Anti-American & pro-Russian? The uncertain course of Germany's parties ahead of the federal election

pro-russian anti-American parties are expected to win a quarter of the votes if not more in Germany's upcoming elections the farri right alternative for Germany and the leftwing conservative Zara Varn Alliance want Germany to drop sanctions on Russia and start importing Russian gas again the success of these parties that are skeptical about U the US and NATO could present a major challenge to the transatlantic relationship particularly on security and trade DW's Matthew Moore reports election time in Germany where anti-American sentiment go home and pro Russian views are right 25% of Voters support two parties seeking a

big shift in Germany's relationships with the USA and Russia what's Behind These attitudes and what imp could they have on Germany's political future first a recap for decades Germany was divided West Germany Democratic and capitalist backed by the United States East Germany communist and authoritarian backed by Soviet Russia from Truman to Reagan Stalin to garbatov in the west anti-americanism was largely reserved for leftwing peace movements in the East anti-americanism was embedded in the ethos of of the ruling Elite in 1989 the Iron Curtain fell the two germanies were United a year later and the former

East Germany became a NATO member joining the former West Germany today America's footprint remains substantial there are seven US military bases and 50,000 troops stationed in the former West and if anything anti-americanism is very much back and defendant in the politics it's the meeting of the zarag alliance or BSW a populist movement founded by a former communist they want Germany to drop sanctions on Moscow and begin buying cheap Russian gas again it's a sentiment widely shared here underpinned by a deep suspicion of the US and NATO I think Germany should you know be self-conscious to

say we want our own positions to be be heard even if this causes a certain uproar in um the US everyone we've just heard from is in the BSW party a movement that has its roote in the left but in today's Germany this skepticism towards the US has emerged on the other end of the political Spectrum too on the far right the alternative for Germany or afd Party Conference like the BSW the afd rejects what it sees as us hegemony the party wants to move toward a quote interest driven relationship with the major powers of

the world like the US China and Russia for the afd that means the withdrawal of US troops from Germany and a resetting of the relationship for some in the party see the election of Donald Trump with his nationalist agenda as an opportunity and the endorsement by Elon Musk embodies this new Dynamic allowing the afd to present itself as a bridge between Russia and the [Music] US others expect a clash when America first meets Germany first buan hookah is the most influential ideological figure in the party and a load star for the Nationalist Wing one such

conflict could be energy the afd also wants to import gas from Russia again through the nordstream pipeline presumably instead of the more expensive LNG Germany currently buys from the USA you hear this a lot on the right and on the left that Germany was somehow forced into sanctions by the us but that overlooks the fact that all G7 member states backed these sanctions on their own merits seeing them as essential to punish Russia for its Invasion the afd wants to turn its back on that and scrap the ban on Russian Imports and has been critical

of Germany's Military Support for Ukraine while parting Putin's version of events Russian talking points are common place here blaming everything on America look neither of these two parties the afd or the BW can really get into power in the upcoming elections but that doesn't mean they have no influence the BSW is in governing coalitions in two states and together these parties can really shape the debate and that's especially true in the former East ger Decades of communist Rule still cast a shadow here Chancellor Olaf Schultz of the center left Social Democrats is here to talk

to voters he's trying to project a balance between supporting Ukraine while not being seen as escalating the conflict that caution and not to history fear and public opinion support for Ukraine how do you see that for Schultz has asked about the stationing of us medium range missiles in Germany particularly controversial in this region schz is trailing in the polls and is unlikely to be the next Chancellor his Challenger is Friedrich Mez of the center right Christian democrats he too faces pressure in the east from those who want better relations with Russia right up to his

State Premier in Saxony who wants to stop sending weapons to Ukraine mer insists he's committed to helping Ukraine to Victory we are in a very critical phase we don't know yet what the American government will do and um I will tell him the same when I will meet him tonight as I did uh shortly before Christmas that he can rely on us merch is likely to be the next Chancellor he's fir ly of the pro American tradition part of his challenge will be trying to reconcile Germany's political fringes who so deeply disagree let's bring in

German British historian journalist and author kcha Hoya her latest book is beyond the wall a history of East Germany between 1949 and 1990 welcome Kaa thanks so much for your time today why is support for parties with an anti-American stance so we're talking about the afd and the BSW here why are they stronger in the former East Germany well I think part of it has got historical Roots so there is um you know a legacy of anti-americanism I think in the East uh due to the history that it's had so with it being part of

the Eastern block during the Cold War and and looking very much East towards the Soviet Union and Russia rather than West uh towards the United States I think a legacy of that has sustained itself to that day when you kind of goow up with that that image in your mind of what the world looks like and how it operates particularly with NATO as an enemy I think some of that sticks um but I think there's also a tendency today you know that you see in other European countries as well where the where the right um

particularly aligns itself with Russia rather than with uh America and that is also there's an element of anti- wokeism if you will in that so the sense that you know the West stands for for liberalism and for for left leaning politics and Putin stands for the opposite so I think both of these play a role Germany's of course going to the polls next month and in this election this feeling of anti-americanism has been exac exacerbated by the Russia Ukraine war so I mean this is a war we're talking about it's you know why is there

so much sympathy for Russia's motives in the former communist East Germany is that related to what you've just told us I think it is in the sense that you can weave that into the same narrative so if you view the world from that um angle you see uh basically Russia as as someone or as a country that responds to American and Western aggression in the region so the argument there is that NATO has been expanding um eastwards that this made Russia feel insecure um and and that it's basically fighting or pushing back so quite often

the Cuban crisis is used as a as a sort of historical Counterpoint um now obviously I don't agree with that that logic and many people um would would find very good arguments against that but if you want to believe that basically Russia is just defending its own interests there um there is an argument to be to be had there and that's what a lot of people buy into let's talk about Donald Trump for a moment do you think that Trump's American first stance is likely to fuel this sense of anti-americanism in Germany well I think

that's an interesting question because in many ways um it should because obviously when you know we're selling as as Germany I mean is selling a lot of um stuff to the US and so in America first stance uh would of course harm German economic interests but on the flip side many people in that Spectrum also see uh what Donald Trump's doing in the US as a role model for what Germany could do um in you know with the new government basically under the afd um so I think it's a um there's an ambivalence there I

think that uh even the afd itself hasn't quite worked out what to do with yet so there's the support for for what Trump's doing but at the same time uh that's deep skepticism towards the US still plays a role if we think about how long Germany have be has been unified I mean if tolerance of Russia in eastern uh in the eastern part of Germany is to an extent a legacy of communist rule as you were suggesting I mean is there then any sign that it might be dying out because East and West Germany were

reunited almost 25 years ago um I think maybe in terms of historical Roots but at the yeah maybe in terms of the historical Roots um but at the same time you know the sort of worldview that comes with that um and and the sort of looking East is also embedded in some of the stuff that's been going on since 1990 so if you take The Economic Consequences say of the sanctions against Russia they were very very deeply felt in the East because the pipelines arrive in Eastern Germany the the gas and oil pipelines that were

Switched Off um so that has affected a lot of people um the very close economic ties that were there um a lot of them were actually from companies that had bases in the East um you know with Russia as well so those sorts of things will still play a role as were the legacy of what you know parents and Grand parents um teach their children and how they grow up so I think that there will be an element of that that will carry into future Generations as well looking at the bigger picture do you also

think that this could be a sign of a a search for a unified German identity in a way um I think there are some elements of that that are actually unifying I mean you see a a similar kind of anti-americanism in the west within the left wing uh Spectrum there so you know this idea that America is um the ultimate Western capitalist um sort of state is there amongst elements there as well so I don't think in and off itself this is something that will divide Germans or or kind of perpetuate the The Divide between

East and West um because that there's been commonality there and I think we also see that in the rise of the afd across Germany yes it has a stronger uh base in the East but it's growing in in support across all of Germany as well at the same time so I think there are some some elements there that um aren't necessarily just uh in the East and therefore not necessarily in the way of of German uh reunification if you will in terms of society and culture we'll have to leave it there Keta Hoya historian journalist

and author thanks so much ketcha for joining us thank you