From Zero: A Conversation with Mike Shinoda and Emily Armstrong

this is Mike shenoda from Lincoln Park just a few weeks before our big reveal our new singer Emily Armstrong and I sat down to discuss what life had been like for both of us while trying to keep Lincoln Park's return a secret we also talked about Emily joining the band and the creative process behind our new album from zero now you can hear that conversation for yourself enjoy follow rate and review from zero a conversation with Mike shenoda and Emily Armstrong now on Apple podcast Spotify or wherever you listen to podcast C we just finished

the record holy [ __ ] weird it's done it's Master minutes it got it's 32 minutes it's so many it's like years of evolution and work and like figuring [ __ ] outed into a half hour you guys because I came later yeah you know even though 2019 you say that you say that but when you came in like it's it's almost like if it was a painting then it starts with a blank canvas and then like we sketched something and we erased it we sketched something and we erased it and did that and like

it slowly started to be like oh maybe this part's good maybe that part's good we did that for a very long time and then we started to go that's it and that's when you showed up is like we started inviting you in you started singing on things and everyone went yo that's like that's amazing like what is that and then it it wasn't immediately like what was the first what were the first things you sang on do you know like in the new batch of stuff unshatter was one an early one unshatter yep that was

I think the first one I know 2019 we did vertigo we also did a couple of other demos they you know they didn't make it they weren't like part of this record but they were really good experiments I remember making that one more mellow one with you and that I really liked that one because it told me a lot about like your more melodic kind of singing and that when the two it was just the two of us writing and was like oh she she's really good with Melody she's like very versatile and it always

that just stuck with me and then I didn't see you for like I told you at the time I was like this whole thing is going to be very slow like I don't nobody's ready to do anything yet there's it's almost like I mention it and it's like there's an element of like I feel like people are like uncomfortable I didn't say that to you but that's how I felt I felt like I would say it to them like so like do you guys want to get together or what and I wasn't saying that I

wanted to I was just testing yeah the water and they were like yeah and then they wouldn't call back or wouldn't text back and I was like okay we're not ready for any of that and then slowly like Joe was the first one to hit me up and be like let's put some dates on the calendar like let's get together and I was okay then I said it to Dave and Dave was like yes let's do it it was almost like y y y we made some things and then they made more things and made

more things there was all this work that went into like establishing a foundation like a Baseline and none of it was like keeper none of it was stuff that was going to make an album but it was all stuff we needed to do in order to get to the first in order to get to step one took years of work to get to like okay now we're going to start yeah I could totally see that now I could totally see that now and you were in that's when you were in the mix at that step

one but you weren't like the singer you were just like singing on a couple things I remember listening to a lot of the music and just being like okay it's kind of all over the place it was I I was kind of like where would this like what are these doing but then like but I understand too like having been in a band for so long I'm like there's just so many different directions where this could go right so that's still had I still had like that like question mark of just being like wow this

is actually a very exciting place to be in yeah because we were experimenting a lot yeah so I didn't have a full understanding either you know what I mean so there was like not really much I could question it was just kind of like they're figuring it out and the best thing you could do for a band is just let let them figure it out once we got closer once everybody everybody got to know each other a lot better and got more comfortable you then everybody was really more open about like H like giving their

opinions and throwing in ideas and when we started to do that with Colin when we started to do that with you and then we then we started to do it with everybody together it wasn't like it happened overnight it was like it slowly started to happen more and more and everybody like when you weren't in the room Dave and Joe would say to me like that was really good like I loved the vibe of what we did the other day even if the song wasn't the best song it was really fun to do I know

that we're going to write a good song that's better than the one we just did and that's what we started doing we haven't yeah we just haven't done it yet but it's going to happen cuz it's too fun yeah we're having a good time that's what you know when it starts like when you start doing it you're like wait this wasn't like a coincidence it's not like a chore and then you start doing it and you're like wait a minute like this actually sounds like how can we push it more it's like when the Sparks

start to become a fire instead of dying out all the time you know and it's and that's another thing up in a band yeah it's like you you try to spark you try to make these these moments and a lot of them die a lot of them die down and it's [ __ ] frustrating you know but once it happens when that certain elements come together it's like oh okay yeah and then it just starts growing and you're like how do we how do we manage this like okay cool let's let's just okay and it

just takes a life of its own you know and that's what's so exciting and that's kind there's like a momentum yeah we were already like pretty deep into the album and we made casualty [ __ ] yeah you weren't I mean we didn't want to burden you or Colin with what was going on on our side but on our side like Brad was was hesitant he was like a little resistant and I think it was just like all of the baggage of everything was hard and we knew that and we kept saying to him gently

like the door is so super open to you we would love to have you on board like we benefit from like your point of view and we have concerns like our Dynamic that we've been working with like with the three of us and Emily Colin is so good and adding anybody at all might change that so like let just come in and see it and I think you'll like it and he did and he gave it a chance and one of the first things he was saying is like I think we could write something heavier

like way heavier and we did casualty and you came with those lines in the chorus you came up with that with the let me out when you said let me out I was like [ __ ] what is that that sounds so like intense yeah it was so intense yeah it's fun I mean cuz yeah I mean the way that that I initially would write cuz we we were were a live band yeah dead Sarah like we wrote in a room together that's how we I know that so a lot of the [ __ ]

would happen from and you probably noticed this about me too now it's like I I live is like where I come alive but like it's like you enjoy you enjoy performing like you want to sing yeah so when there's something that's there that's just like very heavy or like I I'll just yeah you know you have a good way I said this you you you've got a really good way of turning off your mental filter and just letting stuff pop out and you get your like you get embarrassed by it but then you also just

continue to do it which is great that's ideal like for me on the other side of that like I don't have as much of that I've got I've got a different version of it when I write so when I'm in the room with somebody and i' I've there are a lot of different people I've known who who I've worked with who who have that John Green is really good at that uh Jake is actually Jake Tor is also really good at that like they'll sit and they'll just like stuff will just come out and pop

out and pop out and pop out and you do that in a different way that's a little Wilder and so when it hits it's like oh like there's nothing like it I it's like you say you you'll say things or sing things that I wouldn't I would never logically do I know I know and I love that like it works really well cuz we need I felt like that's a that was like for me it was a missing component I don't do that naturally yeah I wouldn't be able to live in like that wild place

without some somebody like like you you have this like it's so solid everything revolve like revolves in in a good way like revolves around like what you put there it's so confident and it's so good and it's easy for me to get wild around that because I know at some point I'm able to be you know Wild and Free because I know that you guys are so good at a structure there's a structure it's almost like we have like we give you a safety net so safety we give you a safety net and you can

go wild and maybe you won't need that's I think the way I I my in my brain like the metaphor is like is like we'll just we'll provide like a structure like a safety net under you and then you can go crazy and you may not need the safety net at all like you may just be able to just do your thing and whatever but but in the event that it starts going off the rails like we got this like we got you it's all good and I've not I just i' yeah i' it's so

nice and that's one thing one of the arcs that I found in this process of being like and that get I get more and more comfortable like and I'm like what about this melody and you'd be like yeah like that's cool and then you just finish it into something that's so brilliant I'm like yeah that I felt it's funny you say that cuz I felt this same way about Colin too cuz he and I like there are times when I just feel like we share a brain like he ever since I met him I remember

coming home from the first session where I worked with Colin um like 2021 is I came home and I said to my wife like this guy that I met is just like he he and I have like a real good chemistry I don't know I don't know if like I don't mean that on like a friend level cuz I don't know him yet but I know that on a creative level for sure cuz we we do the same things like we do we have similar skill sets we have similar like taste and so there's a

lot of like in good comedy there's yes and yes and right it was always with him it was yes and and I was like really from the moment I met that guy I was like this guy is like somebody I want to spend more time with and get to know cuz I I feel like we have a good thing going and you guys learn a lot from each other which is so great yeah yeah I that's that's part of the thing about you and Colin like that's so I don't know refreshing isn't the word but

it's almost like like like one of the things that I think the guys appreciate is you're you're young you're you're younger than us by enough that your worldview and your perspective on on things and on music like on the world in general but also in music in particular because you're younger you've got a different perspective but you're old enough that you've got experience right so it's like because I have written with some young people who are in their like younger 20s MH and they've got the first part but they don't have the second part the

second part they're just like they just have been doing it for like five years four years whatever and it's not it's not there yet and you guys don't have that you guys have been around long enough that you you know you've experienced some things that work well and some things that don't yeah a lot a lot of that a lot of things that what are some things what are when when I when when you say like when you've experienced things that don't work what comes to mind I mean I don't want you to throw anybody

under the bus but but like what I wish I just listened to my intuition more and was able to just be like no same that's what I wish I did like yeah I relate to that when I look back I'm like like things that I thought like oh that seems a little weird I'm just going to go with it I'm just going to listen to this other person this other person maybe they know better than me about what I should be doing yeah and they're experienced in this even when I say it out loud it

sounds stupid right but that's what you do you go oh well that person from the label or that person from the this producer or this other I don't know whatever they've got a different experience they've got success in another way yeah and I don't know about that so maybe they're right and then you look back at it later and you go no I knew I knew that wasn't something I should do and I unfortunately gave a lot of trust to people and I should be a lot more distrusting now but I still you're not though

you're not I think you're smart though I think one thing that's that like to give you what does it say oh yeah learn no you I don't buy that at all I don't buy that at all because you're very you're the right amount of trusting like you're you're Discerning you like look at things carefully you don't just like even with us there are times when you've been like look it's your band you guys know best I'll go along with that you still know I've noticed you still know when to say hey I no disrespect I

know this is your band you guys know and it's your decision at the end of the day but I have an opinion and yeah y yeah like every time I can think of that you've done that it's been the right thing to say like you've always come in at the right moment and said hey have you thought about I know you all think this but like have you thought about this other perspective and it's it's always been a valuable contribution yeah I I appreciate that I mean I I try to be as uh objective as

possible I and that's where I like to be you know if there's something I could say that could help with a bigger picture of things it's just something that I've done for a while that I love to do even in in general just like even with friends of mine that I talk to and stuff like I know this is going on right now but the bigger picture and it helps it it helps me too aren't don't you have like a bunch of like family and friends who don't know still or have you told everybody at

this point not everybody no there's like friends I hang out with it but still don't know on weekends you remember when we had that conversation here's what you said you said to me I'm afraid to hang out with my friends yeah yeah because I'm afraid I'm going to like slip Y and say something about Lincoln Park yep so I have been avoiding that yeah you were yeah so I have like I I mean I've been invited to a lot of things like birthdays and stuff like that and I'm just like and then I go in

my head I'm like so I'm going to go and hang out have a couple drinks and then going to ask what I'm doing and then I'm going to feel weird by saying like yeah I'm just rehearsing and then it feels weird to just say like yeah rehearsing like so how's dead Sarah doing like you guys writing something like and then I just talk myself out of going anywhere I don't want to have these fake conversations where I can't say everything and I'm so happy and I don't want to pretend that I'm not as happy and

so I just talk myself out of it and I just stay here dude I had a similar I had a similar thing recently with a friend who I went to dinner with these two guys and my friend was like Mike you're like you look great dude what is going on with you like you're in such a good mood everything must be what's happening right now like he smelled it on me cuz he didn't know anything but he just knew me well enough that he was like something's happening and you're in such a good mood and

I was like okay I'm going to tell you a thing but like you can't tell anybody like I'm stoked right now like it is so it is like things are so good and it's been it's been happening over years so we've been like it feels like we've been keeping a crazy secret for a really long time yeah yeah it's yeah I I mean I've told people like it got to a point and they're like who is she I'm like no it's not I'm like it's they thought it was a relationship yeah like that's funny you

know it's always love that so I'm like it's like uh I don't know I'm like I'm so inspired like my life just feels like something it's it's like oh it's like something Big's happening I can't tell anybody and it always ends to that like right it's going to be really fun and then they kind of want to pry a little bit and I want to tell them so then I'm just like okay that's it no no more no more but is it like rock Emily is it like is it what what you do and I'm

like yes it is and I'm like oh my God I feel like I've totally given it away already and I haven't at all um but I've had a couple people that definitely figured like do you have you had friends who figured it out kind of a little bit and then I just tell them i' would slip and just be like tell them don't [ __ ] to anybody oh my God that's so [ __ ] cool and then you know and then all of a sudden I get like a text from a random friend and

being like I just found out and I'm like hm wonder how you found and so now I'm just like even like with the show that we're do like the opening does that make you mad that people are like gossiping yeah and and then I just can't write them back I don't get mad I I on your behalf I'm not mad I feel like it's natural and like we just I told it's like management was like yeah we have to go out and talk to other managers because you need openers right like you need to play

with other bands and we're setting up things so we have to talk to people and so people are going to there's going to be chatter yeah yeah just is that okay like what do you want us to do and I was like as long as it doesn't get out like in a way that's like definitive if it's gossip smart I I don't know if it's smart it's a guess I don't know I just think if it's gossip it's okay that's what I mean if it's fact it feels not as good yeah but we also can't

control it like we have to do we're putting out a record we're putting out songs we're putting out you know eventually selling tickets to shows and it's inevitable like a little bit ago Joe was like don't worry about it if it happens it happens it's so close to the Finish Line like the fact that we've got it this far is pretty [ __ ] pretty crazy yeah we're a little over a week away from the teaser that like timer teaser thing happening it's like a week and a half away oh my God yeah so like

I could see my heart rate is it liter really going up no it went down why did it go down cuz you're so chill I do my breath it's weird like we're going to we keep having these moments what was what was for you what are the mo what were the most surreal moments in the last year where you went home and you like were like wow what the [ __ ] I always remember when we were in the studio writing I don't know what song it was we were writing I think breathing on water

maybe I don't know um we're working on something and you're like oh Emily come come like we're just going to talk to you really quick yeah so we all went into a room who was it was it me and you and Dave and Joe and Joe yeah yeah and it was just like hey so we're going to be booking some shows next year and uh we think you you did a great job with the old stuff and we love what we've been doing so we just want to continue this and I was just like okay

your reaction was really funny cuz your reaction was like that I was like oh okay well like it was not it was not you stayed so cool it was like we were asking you like are you busy next are you busy next Thursday to like go to dinner you're like yeah yeah I can do that well I was trying to be on your guys's level like how cool you guys were just asking me dude that's amazing so it's like you played it very cool if I was just like so over the top I would feel

like it just would have been a little cringe so I was just like yeah I mean I will give you guys everything and you guys were very really sweet in just being like how does dead Sarah think about it like you were just like that was like the first thing that you were just like before we get to this topic of something that we think is going to be great what what is the situation with that and I was just like yeah I've already talked to them yeah I respect the fact that you know a

band is a band like you you go through a lot together and I do did want to make sure that like you're at a place a transitional kind of moment um and you said you were I felt like I felt I felt like when when we I was very nervous excited and nervous to like talk to you about it because you know you could be like no it's not a good fit so I was like well that would suck because I think that you'd be amazing in the band and I didn't want to [ __

] it up by like present presenting it wrong or whatever um I mean it was bold of you to be like cuz I never sang any of the old songs you guys like no we think you could do it okay here's the thing about me I think well you're right I can do I think I've got a pretty good imagination you do when it comes to when it comes to what a sound can be like absolutely that's why when I first worked with you I was like I already could imagine you doing the stuff that

we ended up doing and in fact to your credit you were better than I imagine so that's like it was incredible for me I was like dude this is I can't believe how good that like when we were writing different things or you were singing on things even even now while we're like working out the live songs and this the whole set it's like it's better than I thought it was going to be so yeah yeah um good job oh but we were saying um we were saying what were were there any other okay so

the when we when we said to you hey do you want to you know do you want to come on tour and sing for the band yeah I know we said it a weird way that was it was like one show that was like rocking Rio was like maybe wanting to do something oh maybe we were going to do rock and real that's right and it was that didn't end up working out yeah because they wanted to announce right earlier they had to announce early and we couldn't do that so it was that and I

was like yeah yeah if you want me you played it super cool yeah and then you went home and you weren't super cool or you stayed super cool well then we had to go straight back into recording right after that and so I was just sitting in the [ __ ] rehearsal room I mean in in the Stu in your studio like okay trying to just like put it away and just like okay let's just continue writing because and so you can imagine like me just trying to like separate that from what you guys just

asked me to do and then continue to write so once we left out once who left the studio that's when I was just like oh my [ __ ] god like I was allowed to just like throw myself into this new you know yeah like processing yeah and it was like I stepped into like a Disney World like it was a [ __ ] full of magic and full of opportunity and everything you could possibly imagine was it in the car did you feel like that in the car yeah as soon as you got in

the car to drive home you felt that way oh my God yeah I was just like freaking out I was like I don't even remember getting home I don't remember that like I I was floating for 3 days like I don't remember touching the ground like that's did you talk to anybody no I mean one person who' you talk to I talked to um uh I call her mama Shay Shay she's she's just always been like who is that I know we talked about that who is that we just became really good friends and she's

always been so like so when did you call when did you call her you call her that night but we left late so she was asleep so I was just like I texted and I said I have some [ __ ] news for you and she's like no and then in the morning whatever she texted she's like no [ __ ] way like she knew cuz she just had some she was somebody that I like kind of talked to about it and so she was like oh my God oh my God oh my God [

__ ] call me as soon as you wake up and then I called and I talked to her and she was just like I [ __ ] knew it I knew it but but after that I was just like okay I need to be careful in who I tell like I don't know like I just was like I need to just be in this moment and just absolutely enjoy it and it lasted like that like high was three days you know and and then I was just like how do I tell my mom how do

I tell blah like how how should I tell like and I was like yeah don't even worry about it just just live it like there's like ways I was just like kind of fun to like tell them like oh like I don't know do I go get coffee do I do it like over the phone do I do you know you had I remember you said later even you weren't comfortable saying like I'm singing for the band like I'm the singer of the band that didn't it took months it was months later we had a

conversation where you were avoiding using those words and I call I think I called you out and I was like why are you not saying that like you're our singer and you're like that sounds so weird that was your reaction was like that sounds weird and I'm like but that's what it is yeah yeah absolutely but it was also too the like to go back to the the point of being like I don't want people to find out oh you were nervous about people finding out yeah so yes in my head this is what I'm

doing and and it's also like a mind shift of being a singer for 20 years in another band and having to like yeah I'm a singer like it's like an identity you know it's like oh that's a great Point that's really interesting cuz I had the same all of us all of us had the same experience in a different on the different sides of it right like Joe and Dave and I Joe and Dave and Brad and I experienced like redefining Lincoln Park in our brains and we're still re we're still experiencing that like we

there have been all kinds of moments where we've the reality of what's happening right now hits us like oh [ __ ] we just did a photo shoot together that's what we look like together in a in a really nice picture I've we've never seen that before yeah oh we gotten we got on stage together at this practice like that's what we look like that's what it feels like you and me the other day we jumped on that little box together yesterday and did that part of that song together that's the first time we've done

that yeah and it felt I was like for a second I was like oh this is so [ __ ] weird yeah and then I was like but it's great like it's just uncomfortable cuz it's new yeah but we're going to have to get used to it right and it was a wobbly thing too and the box was wobbly yeah I thought we were going to it was was afraid I was going to knock you over or you going to knock me over are there any times when you were like I don't I like I'm

not sure about this or you doubted you doubted the situation or you doubted yourself absolutely there's because it's fear you know it's it's it's such a big change that there was a moment where I was just like oh my God oh my God it comes with all of the great things you know it's like when change happens it's not necessarily all always you have to look at every aspect yeah right it's not easy no and there was a moment where I was just like panicking a little bit just being like Oh my God oh my

God how people see me you know and not me being who I am but it's mostly about like it's like it's like your Wikipedia page is going to change yeah and it's just like oh my God and there's going to be more eyes on me and it's like and it just kind of happened it was like a flood of these type of it is like goes back to the identity thing where it's like my identity is changing you know and are you ready for it Emily are you [ __ ] up like do you you

want to be this person are you are you able to fill these shoes are you able to be this person and that's a time where I feel like as an artist people back down yeah and they go I don't want that I don't want that like I just want to be this artist I just want to be this I want to be that and that's like a moment where I was like oh my God like that's the fear base that happens that makes you not it's the devil on the shoulder you know that's like don't

don't don't like don't grow as an artist don't do that like and you do the opposite like that's what I've learned like do the opposite of that fear thing because it's all good then why is this happening it's it's a it's a highrisk high reward kind of thing but it's also like people talk about that as an inspirational idea but it's also high risk High failure too like it's em it's more embarrassing if it doesn't work right so like that's the part that's actually scary exactly is like I'm going to I'm going to I'm going

to fail in front of the class I'm not going to fail at home in my room like everyone's going to see me fail yeah um yeah and you got to have guts man like that's I definitely appreciate the amount of Courage that it takes to say like yeah I'm going to try I'm going to take that on like I I can do that yeah like what Chester's done and what the fans love about it and it's like here I'm stepping into this role so there's moments of just being like oh my [ __ ] god

Emily what are you doing yeah we've talked about like the fact that yeah we know that not everyone is going to like everything every time we do anything you every time dead Sarah did anything any time Lincoln Parks said anything anytime any artist does anything people will hate some part of it right and that's like you as an artist you have to be okay with that it's not it's not for those people and by the way some of them come around like some of my favorite albums ever were ones that I hated when I heard

it the first time I know and then like a few weeks or a month later I was like wait a minute I know this is actually brilliant some bands that I just like [ __ ] despised I'm just like turn up this is so good actually so good Deep dive now I'm like oh my God find a whole new world oh my God but sometimes for me it takes that so I understand that but but you've you've reinforced it with me many times and this helps and this is the thing this is like the safety

net where it's like if I have those moments just communicate it and it's like anytime I do it just resolves so fast yeah and that's the thing it makes it less scary yeah and that's what's so great to have this as well like to be in this group it's like I've noticed how much you guys carry each other and it's so important to me in in any band and I I know how important that is in a band yeah you have to have that like trust each other I think on on the in the other

side like the the trust and the and the helping each other out like one of the things that that I see from you and from Colin is that you guys have earned everybody's trust really consistently like you come to the table so strong whenever we've done that like just like is it an example that's fresh in my brain like with the live show Colin he's become like a musical director in a sense where me and him like I we'll be like I'll be like this is what I how I want to see these things flowing

together like what do you think and he'll throw ideas in and the next thing I know he's like built half of it in the computer and like gone to all the texts and been like okay hey make sure you're doing this and he goes to Alex make sure you're doing this like everything yeah it's so helpful and it's really yeah you realize you can rely on each other it's a great feeling absolutely and Colin and I have had our own discussions like throughout the whole process like we'll sit and we'll have like our back to

back and be like this and this and this like cuz we're we were we're figuring it out together totally we got to rehearse like he kind of like oh yeah does the whip a little bit to like get everybody and I was like no dude no seriously I heard some blah blah blah talking about it and we really like how you're doing that so please go like trying to reinforce it in him I'm like it's a really good thing and I know that as a band there's always has to be that some person that's just

like taking it and you have to have to give them that like you're doing [ __ ] great please keep going and he is taken that to a place where I'm just like holy [ __ ] he's really good at it I don't even know half the [ __ ] that you're doing like I don't even know how you're doing it and being the drummer that you are you know and like no this harmony this thing I'm like yeah you are over qualified sir no but like he is so good at what he does and

so humble about it you remember meeting Dave for the first time kind of weird right like CU I don't know when you met Dave might have been was at the studio you came you did come to um Neptune or whatever tune to that that was back in like 2019 that's where I put the whole band you met everybody at that point right easy done next question I was wondering like did you get like when did you get like an impression about Dave do you remember like being like Oh that guy that's what that guy does

sounds like bandad for sure he's like bandad yeah Dave's a bandad yeah I never thought about it that way he's like very Cal very dud you know what's crazy is how you and Colin being like new to the band and the dynamic like you guys just see things about the band that you're like oh yeah like band dad like Colin will say things that I'm like oh that's W how that he said something the other day he's like yeah like Brad is like so good at the smallest details and Joe is so good at the

wildest broadest things it's like here's the biggest idea you could have here's the like smallest detail that you need to cover and I went yeah dude I that's been in front of my face for 20 years and I have never I've never described it so these are discussions that we always like Colin and I had all the time amazing I'm not going to notice something like that about somebody that I've known since a college I don't know yeah right absolutely absolutely and I love to see like Chemistry Between people like it's my favorite like I

love it I I I oh yeah you love people watching yeah I love I love it and that's why I love being in a band I love chemistry I love getting along with people and especially um Dave and Joe just the funniest [ __ ] people so so crazy they're so [ __ ] funny to me oh yeah and Brad When Brad started like hanging out more you guys were just like oh wow like he's way funnier than I thought he was I remember both of you saying that but like also funny in ways that

like he's doesn't real he's funny that's also like there's times when he's trying to be funny which that are funny but then when he's not trying to those part those those signs are actually even funnier to me yeah but you just have to look at you or just look at somebody that guy does not know how weird that is to say anything he used to be it used to be I think a long time ago you could point that out and he'd be uncomfortable cuz he knows it's weird but now he embraced it yeah now

he's super comfortable in his skin and you're like dude that's that was weird what you just said he's like like oh yeah like it gets way funnier because he's in on the joke yep we're all super yeah weird it's artists yeah arst weird like you guys already know that I have to tell people when I'm super excited because I don't just jump up and down and get super excited I have to like tell I have to say to somebody like hey this I I'm a 10 out of 10 excited right now just FYI I have

to say the words oh I love that yeah but you know that like there are times when you can tell I'm excited but there are other times when you can't you're like I'm analyzing your eyes will get big and just kind of like slow you do a slow turn like this and your eyes get big like and that's what I know I'm like okay you're to go back like oh my God or you'll just smile from ear to ear like massive like okay Mike what you think kid what's going on I have an I have

an idea or a thing that I like big idea that you have yeah yeah yeah um what are you most excited about coming up like what's in a in a week in a month in a year whatever anything that comes to mind like what's shows shows yeah traveling together I love that it's like one of my favorite like I like Studio but I'm way more like wanting to be out like like doing things one of the things that stuck out to me is like you were you wanted to get on the microphone so bad like

you were like it was like a race horse that was have the thing in front of them and it just wants to go and it's the second we let it go like off right just as fast as you could go and you were trying to get on the microphone and sing in the in the and when we're in this studio him like I feel like that is such a valuable thing to have when it comes to like being a being a touring band like you got to love to be to do it like you got

to love to get out there on the stage and do it and not for like this not for with some people they love it because they love to feel like they're important mhm yeah right that's different than you like some people want to get up there because they want the attention because they have like a [ __ ] hole inside them that they think it it fills you don't yeah that's not your goal like you just want to do it you there's something exciting when I am on stage I'm not thinking about the words I'm

not thinking about what I'm saying or singing I'm thinking about the connection yeah there's like an energy connection between me and whoever is there that I'm way more focused on and you've got the same thing happening yeah and when it gets better and better like as like live as we're practicing practicing and like the new songs and it's all coming together that's where it gets really exciting too I want to throw that out like I want to you know and I want to come back and I want to go back back and forth and it's

so it is back and forth It's a two-way like energy exchange yeah and I love that that's the best I [ __ ] love it yeah I think I'm I'm the same I the other thing I'm excited for is for people to hear the whole record yes when they hear the whole album and they go because there's I feel like there's so much it's like so three-dimensional like there's there's like so much variety on even though it's only 10 songs there's so much variety there's in terms of like types of songs and energy and emotions

but it's also like the there's the loud and the quiet and then there's also like the point in time almost like there's stuff on it that feels very to me very like futuristic stuff on it that feels very classic yeah like classic to the to not just our band but just like stuff I've always loved listening to um yeah the same yeah yeah and when they hear that they're going to be like get all those emotions it's very authentic to me the album it's very very authentic and that's like very high on my like what

I like to accomplish in music you know and um I mean there's so many other things that this album just checks off for me like you're saying it's very it's yeah it's like deep it's like there's so much to it there's so much restraint that we put in to like getting the songs where they were and then like choosing this few songs like we could have put out more songs but yeah like the idea of choosing this few to start felt really like it was a tough it hard to do a mature decision very very

mature decision any any amount of years younger and we wouldn't have been able to say that we would have been like five years ago we would like put all the songs on we want to put 30 songs out I could see that I could see that yeah I'm not a put every song out kind of person but I am mo more songs longer set right kind of person and I think Brad is a fewer songs shorter set kind of person I don't think that I know that that's a fact okay right so and then everybody

else sits on different places on the Spectrum I may not even be the furthest over on that I'm very excited for people to hear and you mentioned that it like the release is actually going to come sooner possibly yeah we kept exced yeah we kept thinking it was going to be it was like oh it's going to be early next year and then it was like and then it was going to be December now it's going to be November new information for you God bless as of add those three songs into the set because we

might play well it was just the ideas that we're going to be allowed to like cuz the music's going to come out and so now we can add we can add songs cuz that's actually that's the other thing I'm excited for yeah the merging of the two like we get to play the new songs yeah not just emptiness machine emptiness yeah emptiness machine and I just want to do yeah I mean over each other is cool but like overflow come on you really want to do overflow of course yeah it's such a cool just like

on the album it's like it's a standout to me and yeah it expands the album right in a in like a really cool way I think it's going to do that live too to I mean there's always one song that's the long that took the longest the most amount of tries to get to it and overflow was the one and rewrote the track so many times rewrote the chorus so many times I'm sorry to you you had to sing it so many different versions I was like yeah we got a new version sing this what

was there ever a moment with overflow where you're like I'm going to sing this but you're not going to keep it like you're going to write a new chorus tomorrow I think when it was being written I was just like cool I'm just going to go in there and sing it but as I was singing it I was like oh wait this is really cool like I felt the I felt it like sometimes it doesn't come together until I I have to own it you know I mean like not just hear it and be like

so the final version felt the most and then when I heard it back like once you did your magic to it in [ __ ] two seconds I don't know how you do that but and then I hear it back and I'm like oh [ __ ] like I was saying like I'm like wait I could sing how did you make me do that mic [ __ ] [ __ ] yeah I can make anybody sound good even Emily I'm really good at it really good at producing vocals oh yeah I just can't wait for

people to just hear how gra a [ __ ] dude I have to say look look I I said like I had a with with chester I had a another human being that I could I could feed him ideas and he could bring him to life like nobody else like it was an amazing and I didn't know any better I I hadn't had so much experience with anybody else right so I was just like oh this is just what it's like to have a really good singer that you can like say hey what about this

like here's an idea and they try it then you both go high five like that's great when I started working with other people I realized that it's harder to find that's unusual like oh they're really good at singing and I think I know how to write a vocal yeah and then we get together and we do it and everybody's good at what they do there's other people in the room everybody's good at what they do and yet the thing we made is like it's good it's fine it's like a it's a B+ and I went

like in the beginning like anybody who writes a song you like the next the as you're writing it you love it yeah and then the next day or a couple days later you go oh it's like it's got a lot of problems like there's something missing I don't know what's missing yeah yeah right mhm yep so you start to realize over like I should say I started to realize over time there's something else there's like an an unknown yeah thing that you can't you can't quantify it you can't measure it you can't plan it it

just it's either there or it's not yep and that's the thing that was the thing that we ended up being like looking for y more than anything that I think we finally now we've got it yeah when you find it it's yeah it's that's what I love about bands and working with with mus when it works well when it's there's nothing like it there's nothing like it and I feel like I've always looking for it like my whole life like that's all I've really worked towards yeah that's why I knew when starting to sing and

work with you guys I was like oh [ __ ] yeah I felt like I felt like oh I can I can give her a vocal idea I can whether it's done or it's totally not done yeah I can give you something and we're going to get we're going to like get somewhere you know and there's going to be that un unknown factor is like somehow it's like there yeah and I will struggle if I don't get it I just I have to you are very driven yeah about it very bullish you beat yourself up

about it God yeah but and I to realize sometimes like oh this is not going to work like just rewrite and then rewr yeah sometimes it's not you sometimes me sometimes it's the part yeah but and other times you got to take a other times you got to get a good night's sleep and come back yeah yeah just like anybody anybody we're all human yeah to be honest like when I left rehearsal yesterday I was like crying from like and just in the car and this sounds so stupid coming out were you really yeah I

was like and I didn't it just like hits me at random times like I didn't expect it I was like driving I was just like oh my God I feel so good I was like oh my God driving home and I was like really yeah I just like felt so like when everything just like it's like time stops almost it's like this like moment where it's like I get so emotional and it's like it's very at very random times and it just it happened yesterday as I was driving home like I was just kind of

like it's like any other day any other like I was very tired you know I pushed myself all day like we had which is great that performance yesterday was the closest thing to a show that we've had we we no Callin too we we worked hard yesterday and the lights were on the way they were for the first time and I think that's probably what it felt like show that that like little thing where it was like oh my God oh my God like I am so happy I'm so happy and it's like I think

it's just this moment of like when you just have that like autopilot moment like you're away from everybody it's like and it there's something that that just like your guard go down but it's not even like my guards were up but it's just like a moment to process what had happened yeah you know and um it's usually in my car cuz I'm from La that's yeah there was like the sun was down from people from like like New York don't understand no no cuz they're on the they're not you imagine being on the subway and

having that happen you just like start crying that happens like with people all around you like are no cuz that's why nobody asks if you're okay cuz they're like we see this [ __ ] all the time like leave that girl alone who knows what's going on crying on a subway subway for sure yeah but it's it happens in the car um in LA but um yeah it was like oh my God summer I was like I realized like oh it is summer like like it it was like I had like a whole thing and

it was just what does that mean what do you mean about summer like like I was like oh it is summertime like I didn't real realiz the time because it's like it's Lincoln Park time for me it's like you've been in the yeah you know it's like we're in a studio we're in rehearsal we're in this we like I haven't really participated in like it's summer we're going to go on vacation it's like I could be happier yeah yeah it's a secret well no that's real cuz you've been yeah yeah shut you've been intentionally shutting

out all that other stuff that you would normally be doing yeah and but I was looking at it in a way where I was like God like I don't care that it's so like I don't there's nothing else that matters like this this is what makes me happy like it could be any time of the year and I was just like I don't know I'm trying not to cry right now but but yeah it was a [ __ ] moment like I was driving home [Music] and it's like summer who car like I don't know

it was just like maybe I was like this is what I want a summer to be you know driving home and it was beautiful outside and was inside all day just jumping around and it was like getting close to having that live performance you know and I couldn't I was just like I couldn't be any happier and that I was like I'm on my [ __ ] path you know and yeah and yeah and so I had to like park my car and I went on a little walk just like process a little bit more

of it and then parked my car here like before I even got up here like I just like when I got home and I went a little walk yeah and came back I think that being vulnerable and talking about those things like is the best thing you can do it's the best thing you can do I just like it's so beautiful I relate to it so much we're all we all feel that way it's just so surreal going through this process because it's not it's the it nobody would nobody else will understand like all we

can do is just like give them a piece of it like I feel I feel like it feels so good like I want other people to feel it too yeah like our band has been around for a long time we've experienced all these things and you would think that we've experienced like everything right like but that's not the case at all we're this whole thing like there have been so many moments in the last few years that it's so new and so different in every way like in bad things good things anxiety weird things uncomfortable

all of that [ __ ] like it's just constantly because everything is so some things are dramatically different other things are so slightly different and both versions can be just like wow yeah like that experience I had last night like it makes it feel so much greater like it feels you're like what a drug you know what I mean like having everything come together like that is so powerful it's such a feeling that that's what I live for that's what I live for like those moments you know where it's like it just feels so right

like you put yourself in so many position like situations in your life and you work so hard and sometimes it's not necessarily about like you know and I hate to sound redundant but like the destination but it's more about those moments where you feel so free and you feel so happy and you feel like everything is exactly where it needs to be that you just you can't help it but just like I just C like C like it's like you just have to allow yourself to to take it just like as you take all the

[ __ ] [ __ ] you know it's like you have to process it you know it's like I [ __ ] earned this feeling like I've you know you did yeah you totally did you worked you at least not even speaking to like before we met you which that is its own like like body of work and amount of effort yeah yeah but from just the last couple years the amount of like effort has been like from from you and from everybody I think everybody is like it's weird versions of effort too because it's

like not always like just showing up or like being somewhere for a few hours or clearing your schedule to come in and do do work to record something it's not that it's like sometimes the effort is like I was noticing like on my side sometimes the effort is somebody said something and I'm frustrated like they like I don't I I'm upset and my effort has to be look at yourself are you being unreasonable are you being is this an ego thing is this a thing do you just think you're right and think they're wrong like

what what and I have to do the work of like being honest about it or like figuring out how to like navigate yeah right and that's usually that that's usually the work of like you know me and Joe and Brad and Dave with each other is we've got all of this history know each other so well it's like brothers who like they know where all everybody's buttons are and you can push them and in our case no I don't think anybody's doing it on purpose I think it's accidental so like somebody will do something you're

like bro that's going to be I know exactly what he's going to say I know exactly what he's going to do and the one of the magical like you were talking about you didn't use this word but I heard it being like gratitude right you're just like so you're very present right now and you're like just living in the moment and for me my version of that is that the dynamic of of like everybody in the band but especially the those of us that have the most history together the dynamic is so good yeah it's

really good like it's like it's it's easily to me it's easily the best culture we've had and that's not I'm not saying that as a knock on the on the old lineup I'm saying that as a specifically about the growth of of Brad and Joe and Dave and me like everybody is like just in a really good place and part of that is maybe just part of that is maybe gratitude for being able to do it again like oh [ __ ] like this what's the what's your favorite actually I'm going to use this with

Zane um I thought of this thing the other day uh it is basically the idea of like what's your favorite thing to do in the world and now imagine you get that taken away okay you can't do it it's gone and then living in that for a while and then coming back later and being like okay guess what you can have it back that's a [ __ ] crazy feeling it's a it's that's the crazy that's the part for us that that we have the most gratitude for is like oh it it's not gone like

we get to do it again yeah that's [ __ ] awesome yeah that's incredible it didn't almost and I don't mean to be selfish and take away from that because that's so [ __ ] amazing I almost feel the same way wow you know because it's like wait what's your version of it with dead Sarah it's like we've had success way long ago and we've been chasing it for so long and it got to a point where it just kind of like like I told you like our last album we're like we're going to do

everything we possibly can right I didn't know what was going to happen after that right you you and you tried you tried everything you worked really hard and I worked with other people I was like doing a solo thing I was like what do I want to do and I was like I want to be in a band like it's always comes back to I really just love being in a band and that's what I want to do like more than anything and I feel like that's my position that's what I've been working on for

so long yeah I can't imagine you doing anything else exactly so it's just like [ __ ] like like and then this happened I was like oh my God you know what I mean like I get to do this again but in a way that's like my wildest dreams part of it is like part of that is just that we we're Believers like we not in and we're like Discerning like we're picky as [ __ ] yeah I know we're so picky and then we were like and we were like yep yeah Emily's got this

like you are the you are the one and that's another thing too with the Panic thing like it it goes with that same facet like of me being like did you ever have like the like scaries of like what are you doing like yeah you see this happen a lot with other people like oh my God this person got this role this person got this like imagine how they feel imagine how they feel that's amazing and you're all I mean I am usually like and I've seen people and I've been friends with people that have

come from nothing to being something or even being some like I don't know get a job with you know as a singer or whatever it is but something that's just like from not much to like and you're just like B shot yeah yeah they get a shot yeah and it's just like wow and I'm like oh my God I'm that person you know what I mean and it's like never have I ever thought that that would be the case for me I am I'm so I do think a lot about about the idea that like

we giving you this plat like we're giving you this thing yeah and it's not there's no amount of Charity to it there's no amount of like like hey like try and do a good job there's none of that either it's only you have built up trust with us that we know we can hand it to you and you're going to do a great job like there's no I don't have any reservation the by the way even if there are mistakes along the way even if things even if there are times that it goes off the

rails and it's it's even if it's your fault yeah even if it were to be like okay we played the show and there's an accident happened or something you forgot something or you did whatever like [ __ ] fine that's that's okay because I'm 100% the aggregate in the big picture so much greater than like little totally I'm 100% confident y I'm 100% confident yeah yeah yeah yeah and I couldn't go out there 99% confident yeah yeah right cuz then I then I you'd feel it like I'd feel i' I would feel weird yeah like

I was lying yeah I know that I'm not I know that I'm not positive yeah yeah I don't like to fake [ __ ] like it has to be very authentic and that's I wouldn't have ever joined I wouldn't have ever done it if I didn't feel like I could be fully authentic and who I am yeah like you I know you that about you were coming in with like okay I am I going to be able to to be what you need yes right like do I changing too much of who I am yeah

no no no no like you got to be you and you got to yeah and you guys literally gave that to me like so we think you could do it you could okay cool just like that was the weirdest and it was just like okay so it's just this is okay I was I'm going to go to Europe for like because I was planning to go there yeah yeah it's fine just yeah yeah um we don't really need to do anything until like January I thought that was I actually that was part of that my

I thought that was I thought that was the best timing yeah I I actually really I was I was rooting for that's [ __ ] great talking to you before you left cuz I was like she's going to need to process it perfect so that's exactly what I did you did exactly that was my my and especially like you sent me all the demos too and just like I also thought that you might there was a chance you'd come back from Europe and be like hey I thought about it and it's just like but it

would be the best right that would be the best case if you if it was going to be a weird match you would have come back and said it's a weird match I thought about it and it's too different than what I want to do and you didn't you came back and said let's [ __ ] go go yeah like just [ __ ] go I was so excited and then I was just like I got so much work to do and I started getting like ansy like I have this song I have these songs

and I'm like okay what like I have so much oh my God Emily you have so much to [ __ ] do like you need to practice go and that's right when I got yeah like Colin I need you yeah we're going to practice together let's work this out yeah and then he was just so so good at like speaking of which I'm supposed to go over to cols oh yeah I got to go wait what's he saying just [Laughter] blabbing you're like you know what I have to [ __ ] deal with this