AD LEGEND Piyush Pandey on How He Made India’s Biggest Ads, Creativity & The Art of Storytelling

why can't anything else become a ficol overnight because you'll have to keep doing it people's expectations your KN will ask you when is the next Fe then it becomes a part of your [Music] bloodstream so when you go home I have told clients when you go home when you meet your wife you say hello sweetheart how are you doing University cricket and under 22 cricket and even R trophic Cricket us to travel in unreserved second class third class compartments for 48 hours sometimes from Delhi to Chai to Bangalore Bangalore to myour City over 40 hours

but that's where you were seeing India that's where you seeing people that's where you were meeting people that's where somebody gave you AATA rolled up to say that's where I learned advertising okay sir so my name is shantanu Deshpande I the founder and CEO of Bombay shaving company these are old logo but we have rebranded um I originally come from the city of Pune uh so I was did my schooling there engineering from Nur business school to myam LNO then I was a consultant at McKenzie for five years and then I start so have the

most standard career path ever and uh one thing that I've done entrepreneurship for nine years sir and uh over the last two years I have brought uh uh eminent leaders in the world of thought whether it's entrepreneurship business um if it's philanthropy education Etc to this place we call the Bara shop it's actually usually mostly hosted in our office in Delhi you should have called it this is called Nike HH Nike du Nike du the Bara shop consumers we younger consumers who look up to entrepreneurship as a potential you know destination for them to achieve

their dreams right um and I think telling stories and you exemplified this in the possible telling stories of people who have been there done that is probably the best way to do it so babashop is a place where they people come they share their stories the spal theme is entrepreneurship but conversations go all over the place like the conversations go into uh being a father or a mother conversations going to like difficulty failure Vinita let it Let It Go openly right and I start in fact um if you go back to the history of n

huh and one more thing used to happen old days this is serious stuff correct used to take the N had a big role in our society especially in smaller townships where it was like one Nike Duan for the village of the town the NY also had the responsibility because that's when the person would be his most vulnerable relaxed self so would share with the NY and NY had a responsibility of being sacran with information could easily have been a gossiper but actually was using it for yeah business deal a big role yeah so Baba shop

is a place where people come and usually we dissect Industries companies experiences but the wealth of experience that you bring sir and you know uh you're one of one of the people we look up to a lot in our organization we sell shaving products some we we are we are trying to build a company out of India that competes with Gillette Philips V Venus our investors V is our investor as well um but you know telling stories is something we do for a living but um we'll try we'll get into it like the I wanted

to start off with the world of advertising and how it has changed given just the nature of media is so different today um looking at today's perhaps is a very narrow look at advertising goes back to when it was not even called advertising correct the very fact that and the word used to travel you had the lus from with it shop sh very that's correct so any communication was advertising correct and it's seen so many forms over the years when media came and the best advertising I seen in my life is when I used to

be in college I'm a jaur boy I did my school in jur M and then I got into to St Stevens's College in Delhi okay we used to go on buses and trains that's the kind of money that was available to the family for Miles together on those walls there used to be something written by that brush big and just kept saying he kept wondering what it's been 5 kilm just keep saying then in between they used to come one used to come and then you realize when he saidur I remember the thing satura he

was a matrimonial company shop okay company and nothing he spent he just went to the Village said he got you involved saying yeah what the hell is this the passing train you for 10 15 20 kilom one one place only said what is but now you're watching yeah he has got you engaged that is the key to engagement is the key to any kind of communication it is not about me telling you something whether you listening or not I have got you involved he what he saying and then when you realize that this guy is

saying is saying okay I'll get marriageable boys and girls meet each other through their families correct and I can help you get them married yeah brilliant stuff what they call teasers right now this was Bloody father of teasers that is true I actually went to their Outlet many years later when I when I got into no many years later when I got into advertising and I used to remember this now the old man had died one lady was there business was not I just sat and chatted with them I wish i' had gone 10 years

earlier and met the real guy but that is um what advertising in communication is correct so what we are seeing right now in the last 2 three years this is complete crap um because it's not engaging it's counting so many people are reached and I'm asking a very simple question how many people did you impact correct that is the question correct you reach so many but they were sleeping or you reach them in such a fashion that you were so boring that they didn't give a damn yeah so that is what what to me communication

is but I think you're absolutely right I think there are some iconic communication story that for me like they they create mental models in my brain which will be there from the age of 10 12 till the time that you know I I'm on this planet and because of the power of Engagement and the fact that I was interested and I was at an age where it kind of made an imprint but today I see that a I would see advertising only on a television when my mom was watching a Serial for example or if

I'm watching a cricket match or if I'm reading the newspaper and on the sports page there is something yeah that media become so proliferated there are so many Brands and political organizations and you know e-commerce companies and just talking so now it's becoming about who can talk a the loudest for Impressions and B the most crazy thing that stays so if you it doesn't have to be crazy it's the most interesting thing is is it see it is if I tell you a story that you want to pick up the phone tell your friend y

somebody's told me a fantastic story you're not counting whether it was 5 seconds or 10 seconds you saying I heard something fantastic when people are bombarding you when you said that the first thing that you said that either somebody is all over yeah around you actually they irritate you that's the worst advertising to do I'm telling you something that you didn't like but I'm telling you 50 th000 times that's what I'm seeing on IPL yes right now I'm seeing one movie starts two movie starts three movie stars Four movie stars in 20 seconds time yeah

and none of them is s anything to me none of them I want to remember yeah so that is waste of money that is what I call uh advertising which is not doing the job but IPL is again it's it's a decibel war and now the decibal war has become a how funky can you be that has to be memorable in some way see funky is not the only memorable like the hey so sorry for disturbing your viewing experience but if you like the content we're putting out please like And subscribe uh it will help

us bring more content to you enjoy the one ad that I like on this IPL H is not funky at all either R Sharma and Shi one correct it's a little story beautifully said he's not funky he's not saying yeah May one guy will come and say um that um go take a flying whatever correct so I think that one guy got away with rul been getting angry doesn't Define advertising no it does not what do you think about that that kind of advertising is like kind of like for me as a brand owner I

always wonder whether great stories kind of attribute to Brand love over a period of time unless they do it unless they do it it's waste of money if you don't love a brand then appearing 20,000 times around me is useless completely useless same time I will show you something from ficol huh it would it has not run 50,000 times it it ran five times and you have gone and told 50,000 people correct that created brand love now you say that there's a simple little thing which you and I don't use on a day-to-day basis which

was used to make this table and you say I love it the way they tell me the story I love the guys yeah so you started by talking about brand love brand love comes from the fact that how beautifully does your brand talk to you like today you take cat Beres dairy milk it's such a lot of brand love correct because they into phenomenal scenario of generosity they're not selling chocolates for the last 5 years they're saying okay Shah ruk Khan actually came in and spoke on behalf of the small retailer yeah you say yeah

this is my brand what wonderful things it does it does things like um the want that be nice and find your first coach correct and be grateful to the person correct now these things that make you uh give you brand love things that I tell you that this chip was made from a farm which had this kind of seed and this and that and get lost get lost but do people like this is this long-term play people you making it sound simple but telling a story over and over again which is powerful simple and hits

the emotion of the of the viewer in a way that is almost uh transformative in that moment is not an easy art like we try to do it it's not an easy art an easy art but over and over again at the on the 30th of the month you want a salary that's not easy art for you to give it to me yeah so Learn to Earn yeah if you don't learn to earn then it's one of thing show me how do you take it forward and I hope you do I'm not saying that you're

useless correct but take it forward like you said over and over and over again that's where the life is people one thing that I learned over a period of time is that communication has to be consistent authentic and has to feel like it's coming from a human being it has to touch you there human yeah it cannot be from a brand or a company or organization it has to come from a human like feol for example was just like the people who you visually I remember there was what that ch ch chip chip chip chip

chip chip that whole thing right it was so Fe Qui one of the products of Fe callip en so for me for 30 years we have done all of light all of all of heavy Quake all of MC all of this thing if 30 years is not um something that is difficult M and what is difficult 30 years but we have had a ball yeah we had a ball so we wanted to do the next one we had a ball and people had a ball and I come back to the Baba shop correct the success

of my ads I believe I think and I've written about it also it's not about the numbers you show me here and there it is about people look forward to it right that is bigger than an award to me yeah the real person but that he knows that I do those but he's putting pressure on me next he loves it that is brand love yeah I think for but it's so important to understand that it has to be a simple story that is told over a period of time and people write to you and saying

sir I've got 10 ideas in fol so you have inspired him to inspired the creative person in him correct I would love it that people really of course yeah when and thousands of thousands of letters I have that people said I have a picol idea which is lovely people should think that way the magic of creativity that all of us are creative it's just that some are suppressed from every angle to say but tell me about about how did you get from that St Steven's boy who was riding trains and intrigued by ads over 20

km of a Boral shop to someone who became a padmashri award author and probably but very important which I want to talk to you about but I because hopefully some young people will be listening to you and me and we take something from what I'm saying there's not no G there's no Five Point program I was number eight child Seven Sisters above me and number eight child in a middle class family and only interested in cricket but my sisters were always encouraged to do anything creative that they do in my house there was one playing

sitar one was doing debating practice with my father one was singing songs the one who was singing songs her name is ilun all of you know her wow that's my older sister so when later on in later years when I came into advertising I realized that I was playing Cricket but breathing art breathing Society say more breathing people around for that was around me somebody was doing something they but I was in the house so I was playing cricket and this culture was around me all the time which I didn't realize and then I playing

a lot of cricket later on also I went on to play ranji trophy also later correct those days there was no money in cricket University cricket and under 22 cricket and even RI trophy Cricket used to travel in unreserved second glass third glass compartment for 48 hours sometimes from Delhi to Jenai Chennai to Bangalore Bangalore to myour City over 40 hours but that's where you were seeing India that's where you seeing people that's where you were meeting people that's where somebody give you a rolled up to say that's where you saw families talking to each

other that's where I learned advertising there's a chapter in my book which is called training on Wheels the whole chapter is on Railways what I learned from Railways without realizing that one day it come handy it's it's a world in itself right it's a world in itself and what why I said what I said about young people are listening to us that everything is learning around you you will say thank God and I tell people that you ignored your parents and your surroundings and now you're going trying to go and do research to same kind

of people it was around you damn it yeah but ask I spoken in my talks to and all all these modern day and I said to the people I said life is a balance there a balance between what I'm going to say to you life is a balance computer [Music] find the bance yeah right so if you don't want to see what's around you you're missing out then why do some people Excel they bring life to it do you think the world like do you think world was simpler without the data because I think the

more data you have the Lesser human instinct you have the Lesser human instinct you have the more difficult things become to understand I agree I agree because you can have data but you can't ignore correct life you so data can't give you human relationships can't give he does tell you coming back to the story that you asking about me and my Cricket and all that so then I that's what I was doing and because I had very poor marks in science maths which my parents got me to do in those days there was nothing else

engineer and because that my poor marks was gave me Arts only and thereafter for five years I was in scholarships because I was in the wrong subject and I was playing Cricket so it was win win which just happened and what was the breaking point like what was it a mentor a coach a particular success story for you what who later on went to teach at harbard business school okay my class mate who actually told my parents but they almost their jws SP when he said that why don't you allow him to go to St

sens said s who's going to give him admission and by S you know he'll be moving around in Good Company correct something will inspire him and I'm there I will try and Inspire him and my parents agreed I don't know how they agreed and uh then they gave me Arts they gave me admission because of my Cricket H and gave me arts and first year in college I stood first in the University really H now that I'm sitting in jur at at my aunt's place and my another friend who went in Delhi from North from

Central secret that's place to Old Delhi that's where s was where the results were put up and he called to my mother and said do you know your son has come first in the University she said you must have read it wrong go back to the university and read it again so the faith was concrete Yeah so basically when you find what you like doing and there's the second thing I hope people U see some Merit in what I'm saying which is when you find something that you're passionate about you are bound to do well

no matter what it is you are doing this Bombay shaving company thing without having a single hair on your head I shave my head I shave my head that's your passion yeah think but passion like it's a very like you say it again you simplify it because you have experienced it and now you have the benefit of hand side but try to manufacture passion also no they go when you try and manufacture a passion you are making it difficult for you correct how do you distinguish how do you know that you're passionate versus how do

you know that you're I have to manifest it I have to work hard towards it when you work hard towards it then that means you're trying to chase something to achieve something fion is I want to do that photography and suddenly [Music] realiz or it could be drawing or it could be singing I mean where does this come from when we put on TV and see that young Talent yeah singing correct it blows your bloody Brains it's crazy it's actually come from everyone's parent was not a great singer correct but it came from your urge

to say I want to learn just passion passion for excellence in a particular field is that EXC Excellence comes later passion for enjoying it when you enjoy it you get better when you become better you become close to Excellence correct it's a virtual cycle I agree with that it is I mean when I when people ask me that when you do campaigns how do you know it's a great campaign and I tell them I don't I only know that I when I'm putting it through that it's a good idea let's go with it great is

decided by the audience not by me correct but do you have is is that instinct sharpened over a time I now know that in milk that India will go M this will be a very good ad to do for catb dairy milk I didn't know that it's going to become an iconic thing forever so do your best do your best to say okay this I think should go forward and the world takes it up there in the skies that's enjoy the game I want to break this down a little bit like the the the Cadbury

girl dancing ad right and I try to think about this for us also and in general I'm Observer of great communication across media right I think there are a lot of variables that like the classic saying is the thread has to go through a lot of eyes of many needles for it to work right so it's the music it's the girl the model herself it's the choreography it's the expression of the the boy when he sees her it is also the timing of that ad at a time for India a country when we were seeing

such come up and so on right so how much can you really data plan versus no data plan happens when passion is there she's gone mad about what she loves correct that means we will not get a choreographer we did not really yeah he left it to her yeah me and directed the film we said we took 14 T we only use the first one are you serious after first first one Mah and I hugged each other and said but we use the first form what you seen in your life is the first first take

music had recorded earlier only and um Louie and I very little time Louis Banks and I we and Lou bed the first one and both of us started crying we said okay this is it we are not doing anymore and then things kept happening and sometime there is always a God who puts everything together like which keeps adding to your passion and God says okay you have deserved this I'll give you this chani more this chani more from there yeah so and how did how did it like for example with catur or dairy milk right

how did you see that or you've seen the fic Journey for 30 years or the Cadbury Journey it many many times people very quickly attribute to one good ad it's never one good ad it's always a large set of people think why can't anything else uh become a ficol overnight correct because you'll have to keep doing it people's expectations your KN will ask you when is the next Fe go so that is your passion that tells you let me do something equally funny let me do something equally human let me do something that equally touches

the hearts of people around you then it becomes a part of your bloodstream do you always do you put pressure on yourself as you become more and more and that's the thing with success right success especially in the creative field because it's so variable dependent like you're only as good as your last movie you're only as good a batsman as your last inning you're a cricketer correct so are you only as good as your last campaign in which case you become more and more Rovers which makes it completely counterproductive to making great creative that is

the joy of it this is not good enough and and there is a huge Ro that your client plays okay they never told me they only told you when you get the next idea now when he says this kind of thing then he owns my shower time a [Music] true when people give you a brief which is so rightly [Music] defined best client are the one to keep it open-ended for you and do you think as an as an advertising professional let's say you represented like to build out India's largest agency one of the global

Giants in the space but I think individually what you stand for is what clients could come to is that and is that a thing like institution versus IND individual in the creative world is a very unique like there's a backing of ins a good it's a good question because institutions are actually made by individuals when individuals come together it becomes an institution correct that I agree when institution attracts people then you become a better institution correct so it's a circle so it's not that all the world work of is done by me only no how

can you do that kind of work whole lot of people around you who came in because they said you know it I'll probably get the chance to do the kind of things I want to do then they do those kind of things then they attract more people correct so it's a but sometime I wonder like even at Consulting like McKenzie for example they would say Consultants whose client pull becomes larger than the institutional pull or doctors you want to go to the best cardiologist wherever she's practicing or he's practicing whether it's at Max Fortis but

you know Apollo hinduja ET I don't care which hospital they're at I want to go to them only fair enough so in in in in in a field like yours is that how Industries are built and which is fine I think that's how no but there are two three things I mean I've seen it with doctors and everything key two three people they travel with them there also you realize this is not a game which can be played alone no Brian Lara could win a series for westes despite being the best in the world he

needed surround correct so yes when this people change you will realize don't ever think when the best of the tennis players in the world we think that they won the there's one guy who only getting his this muscle correct correct there's one guy who's getting his blood pressure and all these things right correct so again coming back to what you're saying it's a very interesting conversation on creativity that don't ever be insecure I come and share something with you and you say to me okay P if we add this to that I can either be

insecure to say and that's when it grows correct and when you L for 30 years or more or less whatever other people have done it is that openness it is that lack of insecurity that makes otherwise that's when you get confined correct I've seen people who have added one little thing to my ad which became iconic and I look back and say give me examples and there's a very famous example of there's a ad that I did for m h called the will okay where this B blood cheating getting his dying grandfather to to find

at zeros H to add Z 0 Z at the end of the film that one drop comes and Falls onto the one correct and he left with a whole lot of zeros correct when I wrote the film I was making the drop drop onto the to his signat which amounts the same thing correct but the joy of now it's a huge difference correct much younger person than me who came and said P sorry to tell you this how about you drop yeah this is much better idea he just only shifted my drop from a signature

1 in away to a one on top that's all it was but story very Twisted no yeah story became Larger than Life I still remember the expression of the old [Music] person I can't do anything you're holding my hand and adding zero correct and he's his face says that you bastard I don't this yeah yeah I remember him very clearly but but he's not listening he's only adding Zer that's true and tell you something thing like for create it's amazing actually I think about this and I come from like my my my grandmother was a

musician my mom is a hindustani classical singer as is my brother so I come from a family that is Arts oriented even though I've had a very kind of engineering MBA kind of life doesn't matter but I I know creative creativity comes with a the ability to listen and make it better even if it comes from sources which may not be the most natural source of creativity otherwise absolutely but there's also creative stubbornness when it comes to composition of a song or let's say a story and to say I know this is right and I

don't want it to change Beyond this how do you balance not being like being secure in your idea and not being stubborn with your idea see again that's passion passion is telling you I can actually do something more so that's why you try stubbornness is to say nothing better than this can ever be done no that's when somebody comes and says drop that water on the first there certain amount of humility to the creativity that process it has to be you know it one suggestion one this thing one little bird doing some action can tell

you maybe I should that's that's that's the magic of creativity I mean at some point of time the greatest of classical musicians say on this one and then say okay that demands it I'm demanding what happened to my coffee I don't know coffee CH think maybe it's com so where should it stop is up to you it's a big distinction right do you have a love for your art or do you have a love for the art and alaka for example a classic example I'm I love the T and they say that if you want

to see passion in his eyes watch him when he's playing the T and you want to see love for the art in his eyes watch him watching his son playing the tah I've seen them both play together and I always whenever I watch their videos on YouTube I've not been this distance both playing together because after mesur huh we did another film on National integration called rag D rag okay in which they played together and they getting the the lyric right only by the T sound yes I remember that was it the national anthem almost

like yes it actually gives me gooseb because I think there was two segments of that was it am I getting it right was it one which was the vocal where like all and and and then in between pieces with played by the master like the and his father and many more that was magic I to [Music] because yes and that's that's the thing about art like they have that they have a very cool M Matrix is when you start your artistic career they say more but I think it's applicable everywhere you it's in four four

sectors okay what you know and what you think you know okay cor so the you start as a 20-year-old saying I know not and I know not that I know not then you move you have a mentor you have do two three and you go into I know not but I know that I know not correct and then you move towards I know and I know that I know and then the final like the Nirvana is I know but I know not that I know correct and that is when you are mesmerized by curiosity and

passion because you're telling yourself an when you say the an that means then you are limiting you're limiting is stopping yourself from saying I hey so sorry for disturbing your viewing experience but if you like the content we're putting out please like And subscribe uh it will help us bring more content to you enjoy who are your first mentors are like when you started like you you speak from a place of I think you're you're distilling a lot of human beings who kind of my place was my home my mother my father my sisters your

cricketing friends my cricketing friends at a slightly later age As I Grew in cricket by the time I was now shifting to college but going back there so it's it's a package it's a complete package learning but professionally like once you started delivering to clients once you were in a larger organization you had a boss Etc were the people who kind of Cu all of this is raw material right in a way yeah professionally bits and pieces professionally from people yeah what will please that barber yeah that day somebody said something so nice how maybe

I can do something so still I think Mentor was life is it what I saw in life what I enjoyed in life and yes there was some things like um my first boss a man called sures Malik he's the actually the father of mumar he got me to write the song but the entire concept was his okay so he used to say something very nice U and that I liked and I always practiced it he said you know when people sing brand names five times that's called a jingle when you write a song it's called

a song so like you said it's not direct at all because that's what D dasan was doing and that was spoon feeding when was spoon feeding people are not feeling it when they're not feeling it they don't think it's the national end in anything that I do I I don't write the I don't sing the brand name ever and yet make that's it you're placing tremendous Trust in two things you're placing tremendous trust in your ability to tell a story that engages consumers and two in and this is this is which something which I find

much harder to do you're placing tremendous trust in the viewer to have the intelligence and patience to understand and Achieve what you want them to achieve without that you're zero my brother who a filmmaker he's the maker of all P calls and everything and he says fill in the blank NE the I got it I got it you to make them feel smart yeah I got it so that is the most that's where he gets engaged well you're talking to somebody who's not dumb you're talking to somebody [Music] so if you do not respect your

audience you will try and spoon feed you try and spoon feed you will not make make him feel it when you can't make him feel it you have to run it 100 times when you run it 100 times that is so true it's a virtual cycle where you're kind of feeding I don't like this damn thing not St so it's so basically you coming back to your interesting question basically you're saying you and then it becomes it opens up the canvas of Intelligent Communication so much more why do why do lots of people like walk

the roads I'm at the airport strange people some is 50y old some gentlemen older there 18y old when I did the catb they were not born and they'll come and sir I love your work that because he was able to participate in the work yeah so you're saying three things one is inclusiveness second is curiosity by making them feel intelligent and third is respecting them enough to know that starting with the respect without the respect then you are saying everything so simple if you take it back why why there Nursery runs in English Hindi any

language because you sing so you're getting them to engag correct engage you get them getting them to participate you're not telling them Sound of Music take your everything and that is the basics from where you started and you forgot because you became smarter when you were 12 years old correct when sometimes who do I go to I go to two types of people one is a very young child who has not been mind has not been contaminated by saying very old people really give M correct so such rest of the people are conditioned if I

do this what will this one think if I do this it's not a good thing to do these two say I think yeah not a mar this is what it is so the more you have people who speak from the heart to share things with you the better off you are in eming that and taking your life further so one of other things in my house huh which was encourage a lot my father used to laugh neighbors used to wake up in the morning people tell me that I laugh very loud I think I learned

it from him and any kind of EXP expression was not disallowed in my house a lot of things was shared you're doing nothing my father would but when there is no purpose and there's just sharing the atmosphere allows you to express yourself and I think if you bring back to creativity it is in whatever work your work my work or anybody's work is do not contain people never contain people I'm thinking can we be like that and that's when you see things blossoming around you yeah and and you will see everywhere bomb shaving company let's

go there or go and study something now doesn't say anything do what he's doing and one day that boy says and that becomes so I think there's a huge thing out there I remember my father and sometimes you make a mistake I was in classic or something and there was this um poetry recitation um competition for the school and my father thought he will be the champion of teaching me and he was Bloody good there used to be one famous K called mishan okaya vishan was how Mira was given that poison and what happened and

she finally drinks it all are synonyms [Music] of I came very disappointed my father was very disappointed what had happened was that Kavita went over the heads of my teachers also so my father said what he told me that time don't worry now we know the audience next time I got a goal because he got me to recite [Music] and that and was roaring and I came first there was creative encouragement father sounds like an insanely cool person so he said no you didn't go wrong I went wrong in giving you the wrong poetry now

I'll give the right one wow but this is so that was the atmosphere in the house so if we can create an atmosphere we say in ug what what what did what did he do for living you your father my father was in The Cooperative movement of Rajasthan okay so that's where I learned a lot also because he had to travel to small villages to meet the farmer give them loans or collect the earlier loans I used to sit in ep 5 6 years old that's where I also saw India that's where I used to

go there and there were no friends of mine The Village boys playing gilland so I played gilland with them they're playing Marvel or whatever I played with them I ate what they ate no complaint so everything was falling into place about respect to environment do you think children of today have have have we do you think we expose them we quickly change our buildings to and there is one they can't go out of the place okay you security can be an issue but they can't go out of the place and we Define their lives one

of my friends told me the other day he's also a founder and he would love to meet you so he said he has a 9-year-old boy and he sent his 9-year-old boy to his friend's house whose father also this guy's friend is an Uber on his own and you're big enough take an Uber and go and I'm tracking you I'm literally tracking you I know the driver name I spoken to the driver at the friend's father lost his mind and my my friend is telling me that and he told me this whole he did the

research on it that like in the last Generations the Locust of control of Parental supervision has gone from 20 km to 3 km to 500 M to zero and he's like that was the entertainment of thees and my father used to take me to see the ramela [Music] [Music] 510 for the most important thing was that I get to see beautiful now if if you're concerned about that 10 km then bring them so close that you put them on your shoulders that's my advice to your friend with theber they feel it it's so true because

the risk reward is so clear correct and that person is mostly supervised by staff correct what is more dangerous correct that that they don't realize and I seen like I used to fall so much sir like you won't believe parj [Laughter] that resilience the parental resilience on children which allowed you to have experience of course not careless it's not carelessness not carelessness but also believe get this much you can handle any more than this then you'll say BL hell now you're restricting me creativity is only when you push the envelope of resilience of the mind

and that Happ muscle building that is true so tell me about your your your professional career like you started with India then you went on to take a global role with like an an Institutional Giant in the space like oil but I see that you know a large part of who you are comes from a very raw indianness and Indian public sentiment could you apply some of those learnings to yeah that's what they saw in me it's not I knew what to do in Pittsburgh but what they saw is that he cares for the person

that you're reaching out he grows a team of people who thinks that way and that is the commonality that he will respect the audience he will groom people who respect their audiences who may not be known to be he will keep the team of people and keep them motivated and give them the space to say but I'll tell him that listen don't worry about what the British are doing just shake of Japan touch their hearts that's what took me there that's what they SW me that's why they asked me to how that experience fantastic I've

been in the company for a long time I knew everyone and the experience was excellent because it was based on when it was when I was asked to partner the CEO it was done with a whole lot of homework on me of saying uh very simply thank you than you thank you so much it it's not good also we will not try and be overbearing and tell you it's not good we are talking about allowing creativity so that they knew that I'm not going to get stationed anywhere they said you do this you do do

that three times a year you come to New York three times a come Year I'll come to India and three times a year we'll meet Midway in London such a beautiful way of looking that I will not come in his way so it was a very well thought out thing so when my secretary read out the email to me I was in go that time I said read it out whatever it is she read it out so after that I said so ailia what do you think she laughed and said now do you have an

option so that covered everything that um I was about and everything that I was not about it was great experience great company and do you think like the more human beings change whether it's with time or whether with geography the more they remain the same like the core of a human being whether it's someone in Nairobi or Mumbai or London is the same but same is the same and that's what we respect them for we on the world creative Council today we have some 30 OD people and somebody is doing something for Honduras somebody doing

something for South Africa somebody's doing something for Mumbai the respect is that my partner from wherever in the world understands his or her audience and is a wonderful human being that the moment you put in the wonderful human being then I think in every field I'm talking about communication any field a railway engine driver the way he treats his group of people makes his team better Al I'm amazed by your hold on language both English and Hindi are the most the more and just before this when I was talking to an we had a long

discussion on how language shapes human emotion sometimes we aume that language is an expression of human emotion but language also plays a reverse role that the more words there are the more emotions you're able to feel in distill do you feel like a global exposure was was was eye opening that way for you in terms of different languages different cultures different kind of clients advertising different but exposure more regular exposure examples from that because a lot of this like I I'm very like for example personally I I think Bombay shaming company can be a global

business but I'm always scared because I feel I don't understand the consumer in the US or in Europe or whatever you must reverse it okay and say okay why do these people love this work that my people in loil India do so if you take the ficol bus everyone going in that du du in and nobody's falling off in the end you see that little holding at the back because they get it they get it and say that yes they picked it up from life and Ed it so beautifully and thought of it now they

say they understand by saying you know if um I'm in Venice and I put 50 people on that boat it'll be the same thing yeah so beyond language sometimes see languages are difficult to U Know very closely when you're dealing with so many of them but emotion you can always emotion binds you that is true and it's consistent emotion is yeah human being is a human being you whether you are a father of a child in India or you are a father of a child in on munus nothing changes nothing changes even being in I

speak at places I say yeah listen why is it that you when you sit in this chair your voice becomes veryone because there's a designation to the chair why did you right when you standing so when you go home I have told clients when you go home and you meet your wife you say hello sweetheart how are you doing yeah is so true that is so true that is so true about advertising and marketing as a broad function sir I think a lot of people today um I I I discuss Talent fols with all kinds

of founder like the one before and in general industrially I spoke to I'll tell you I don't know whether you met this gentleman his name is Kapil Chopra he was the president of the oo hotels like joined as a management training hotel management training grew up the ranks spectacular guys like in the hospitality industry is like a thought leader and working for a great company and then he he resigned at at a young age in his 40s and then started two companies what was easy D the other sports car hotels and they have both done

very well so entrepreneur operator and um uh he was he always speaks about transformative experiences do things which kind of last the the the journey and that's what he talks about when he recruits people today in his companies key he he said that you know when when he applied for hotel management there were 40,000 people who used to give the exam today the are only 7,000 people so the the talent pool is now diminishing which is surprising because hospitality is booming but Talent is diminishing which is very dangerous and I don't know why the industry

is kind of they'll probably fix it but then how do you how do you see Talent pools in advertising and in the marketing industry do you see them becoming un dimensional shrinking expanding do people more people want to become come into this field how exciting is it today given influencers and content field field has changed in the sense that uh you're still doing the same job but he got 10 names now you say okay I'm in digital what are you doing in digital you still communicating to people through a different form I am into x

what are you doing I'm trying to reach people industry is not shrunk his definitions have become proliferate but has it become sharper or has become has it lost all depends on how each individual takes it it is if you are smart enough to say my purpose still the same but I'm reaching you through this in know order to make a difference to your life then still the same if you become then you lost then you're right so I think mosis between the teams or between individuals can you build expertise in silos in the in the

creative world I always wondered this for examp H classical music there is a art form called drupad I know is very complicated difficult it is almost shrinked to very few practitioners now in the world but because it is so sharp and osmosis is so low that we've lost the art form almost does that happen with with in the creative world of advertising and marketing where you lose the kind of stuff that you were talking about no not really people may lose interest like for instance today the good old art person who who drew that picture

don't I doubt it I doubt it that is um that is that that is the scene that we have to asks I don't think he goes home and says that that is the thing the purpose of the purpose of your work is something that in the creative world is so deeply embodied the way you talk about F call it's like it's almost seems Mission oriented for you to have built out all it is and sometimes when you Silo the work I don't know whether there is a criting example that we have so you can go

to elf grow School of fast bowling X can go here's batting Academy of Learning the purpose of The Silo is to give you expertise so that you can contribute to a match which is a team can you live as silos no why why do there's um everyone has had many companies today um the philosophy of is one oil correct one form right yeah um whole lot of companies are now about one yeah it's it's feeling that they've learned it by experiencing it say one form one language one office right so we had 220 offices it's

amazing that after 9 years after leaving M I still call it V [Laughter] but we had only one supplier of curtains only one supplier of those remotes that being projected up and down I hate that but it was it their effort to like pick your feel when you in M the office it could be in Rome or Mumbai or uh I I'm a different thinker on that just say that free seating huh of office is a free City with space softb who space how can you do free sitting if you then you are playing with

his emotions and anybody who's playing at low emotions will not give you great work never that's not life that is so that it is that person's home away from from home that much yeah for that you that is true I don't buy that that is true that is true that is true tell me sir like uh you've had clients in the you know of course the brand space you worked with political organization you worked with you know media what have like what have they taught you who has been your let's say top three favorite people

to people not is it can only be people you can find a fantastic politician you can find a fantastic media person you can find anyone so who who have you enjoyed working with who made your creative Juices Flow the way they did who kind of stimulated the for a career which is 42 years long there are a whole lot of people sometimes they could be well be the guy when working alone at 2:00 at night you got something to deliver and when one guy stays back who gives you chai and then when you're leaving you

say and this happened to me now doesn't have a designation he was a CH of the office correct but he made an impact on so impact can come from anyone it's not one individual it it comes from anybody it can come from as I said thear of the office it can come from a secretary in the office it can come from your boss can come from anyone as as long as you appreciate the human being because craft [Music] or correct like what will I say about those people I remember there was a many years two

decades back it was woman's day and four boys came to me were all [Music] and we will cook for all the women in the office on the Terrace it's women's day what do you tell them I not forget it for the rest of my life D it worked your mind like from a mental you remember it so many later women when they not forget for their lives women will not forget for the rest of their life somebody thought of this on women this life is about these little things these human emotions these gestures but it

takes a lot it seems like a little thing but in that moment right it's about that the thought and then executing and then going and then everyone chips in nobody's stealing their idea everyone saying okay I'll help you in your idea now that's what spreads like magic how do you think the industry is changings are like I do you think people are becoming more like a lot of like a lot of Industries especially given IPO markets and given short memory cycles of people people feel that leadership CEOs Etc have become more shortsighted and myopic long-term

thinking is lesser more impatient around outcomes do you think that is happening with the advertising communication world as well people are a lot more heing now virality this that like what's the next big [Music] for that is true there is to see longterm is about happiness and and consistency of growing a business the shortterm things are that's um the why do in America Quarters on but some the ones who stick stick for long so those are the ones who build the brand these are the ones who wanted to say okay like startups true joke about

this with my sister m that is true that is true that is true that is again comes back number of things we discussed today so longterm with people and have the intellectual humility to constantly absorb for me the takeway and they're so simple that's and nobody is saying that don't excel in your results also excel in your results excel in your results in a fashion that you say aha I can do it again next year oh now five of us can do it so we can do more of it r or startups is not my

of look looking at life nor is it the world's way of looking at life I think M the founder of cultfit and MRA he told me interesting thing look at a company that survived for 30 years look at a company that survived for 20 years 92% of the value creation happened in the second decade versus 8% in the first for example Amazon is nearing 30th year Google is nearing as 30th year almost 80% of the value creation is in the third decade 15% in the second decade 5% in the first to my my investors are

Colgate company recit almost compan you look at you really proor decades cbury spoke about Decades of work right there's no way you can build a brand in will be true true mat 100 years old H India itself is 1928 really and continuous like very incest but a lot of very acquisitive friendly right like a lot of mergers people like acquire shops very quickly and kind of get them in like is that is that a Hallmark of of service in business in general is it I still don't know how successful they are see what I was

telling about oil 1928 was a trading company which did some ads it was DJ k then it was later on bought by somebody who's called Benson's overseas marketing and advertising Services bass okay so when s then it became s Benson okay then it became then Benson got out then became and today is so it was not about MERS it was about Oran similar kind of a thing that you bought because and then and in between they must have bought direct marketing company PR Company that is buy skills you buy skills or you buy Partners that's

that is true I think in the service world but giving the culture intact I think is something which lots of companies would claim that but from what I hear from people who left also form their own companies also there is in advertising business it is probably the most beautiful culture that David oil started and the rest of the people after him built on that which is what amazing culture amazing culture define it like in a few sentences if you can what is it about culture is such a easy thing to talk about so difficult to

articulate I think the culture out there is a people's culture okay I'll tell you some examples also that Russian dolls when what you used to give this Russian dolls to all new guys and what used to say is that always hire people who are bigger than yourself otherwise we'll become a company of dwarfs and we want to be a company of giants easier said than done it's so hard to do but if you look at that culture if you think like that then you treat people with that respect then you look at people with that

generosity and a whole lot of things he wrote I I think the culture is about people people and treating the other guy better than you are that is the best way def find in the culture and you think it's it percolates across offices across hierarchies across teams nothing would be 100% successful but best effort but hell of a lot is true some fell out some didn't like it all that will happen is we're talking about O's culture so one is of course a culture of people and building a company of Giants and need you see

that consistently play out in yes in like in the way you recruited inductions clean t teamwork delivery Etc the best way of judging that is the number of years people stayed that's true whether it's in New York whether it's in India anywhere the number of people who stayed um they me to somebody 20 years of service I think yes one measure there the other thing I was telling you earlier we are a little out of context but yes it suits because me and my predecessor Anan Kapoor as the chairman of the company we used to

say we measure our success on the basis of the levels of laughter in the corridor if that is not culture not about 10% grow this come from your father also right like he he wanted you to express made a home where people had a singer you had like cricketer and happy home is Success yeah this was what we used to actually say we W kamla Mills that time that we judge our sucess on the basis of the levels of laughter in the corridor that's amazing that is amazing and how do you spend your time today

sir like what what what keeps you busy you seem to be full of energy and you know out and about uh do you uh do you do you spend a lot more time on with the younger people mentoring them or you like like picking up project which are more open-ended how do you spend what gives you Joy today now chatting with them also is again without agenda drift taking that's nice andtime you let them talk and you Lear you so much to learn from them you may not be able to learn it fully to implement

it yourself but you learn to appreciate it instead of saying Compu are useless I know that's true that happen a lot people reject technology I've started doing it like all these kids are so much younger than me I feel like I've like almost dinosaur but yeah you're right I think this being being being there is important so before we let you go people who are watching this are potentially entrepreneurs business Builders someone who wants to get into building a brand they're probably younger most of our audiences are sub 25 one word of advice to them

to kind of give them the courage to go and build something and what they should do like what they should do to make sure that they maximize their chance of success I'll tell you a story you learn from that more than a sentence I'll give you there is a league in Bombay cricket league called Kanga League M I know K league has played during the monsoon and it's played on very very wet wickets and very comparative and in that I've seen played a match against sasar also was it long time back you going to bat

don't think too much about the wicket otherwise you'll be half out before you before you start batting so to the youngsters I'm saying if you feel like batting bat don't be scared there's nothing else I can say don't be scared thank you so much sir thank you so much it's been such a pleasure and thank you for being generous with your time your insights your I enjoyed it thank you so much thank you thank you so much thank you so much e