Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]

i know people are going to be asking why is the smartest man in the world living on a farm in the middle of missouri [Music] welcome to my extremely ethereal and trippy new set i feel as though i am floating in a cloud here in this all-white venue and perhaps that is fitting for this first interview in a series of much longer much more in-depth interviews i'm so excited that my first guest is christopher langan the smartest man in the world i do not say that as a subjective statement or to flatter chris i mean

that in as technical a way as possible chris has one of if not the highest iq ever recorded somewhere between 100 90 195 and 210 and chris is not here by way of some fancy distinguished professorship at such and such brand name university nor did chris just get off of his private yacht out of the south of france and come here to leave his billion dollar company chris came here from a farm in missouri after a career as a bouncer at bars around new york chris thank you very much for coming on thank you for

inviting me michael i first stumbled onto you when i was 18 years old freshman in college and listen i barely got out of high school math i barely got out of calculus so i got out of high school myself that's a good point but i said this guy he's saying things that are really really interesting and so i want to learn more i've wanted to talk to you ever since then i know that before we get into metaphysics the existence of god free will politics culture and everything in between i know people are going to

be asking why is the smartest man in the world why is he not just buying and selling all of us all the time why is it why is he living on a farm in the middle of missouri well that's a good question and it's that i was never actually interested in money when i was a when i was a kid we my brothers and i my family we were not exactly the richest folks in town we seldom had enough money to buy you know food or clothes and so i sort of immersed myself in in

books and reading and decided that what i wanted to do was pursue knowledge it costs you nothing to pursue knowledge really i provided you you can sustain yourself while you're in pursuit of it so that's what i did i simply focused myself on i want to know the truth about reality i want to know you know what kind of world it is that i'm living in and that's what i that's what i went for now as far as the making money is concerned one thing that i found out is that there are certain ingredients uh

certain certain advantages that you need in order to become rich of course it helps to be born with money that's the use also that's the easiest way and it helps to have a lot of connections yeah okay the right kind of connections and it helps not to alienate the people who have all the money because then they'll exclude you and cancel you you know that's what they do that's what canceled culture is basically people are being frozen out of the economy okay and i found myself getting frozen out of the economy that way from an

early age i mean i was you know i tried to go to college but uh ran into a couple of problems personnel problems on the faculties of the colleges in question and that stopped me you know that basically when you get you know when you you you can't get a college education you are canceled economically presumably though you you know you show up to college even though you've got a tough upbringing and you know not not any real advantages in terms of family or society but you're obviously you've got a higher iq than anybody in

the room you're obviously extremely smart you're extremely self-educated so you get into college it should be a total breeze for you well it was a total breeze for me too much of a breeze for me you know you ask the wrong kinds of questions of people who are full of themselves and think they have all the answers you know like you know in a calculus class you know say well you know why don't you explain exactly how what an infinite decimal interval is and how you can traverse from one end to the other and you

know they'll look at you as though you've got two heads i ask that all the time i ask my waiters i yeah well i got a very poor reaction out of that there was a there was a math instructor in an albert license ring i think who decided that i must be absolutely brain dead i mean i went and went into his office you know this guy was a very strange character he's about six and a half feet tall he'd come into class you know everybody would be waiting there for him he'd make a late

entrance you know be waiting for 10-15 minutes he'd walk in right with a this great big stack of mimeograph sheets and then he'd hand out you know walk around the room methodically handing out these sheets to all of the students and everybody would have a sheet in front of them then he'd walk up to the room and and symbol for symbol everything that was written on the sheets would appear on the blackboard then he'd turn around and walk out now finally i i you know i thought what you know i was having a hard time

with this there were certain things that i you know didn't quite understand how he was why he was doing them the way he was so i kept on trying to track him down to his office he was never in his office you know i would wait in the hall for you know hours and hours for this guy i never showed up finally i caught him in his office and i said hi professor licen ring can i come in well i'm really kind of busy right now and i well yeah i i just wanted to ask

you one question you know how why do you do this why are you taking a set theoretic approach to the calculus like this you know i mean they don't seem to be compatible you know on the one hand you know the calculus deals with change whereas sets are static things why are you state why are you taking this particular approach to it and he looks at me and he's you know asperger's victim right yeah and he looks at me looks down his thing he says well you know some people just don't have the mental firepower

to be mathematicians well what was i supposed to do hit the guy i wanted it right right but he says something that's sort of pathetic almost to say but it is it is pathetic but it basically told me a lot about how he sees the world how he sees other people i don't want to take a course from a guy like that yeah you know and it offended me because i was you know i've been a poor kid i just came off a ranch i've been working all summer punching cows you know and uh and

there i was you know i met all these there was a bunch of hippies in there right basically new york hippies uh no i won't call them hippies these are basically affluent kids from new york the place where i went was basically that was the client that was the clientele that was a student body right and they all couldn't you know they were constantly talking asking questions bright for the most part but i felt like a fish out of water right it was culture shock for me yeah you know what is this you know i'm

i'm used to you know being around a bunch of uh you know hay seeds yeah cowboys you know punching cows you know going to the you know bar at night or whatever drinking beer and uh there was nothing like that these kids are sitting around smoking pot you know doing drugs you know psychedelics now just to clarify when he says not everyone has the power to be a mathematician was was this an admission of his own failure to explain his process he's calling you stupid yes wow he was claiming that i didn't have the intellectual

firepower to be a mathematician or at least that's the way i interpret it yeah and because i was used to being slighted in that way i mean you know i kind of grew up in a rough and tumble if people feel intellectually threatened by you you get a lot of this kind of thing so i i assumed that that's what was happening and i've never seen never heard anything after that that would lead me to believe anything different so so you leave college presumably you're much more intelligent than anyone that you're going to meet on

the faculty or in the students so you leave college what is it about being a bar bouncer what what is it about that that physical activity because presumably even without a college degree you could have done some middling paper pushing job and it probably wouldn't have been very lucrative or fulfilling for you but presumably you could have done something like that instead of a tough physical potentially dangerous job like you're being a bouncer could have but there are certain there are certain problems that you know i can't for example when i was in new york

i got a job in a grommet factory okay it was stimson gromits you know you had grumman aircraft there you know they got military defense contracts i think they were working on f-16s at one point and then there's a you know there was simpson grommets which produced these aircraft rivets for these airplanes and i had this machine and man the the sound the noise from this machine wham wham wham no hearing protection no nothing was issued to anybody yeah and i started you know like losing my hearing and and so forth and i figured well

i can't stand this anymore i got to get out of here so i was about to leave but i had a girlfriend and she said no i want you to stay so i figured okay let me see if i can get out of the kind of job so i took the civil service exam and was offered a job by the irs and that of course was a moral dilemma yeah that's what i had worse than exactly exactly how awful do i want to be as a person you know and i decided that i needed to

go home anyway yeah so i went back to montana at that point um but basically then what i found out well i went back to new york when i was in my late 20s that's when i started doing the bar bouncing thing right but and i wasn't making that much money i was working for forty dollars a night coming out of there bloody you know with rip shirts ripped off my back you couldn't i couldn't even pay for the shirts you know right that i was making so i figured okay what i'll do is i'll

take the civil service exam again now this is i don't want to sound insensitive but at that point in new york there was a a protocol whereby you take the civil service exam and if you are a minority if you are non-white you get 30 extra points yeah but this there's nothing insensitive this is just a fact i mean it's the fact of our laws of fact they've been doing it for a long time it's called affirmative action of course and uh when that happens you know and i'm applying to be say a police officer

right and uh all of these other guys these non-white guys are you know looking also to be police officers you learn that there's a a line of 3 000 guys in front of you this is so then you give up your idea of being a police officer and you give up your idea of ever succeeding getting a job on the basis of a civil service exam now they do have you know white police officers in new york but almost all those guys are connected they've got some kind of uncle or acquaintance or somebody who's on

the police force that will put in a good a good word for them i didn't have anybody like that and merit made no difference whatsoever this is not a meritocracy we live in yeah you can take any number of these tests and outscore everybody else and get nothing and nowhere and it's especially true of civil service it's it's true in a lot of fields in the economy but especially in civil service that has been a pronounced issue for a long time so presumably during all this time though you're not just saying as many people do

when they leave college whether they graduate or not they say okay well that's it i'm never reading a book again i'm done with all that book learning something tells me that's not not your mindset even as you're doing these physical jobs it certainly was and i would i would like go to library sales and found a little bookstore you know that had some academic books in it and just get whatever i could and i always had to uh i had to basically read whatever i found i couldn't afford to order a book you know i

mean even back then books were expensive so i couldn't go to a bookstore and pay full price for a book so i was constantly buying used books which were you know when they were textbooks they were used and therefore outmoded you know the field advances the book stays the same but nevertheless you know it's got some of the stuff that i need in it then i can i can absorb that so that's what i did yeah just basically worked on my uh you know on my own ideas trying to apply what i read in these

books was there any field that attracted you in particular i mentioned that i don't have anything past high school math and even that it was pretty sketchy on math physics philosophy theology well now when i was uh 14 i was working on a ranch in wilson montana which is just across the bridges from bozeman i don't know if you're familiar with boseman but anyway i was uh you know working as a as punching cow stacking hay irrigating on this ranch and uh and i took two books with me and one of them was a book

by by albert einstein on the theory of relativity and the other one was a book by bertrand russell okay and i i would read these books i was living in a covered wagon they call it a sheep wagon these days but literally literally i'm not kidding i mean that's what it was you know kerosene lamp in a in a sheep wagon out in the middle of a field of reading bertrand russell and alberto reading bertrand wrestling albert einstein and it occurred to me these two things really need to be put together and then you know

once i decided that i started putting them together and then i found out about kurt gerdell and the undecidability theorem and and yes absolutely okay you see because reality isn't just geometric which is what einstein thought it was nor is it just linguistic it's a blend of the two right russell saw it as being linguistic einstein saw it as being geometric okay so i decided that reality must be logical geometric putting the two of them together and of course then i realized well i've got to put together a theory construct a theory in which reality

is actually logical geometric and so that's where the ctmu came from and the ctmu is the cognitive theoretic model of the cognitive theoretic model of the universe this is your theory of everything my theory of everything and it's all in the name if you take a good close look at that you've got cognitive theory and of course you know a theory is a kind of language theoretic language okay then you've got cognitive theoretic model you've got a model and then you've got universe you've got a language you've got a universe and then the model is

the mapping between them ctmu says those are all the same thing all of those terms all of those those uh those properties are distributed everywhere over reality reality can have only one structure when once you realize that and you implement it in theoretical form so then the question i asked you is kind of a stupid question because i said which field was it that attracted you and your answer is yes [Laughter] well i would have to say it would have to be logic and language and then physics and mathematics okay so those are the those

are the fields and that's what i thought i was conveying but yes apparently i need to spell it out you do no you do because but this is so important that you're not just talking about this siloed aspect of thought or this you know philosophy over here language over here math over here physics over here but you're presenting something that is universal correct correct absolute and universal to get the absolute invariance the absolute truths of reality you know things that are true everywhere you go no matter you know at what time you exist or in

what place you exist it's the same so for those of us who have an iq that's a little bit lower than yours i'm i'll admit it i with no false modesty and no uh undue confidence well iq is not the last word in intelligence by any means iq is where you focus you can focus marshall all your intellectual energy and focus it very tightly on one item that you've been presented with okay there's tests contain items and you're focusing on each one of those items you're not seeing anything else okay and that's what iq is

but in addition to that depth and that focus there is also aperture think of the mind as a kind of camera okay what a lot of high iq people have a lot of difficulty doing is widening their mental aperture you've got to be flexible you've got to be able to widen and narrow that aperture at will as you're doing the depth perception too so you've got the focus depth of focus the magnification as it were yeah plus the aperture and most people you know most high iq people they have the magnification but they don't have

the aperture so then from the perspective simultaneously i suppose both of depth and breadth here if we're talking about a theory of everything the first question we have to establish does god exist yes simple yes it's the identity has a the reality has an identity okay the identity is that as which something exists okay another matter of fact when you say the word reality you're naming an identity it is you're identifying something this i'm smiling because your answer on this is so beautiful it it just reminds me of of moses at the burning bush and

moses at the burning bush says who shall i tell the people that you are talking to god and god says tell them i am that i am right i am identity itself i'm being himself exactly that's exactly right that's what the ctmu says it's just comes up with the mathematical structure that you need to build a reality out of that you see so you come up with that identity and then you search it for its properties you see once you've built the preliminary framework then you start deducing the properties of this identity and you find

out that those properties match those of god as described in most of the world's major religions right just the theistic religion so i'm thinking judaism christianity and islam or are you talking also of saying buddhism taoism hinduism buddhism of course hinduism and buddhism they have a god taoism you know they the their central principle is the way or the dao okay and uh they don't see dao as as as god and then in buddhism of course you've got you know they they are trying basically to achieve sunyata or emptiness right which is most buddhists a

lot of buddhists don't even understand what that's supposed to mean but once again there's no god there you can kind of read god implicitly some buddhists have talked to buddhists who actually think that there is a god in buddhism of a sort but it's you know that concept of of pure consciousness is what it is okay and if you ask them well whose consciousness are you talking about they will point at themselves and say my consciousness in a way they're you know they kind of attribute the existence of everything to themselves okay now i know

i've known a lot of people in hollywood in washington dc who do the same thing actually well that's that's right that's why buddhism is very fashionable among some of those people that's a good point yeah that's a good point so so yes uh but anyway when you look at what they've they've all got you come down to the same thing all right everybody has the dao or the way you know that's the way reality works right and uh and and everybody you know has sunyata which is pure syntax right pure cognition with no instantiation no

content right and then you've got what what the abrahamic religions call god it's all the same thing okay but what are its properties okay are its properties such that you can deny the existence of god or are its properties such that god definitely has to exist and the answer is god exists god property is the properties of the central substance and central principle of reality those properties are attributed to god including of course you know things like you have the three o's omniscience omnipotence and omnipresence but then you've also got consciousness god has to be

sentient so so we're not just we're not just defining god out of existence sometimes you'll hear people say god exists and and but they'll give god such a weak and shallow definition that the god that they're describing has no uh no relation to the god that we conceive of you're saying no this god is god god himself is conscious and and therefore personal yes you can establish a personal relationship with god we're images of god you know what an image is it's basically the product of a mapping god maps himself into each human being right

that's a very personal thing that god is doing for us right and i don't understand how anybody can say that it's any different we reflect the structure of the universe each one of us we're carried by it everything we do we exist in a medium what is that medium right where did it come from what holds it together what is the unifying coherence the source of coherence of that medium now now is your claim that is your claim a pantheistic claim that god is the universe or the universe is god and that's that or no

or is god outside of the universe and created god is greater than well what is the universe damned if i know you ever hear the simulation hypothesis yes okay well the simulation hypothesis is basically the idea that reality we see around is physical reality is simulated on some sort of an automaton or or a or a computer yeah some some aliens somewhere have just uh they've fooled us right right exactly eat a piece of liquid before one launches into the simulation one needs a little sustenance you know okay so anyway the idea is that you've

got some kind of an automaton running you've got a simulation mounting on it and god it's more panentheistic you know what panentheism is i do uh i think i do but that means that uh we are in god let me know how i've gone wrong we are in god and god is in us and it is not merely that god and the creation are one and the same but they are quite related is that something approaching panentheism a little bit because there's uh there's the idea is that you've got the physical universe that you see

around you but god is not confined to the physical universe okay see there's a an ordinary pantheist thinks assumes that god is somehow confined to the universe that there is just what we see around us and god is in every piece of it god is distributed over it yeah but it's uh it's a little bit more complex than that because this part of the universe that we see around us cannot exist just by itself yeah okay there are certain things that it entails and when you go into those entailments that's how you get to god

that's how you get to the identity of reality okay and now to get back to the to the reality self-simulation at least that's what i call it self-simulation but to get back to the simulation hypothesis that we're living in the display of that simulation in addition to the display there is also a processing aspect okay and god it captures both of those things he captures both the display and the processor what what do you mean i hate to put it in the end well i mean okay here's the display you realize the display contains states

yep okay you see things the objects contains it states are static that's why they're called states okay static how do they change well they have to be processed something has to okay yeah yeah and and in the calculus for example those are tiny little infinitesimal intervals okay but they are not actually contained in the states themselves they have a neighborhood a little tangent space or what have you you know where you can sort of draw little vectors that suggest that some kind of processing is going on but the idea of being a state and being

a process those are two different things to the in the ordinary ordinary way of looking at it okay it turns out that you can't properly describe reality and causation at all unless you put those things together somehow and that's what it takes god to do okay god provides the processing functionality for your state you have an internal state an external state you're a material human being right like to explain how that is changing through time uni and maintaining its coherence through time even as it changes that's what you need god for yeah i certainly agree

with that entirely and so i i might not be sophisticated enough to parse all of the quibbles that there might be but broadly speaking as a christian so much of what you're saying resonates is obviously true for me the idea that uh well i'm a member of the body of christ the idea that god creates the world in this uh great act of love this great act of charity self-love and and yeah yeah well then self-love don't forget you're an image of god right so when loving himself god loves you and god and and you're

supposed to love god back right and this ties into something like the trinity right the idea that god is three persons in one divine unity so all of this is making a lot of sense to me so now how do i how do i make sense of consciousness well ordinarily you know what quantum mecha you know quantization is you know i know the word yeah well you decide what the the ultimate irreducible objects are the the the quanta in terms of which your reason it turns out that in order to quantize that theory that i

was talking about that theory of identity where you've got the display and you've got the processor and it's handling both it turns out that in order to handle both of those things you need a certain kind of quantum that quantum is called an identity operator god is the identity so obviously these little quanta they have to be they're doing things they're processing so we can call them operators right they are identity operators okay the identity operator has basically it takes input from the outside world recognizes it or accepts it using syntax processes it and then

returns it to the world as external state okay so things come in then they're processed right there's throughput which is you could call that the subjective or internal state of the identity operator and then it's returned to the external universe so what are you attributing now so what i'm saying is that's consciousness and i'm saying that consciousness exists in every part of the universe because those are the quantum no that's what i'm asking are you telling me that this table is conscious in that sense yes generically conscious but it's relying on our consciousness to do

it we have there's there's levels of quanta okay these are tertiary quanta they're all put together using physical localistic forces right but those are under determinative they don't fully determine what happens why the heisenberg uncertainty principle for example it tells you that you know the quantum rules they're probabilistic right they don't actually determine events okay so what determines events we do we don't know how we do it but we do it when everybody's will is put together we're all creating the best possible universe we can for ourselves and god is what harmonizes all of our

different perspectives and makes things happen for all of us at the same time and if we were doing things correctly this would be the best of all possible worlds sadly however we oftentimes make mistakes and that's what we have to get out of doing but we can't get out of doing it until we understand what reality is what we are and what the relationship between those two things is now you've mentioned two things that raise a new question for me which is you mention this idea of simulation just the simulation or self-simulation and you've mentioned

us doing things so then it would seem to me we have to tackle the question do we really do much of anything at all in the sense do we have free will yes we do okay i'm glad to hear it i always thought we did well yes we have to have free will oh i was discussing with you earlier the idea of a fixed array yeah all right now modern physics no basically what you've got is you've got a bunch of quantum fields and superposition and then those fields consist of little fluctuations little quantum fluctuations

right where is the fixed array we were talking about a manifold right with a bunch of zero dimensional points okay those two things are not compatible okay quantum field theory and that that that fixed array manifold where you can parameterize all of the causal functions using the manifold that doesn't work okay those two things don't fit together now now you you explained to me when we were speaking about this earlier you put this into even more layman's terms and i've somehow it has already flown out of my head can you can you put that into

more basic terms what you've just said but what was it you you need to understand about this what what are you actually why why are these two concepts you're describing why are they not reconcilable these what is the problem with these oh i i explained that to you already that's what okay all right it consists of zero dimensional points limit points or cuts and i told you what a dedicated cut was right these limit points have zero extent they're exact locations and that's a cut you're actually you know you've got something on one side of

the point and then you've got something on the other side of the point and any line that you draw through the point itself is going to be cut by the point yep okay so so we call that a cut okay okay and the uh the cut is zero dimensional which means that it has no extent at all it's an exact location it's precise no extent it's not smeared out okay if you take all of those points and you add them together you get zero right now because no matter how many times you add zero to

itself you just get zero and because the manifold consists of those points that's what you have to do to find out the extent of the manifold okay so what this is telling you is that the manifold itself has a zero extent there's nothing there so the real manifold of classical physics is a paradoxical construct okay okay so that's why those two things that's why that doesn't work with quantum field theory and the idea that things are are you know quantum fluctuations and fields you know that's as a matter of fact that particular concept of the

real manifold that doesn't work for anything at all it's a conceptual convenience we can reason about reality in terms of it and we can actually get to some very interesting conclusions okay using it you're right but it doesn't work in the long run okay and because it doesn't work most causal functions of course are parameterized in terms of this manifold okay okay in other words you take you know you've got x y and z axes and the forces that exist the forces that cause things to hap to happen right those are those forces are all

directed along one of those axes that's what a force is right okay when you take away the points those zero dimensional points now all of that disappears the basis of causation has just fled the coop on you right okay because you no longer have little points the tails of the little vectors that point there you can no longer parameterize your causal functions using those points and vectors so what do you do to get causal functions well it turns out you have to use something called advanced causation and you combine that with retrocausa with uh retro

cause or excuse me advanced causation is called retro causation you combine that with ordinary causation and you get something else entirely it's called metacausation in the ctmu so it's referred to using two operations one of which is called conspansion and the other which is called sub operation called telecrecursion because when we're talking about free will often the conversation especially these days becomes this sort of shallow discussion of well this caused this and i'm going to describe a totally deterministic system and so as a result of this causing this causing this causing this you don't have

free will and you're saying cause is actually more complicated than just cause that's correct in other words talking about free will in those terms is oshios means nothing you can't get anywhere with it okay reality is actually generative okay it's not a fixed manifold everything has been created all the time not just our states our states are being recreated right you know i can cross my legs i can uncross my leg that's that's the that's the changing state yeah but uh but the medium around us is changing when i look at you i'm seeing michael

knowles okay i'm seeing you sitting there but that means that i'm seeing your boundary i'm seeing what distinguishes you from the external environment right there's a medium around you so i have to be regenerating that as the same time as i'm regenerating your state in my head okay when i say regenerating the reason i'm doing that i could also say i'm recognizing michael knowles i'm recognizing your state right now but i'm also recognizing the state of the medium around you because otherwise i wouldn't be able to distinguish you from the medium and you wouldn't exist

at all right right well it's sort of like a a little baby right has trouble uh recognizing the limits of things and recognizing what some individual object might be from you know the glass on the table they have trouble distinguishing those precisely yeah okay the baby has to learn to distinguish those boundaries and it has to receive the right visual cues at the right age so that it can actually learn how to do that yeah so now now we're at metacausation so what does medicalization hap what causation works from past to future okay metacausation works

from past to future and from future to past in a closed loop it's called a conspensive cycle okay okay so that's basically what we have to do to quantization in order to make causality where no and of course when i say causality i mean metacausation okay so how does because ordinary past the future causality parameterized by a fixed array that doesn't work so i get i get past the future this seems pretty simple i pick up the glass of water i put it over here and now i remember two seconds ago that water was over

here and then i caused it to go over there right so how do you cause something to go from the future to the past you it you it can't go anywhere unless there's some place for it to go yeah that's that's all i'm saying okay this is in the universe everything changes with time you're actually you know in the theory of relativity for example all the points are events okay and that means that there's a time parameter involved okay so when you take that glass and you move it from there to there okay you think

that there's a point right there where you're gonna move that glass that's false okay the point to which you are going to move that glass is actually in the future when you pick up that glass it's still in you understand what i'm saying yes okay that makes sense and and then getting back to god i guess we're always trying to get back to god god is outside of time and space distributes over time and space and there's some left over time and space is static it's a display imagine that you're a little homunculus inside a

computer display like the matrix for example okay god not only distributes over that but there's a whole other domain where god exists and that's the processing domain that's the non-terminal domain in the ctme we're in the terminal domain right and most physicists when they try to reason about the terminal domain they reason under physical confinement okay well i can only look at physics and i have to use what i know about physics what i can observe about physics to explain everything else that i explain so they have that kind of explanatory closure yep going right

there so speaking of this non-terminal domain in a really basic question do i'm not going to ask you if i'm going to go to heaven or hell but will i go to either heaven or hell you will persist after you die okay where you go depends on who michael knowles really is i you would know that better than anyone yeah i i hope i know that better than but you're you're telling me i'm going somewhere yes you're confident of that i don't just uh evaporate i don't just turn into oblivion well you can if you

displease god that's exactly what's going to happen to you god is going to cut you off and he's going to say i can't see him anymore he's going to turn away from you and then you won't be able to reunite salvation will be impossible for you because salvation means that god has got to pull you back into himself right okay but god doesn't want to see you anymore he doesn't even know you exist he knows your physical body is there but he's not interested anymore because you hate him you deny his existence you offend him

so he's not going to look at you right so now what happens well okay you're dead you still want to live there's something in you that still desperately wants to live so it's still going to be there what happens now well you try to create your own world for yourself but if you're a bad person you're an evil person what kind of world is that going to be it's going to be an evil world and that's what we call hell this is what john milton says in the mouth of satan he says the mind is

its own place and it can make a hell of heaven or heaven a hell no you got it it reminds me of dante also this this idea of god turning away at the very deepest part of hell is satan frozen in a lake of ice of his own making of his own making because of the flapping of his own wings because he's apart from the warmth of god precisely okay that's the way it has to work so we've gotten through death judgment heaven and hell free will and god i'm not completely there's a lot more

to be said well and and we still have some time i mean fortunately on my usual show there is about 30 seconds to come to any conclusion about anything and thankfully i am not bringing chris lange into nashville to talk for 10 minutes i this is going to be a much longer discussion uh so for this discussion would you like a cigar sure i haven't smoked a cigar in a long time oh excellent you know the body is a temple the temple needs incense back in the day i used to enjoy a cigar every now

and then good cigar i'm glad you liked it this is one of my favorite cigars that's come out you know if you were on the joe rogan show they would offer you something a little stronger but uh this we're gonna keep it to tobacco on this show i think i think i've seen a couple of yeah i've seen the rogan show a couple of times he was talking about some kind of drugs at that point in his career i think that's all he was talking about yeah did you ever get into drugs i'm not saying

you know just because you were around bars in new york but even the drugs that everyone says expand your mind and anything like that well you couldn't really grow up in the era when i grew up around the kind of people i was surrounded with without trying you know some drugs i have no i don't have a substance abusive tendency in my body i i i just don't have any bad habits except for this licorice and candy oh man i love that stuff it's addictive i don't know it is but i have to hide it

for myself i don't have any in the house right now um but you so you never go because i would always have people tell me especially in college they'd say michael you have to drop acid you have to smoke this you have to take mushrooms it's going to expand your mind and i thought you know my mind is my brain such as it is is pretty much all i got i'm not exactly the captain of the football team and if some drug messes up my brain i'm sunk that's correct but of course what they say

is that some of these medications are can actually be good for you in terms of you may have certain things certain mental routines that are destructive and that aren't good for you that can be interdicted by psychedelics for example what's your take on it my take is that could very well be true you know the psychedelics could open up a gap between your your temporal consciousness and your non-terminal consciousness right your mind is a it's an extended stratified thing you're we're just using our terminal consciousness right now but there are other aspects to your consciousness

you can actually get you know certain kinds of insights and communications if you just open up a gap you understand let them come in and let them come in and fill the gap and then you know you can see them as they would ordinarily so the things that people see when they're on psychedelics i usually write them off and i tell people you know you're just uh hallucinating but but you're saying maybe that's not not all it is they might be seeing something real well once again what is reality is reality just stuff out there

no reality has a mental aspect right and once you admit that basically everything has a mental aspect then of course what's going on in your mind is real it takes on a kind of reality it's not the same as physical reality it is nevertheless real are angels and demons real yes yes i think so too is there is there a fear that if you take some of these drugs you might be letting in the wrong guys that's a problem isn't it and that's a problem that i think a lot of people have encountered you have

to be a certain kind of person to be able to handle these drugs and not be sucked under by them okay because once your mind is you know is is is uh is messed with and that way something else you know it's weakened you know you're not exactly in control anymore something else can come in and grab it and if you open up that gap that i was talking about what can come into that gap might not be good for you god is real angels are real demons are real is the devil real oh yes

yes well it has to be you know we were talking about michael knowles being surrounded by the medium and you know you've got a boundary well god has a boundary too he's got a very tight boundary he's a perfect he's perfect he can't take anything resembling imperfection right he can't take it into himself because that would be a contradiction okay so god needs an antithesis in order to be properly defined what is that antithesis anti-god or satan so it definitely exists now satan isn't coherent because you know he basically hates existence nevertheless he gains coherence

through human beings through secondary telors as they're called in the ctmu in other words satan can nucleate power structures for example you know things like corporations and governments where you've got people in there that can be acquired as resources and there's a kind of skeleton you know a corporate organization a governmental you know organization that's holding them together holding them in place that can be exploited by satan so you're not describing manichaeism you're not saying there's god and then the the opposite of god and there's some maybe equivalence between the two you're saying that god

obviously there is an antithesis christ has an antichrist but that it's incoherent and and in you know are you saying that he sort of lack that the devil sort of lacks substance or that's why he needs the humans i'm saying the devil likes coherence coherence is what brings everything into superposition right with itself in other words it allows something to this is going to sound a little bit paradoxical allows something to communicate non-locally with itself okay right all of its possible states are in superposition they exist all all at once okay and this is this

is uh pretty much inescapable i'm reminded of a writer renee gerard who who has this idea had this idea that uh the devil being who he is is a kind of contradiction of being and it seems to me what gerard says is something similar to what you're saying which is that he requires us to kind of do his dirty work that is correct yeah we give existence to the devil to save now you have to make a distinction however between satan and lucifer for example now lucifer is an angel okay that's what he's supposed to

do is fallen angel right you know but nevertheless an angel right the angel of light okay the morning star whatever you want to call them okay that is not safe those are two different things what's the difference this would no doubt be classified as a heresy for example in the in the church i did not i did not bring the inquisition with me yet they're not behind the curtains here so so what is your idea then because traditionally it's understood that satan and lucifer are the same person you're saying they're different yes yes how are

they different well lucifer walks the fence basically he's the angel of light what does light do basically light is what brings reality to us okay he's walking the fence between good and evil we're all in the same boat we all walk the fence between good and evil okay how can we do that okay well through lucifer and the grace of god through lucifer basically lucifer has been exiled here because god can't take won't tolerate the imperfections of this place okay he has lucifer handle that for him and that's why lucifer is is what he is

that's how he fell down here to earth okay he's performing a function here that function is light i mean i don't know do you follow what i'm i i do i'm still trying to parse the difference a little if christ says i saw satan fall like lightning from heaven is he describing satan here or he's describing lucifer or both if christ were here and i could hear his exact words i could perfectly interpret them right okay yeah yeah but it's very hard to do that you know 2 000 years after the fact right with all

the different translations and interpretations that the bible has undergone okay and what i like to do is i like to approach it from first principles and look at it logically right rationally and what does logic tell us if anything okay well logic tells us that basically god needs a negation but that negation is too incoherent to function in this world except through human beings right what's the rest of it what's the rest of it all about yeah and this is lucifer is a concept that is better suited than satan to that purpose i i love

this point that uh he's incoherent that the old devil is incoherent that i read some poem i think it's a modern poem that says you know sin is a big is a big problem because it's evil but it's also a big problem because it's such a waste of time it's such a way it's so incoherent when you think of people when you actually when you take the suffering out of it and you just think of people committing any particular sin it just doesn't make any sense does it or you think so the sense that it

makes to them is they're enjoying it they're hedonistic deriving pleasure from from the sin and of course we all you know have the same pleasure mechanisms so we're all tempted to commit sin but we've got to keep a lid on it there have to be limits okay and what i'm worried about is that now satan controls the world and there are certain people involved in running things who don't have those limits well they're so rich they're so you know powerful that they don't need those limits anymore so they're more or less thrown them off now

there's nothing new to the idea that uh satan or or lucifer or let's call him just the old uh the old devil himself can is the prince of this world and that the rich and the powerful just they do his bidding and they're bad people and they follow their lowest appetites and their pleasures and they they can be sadistic and so that's been going on for a long time is there something particular about the moment we're living in that says it's actually gotten much worse yes that is they've actually we've had such a so many

technological advancements that now the the technology of of surveillance and coercion are such and these people are so rich you know they're like black holes gravitating all the money to themselves that they're they're unstoppable okay and because they're unstoppable because they they actually run everything okay we are endangered by them now it sounds to me like you're saying we don't live in uh schoolhouse rock i'm a bill up on capitol hill we're not living in the republic that a lot of us say that we're living in that's correct we're ruled basically the world is globalistic

now it's run by globalists that's that's what that's their goal i mean that's what global means we're going global you know it's oligarchic and it would therefore be oligarchic that's absolutely correct oligarchic because very few of them actually exist and this is beyond uh you know a u.s senator this is beyond the structure there's no those are puppets you know i i it's it's fairly common knowledge now i suppose that i regard uh most politicians as being one step removed from prostitutes that's been true foreign know a few exceptions but let me tell you they're

they're on the run yeah okay so it's uh it's a very serious situation right and if you take a look at these globalists the ones that have thrown off all the limits and they're fantastically rich and powerful now and you take a look at what they actually have upstairs i'm afraid it's not very impressive right okay i mean if you really look at their intellectual production soros might be the best of them he's at least got a theory of economics you know it's flawed but you know he at least has that the rest of them

are just a bunch of civil rights what about uh i guess even outside of banking or finance per se what about someone like bill gates that guy's everywhere he seems to be i don't know why is he an expert on health care i don't know but my television tells me that he is why is he so someone like that but is he a he's a smart guy he's got to be right he oh he's not stupid bill gates is uh he's got a respectable intellect but there's something misfiring there okay bill is very concerned with

uh with overpopulation and we do have an overpopulation problem so then this brings me to i asked friends of mine i said speaking to chris langan send in your questions and most of the questions were about metaphysics and god and the ctmu and all of your thoughts on all those things but one friend of mine he said you know i want you to ask him about bitcoin i want you to ask him about money and if they're basically if there's any way to bring break uh the government or super government control of money what do

you think of if i want to start my own my own currency i guess i could i'd call it michael coin is there is there any is this one way to push back against an increasingly technocratic global form of government yes there is but it has to start at the local level you're not going to print your own cur world currency to compete head-to-head with these you've got to go you know basically attend a few city council meetings you've got to go in there you know say your piece say we've got a problem you know

basically the world is run by globalism this is america you know we should have our right of self-determination here but that's being taken away from us see who uh you know agrees with you about it you know i mean somebody will probably come up to you after your speech and say you know i agree with you a hundred percent you then you start you find out who those people are you get together and you start putting pressure on your local politicians are you saying the situation is so bad politically that uh actually you know people

will call you a radical and an extremist and a terrorist for something like this but are you saying basically jefferson we need we need to go fight another revolution or something or is there i i would just assume see this whole thing resolved non-violently of course i want you know i want peace on earth i want everybody to feel as though we're we're in fellowship with each other the brotherhood of man you know what i'm talking about that is the right way to do it when when you or i or or donald trump for that

matter you use the word globalism what the liberal establishment says is oh that's either they'll say globalism is good and we should have more of it or they'll say that's a crazy conspiracy theory there's no such thing as globalism what i could i could point to a lot of international organizations that increasingly try to take power away from national government what are intelligence agencies what are trade secrets what's what's intellectual property they're off property they're all conspiracies right okay people trying to get ahead by lying by a mission or relying directly to other people the

competition right that's what it is you can't get away from conspiracy it's how the world works as a matter of fact it's game theoretically rational so you're saying not conspiracy theory you're saying just flat out conspiracy that's what makes the world go around i'm afraid you know and oh but of course you know the the elite themselves realize this they know that that's how the world works they just want to distract you well that's that's such a such a great way to put it where you say a trade secret or or just just a group

of people come together they say i've got this good idea for a company and we're going to come together and do that and we're not going to let the competition know about it we're going to start this and we're going to hopefully it'll be successful and we'll make some money and that is a young foreign leaders i mean everybody's a young global leader right i mean trudeau macron merkel putin you know for the putin deals you that very much surprised me but klaus schwab is on record he's on video in fact you know claiming that

vlad putin is one of his young global leaders trained in globalism you know it's funny you mentioned that the young the young wing of the world economic forum when i was a freshman in college you get all of these opportunities for uh internships and fellowships and you get a grant you try to get a grant you see apply to these things i don't know anything i don't know anything about any of these groups and so i said i'm a politically minded young man very conservative so it made me very different than my classmates right and

one of the opportunities that came across was the world economic forum global change makers were invited to be a part of this no i applied i what did i actually apply i applied and i said i said they said wait a minute well i didn't know what it was so i said what's the experience i said well i'm very involved in this conservative group and this right-wing group and this good way to get ahead i got to give you that well but i'll tell you i i thought i had a good resume it wasn't like

my classmates which was a lip they had all their liberal groups so i said i'm a conservative so but you probably want some conservatives here right and i so i apply and you know you're going to be shocked to hear this chris i didn't hear back i'm absolutely flabbergasted and my liberal classmates who i felt had a weaker application but they were all part of the liberal groups yes they did get it i guess it makes sense now that i know what the world is socialism i mean what is communism right these things were actually

funded they're more or less invented by the central bank you know who funded you know originally was paying marks and engels and before that moses has and other people to come up with you know it's a strategy for world domination it has been for the last 200 years what has changed so so when someone like trump comes along and he says i'm not going to fight this political battle along exactly left right lines or republican democrat but i'm saying i'm going to stand for the american nation and and nationalism generally against globalism but he managed

to get through he did get elected yes he did were you a trump supporter you don't need to say if you don't as a matter of fact back when people were saying trump can't read look look at the way he hesitates you know he can't he's got trouble with the teleprompter the guy can't read i actually stood up and i said no i said i've met donald trump and i think his iq is probably equal to that of the average harvard professor really yeah oh yeah i i actually stood up for course i never got

anything out of it but you know i thought i was doing you know you just said it because telling people that you know basically he is company he's a good businessman you know and therefore could be good for the country and i wanted people to understand that so how did this guy and i i've asked this i've asked this to my friends and i said how did this guy who i think was basically on the level and really did at least try to pose a a stopping block to the globalism program how did he ever

get elected how'd they let him through well he was a little bit of a wild card trump is not as easily controlled as some of them are so he stood up there and he spoke his mind he's got good instincts in that respect because what he said resonates with what is in the minds of a lot of american citizens we want to have our own country we want america to have first we don't want our borders to be open we don't want millions of third world migrants coming here every year and displacing us from our

own territory i mean and trump actually did a good job of enunciating that that's how he got elected okay and the first time around you know they weren't prepared yep you know so they couldn't do anything about it the second time around are you suggesting chris that there were some questions about the 2020 presidential election anyone who doesn't understand that that election was shall we say not quite up to snuff is some kind of i because i was told by all the fact checkers and all those social media sensors that if i raised any question

i said you know it seems like they kind of violated the law in pennsylvania and it seems like actually they kind of extended the voting periods they said that's that's crazy you're a conspiracy theorist how dare you well that's exactly what they do you see you've violated group think so you're out your opinion means nothing would how would you describe your politics populist conservative i was always pretty much of an independent when i was a kid i was basically a democrat working you know i mean my family was democratic you know it was uh i

think my stepfather was a you ever hear the wobblies yeah he was an organizer for the wobblies out of out of uh chicago okay and so always i was raised around this liberal attitude so yeah we were we were democrats and i thought okay yeah the working man the people that actually the people that actually hold this country together that keep everything moving you know those are the ones that we should really care about and and you know if we if we're not careful the rich will walk all over them so they need you know

somebody to to to to defend them and to take care of them and you know i'm one of those people i wasn't rich you know we didn't my family had no money at all yeah so naturally i gravitated to that then the democratic party changed okay no longer was it about the working man suddenly it was full of like these billionaire techies that have never done an honest day's labor in their entire miserable lives okay and i realize wait a minute things have changed here yeah there is no more democratic party of the kind that

that i used to know about okay that i used to belong to and that's when i became a conservative and a conservative in a stronger sense than most people who call themselves conservatives today because they're really just cuckolded by the liberals no they're afraid they're afraid to say boo to them i mean look well you know what's funny now i i was told some years ago this was probably 2016 2017 someone said michael you you can't use the word cuckold as an insult because that's uh racist or sex so right and i said look i'm

of italian extraction cuckold is the oldest insult in the italian culture that you know even the sicilians have a gesture for them and it's the rock star gesture i think uh i forget the name of the rock star also sicilian who popularized it and very famous i can't believe his name escapes me but that that's not it's the that's the symbol of the cuckold i said there's nothing wrong about you it's a very funny insult and it's descriptive apparently some married apparently there are married couples that actually that's their hobby right i can't see it

myself but not my thing right but and and it's it's obviously it's disordered nobody wants you know i don't think rationally anyone would say that's a good way to uh live your life and what you're saying is that there are people who call themselves conservatives and really they're just squish cuckolded or they just give in it's a figure of speech yeah we're not accusing them of literal cockroaches no they might be i don't know i don't know in the bedroom but basically they are letting the other party wear the pants yeah and they're putting on

their little panties yeah and doing whatever they're told that's what i'm saying yeah that's what kind of that's that's the modern rhino the modern republican you know i mean that's what most of them are and believe you me most of them wouldn't do a damn thing for anybody else right they're basically into their own thing their own self-interest and they just never take any risks on behalf of the american people anymore and that offends me because we're paying them and they've promised to represent our interests and they're not doing it well you look at really

basic issues something like immigration well and trump really won on the immigration issue something like immigration this is no insult to anyone around the world who wants to come to the united states it's frankly it's not even an insult to the illegal aliens who are pouring across the border but i think anyone can agree taking in one million legal immigrants and two million illegal immigrants annually it's gonna be more than that this year probably on top of that three million people per year taking them in or whose houses are they living in here see them

living in anybody anybody from washington dc's house no it's not martha's vineyard southampton you don't see too many of them there no but it's a but it's a political strategy that is opposed if you look at public opinion polls the vast majority of americans including lots and lots of democrats want to drastically reduce this this immigration issue and yet doesn't matter which party gets elected the border remains open the west especially after uh the especially after world war ii you've got the this huge boom in the west you've got the second half of the 20th

century now we're into the 21st century that's where all the money is that's where all the opportunity is and so just naturally people want to flood in there and if you've got relatively lacks immigration policies well we used to have in order to get into this country you used to have to prove that you were of value that you could offer it something it wasn't just about us giving to you if you were an immigrant you wanted to come here you had to show that you had something to offer yourself okay you had to you

know learn english you had to go through ellis island or wherever you had to learn english you had to learn about the constitution you had to buy into our to our politics but now it seems you're incentivized to to hate america to hate western civilization that's right and now who would be doing that any real american not that i know of okay it's just it's a contradiction in terms so but so what's the end game here i mean if if america is world domination they're going global that's what it's all about so if if we've

got this oligarchic group this self-appointed oligarchic group that i in my naivete in uh freshman year of college i say oh the world economic forum or what forget even wef there are other international organizations the united nations obviously uh the european union which the the brits have pulled themselves out of but there are there are these groups throughout the west that want to erase national borders essentially that's correct um and they want to deracinate everybody that lives inside and yes the race culture i say this as the relatively moca skinned southern italian here uh but

there is a there is a sense that no there is no um we don't want to even even just look at europe we don't want there to be french culture and german culture and british culture i know what a tragedy that is look at those cultures they're beautiful all the most beautiful cultures in the world and the french and the french on top of all those beautiful cultures too yeah right you know what the brits always say right france is much too good for the france [Applause] that's a good way to put it so so

then what do what is your thought moving forward we're in this very bad political spot right now would seem to me we've been in bad spots before uh tower of babel didn't seem particularly pleasant the solution to that didn't seem particularly uh pleasant to listen to talker yeah yes so so what happens now do we just need to field a good candidate you know or no this is so far going political system is kind of shot okay so i'm afraid it's going to take some activism we're going to have to look i don't want anything

violent to happen i don't want a new revolution but i will tell you this that if people don't act as though they are willing to fight for their own rights they're going to lose those rights founding fathers knew it you know it's written right into the constitution okay if we don't fight for our rights we're going to lose them simple as that you mentioned uh everyone getting stuck with the fouchyauchi for the last two years and you know it's so so extremely effective that we all need to take 55 just to uh marvel at the

perfection and efficacy of it are you uh are you anti-vaccine generally i take it you're anti covin well i bought into the covert thing at first and you know i went out and bought you know gina and i bought you know gas masks for us and you know those n100 masks and uh you know and i advise people what to do so it's not to get infected with the the deadly cove and then i noticed that that you know it wasn't really killing you i live in northern missouri nobody up there was wearing masks nobody

up there i mean and nobody was dying of covet 19. so i realized there's got to be something a little bit off about this right and so i you know kind of like started getting away from it and then i noticed that you know this well then i noticed that it was being used as a pretext for something called the great reset and again i mean to bring back the world economic forum this is a page on the wef website is something it's the great the great reset of the global economies and the global political

order that they're very open about it okay and there have been you know white papers written in the past about using just this methodology to get you know to get uh everybody behind the globalist agenda right operation you know warp speed was part of that you know and so then it then does trump bear some responsibility for heavenly bear's responsibility my question is does he really know what's going on or has he or surrounded himself with people that are misleading him about what's going on i would like to believe that donald trump has been misled

but if he knows how much damage those so-called vaccines have actually caused and he's still pushing them then we have a problem you know if if you raise any questions about even the covid vaccines which which don't do at the very least they don't do what biden and fauci and wallensky told us they would do namely to stop you from contracting the virus or spreading it to at the very least it doesn't do that uh you're called a a crazy anti-vaxxer and that's called cognitive dissonance right i mean you know who's crazy you know if

you can look at the reality of what is happening and you can deny it and call anyone who who believes in it a conspiracy theorist what kind of person are you well you're obviously a nut job a kook a or something like that right that's what all these people are as i say conspiracy makes the world go round okay now beyond uh finance or beyond these ngos you mentioned the intelligence agencies something that occurs to me is if i were working at an intelligence agency they never invited me never got never got that uh invite

unzip recruiter perhaps you should consider yourself lucky i i think i do i certainly do uh but if i were at an intelligence agency and i've heard there was a guy with the highest iq ever recorded who was contradicting the liberal establishment agenda i'd probably have a file on that guy have you uh have you had any run-ins with the some interest has been shown it was a bleak they're very uh you know let's just put it this way i managed to you know meet you know a couple three people that are involved in that

line of work when there was no actual reason that that should have happened in other words but they're very cagey about it if they want to recruit you they'll probably do it obliquely if you don't apply to actually join an intelligence service but they're interested in you they will try to get you involved with someone who they control and then he will then vector you around and and put you in touch with the right people but you've got to accept the agenda sight unseen before that happens right you've more or less got to let them

know that okay no matter what they're actually planning to do i'm going to go along with it because i really really want to be in the cia or the defense intelligence agency the nsa or whatever right no such agency [Laughter] i like that yeah but you have to somehow display some sort of willingness before you will be directly approached by them okay and i guess i never displayed that kind of willingness so i'm not in yeah i'm not there i'm not in the intelligence community i am you know periodically in touch with people who are

in the intelligence community uh you know in various email distributions and things like that but that's it since we're already in it they're gonna there there are going to be people out there who say this guy is talking about every conspiracy theory i ever heard in the whole book since we're already in it let to take a slightly different tack but still within the realm of what wikipedia is going to call it conspiracy theories do you believe in aliens well i will say this the intelligence community large sectors of it believe in aliens really yes

oh absolutely it's a big i mean they're constantly discussing these things yes and if you look at the global elite you know and you wonder well i don't want to blame the world banksters for this you know that's you know that's a conspiracy theory then who is pulling all those strings okay could there be another kind of entity you know um aliens demons whatever could there be something that's pulling their strings that that the global banksters know about right and they're taking orders from but they're being totally concealed and hidden from the public this is

a viable hypothesis and it's one that the intelligence communities don't reject it's it's funny you post which is you know kind of neither here nor there because the intelligence communities themselves could be run by aliens for all we know people are going to be laughing when you say that that there are aliens that that let them laugh okay but they can't they won't be able to come up with any any supporting argument against what i'm saying it just they don't know enough well it's ignorant it's funny that you mention angels and demons or pardon aliens

and demons in the same breath because i don't particularly believe in aliens i mean what do i know i don't there are a lot of things i don't know about but i certainly believe that demons exist because i'm pretty confident that demons exist i'm i'm less confident that aliens exist well but the thing is a lot of people are reporting that they're seeing these ufos the other strange alien suggestive phenomena so what what is something like they call it the tic tac of these weird ufos that seem to violate the laws of physics correct basically

they look like you know little you know blobs of light or spheres that can commit these these these uh maneuvers that are totally against the laws of physics as we understand them right they look like they have mass but somehow they're not subject to inertia they can turn on a dime on a right angle and and continue at the same speed they can accelerate at you know a tremendous uh with tremendous g forces okay how does that how can that happen do you have any theory well yes i do but it's an involved you know

it's fairly involved basically when you reduce the world to telesis you understand that the reality consists of a merging of mind and matter it's it's an interplay you know of the two it's not it's not just stuff and it's not just pure abstract it's re it's rea it can be real without necessarily being a completely physical phenomenon okay in other words there can be a mental component to it right and that is what i think is is happening here i think that we've got actually there's something to it the number of people that report ufo

incidents is simply too large people aren't you know they're not all liars they don't run around risking their reputations by saying okay i'm going to make a nut out of myself and say you know these ufos exist but couldn't they just be nuts well i suppose they could but it's you're saying i'm saying it's very improbable that they are i mean because not that many people are that nutty well you know my friend andrew clavin who you met who you met earlier he he has this party trick which is he's a mystery writer and uh

he has written ghost stories and things and at dinner parties he'll say hey just i'll ask random person he'll say hey have you ever seen a ghost he says a lot of the time people will say yes and throughout history people report having seen a ghost that is correct and he says you know too many people are saying they've seen a ghost for their not to be ghosts or something like a ghost that's correct that's absolutely correct have you ever seen a ghost i've seen things that look like ghosts yeah i have i've seen things

that look like ufos too they're there i mean if you're not a very observant person you'll never see anything like that if your mind is completely closed you just screen all that stuff out you'll never see anything like that but if you're an open-minded person and you're observant you will see things like that eventually okay i don't want to put you on the spot to give an example because sometimes if i describe an experience that i would call religious or numinous sometimes people say well describe it and say it's you know it's i can go

around the edges but it's somewhat ineffable could you could you describe such an experience well yes i could describe such an experiment okay well on the ufo thing i was working for the forest service in near lewiston montana um in the lewis and clark national forest uh not too far from malmstrom air force base and i was in charge of a mountain range called the little snowys okay okay i was the the fire guard the regional fire guard for that area and i was alone up there there were campgrounds and i'd you know go up

and tend to the campgrounds and uh you know make sure they were all cleaned up and everything and it was one of my duties and you know i had to be a fire guard which means putting out forests spotting and putting out forest fires and things like that one day i was up there in a forest service pickup truck at a certain campground and i was there and suddenly i look up and i i say suddenly it was just in the scans i became aware that it was up there and i looked up this is

huge spheroidal you know but elliptical not not a perfect spheroid like a saucer that was turned partially on its side okay and i thought well that must be one of those you know lenticular clouds that i've heard of you know so i looked at it and i figured okay now i wonder how this evolves in time totally changeless i actually took sticks and i tried to use parallax to figure out you know what is this thing why isn't it changing why isn't it moving why is it completely featureless and metallic looking well it wasn't any

lenticular cloud okay and i literally stared at it for a long long time before i finally just got okay it's there got back in my pickup and drove away did you did you call it in or anything well i've told a number of people about it yeah i didn't call it in no it was irrelevant to the state of my campgrounds you know it's funny you mentioned because sometimes people say this is a little different than seeing a ufo but somewhat related people will say you know i don't believe in god i don't believe in

christianity because i don't believe in miracles if miracles really happened we'd all know about it and one if you look at the gospel accounts of miracles happening the the wildest part of it is not the miracle happening it's the fact that when the miracle happens everyone treats it as this miraculous event and then five seconds later they move on and people treat it as totally ordinary and this happens again and again and again it's even happened i would say that i've experienced things that are miraculous yes and even in my own life not one week

later i'm just going about my business as though it never happened or or i'll forget that it happened or anything a miracle shouldn't that but you don't deny that they happened no right no i don't important thing because then you know you're really nuts when you when you deny that it happened right right because you're so beholden to some preconceived notion of the way that's correct so who are the real nuts obviously they're the people that are doing all the talk about the alien conspiracy theories okay there's obviously something there or the number of people

that report them wouldn't be reporting them there are people in the cia who actually claim to have been abducted i'm not going to tell you who they are but they're there okay and we're not talking about small individuals we're not talking about low-ranking individuals we're talking about high-ranking individuals these people not just that you've read a book about it you're saying these people you've talked to or people that i was people that there was one of them in particular that that i was actually they were somebody that i knew was trying to arrange an introduction

to this person and i said well you know he's okay so he's in the you know cia um is he going to tell me the truth you know i'm not in the cia is he going to tell me the truth about anything well no actually what he wants to talk about is abductions because you know he and his wife were actually abducted by aliens and he wants to talk to you about and i said well is he going to tell me the truth about anything well i don't know i said then i don't want to

talk to him okay i don't want to talk to him at all there has to be some kind of understanding that i'm not going to get lied to otherwise i'm wasting my time because i'll never know whether he's lying or telling the truth so if somebody isn't going to commit up front to telling me the truth yeah i don't have time for him if he were a really smart liar he would have just said i will tell you the truth and lied even if you wanted to i suppose so so that's what they do in

the cia yeah right i mean it's sort of the job right if you're a spy that's that's correct and you lie your ass off yeah at every available opportunity about everything right right okay they don't all do that i think there are a couple of people that i sort of trust when they talk about certain subjects but you know by no means are they entirely in the know even i mean if you're in the cia you're basically a bureaucrat right you know right you look up you know you see okay well we you know i've

got my superior and then i'm looking up farther now i see the director of the cia who's giving that guy us orders it ain't the president [Laughter] you know i mean that's that's that suddenly you're in a void who's running things okay most as far as most of these guys are concerned it could be the devil himself that's running things they just don't know you know it's so amazing that you say that because it it it takes it full circle to the point that when i hear okay this so-and-so is actually really beholden to so-and-so

and this person is actually beholden to this person and i i know that that's a fact because you can just see it in politics you can actually you can kind of go to an org chart and kind of point to it right and but then eventually say in so and so if in a really powerful position they're actually responsible to so and so and accountable and you think okay at a certain point you think i don't know i have no way of verifying this this could be it but and then when you go all the

way back to and so and so is really just answering to the devil now you've got me again because because i read that in my bible i know that that's true i know that the you know he's the prince of this world well yeah yes and they've been by the way i mean there are accounts from biblical times and pre-biblical times that involve ufos things in the sky that show up during critical battles for example and turn the tide right this goes all the way back you know to the the vedic religion you know the

pre-hindu religion there are all kinds of people who have reported these things they end up in various religious scriptures including christian scriptures as well in some cases so that i can't think of an example of an extraterrestrial appearance well no they're basically attributed to god these are the interventions of angels or something okay yeah okay you know you even you can go back you know you look at the mayans and the incas and people like that they're also you know they're they're pictures on on uh on temple walls rather they're carvings that seem to suggest

that these things actually existed well you know it it's it reminds me or at least we're perceived right no there's a great meme that i'm really taking with it actually has to do with iq which is a nice coincidence but it's i love this meme because it's got the really stupid guy at the one end of the bell curve and he's sort of drooling and he says duh all the bad stuff is because of the devil right and then you get up on the bell curve into i don't know say iq of 120 or 130.

and it's the really smart guy the egghead with the glasses and he says that's just the start of the danger zone the danger zone it's very interesting when you're just smart enough but not smart and those guys they say no actually the devil doesn't exist and actually we're all just sort of bags of chemicals and no this is all it's all rationally explainable and blah blah blah blah and then you get up to the guy at the really high end of the iq curve in this meme and he says no actually the bad stuff's just

from the devil i mean he agrees with the guy at the other end of the but it strikes me that there's really something to that roger scrutin the late conservative philosopher he said that the job of the conservative intellectual is to articulate things that the common man knows intuitively that's right and it's especially interesting when it comes to you because you're a guy at the very highest end of the intelligence spectrum and you've lived the life of a blue-collar guy that's right i wanted meaning in my life you know it's like i say i wanted

meaning above all things you got to make sure you know that you decide up front when you're a young man if you want to accomplish anything who do you serve truth or mammon okay you don't have a choice there's a you do have a choice but you can't do both at once [Music] okay it's either going to be truth which is the same as god i mean truth and god are to some extent synonymous yeah or is it good to try and beautiful it's going to be money and if you choose money if you choose

mammon then you're going to be serving mammon who happens to be the uh globalists at this point because they control all the wealth and power so you so you mention i think we totally agree marxism is a very terrible ideology that's caused a lot of suffering in the world would you you would agree with not wasting this cigar absolutely not no i wasn't take your time please but so we would agree with that we were pretty anti-marxist yes i'm very anti it's a terrible philosophy yes i mean it's just full of holes as you can

imagine even though all the geniuses at uh princeton or whatever you know there's all these marxists that's a closed that's a club you know if you don't have the key to the clubhouse you're not getting in okay they won't even talk to you no academic will take me on will actually start arguing even in his own field at this point because they know they're going to lose and they will any academic any time but now i yes i mean i'm i'm as uh anti higher education cartel as as there can be right that's the indoctrination

bills you have to look at the entire educational system as being one great big indoctrination factory yeah and the people that work in it those faculty members they're chosen they're selected as indoctrinators but the youth yes and they peddle marxism but but what i like what you just said i mean you boiled it down even more simply you know a lot of politics comes down to you know well you're a socialist i'm anti-say well yeah i'm very anti-socialist and well you're a capitalist or this or that but you seem to be raising some problems with

capitalism too man cannot serve two masters well that's your kind of capitalism one of them is uh let's say fair capitalism then you're you're supporting your family you're trying to get ahead you're trying to enjoy a good and comfortable life but you're not forgetting about god while you do it then you've got monopoly capitalism and this is what libertarians and other people sometimes forget that let's say fair capitalism because money gravitates it's like a black hole takes money to make money right you got to have a bunch once you have a bunch of it it

comes more and more easily to you yeah i think you've got a butane i know let me see if i can will there we go hey how about that not quite miraculous but good so monopoly capitalism is the sort of thing we call crony capitalism crooked capitalism but it's basically you're not just controlling the supply side you're controlling the markets okay you're told what you can buy we've decided that everybody should be using electric cars we're not going to sell the other kind anymore right okay that's monopoly capitalism because if you control the manufacturing the

industry right if you're if you're a trade organization or a trade association and you control that industry you can literally control the market you can only buy what you have the opportunity to buy what they're giving you the opportunity to buy in these days they're only giving you what they want you to have those are the only choices you have as a consumer they're doing this with light bulbs too and it drives me nuts they tried to do it 10 years ago they they are trying to ban incandescent light bulbs which i find to be

much more beautiful than those ugly uh led or any of the other light bulbs i i just in my home i just find it warmer and more beautiful to have and they they are trying to outlaw well my wife agrees with you really well we have you know those old style incandescent bulbs in the in the bedroom for example yeah i even i think of my christmas tree i don't want those little leds they're harsh they're ugly they're blue i want the i want the warmer light and yet but they do make leds by the

way in almost all frequencies these days really you can get daylight leds okay that's costly though i mean they're way more expensive than an incandescent bulb so this this actually raises even a different question here we've talked about truth we've talked about goodness there's one more transcendental beauty correct where does where does beauty factor into your thoughts about everything well no here we get you know into the ctmu there is we all know about the monetary economy right you get money you buy things you know you increase your wealth the economy is actually telec it's

a vast favor bank i do for you you do for me this is actually the trading system that exists in nature can you define the word telic yes tel telesis it means it's a fundamental it's the monarch substance of which everything else is composed okay okay another one i think some people a physicist says well that's energy energy is the basic substance of which everything is mass energy right i'm saying no you've got to go up a step you need something more general with other properties that for instance accommodate information okay you need something more

general than energy to explain that or if you want to you can play a little semantic game and then expand gradually expand the definition of energy so that it takes everything in right but i call that i call the ultimate extension of that telesis okay basically it's a fundamental form of intentionality and if you want to talk about the intentionality of god then you're talking about a dirty word in academia and what is that teleology okay the will of god right yeah things have a purpose that's correct yes and so you're saying that there is

this telic aspect to the economy too we're not just that is fundamentally the only aspect okay money is an abstraction of that so it's a very specified controllable physically commoditized version of telesis okay and you have a certain you know group a certain crowd that has established a monopoly on that now when you establish a monopoly on money you're actually monopolizing the teleco economy as well how people invest their telesis in what can make them money okay unless you're like me and you prefer meaning in your life yeah okay truth all right that's what tells

us is it it encompasses not just money but truth and meaning that uh the way that money and the monetary economy is manipulated we'll uh take into it many more aspects of life that uh and and maybe steer them the wrong way let me i'll try to bring it to earth at least in the way i was thinking about it which is i hate i hate modern buildings i hate them they're so ugly drab and soviet stuff they are and they bring me down and i i walk into grand central a nice old building in

new york and i feel like a king and i feel dignified and i feel like a full human being and then i walk into that they've actually recently tried to make it better but imagine how you felt in the notre dame cathedral before they burned it down which i never got to see never never got to go in me neither so what is that experience like i i wonder for someone who's just got just this perhaps quirk of birth where you just have this extraordinarily high iq is it what is the experience of life is

it is it is it kind of funny and amusing or is it extremely annoying somebody you know got a little uh charge out of it got a little amusement out of it because i sure as hell didn't most of the time you know but i don't complain this is god's world god gave me my lot knew that i was going to go after meaning instead of money and everything that came after was more or less like clockwork if you had it if you had any say in the matter which you don't but in which you

certainly did not would you choose to be born very intelligent or of middling intelligence or of low intelligence what do you think the answer is i wouldn't trade my mind for anyone else's nobody okay simply because i know i understand what the difference is now you lose your if you don't if you're not intelligent you don't cultivate your intelligence and make the most of it eventually you lose sight of truth entirely and that's what has happened to most of these people they're adapting you know okay we've got a narrative i'm not going to get ahead

in life unless i accept the narrative so they accept the narrative it's called adaptation okay it's artificial it's not like natural selection you know where nature selects you okay it's you're being selected now by a bunch of ideologues a bunch of people who who have who want you to adopt a certain way of looking at things because they have all the money and power and they want to keep it forever right that's why the christian church has fallen so so radically out of favor with most of these people even among certain christians high-ranking christians yep

all right it shows up in everything they say and i don't want to mention any particular pope on the other hand you're referring to a certain uh mr francis president vicker of christ well he he's certainly it's he says these things that are so puzzling and potentially uh heretical and certain cardinals have raised dubia have raised doubts and said could you please answer this it sounds like you've said something heretical and the answer is always well you see the papa was a misunderstood he was a misinterpreted in the republican news paper and you say well

you know if he keeps being misreported and misinterpreted why does he keep giving the interviews to these atheist and far leftist journalists i don't know it's not not mine to answer i guess exactly and i mean this is this is something that i think needs to be addressed by the catholic church itself if it wants to stop shedding christians right and left you see because the you know people are not stupid i mean some of them can convince themselves of things that aren't true yeah but basically human beings are intelligent you know and you're cheating

your intelligence when you subscribe to these narratives and apparently the pope you know who communicates directly with god he buys into these narratives and that's a contradiction in terms you know it it's funny you you mention papa francesca because he's come after the latin mass and a lot of young he claims to have been a bouncer at one point in his life i read that somewhere he he doesn't you know you look like you could be a bouncer papa francesco does not look like he was about i don't know do you buy it maybe in

a really light duty nightclub he might have made it you know what i'm saying certainly not in most of the ones that i worked in he's gone after the latin mass and i've noticed that young catholics i you know i fell away i was basically an atheist for about 10 years something that drew me there were a lot of things that drew me back but something that drew me back was the latin mass and specifically the beauty the smells and the bells and the idea that the priest is facing the altar and we're all facing

together and he's leading us in our worship of god and it's not just uh you know acoustic guitar is and feel good and be a nice person to you know and making it all about us in the sense of the sacred the sense of the sacred and and a sense of the the beautiful it's why i asked that question about the role of beauty in your in in your ideas once again a function of the telec economy okay basically it's synonymous with teleology something cannot be anti-teleological or deviate from the will of god and still

be objectively beautiful all right i mean there are people who will take who can take a religious icon or a picture of jesus christ for example and urinate on it yeah right larry david i mean i don't know yeah or even there was the famous picture piss christ right it was a pic it was a photograph of a crucifix that's disgusting this is disgusting it was funded by the federal government i think it received funding for that i believe it was it received some amount of funding from i could be getting this wrong so don't

quote me but i thought it was the national endowment for arts or one of those organizations really i thought so i couldn't i could be wrong but that's bad real bad so i don't know what to say in defense of these people i don't think there is a defense for them okay but if that's the kind of thing that they regard as art then they are not in touch with beauty and the reason they're not in touch with beauty is that they're not in touch with truth but i thought i thought i was told by

all my modern teachers that beauty is in the eye of the beholder it's a subjective thing and it's not objective it is but unfortunately some beholders leave something to be desired in their aesthetic sense you're saying there is an objective standard yes absolutely is it consistent with teleology or is it not right obviously you know basically you've got this identity god who is perfection anything that deviates from that cannot by definition be good or beautiful okay now nature experiments i mean it goes from one thing to another and tries certain certain things out but once

it becomes evident that something isn't working then it's not consistent with teleology once it proves to be degenerate and causes the you know people to become demoralized and sick of life yeah then we have to do away with it i've been told that we need to tolerate also you know all sorts of god does not tolerate evil and neither should we it's a beautiful way to put it so what do you make of the modern right you know the modern left is always pushing this stuff but the modern a lot of the modern right says

look there was there was a prominent columnist who called himself conservative i guess he sort of was for a while but now he's pretty firmly on the left and he said we i don't like drag queen story hour but we need to tolerate it it's one of the blessings of liberty if we don't tolerate drag queen story hour what yes a blessing of liberty well it's an or look it's in the preamble to the constitution i think james madison's rolling over in his grave at the very thought of that constitution mentions does it not in

my last round i mean you know i was raised in an environment where we were you know basically taught to be tolerant of of you know people of their foibles and and you know their if they wanted to be a little bit deviant well a little bit of deviation is good you know you can't just be locked into one rigid way of looking at things so i developed tolerance but now they've become militant they've become rabid they're shoving it down children's throats and it's just not good for society okay it violates the biological imperative of

survival okay to to become totally sexual there's a reason that men and women exist and that they that they mate and create children it's for the survival of the human race okay that has to remain paramount that's got to be the preferred mode of existence okay you've got to buy into that now if you want to be if you want to deviate a little bit in your private life and you've got somebody you know who agrees to be deviant along those lines and you want to get together in the privacy of your own abode you're

not going to have chris lange and knocking on their door i'm not gonna knock on their door it's none of my business it's for them to work out with god almighty okay and if they can do that more power to them i don't know how they're gonna do it but give them a chance okay but when they go out and they have gay day parades where they're cavorting you know nude and they're going into children's restrooms and so forth that's where we have to draw the line you see i mentioned this modern writer who's who

is very misguided on this particular point are there thinkers alive today who you think are worth reading people always say what's the reading list what should i read what should i listen to are there philosophers or popular right there are no academic philosophers that are worthy as far as i'm concerned of attention what about now not because all of them are stupid or anything like that it's because they've bought into the party they're academics yeah okay they cannot violate you know the the academic communistic atheistic narrative and get away with it okay and if you're

in that system then obviously you're playing along with it and you can't do that and be an honest truthful philosopher are there are there non-academic writers thinkers philosophers who you would recommend people read i'm sure they're out there i haven't encountered any not recently what about okay so that gets rid of the living people what about uh those dead guys all those old dead guys going back to ancient greece or anywhere in the middle a lot of those guys had something very useful to say who if uh if a listener right now said i want

to know who beyond beyond his own writing who uh the smartest man in the world wants me to read who would you recommend well i would say that you should go back and definitely read aristotle and plato and socrates okay start with that and then go up and then you know work your way through there a lot of smart guys read the platinus read about neoplatonism right and once you find out about neoplatonism then you can go back to the ancient vedic religion right because it's basically the same thing in different language and as you

know then neoplatonism kind of became a mainstay of medieval christianity okay and there's a lot to that so those you've got that takes us up through you know it takes us up through some of the the medieval christian philosophers and psalm aquinas augustine and beyond that then it starts getting dicey you see i mean even when you get up to like rene descartes for example everything it becomes dualistic you know you've got these cartesian spaces that more or less exclude the observer there are no images of god in a cartesian space you know uh chris

have you ever because you worked at bars you ever hear about the horse who shows up to the bar and asks the bartender for a drink and the bartender says horse man you've been here every night this week i think you're an alcoholic and the horse says i don't think i am poof the horse disappears now you see you will understand this this is a joke about descartes who says i think therefore i am but if i had told you that part first i would have put descartes before the horse i like it this is

the only circumstance in which that joke has ever landed i really i'm really pleased i finally got a laugh out of that joke that's a very intelligent joke much more intelligent than the ones i usually hear well especially in a bar that that at least i can believe that so i'm that digression aside i'm glad you bring this up because people always ask me they say what philosophy should i read one why you asking me but two they always say should i read john locke should i read rousseau should i read the john rawls should

i read this that and i say maybe focus a little earlier first and it's funny you mentioned once you get up to aquinas after him things start to go a little like a little south yeah yeah until now of course all of that is completely out of fashion and most of these modern philosophers are you know they're they're really you know frankfurt school to people and that's cultural marxism which of course is just the social program of the marxists but but chris even though i just wrote a book last year on cultural marxism i have

been told reliably informed by wikipedia that's just a crazy conspiracy theory yes well wikipedia seems to think i'm a crazy conspiracy theory too you read my biography there not recently everything bad that you can say you know basically i was exiled from wikipedia years ago i went in and said no wait a minute here no i'm not an intelligent design creationist per se i have a different approach to teleology and all that and i was immediately kicked off wikipedia okay so i can't they can say whatever they want to in my biography in wikipedia there's

not a thing i can do about it because you even suggested the idea of some sort of intelligent design that is correct well i've been getting trolled ever since around the year two thousand well it goes back further than that really but but when i went on national television and said well the the existence of god is actually amenable to logical analysis and you can show that there is a god provided you have the right that was enough intelligent design creationists get out of here so i've been you know then these people are by the

way these new atheists i mean they're really they're adamant you're talking about uh richard dawkins daniel down talking about richie dawkins daniel dennis sam harris well i don't know chris kitchens you know i mean guys of this nature uh you know whose myers p z meyers and people like that i had a running with myers i mean he asked my guts he hated my guts 20 years ago none of them will mention my name out now though because they know that they can be crushed deep down inside they know they won't come anywhere near me

at some point these people decided that they had to exclude anybody who could beat them okay that's where the cancellation thing began really it's a new atheist thing and now since the new atheists are a lot more fashionable than christians are that's that's the order of the day i blame my falling away from the church on just being a punk 13 year old boy but but the second thing i blame is the new atheists they were very popular at the time and i was uh very taken with them chris hitchen he's a funny guy i

thought okay he must be a smart excellent speaker yeah you know incisive witty but obviously he just hates god i mean he makes that very clear so you're all religions are evil because they mislead people and drag people away from you know but you didn't you didn't just say that he doesn't believe in god you said he hates god hates god dawkins obviously hates god why is there evil in the world usually yeah that's what it comes down to right right would it would it just god tolerate all of the evil that is occurring in

the world you know the fact of the matter is there can be there can be no good there can be no pleasure without pain there can be no good without evil okay god knows that there is always the possibility to commit evil free will right right but he has given us free will okay he bequeathed that where his images he is free therefore we are free and he expects us to fight against evil but so stop it from trying to care then given will and the fact that you use these words hate and love very

often when people talk about god it's it's as though it were some academic exercise well does god do i believe in god do i but you're you're you're using verbs that are more active than that hate and love do you think that do you think that our discussion or our understanding of god therefore must be uh active and participatory rather than merely absolutely and furthermore it must be rational as well as faith-based a lot of religionists are fideistic which means they rely completely on faith and say that we can have no knowledge of god wasn't

that nonsense yeah okay you have to know what you got faith in yeah okay how can you invest faith in something that you don't know what it is you need at least an elementary description of it before you can predicate before you can attribute faith to it before you can invest belief in it all right if you invest belief in x but you don't know what x is is that meaningful obviously not so faith and rationality are indelibly coupled okay there's there's just no other way to talk about it yeah as soon as you hear

somebody say well it's entirely a matter of faith and we can believe whatever we want to have faith in whatever we want to that makes no sense at all to me i totally agree with that and it does bother me when religious people speak in that way in modern times it's funny though you mentioned thomas aquinas was there ever a more rational guy in the world than tom the guy wrote to every question in religion he had three objections and then answers to the objections quite irrational we've gone to another aristotle and i mean that

you know just and all these but all of these early christian philosophers are now out of fashion nobody pays attention anymore so no except christians right real real ones not fake ones practicing ones yeah so then i know i've kept all of your time but i don't care darn it you're here in nashville and i've got a lot i'm just fine do you have religious practice uh there is yes uh well let's just put it this way i don't currently attend church um but up until uh several years i started doing like my own kind

of like thing with preaching right so i i decided that i didn't but i was for about 10 15 years i went to a little country church up the road from us right now i live on a road where there used to be three historic churches two of them were burned down arson not not accidental not accidental no and they were historical you know civil war era churches okay but one was left right and it was it was north of us about two and a half miles north of us on route p there so i

attended that church pretty religiously very regularly for a long time now as it happened the last thing that i heard is run by a wonderful lady that actually takes care of most of what goes on there and it's got a good pastor uh right but uh you know i finally decided that okay what i have to do is go out and start talking about these things myself so since then that's what i've been doing i wish you were here on a sunday i could take you to my good latin mass parish here i think you

would like it i was twice baptized to catholic way back when but it's like i say i don't i was i was a kid one of my aunts was a nun aunt sybil right so you know i have some fond memories of what it's like to be a real catholic but i don't think that that kind of catholicism is in vogue it's it's certain it's certainly not invoked yeah when uh young people are searching for meaning as you say you looked for meaning in your life it reminds me of victor frankl right man search for

meaning says search for meaning is man's primary motivator more than sex more than anything else and that's the way it should be yeah but that's not the way it is anymore they just want the money they won't even believe that you're intelligent if you don't have a lot of money right right but people always ask you this why aren't you a billionaire why why aren't i billionaires people i appeal i've seen people billionaires hate my guts see i don't i don't go along with the look they have to give you the opportunity to make money

you need to have connections in order to make money you need to make friends out of people who have a lot of it if you if you had the connections would you have striven to make money not at the expense of truth no i'd have gone after meaning first now i used to think that well it should be possible in theory to go after both then i discovered that that wasn't necessarily true if you go after truth too hard then you're going to make a bad impression on mammon on the people with all the money

yeah and eventually you're going to be canceled out of uh any sort of a comfortable life and isn't there is also just a time issue right i mean if you dedicate yourself to i don't know doing spreadsheets or something you're probably not going to have a ton of time to pursue truth or am i wrong about that am i just underestimating you you're absolutely right you know eventually that's what you become you know we are what we do more or less so you've got to make up your mind what you want to spend your time

doing and it's it's i consider it to be better to seek truth and meaning and god than it is to pursue money now who agrees with me these days not many i'd like to have it all but i i certainly i would like to bring mankind back to the point where we care about those things again because of course then the question is you know if if you if you just focus your life on money just for money's sake just to get stuff you know you're you can't take it with you eventually that's that all

that stuff is going to decline well yes of course it is but a lot of these rich people are into something called transhumanism they don't think that they're going to have to leave so there's no problem with not being able to take it with you because you're not going anywhere you're going to upload your consciousness to a computer you see i've i've heard this it's a very popular idea a lot of my young friends will tell me michael we might not even die we're as though as though every generation in history hasn't had the same

delusion but it's all i i always laugh at it but but very wealthy very powerful ostensibly intelligent people take this seriously we're just going to upload our best intelligence that's an important uh caveat you you don't think we're just going to upload our brains to the cloud or something you know that's what reality already is that's we've already done it self-simulation we've already done it we are living in the display of a s of a simulation a self-simulating universe right and we are going to be uploaded when we're done with this simulation we're going to

be uploaded to the source of all truth meaning and power then depending on the decision that is made by that entity we can be redistributed to another universe a heaven a hell a new creation pardon me a new creation brad the idea of the resurrection of the body right that is correct so before before these uh genius gazillionaires who fancy that they're going to upload their brains to the ibm computer or something before they meet their particular judgment before they shuffle off this mortal coil do you think there's any chance that they're going to figure

out the secret and not have to face death no no way it's like i say soros is probably the best among them and he's way he's far you you know how it is i mean i i guess the hindus had a better way of looking at this you know in chris in christianity there's there's one goal salvation okay in hinduism there are four goals okay you've got kama art the dharma and moksha right and kama is sensual pleasure right and artha is is being able to acquire wealth and power then you've got dharma which is

righteousness and then above dharma you've got moksha which is salvation that's actual union with the absolute or with god okay the people running the world right now all of these people that you just mentioned are stuck in numbers one and two they haven't made it to dharma and they're never going to make it to moksha that's why they want to upload their consciousness to a machine they know that god isn't going to take them back if they continue doing what they're doing all right so they want to displace reality itself by recreating reality in a

mechanical form that then they can control do you think there's any relation between the transhumanist movement and the transgender movement the idea that we're just going to escape our bodies [Music] i do the the idea the idea i think is that you can throw off all constraint you can throw off the constraints of reality you construe the including constraints of gender that's what i think the commonality is and i think these are you know they're anti-teleological both of them i agree but we do have certain constraints you know reality is full of constraints and we're

better off recognizing what they are before i let you go as we sit here in the clouds and some simulation of the clouds here before i let you go people are going to be asking so what do i do what should i do right now assuming we're not going to launch the american or this second american revolution or anything like that what should i do in my own life even even maybe beyond any political questions search for god ask god to establish a personal relationship with you it's available you're attached to god by your soul

okay there's this soul that attaches you to god you can receive the will of god into yourself and to some extent the power of god into yourself but you've got to be receptive if you're not receptive then you're cutting yourself off from god okay and once you do that then you do not share the identity of reality itself and you're done once your physical body expires there is nothing that will carry you because you have denied it and rejected it you follow me that's what people need to do i do i think that's good advice

i'm glad you agree that's good for you it is it's good it's sort of like reaching out and grabbing do this do that search for god that's so this is though to shake the audience uh chris this has been a true pleasure thank you for coming out thank you for making the trek well it's been my pleasure i don't travel very often you know i've told you the reasons for that but i'm glad i made this trip michael thank you chris