What makes a GREAT INVESTOR? | Episode 111 Joel Greenblatt

3.7k views13573 WordsGrade 17 ReadabilityDownload TxT File
The Knowledge Project

Famed investor Joel Greenblatt is the Managing Principal and Co-Chief Investment Officer at Gotham Asset Management, the successor to Gotham Capital, an investment firm he founded in 1985. He’s also spent more than two decades on the adjunct faculty at Columbia Business School, and he’s the author of five books focused on investment strategy, including You Can Be A Stock Market Genius and The Little Book that Beats the Market. Joel and Shane discuss a wide array of topics, including the differences between luck and skill, stock options, traits of successful management teams, lessons learned from Warren Buffett and what Joel fears most about today’s stock market. Full show notes here: https://fs.blog/knowledge-project/joel-greenblatt/ Follow us on Instagram HERE: https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/ Subscribe to The Knowledge Project Podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3fz6u4X Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2SSgCvT Google Podcasts: https://bit.ly/2Wjw7iy) -------- #TheKnowledgeProject #ShaneParrish #JoelGreenblatt -------- FOLLOW US: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/farnamstreet Shane Parrish: https://twitter.com/ShaneAParrish

... Show More

Video Transcript:

I got to take my columbia class to visit buffett back probably 13 years ago or so and i had never met him before i don't go out to the annual meetings or anything and always been a big fan and you know he knew i you know i taught the classic columbia that he learned from ben graham at uh well he was at columbia so i guess he knew i was doing that and i guess Appreciated that and when i took the class out i don't know if he's the wealthiest guy in the world at that time or top three or whatever he might have been i can't think of anyone who's ever been more gracious with me you know uh not even in that position i'm saying anyone who has been more gracious with me and the students and and really the desire to teach them by example and also uh explaining really Taking a real joy and sharing his wisdom uh and then just on a personal level level uh you know knowing it was like one of the biggest days of my life my chance to to meet warren buffett you know someone i've idolized in so many ways uh and tried to emulate both personally and and professionally and i can't remember anyone being as gracious with me No matter who it was in what position and so i don't know what the lesson in there is in general but if you can be that successful and and be that gracious with people really who have probably nothing to bring to the table for you other than you want to share you know the the opportunity i guess he has to share with others uh uh you know obviously He finds that deeply meaningful so i guess you know he gets paid back that way you know it's a way to to feel good about it but it was just a lesson to me that uh you know there's no excuse for not trying to be gracious with everyone if he can be that way and you know i only got a small little clip in my one day that i got to be there in a few hours we got to spend with him joel welcome to the show Thank you good to be here so glad to have you i'm curious uh what have you learned in evaluating other investors how do you distinguish between luck and skill oh well i only know my little corner of the universe so in those people who and i'm mostly looking at uh equities and how to value businesses and uh actually started with one of my uh Partners john petry something called the value investors club uh back in 1999 which we have to evaluate investors reading applications actually for people to join the club which is how you get into it and i've also been teaching since 1996 so i grade a lot of papers of investors and i think it's a combination of uh a few things but one it's really just the Thought process uh do they can they make it simple can they really explain in a very simple way what it is about this particular idea or investment that makes sense to them and you can see that very quickly after looking at a lot of them what makes a good investor is a combination of being able to do that and passion I think you know i've learned from teaching that you know some people are and also just being in the business some people are in it for the money because you know if you're pretty decent at it you get tend to get way overpaid for you know your contribution to society let's put it that way uh and so some people are in it for the money and some people like solving puzzles And figuring things out and figuring what's going to happen next and you can kind of tell the passion of those people that they're just in it for the combination of challenge and uh interest and those are the people long term that tend to be the most successful and you can see that too so it's really simplicity of thought being able to boil things down to a simple A few simple concepts of what makes this attractive and also passion for figuring it out how do you distinguish between like if you think of simplicity there's simplicity before understanding complexity and then there's simplicity after understanding complexity how do you distinguish between the naive simplicity versus the mastery simplicity I guess uh the way i distinguish is i understand it right away okay i i don't i know many people who are a lot smarter than i am i know many people who can you know fill out a spreadsheet and do 40 pages worth of research on a particular item better than i can uh and but i at the end of the day i try to boil things down to make it very simple And obvious right it's as warren buffer would say you know if i have to get to page 40 of a spreadsheet to figure out this is a good investment that's not a that's not really where i find it it's it's more like you can drive a truck between what i think it's worth and and uh where it's priced and so it's so obvious if you think about it in the right way It's really that it's that big a deal and i would say you know i started teaching at columbia business school in 1996 and i would say for the first two or three years at a minimum i wasn't really very good at teaching i but each class i would come back and try to figure out you know what was i really trying to say why did i do something and i kept when i wrote my first book in 97 it really Boiled down to what was i really thinking why i enjoyed a book called you could be a stock market genius in 1997. and the great thing about writing that book it was really just a series of war stories about you know what i had done at uh my firm gotham capital since uh uh with my partners since 1985 and i said you know what i'm not going to do a lot of research on each one of these things I want to boil it down to what was i thinking at that time and my thinking tends to be fairly simple because you know as buffett would say uh you know you don't have to swing at every pitch you can swing at one of 20 pitches but as long as you do a good job with that one it all works out it doesn't mean you it doesn't matter that you missed out on them so i knew what i was thinking And i just waited for easy simple uh pitches to hit you know something of my sweet spot and then that's pretty easy to explain and i just waited for the easy ones and so then when i wrote the book and when i teach i just tried to boil down to what was the simple thought i had in my mind when i when i did that rather than try to make a whole thesis about everything just tried to be honest and Straightforward as to what was i thinking you know right or wrong and since you're you know when i was writing a book in particular when you're teaching uh of course it's good to talk about your losers but you sound really much better if uh you can explain some of the winners and why they worked out as well you need both of those you need to explain both of those so you get to pick And choose and curate when you're teaching and writing and looking for lessons that were a little different so that's that's one of the benefit i'm not super fleet of tongue or one of the uh beauties of writing in particular so you get to keep you know i'm not even a good natural writer meaning uh it doesn't come right out and it's you know i write 20 pages in a day It's more like i keep working on it until i say what i really meant and so it sounds good to my ear and you get to work on it when you're speaking that's not what you get to do it just comes out how it comes out but when you're writing you really get to take the time and when you're preparing a lesson plan you get to really prepare everything you're going to say and so that was the benefit of teaching and Writing i find writing is the process by which you learn that you don't understand as much as you think you did i think that's uh true and also for better or worse figuring out really what you were thinking trying to boil down to say what i was really thinking at the time and you know maybe in the midst of it it's more jumbled but there's some elemental truth in what what you did and Why it worked out or why it didn't work out and you can think about what that was i guess when you're writing or teaching well individual investments sort of vary the themes in markets that have significantly been a source of outsized returns in the past tend to be super competitive and advantages are often fleeting what do consistently great investors Have in common well besides what i mentioned before was waiting for their pitch you know there are you know i always asked my students you know what do you do with a business where the competition's really fierce technology's always changing you know you're always coming up with new products you know how do you predict what you know when you figure out a value of A business you're trying to figure out what it's going to earn over the next 20 or 30 years and what do you do when those things are really hard to figure out uh i always say skip that one and find one you can figure out so you get to pick and choose is is one thing and uh the other is it's not on page 40. it's really you're looking at things you're Tilting your head in a different way it's not that there are a lot of smart people out there uh a lot smarter than me but if you look at things from 40 000 feet or from a different angle or that's where i've tended to to have my most success where i just yes everyone is looking at it this way but i think that's not the right way to look at it and when you recognize that you have this other way to look and that Makes total sense to you and all the pieces fit when you look at it that way i think those are the great opportunities just um the other you know when i got started you know and uh and i wrote you can be stock market changes about it i opened up that book by talking about my in-laws uh who used to have a weekend house in connecticut and they would spend Their weekends going to country auctions at uh uh yard sales and uh um you know galleries off the beaten path and when they found a painting that they liked their question was not is this painter going to be the next picasso that's really hard their question was is there a painting by this same artist uh that just went up for auction at Double or triple the price that i can buy it for here okay you don't want to say similar genre so in other words that's a lot easier to do their their genius or their their advantage came from finding it in a place that's off the beaten path and so i think at least when in my career i've tried to look at things uh that were complicated or different or Just uh not what everyone was looking for or the way people were looking at it it didn't come from being better at analyzing businesses it came from finding the opportunities in places that other people were looking and and having some ability some ability to value it uh the way if everyone's found this opportunity they would value it too so it's more like that rather than Deciding that this guy's going to be the next picasso or this business is going to be the next big hit i like how you keep it simple simple but not easy right is the but one of the things you said there which is super interesting to me is waiting for your pitch and how you structure the ability to be able to wait for your pitch so i assume that means no or very little outside capital that's under management How do you think about creating the environment that actually nudges you towards waiting and giving yourself that sort of longevity oh sure well uh you know i i as uh buffett would say you don't want to get outside of your circle of confidence so uh i think you're right that a lot of these off the beaten path opportunities uh you can't run a lot of capital so When i started gotham capital in 1985 i read it for five years we did well we returned half our outside capital that's what we literally did to make it you know keep ourselves in the right space and then after 10 years in business we had done well we had done well enough to keep our staff but we turned all the outside capital Uh and that was really just a way to force ourselves to have limited amount of capital uh i keep on quoting buffett but i guess i've learned a lot from buffon and and uh buffett said you know fat wallet is the enemy of high investment returns that's just true one of the other things you said that i thought was interesting is sort of seeing things differently so it's not an information advantage it's Not like you're having access to information that other people don't have but you're seeing when you're correct a better version of reality how is it that you you come to see things in a way that's different than other people i think that comes from trying to keep it simple because i think i try to think simply anyway the best ideas are usually uh simple um you know one of my favorite Investments that worked out i never wrote it up uh in a a book or anything but uh i remember back when i was getting started gotham capital ted turner uh bought mgm and it was a little bit of a minnow swallowing a whale and he didn't have enough money to go by mgm and uh there was this billionaire named kirkokorian that owned mgm at the time And so what uh so so what turner did was he paid cash for part and then he gave away some funky preferred securities of which uh ted i mean which uh courier was gonna have a big piece of because he owned a big chunk of mgm and that preferred if it didn't pay uh was gonna have ted lose control of uh Internal broadcasting and so i looked at that and said i guess he's betting that he's going to be able to pay this preferred off and how is he figuring that out and he was paying an astronomical amount at the time for mgm of course he was one of the earliest i mean he ted turner when you hear him talk i mean he bought the atlanta braves and said he looked at it like well you know that's game takes three hours So that's three hours of broadcasting i get that i own that i can do that he owned a very small uhf at the time which was you know not even on the main dial of a tv set for those old enough to know what uhf was uh so he had like a you know the fourth or fifth biggest station in atlanta and then figured out uh so he bought all his programming Including the atlanta braves and figured out how to stick it up on a satellite but only paid for you know the andy griffith show or whatever was some old sitcom uh for broadcasting in atlanta but was able to beam it up across the country on a satellite across many you know he created tbs and figured out all these things that you know a baseball team's really software And uh it's creating um three hours you know 162 times a year of uh things that people can watch that alone and so he figured out that mgm was really a film library that he could use over and over again on his station so he paid an astronomical amount according to the way most people were looking at but he was looking at it a different way and he was giving away paper and i Figured out he's going to pay this paper and i also figured out that look he only paid 50 in cash so as long as he didn't overpay by double uh i was backed by all the business that he had already and so it was just a big picture way of looking at that preferred saying hey this is covered six times over and this guy's a genius and everything else and I bought i bought this preferred at 60 cents on the dollar that people figured it out a few months later and i got my dollar so it was uh i was kind of proud of that one because people thought this guy's a nut and i just went through the big picture and say even if he's a nut he's still not going to go broke and i'm going to get fully paid so that's an example of a big picture way Of looking at something that had nothing to do with you know sharpening my pencil and running the numbers 50 ways from sunday it was really a big picture to say i'm going to buy this because this is money good so what get you interested in investing like how did you get started what was that path well i was at uh wharton and uh you know because i'm from a typical Jewish family and my only choices were really doctor or lawyer i was applying to law school studying for my lsats i guess they are uh and i read an article in forbes uh about ben graham which is warren buffett's teacher and it was just a simple formula he had for picking stocks and showed how it worked over a long period of time and i hadn't heard of ben graham and i started reading you know i Was in business school when we were learning about stocks and what we were learning is you know markets kind of random and people are really smart and it's the market's efficient so eventually uh you know uh stocks will be priced exactly and they didn't even say eventually stocks are priced at the right price and that didn't make sense to me because i read the paper and i saw that uh Well at one time during the year stock was at 100 they used to have something called the 52 week high low in the newspaper and so they would show every single stock really the high for the year was 100 the low for the year was 42 and every year that happened for every stock and it didn't make sense to me that the value of the business was right at all those times that in november it was one thing and february Was another thing and they were both right so just simple powers simple again observation said gee what they're teaching me doesn't make any sense at all to me and i read this one-page article in forbes about ben graham's stock picking formula and uh and and how simple it was and that it worked over long periods of time and they had used it to make money and that made Total sense to me and he basically was saying that people are irrational some and they're emotional and sometimes they're optimistic sometimes they're pessimistic that's reflected in the stock prices and i said yeah that makes much more sense to me and it was just that simple epiphany that said that got me smitten and i read everything i could about ben graham and What he had written got me into warren buffett and so that's how i got it was just that one little article that i read on my way to law school it didn't stop me from going to law school i went to law school for a year and then dropped out but you know it saved me the other two years i guess of doing something not that there's anything wrong with law school but there is something wrong with Doing something you really don't want to do and so i figured that out literally i'm curious as to how you source ideas in your first book you talked about the wall street journal and sort of letters and publications how has that changed with the internet oh sure well uh i read things that are interesting to me so i'm reading all different publications i'm reading things off the internet I'm getting news feeds all day long and i'll just pick and choose things that are interesting uh to me sometimes i won't do things come to you when you're not really looking if you're sitting there uh with a green eye shade you know and trying to find ideas that's not what i'm doing i'm reading things that are interesting to me i'm looking at developments of the world that are Interesting to me and occasional occasionally i'll have a good idea from from doing that and i just enjoy the process of learning about and trying to understand what's going on in the world outside and and uh i think more experience helps you having seen a lot and being able to say hey this thing reminds me of that thing and This is how that thing played out these are the ways it's different these are the ways it's the same and so gaining experience and i think you know one of the reasons i wrote is because i got to read you know ben graham and all the letters that warren buffett wrote and everything else and you know i it is it's true it's great to learn from your own mistakes and you really don't learn unless you're Really investing your own money and feeling how it feels to be wrong and lose a lot of money so all those things are true but the more you can learn from other people's mistakes and the things that you know learn from the past and reading how smart people think uh it's only helpful i'd rather not make those mistakes myself i'd rather they made their mistakes and make different ones You know you add those all up and maybe you try to avoid over time do you evaluate that kind of like how chess players play matches out in their head and they sort of think through the mistakes and the positioning of the other person and what went wrong do you think about that from an investing point of view when it's other people's investments or just your own wow uh well it's definitely not like Chess i'm a terrible chess player and uh i'm not good at looking forward a lot of moves uh i i think it's simpler than that it's it's really maybe it comes from your one of your previous questions it's sort of patience you know looking uh waiting to see something that's so simple and obvious to you anyway and it doesn't mean you don't miss a lot of things that should have been simple and obvious at The time and you always i'm sure you're familiar with when you just say ah why didn't i think of that or that was so clear after the fact and so it's fine to miss lots of those it's just having the patience to wait until you do have that aha moment saying oh i think this is the better way to look at it and only pulling the trigger uh when when you see that it's almost the s buffett would put it again You know the errors of omission aren't so as important it's the uh if you can miss a lot but if the the fee you know i should have swung at seven out of 20 pitches but if i swing at one and it was a good pitch to swing at that works out well too so you wait for where it's pretty simple and straightforward to you so it's it's a lot of patience some of that comes from experience too you know Being able to say hey i've been doing this for 10 years and this ranks up there in the top 10 or 20 of things i've seen and if you have that ability to contextualize uh with a little experience that's always helpful so the good part about that is i've always felt investing is continual learning i never feel like i got it i never stop making mistakes uh i want to be right more than i'm wrong And i'm not even the most uh not the most patient i just feel like i have enough patience that uh the good things that way the bad things so i think it's a combination of all those things and knowing what you're good at is another one and i'm good at simple things you know where i where i see that simple idea makes total sense to me you Know you can test it in a million complicated ways to see if your simple concept still holds up but at the end of the day it has to be simple to me and that doesn't come around all that much you have to know that too so don't get frustrated waiting i want to double click on something you said there which is being more right than wrong that Matters but it also matters with position weighting so i'm curious as to how you think about sizing positions that's really great question and i think that's almost the most important question because if you have this great investment and unless it's you know tesla last year that's going to go 10x and you put 2 percent in uh and it goes up 50 or 100 uh you could have blown it that could have Been your worst investment of all time because you had should have had a 10 or 20 position you know and really move the needle and so i i almost think that uh position sizing is the most important thing and that being too timid on the few good ideas that come your way is like the biggest mistake people make but of course to take a large position You have to be willing to be wrong and take big losses you have to be patient to wait for that big position to to know when it's there and i would say that the biggest positions that and this is key the biggest positions i've had are not my best ones the ones that i think will go up five or ten times i'm really looking down not up when i Take a big position so in other words i will size the position larger if i don't think i can lose much money it's not like the thing that's going to pay 10 or 20 times obviously if you have a 10 stock that's sitting with nine dollars in cash and no debt and they have a little business attached you can buy a lot of that one as long as you don't think they'll dissipate the Cash uh as long as there's a chance for a big upside you're looking for asymmetric returns one of the one of the best things i think i ever wrote was you can be a stock market genius i wrote uh if you don't lose money most of the other alternatives are good and so the chance for asymmetric returns and the uh the fact that i took whether it's i think people look at the Size of their position that's the wrong way to look at it it's looking at how much can you lose from that position when i lose when i say lose crazy things happen whether it's covid or 2008 you know lehman goes down or something like that where over a short period of time stocks or other securities can trade at any price that's not what i'm talking about how much i'm risking as long as you're uh don't leverage too Much and you can wait it out what i'm talking about is if a reasonable person won't lose much money if they can pick their spot to sell it over the next couple of years that's what i'm viewing is how much i have at risk if i can be patient sell it when i want to sell it over the next couple of years what's the worst i really think i'm going to do that's how much i'm at risk for And then how much does the reward pay off relative to that so if something i could lose a dollar or two in i could easily have a 20 positioning because i'm not risking that 20 percent i'm risking it's it's almost like let's say you're buying uh and i've given this advice uh kids and friends and whatever if you're buying a house which is usually one of The biggest purchases most people can make and it's you know obviously going to be a lot of money relative to your net worth most of the time and how much you earn and everything else better to look at you know how much do i think i could lose in this investment rather than that big hairy number that's scary because houses are expensive uh relative To almost any context of most people whether it's how much they're worth or their salaries but if you then can say you know what i think i'm only at risk for 10 or 20 of whatever i pay for my house realistically uh that maybe makes it more sleepable you know you don't want to bed you know you want to be able to sleep well so if you contextualize it that way most people can take that Risk or or at least can take up more risk than they they think in that way so the same thing with investing i would say that it's how much it's at risk not what the actual size is or it's a 10 or 20 position of our portfolio i appreciate that example one of the things you said there was sort of markets can remain irrational longer than you might be able to remain rational I think that but i'm looking at the market now and it seems like there's a lot two things going on one uh i would nearly unprecedented at least from my point of view fed intervention in the markets and also the other thing is it seems like there's lottery tickets now with a lot of these companies going public that don't generate Cash for equity owners it just seems to be a share price where you have ipos at 100 billion companies that don't actually generate returns how do you think about that going forward or am i wrong to think that this is irrational and it just sort of doesn't make sense to me how does it make sense sure well The real answer is beats me but we'll uh we'll i'll tell you what i think anyway uh it's very hard you know it's a market of stocks not a stock market so uh most of the big indexes are driven by the amazon google microsoft apple and those businesses don't seem very irrational to me those are some of the greatest businesses that man Has ever created partially due to the internet interconnectedness of the world you can name it the types of franchises they can create i don't think we've seen the quality of and the growth trajectory and sort of the unlimited growth trajectory of some of these businesses before and so those uh prices make sense to me uh or they're not like wildly overvalued like The internet bubble i think they're actually perhaps reasonably valued and perhaps good investments we own a lot of those uh businesses well we looked up a statistic uh along the lines of what you're suggesting uh last year a few there were there are now uh 299 companies that lost money in 2019 so this is pre-covered So there were money losers in 2019 uh with a market cap now over a billion dollars and if you bought every single one of those money losers those 299 companies with market caps over a billion dollars now uh you would be up over 100 percent so far this year and the median stock is up i think 47 you know through the end of november anyway i had those stats so it's not like one stock going up a Zillion percent it's you know pretty much across the board these money losers that's your strategy buy everything that loses money now i have a lot of statistics to say that buying that group of companies is the single worst strategy you could concoct in the past will it be the single worst going forward i would say there will be definite winners from that group that lose money and the world has Changed and the business world has changed in this way that many of those businesses are investing in their future it looks like not an investment you know it used to be you know you build a factory or you invest in capital equipment or whatever it is and you could see it on the balance sheet here uh you know a lot of that gets Expensed uh you know you know i'm just thinking like we just switched over to salesforce for instance is a simple example so salesforce is a software program that you know many firms use to track all their marketing and sales and you know it's pretty much all over the place and salesforce actually and i don't remember The exact number but paid 50 000 or something to some third party to convert whatever system we were on before but convert us you know our business on to their uh process and i don't know what we pay for salesforce but not fifty thousand dollars a year yeah but their bet is that the lifetime value of us as a customer you know will last Eight or ten years and that payoff is going to be huge over time and so it's the same thing as let's say amazon amazon doing crime video you know they spend a lot of money upfront spending billions of dollars on saw you know uh movies and series and things like that and they're betting that you'll stay as a customer more You'll spend more over time and your lifetime value will be a lot higher but the way our accounting system works uh is that you ex you get to expense those things so it looks like cash out the door but really it's capital spending same with marketing if you if you spend 40 of your software manufacturing you spend 40 dollars uh to get a new customer and you uh And he hasn't paid off yet but you're going to make 250 from that customer he's worth 250 over the years well you get to deduct that 40 now you know people are yelling hey amazon doesn't pay taxes this and that well they keep taking all the money that they earn from all their great businesses reinvesting in their business in you know customer retention customer Acquisition you know it's all from creating things that they think they'll get paid off over the long term but i don't think the accounting world has has kept up with that so you know just because you're losing money now what i would say though for those 299 companies is everyone realizes that and everyone is assuming that these guys are going to be the next amazon google microsoft and there will not be There'll be a handful of big winners like that but those 299 companies are getting credit as if they will be the next amazon google microsoft seems unlikely that all of them or even a big percentage of them will is there a way to think about which ones are more likely to create that outcome than other ones or is it sort of a lottery ticket how do you think about that right so you pick the ones you can't figure out So for the most of the ones you you take a pass you throw it as buffett was saying the too hard pile i think anyone who's honest about it would say hey i can't know all these industries i can't know all the prospects for these businesses the world is changing very quickly you know tick tock or whatever it's called didn't exist now they got billions of followers and you know where does that Take business out of and you know everything else so very hard to predict you know which ones will be the winners you know if you have a particular expertise in an area have a particular vision or you know something seems simple to you uh i'm not going to argue against it there will be those but one person is not going to know hundreds of those uh to pick And so i think you just have to know yourself know what what you're good at and i'm sure people can take good bets on some of those bets you know uh how do you think about printing money is there a point where that becomes counterproductive and how do we identify that point yeah so that's a that's a more of a macro question that is above my pay grade logic would say you know i learned a lot Of milton friedman and like that that you should be able to create inflation by just printing more money it seems straightforward to me when when that realization comes does it come in a big you know no one rings a bell but it just sort of hits and and uh all this extra money floating around uh causes inflation and then it's a Question of how you measure inflation because you might you know i don't think the these stocks levitating you know all these uh specs and ipos and everything levitating at high prices you know and going up five and ten times in a year that doesn't factor into the inflation number but that's where the money is going um so it depends how you measure Inflation you know does it get inflate asset prices of homes or other things uh stocks uh securities and it doesn't count inflation but are we having inflation are we not it depends how you define inflation so uh so that's a sophisticated question once again beyond my pay grade and will that filter into uh You know just uh affecting inflation and then of course all these other countries are doing it you know we don't live alone here in the united states here we're printing money so is everybody else and they're artificially you know taking that money and buying securities and making negative interest rates and uh you know it's hard to believe some portion of this doesn't end badly or in some kind of consequences i don't Believe it has yet uh and it's a question of you know what happens now i do believe that whatever the repercussions you know we've had covet right and so the question is you know people think we're going to get through it and you know what should the government have done you know during this time and i'm a firm believer the government should Uh spend as much money as necessary to keep the consequences slow because this really is a one-off hopefully the next you know maybe or won't happen again for 20 or 30 years or maybe it won't be as bad but i think that there really is a big loss of jobs and there's a big loss of ability to do business and i think the government has the unprecedented opportunity to print the money now Whether it's three trillion or ten trillion let's say they have to spend 10 trillion which they haven't spent yet and they just printed well if you can borrow it at you know 1.3 percent over 30 years uh and that's 130 billion dollars a year that's you know three percent of our annual budget in the united states is that a good thing to do uh and and actually the actual cost after inflation However you want to measure it is probably free i i can't i don't want to ask how did that happen i guess i would ask well it's great that it's happening and i can borrow money for free and i got to go help these people now and we have this unprecedented opportunity to do that and so i'm not too worried about that i think that's a smart thing to do i Think we can afford to do it as long as we now we're not borrowing that money over 30 years i think our average maturity is like six years so i think that's insane i think we should borrow it over 30 years for free um so that would be my one suggestion to anyone listening uh we should extend our maturities when they're lending us money for free i like the long duration idea um you Said you're not really worried about the printing money what are you worried about in the markets these days well it depends what you're invested in once again a market in stock so if you said are you worried about the prices of amazon google microsoft apple i would say no it doesn't mean they can't fall 30 or 40 percent that just means that if you're a long-term holder you'll end up getting a decent return And maybe a good return over a longer period of uh time so i don't think that's where the problem is and that's where a lot of the market cap is so i don't really think i'm worried about that this other speculation uh in you know all these spacks and all these companies that are losing money that are given you know i was looking at uh just for curiosity i was looking i don't know how to pronounce it nicola or Uh nikola however you pronounce it you know that trump company electric truck company i was just looking after it's turned out that it appears to be mostly a fraud and they really haven't come up with anything that they've promised uh still has a market cap of six and a half billion so i and i don't i i'm not going to pick on that name this particular i would Just say it's an indication of potential froth in a lot of other companies that are getting the benefit of doubt that shouldn't and well that in badly uh yeah that'll end badly for those companies but once again if you add up all the market caps of those companies they will pale in comparison to an apple or an amazon so as far as the Market as a whole or the economy as a whole i don't you know people are speculating maybe in a good way will get slapped on the wrist for speculating too much and you'll learn the same lesson that everyone learns in every new generation that you know some of these things are speculative but i don't think that's going to bring us all down i think uh actually might bring some Sanity back uh for the next i guess now whatever people's memory is now five or ten years you know maybe you know people will be more cautious for some period of time on those type of businesses we coming back to something we said earlier so there's spotting an opportunity there's sizing and allocation and then one of the other variables that Seems to matter a lot is the management team i'm curious as to how you evaluate a management team what you can observe from the outside without talking to them that would be an indication that they're competent and capable both qualitatively and quantitatively how do you think about management well first i have a partner rob goldstein who joined me in 1989 and he and i used to go out and visit a Lot of management teams and to become a ceo or cfo of a public company even a small one you've got to be pretty smart you have to have some business savvy of some sort and i would say for the most part most management teams impressed me anyway when i walked out of the room uh everyone had a good story about what they were gonna do uh you know how they were gonna spend Their money going forward and uh the best rule of thumb that i learned was if this management team was good at allocating capital before i walked in the door the assumption that they would continue to be good was a really good assumption and if they were really bad at it no matter what story they told and how smart they seemed and how logical what they planned to do Was the better assumption would be that they would continue to be bad at it so i would not rely me personally rely so much on what a management team my assessment of the management team but my assessment of what they've done in the past uh is very valuable and that's really you know how have they allocated capital in the past have they done in a smart way Or have they not done in a smart way and so that you can look at quantitatively in a lot of ways and if you're going to be cold and calculating and unemotional about it you're probably better off because everybody tells a good story and everyone seems pretty smart to me uh who's reached that level who you would speak to so i didn't find it super valuable now if you want to look at one offs Uh there are some geniuses out there uh you know go back to the story i told about ted turner like i didn't really know you couldn't really tell uh from looking at the numbers and then i just heard him speak for about an hour and a half once he was presenting to a group of analysts why he was doing i think was the mgm deal i just watched him speak and understand his Logic and how brilliant he was and said well uh that was just obvious there aren't that many people that i've seen that are just so obviously you know obviously if i were smart enough steve jobs i would hope would have been one and there are some other visionaries that just are clearly have the whole package but having the whole package yourself and then being able to explain it in such a Simple way that i understand it that's even more rare but if they can that's what i would look for but that's very rare i haven't i haven't made a lot of money from doing that i did make money in the mta you know the ted turner case but uh very rarely since them so i think looking at the numbers and seeing people's track record has been much more helpful than trying to assess My you know it's like they say when you uh interview people the smartest people i know uh some people are good at interviewing what they would say is some people are good at being interviewed and some people are not has a little correlation with how they will perform if you hire them really the best advice i got is talk to the people that they Work with in the past and and that's much better than assessing how they answer your interview questions or trying to think of the great interview questions or at least it's true for for me and i think that's uh at least for me that would be the better way to look at it so the same way with uh assessing managements i'd say i know a lot of extremely successful people who Interview very poorly and well it's it's very interesting my partner rob golson joined me in 1989 i hired him right out of uh college and uh and he was so bad at interviewing he was so bad he reminded me of myself and that's why i hired him because he said something within the interview that made total sense to me and that's why i hired him so it wasn't like he totally Flubbed it but he did remind me of how bad i was on my interviews and uh and endeared him to me uh because he did have those nuggets of clarity that made me see that there was something behind the bad interviewee so that's pretty funny story i'm curious as to how what you look at public market ceos who's good at capital allocation In your mind who's really good who are the top five and non-investment advice and not respective of share price but you are sort of the top five allocators that you you always keep your tabs on what they're doing um i don't know if that's true for me but you know the best in the world has been uh jeff bezos i mean he was a visionary back in the early 90s when he envisioned at least a big chunk of his success and You know this whole thing i'm talking about is investing in your business and not worrying about profits now and you know building long-term value of customers that was his vision 20 whatever it was 27 years ago which is you know at least a few decades ahead of most other people who have uh thought that way and i don't think you need and and uh i Think more along my skill set would be watching warren buffett allocating capital over the years and trying to learn from what he ended up liking one of the best things i ever learned from was when he bought coca-cola uh and analyzing how he could pay at that time what i thought was such an astronomical price for A fairly uh mundane business uh it had great franchise obviously it was growing reasonably but still based on you know just my cheap gene of buying things cheap and trying to learn from someone who wanted to buy good and cheap uh how much could you pay and so we ended up uh you know rob and i ended up analyzing when we took a look at uh we like to look at spin-offs and different Things we took a look at moody's uh which is you know the rating agency which was trading at 20 times earnings at the time we were looking at it and that's not uh you know back when we were looking at it 20 years ago was not a value investing kind of multiple you know value investing kind of multiple at that time six seven eight times and this was trading at 20 times but we Love the business and so one of the exercises we did is said okay let's compare it to when buffett bought coca-cola and compared the metrics of these businesses and how they deploy capital what kind of returns do they get how fast does it grow you know all those things and see whether it's uh as good turned out it wasn't as good It was you know if you said that uh buffett bought coke at 10 a share it worked out that we were paying 13 for moody's but of course coke went to 30 or 40 uh and so you know short you know within five years and and so paying 13 for something that goes to 30 or 40 would also have been pretty good so even though we compared it And said hey buffett got a better deal even adjusting for the type of business it is it was really great to to have that so just looking how he allocated i mean his allocation of capital is like most akin to ours as an investor he runs his uh his business like it's a portfolio of companies you know a stock is not a piece of paper that bounces around that you put fancy ratios on there Actually ownership shares of businesses that you value and at the end of the day our only uh home base or true north is that hey this is an ownership share of a business can i value this business as if i'm owning the whole company like a private equity firm what's it worth what am i paying you know is management going to be a good steward until we get there You know you ask those kind of questions uh but that's how we look at it and buffett's just turned that into actually putting together a conglomerate of portfolio businesses like that so i think he's the one i've learned the most from uh but bezos i think taking us uh into looking at the way companies deploy capital like if you look at costco for instance Uh you know they they very straightforward we don't make money on our business we make more money from our memberships and uh you know it's uh you talk to jim collins so it's a flywheel where if you can sell people uh products at cost it's very hard for people who are trying to make a profit to beat you but if you can make all your money on The memberships just selling more and more memberships for the ability to buy it cost very simple model not so hard to understand and uh the the more members you get the better you can do the more business you can do and you know the final turns and so you you there are few and far between but there are models like that just learning from watching the best to do it As you're suggesting i i don't want to name five but you know those are three models that you know have certainly resonated with me i'm curious as to what you you've studied buffett a lot so what have you learned from him that you see as non-obvious or other people don't tend to see so something again where it's in plain sight but people don't value it the same way that you value it and you have a different aperture into It oh wow so that's uh maybe i'll stall by answering it this way i got to take my columbia class to visit buffett back probably 13 years ago or so and i had never met him before i don't go out to the annual meetings or anything and always been a big fan and you know he knew i you know i thought the classic columbia that he learned from ben graham at Uh well he was at columbia so i guess he knew i was doing that and i guess appreciated that and when i took the class out i don't know if he's the wealthiest guy in the world at that time or top three or whatever he might have been i can't think of anyone who's ever been more gracious with me you know not even in that position i'm saying anyone who has been more gracious with me And the students and and really the desire uh to teach them by example and also uh explaining really taking a real joy and sharing his wisdom uh and then just on a personal level level uh you know knowing it was like one of the biggest days of my life my chance to to meet warren buffett you know someone i've idolized in so many ways uh and tried to emulate both personally And and professionally and i can't remember anyone being as gracious no matter who it was in what position and so i don't know what the lesson in there is in general but if you can be that successful and and be that uh gracious with people really who have probably nothing to bring to the table for you other than you want to share you know the the opportunity i guess he Has to share with others uh you know obviously he finds that deeply meaningful so i guess you know he gets paid back that way you know it's a way to to feel good about it but it was just a lesson to me that uh you know there's no excuse for not trying to be gracious with everyone if he can be that way and you know i only got a small little clip in by one day that i got to be there in A few hours we got to spend with him uh but it really resonated with me you know ever since and seems like he makes everybody the most important person or they feel like they're the most important person in the world when he's around them which is a great trait to have and develop one thing that buffett doesn't seem to do ever is stock options i'm curious as to your take on stock options as a means of Compensation and also in terms of how that gets accounted for um it's it's not a huge issue with me depending on uh i mean the information is disclosed so it's really uh wanting to you know some businesses send people the right way uh you know stock options are sort of gambling in some sense that you know you have a Job in a particular department and but you're reliant on everyone else so in some way it gets everyone you know rowing in the same direction and caring about the ultimate uh outcome uh but the accounting issue isn't a big thing for me because the information is disclosed how analysts go take that information and then give credit to companies Uh for uh for that's not a cost of of compensation and not expensing it in the right way i think the information's out there i think would be very hard to do because uh stocks are quite volatile and then attribute you know expensive one year and then the stock fell and then you take the expense off it would be very complicated so i think disclosure is important Clarity of disclosure is important the accounting of it is very difficult but as long as it's disclosed i think that's really the analyst's job to interpret it correctly so i don't have uh doesn't keep me up at night let's put it that way but i do think that they should be fully accounted for the cost of paying your people it's clearly a cost It's not an invented cost it's clearly a cost um it's an expensive way to pay people if you have a really good business at a good price it's uh you could probably do it more cheaply but as long as it's accounted for correctly and i've always been for uh management being responsible to shareholders in such a way that they their bread is buttered the same way so i have no inherent problem with Incenting people the same way the shareholders are incented i do think that uh you know there's this whole argument about you know what should be the role of corporations you know should just be increasing the stock price or uh rather than taking care of the community or employees and everything else and i think really it should be and it goes the same for stock options that it should be Long-term they should be predicated on long-term value creation and the same for businesses in other words you don't create long-term value by cheating your customers you don't create long-term value by not treating your employees well or being a good member of the community or providing a service that people really want or polluting the environment or you don't create long-term value that Way it might create the appearance of short-term value which may be reflected in a stock price which may affect your stock options because you tricked somebody in thinking you you did well but that's not the way to create long-term value so i think if we just adjusted things both in stock options like you asked or even in Uh what is the role of a good company a company has to the role of companies to create good long-term you know uh as much long-term value as possible and the only way to do that is to treat employees well to treat your customers well to treat the environment well if you just go for the short-term wins which sometimes the stock market might influence because you're getting paid in a stock option that Might reflect it over the short term or be fooled into reflective over the short term that's when you know you end up with problems both with stock options and also with management's being short-term caretakers rather than long-term uh value creators in the business so that's why it's really great to and the market values that i mean if you have a guy like Jeff bezos who's really only thinking long term and then you think of all those companies that are losing money that people are giving value because they see the future it's not that the market is trying to be short-term oriented they see when they see the real deal they do give credit for it and so i don't think they're counterproductive you know i got to make the next quarter i got to look Good i think i like i'm watching elon musk even you know who's been obviously incredibly successful i don't want to take anything but worrying about how we look over the next quarter uh yet he's a visionary you know a decade out i i see that as troublesome that they don't they don't uh look at one another so i i my only advice To most public company management is do the right thing over the long term and the market will recognize it don't worry about the analysts or what you say for the quarter give an explanation of what happened for the quarter and what your goal was and why it didn't work out or why it worked out what you're going to do to fix it that's fine but don't play for the next quarter or worry that you know the Analysts won't like it or anything and i see that time and time again that management's really worried about the stock price and maybe your question about stock options has something to do with it i don't know and and how to adjust and make everyone a long-term holder of the stock rather than a short-term trader and you know sounding good for the quarter so i see the issues there i i don't have a solution other than That the market has been giving value to the long-term visionaries who invest over the long term not just for what it looks like this quarter but what they're building over the long term and so i think that's healthy uh to some degree are there accounting rules that you think are blatantly wrong or misleading i don't know i i guess i'm just more for transparency uh you know even when people say oh You know uh you know ebitda not including the cost of our inventory or our labor or something you know if they come up with new measures like that i think the importance is to say how much you paid for labor and to say how much you you paid for uh your inventory and so i think just providing enough information and it is helpful to hear how management is thinking about Those things but if they're just trying to use them to goose up their short-term returns by not counting expenses or something like that then i'd like to see that too that they're uh they're not really long-term thinkers i don't think some of the you know whether it's apple google or microsoft or amazon i don't think they're doing that i think They're building value over time and by giving some level of transparency to the long-term plan and the long-term economics there i think the market's able to give the correct value accounting is like a sideshow you know it's as buffer would say the language of business and you have to understand accounting but i never and i was a county major by the way At wharton i don't know what i did i mean you know you have sales you have expenses you have income you know here's what you have here's what you owe here's you know i don't know what i did for four years uh doing that and i don't try to memorize every accounting rule out there i go through every statement and say what does that number mean or how did they get to that number trying to understand What's going on you know and there's somewhat different standards across the world and what i try to do is homogenize them into economic reality and that's what i'm doing so you you're asking me some questions about what i do you know with some arcane accounting rules here or there and i'm just for disclosure however it's disclosed and for management trying to Express how they're thinking about their business and how they think about the numbers and how they utilize the numbers they have i've never bothered that much with worrying about how something is accounted for i try to homogenize in such a way that i can understand it i mean there are i think we were you know looking at international companies uh there were there's some holding Companies and things like that south korea that are very hard to figure out uh and some are off balance sheet some are on balance sheet you know that goes for a lot of different companies and i just figure if i can't figure it out they don't want me to figure it out and i got to go to the next one right i'll spend a lot of time doing it but if i can't figure it out then i just assume that's intentional And i don't view that as a good thing as you're reading statements are there things that you find yourself saying over and over um maybe that you wish management better understood not not really i'm looking for successful capital allocators usually not like i said a story just because i'm not good at that i don't know who the next picasso is but I i uh if there is a uh franchise or a brand or a network or something that they can continue to exploit uh i want to i want them to be thinking sort of along those lines uh and i don't spend a lot of time with ones that don't make sense to me or don't look promising so it's it's it's more like sifting and there's lots of companies and There's lots of things to look at so you don't want to waste a lot of time on things that immediately don't you know i pass a lot on you know maybe too much but it's like i said as long as we concentrate on the ones that make sense uh that's that's more important than missing out on you know errors of omission what you've done with charter schools is Astounding i'm curious as to what you've learned from running effective education for the masses in a way well uh number one your earlier question about finding good management there's uh my my partner john petry and i uh hired a woman named diva moscowitz uh to be the ceo of uh success academy and uh the idea behind it there are now 20 000 kids in 47 schools and they would be The top district in new york city and most of the kids uh 87 are minority uh low-income kids and that yet they beat all the wealthiest school districts and it's really uh due to i think uh relentless uh brute force hard work high standard setting by a woman named diva moskowitz uh smart enough but lucky enough to hire uh to do this And the idea really was based on a business idea uh that you know fourth grade learning the different subjects should be pretty similar across schools so if you could do it well in one uh the model cannot be just hiring the top one percent of teachers because you run out of those the model has to be giving the supports necessary and the Training necessary to an average teacher to become a great teacher that that had to be the model and also if you could do it in one two or three schools what can you do it in a replicable way yeah and that was sort of the model and the question that we looked at was always well okay we opened the first school and you know there's going to be a big mess you know and you can put all your energy Into one school and through brute force make sure all the kids learn don't let anyone fall through the cracks put a lot of resources in there which was the basic idea to develop the model that made sense and then a couple years later opened three yes more schools and then the question is how much better are we doing on those three schools how much Far ahead are we from where we were in the first school yeah uh how can we measure uh which teachers in each of the four schools now are doing better than the other teachers in the grade which which school is doing better which third grade's doing better how can we share across flat you know the different schools what's working what's not working how do we create the systems that allow that Sharing and allow it to be not a competition but more like hey you know our profits it's a non-profit so our profits are the kids learning that's how we measure uh and and you know over 90 of the kids reading and doing math on grade level and then if they do that then raise the standards some more you know uh so that you keep uh improving So eva was able to implement this uh learn uh develop and now we have 47 schools and 20 000 and uh the idea behind this was that can you know uh low-income minority kids that are currently homeless kids with disabilities can they learn at the highest levels uh and if they can the theory was that people would care Yeah and uh i think you've proven that they can well that was the idea to prove that it can the uh i think in some ways at least in new york city with this mayor it's kind of failed to say hey what are those guys doing yeah and what can we learn and how can we help each other uh that part which i thought would be automatic just With a logical business mind especially for non-profit and you know we're all have the same goals in mind i thought that you know if you repeat it 10 times 20 times 30 times 40 times uh that that would speak for itself yeah and that's uh where i guess the the plans have crashed and burned a little bit uh but i i haven't given up that they will and they're they're obviously Mayor bloomberg really cared and joel klein when he was school superintendent this mayor doesn't hopefully the next mayor will uh and you know if it happens in new york city the thought was that uh it matters more not that it actually matters more but that you know there's more press here and more ability to share those ideas because it happened in new york city uh and so that was the idea and you know So eva set up an ed institute and a lot of other ways does zillions of tours and the idea is to share this knowledge but the but the real problem is that uh you know only if if you are a uh low-income minority uh or minority low-income or minority in a major one of our cities your chance of graduating college now or one out of 11. so that's A 10 out of 11 failure rate in the current system and the idea behind success and very many other successful charter schools some even more successful and then i even write in a book about uh i wrote a book called common sense that just came out and i wrote about uh a district school where 99 of the kids uh passed the uh math test and 94 past the english tests the regular district school one of the poorest sections of brooklyn but the stats i just gave you were for the kids with disabilities okay now the kids with disabilities do you know it's four times better than the kids with disabilities do in the regular school the english language learners in that same district school Percent can pass the english these are english language learners 90 past the english exam where nine percent ten times better of english language learners passing in the other district schools and so the idea behind the best charters and the best district schools not just charters it's anyone doing a good job but it shows with the right supports Almost every kid could achieve at high levels so that 10 out of 11 that aren't making it that's even more tragic because they all could with the right supports okay that that's sort of the idea here and so i wrote about what can we do about that to do and then run around the current system i'm not saying let's not try to keep fixing the card system but we spend a trillion dollars a year In kindergarten through university education here and 10 out of 11 low income or minority kids in our top 50 urban centers aren't making it through to the gold standard and if and if you get a college degree you're 70 more than someone with a high school degree high school to be 30 more than a high school dropout so 10 out of 11 aren't getting there And but they all could is is the idea and so what can we do about that and charity or uh you know drop is a drop in the bucket we spent 32 billion dollars a year or 33 billion dollars a year just new york city alone so you know if you have a if you're a billionaire and want to throw in a billion dollars into this current system you know soviet style system that we have That's not going to move the needle unfortunately yeah so there's got to be another way i really appreciate all the work that you've done there and the results sort of speak for themselves and hopefully it starts to catch on soon well i appreciate that so uh uh one of the things that i was hopeful would catch on and that some of the major companies were talking about Uh not it's the responsibility but something they can do to help themselves meaning get more diverse talent yeah and uh is something i wrote about uh you know what can google google microsoft amazon jp morgan do is something i talked about was alternative certification and and what i suggested is all they really would have to do is say you know what tests what courses What certificates in lieu of a college degree can you pass or do well on what test courses or certificates can you get outside of a college degree that we will give you a high paying job and let's say the microsoft hr department or you know some other department just set the standards and then a whole ecosystem once there's a buyer a whole ecosystem of uh supportive Services whether they're online or tutoring services can be an alternate way for people to gain those credentials and all you're doing is setting standards i'm not saying these companies would need to take tests or give tests just set standards yeah i i like that would be a great way to do it hopefully somebody listening can uh take that and run it up the flagpole at one of these larger Corporations it'll just take one or two and then it'll start going reminds me of the certifications we used to have uh at the beginning of sort of like the internet in the early late 90s early 2000s you'd be able to get cisco qualified and then you'd get a job out of that and it didn't really matter if you couldn't do anything else or you didn't have high school or whatever as long as you passed these certifications High-paying job a lot of those people have become super productive members of those organizations well i definitely think it's happening in the software area where it's really very skill based but that same idea could uh could be applied for all different types of skills there'll be have to be new tests developed but you know mckenzie's Developed game day game based tests that you know supposed to look at decision making and critical uh thinking skills and uh so there's a lot of ways to test for skills that companies could use and there's a lot of studies done saying that having a more diverse workforce actually makes you a lot of money yeah and so if 10 out of 11 aren't making it yeah through a college degree uh we're wasting a lot of talent because They all can do it that sort of was the point of what i i'm so excited about that the success of the best district schools the best charter schools with the right supports we have a lot of talent out there that's being wasted and and this is something companies can do to sort of uh start the process going to start the flywheel going where you know there's demand there's a Buyer yeah and now the system and the network of the ecosystem can get going uh beneath it that's a great place to end this conversation joel i want to thank you so much for your time well thank you so much really appreciate shane you

Related Videos

A Professional Athlete Explains The Difference Between Pro Sports and Life

The Knowledge Project

126 - 6 hours ago - 3:44

Naval Ravikant | The Angel Philosopher

The Knowledge Project

199.9k - 2 years ago - 2 hours, 2:19

Chamath Palihapitiya — The Knowledge Project #94

The Knowledge Project

128.3k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 30:8

Secrets to Healthy Relationships | Esther Perel | The Knowledge Project #71

The Knowledge Project

69.8k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 18:5

How To GET MORE DONE and AVOID DISTRACTIONS | Nir Eyal

The Knowledge Project

6.3k - 9 months ago - 1 hour, 19:18

Polygon BULLISH As Ever! - Polygon (MATIC) Price Analysis - MATIC Price Update

Narb Trading

2.1k - 6 hours ago - 7:4

Failing On Our Way To Mastery | Seth Godin

The Knowledge Project

15.9k - 9 months ago - 1 hour, 20:43

All about SEMICONDUCTORS | A special episode of The Knowledge Project

The Knowledge Project

40.4k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 9:28

Bill Ackman — The Knowledge Project #82

The Knowledge Project

127.8k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 38:4

The Negotiating MASTERCLASS | Chris Voss and Shane Parrish

The Knowledge Project

73.5k - 2 years ago - 1 hour, 23:5

Mental Models for complexity | Scott Page and Shane Parrish | The Knowledge Project #55

The Knowledge Project

16.8k - 2 years ago - 1 hour, 23:38

What You Can Learn From History's Greatest Innovators | Walter Isaacson | The Knowledge Project 121

The Knowledge Project

4.2k - 2 months ago - 1 hour, 24:38

Adam Grant | Why You Should Rethink A Lot More Than You Do

The Knowledge Project

5.3k - 6 months ago - 1 hour, 23:43

What makes a GREAT INVESTOR? | Episode 111 Joel Greenblatt

The Knowledge Project

13k - 6 months ago - 1 hour, 16:25

How to Get People to Say "Yes" | Robert Cialdini | The Knowledge Project 122

The Knowledge Project

7.2k - 1 month ago - 1 hour, 8:46

Daniel Kahneman | The Knowledge Project #68

The Knowledge Project

16.9k - 2 years ago - 1 hour, 6:41

How To Live a Stoic Life | Bill Irvine | The Knowledge Project 123

The Knowledge Project

4.9k - 1 month ago - 1 hour, 9:57

John Maxwell — The Knowledge Project #80

The Knowledge Project

5.2k - 1 year ago - 58:52

Angela Duckworth: Grit and Human Behavior | Episode 109

The Knowledge Project

4.7k - 7 months ago - 1 hour, 26:39

Maria Konnikova — The Knowledge Project #89

The Knowledge Project

7.5k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 32:41

Like it? Make YTScribe even better by leaving a review