul Play here but like is it more like a psychological like mental like getting them to even ask themselves that question to answer you had like this we mentioned earlier like this mix panel onboarding stat like literally 12 different steps it's like 99 99 98% people like no one's falling off like everyone's going through this

and so it's kind of designed to be part of the experience of quitting in and of itself yeah it's it's super high intent and because like because it's such a taboo subject no one talks about it so when there is an there is an outlet for them to change and be a better person they're going to stick with the onboarding so it's almost like a journal you know in a way anything can change though if you're overweight you have to accept the fat fact that you're fat and you need to hit the gym so for

this I think it's reinforcing accept the fact that you are addicted and you need change and here's the process to get change and help okay interesting so walk me through this entire onboarding flow I really want to understand so you download the app yeah you open it then you were asked a series of 12 questions basically yeah MH and then once they answer those 12 questions what happened so so pretty much hello so if you watch my podcast or other online podcast you're probably in the world of online business and you probably watch a lot

of content on it as you probably know making content is one of the most powerful ways to get customers for your business and it's pretty much all I've done for the last eight years I've been able to grow my YouTube channel from zero to half a million subscribers in a very quick time and I've really seen success in a lot of different formats a lot of different niches because I truly understand the psychology of content so I've decided to make a YouTube program called the YouTube Playbook where I teach all of it very quickly in

less than two hours if you wanted to get that it's the first link in the description it's only $97 I promise it's not some fluffy basic course it's exactly what I've learned by doing this day in and day out it's filled with all actionable insights with a psychology first approach so if you want to check that out first link in the description back to the episode and then once they answer those 12 questions what happened so so so pretty much it's download the app then you get for a questionnaire after you finish the questionnaire you

go to a symptom view so where you can click which symptoms you have so like low Drive no longer interested in girls Etc then it goes to another page where it shows like testimonials from people that have used our app then it goes to another slide where it says all the side effects of consuming porn and then all the benefits of quitting and how how our app will help you do that and then we asked them for a for a review so we Rank kir and ASO so App Store optimization then we hit with a

pay wall and it says it's time to invest in yourself and then using their name it's like hey Alex it's time to invest in yourself hit with the payall now it's like okay look for just 20 bucks or $12.99 a month I can quit porn forever so it's such a cheap you know exchange for such a great difference in your life are you ever even like explaining what the product is or what how you actually like the steps to quitting like in after the explain the value yeah so the outcome you're giving you're G we're

giving them the value and the onboarding of here's what users are saying here's how it helps here's what it does and then when they get in here the features gotcha that's so smart so it's basically like all these are a lot of different psychology principles so it's really smart the you're doing this one they're put getting some little like skin in the game answering all these questions actually getting themselves to ask the question then what do they see next after the questionnaire uh they see the symptoms you so they can select which symptoms they so

then they have to like diagnose themselves like these are the ones I actually like I have a problem these are the problems I'm experiencing and so in their mind do they think they're getting a custom plan built for them essentially okay so then once they have that answered you show them social proof so you show them reviews of basically other people saying this worked for me this was super helpful and that makes them be like okay this is like a real product and it's worked for other people it'll work for me and every every subsequent

page every tap they do like drives a higher intent for them to actually P of course cuz if you just throw them a payall in the beginning they can easily uninstall the app not like they no one wants to spend money on things they don't have to but if they design their plan for them of course they're going to pay we're also making the app much more customized well as more updates come is this AI enabled yeah okay so once they see the social proof of the reviews you say you ask them for a review

yeah we do that why would they give you a review before they've even used the product good point most people don't but there are a select few people that just click five stars and go to the next page super fast and that adds up over time do they have to actually write words or is it just five stars you can just click five stars gotcha but they but you showed them other people's reviews first so they saw reviews and they then you asked for a review then what happened and then then we hit him with

a pay wall we give him like a special the payall yeah right we give him a special card saying look we've built your plan this is your card congrats on coming this far now it's time to invest in yourself so it feels like you've made something for them and then you encourage them to invest in themselves very important language then you actually ask them to pay and you've not a single time explained what the actual app looks like or what's inside or how it works uh through distribution methods and App Store screenshots they'll see what

the app looks like or organic content influencers posting organic ugc ads Etc anything we're pushing shows the app a lot of the times so the marketing strategy is more product education demos they see it work they get recommended it by someone that they follow basically and then if they're on Strictly onboarding or App Store organic right they look up how do I quit pourn on app store and we pop up they won't see features gotcha that makes sense you always want to sell the outcome the instate not the actual features themselves it's not important yes

exactly okay so then then that's so much that's so important because they have intent they have the emotional connection they made the decision themselves and they've seen that it's worked for other people four like key psychology principles then they pay what happens then we take they we take away the hard pay wall they get jumped into the app they can start their streak from day one so look the time is C uh ticking up saying look you've been sober for one day two days 3 days four days they get like a little special badge every

time they reach a new Milestone they're uh we have a to-do list so they can Journal why they want to quit make a post in the community and start getting you know building some habits on the app so it's a community pretty much yeah in and of itself so they can all talk to each other ex and that's where I was talking about the walls being broken down of actually communicating with your issues and getting help from each other are you Anonymous or is your real name or is your choice first your choice on names

and your choice on age but they can just list whatever like obviously you're not like KY seeing them obviously okay so whatever name they could do the real name they could probably or some people are Anonymous I would assume okay so that's very interesting you said they get a list that the first thing a to-do list yeah they get a to-do list so we we just want to build retention so we get them using different features on the app so they understand is is it a to-do list that feels like an onboarding like you have

to do these to get set up or is it like these are the set tasks you need to do to achieve go here's what we recommend okay then you said this word streak explain the concept of a streak so it's just how long you've been sober for and people feel motivated by that like the the higher your streak the less likely you're going to relapse so what are the it's streak so how long how many days in a row I assume how many days in a row do you have to like log into the app

and then like hit like second day or you write it or does it for you and then if you relapse you just click relapse and it resets C gotcha okay yeah how do you encourage people to be honest with themselves and actually hit relapse when they've relapsed or you educate them like that's kind of on them like we can't encourage everyone to quit porn they got have that mental like want to change if they can't do it then the product's not for them okay so Step One is a streak pay attention to your streak try

to keep this as long as you can so you can stay on top of how good you're doing we say 90 days is like the Breakthrough point where you so you set you set a goal or like a goal post like you we're trying to go for 90 days let's see if you can do it every day you log into this app adds to your streak they have to log in for the streak or just counts no it just counts okay great then what's the next one um well we got the community okay we have

also like we have a recovery page so it's like the longer your streak is there's like a progress bar so like you got better sleep you you got you're thinking healthier thoughts you got more energy and those tick up as your streak increases all all these things increase um their chances of becoming is that actually track or is that just like a high level like if you go a week without this you're going to have more energy it's high level for now we do want to make it study based in the future but we don't

really need to right now no it makes sense conceptually okay so that you're trying to you're trying to grow your streak you have a community to talk to other people are you encouraging them to like introduce themselves is there like like how are they actually like engaging in the community a lot of people just post what they want so they're like oh I'm really tempted someone help me and there's loads of people in the comments saying look don't do it like you're better than this remember all these lessons you learned last time Etc so it's

like if you feel an urge you go in there talk that's also why the panic button after you the panic button panic button will push you to the community or journaling as well okay so when they join is like presented with like here's like how to like here's the system to quitting like is there like a one pager that they're reading and then introducing these tools or is it just like a page of tools a page tools page tools okay and they just like will click in like okay what's this tool what's this tool gotcha

exactly how many tools are there there's at least 20 oh wow yeah okay so panic button we've also got a like a plant so like if you you can click plant your seed and then as your streak increases it grows from a like a little sapling into a tree ah interesting and then people feel more like visual progress right exactly they don't want to cut the tree down they want to keep it growing so they keep watering it so kindy to build all these little like emotional connections to this thing and it's compounding they'll do

something if they do this so there's like external accountability accountability yeah like external accountability basically great thank you one of our more viral features is like melus which is like a AI is what is is a AI therapist so goes with sorry goes with the back end but you speak to melas and it gives you advice and if there's no one in the community that can help you you can speak to melus and it gives you like one to one advice so it's like your AI agent that people can just talk to basically pretty much

yeah 24/7 therapist you can speak to interesting and knows everything about noof fap knows all the symptoms how did you figure out what tools to include I think a lot of it was studying the competition they gave us a lot of inspiration head St we don't really need to reinvent the world I don't think anyone does MH um and then just things that we thought would be useful that's kind of like we just go with our gut instincts and we also listen to the community we have like a little program where if you give us

a good feature that we eventually Implement we'll give you like 100 bucks and that's like interesting it's helping the flywheel grow pretty much yeah it's like a streamlined information with like a dopamine fueled experience SL you're building something so you don't want to lose it and then accountability from the group and a person I would say we also whenever someone deletes the app or cancels we ask them what they would want changed and basically we've set up a system where we just have this feed of feedback that we can actually Implement is it viewed positively

like do you have like some sort of like like congratulations you just canceled like is that like a is that a thing where it's like like you quit like you've done it like we don't yeah okay but like that's like we don't know if they're deleting because they quit or if they're deleting because they don't like the yeah yeah I think I think noof fap in that whole journey is like a lifelong game though for sure because it takes one slip up to fall back in the cycle the panic button is interesting so you're just

like trying to like habituate yourself that if you feel this vibration like snaps you out of this like trans like wake up don't let your mind a meditative state in a sense of like your boy being like what are you doing man come on let's stop like if you set an alarm every day at 1 p.m. and you heard that sound you would immediately hear that sound like start behaving a certain way even without hearing it a month later that's so smart are there any other like Cool Tools like that that you want to that

like would be interesting to hear about we have like a full page of resources so a bunch of Articles like break down everything about what porn addiction is like all the psychology behind it and as you understand and read through it um you kind kind of just disassociate from that feeling and are able to overcome it become aware that it's actually even a thing like I feel like most people don't even realize they're addicted or that being addicted to this thing is even possible they think they're just like watching content that's fun to watch or

something exactly then when we when we show them how it's affecting them they start to realize and break free from that do you show pictures of brain activity they're like really like heat mapped big and then some really small we actually have done some marketing progam we done that in Twitter yeah for marketing like five reasons how porn affects your brain and then at the bottom it's like download quitter if you want it's like this person's without porn this person's with porn who are you red that seems like a no-brainer interesting bro okay so then

is there any sort of like there's two more questions I have on the product are there any sort of like viral growth Mechanics for the app to grow natively like product like growth like sharing this to a friend I feel like that's not a very yeah big Advantage you might have we don't have that Advantage at all we had it in the beginning where it's like refer friend you get five bucks and we had a few downloads from that but I just don't think you're going to share this product with your friends like look here's

here's how you quit point the reason why it works is Wells because people aren't sharing it but they need to get it solved mhm yeah it's like a very personal experience so there really is no organic growth as far as like just people sharing the app natively or exactly I mean if you if you type any keywords on how to quit on the App Store we will come up so I guess that's our only organic P yeah I think we're number one on quick p on the that makes sense I I totally get that okay

cool and then is there any sort of like cancellation like down sell or like stop don't cancel like why are you doing this to yourself I like it's like a congratulation or like a guilt or is it like we we collect feedback on why they want to leave us and that's it just like fill in this answer and then hit cancel exact fair enough that's nice I always hate when people make me do stuff cancel but there is something to do there probably true like do you not put any language like you why are you

doing this my my my my my focus the last few days has been like do lingo do lingo guilt tripping messages remember those notifications where it's like you let you little wus down yeah exactly it's like a tamagachi exactly I was thinking so pretty much like 15% of people that download app convert so 85% of people that download Don't convert so imagine we send streamline emails following up saying look you're letting yourself down this this mascot's really sad that you're not not buying a subscription blah blah blah and eventually the bottom line will get cleaned

up yeah you you want to you'd want to ask why they got why are they're quitting and just two answers I'm addiction free or like whatever I'm I'm going to try this again later yeah something like that and then you get different yeah I'll be back would be a good one another thing on the flip side of this um we tend to get the question of why we're not premium as well cuz we're hard pay wall and I think it's important to note the fact that we did try that but the activity on the app

dropped significantly no one used the app when it was free everyone used it when it was a hard pay wall and so it goes into that whole onboarding scene and scenario of intent to buy and I think half the battle is when purchase they're all right I'm doing this to quit and then that's why they quit yeah there's undeniable data that if you pay for something you value it more and so I don't think that would make sense at all it's like if it's if I can just access it anytime it's like whatever the amount

of questions we get why isn't it free why isn't it free why isn't it free why don't you do freemium it's like the commitment that you feel when you pay like you feel that loss of the money leaving your account so you feel committed why would you let yourself and your money down yeah yeah and actually it's funny because we have a hard pay wall and people are saying more commit to thems they're going to rate our app higher because it's finally working but actually it was just their ment mentality it's an undeniable Psy like

there's so many studies that prove that psychology too so that's the correct answer correct way to do it I think it's so weird that people are like that on social media okay so the product makes sense to me she's all these different sets of tools different habits different like emotional building accountability with the community seeing this tree grow you don't want to lose that it's like these little like subjective things that people just need to compound and do every single day to be in that mindset and to snap themselves out of it when they feel

tempted that makes a lot of sense and it seems like it's a booming Market to come into huge Market almost every person probably needs this on the in our generation for sure and so Tam's only growing big problem human need it's A+ product choice I feel like right there from a business perspective also from a morality perspective it's a good thing for the world yeah so round of applause for that thank you what makes like what is go a little give me like five minute rant on on boarding flows okay like how you think about

it so I my belief is right you can have the best app in the world the best branding in the world but if you don't have a good onboarding flow then you're just wasting your money it's not as easy as just throwing cash at an influencer and then making a video and you to to be successful if you haven't prepped the user before you ask them to pay it's not going to work so there there's a fine line between having fatiguing onboarding flows to the point where they just leave and give up and also having

a high enough intent where they stay and like okay I'm going to pay I've come this far I'm going to pay it's the same analogy with gamblers they're not chasing a loss necessarily they're chasing something back for all the time they spent in the casino it's the same way right so like what I usually say to people is look at our oning and just revamp it towards your Niche because we've perfected it I mean you've seen my mix panel that you can't really get much better than that it's only 99s across the bo yeah literally

so yeah there's a fine line if we had no onboarding I doubt we would have we would have this high of a conversion rate in our pay we wouldn't I don't even I think it be like the answer would be no like I think yeah sure we got distribution I'm bring us to the platform but how are they going to they're not going to pay if they don't know what they're doing I think it's the single most important thing in consumer apps and I think a bigger thing too is thinking about like landing pages right

vsls when people even in the course industry right they the vssl on the landing page they throw you through this thing it's basically the same thing for just applying the same Concepts it's all psychology right grant card own does the same thing all all these people that have you go through these landing pages of quizzes and this and that they're basically prepping you to be like all right I need this product you to realize I need it you're telling them why you need it mhm you're instilling ideas in the brain get like an internal commitment

and exactly act on it this this is a fun for if we removed our onboarding and also removed like our hard pay wall we wouldn't have had 99% of the revenue we have today but because of those two things a hard payall and a long onboarding that's the reason we so if it was just straight to a premium product put your email make your account and then just try the product out and then maybe you can pay for after 14 days we would maybe have 10K on Revenue ah so it's literally the art is in

the onboard I recommend everyone to go through their onboarding right now and just do it while I'm talking but it's going through those the onboarding asking those questions showing the social proof diagnosing yourself showing the actual reviews asking for a review then saying make a commitment for yourself so framing the money as like an investment in yourself those it's all about the language that's being used in there but yeah again like the honestly if if you're getting it to Consumer apps and you you're hitting people with a hard payall if your onboarding isn't optimized you're

not going to make much money the hard pay basically is a longer version of the question is why do you want this product why are you here we're on a sales call why are you here I'm no longer selling you I'm asking you like why are you here and I'm trying to get them to answer and they're going to tell you for your themselves why they need your product and then the sell is easy it's like a sales call script in general you ask questions that's why I'm saying all this stuff is from the same

principles of sales and onb like we call it onboarding in mobile app space but it's called funnels and landing pages yeah so interesting are there like principles like are there like uh I guess the best word is principles for onboarding that you're like trying to check the box like okay now we need the social proof now we need the like what are they that asking for a review early that's one of them social proof explaining what the app does and explaining the the problem solving yeah the outcome that's the most important part very simple and

just keeping it long because you you want to filter out all those people that aren't serious and those that are serious will stick to the end and eventually pay if you have it too short as I said like that's you're going to fail interesting did you have it like did you just know onboarding was good right the first time you did it or has this been an iterative process that you sent more traffic like how did you get to this point where it's like 99% across the board I think in the early days we just

studied the top apps that were making the most money and what we did is we screenshot every little bit of experience put it all in a figma line it all up and be like okay look all these apps are doing this this this they're making 5 million 6 million what if we ripped that strategy and just applied it to our Niche and that's exactly what we did and we just realized it converted very well so just did the research then but still thought creatively about how it applied uniquely to your product that's a good principle

interesting it works it works I'm a marketer I love talking about marketing I'm very curious how you guys have got this in the world four months to quarter million dollars in Revenue it's pretty nuts 17 19 and 22 even crazier so quar million this month by the way yeah yeah quar million this month in a single month we also did uh we went a video went viral we did 40K in a day and across like a 65h hour period we did 100K in sales can I see that video yeah we'll here I would love to

see it can I show it on screen okay yeah I got 9.9 million views um funny story I was sleeping and they're 5 hours ahead and I get woken up at 6:00 a.m. and Alex was like I don't give a [ __ ] that you're tired like wake up check check your telegram like how many followers does he have uh like 2 million how much did he charge he got 1. how much is the retainer can I ask um we're paying we're paying $3 per thousand views and he's giving us a million views a month

guaranteed but we pay bonuses on top of that so do you do a flat retainer at all like like $500 a month plus $3 per thousand views no we just do I just base the retainer off of a $32 to3 CPM depending on how good they are and so if they're I don't know how well they're going to convert I'll do two and maybe they want like two and a half but I tell them hey we're going to pay you let's say two grand for 1.5 million views or 1 million straight and they could be

like Oh I like that I don't like that got um Jeremiah specifically we were're paying $3 per thousand views so we're getting a million views but on top of that like we're paying him a hefty bonus what's the bonus um right now we pay a couple hundred bucks for million dollar views but we're paying him it's like but just tiered on views you don't to tell me the number um tiered on views but for this we didn't even think this would happen so I'm just paying I'm just throwing him a couple Grand I'm like I'm

like here's okay three to five grand thank you interesting and then we're going to bump up as retainer next month interesting this is the marketing strategy for why I joined WAP and what we're building into the product so would love to talk we can chat I would love to talk to this what I find fun this is this is like this whole CPM based Performance Based pay is like going to be massive so very curious on how we can build it better for you but this is so this is something you're building with like multiple

different creators we have so initially a strategy was and I think going back to like ground zero so took three grand and I was like it's influencers that was the thesis I built and so I was like Alex trust there's a point which we'll get into this as well Alex was doing Reddit marketing and Twitter marketing and for some reason he'd go viral on Twitter and Reddit and he'd be like what the hell are you doing man I'm doing all the marketing getting all the sales like what are you doing with your time I'm like

trust trust and so basically I'd find creators um in the religious and fitness Niche Fitness was more like think trickle down Andrew Tate like very self-help aggro like he's Mr 3:00 a.m. he's like go out 3: a.m. grind and so we targeted those and I paid like 50 bucks to do a one-on-one Consulting call with a religious Creator and I pitched him and he's like all right let's do it and then that was our first thousand day and then it it slowly built from that um but the strategy on how we turned three grand into

I'd say like around 40 was because I would basically only pay 20% up front and the rest of the money would come after the contract was over and after got paid by Apple and so I just like convince them to be like all right money's coming from Apple pay you then how is the contract 20% up front if you don't know how many views they're going to get you're choosing their average no we do a view guarantee we're like on average if you post a video about this you get 250,000 views so that one video

posted on Instagram and Tik Tok is half a million views okay so for four videos right that's 2 million views we'll pay you 4 grand 20% up front it was mainly around half a million views so you're still choosing the CPM based stuff the CPM is how we pitch the retainer we're not telling them it's $3 per thousand views oh that's just an internal thing that's just an internal so I know I'm like okay I can get Brett to get me 500,000 views I'm willing to pay him at most $1,500 I'm going to pitch you

$1,000 for half a million views you're like I don't know all right how's 1250 so you're just deciding we we'll pay a influencer $2 to3 CPM and then you just go go D they have 100,000 on average so I'm going to give them two 200 bucks that makes sense if they can get me 100,000 views per month it's 300 bucks yes but you'll find is's no creators going to do that because they have an ego so you have to find people that can get you at least half a million to a million views a month

for four videos it's four cumulative add why is it four videos um I just found that's what works is just like two that probably had a little a little effort to that it makes sense also like why we would pay them gotcha I'm no offense to that guy I'm just surprised does he like making content similar to this like just very he makes content for a lot of apps I mean it's also he posts like five six times a day are Fitness people like looking to take their shirts off or something cuz like that's like

a very vulnerable he's like in his underwear in his bed I think it's also a lot of a lot of guys that have conquered porn addiction want to help the younger people and that's what we've realized a lot of them are like I'm porn free I want to help the next guy and I'm willing to make relatable content to help them quit boom is there any sort of affiliate model for them we've we're working on that we've done a will'll pay you x per thousand views like a $2 CPM but the issue is with apple

the attribution to find out where the money came in from you can't know you can kind of like figure it out back of a napkin okay like we made this much from this post but we can't guarantee that like Brett brought in $100,000 as most people are going to just go search the app organically on the open the app store exactly gotcha interesting and so you just like tackled different niches this it's so smart it's like showing the emotional pain point someone in the state of your Target demographic and then to fix it they just

are demoing the app right it's not like hey if you guys have a porn addiction go to quitter it's like acting like showing the experience there's that but then there's also hitting pain points so the religious Creator would be like the devil's coming after you commit the lust Etc here are top three ways to quit and then the second thing would be use tools here's a tool that I like to use called quitter he's like I track my steak streak on it Etc gotcha and so with religion it's against God Fitness is low testosterone no

gains Etc self-help is like SE retention so it's what's the value of quitting porn it's not that you stop jerking off it's that you have higher energy you talk to girls you know how to talk to women you can actually find a wife and stop like jerking off the only fans um that's the value you're getting interesting not just the action stopping the value is on the back end of like you actually become a man instead of being a little boy yeah but you know how to speak to each Target toate graphic and what they

value like their value system almost exactly that's so smart so we get to play around with so many different creators and so many different niches and now we're working on targeting larger creators to get them the post to not have a huge influencer team because it's it's very hard to track to know Roi and them were basically in the contract allowing to run their stuff as ads for as long as our contracts with them so um it's piggybacking have you so what we're doing is we're creating these I call it view rewards where you pay

people based off every thousand views they get retroactively so like if you say hey I'll pay you $3.50 for every th000 views you get post a video then submit your video once it has 200,000 views have you ever tried that is is that for influencers or organic creators like Tik Tok shop creators anybody but yeah definitely more like ugc style I think ugc style that works influencers but influencers like they have agents and they have this and they have that and they're like a lot of it is do they resonate with the brand does it

resonate with their content so that's why also like in sourcing influencers I know who I'm going to talk to and who I'm not going to talk to because I'm like this is a waste of time gotcha how many people did it how many influencers were on retainer and how many videos went out to hit 250k a month this month we probably have five or six but I also think what happened was we had two or three to do 100K in our first 90 days mhm um and then it wasn't a lot it was like three

to four and then we started leveraging paid ads using that stuff as paid ads so this month was wasn't just influencers it was a combination of paid ads and influencers and also going viral so you start with paid ad or you start with Organic influencers I think influencers is the way you can boot trap get gritty get off the ground and then the next step is is paid ads and then organic it could be organic or influence I we have friends that do a couple hundred grand a month off of Just organic just depends on

what want to do so the organic is like test some messaging test some demographics find something that works do they let you use their videos as ads yeah we have it in the contract usage rights though yep yep okay some of them want more money there's a premium pay for that on some creators but interesting it's it's generally worth it what are the ads like I guess it just those videos or are you making different types yeah like we rip that video as an ad and it's probably lowest your cost your best performing ad yeah

wow I I'm like it's really simple for me to understand it's so like it's so straightforward it's like like it's logical when you get through it you know like when you're doing it but like there's so many like I have friends that'll text me like hey like I don't mind helping some friends that we came up with like in the app game we were failing but like there's so many nitty-gritty questions I'm like just try it just test it I don't know what this influenc is going to say just send the email and see if

they'll take the deal worst case they say no and what's your intro message what's your first Outreach message cuz I think that's really smart to pay people like I think a lot of people overlooked the fact you just reach out like hey can I pay you for an hour of your time to get your foot in the door if it's like worth it and then that was for that was just me thinking like what's the best way to reach someone right so you have social media channels assume someone has 200k followers you can DM them

on Instagram and Tik Tok odds are not going to respond right it's a low chance they're going to respond they might or they could have in their bio Consulting call right 30 40 50 bucks 100 bucks or they could have an email so what I usually do is DM at the bat I dm' everyone just to have that out there they had to pay consult called that was not like 500 bucks I did it some I probably wasted 150 bucks on some they're like I don't know I don't like this you guys are too young

whatever just starting and then an email and then it's just a number game it's volume you're not going to the first 100 people probably won't respond and now we have we've set up a team of uh virtual assistants out in Pakistan shout out Omar um who he basically runs through all the DMs I basically got him privy on our strategy of finding creators who we want to work with Etc and then we just hit him with a paid promo work quitter we helped you quit porn we have 100,000 plus users X Y and Z if

you're interested in working simply reply or send us your number yeah I think the paid permit part in the beginning is really important cuz when you see a message request like the first line means the most you're not going to click on every single one if you see paid promo no one's going to leave money on the table they're going to click on it so the first word in your Outreach message is paid promo for your and on top of that we run it through our quitter account um and Alex was very heavy on that

the beginning I didn't realize this but if you have a verified account it bumps it in the inbox yeah yeah yeah I didn't know that but that's been super helpful that's good to know we should be doing that from our WAP account wow we're doing it from our employees account thank you instantly going to change that helpful okay so first line it's from your main brand account that's verified first line is paid promo for this person where this app this is what we help you do social proof of 100,000 users so it's not some scam

it's more just like like you said paid promo they see oh I can get paid with this second thing is who we are social proof respond keep it short and sweet I'm not here to convince you to work with us do you tell them how much you're going to pay them right away so I never tell them how much I'd willing to pay them via text okay I always VI do it via call because the moment I say four videos a month this and that they run away if I'm on a call man it's Central

you're just trying to get them on a call because if if you do it over messages you give them a lot of space to like think about it and negotiate whereas if you get on a call like they're very in the moment it's very easy to say yes interesting you give them too much space they're not going to that's when I realized I was like pretty I had a knack for sales I was like oh this is fun like I can just get people on like it's pretty easy like hey like I don't know if

I feel about this and it's was like well do you like really want to help people how much do you post we can make this work um I don't know about the view guarantee well on average you get this many views we've never had someone not have the view guarantee worst case you post another post it's like no harm no foul it's a good pitch dude it's fun I can see the joy in your face it's a game bro I think it's also part of it is they know they're helping opportunity they're helping people like

it's not like we're an app I don't know it's not like we're only fans calling influencers to create content to like a like help it is a pitch of like you will help the people that are struggling with this in your audience and it's like think about when you were young and a kid in middle school or high school kids are doing it even younger now because school bro we had iPod Touches and everybody in Middle School UNC consensually I would just get shown at lunch I'm terrified for my my my cousin man he's he's

young and I'm like they had phones now in like fifth grade there's only fans they don't realize the algorithm is targeting them it's weaponized against them bro for a profit brain rot rewiring brain rot we it's a big word around here can someone please invent a crystal ball until then over 40,000 businesses have future prooof their business with net Suite by Oracle with one unified business management Suite there's one source of Truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions with realtime insights and forecasting you're peering into the future with actionable

data when you're closing the books in days not weeks you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next if I needed this product it's what I'd use speaking of opportunity download the CFO guide to Ai and machine learning at netsuite.com wgmi this guide is free to you at netsuite.com wgmi netsuite.com wgmi thank you for sponsoring today's episode that's kind of I'm very surprised that only five or six influencers got you to six figures yeah it feels like we're just starting like we are just starting we we've come a long way considering how

many pieces aren't super refined yet yeah four months in there's a lot of noise that came in the door as well like in beginning when we hit our first 30k month people try to come in take Equity um things like that we had no agreement for the first probably 45 days between us Alex was like well if you're putting your money like I remember Alex was like if you're putting three grand into this what happens if it doesn't work out between us I was like dude just pay me back in the future I don't care

I here to build a relationship and something awesome like I don't it is what it is that's but yeah we had a bunch of people come in like I mean it it wasn't like all sunshine or rainbows like people see the Twitter and they're like oh my God you this much like it's so easy this and that but like it was it was it wasn't it wasn't easy how Hands-On are you with the influencers on the type of video they make so now I usually have them send me a draft we require them to show

the app in every video um there's certain requirements on the caption of the video and things of that nature of like just the bio of the video um but when it comes down to if I really don't like it I'll say something also depends like some creators won't do the view guarantee we're paying them like eight grand a month because of who they are and we know we can run it as ads and it'll work but I need to make sure the video is a certain way to get views and convert so I'm very Hands-On

with those so the view guarantee meaning I'll pay you $1,500 if you get what three like what is it no I'll pay you it's like hey Brett look you usually get 100,000 views a video um and what we'll do is you give me four videos a month minimum for 500,000 views minimum per month and I'll pay you $1500 okay so you have to hit 500,000 views four videos so if you hit 10 million views your first video you still ow us three more videos Okay so let's say you were pay me $1,000 you give me

$200 today yep and then I'd get $800 once I posted those four and hit those views yep and if you didn't hit the views you post again one more until you hit the views oh you keep posting you have to hit it until and then I say in the contract if it comes to a point of you can't hit the views we'll PR rate your contract okay so we'll give you 700 out of a th000 yeah because you have 700,000 views or whatever and we also encourage them to post on Tik Tok as well so

multi Channel gotcha but still four videos posted across platform not four posts it's four videos eight posts technically interesting and then you just are allowed to use those as ads whenever you want it's in the contract usage rights yep I think it's a big thing is like you said playing into ego and also checking ego because a lot of them like for example if you guarantee a lot of them are like I don't know man and I'm like look it's your job to make videos and get views I am basing this contract off of what

you get on average so if you don't get this on average why am I paying you and it's our job to convert the users to keep paying you gotcha and that's where the product comes in right like we couldn't I feel like we pay like pretty I don't know it's pretty expensive but we can do that because the onboarding that they designed and developed and built in the product works interesting absolutely there a't no Yin without Yang yeah facts so I'm curious did you you said you were marketing on Twitter in the beginning so is

it just Instagram and Tik Tok right now we have some Twitter stuff going out I think right now it's just we we had so much going on I was like it's too noisy let's scale back let's figure out where we're putting money what the return getting our money and so now I'm just building out making sure that okay does this have an Roi yes or no does this influence have an Roi yes or no get rid of them get the next guy so we're building basically right now A Lead list of warm leads of influencers

being like hey I'll work with you next month I don't know if it'll be next month or the month after but point being is we'll bring them in if someone else falls off so we control that Twitter something or on any strategies there and then organic paid ads and then eventually just larger Partnerships like theovon um cool just like ad to his podcast or something yep like George jenko like mail podcast yeah okay hopefully Andrew Tate maybe someday partner with Discord that' be huge that makes sense it seems like you have a lot of surface

area to go so there's no we're in the beginning this is like we're scratching the surface of what could possibly be so cool man that's so exciting now obviously I'm not going to say start another business or anything but like do you feel like there's like a like this could work if you were to start if you had to like shut this app down and you had to make a new one is would you just do the exact same steps like it's a very replicable thing it's super easy a lot of people overco complicate it

but it's just really easy I mean the way I I I wrote a TW tweet on this once and it went viral it was like okay we we pay X Creator they get y views that generates Z downloads generates a revenue we reinvest a revenue into more B distribution and that whole cycle piece itself interesting how many followers do you have on Twitter like seven like8 8,000 now how many did you have like I reached out to you like a month and a half ago I think I'll see any if anyone ever DM me I'll

see it and I literally just found you organically on Twitter when you had like 2,000 followers and then I watched the one YouTube video you have and I'm like I like this kid and I'm going to invite him on the part which one did you watch you were like outside of a house was it B oh no no it was in the party it was you out you were almost like crying you were so excited yeah yeah oh yeah this is this is a funny story actually so up to August 2024 I was dead broke

literally no money to my name me and Zach so Zach was on your podcast everyone who's probably watching this saw that Zack podcast as well we bumped into each cover in Miami cuz we both snuck into a hotel and yeah and and he was making like 1K a month at the time I was making zero I was super fascinated like what you're making one grand a month through software like that's insane um and then he got into apps I followed that journey and I went from dead broke to you know 250k in a month and

in about a year and look at Zach now he's doing like 1.5 million a month so that random event in in Miami bumping into into him at a hotel like that was such a moment for this space honestly it's so interesting bro I found you independently from him too which is crazy but you it's just so like do you have like other friends that are the same age yeah I think the build space event I went to um people I met at that event are also now making waves in the space is it the same

strategy just like the same Prett much pretty much like just consumer apps and then I mean there's so many distribution angles like people can do faceless content carousels um influencers won't always work for every product like the Ed Tech space right fun in like doing AI writing tools and stuff there's not really influencers you can hire for that but they all just rip each other's organic content post the same style with their own organic creators and they all go viral again and they make like 50 cents per download or per paid user and I'm like

that's CRA like their margins are so SL it's getting really refined though I I see what you're saying huh there's a lot you can do and there's a lot of space to do I just think there's no one-sized fits all like someone might watch and be like oh my God I do influencers it's like evaluate are there influencers in your Niche that will work yes yes or no look at the other strategy test them all and then hammer down what works is there a clear pain point is there a value system you could speak to

that's just marketing though like the how to how to talk to people copyrighting so I'm curious what tools you guys use to build all this like first off we'll start with product I I have a ton of design questions I we'll get to design I promise but what tools did you use to actually like how did you code it with swift or what yeah yeah so pretty much Swift chat GPT Firebase the real simple what is Firebase so it's a database so you can store like all the community features are stored what are you using

chbt for just to help me build features that I haven't learned myself to code basically so if I'm like like for instance the whole Community feature I just asked chat to code it for me and it coded your app like that a lot of it a lot of it yeah a lot of it yeah are you like a trained programmer like how long have you been developing I think I've been coding for about two three years now and my first project was rebuilding Twitter in from scratch with swift UI so you just use Swift chat

to help you and then Firebase yeah is there and your devel or designer figma I assume exactly anything else literally just figma nice so I give adex the designs and he literally just Crees it how' you do those animations that are like follow is that just a video the animations follow the ball to breathe with the ball that's code that's code okay so what other I saw that onboarding screenshot was mix panel so all of your like data to see like onboarding metrics what where people fall off using mix panel y yeah any other tools

that you're using super W SQL super wall super wall we use for payall so we can AB tests on the Fly and test different pricing different designs and then also monitor the results so super wall super wall and that's in the app like integrated into the App Store yeah it's like a it's like a Plugin or something it's yeah it's a package it's a separate entity but you put it into a package and Swift that you that you just put in into the app and then in real time you can up the one thing that's

cool is super actually took my payable and used it as a template on their website anyone who like has an app of their own can Lally go on the website template did they ask permission for that no they they just stole our pay so high converting so you designed it with their tool they've got like a internal like design like allart custom build and then you just designed made a really good custom build like temp using some assets from Adobe I just bring it on and now they're just that's a compliment bro hell yeah um

I'd say on the distribution side of things so I mean Scrappy built a system with VAs on the back end using Google Sheets finding creators um where where did you find the Vas funny enough sophomore year I graduated from Villanova in May civil engineering then found myself in the sophomore space wild yeah um but while I was there sophomore year I was flipping websites and I met this guy through Fiverr Omar and we stayed in touch and he's done work for me for the past what five years so he found your VR on Fiverr yeah

like sophomore year so what that's no it's like four years ago now wow and um always stay in touch with him super good English because his dad was American clutch nothing better than a good VA there's no ever like a um barrier I guess to speaking with him and then I was like you want to do work and he was like yeah and so now he's handling a sourcing putting on a Google sheet dming them and then to manage them actually we use a platform called groy um so I actually think that the developer used

to work at [ __ ] really uh Solomon I think we talked about this the other day yeah so you do groy for INF grow basically helps manage our entire like from we haven't filled of forms keep them in an otion database but once they get on board to grow how we pay them contracts you pay them through grow yeah and then basically Gro and Chi they posted four videos eight posts across Tik Tok and Instagram they hit the view guarantee and we can pay out and it tracks the amount of views they have yep

cool man so that makes our life so much easier yeah for sure and I can focus on just texting them to make sure hey did this get posted what's the video looking like it's a lot of following up can you talk to them directly through groy um no there's SMS blasts but I haven't used that yet I just created a group chat with the um I hired someone to help manage creators now so I can focus on the organic stuff and some other moves we're making but interesting do you have any automations use text SMS

email at all um we have an email uh automation just to zappier once we confirm they sign the contract we check it off in notion they get an onboarding email to make sure that we sent them this is how it's supposed to be done if you don't do this you will not get paid are you using a docu sign or like a oh we use agree.com agree.com but for contracts yep do you have any text automations or emails natively in the product what to to download yeah yeah I mean we collect all the emails in

the on boarding so they can we hit with a wall where you can sign in with Google Apple or Skip and if you do sign in then we have the email stored we'll just send them email automations if they haven't bought a subscription yet the design seems pretty important though like especially in the consumer social space so like what was the thought process behind it you said you made it cool so it's all black we just wanted to give the impression that it's a premium product and if something's premium people are more willing to pay

for it how do you do that I I think you just need to make everything really simple refined and use good fonts and colors and just make that whole experience enjoyable what font do you use TM sounds it's Google font what is it DM SS is that's like the whole product yeah that font yeah what else were you saying um yeah so I mean if we just have all these different things that come in conjunction to build a brand people are more willing to pay but if it looks Scrappy and just put together like no

one's going to pay for that interesting I feel like that's like the number one thing I saw all people struggle with when I used to make content on software is design was always atrocious is there like so that's the font is there anything else like padding distance or like so we use a a principle where we only use multiples of four so the same size as the text like the text size would be a multiple of four so it be 12 16 18 terms of the pading it will follow the same principle so it would

do about eight pixels away from the border interesting that allows the app to be just very clean as Alex was saying like Sleek um so if any designers are listening to this follow that one principle use a m for for everything you do with design yeah interesting I think a lot of apps get that wrong they just they think just cuz they built a product and they're solving a solution that is going to sell but there's so much more at play that you have to get the brand nailed like you have to get the brand

nailed like we initially started with the app name called noap so the whole movement is called nofap so if we just leverage that name as our app name then the SEO would go crazy that was trademark so we couldn't do it but quitter now it's like look get on quitter quit porn and it it works that makes sense yeah it's great looking back at it too it's kind of funny how this all happened I love growth he loves product and he loves design and it's like looking back at it you never would have thought it

would all just meshed because you could look you could build an app make it really crappy nail distribution then get money slowly build it better you could build a back app product heavy and have little distribution but has a high K Factor but I think what makes this work is that we all genuinely work together and it works what's churn looking like looked at it today retention rates I'd say they're above average for the industry when we looked at it for 30day 90day or 60 day and 120 day mhm so okay how do you how

have you combed churn or what would be steps to combat churn um I honestly don't think we've looked into it much MH yeah that's one of the things that's on our road map and that's why we say we're so far behind in so many ways because we haven't thought about this stuff you probably don't have enough data to really we don't either we sell mostly yearly plans to retention doesn't matter cuz once they pay us we got their money we just reinvest it but to answer your question I think that reten and preventing churn comes

down to building authority so we reached out to some YouTube pod not YouTube YouTubers who are really well connected in the whole like uh your brain how to protect your brain anti- porn anti- this and when I talk to them it was very professional they're like well if we want to work with it you guys you have to do a study for six months we'll put people through it make sure it works this and that that and this blah blah blah blah blah blah a whole board that approves you and I it made me realize

I was like the next step is involving things of that nature where you go do close studies you figure out everything and then you involve the scientist neur neurologist it's true research study interesting and then that's I think when you get to the next level where it's like you could have one-on-one support like you could have high ticket offers um I think also making the app more customizable but like you said we don't have enough data to do that right now High ticket offer absolutely makes sense that's so interesting it's it's like an info product

in a way but with a very nice UI a very good like an actual product behind it streamline information and actual like tools and everything the community the community part is the biggest mode we have though yeah because you can consume all the resources use the tools and they' be defunct but like the community stays forever what am I not asking was there anything this is where my lack of research might not serve me how do how do you get to the next level what's next yeah okay cool I think I actually made this tweet

earlier but I deleted it it was it was I wrote project liquid Def and I'm sure you're aware like they just sell water but they what1 million do billion dollar how do they get to that point through great branding and you know all these stunts that they do and I think you know porn is such a like only fans and stuff is such a big thing but the the the other aspect of that is is our app it's very unknown so I think if we pull IRL stunts like we go to these porn star uh

IRL conventions and we just throw purple paint everywhere we're reing the purple by the way if you want to put we're becoming a like purple La basically like anti- orange right why is everything Orange in that industry I have no idea no idea it's like every restaurant's red so every one of those sites are typically orange But but so that's why purple just because it's the opposite of and I think it's something like imagine you I mean this would be a stunt but like imagine you found where like I don't know only fan models are

hanging out and you just throw like purple like goo on them as like a YouTube video and it's like what the hell is this and it's like quit neutralized them well you like a GoFundMe on Twitter's whole like app no the those viral stunts are like really effective your goal is to aim for viral what Mar supposed to be exactly yeah other than scaling right we want to scale influencers organic's a huge push we haven't even tapped into that yet at all um paid ads Twitter multi- channel right partners with churches dioses things of that

nature there's a big one but other than that it's like Alex said we need to really solidify ourselves as the brand yeah I mean you guys are in the position now that you rank number one that you have the direct to Consumer stuff down but like if you really want to scale up it's all about brand awareness exactly and just getting that word in people's heads to the point where they if they ever associate you know I have a problem I need to go to that thing you guys it's a really good product it's very

clear what you do it's like it also justifies spending 50 grand for a podcast plug with Theo right it's like we don't know if this is going to convert to make us 50 Grand on the podcast but our goal right now is awareness Tak risks yeah you need and that brand Association yeah so I mean our our strategy is has shifted a lot recently now we're just putting money up to ads so we have like 40 Grand a month in spend and it's bringing in I don't know like three or four row as and now

we're we're thinking about just stunts because that one video with Jeremiah that reached $100,000 in a day that showed us how valuable virality is and so if we optimize for that we should be you know you know Luca Nets you ever heard of lucet py penguins he he was the CMO of Jael blasters which is the number one selling toy America and that's all they did was just challenges like they did like the gel blasters like driveby challenge you just like stay to drive by I think it's a bit hard for on TI to an

anti-p porn company I I like your idea of like getting doing it with the the villains of the industry oh no that was the that was the thought yeah I mean it's like scaling paid ads influencers I think a big thing with influencers that Their audience is primed for the product and that's why it works so well um but I'm curious to see like for example Jeremiah how does it work in four months it still convert the same way um if he's still going viral he's going to reach new people so it should if you're

not going viral maybe it's a thre Monon all right we're we're going have this for three months to move to the next guy and then we can also invest comedians skits um partnership general just like he said virality go to Time Square and like just pop goo on everyone that'll work imagine we found like all the child Predators living in New York City and targeted them with like goo yeah that would get part with Vitality on thatal like that'd be crazy we're we're we just lined up a tweet where it's going to be like quitter

in talks to purchase PornHub and and shut it down everyone be like who the hell is quitter yeah exactly but people like it and be like finally thank God someone's taking action Grand awareness is going to help us so much it's also that's like a whole that's like a figure till you make it right we're no position to buy por or anyone well just like a troll as long as you're liart and fun about it and not actually like going out of to make it look like extremely real it's just like funny I literally saw

yesterday on Twitter someone acting like he's the new head of listings at coinbase and he changed that to his bio and he's getting like millions of Impressions and everyone thinks it's real they're all like list my coin I'm like guys God so I don't know the I don't know the legality of these strategies but all it know is it gets attention that's I mean we're targ these are like me Pages yeah funny they get a lot of it's like a what is it uh the Bee or something what the onion type of stuff yeah exactly

that's interesting I have a a format that we just did that would crush for you guys I'll show you guys right after this it got like 300K views on our first time like first day and it's just super subliminal but it would work perfectly for what you guys do too is there anything else you guys want to go through I think this is like I like to keep it concise straight to the point how the strategy Works what you emphasize with onboarding I think this marketing strategy the design principles and then that onboarding flow is

really what made the appak I got two things right so one everything has to be holistic to be exceptional and to work fluidly if you're lacking in one area you're not going to kill the whole thing yeah exactly right another thing is if you're going into marketing show the app in the video mhm I think Zach said this as well if you don't show the app you're not going to make as much money like we've had videos reached like multiple millions of views but they've only brought in like, $2,000 cuz we have quit P quitter

in the actual description we don't have them sh the app so I don't think views matter necessarily if you if you're not showing the app oh you need to show the app yeah you need no for this strategy that's like the key it's like organically the app is being used in the app but Sol the problem also it's understanding that look paino either show it tell it and then the app's solution like I just got rid of probably $10,000 with a contract value yesterday because we realize we signed them they're going to integrate the product

into the video but they want to integrate it a minute two minutes and I'm like no and then they're like I I was like let's just give us a refund we'll pay for your time let it be like it's not going to work but it's like they have the target audience but it doesn't work with the video so it's not worth the views that we're paying for makes sense you have to learn that through iteration oh exactly I think another thing to mention is also don't procrastinate if you have an app idea and you have

a way to do it just build it right you don't have to be exceptional just to start my first app failed I'm pretty sure his first app like just go do it don't like be perfect like you don't have the perfect words on the DM like just go send DMS to 2,000 influencers and see who responds and the next 2,000 change it up like you don't want to procrastinate and then just nothing happens you stay where you are so I think that's a huge piece of this like you really just need to just like try

it over and over and over and over and then one day it'll hit mhm and stop Reinventing the will all these million dollar apps have done the research Navy testing for you why why do you think you're different M you know so it's like start as fast as possible take reference from people who are the best at what they do get your thing out there don't overthink the onboarding put effort into it but get it out basically pretty much and find what works solve a problem and if you can't solve a problem make someone problem

aware and then solve that problem that's the marketing lingo we left right there there we go all right well guys I appreciate you coming all the way out here cross the ocean for me you coming acoss country from DC appreciate you where can they people will find you if they want to reach out to you um Twitter Twitter what your handle um bread boy Mac nice I'll link in the description Alex Slater two L's Chris SL two US awesome well guys if you're looking to make build an app reach out to them I'm sure they'll

help you I appreciate you guys coming on sharing everything thanks for having us fun conversation you guys are beast keep crushing it