Ele Já Fez 250MM De Dólares Com Webinários | Jason Fladlien - Segredos da Escala #072

the best webinar campaign we ever did it did $57 million in 226 days and at the heart of it we were able to do a demonst j for products where we can do demonstrations the webinar also makes more sense so when you sell don't teach them how to be electricians give them light switches and that's the secret to all my self success but everybody's teaching people how to be electricians when everybody mostly just wants the light switch how do you create these irresistible offers that have this like light switch inside of them here's the biggest

secret to an offer at the center of every great offer whether people realize it or not is risk mitigation and that's why our offers beat everybody else's offers how do you start out your your webinars that's a great question I can give an example if you want me to yeah please do it give the best thing away for free so sell something else and then leave your very best thing as a bonus doesn't always work this way but it usually does when Russell learned that from me he changed his webinar to the one that it

became that launched clickfunnels to the level that it it ended up being with that webinar that's really cool to know that because well I I I didn't know anything about this and I don't get the credit very often yeah well now you do only here on V podcast for for so let's begin J thank you so much for being here uh I'm I'm really a big fan of yours I read your book one to many and you recommended me that I buy your gold webinars I didn't buy it yet but it's on my Cho list

so I can learn learn more from you I have my webinar here in Brazil and basically I just studed you and also Russell Branson and yep you guys are my biggest references here so the first question that I wanted to ask you is why why why do you think that you are so so well known um for this webinar thing why you're so famous did how did you learn how how did you get so good at webinars yeah uh I got lucky in the sense that I started webinars in 2008 yeah so when you do

something for 16 years even if you're idiot yeah you a broken clock is right twice a day right so I uh I I got in very early so that was one of the reasons that I I got good another reason is because uh it naturally lends itself to my strengths yeah I love to teach uh teaching brings me a lot of Joy um I have no fear of speaking in front of an audience I've never had and I've been a performer since I was like seven I used to rap in front of of audiences when

I was seven years old that's so that's so interesting I also like to rap here in Brazil oh wow that's awesome that's yeah my first career what got me into the internet business was I was doing music and trying to sell my music and that didn't work too well so I was like how do you sell things and then I looked up how to sell things and then I discovered the internet and then I tried some things to sell and and then once I saw webinars starting to come up where the internet was now fast

enough to support webinars and the technology was stable enough now here's one of the benefits that I had which is exciting for people listening is I had the benefit of a fresh pair of eyes yeah um when I started webinars I had maybe made $50,000 or maybe $70,000 online maybe a little bit more but I don't think so I had just started to succeed on the internet so anybody else at that time that was trying to do webinars they were trying to take what they were good at over here and then bring it over to

webinars so people that were good at selling on stages they're like well I'll kind of do that on a webinar and that works okay and people that were you using teles seminars which was really popular then because the internet could could handle a phone you call in and you listen to Somebody pitch on a phone for an hour that's a Tes seminar they would then try to just add slides to it because I was never good at teleseminars and never had done one and because I had never sold from stage before or even have ever

been on one where I was doing a business thing I was rapping on stages but not doing business on stages uh I was able to start completely from scratch um so I could test and try and experiment and do things very freshh I think like Tesla when they got into the automotive space they didn't have a hundred years of experience so they question what everybody else took for granted like yeah they used the first principl approach yeah what's that they they use the first principles approach to eliminate stupid stuff and actually you know get the

result faster and better yeah so they're like why does a handle have to stick out why can't it retract and and then show based on whatever and I'm like okay I can do that like with webinars I had a blank slate to start with and so yeah that's what helped let me ask you a question but uh I didn't know that you actually were like a performer and and you did rap that that's really interesting yeah but I think that you also have a solid direct response background right uh because at least from from what

I studied from you you really know marketing you really no copy so do you think that to have success in webinars you need to have both you need to be good at copy to actually write a good webinar or you think it's better to just be a performer or you actually need both of them what's your opinion about that I think you need both so 2007 is where I learned how to do copyrighting and then 2008 is when I was able to uh figure out how to take copy which is written words on a page

and make them come to life in a webinar present ation and most copywriters that I know the reason they're good at copy is because they're terrible at speaking so so so they make up for it because they can't sell anybody face to face so they sell everybody without looking at anybody um and so the fundamentals are important but then translating the fundamentals from one form which is on a page to another form which is spoken was the difference for me when it became when I became very successful is understanding how people buy and why they

buy so I'll give you one one one example please um people buy not when you educate them more this is a this is a problem a lot of people have they think if I just teach you more stuff then you'll be more likely to buy from me and that's not true because if you teach them more stuff you teach them more ways in which they can become confused yeah and if they're confused then they start to freeze up and then they don't make any decision even a decision that would be good for them so we

actually want to teach them less but what we want to do is transform them so not information transformation so we have to transform them from What's the limit that stops them from buying and how do we remove that limit and when I understood that that's when my webinars completely changed and that was one of the reasons we had such big breakthroughs in every Market that we touched [Music] [Music] [Music] for [Music] for that's really interesting to be honest right now my thinking is that if you teach someone and they actually learn something they will see

you as someone that that knows what you're talking about someone that has credibility I remember that I saw a vssl by Frank Kar and he told that hey in this vsl I'm going to prove that I can help you by actually helping you yeah so yeah so so in my mind I always thought okay I need to have a good solid content to make people you know believe in me to so they can know that I I can actually help them y but uh from from what I studied from you what I one of the

takeaways I don't know if I'm if I'm wrong if I am please correct me but one of the takeaways that I got is that you don't you you can't teach a lot because you confuse them so it's bad and the teaching is more like to just make them animated to to buy more like in in a emotional um how can I say that like be more emotionally prepared to buy and this is something very tricky because I never done that in the past uh I'm I'm usually very good at vsls but this kind of teaching

is is really different do you have any tips that people can Implement on their webinars to actually create this kind of content that can inspire people to buy but at the same way don't make them confused yeah so teaching has its place it's probably 20% of the result comes from teaching people think it's like 80% so it's no it's like 20% the value of teaching is it proves that you can teach something to somebody so they're like okay he gives me better Insight than other people on the subject and so that will make them see

you as an authority that's helpful um teaching is also helpful in the sense of if somebody's doing something wrong and you teach them how to not do it wrong then they're grateful because you've saved them pain and you've saved them struggle so that's useful too but think about this metaphor um you walk into a room you flip the light switch on and the Miracle of electricity occurs right in front of your very eyes at the speed of light literally which is the fastest speed in the entirety of the universe you have just evoked the miracle

of lighting a room by flipping a switch right yeah I don't know electricity I don't know how to wire up a light switch I don't know what thing to connect to what I don't know what current I don't know any of this stuff I'm not an electrician but I have a light switch so when you sell don't teach them how to be electricians give them light switches and that's the secret to all my cell success and then if I have the light switch so this is your offer or some component of your offer some deliverable

that you give to somebody then all you really need to do is get them to understand the value of what that light switch is get them to believe you have that light switch and then you show them the light switch but everybody's teaching people how to be electricians when everybody mostly just wants the light switch yeah that's true that's really interesting since we're talking about that Jason how do you create these irresistible offers that have that have this like light switch inside of them because that's a huge part of the webinar right to create these

offers you are absolutely right so if we were to chop down a tree and I gave you a really dull axe you'd be there all day but if I gave you a super sharp Axe and you could swing it even not even that hard you could chop that tree down really fast so like the offer is the axe and then you swinging it is the webinar and before we ever write a webinar we want the best offer possible cuz that makes everything else easy year and so there's a lot of factors that come into an

irresistible offer um this is you know if you ever read the book hundred million offers by Alex Heros I did yeah I'm the most quoted person in that book uh and I have a testimonial from Alex who says my course on webinars was the single greatest thing he ever bought on offer creation right so uh certainly what I know has impacted the world and has now reached over a million people through Alex um so I have a lot to say on the subject and I'll try to keep it as simple as possible is here's the

biggest secret to an offer people might buy if they see all the benefits wow it can make me better in this way I can grow in this way it will help me become my future self in these ways they might buy but everybody will buy 100% of the time if they don't have any risk whatsoever so if we can get rid of the risks then we'll get 100% of the buyers but if we can't get rid of the risk we will only get a certain percentage of the buyers so if I said to you hey

I guarantee that if you give me $5,000 right now I will give you $50,000 in six months if you believed me and if you trusted me you would 100% of the time give me $5,000 even if you didn't have $55,000 on you you would find friends family members you would donate kidneys you would do whatever you could yeah if you were 100% certain that if you gave me $5,000 I would give you $50,000 back okay now on the flip side if you were only 50% certain that if you gave me 5,000 I would give you

a million doll back then my close rate on that would be way less Les than the than $50,000 back on 5,000 so even though the upside is not as high the downside is gone yeah and so at the at the center of every great offer whether people realize it or not is risk mitigation the more we minimize risk the better our offer will be so every component that I put into the offer every deliverable every thing that they get is first to eliminate risk and then second get some gains out of it so interestingly enough

the things we offer don't make as big as promises because we can't because we're limiting what we can promise because we have to lose a little bit of that outcome to remove as much of the risk as possible and that's why our offers beat everybody else's offers M that's really interesting I I never thought of that way in the in the book Alex he talks about the the value equation right where he says that if you have something that gives instant results with extremely low effort people will buy ideally people can we Analyze That of

course go ahead so instant results the longer it takes to get something the more ways it can go wrong yeah so if you shorten the timeline of the result you increase the certain you decrease the risk now when you shorten the result the timeline you have to shorten the outcome like I can't make you a million dollars tomorrow but if I can make you $2 tomorrow and you felt that was true I would sell more of that offer than I would follow this course and you might be a millionaire in a year versus follow this

course and you'll make $2 tomorrow I would sell more of that second course of $2 tomorrow than I would to that first course because the timeline is so little so it decreases risk when you said you know an immediate relief right somebody that gets relief the risk uh is to the longer you hold pain the worse it becomes and so the risk is how much pain am I going to have to endure before I get this result if we can get rid of that pain or minimize it then we decrease the risk of the exposure

to the pain and so that's that's what makes the offer so good this is one of my webinars last time I did did it it converted at 30% and it teaches people how to create info products and the whole premise of the webinar is I want you to create pro products that we call one problem one solution products so you solve only one problem you provide only one solution to it and and here's here's the catch you have to create the product in one sitting so they're usually like six page ebooks or nine page ebooks

or they're like a one hour audio shot straight off the cuff right and I tell them and you have to sell it at a low low price $4 $5 $7 and I show them that model teach it to them and then we sell them a course on every product creation secret I know for 500 bucks and that thing converted last time at 30% when the whole core of it is start by selling really cheap products which is not how anybody else teaches it now yeah now we we do a dou pull your money back guarantee

there so talk about risk reversal I say hey if if you do X Y and Z and you don't make ,000 then I'll pay you $1,000 so that's a risk reversal not only will they get their money back for the course they'll get compensated for their time now there's conditions but nonetheless I also do another thing I say here's three products that I've created already that you get resell rights to now I can 100% guarantee that by the time you complete this course you will have a product that you can sell because I will give

you my product to sell and so that reduces the risk of what if I never get a product live to sell well I've given you products is it perfect no it's my products not yours right um but it reduces the risk of going through and having a course that you take and not having anything at the end of it so a so a reseller opportunity is really powerful there um so these are some of the ways and there's other ways too right but these are some of the ways as we reduce the time frame we

reduce out outcome but they are now more believable that they can achieve the outcome and this is at the heart of it why the cell is so good and the bonuses I have other bonuses all of those bonuses are aimed at killing very specific objections that would stop people from buying Y and from what I understand you need to lower the all the risk associated with your product with execution with with the amount of time that people uh take to to to actually get the result but for example if you're selling I don't know maybe

supplements uh you kind of have a limit to that right because yeah there just so much that you can decrease the risk so true in your opinion you think that selling this kind of things in the first place is not something that you would want to do like it would be preferable to go into info products than supplements maybe no not at all you think about that so here's how I would soled for this we won't get the answer today but at least we'll open up the thinking of how we figure these things out right

yeah I would say let's say the supplements are a hundred bucks a month that they have to pay for yeah I would say well what why are they taking the supplements for well they want this specific outcome okay I said is there other ways I can help them get that outcome now what if there were other ways where I could go to third party providers that would have other resources that would also help them with the outcome that the the supplements offer and then I say when you buy my supplements you get a free gym

membership here you get a free use of sauna over here you get free education over here you get free thing over there I'm just making this up right and now the user was like oh my God I was either going to buy those things anyway or I'm already paying for those things so now it's more expensive for me not to buy the supplements then it would be for me to buy the supplements okay now that's the thought process that's it's not as easy as that sounds because you're going to have to work out well how

can I give them this deliverable to also help them how do I do it in a way where it doesn't cost me a lot of time and money myself but those are to me fun problems to solve for because if you can make an offer where people feel it's more expensive to not own it then you will sell a 100% of them all the time yeah now the now you have to help them understand that which is why the the webinar is like an hour hour and a half long before you would make such an

offer uh but but if you had that offer then then it would be exciting to figure out what needs to come in front of it so they can understand it so when they see the offer they're like oh my God it cost me more not to buy it yeah uh Jason first of all thank you for the answer but one one question that I'm still having is for example when I was watching Russell's on clickfunnels the one with the headline this weird funnel makes 7 very well I'll tell you a story about it yeah you

want to tell it now or later yeah let's tell it now uh do it so the first year clickfunnels was live they were losing money they weren't making money uh they couldn't give it away for a dollar trial it was like a hundred bucks to give away a dollar trial and advertising cost maybe even more and then Russell uh studied something that I said in a program of mine that he had um and what I did because we started selling software way back in 2011 what I discovered was and this is a principle that's true

in a lot of ways give the best thing away for free so sell something else and then leave your very best thing as a bonus doesn't always work this way but it usually does um and so you have to think if clickfunnels was the very best thing he could sell he could say when you buy clickfunnels today uh you can start you pick your membership option there's a you know silver gold Platinum level you know 99 to 300 bucks a month so you got to now choose a b and c right okay that's a problem

but there's more to it than that right and then you have to explain all the ins and outs of clickfunnels and how it works and yada yada yada and it makes it very hard to sell because people now want to know all specifics around clickfunnels what what option should I take what happens if I cancel y y y okay they get too into the thing you're selling specifically because you're putting the spotlight on it so what I had told him because I've learned this selling software is I said make this software the free bonus because

now the pitch can be we'll just give you the highest level version and then after six months of using it for free because I'm going to give it to you for six months then you can pick the version you want based on your usage so we remove the risk of a wrong decision so and if it's $300 a month and I can give you and the original way he sold it was this for 12 months you get 12 months of clickfunnels for free at the $300 a month level that's $3600 of retail value for free

when you buy his $2,000 course so what he sold was a course on traffic and if you bought his course on traffic for 2000 you got $3600 worth of software for free that you had 12 months to do whatever you wanted with before you had to figure out if you wanted to keep it or not and what level you wanted to use for it so when one when Russell learned that from me he changed his webinar to the one that it became that launched clickfunnels to the level that it it ended up being with that

webinar it was when he gave away the best thing for free when they bought something else that's when that webinar changed forever and that came from um a training that I did that he studied that's really cool to know that because well I I I didn't know anything about this and I don't get the credit very often yeah well now you do only here on VOR podcast now your story is being told so yeah I've been telling it a lot more lately and he credits me in the book now but originally we had a we

had work that out yeah what were you going to say about it because I'm interested well I'm actually running the almost the same kind of of webinar structure I also give VB for free and I also sell some some products I was trying to model the way R grew clickfunnels he recently published a book called The Lynch pin book something like this yep and yeah the main thing was that on the than you page you should give something called The Myth G which is basically a a trial to your your software yep and then yep

so trial by the way is a great great way to reverse risk yeah exactly but the thing is that the way that I created the offer was just I saw how many products Russa was selling and he sells four products and the software and then and then he he makes the value goes to around 10,000 USD and then he sells for 1,000 USD almost that right yep and so so I did the same thing but uh to be honest I don't know if for example when I created the offer if I should add more products

to to the main offer like or should I just have the yeah but but but but why why not what what if if the if the main goal is to lower risk why can't we add more stuff why should we just make it because you could potentially increase risk okay and this is funny it's it's it takes a while to figure this stuff out um and I've made every mistake before I learned that's that's how I learned every lesson right so uh let's pretend that I had a magic secret selling clothes that if you understood

it you would close as many cells as you ever possibly could there was one close that was the magic greatest close in the history of selles closes okay yeah and if you buy this close for me today I'll give you 366 other closes that you can use as well do you see the problem with such a pitch if I were to make that offer yeah of course yeah I got it because if my one pitch was so good why would you need the other 366 so if I had the specific answer for you in one

course why would you need 50 more hours of lessons that's a risk on your time to go and study all that extra stuff and it makes you question the validity of the very thing that you're selling now this is why I love marketing so much um if I give away 10 courses that's not good because it's more of the same it's like a 100 closes why why do you need a 100 when one would do right but if I give away a course a template an sop a standard operating procedure if I give away uh

a one-on-one consult if I give away a community if I give away and then you just keep stacking other what we call modalities now I'm not giving away 10 of the same thing I'm giving away 10 different things and now users are like whoa this is great because if I have trouble learning it then I can just use the template and if the template doesn't work for me then I can get the coaching to help me help me implement it and if I run into problems then I have the community that can help me and

support me uh and so the trick is more people when they stack an offer they stack it with more of the same as opposed to increasing the different types of deliverables um now there is a few instances where more the same as the preferred method but nine out of 10 time by the way supplements is one of those cases if I say Hey listen you bought a bottle if you want to buy 12 more bottles I'll give you a huge discount on it because you know you don't want to have to remember to reorder every

single month anyway when you run out so now I'm making your life easier and I'm giving you a discount and that's that's good that's one of the rare cases where more of the same works good but if I say for example I have this great software that's going to help you out and here's 15 other software too you're like oh my God I got to learn 15 software now no thank you and so what we want to do is we want to spread through with the different deliverables to increase the value there however with that

said if it's not a he yes then it's a no I don't want to add any bonus or anything that won't make my audience say hell yes I want that it's got to it's got to really uh earn its right to be in my offer got it got it well there there are some offers that people do where they just gave you they just give you everything that they made in their whole life for example you can buy this FR curent lifetime deal then you have I don't know 20 curses Mass control info blueprint that

kind of stuff and I think that I know because I'm the guy who buys this these things and I also think that I bought one from Jay abrahan lifetime deal or something I don't remember it's been a long time ago what do you think is is the rationale Behind These offers do you think they are good for webinar or maybe for other kind of media or or how do you this there's a saying in the United States called the exception that proves the rule uh here's what that means it means it's so rare that you

see that work yeah that it tells you that that's probably not a good idea so it's got to be exceptional if you're going to use it as strategy so Jay Abraham who's a Consulting client of mine he's paid me over the years um to do different Consulting projects for him um so I know Jay well and he's a friend um Jay has done this for longer than I've been alive so he's built up a lot of Ip and a lot of reputation so if he wants to very easily on his end because it doesn't take

him much effort put it all together in a package and sell it to you at a huge discount that's smart because the effort that it took him is minimal and you have a wow factor of value because of who he is as a person so that's hard to replicate it can be made to work and I again I know Jay that's never been any it's not in his top 10 best marketing campaigns of all time right and Frank is the same way in our space Frank is an uh original one of the first to do

it gurus and he's built up a reputation over the years and he's built up a lot of different what we call IP intellectual property so if he wants to at any point in time he can throw it all together in a package offer it at a huge discount and he could sell it well but Mass control I guarantee you sold more units than any bundle package he's ever created in his life and I don't know what his other products names are I can't remember off the top of my head I've bought a lot of them

but he's done many launches those individual launches selling one of those products uh have sold more than any than his his bundle wouldn't make his top 10 marketing launches right so it's good to do if you're looking for uh very little effort in to make some money and you have a long catalog because you've been at this this game for a long time but it is not the soundest marketing uh it's not the best marketing to do if you want to make that real killer offer got it got it oh that's really cool and well

one time that I just did is that well I just saw Russell's success with that offer and then I thought okay I'm going to do something like this I didn't had in my mind all this hey I need to decrease risk and everything yep so the the idea the ideal would be to to actually know what's working in the market right so you got a benchmark but also have this base H base knowledge to so you actually know what you're doing right that would be the the ideal thing yep okay if you think about it

think about it like this um if you have a whole bunch of ingredients to cook a meal but you don't have the recipe then you can say well I saw so and so use this and put this in a pot and you know put this on the stove and mix them together and if all the ingredients are really good you might cook a good meal that's a lot of marketers right they have a lot of good ingredients so they mix it together and then they make a good meal but much better would be if you

understood the recipe and so you want both ideally you want the right recipe and the right ingredients and and you want to have the skill of a chef those are the three things required right so what happens unfortunately is a lot of people will model what Russell did not know what to model about it most of them that try to model him will fail yeah a few will succeed and then they'll tell everybody just model him and they won't even know why they succeeded and that's that's the issue with marketing it's also what makes marketing

fascinating cuz here's the difference like what Russell was doing at the time was was the first of its kind essentially so if you did the same thing today in a market that had 15 competitors I would have a different strategy but Russell didn't have 15 competitors for his thing so his so his marketing didn't have to account for all the substitutes um and so people will take strategy in in a new emerging market and then they'll apply it to an already establish market and then when it doesn't work they'll get very confused well wrong strategy

for the wrong Market um so so you have to know the you have to know the fundamentals underneath of it so the fundamental of him making the best part of his offer the bonus that's a that's an ingredient that you would want to know how to cook with and so when you sat down to cook you would say this is a potential ingredient that we could use but most people modeling these campaigns aren't even aware of that's one of the reasons that made it so incredibly powerful uh another reason is and this is again often

this is software only specifically related is he's he's demonstrating the thing he's also selling you so if I was teaching you a course on weight loss and I was super fat I don't care how well I pitch it right yeah you ain't buying uh so so the strategies that you use when you can be the thing that you're selling are very specific and they're different than the strategies that you can that you that you would use in other scenarios right so what I mean by that is he's a marketer teaching you marketing he's using a

funnel to show you how to use funnels uh so my strategy in those situations makes a lot of sense like on how I would use certain ingredients in those situations uh but there's a lot of products most produ you can't sell that way I can't be a supplement teaching supplements how to use supplements right like you don't get that same strategy selling supplements so you have to use a different strategy for that so I unfortunately I see a lot of people modeling marketing without understanding the context around it and that's why it's so important that

you understand the fundamentals I agree 100% what what do you think is the best way to actually know the the fundamentals you need to study the old School copyrighting guys like I don't know Gary Harbert Robert ker these guys or do you think that maybe we have today some other resources that that people can go to and study it yeah um study's got to be a a certain part of it for sure um but what you have to do is when you're starting is narrow your focus um and really be very clear on learning one

fundamental until you can do it in your sleep right so it'll be different for different people but like Zoom really into one thing and get so good at it it becomes effortless and then expand on it now here's what's cool about this so my first money I made on the internet was Article writing I would write articles people would pay me to write articles and then they would post those articles on their blogs and on their websites uh I was a Ghostwriter I got really good at writing very specific kinds of articles for 400 isword

articles that had a certain percentage of of keyword density on certain keyword phrases so they could rank more on their blogs in Google very very specific right so I got incredibly good at the fundamentals of what the structure of that article would look like here's another fundamental I picked up along the way the ability to write consistently day in and day out and output a th000 2,000 3,000 4,000 words a day so the fundamental yeah the fundamental production okay very very hard and then it becomes easy when it becomes natural so then when I became

a copywriter guess what one thing I didn't have to fight against yeah writer's block I didn't fear the blank page I could write my writing wasn't good at first for copy but I could at least write and so then what I got good at was a very specific type of sales letter and it was a sales letter to sell low ticket products and then once I got good at low ticket products you know you still need a hook you still need a lead you still need uh to know how to write bullet points right those

kind of things once I got good at that then I I traded up I call this trading up then I say okay if I'm now good at copyrighting in this way then I started writing vsls and similar but different than than written copy uh and and so you keep trading up skills and so what happens is when you get go out fundamentals and you can trade up I got really good at selling onetoone selling uh and so that at the heart of it is still a skill set that I use in every application of every

marketing campaign that I do to this very day um and so what you want to do is pick something that is going to be super valuable forever and then apply it in a certain certain specific way so writing being able to write 4,000 words a day that's always going to be valuable um and then then you add another thing on top of it and another thing on top of it and pretty soon you got a base you started off your first year and you were worthless and by your second year you were worth a million

dollars because once you acred enough of these things and connected them together that's the tip that's where you tip over the Tipping Point where you go from I'm running up against the wall and hurting my head to I ran up against the wall enough that I broke through it and all of a sudden it now seems like God it was never that hard to succeed well not now not now because you up the base yeah of course yeah got it so since we're talking about that what what what is what do you think that is

the main difference besides uh I I mean I mean the main difference from these formats webinars vssl that kind of stuff besides the the the format of course because in a vsl you're going to say stuff in some way in a webinar you're going to say stuff in some other way but usually a vsl is shorter than a webinar a webinar is longer so do do you think there is like a big different in Psychology from the the vssl to the webinar or is mostly the communication that is longer on the webinar or or how

do you see this um good question um a lot of it is similar but you know you take the word closer like you want to be a closer and you take the word loser they're they're very similar onel difference right so so the difference between being a loser and being a closer is one letter and the English language at least I don't know how that will translate into Portuguese but uh nonetheless uh so you know a great offer will sell as well as in a it will sell great in a vssl it'll sell great in

a webinar right yeah um the right Market somebody a dying of thirst we don't even need a webinar or a vssl we just say you want a drink and sold right uh so the market will be uh largely determinant on whether you would use a vssl or a webinar the offer would be whether would use a A vssl or a webinar um here's what a webinar can do that a that a vssl won't do as well a webinar can can train and give insight to people above and beyond just as it relates to a problem

so a vssl typically is here's your problem here's why it's terrible here's why it's going to get worse here's all the issues that are are you didn't even think about now that I've scared you out of your mind buy this product so you're no longer scared uh that's very simplified version of the vssl yeah the webinar is like hey I'm going to show you things today that are going to make your life better so you no longer suffer from these problems now that I've shown you these things you have to decide if you want to

use them on your own or if you want to invest with me to solve this problem together um and that's that's generally the difference between those two so for things that require specific insights first uh I I would prefer a webinar over a vssl for things where you can just come at them and just hit them with benefits and pain points then I prefer vssl typically the more expensive the product the better it will perform on a webinar um and also demonstrations so the best webinar campaign we ever did it did $57 million in 226

days and at the part of it we were able to do a demonstration and the demonstration went as follows we had 18 people beta test this process um in the financial market and we got an agreement that they signed that said we can show your results to anyone at any time and their results were transparent in a third party software so as long as they had a share URL to their portfolio we could get on a webinar and say Here's the 18 people that paid us $10,000 to work this system here is every one of

their results right now actively right in front of your eyes and as you watch it the numbers change because it's live in real time if I did that demonstration on a vssl it wouldn't land as well because you're like it's pre-recorded it's faked it could be staged um not to say you couldn't fake something like that on the webinar but it would be way harder and so people aren't going to believe that it's faked it's it has more imp when you can demonstrate it live on a webinar and so if if for products where we

can do demonstrations the webinar also makes more sense here's the other thing I like about webinars and people hate this and I don't know why because they must hate money but the most the the best thing about a webinar is you can answer questions at the end of it so I don't care how good your webinar is most people will not buy your product uh when you make your pitch on the webinar so in that $57 million launch uh we only quote unquote only closed 6.82% of our leads so out of everybody that opted in

only six out of 100 people said yes meaning 94 people out of a 100 said no and this is some of the finest marketing that the internet has ever seen it's set the record in the space which continues to stand to this very day 94 said no after all that marketing right but originally 99 said no and then I said Hey listen uh you're still here so we got to help you figure out if you should invest in this or not and then we'd answer a question and then we'd close and then we'd answer another

question then we would close and so these webinars would typically run three or four hours long and I love that part of the webinar media and you can't get that anywhere else online as easily where you literally are doing closes and if I'm closing you but the person next to you can hear it I can also close them even though I'm talking to you and in some instances it's more effective because if I can be indirect with you about your problem you can hear me better than if I'm only direct with you and I give

them both options and so most of my webinars are spent doing closes you want to buy no okay what about this Insight now do you want to buy no okay how about looking at it from this way now do you want to buy yes and then now you go to the next audience I mean the rest of the people on the audience okay the rest of you why are you still here and then he said maybe it's because of this reason now do you want to buy no now do you want to buy okay yes

finally I'll buy right and that's how most of the sales are made on a webinar yeah and that's crazy because when I do my webinars I usually spend maybe 1 Hour 1 hour and a half on the actual content and then on on the actual webinar the maintain the pitch and then I have another maybe 1 Hour 1 hour and a half only answering questions in people they always have question and it's crazy because I make a lot of sales when I say hey click the button but I also make maybe 30 40% of the

sales on the webinar I I make on on this questions alone that I just keep uh like answering people 100% Jon uh ju just assuming that people will actually want to do webinars and not just via sales when when I start doing my webinar when when I start creating my webinars the first that I do is to create the actual content of the webinar because to me I think it's the most important part is like the meat of of the webinar and then out of that I can create the lead of the webinar and all

the other stuff so do do you do the same thing or how how do you start out your your webinars that's a great question um I wouldn't necessarily recommend anybody do it the way that I do it now uh because the way I do it now is wherever the thing hits me to start so some webinars I'll start with the offer first and work backwards uh others I'll start with the content and sometimes I'll get an inspiration for the lead and then I'll start uh with the lead and but when I was if you want

to do this right at the beginning you should discipline yourself is start it with the offer and then you can work backwards because your content should be based on how all the content that I'm going to show somebody needs to put them in the best state of mind to understand the value so you would want to work backwards here's the value how do I put them in the best state of mind to understand that so so you write the offer first you write the content second then you write the transition of how you're going to

transition from the content to the offer and then the last thing you would do is write the lead because you can review everything you wrote and you say how do I get people so hooked in the first few minutes to this thing uh that they can't ever possibly imagine leaving and so it's easy to write a lead in a hook when you can look at everything you're going to do after that versus it's so hard this is a problem people have is they write the hook first but they don't know what they're hooking people to

yeah yeah that's crazy that's really interesting your content should make people understand the value of your offer yep that that really summarizes what what it needs to do right I really like it yeah I can give an example if you want me to yeah please do it yeah so um let me think of a really good one we used to have we used to saw this software um Well here here's a perfect one this is an Amazon so this is a partner of ours where I'm just the pitch person I write the webinar and then

I pitch the webinar and then they give me 20% of the royalties essentially of the sales it's a sweet gig I don't have to create the product itself I don't have to support it I don't have to drive the traffic to it I'm just the spokes person of it um and at the core of it they teach people an Amazon uh process of reselling products on Amazon and part of that resell process goes like this um you go out and you look at products and then you say I want to be a reseller of this

product you say this is how many people are currently reselling it this is the price the product retails for um this is the margin I can expect on this product and then we run a math formula so uh how many units are this product gets sold per month what's the margin on it um what's the price on it so times those three things together then we divide it amongst all the resellers and we say cool if I sold this product I could make $2,670 per month if I was also a reseller um and and so

then you try to become a reseller you go to the guy the brand or the representative and you say hey I'd like to resell your product how do we make that happen uh so the offer teaches them this process now by the way when they first brought it to me they only taught them how to do that manually so the first thing that we did is we said let's build a software tool so we built a little Chrome extension so when you did an Amazon search you pushed a button and on all the results it

did the math equation for you it said okay there's this many sellers we can remove these types of sellers so there's only this many left uh because these are the true resellers because we'd have to teach them how to do that and then this is the price of the product this is the margin divide it by this and if you could be a reseller this is how much it would be worth to you so the manual process took like you know two to 5 minutes per product maybe 10 minutes of product especially if you a

beginner and now in 2 seconds you could get a whole page one result of any search that you wanted to or any you know then you hit page two push the button again you could see a whole page two result right got it so here's here's how I did this webinar here's how the content set up that offer I spent 35 minutes teaching people how to do it manually and here's where it gets better I first got them to a agree with me if I showed you a process even if it took you a little

bit of time and even if you had to learn some math because God forbid nobody wants to learn math right would you commit to me to do it if you felt it would help you be successful on Amazon yes Jason I absolutely would okay good here it is then we show him the whole process and then I check back in with him I say okay now that I showed you do you see yourself doing this do you think you could do this uh 50 do you think you could find 50 products this way are you

willing to do this even though it might take you an hour a day can you see how valuable this is and everybody's like yeah yeah this is so valuable now imagine what happens when a when a little later and I start to reveal the offer and then I reveal that app yeah push the button remember this thing I showed you earlier what if it was as easy as this click all the results right yeah yeah you want the app you you can't buy it I'm sorry it doesn't exist on the market however you can get

it for free when you sign up for blah blah blah so the whole content was a setup so they could best understand one bonus in the whole entirety of the offer and here's what's great about selling this way you could still do it manually you don't have to buy the product so nobody feels like their time was wasted or that something was withheld from them I'm actually giving more value than every other webinar out there and I and and I can give it freely because like I if you were willing to work that hard then

you would be stupid not to pay a small amount of money to have it automated for you it's like yes you can cut your own hair and you can sew your own clothes but most of us go to Barbers and most of us buy our clothes from the store right like we just we got to help people get in that mind state to understand the cost of free or the cost of the effort so they can compare it to the cost of buying the product so that's that's an example there's so many more that I

could teach yeah that's really cool and thank you for this example um I can see that you are a really good salesman because you actually make people confirm so hey if this were true would you like to go with me on this and everything and this is something that I think is a big advantage that that that you have other other people that just study internet marketing and don't don't have this sales skills but Jason H I would like you I would like to thank you for your time I know that you only have one

hour so we we have uh three more minutes here and I would like to ask you how can people learn more about you about your content how how can they interact more with you is there like I don't know maybe somewhere that you post content I that you have a book that you will appear right now on the screen people it's called one so many oh it's this one I just so happen to have one hand it's most coincidental thing yeah I was going to ask my video editor to put it there but now it's

it's even better so guys I I already read this book it was lifechanging everyone here in Brazil that bought my uh SC scale my offer it it's the name of my info product I use the exact same framework that Jon teaches in this book so I highly recommend it but I would like to to learn from you to hear from you Jason where can people actually know more about you interact with you and everything yeah so first sk the book one to many it's on Amazon so the book is called one to many and then

follow me on Instagram uh I have Believe It or Not For All My Success uh online I have done no social media until like about a year ago so I am am just starting uh and I'm I'm struggling and it's fun to be a beginner that's what I am on Instagram uh so hit me up uh on Instagram yeah guys you you can do that and one thing that I noticed is that you're very accessible because I don't know I I met you at the adapted Summit and I got your your WhatsApp we started talking

and thank you so much for that you really are like a hero to me because I learned a lot from you I would like to to meet these guys from from the US that sort of created everything so to me you are my number number one reference when it comes to to webinars and yeah maybe one day I'll go to the us and we can talk again so that's it guys this is was the other podcast that I did in English the first one was with Stefan it will appear here on the screen too this

one if you like it please share okay and if you don't just say it in the comments so maybe we can get better and yeah you want to say the last thing Jason maybe a Farwell message or something so my business partner he's from Brazil originally um Max and yeah no so we did a deal with Max though we did but my partner's name is Will Matos and will originally from Brazil uh so if you leave a bad comment he'll know what it says and who can translate it to me so don't do that only

good comments right but we met because we came to Sal Paulo and I spoke at at an event that Max Peters put on and that was really good to connect with you and my goal is to have an impact in this world and nothing pleases me more than people hearing what I say doing it and then sharing the result with me so Alls I ask is once you put into action what I shared with you today and you get a result that you're excited about please share it with me nothing makes me happier than hearing

how I can help other people help other people awesome so that's it thank you so much J for fore