HEATED Trinity Debate Has MIRACULOUS Turn Of Events | Sam Shamoun

so people know what you believe about the godhead express your view my view of the godhead is the father in creation incarnate in Jesus as the expressed person and the Holy Spirit as the sanctification of the Saints yeah that didn't tell us exactly what you believe about the holy spirit so the holy spirit is not a distinct person from the father right the holy spirit is not a person no and he's not distinct from the father so what is he in relation to the father he is a work Jesus is what again the Incarnation of

God the father so he's basically the father in human flesh right correct 1 Timothy 3:16 yeah that do say that's God the father and you're going with the King James I understand I know your arguments believe me you can throw verses but it's not going to prove your case so no you said it doesn't say that it doesn't say that no it doesn't say the father was manifest In the Flesh it says God was manifest In the Flesh you're misreading it so God it's not the father because God is not limited to the father oh

no I didn't say that I said it's God not the father don't attack straman so you're starting already with the fine fine fine let me see if you understand articulate the Trinity see if you understand what does the Trinity teach I see that's where you lost me because I don't Believe In Like A doctrine of the Trinity no I didn't ask what you believe I can articulate your faith even though I believe it's okay so can I ask you a question then if you want to ask me how does the Trinity so where is the

word Trinity in the Bible where is the word modalism Oneness I I never said I never said I was I never said modalism I never said to ask me these stupid questions is like me asking you show me the word bible in your King James Bible don't ask stupid don't make a stupid objections let's come back show me where Jesus says I am the father and those exact words I am the father and those exact words you see wait wait wait wait wait wait he didn't say it in those exact words but they wait listen

then stop using arguments inconsistently where I'm going to bury you don't ask me to show you the word Trinity CU that's not the argument the argument is does the bible teach the doctrine of the Trinity so I asked you do you even know what the Trinity is I don't ask if you believed it because I don't believe your doctrine of demons of scripture but I can at least articulate your position what is the Trinity it's um the idea that there's one God in three persons father Son and Holy Ghost so now if you know that

you know that according to to the Trinity we believe you deny it that each person is called God so when you quote a passage that says God was manifest In the Flesh instead of assuming your view that the father alone is God that doesn't say the father became flesh you have to now prove that God there must necessarily be the father you understand the argument now I do so let's not attack strong men misrepresent because you said you're here to have a serious discussion not argue like a Kindergarten kid because I've debated one this let's

take it to a higher level now what passage do you use to show Jesus is the father in the flesh quote it for me I use 1 Timothy 3:16 doesn't prove your case so give me something else why why would you say that though because in the scriptures you find two distinct persons both called God or in Greek Theos you don't believe they're distinct persons but still there's a distinction John 1:1 just to name one example execute that for me John 1:1 uh in the beginning the um the word was with God and the Word

was God so the word was with God yeah that was logos though right the word logos so that's mean logus doesn't always mean thought you're wrong well you said it doesn't always mean thought so it does mean thought no not there because the word with God pro as used by John means two distinct entities in Intimate communion the same phrase with God is used in John 16:28 and John 133 we'll get there is the word the same God he's with he's with God so when it says he's God is he the same God he's with

yes so he's with God and he's with himself because he's the same God he's with amen yeah and you're amening your stupidity cuz that's not what the text says said it said the word it said the word was with God and the Word was God pro and then it says hos in the Greek there's a difference there's a distinction when it says he's with ton that means he's with a specific definite particular person but then when it says K Theos andos and God was the word there the word God is what we call a qualitative

noun a descriptive noun it's talking about his nature okay so that means he's not the god he's with he's with someone called God and he's God in nature that's what actually John want is saying okay so that makes sense to me also because if that that that makes you know admit right you said he is in the nature of God but he's he's with God right yeah so but you understand what that means or you didn't understand the point no I did that means the word God is used in two different senses for two distinct

entities proving the point I made that just because you quote a verse that says God appeared in the flesh that doesn't necessarily mean the Father which part of that you didn't get okay I can see that that's fine so can you now give me a verse where it says the father became flesh so when Philip asked him show us the father I'm glad you quoted that read John 14 7-1 to see that actually doesn't prove your case if you have known me you shall have known my father also and from hence forth ye know him

and have seen him keep reading Phil sayith unto Lord show us the father and it sufficeth us Jesus saith unto him I have been so long with you and yet hath thou not known me Philip he ha seen me ha seen the father and how say thou show us the father so he is the person of the father you stop don't stop read believest thou that I am in the I am in the father and the father in me the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself right but the father that

dwelleth in me yes he doth The Works see this is your burial because he didn't say believeth thou not I am the father and the father is me the father's in me I'm in the father he wouldn't say that because he's in the flesh Jesus also says he's in us the spirit is in us God is in US according to your logic that means I am the godhead don't butcher Jesus's words because in that same passage Now read John 1420 to 21 at the day ye shall know that I am in the father and ye

in me and I in you I am in the father I'm in you you're in me so if the father being in Jesus makes him the father then Jesus being in me and you that makes me Jesus according to your logic no but we are the body of Christ so we have that same that's not what I asked you but that's the same thing we can claim that same so you say to everyone I am Jesus Christ and God the Father sayth no no no no no what I'm going to say to that is Paul

also says that we're the body of Christ can the eyes say to the hand that they have no need of thee irrelevant to the point how is that still doesn't make Paul Jesus you can't I didn't say Paul ofes I said collectively we make up the understand my question you're not gonna let me explain myself then I can't because you're not understanding my point Galatians 220 read it I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live yet not not I but Christ liveth in me and the life that which I now liveth in the flesh I

live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me who lives in Paul the individual Christ so understand your logic so that then you can respond cuz you're not responding to my objection if the father being in Jesus makes him the father then Jesus being in Paul would make him Jesus your argument is pathetic no no can you give me another argum right so are we in the image of God so what what does that mean what is your take on let us make man in our image what

do you think was happening that's the Trinity that's a passage that's your nightmare and a blessing for me but but then okay so on let's take that scripture and then let's take where it says the Lord said unto my Lord right what about it it's basically saying the same thing it's it's the father talking to himself in the dispensation as the he's not talking to himself yes what wait wait wait God doesn't talk to himself that's what you're telling me no he's not talking to himself he said because there was no body he swore by

himself you want me to go to Genesis one and use that to bury you to show it's not God speaking to himself as an individual person you think it was another person there with him have you yes have you read Genesis 126 yes the man that's in God's image how many persons is he what do you mean how many persons is he see you haven't read it this why you was my time no go back to Genesis 126 read that the man that was created in image of God was male and female it was them

right in fact let me test your Bible knowledge the I what asking sometimes hold on if you're patient I'll show you what I'm asking because you went to Genesis one you ran to it so I'm bearing you in Genesis 1 the name Adam that name was given to who exactly at creation the male go to Genesis 5: 1 and two see you don't know the Bible brother because this is going to be your burial now you quoted Genesis 1 now I'm going to use Genesis one to bury you friend lovingly hope you listen listen show

me this is the book of the generations of Adam in the day of that God created man in the likeness of God made he him male and Fe this doesn't prove your point read verse two male and female created he them and blessed them and called their name Adam in the created Adam so the was called Adam oh my good yo this is not a on you just got busted you just said a couple of minutes earlier no the name Adam is for the male it is now admit you were wrong and you are an

ignoramus the name Adam right given to who the male right no read to who did he call Adam okay he called the male and the female Adam the reason the reason why he called the male and the female Adam is because Adam is the father of all people so that it's his his genealogy yes it does instead of being humble saying look I'm in ignorance I was wrong this is not going to BU you so I'm going to ask you the question again the Adam that God created in His image male and female right right

so now we got it now you're being honest so I want everyone hear now he admits male mean were Adam was describe to both male and female that's talking about all you admit they're both in His image right yes that's true yes image IM you now see how that buried you just like Adam is more than one person yet one Adam The God Who made Adam plural is more than one person but one God that's your burial that's why speaking in the plural but you wouldn't get it so so my God is multiple gods is

Adam multiple Adams or one Adam all right so let me just ask this question I'm answer question answer that is Adam dancing you're dancing around my question you're dancing around my question I'm answering your question with a question like Jesus did is Adam multiple atoms or one Adam he is multiple atoms because he multip no isn't Genesis 224 says they're one flesh and they're both called Adam so is Adam multiple Adams or one Adam he's one Adam yes that's what I'm saying okay so you just buried yourself again why would God need to be multiple

gods if he's more than one person he can be more than one person and still one God like the Adam is more than one person one Adam your logic so all right so then you're just ascribing basically titles to God then so these persons are things that he's done that are that what can you show me where Jesus is the father you're going on tangents get back to show me where Jesus no seriously so is God one God in three distinctive persons or is he one God God is one God and three three distinct Eternal

persons like Adam is one Adam but he's more than one person you use Genesis 120 I didn't quote Genesis 120 you did so I'm using it against you so we have still so what I believe is that Jesus is the father because you just got shut down no no no I didn't say I never said Jesus was the father I never said that what I have is this did you not say Jesus is the Incarnation of the father that means when Jesus was on Earth that's the father as a man in the flesh yeah as

a man in the flesh okay can you show me where the Bible says Jesus is the father in like scripture that I showed you though and then do you have anything else where did they want to pick up stones to Stone him because he made himself God you mean in John 8:56 to 59 yeah that's not gonna help your case either but that's you can you read John 8:16 to19 also written in your law that the testimony of the men is true I am one that bear witness of myself and the father that sent me

beareth witness of me how many men does it require for the law to be fulfilled two so it says two men right yes so and he says I'm one man and my father's the other man correct well not man Spirit no he said men because the word anthropos can be used generically for persons so so now father is a man now did I say it or did Jesus say it read the words and if I judge my judgment is true for I am not alone but I and the father that sent me it is also

written in your law that the testimony of two men men right who are the two men now Jesus will tell you go ahead I am one that bear witness of myself right okay and the father that sent me beareth witness okay so he said Your Law requires two men I am one and the father's the other because if you are listening not pretending you're listening the word man can have a broader meaning meaning person stop playing games with me so if the father and the son are two men two persons that buries you because according

to you they're not two persons it's one person who became flesh explain that for me according to you Jesus is not a distinct person from the father Jesus is the human incarnation of the father so it's one person in the flesh but Jesus said no I am one person one man my father is the second person second man so we two men satisfy the demand of the law explain that light of your heresy why so why can't he just be speaking as a human man under the under the because according wait let me finish why

can't he be speaking as a human man under under his own Spiritual Authority because to you I'm answering you that person that's animating that body is the father so it's not two men it's one person one man it's like me going before the judge and saying judge you require two witnesses well I as a husband am one witness and I as a brother am the second witness so the Brother Sam and the husband Sam that's two witnesses see that's your logic well that's that's what I get yeah oh so you feel like like God I

want everyone to hear this so God what God did was he's saying hey even though I'm one person the man me is testifying and the spirit me is testifying so even though it's one person but because I'm testifying in two different modes that's two men that's deceit that's not that's the law requires more than one person didn't the law say he's one so it's not deceit no the law says that the word one can apply to multiple persons like genesis 2:24 where it says for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and

cling to his wife and the two shall become one flesh so the word one does encompass more than one person so here here oh Israel the Lord thy God is one is the same one the word one does not mean single person part even in that scripture hereo Israel the yes because in the penud that same Moses shows God is there the angel of the Lord is there and the spirit is there and the angel distinct from God is God Exodus 23 20-23 but before we go there before I use that against you God cannot

lie God is faithful when he appeals to the law and shows he's fulfilling it he's not lying so when he says the law that I gave you requires two persons to testify I'm going to then satisfy my own demands I'm going to give you two persons father is one person I am the second person but according to you that's a lie because it's not two persons it's one person in two different modes anyway so how is he God then because he is God in nature one with his father just like Eve is Adam in nature

one with Adam so he's God in nature one with is Eve Adam in nature I'll ponder that so how many Thrones is in heaven then how many ents of that Throne there's one throne but how many sit on it okay so it's one throne but three sit on how many Revelation 221 it's only two it's only two no there's also the spirit that proceeds from the throne yeah it proceeds you said sit if the spirit is proceeding from the throne that means it's there on the throne unless you think it's beneath the throne I don't

know that's why I said I just said two two okay no Revelation 221 and John 15:26 and he showed me a pure River of Water of Life clear as Crystal proceeding out the Throne of God and the lamb who's sitting on the throne that's verse one God and and the lamb right the lamb yeah and what is that rivers of living water that comes from the throne yeah that's that's a picture of the spirit I know that yeah because that's John 738 39 right yeah now go to John 15:26 oh wow turn right to it

wow yep because the Lord's trying to open your heart man and the comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the father even the spirit of Truth which proceeded from the father he shall testify of me is the father in The Throne yes and the spirit proceeds from the father so if he comes out of the father and if the father's on the throne the spirit is come out coming out of where the throne I guess yeah so did you now see why I said there are three three yes they're not the because

I'm going to prove to you they're not the same person because now go to Revelation 3:21 to him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne even as I also overcame and I'm sat down with my father in his throne yeah so when I sit with Jesus on his throne does that make me the same person as Jesus but but he said he was one with exactly like we are one with one another but doesn't make us the same person go to John 161 12-13 I have yet many things to say

unto you but ye cannot hear them yet well bear them yet how be it when he the spirit of Truth is come he will guide you into all truth Truth for he shall not speak of himself but whosoever he shall whom whatsoever he shall hear that shall he speak and he will show you things to come now 13 says he will not speak on his own he'll only speak what he hears hears from whom Jesus but I thought the holy spirit is not a person how does a non-person hear anything and say anything I mean

yeah I mean exactly I never looked at it that way though yeah well hopefully now never looked at it like okay there like it's a it's an entity being spoken to that means you're wrong you need to repent and accept the Trinity but there's only one God though and three distinct the god that we worship is only one but that doesn't mean he has to be one person the one God who's infinitely greater than creation is one God but he's so Majestic he exists eternally as three persons who love one another and fellowship with one

another they're not the same person but they're not different gods that's the teaching of the Bible unless you want to make God limited like you well you can only be one person and one being no God says I'm unlike you don't compare me to you my thoughts are higher than yours my ways are higher than yours so the one God is unlike creation his existence will be much greater than ours so he's one God and that one God eternally his father son holy spirit let me share another passage where the spirit speaks and he's God

who speaks 2 Samuel 23: 1-3 now these be the last words of David David the son of Jesse said that said said in the who was raised up on high the anointed of God of Jacob and the sweet psalmist of Israel said the spirit of the Lord spake by me and his words was in my tongue so the spirit speaks again yeah and David is now speaking and writing the words that the spirit gave him yeah but now notice when the spirit speak who speaks we read two again read two again and then three the

spirit of the Lord spake by me and his word was in my tongue the god of okay the god of Israel said the rock of Israel spake to me wait so hold on you confus me David said the spirit of God the Lord spoke to me but now he says it's the god of Israel speaking that makes sense though it does make sense because the spirit is God right who speaks and yet he's one with God the father but he's not God the father right I'm gonna look into this this is really good Sam this

was really really good Sam no I appreciate I don't mind objections if they're sincere someone's coming hosle now bring your objections next time say well here here arguments against the Trinity let me know and God willing I'll bring you on on and I'll be more than happy to show you these arguments are pathetic they've been answered in fact if you go to my YouTube channel just put in Trinity you're going to see dozens of videos responding and defending and my blog dozens of Articles so but you come up and say hey Sam I got some

objections in Trinity I'll be here to serve you brother