YouTube’s Top Editor Reveals How He Landed a Job Editing for MrBeast

I have to be very arrogant and admit I didn't really learn anything myself from the Mr Beast Camp because I thought a lot of their philosophies were the exact opposite of what I consider good content do you find before it was hard for you to sit through a Mr Beast video I would prefer to have been grinding my and sanding my teeth with Logan and or maybe also a little bit of Jimmy I was getting the footage and I was being reactive the footage was actually in charge as I've been growing and maturing I've been

finding the intent of what I want the video to be and now I'm in charge there's this one line in The Incredibles that I also live by and it's that feeling of like when everyone's super no one is and I kind of Follow That same philosophy when everything is fast none of it is I thought you were going to be like where's my Super SU ID did a big speech at an event called vid Summit where I was like Hey guys all the content you're making is [ __ ] and let me tell you why

and then Jimmy went well [ __ ] you then put your money away in Malice here's a job basically Jimmy being the evil mastermind gave me a mortal enemy and then it was like me and his job to be consistently every single day arguing on how the video should be edited and then over time we would then end up finding the middle ground when I do see a cinematic drone opening shot that's not particularly related to the title and thumbnail what that tells me is that you're prioritizing yourself as a filmmaker and showing off how

good you are rather than actually telling me a good story that's actually probably the biggest mistake I do see putting ego as a filmmaker first rather than is this actually going to be a good story and content [Music] give me the one-handed crack okay you ready so I'm time so wait wait you didn't you got to sit it down again you're scaring me okay okay pick it up and then and then yes now go and I'm going to do a direct eye Conta to you no way yes dude Michael Jordan style let's [ __ ]

go D oh my God I even Dent like I was at raging water he owned it he was like yeah I see see how that one was just perfect right around there three 32 on the one over here dude I can't do this like a 7 Seven 22 that one was awful 1.5 new low record record from Che I'm going to I'm going to give myself points because this you can see the effort in yeah you can see human did that we just making up rules and it's all good dude thanks for coming out here

Cheers Cheers Cheers Cheers Che nice drink I like this more these I'm mostly a lroy person so I'm liking all these different versions and you just got a lot of drinks out on the table you're dial in oh yeah absolutely I got this drink I got my coffee I got my water the only thing that's missing is a whiskey yeah we can whip that up dude I think we get that happen go for a whiskey if we start getting deep and emotional this is when we bring out the whiskey yes if we need to make

it really intense dud so what what have you been working on recently what have you been cooking up in the lab so I think it's been a really interesting past couple years of me trying to navigate essentially this new step in my career and I think I haven't quite committed to the singular Direction just yet I've just been experimenting with all of it but right now since I've spent the past few years building the business I'm now getting back into actually editing so uh I've just finished a and so for me it's that I've done

the ringer I've done the daytoday grind 12h hour days doing a bunch of videos that we don't want to be doing and so for me approaching 30 I want to be doing the videos that I'm excited to make hell it's like I'm fed up of content that you're just obligated to do so what this means then is that maybe I'll only really work maybe twice a year [ __ ] yeah on big on big deal big projects take an extended period of time so if someone reaches out hey can you edit a short [ __

] off you know hey can you can you edit this Vlog for me no I've done that piss off you know like hey I've I hey I've just filmed this amazing documentary we've had we where we've done this this this this and this and I'm like oh this looks fascinating how long do you want me this is going to be a two three month project let's [ __ ] go I just want that deep stuff that gets me excited that gives me that really good reason when I'm waking up at 7:00 a.m. and I'm like

this is going to be a really good creative day you're a 7: a.m. kind of guy you're not a late night SK we call those sketch boy hours the hours between like 12 and 3 so are you morning Guy what's the vibe I think I want to be a morning guy but what it is around around 11: or 12 my body is like that's it you're done that's it go to bed and then and then I probably work I'll struggle to get out of bed till like 8 or 9 I am an 8 hour and

night guy if I do not get those eight hours the I will right off that day straight away I'm [ __ ] you and Billy would get along very well you should you should see my whoop score today it's like a 59 I'm like struggling I'm like we can we postpone this podcast I didn't get a good sleep I've gotten sketchier dude I'm staying up late I'm waking up whenever dude yeah I'm like a little beat right now but dude podcast comes on I missed the red light dud that's what I realized in the car

I was like God I'm out of it but I missed the red light dude I'm ready to go are you no alarm just whenever dude I've been kind of just like living my life I don't know so how do you think our our dads do it cuz my dad dude 4:00 a.m. rolls around and he just like levitates out of the bed and I'm just like does that happen when you hit 50 you get older you don't need to really sleep it's I think it's the younger you are the more sleep you need for sure

mhm no for real though and then you get older I think I must have just gotten old dude how old how old are you guys I'm almost 29 which is scary to say I'm 28 I'm almost 29 too I'm turning 30 next week oh dud we really need the whiskey got to celebrate early but what it is I think what it was around around 28 29 that's where my body just shifted like I used to be the 2:00 a.m. 3:00 a.m. person and then halfway through like 27 my body went all right now you need

those eight hours and go into bed before 11 28 that age man it sucks dude so you also ha and you've edited for two of the biggest YouTubers in in the entire world are like the number one the number one in the second we got Mr Beast and Logan Paul and I want to dive right into it though and see kind of the differences between editing for the two of them cuz I was telling Coes before the show right you see Mr Beast in my in my brain I have never worked with either of them

right but I'm assuming this is the most analytical person of a YouTube video and anything that he kind of says I was listening to Dan maep pod and he's like anything Mr B says you're like not really going to question because this guy has put in so many years of analyzing a YouTube video that in a traditional sense of him being a filmmaker he's like oh if this creative says something I'm be like no you're wrong like but with working with Mr Beast it's different and I'm assuming working with Logan Paul is also a very

different Dynamic so what was it like working for the two of them and what were kind of some of the key differences that you noticed during your tenure there the time that I was with Jimmy he hired me to be the person to disagree with him oh wow that's dope terrifying said that that was very fun incredibly stressful but also very fun but then also with Logan Paul I think he was also the person where he was very the differences is this Logan was very character and personality orientated whereas I think Jimmy was very uh

spectacle and just content related that was what he was excited and focusing on and so in in at that time he was very focused on the spectacle just the idea and he wasn't so much focused on the character he just wanted to give you something very cool to look at that has this optimized Pace whereas Logan was the opposite where it was let's just I I I call this sort of um sort of the garden chair Theory which is where Logan and his Entourage and his team they created such a great Rapport and were're very

good at improv and comedy and just coming up with jokes just like that Logan was able to put him and his team in the middle of a field with a simple garden chair and they'll be able to get an hour's worth of content just with that Garden chair uh if Jimmy was in that same circumstance with his team they would probably find it very struggle and within maybe about 30 minutes they would have bought a fort Clift and crushed it but I think that was kind of the differences that we were making so it was

character focused and then with Jimmy it was more so like spectacle and big idea focused with Logan Paul's videos as like this spectacle this character are you just like looking at the footage through in a Dropbox and being like okay what's the story here how can I put it together are they just filming kind of like a bunch of random stuff and you're trying to put together the story or were you kind of like talking to Logan and saying like hey you should maybe film it like this to make sure I'm getting these shots to

lean more into the or they send you an outline or like yeah prepro call what's the vibe well I think it is there's two different eras that I would like to describe with Logan paol one was the daily vlogging era which was this was 2016 up to the start of 2018 and that was essentially he would film anything and everything that he can uh send it to me across the world cuz I lived in the UK at the time I know open up my Dropbox I footage ready to go and then I didn't get that

two hours of content or that he films and get it down to like 10 15 minutes so yes there's lots of things being shaved there's lots of things that are being cut and and then for me it is bringing into that focus of what what do I think is the best content now now I will say 2016 2017 content was a very different time period to what was considered good you watch those videos now they are awful they are [ __ ] garbage but then I'm C any and then and then that and then the

second sort of Vlog era of Logan was what I called the Quant what I call the quarantine Vlog era can you see that I am good at podcast cuz I correct myself a lot yeah I what I call the quarantine Vlog era which was again where similar thing he would give me an hour or two's worth of footage every day and I have to get it down to 5 minutes and so but what what it is is that uh but Logan and his team were very funny so there there is so much things that we

like ah this is not really as funny as we want it to be and we were following sort of the idea of It kind of being a bit more of like a highlight reel like it's there's this rules of Comedy where it's you got to get into the scene as late as possible and then you leave as soon as possible and then what that then meant is and so we follow that philosophy and so it would be like they would start improving a scene and they'll be going for about 10 minutes I'm like [ __

] [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] oh that's a funny in and all that stuff's gone it doesn't matter it's gone if Logan says he wants it back [ __ ] you it's gone you know and so it was and then I followed that out and as soon as I got like a great punch line they were probably improv for another 10 maybe even 20 minutes and i' be like nope this is [ __ ] it's all gone I always came into the scene as late as possible and left as soon as

possible you also do something and you've talked about this about cutting quick quick quick and then like settling in on that punch line can you talk about that editing strategy yeah I think it's one of my favorite strategies I think uh earli in my life I was a drummer and so I and just like originally wanted to be a musician at one point in my life and but it gave me a really great sense of Rhythm and so I think it is if there is a specific joke or a very specific line that I think

is the most important part I would set up the rules TOS where I would have things be be cutting fast and so maybe Cuts go faster and faster faster or they have a very clear rhythmic pace and so each cut I specifically have be half a second half a second half a second half a second but in the line that I want everyone to focus on that's 3 seconds or 5 seconds and what that then means is that you now notice the difference and now this is me talking slowly and now you can feel the

difference like they you're kind of paying a bit more attention I saw your eyes drift though so it's not quite working I'm just I'm just I'm just trying to pay attention this dog hopefully it doesn't knock over any of the camera stuff it would be a great outte though but I think Rhythm variety and rhythm is such an important tool for me in storytelling one of my favorite examples is when uh Logan was scammed three and half million dollar of Pokemon cards so I set up three and a half minutes of context of leading towards

that moment of when he finds out that he got scammed and so that entire shot was a minute and 45 seconds where I don't when I didn't cut for a single moment but what that then told me is that for me to earn me not needing to cut I needed the first 3 and 1 half minutes to have a good fast aggressive pace so therefore you then feel that difference so much so that genuinely right before that minute and a half uh shot I just again cut one second no even shorter half a second half

a second half a second break and then you in theory are so engrossed you don't even notice that I haven't cut for a minute and a half and not cutting in a minute and a half for a YouTube video that's unheard of like you shouldn't do that but that's how you can make that work now talk about how you can incorporate that into and if you can into short form content cuz is this something is this an editing trick or tip that you can bring into short form content and kind of just faster Pac edits

and then you kind of hang on something even longer there's this one line in The Incredibles that I also live by and it's that feeling of like when when everyone's super no one is and I kind of Follow That same philosophy when everything is fast none of it is and so actually it I would honestly say it could be in your interest to maybe try and break out of that and so maybe you do start your video fast like give them the the decent here's what a video is here's what I'm going to deliver to

you here is the promise uh and maybe you then bring into that and then by that time I think theyve probably a bit more invested into the story uh maybe in the fast 10 20 seconds maybe you can slow it down a little bit more the entire thing doesn't have to be at that same Pace it just these these differences in Rhythm has to still be ingrained in storytelling context so the context that you've given is still engaging enough you can slow it down and so I think that's that's really the most important thing is

actually context wow I thought you were going to be like where's my super sou you might [ __ ] need it though when you're editing these Vlogs in like a day right like dailies you would just be cutting them instantly like was that a 10-hour day for or did you get so fast at it that like yeah would someone cut would someone look at it with you or was it just you in the UK you wake up boom and you start going during the two different periods the first period it was uh I would get

sent a footage I would spend like eight hours editing it send it to Logan he might give a couple notes like fix like trim this down just like another 20 seconds or something and then I do that and then we would then publish uh due to very obvious reasons we then had a review Pro process afterwards where the where we did have lawyer and managers just going through it just in case something could be taken out of context or or something was controversial because when when you're kind of in the F of it and you're

doing these things every single day your filter your quality filter does dip and so we needed the professionals to help us when we're also in the thick event and we don't we don't quite know what we're seeing anymore uh and I think so that was uh but so yeah so after after yes said very specific reasons we then had people viewing it with a fresh perspective but again again it was that meant is like 8 to 10 hour days every single day just working incredibly fast I've had friends who have watched me edit on coffee

shops and they're like it's like there's been times when the computer just couldn't keep up with me it's just like I'm like this ision this Isis is and like it's just like I'm compressing two hours of things into 5 minutes in a matter of hours and people are like what just happened uh and and so I think it's now that I'm getting older I'm a lot more intentional with my Pace I kind of swung the opposite direction where I would look at a c and I'd be and I'd sit there and think okay so what

is the next best choice to make rather than just throwing something there without much thought and so I've gone in the opposite direction where I'm more much more of an intentionally slower editor now I mean that's great you're actually able to sit with the footage and see if it's something that you know you want to cut to you referenced earlier though about how Jimmy kind of brought you in uh to be almost this Devil's Advocate to the things that you guys were making together uh so how would the process go so he had a team

of people that were cutting it and you would come in later would you come in earlier in the process when they were sorting the clips and kind of help build the story out cuz now he has you know just such a massive team helping on all these different things so yeah I think the reason why I started working with Jimmy was this is when the retention editing era was like really uh ramping up and it's for me going this is awful like this like no like this is I absolutely hate what's happening to editing nowadays

and so island did a big speech at an event called vid Summit where I was like hey guys all the content you're making is [ __ ] and let me tell you why and then Jimmy went well [ __ ] you then put your money away your mice here's a job and so I had then started working with Jimmy and and in the sense that where him he had someone whose job was specifically to be in charge of retention editing he would be the one who' be giving the editors here's how to make this optimized

here to here's how to make this as fast as possible here's how to make this efficient um whereas for me I'm like well this is taking out so much character this is taking out so much personality uh here's how to put that back in and so basically Jimmy being the evil mastermind gave me a mortal enemy and then it was like me and his job to be consistently every single day arguing on how the video should be edited and then over time we would then end up finding the middle ground one of the best examples

is one of the uh a contestant was isolated in a room for as many days as he can and every single day an object is taken away from the room and so and it the game was how long can he spend in this environment before he goes crazy it's very dystopian very squid game how long do you think you could last yeah how long you think you could last oh um well I'm an introvert so that sounds like heaven so to be isolated in a room for at least 30 days honestly hell yeah I'm going

to catch up on so much sleep it will be amazing you could do it no problem I think I could do it with no problem I've actually I've always wanted that if I'm honest dude one one day if I'm in a hotel room for too long and I I don't see people I freak out how many times you tugging it you need at least three to stay sane dude in a hotel room I love that joke and he's like I get to the front desk I'm way going out um I will say though I love

the idea of taking an object away though every day it's like and do they know like what object is being taken or is it like wait what the [ __ ] is like going on in my brain like is something going on that it [ __ ] with my head right I just know I got Co and I was in my room for like 7 days and I was going crazy like six or seven well it's for me I'm just I'm kind of just tired of life and so taking a break from it would be

nice but you're sounds like you just need a vacation I've been trying to launch this business for the past three years I'm tired guys basically what happened was that uh over time this person came to be thinking about his partner his girlfriend and he's like I actually love this person and I'm actually missing her so much and he is getting tempted to leave the room just so he can see his girlfriend again and then near the end of the video he then asks Jimmy hey uh use some of my prize money and buy a ring

so I can propose to her at the end of this video and for me I that's the story through isolation he learns how much he loves his girlfriend and wants to spend the rest of his life and he wants to spend the rest of his life with her amazing that's crazy they wanted to cut all of that out oh wow and their logic is this and I understand this logic when whenever someone maybe starts talking about their partner or their mother's in hospital or uh or ex or like likey like hey I'm having some Financial

hard times I lost my job it's kind of the sad story or the character development is to their motivation they would get a 10% drop off or or or sometimes more like people would stop watching the moment someone starts uh telling uh their their life story in a way and so that taught them to not do it uh because in there at that scale if you're getting 50 to 60 to 100 million views if 10% drop off that's 10 million people who stopped watching and in their logic that's 10 million people who will not see

that next ad and so that is incredibly valuable for them to be able to make sure that everyone stays uh so but then it was my mission to keep it to then so therefore and my logic was is that at that time they just told those sad sto they just told those character developments just really badly they just got like some crappy stock piano music and put it underneath and they turn everything black and white in slow motion and it's like it's just cheesy it was just poorly made storytelling and so I showed them how

they can give character development in a mature way and then that and then it worked that video then became kind of one of the most celebrated and talked about videos at that time it's like oh my God like I cared the fact that this person proposed at the end but I had to fight to get it to that point um uh then but then honestly at that point though uh I went this is fun this is a really good experience but I want to refocus on something else and so I chose to leave I kind

of went like ah my job here is done but then a year or so later Jimmy then calls me back and then says hey I actually kind of miss working with you I filmed a video where we cured a thousand people's blindness do you want to be an editor on that one so similar thing Jimmy had learned I would say the value of Storytelling and character development and then he then asked me hey I want to put more effort into that into uh the blind video and so same thing he just hands me a hard

drives gives me some really talented assistant editors and I went all right let's [ __ ] go let's hit instead of me being an edit producer there you go I found a segue so instead of me being a story producer while I'm directing the editors let me see if I can really massage it and do it myself and that video was incredibly was an incredible challenge of again the spectacle of doing medical miracles on top of the mo the emotional motivations of these people's experiences and making sure that it's not cheesy and presented maturely and

so I did everything I can to present it in the most mature way possible where essentially instead of it being a YouTube video kind of ended up being like a documentary and that presentation was really really great and then however though I do feel like I do feel like I went a bit too far from the Mr Beast brand and so when I then showed it to Jimmy Jimmy was like ah this is not going to work on my channel and so we didn't had to completely sort of revamp about 50% of the video back

into the YouTube language and uh and but and so at the time it hurt to watch uh seeing seeing essentially almost 50% of the entire video that you made I said like my vision my my original version was around 13 minutes theirs was about maybe six or seven maybe maybe a little bit less if I remember correctly us as filmmakers we want our audien is watching it and we assume that they are as emotionally available as we would like them to be in watching our content but because it's on YouTube where someone's waiting for their

bus someone's waiting for their meal to be cooked in the microwave uh someone's watching it while they're having a [ __ ] on the toilet asking them for something solely asking them to be so emotionally available for quite a deep emotional story they're just going to stop watching like no I don't I'm not in the mood for this and they'll stop watching and so we had to pull back how emotionally deep that video was and kind of make it a lot more digestible but still keep it emotional enough that they know that this is a

refreshing experience so for the retention guy that is going that you're working with at that time right does that guy sit down and he just has a notebook and he's like that's got to go that's got to go that's got that can stay that's got to go says bored yeah yeah what how does it work next cuz their their style has changed so much even in the last 2 to 3 months he slow down dramatically he's adding way more character development I the last one that I watched was the one that Dan mace did where

they went to I believe it was like Chile or something and they built the hospital I I don't remember quite the country it was Peru it was Peru and they made the hospital but the stuff has gotten so much slower even on the main Channel where I watched the one the other day where the guys like win in a Ferrari and they had to do all those little challenges but they're so much slower way more involved you feel like you really know at least one or two maybe even three some of those characters that they're

adding in it's not so fast well it's because they're telling it maturely now I would like to think part that's one of the impacts that I left there it's they're actually telling it maturely not putting shitty stock music and making it slow motion is that they're actually they're actually casting these contestants well now where they can be compelling enough in sharing their story uh they are motivating a lot more into the perspective of that person and so we feel and so we feel like they have earned that win rather than the fact they just win

it's just they weren't doing it well before now they can do it well and so therefore they are getting the results that they've been needed because I think character development is such a hard thing and then also at that time not many people really really consider this when Mr Beast was coming up and blowing up and it was just High spectacle really fast-paced videos where so much happens but yet nothing happens that was during the p pmic uh where we're all very exhausted emotionally exhausted Pol political tensions were really high at that time all of

us are struggling and so when we see someone else struggling we're like oh [ __ ] you I have a hard life too and so actually the world wasn't really emotionally available at that time but now where we are today in the culture of today we're a lot more wanting and needing connections post pandemic because actually we are one we we missed connecting with people and so I think just the world's appetite for Content changed and now I think Jimmy has identified that and now now that him and his team have matured enough to be

able to tell it not poorly it's what that's why it's now working it was just at the time no one wanted it but now people do it's crazy to just see the the change in their content and all across YouTube all across I feel like even the short form stuff is a whole lot cuz I remember maybe it was during the pandemic but his shorts were going every single one it was like the fastest growing Channel were the shorts and the words on the screen it was every singular word it was brutal dude it was

like retention editing was like I one of the worst things to have ever happened in web media history I think it was just I think here's what happened of all of that is that uh we would the thing is like it's flashing images it's so much is happening that our brain is trying to process what's happening but before we finally included what we just saw we've already moved on and so actually we genuinely were put into a hypnotic trance but then like scientifically like put into a hypnotic trance but then when that video ends I

bet you we all subconsciously went I don't really know what happened nothing nothing happened uh and then you move on and you forget that you watched it you just know that you did but you actually don't know what you saw and I think over time we've all subconsciously come to realize that when that type of content that's over edited which I also call insecure editing it's because you know that your content has absolutely nothing nothing is actually said nothing's profound nothing's deep nothing gives actual change it's just a bunch of visual noise you may as

well just watch flashing colors where nothing really does happen and we have come to learn how unsatisfying that is and so I think everyone's been pulled back on it because we now realize it's nothing content there nothing Burgers yeah people I feel like are craving that uh just to sit down and actually enjoy something and connect with like you're saying connect with someone and hear their story and I think it I see it changing a ton right now on YouTube it's very interesting we all enjoy McDonald's every now and again but if we started having

it every single day we're going to get sick of it it's like we get we see the Big Mac for like the seventh day in a row and it's like oh not me again I'm three months strong baby every single day nuggets baby come on okay maybe the chicken nuggets I tolerate yeah dude they're chicken nuggets slap no but you're you're so right that's that's a really good point like you're going to get um fatigued if you if you consume too much I guess of the same concept of the same content or eat too much

of the same it's exhausting yeah yeah it's exhausting it's uh another way of phrasing it uh there's an episode of community that makes fun of the concept but it is a genuinely really good visual example where they have Donald Glover's character and he buys a giant cookie at the start of the episode like a huge cookie and that's his entire thing uh throughout the episode you he just they just cut to him eating more and more of the cookie and at the end of the episode halfway he's only finished half of the cookie and next's

like I don't think I can have any of this anymore oh it's because you can't have too much of a good thing like it was like really like meta sort of upfront about the point but I feel like so many people need to watch that episode to understand that concept yeah like you like a a giant cookie is great but I bet you can only be able to get through half of it you also bring up a really good point of like emotional availability mhm and I feel like it is the same or a similar

concept to watching a movie on your laptop or on your iPad like in bed versus going to the theater like yes when I go to the theater and watch a movie I'm so much more into it and I'm like I'm not going to check my phone like it's obviously just a better viewing experience I have a really hard time sitting through a full movie on my laptop in bed without checking my phone or being distracted it's I believe it's because of the transaction that we make in that choice when we're watching something on our phone

we've been trained it's quite a passive thing on our laptops we have all of our emails we have all of our messages we have everything else that we can do on our laptop and the back of our mind we know that that we can be doing so much more and so we feel tempted to maybe just check Twitter while this scene's not that interesting or when you're watching things on TV you have a bit more of an intent but then when you go to the theater what happens it is you you see all the marketing

for that movie so you go that looks fun so you go online you buy the ticket then you drive to the cinema and and then you're thinking about the movie you're anticipating the movie and then you probably buy a shitty hot dog and then you watch 30 minutes of ads but or trailers before the movie actually begins and now the movie begins and that entire transaction because of the effort that we've put in makes us that's the EM that's the transaction that we need to have to then become emotionally available and now we're in and

then if the movie's not great we still watch the whole movie in in a cinema but if the movie is not great on our phone what do we do we stop watching because the transaction was so much smaller I mean if the first 10 15 seconds aren good I'm on the dude I'm not above walking out of a movie I've done it four times this year you do four four times [ __ ] movies dude I'm at I'm once a month I only did that Haunting in Venice i l and I sit down we watch

it I'm like God I'm kind of struggling I see she sleeping I sleep we wake up end of the movie I'm like nice I've never done it before in my life dude usually I'm very [ __ ] on it but locked in if I'm lost I'm out dude I'm out of there I love the Dan Cook bit about how when we watch trailers before a movie you become a movie critic after eating like looks pretty goodin go see that moment in between exactly though I do do that actually yeah it really does I think the

only movie I've ever walked out of was Expendables free M uh again cuz I think I I I I watched it and had a really really underwhelming action sequence that kind of sucked and then they doing like they're leading up to like the really cool title sequence Expendables free this going to be the best [ __ ] thing ever but what they do is that sylvesta Salone does like the slow motion walking away shot he presses a button and helicopter blows up behind him and it was like the worst CGI I had ever seen it

was just like like like a like the stock helicopter explosion that you probably download off YouTube you know shitty green screen background and I'm like oh this what the whole movie is going to be like no I cannot do this it's the only movie I've walked out on dude I would also say you know it's a good movie when you leave the theater and you just like can't quite adapt into the regular world again you guys feel like that like I remember when I saw I saw talk to me and I was just like looking

around like holy [ __ ] like I'm in the real world this doesn't feel like you're so locked I'm like I don't know if I blinked once through that whole movie and like there's a few movies like that where I just like can't assimilate back into the real world for like an hour equalizer when he like flips the gun on him I'm walking out I'm like if someone steps on me I'm back on I'm like I'm in 7-Eleven I'm like someone robbed me yeah I'm ready dude flip it back yes dud that Meme is so

funny I just had that with a Civil War I saw IMAX Dolby Dolby sound system it was phenomenal and I was like I got in the car and I just drove back in silence it was just like such an intense feeling but that's that's the True Value that part where it's like how long it stays with you and and I think that's where the true value of the content or film or TV show that you're making and so and and so that's but part of it comes with the transaction that we have to give towards

the film and TV and then the transaction they give back is the lasting memory afterwards and so how long that thing stays with you and so when we're watching these shorts it doesn't stay with you because we're immediately watching the next one it doesn't stay the only transaction we really have is like oh that was funny let me share it with my girlfriend and maybe that's a transaction like that's it it's just it is the before and after in anything that we're making is actually the most important part right like this look at like the

long tale of like Dune 2 I feel like people are still thumping and talking about it dude you know did you see that movie Dune two oh Dune to one you haven't seen it all right my only thought I liked it Timmy the shal's character too many names dude he's got like five names all the Tre he's he's he's M he's Lis too many Mouse baby mouse that's MRA five names dude it's one too many it's actually three too many pick one dude okay I have one more question about Mr Beast uh before we move

on Mr Beast is Jimmy by the way for Mom yeah so when you were working with him right and you learned some things from their team and what are a few either YouTube specific editing techniques that you see now that you're like man that was one that I I still continue to put in my videos cuz there's one that I I did learn from you a while back where you said that when you're cutting on someone's eye level on YouTube and you zoom in a lot of people move the eye level down a little bit

and it's very jarring kind of distracting so you put that vertical or horizontal line and so you're always cutting in and their eye levels staying the same that was a very helpful tip is there one that you could maybe share with with the audience that you're like man this is one that I continue to see that people mess up or need to do in their edits well you're right I think ey line is a really really important one for me because we're cutting so fast we have to make sure that it is not jarring and

so every time I do do jump Cuts in anything I'm always conscious of eyeline but uh CU it is like we don't cuz we don't really have enough time to be scanning to where the next main focal point that we want them to focus on so we got to make it as easy for them to find in the next cut uh but then I think the thing that I probably learned from Jimmy or if that Mr Beast Camp honestly I think I rejected a lot of their lessons CU I just fundamentally disagreed with them um

but I think I I I would like to think I gave them a lot of lessons in terms of maturity uh I I think like allowing them to have character development allowing them to have setting up and payoffs like uh one of the best one of the best examples is with the squid game video that he did the person who won was like the first time we ever saw that person and so one of the feedbacks that I gave to Jimmy is that if that person wins you have to make them have consistent screen time

across the entire video and so it feels like that they've earned that win they now do that now uh but I didn't invent that That's a classic real TV editing storytelling concept but I have to be very arrogant and admit I think I didn't really learn anything myself in the Mr Beast Camp because I thought a lot of their philosophies were the exact opposite of what I consider good content but I will say what they are doing now is what I've wanted them to be doing and I actually now really enjoy what they're making now

wow so interesting that's it's crazy do you find before it was hard for you to sit through a Mr Beast video I would prefer to have been grinding my and sanding my teeth that's funny I just couldn't yeah you you brought up the um person stuck in a room MH and you found that underlying storyline you also broke down the a act video where people think that the story is about him trying to find or his girl his sister trying to find a boyfriend but the underlying story is that he's an overprotective brother yes how

important is that underlying story that maybe isn't as obvious at the start how important is that to a good story well I think we have the a plot which is the thing that's always always explicitly said but then the B plot is yeah is the underlying uh actual story it's uh it's a writing so it's a writing concept from it's it's it's a bit of a the book's made fun of but I still treat it with a good respect called save the cat which is about want and it says characterists always should have have a

want a need and a flaw and so they want this but they need this but they actually need this and are not aware of it but the flaw is they have a behavioral issue that stops them from getting their need and their want and then the real story is overcoming the flaw to then achieve what they need and so in and so in AR's video he did that perfectly the want is the want of the video is for his sister to uh find a boyfriend but the flaw is that Eric is being an overprotected brother

and only choosing the boyfriend that she that that he thinks she deserves and so the need is to let go of the overprotectiveness and allow her to make her own decisions and so that's a really great story and so and the need and the flaw should never be explicitly set it should always be implied it should always be suggested because the moment it is explicitly said it becomes a want and so that's the actual story and we don't normally say it out loud but we do internally feel that change when we see someone be a

bad person such as being an overprotective brother and then learning to let her go like it's that's nice we that is a change and I think that's the most important thing and so I'm always very conscious of that and so if you're not really developing in your video that type of narrative it's just not as satisfying as it could be with the content that you're making now right you're working on maybe a documentary for two or three months back to the YouTube videos you were doing with Mr Beast or with Logan Paul how has the

process change from you physically sitting down to edit what is that like now do you is this the same sorting process do you have more time to spend do you have assistant editors that you get to work with you even mentioned before the Pod how you have five people that are contracted under you so what is it like now now having your own team and you're not just waking up and grinding on it yourself I think what it is now is you're I think me approaching 30 I'm not having that same energy as I used

to have now and so I can't really be in the thick of it as much as I'd like to be anymore so but then all and so what it means is that I am going into these projects finding that direction in mind and then fusing this and help direct the younger people who have that energy uh and so I was like Hey going into this podcast these are these are the really interesting topics and so if you can focus on this you can give them this type of experience make sure you are cut to this

type of thing give it this type of uh pingpong experience and uh and and then they send me and they send me that version back and then I'll probably just do a screen recording and just give roast to their entire edit send it back to them or I'll would spend an entire day giving them 200 notes on frame.io and sending that back to them and so giving them the experience and then sort of also them allowing them to figure it out and so in a lot of cases in my business I'm not as much in

the f of the editing I'm letting other people doing it and then they are benefiting from the experiences I had and me sharing it to them but in it's a documentary I still prefer to be in the thick of it in that sense because it is if I've gotten if I've gotten the overall idea of the story okay so this character in this documentary had this Arc so this is the type of footage that I need to be looking for and I've come to an understand uh reading body languages meaning reading movements uh being aware

of like uh of like focal vocal volume and how I can help tell that story so I'm actively looking for that stuff that I've learned that younger editors don't quite have that empathy to find yet and so in a lot of cases I still have to go through everything looking for those moments so therefore I can then build upon it myself otherwise cuz yeah there has been times when I have an assistant editor go through it they give me the selects and I go but I'm looking for something like this and I go into and

I go into the the actual footage and I can find immediately what I'm looking for in a minute and I'm like why didn't you give me this in the assembly and so I think and what it is what has changed is with Logan and or maybe also a little bit of Jimmy I was getting the footage and I was being reactive what what was I getting and then using that to tell me how to edit and so what that meant was that the footage was actually in charge as I've been growing and maturing I've been

finding the intent of what I want the video to be and now I'm in charge I now have I now get to tell the footage what I want it to be rather than it telling me what it is it's so interesting to see kind of how you've just grown over these last few years of your career that reminds me of something you told me you've told us actually the your first agency job you like really learned how to pull selects from like the senior editor yeah I was more just like a creative director like oh

why you like pull this like weird like Blurry like not even blurry but like clip that I just would have never thought to use and it just like I remember walking home every day from that job being like like just like I felt like my world was just like you know what I mean like expanding because it was just like oh like that actually does make sense and that is like an important part of a video that I never thought to include you know what I mean like even something that adds like a little bit

Humanity that's not like actually really perfect it like maybe it looks cleaner or like less clean and that actually adds something I think that's pretty cool to like just see and be like like where is this do we have that yeah a specific example is this where there was a video I just finished uh with Michelle car and what it was with just five people sitting at a table and essentially having a conversation for an hour but there's raising Stakes but essentially the best way of putting it there's there's a bomb under the table and

so we feel that tension of like okay these people are kind of talking about anything and we're feeling that tension but while the emotional stakes in that conversation is getting higher and so for me it is one of the passes that I did and I learned this from one of the editors from Chernobyl he edited each of the scenes from that character's perspective and so he could get more micro movements and more reactions cuz he specifically focused on that person and then when he had like the four people's perspectives of that scene he wouldn't choose

the best bits of all of them and therefore we got perspectives of a shared perspective of what the X Stakes means to them I did a similar thing with where me at me and one of and one of one of the editors I was working with did a pass where we picked every single micro movement from each of those people's uh experience and so if someone looked down like this Mark it we we put it we put it in a different we put it in a different sequence if the other person looked at that person

quite dramatically put it in put it in their own sequence uh Michelle looked at this person and then looked to the right a bit more panicked great let's put that in in her own sequence and then what that then meant is I had a collection of reactions and then that then meant and then even with that I might have three different versions where one of the talent went down maybe another one down a bit more less and the other one it just maybe just moved down with their eyes I would experiment of all three of

those reactions and then go oh actually the smallest movement told me the most in the story and then putting that in gave us the more uh impactful reactions and I think just that whole process wouldn't have been something if I was a reactive editor yeah and if you're just getting it and having to figure it out on the Fly and change it as you go you you also have your own podcast which is you're the first guest we've ever had on that has their own show uh what has that been like having a podcast is

it something that you recommended to people do you hate having a podcast so I I assume you guys severely underestimated how tough running a podcast is as well it's like oh yeah we'll we'll just bring mates over we'll hang out it's fun oh we have to edit it [ __ ] you know and then and then and then also the thing that I've also come to learn is that we were probably recording for 2 hours but then we realize we're not as interesting as we think we are and so now we have to cut it

down to maybe 30 minutes I wanted to start a podcast because one thing that I realized was that it's really great for me to be nerding out about editing and storytelling of my channel but I know there's so many other people who also want to do the same that probably don't really have a Channel or or or probably don't even realize how talented they are in editing let's celebrate that and so I started the editing podcast for them to celebrate other editors and other storytellers and for me to also learn because I got to admit

I had doing editing education on my channel and I kind of ran out of knowledge I ran out and I was like I don't know what to make videos on anymore and so admittedly I then started the channel so I couldn't start learning again myself um essentially my new plan then become became bringing in a new Mentor every week letting them teach me something letting them teach me something that that's going to fundamentally reshape everything I know about creativity and editing but running a podcast is something that I severely underestimated and then especially with the

style that I'm wanting where again the strategy of how can I get a 2-hour conversation down in 30 minutes and you don't feel those cuts that a whole art form in itself that I am still really struggling with what's been one of the things that you've learned from these mentors that you've had on the show cuz I I feel like in in our situation it's similar where we get people that sit in your seat and we learn tons about the ways that they're running their business or the ways that they're filming their content or like

you editing your stuff from these Pro editors that you've had maybe from Chernobyl or from the other movies you had David Fincher on DED editor fun what you yeah what did you learn from David Fincher's editor I think two of my favorite things from him is one he is an editor is very conscious of when people are blinking and and it's something that also came from another editor called Walter merch who kind of pioneered that concept and basically the theory is is that when an actor blinks that's the actor not the character and so do

actually breaks the illusion and so what uh he does is he chooses takes specifically where an actor is not blinking or he or chooses a moment when if he's cing to a reaction their blink is at a specific line so let's just say x character says something dramatic he'll cut back to the person blink and it's like that's like that's them trying to process the information so he he even being conscious of when to time a blink and if there is a take that someone has that's really good and this is from another editor that

taught me this one uh the who edited Andor who also edited Chernobyl as well what he also does is that if someone links and and he also feels like it breaks illusion he motion tracks a still of those person's eyes or the frame just before and motion tracks it on so he completely hides the blink and so what it means is I'm you're all blinking now I'm really conscious it's really funny now and so what it means is that eye contact is so much more intense because the blinking is not breaking anything and as to

the back of our minds I feel this when we notice someone's not blinking that increases that intensity and so that is how detailed TV and film editors get we think us some web media we think we detailed man the [ __ ] that they talk about is on another level but one of my favorite ones is with David Fincher was the uh with vertical editing that he described what I initially was calling it contrast editing you know with one shot's quiet and then the next shots really loud uh he called it vertical editing and he

was and he was breaking it down if with the last fil the edited with David PCH with the Killer and how that vertical editing of when we're seeing Michael fast Bender building a gun and he's wearing headphones and we cut back to his POV we're then hearing the Smiths really really loudly we cut back out and it's like super quiet and just and he was using that to help build this really tense anticipation to when he's getting prepared to Fire and he was using the sound editing to help build that attention and that anticipation and

that is something that I came very conscious of and then I then implemented that in the last Michelle car video where the video genuinely opens with vertical editing and it's so powerful and that's why I'm doing the podcast I don't know anything about editing these people do let them teach me something so then I can then be a better editor myself I was editing the thing with uh CJ stad and the client was like he's clearly reading off the teleprompter and like not looking at the screen and I saw he googled this was well not

going to tell you when tell us this is recently I Googled AI ey tracker and you can just make his eye look at the screen it was it's sick just pop and paste it works yeah I used it in um I think descript has it one built in and then I used it in there was another one that was an After Effects plug and it also worked pretty well I'm not going to Blink anymore the other thing I was thinking about the blinking I wonder if Jason B has to be like can you put my

blinks back in cuz you know he's just always doing the [ __ ] slow blink like in reaction to things that's funny I like that's his whole thing you know actors even like the the most advanced actors do time their blinks in the dialogue CU they're aware of it but they're not as experienced actors they have to fix that wall I remember taking a a an acting class in college and one of the questions that like the class asked was like about blinking and the teacher was like you just have to make the choice not

to Blink and I'm like buddy I'm blinking like but you know that's why maybe I'm not an actor some one of the actors that's insane at it is Robert Downey Jr y oh my God there's one video on YouTube specifically of like a BTS of him recording an Iron Man scene and it's probably like a minute 30 2 minutes and just doesn't blink I'm like how do you do that it's so crazy that's just blink cuz you don't notice it you'd think it would be weird if they're just staring all the time but yeah I

my girlfriend said that once at a bar this guy came up to her and said like you know you could never be an actor you blink too much and it's Fu a [ __ ] her whole brand and I was like L you know that guy was hitting on you right like that's like how we do it classic line classic maneuver so you want to get out of here yeah anyway I'll buy you drink I'll give you a reason to Blink wait a minute that's funny you're right it's like a it's kind of like a

trade secret in a way like the actors know about it the TV and film editors like they're aware of it but now you're not going to be able to unsee it and I think it's and and and now when you're watching actors who are not as experienced and they're blinking randomly it's like you're not going with the rhythm of the flow of the edit now or even with editors yeah like but you're right if if actors are not great at it the best thing is US editors can help fix your performance yeah you know but

it's I think with your technology that you mentioned where it's like you can fix someone's eyeline I know that that streamers do that now but they don't tell Their audience that they're doing it and so what it means is that they could be playing a video game but they're actually looking at the chat but the AI tool is happening live that's crazy that it looks like they're still playing the video game and so they can be interacting with the chat or looking and moving around so like it sometimes it slips you you'll the head they

move and the eyes would like just drift just one frame but yeah like streamers use that technology now because uh or or what it means actually or if they're talking to chat they're looking down here but the eye thing is making it look directly at the camera so they're talking directly to the chat it's like really scary technology but it's so much more engaging because now it feels like I hate it when streamers are looking down and we can't see eye contact so keeping it is so in it's so effective should we do it with

the podcast or we just like constantly just looking camera people like what the hell is going on has there been something we had we had a Machine Gun Kelly's filmmaker on Sam K Hill a minute ago and he was talking about how uh he was editing their documentary and a dog came in the house and yanked the drive from the wall and it tangled it all up and just corrupted everything everything was gone has there been a moment in your career that you've had just a horror story that you might be able to share with

us that you might not have been able to pull out of your ass it just got ruined I definitely a few but I feel like they were so traumatic I've put them in a closet to never open ever again so I'm trying to open I'm trying I'm going into my mind trying to open up that dra Pandora's Box here we go I think one that I'll probably uh it is one with uh Logan Paul specifically he filmed a music video and I just came to the house at the end at nearing the end of the

day and still filming music video I said hey Hayden you got a spare spare pair of hands here's a camera you go start filming and so for me instinctively I have the habit okay new shoot what do you do you format the SD card oh no and so and they have spent the entire day filming I don't think I've never told him this so if you watches this I'm screwed so the entire day of filming that they had on one of those cameras which was one of the main cameras was gone oh my god did

you realize it on the shoot I didn't realize it until uh until later on I'm like hey Logan I'm missing some camera footage of like this angle but I'm seeing someone else filming like where is this and I went I don't know and didn't had to spend an entire day chasing that person and they and and I felt so guilty no I felt so Under Pressure that I made them all blame that person nice they made like so he deleted the footage but I actually deleted the footage so I ruined this guy's entire career because

I didn't want to get in trouble oh no I'm a terrible person he's homeless now out of job that feeling when you're on the shoot and you realize you [ __ ] up and you're just like hot and you're just looking around like oh my god do they know like how am I going to tell them that that is the worst feeling it's like a weird it starts in your head and it kind of like your shoulders burn suddenly and then like that like it's like a burn chill and your it just goes down your

entire body and you're like oh I'm [ __ ] that's so funny there's also been a few times but I'm probably invite I'm probably inviting more of it but all of all of Logan's archive is still on a Cloud Drive and a couple of people have tried to hack into it and uh and there was one time last year where I got text from Mike MAAC who's uh's one of Logan's best friends like hey Hayden how you doing haven't spoken for a while uh and and we had like a quick catch up chat he like

hey uh by the way Logan needs me to get a file uh from from this can you share me the folder and I went yeah sure so I didn't so I was like went into the drive hit share I was about to give him the link and I went wait a minute hey Mike tell me about the time we did the X thing at X location and went what do you mean well yeah tell me about that memory I don't know what you're talking talking about and I realized that I was getting catfished someone was

pretending to be Mike to try to get access to our entire Cloud Drive and if they got access to that entire Cloud Drive they then had access to Logan's entire archive we've now taken it all offline now and it's now on a physical drive just because of that instance but it was so close to giving someone else email or text it was on text and did you verify with Mike that it wasn't him it was it was but what it was it was Mike MAAC icloud.com and Mike's actual Apple account is is his actual email

and so it just it was like one letter off like the Mike MAAC was a one rather than rather than an I so it was so close and I had a brand new iPhone as well so the message history wasn't there so I genuinely for a very brief moment thought it was Mike that was the closest we got to to it and so uh if that gu is watching you almost got me you almost almost [ __ ] Budd [ __ ] okay going back to your podcast real quick cuz I do want to get

a little bit more into it you edit your podcast differently than like a normal podcast because you show examples of the actual videos and movies that these people are talking about do you have them provide you with those assets because the way you do it is like you're able to show a scene without the music and then you show it with the music and how that makes a difference so do you have those assets or how exactly do you edit the podcast like that so I think it's one of the big rules for us where

of course we it's a bit more of a tougher thing because we have to get in contact with the pr companies and the licensing rights to the distribution as well and so like if we're having to show these scenes we have to get permission from Universal we have to get permission from May 24 so they don't take the video down and so of rule is if we can't get Clips we don't interview the person I've completely revamped or rethinking how podcasts are presented where i' I like to describe it as a podcast video essay where

we show them like 5 seconds from that clip and we ask them hey tell us what you did here and they'll Pro and talk about those that 5 Seconds of choices over the course of two three minutes and then in the editing we just show the actual clip and essentially kind of created like a DVD commentary in a way of them breaking down that sequence and so yeah what it means is that it's we get to actively see the choices that they make by the questions that we're asking them and then we get into this

really high deeper details of them breaking down those scenes and we just simply do it by priming them we just show them 5 seconds and we ask them what decisions did you make here and then we just use all of that for them to then essentially break down their scene or their those cuts and their choices I've been listening to a lot of podcasts that do talk about editing I was like yeah so I had this problem and so we did this and then we fix it that way and I'm like well I didn't know

how you fix that problem I want you to show me and so part of it is US asking permission to get the scene without music get the scene with just dialogue or even get the scene with just sound effects I've now got a great sound effects library but um but it's it's we ask specifically for that permission so they themselves can talk it through so it makes it so much more interesting when I was watching your show you just feel really engaged with the things that you know you're putting out now it's awesome you also

have you've transitioned a lot of your business as well you came out this last I believe last year with a with an editing course yes so tell me about the decision to to build an editing course cuz we you know we have digital products as well and it was one of those things where once I made a digital product that was successful it made it so I didn't have to take work from brands or clients that I didn't want to work with or that maybe I didn't have the best experience with in the past and

it it really opened my mind to what's possible because you could wake up and have a digital product sell while you're asleep and then you're like wow I didn't work for 10 hours today that was kind of crazy to have this that realization so how is it been for you what's been the feedback from it for me that's the benefit but never the intent as to why I made the course but I do agree it's now giving me the luxury that I get to choose what projects to go on rather than feeling obligated to to

do one but I think the reason why I wanted to start the course was that there's some Advanced editing Concepts that are actually really hard hard to package on on YouTube it's like you know like I have to package a lot of my YouTube videos like this one editing trick make sure you know this one otherwise you're going to fall behind I'm like I [ __ ] hate that stuff and so I actually wanted to collect the really fantastic Advanced editing and storytelling Concepts that I know that are actually hard to package but then putting

it in a library that people can then digest where I don't have to do edutainment like I can actually give them straight up practical education on how to be doing these editing and storytelling Concepts and so I didn't have to write jokes I didn't have to uh skim over things I was able to spend some decent time really diving deep into that concept for that audience that wanted to have that education the benefit of that is because if I was to put those videos on YouTube and let's just say 100,000 people watch it but only

really a, people would actually benefit from that the rest the rest of 990,000 would go with this video's [ __ ] and it would click off within the first a minute or so and then and then that's just going to kill the video and then that a thousand people that I do want to watch will probably never know that video exists and so I had to put it off of the platform to therefore make sure that the people that do want the actual deeper education can find it and it's a lot more accessible for them

and so that was why I made that call of course and so I think I've made it for those people it is the super fans it is the people that do uh what so if it is the 2 three four 5,000 people that would have the best value with when I'm able to give them the 100% education I saw a clip recently of Tiger Woods on the golf course and he was golfing with must have been some like bartool people or something and this guy was like tiger I keep doing this like I keep slicing

can you watch my swing and tell me what to fix M and he watches it and goes oh easy fix and he's like do this is there something that you see like if you're Tiger Woods right and you're watching somebody's video what is a mistake or an easy fix that you see in amateur editors that can easily take you from amateur to Pro maybe this is one of the philosophies that Jimmy did teach me which is confirm the click it is if the title and thumbnail is this you have to reassure that they've made the

right decision and so it's actually reiterating uh the title and thumbnail and that doesn't mean in this video I'm doing this it's like here's why you can trust me here's why I can give you a good experience and so many times I see a title and thumbnail and then the video opens with a completely different subject and completely unrelated and so that that to me then goes okay well like there is zero correlation zero relation to what you just promised me I'm out uh but then also part of it is then also if they're doing

the over animated subtitles I'm out if they are shouting in a video I'm out if their microphone isn't got doesn't have good quality I'm out um I can go on for quite a while actually Shark Tank you're like and for that reason I'm out I do I very much like that um one of my other Favorite Things is uh a lot of filmmaker YouTube channels make this mistake they open with a cinematic wide shot I'm out [ __ ] that it's like it's cuz the reason why it's uh and so actually the biggest mistake I

do feel is the message that you do give to your audience of who is this made for and so when I do see a cinematic drone opening shot that's not particularly related to the title and thumbnail what that tells me is that you're prioritizing yourself as a filmmaker and showing off how good you are rather than actually telling me a good story uh it is look how look how long I spent grading this drone shot in Da Vinci look how cool I am [ __ ] that I'm out that's actually probably the biggest mistake I

do see it is putting ego as a filmmaker first rather than is this actually going to be a good story and content I don't know if you've done merch but [ __ ] that I'm out should be what what are your thoughts on Sam CER well I didn't want to call him out now I do very much do like Sam C I've he is what I would call A vibe filmmaker he's really great Vibes and it's cool to experience that but I've never felt story with hi buddy I've never felt story with him but him

as a as a Vibe filmmaker I don't know how to do any of that and so I don't really feel like I have the right to call him out on that because he's doing stuff that I don't know how to do that's one of my big rules if they have a talent in something I shouldn't really be that much of a [ __ ] towards it and so yes he is a phenomenal Vibe filmmaker but story is the thing that he has that he I would like for him to improve on I talk about your

timeline and kind of get in the nitty-gritty of editing do you pull everything on one timeline string out then you make another timeline like what what do your timelines look like I use the V philos the V1 V2 V3 philosophy and so V1 is just like the string out of absolutely everything I would then duplicate that cut everything down to maybe the assembly that's my V2 and then maybe then like maybe trim things down a little bit more that's my V3 and like I'm not doing any editing specifically just yet I'm just trying to get

down stuff that I know I'm going to use and then this has become one of the most important steps for me that's still so hard and I still struggle with this I even struggled it on the last video I was doing with Michelle it is can I get the story to work without me editing it so like can I get can I get these shots to talk to each other can I get this sound bite related to this clip can I get can I get all of this stuff to work can I get the structure

of the entire thing before I put in music before I start grading it before I putting in sound design that I will spend so long doing and then and what I would then do would be okay if I'm going this looks interesting I'm going to experiment with this idea we putting these two clips together let me just duplicate it and that's now our V8 uh okay that didn't work delete now I'm back on V7 oh this is a new idea oh let me this this is must might be change let's duplicate it now got a

new V8 I've tried to experiment oh that works great and then I keep on going and then they'll be like oh but I oh but this experiment 5 minutes later this is might be a bit of a big change let me try this again this a v9 didn't work delete oh this one this might be change v9 that worked and then I keep on building so what this means is that uh I I always get to go back so uh if I if there's something cuz I think we've all had that when there's something that

we thought was amazing at 10 p.m. and then we look back back we look back at the next morning and go that was [ __ ] awful but now I never happens to me just me then I have such a funny example remember when we edited Josh was xan's or the wisg music video so we're editing it and there's two characters there's him in present day or at night like finding something baby pictures of himself it's like about being young or whatever and then there's also him DJing very separate completely separate always and then I

go on a walk I um with a friend who brought some something that changed my mind a little bit about stuff come back and I'm like Josh I have a [ __ ] genius idea I'm like this guy is pointing to the guy he's like you're celebrating each other like you're interacting now and he's like that is wild and I'm like yeah dude I'm feeling it and and the next morning I'm like there's no way this is good look at it it's [ __ ] great we printed it dude printed it but usually I couldn't

agree more usually I'm like wow that's bad or like even before bed I'll like write down like this is such a good idea and then I wake up the next morning I'm like what the [ __ ] that one that one hit yeah I I spent on the last video I spent two days on a 30C sequence I was in flow day I was on fire I was like this is amazing and then the next day I then went to go show it to Michelle and the director Garrett and I can tell you there is

nothing more powerful than the feeling of Shame when you realize what you've done is garbage and so I was like guys like Michelle Garrett this is amazing I've changed everything you guys ready let me show just one bit and in the second start playing went oh no what have I done it was like you know it's like that that final shot in Oppenheimer and I was like I just glazed over like oh no it was awful and that clip ended and I turned to Michelle and Garett and I just went I'm sorry I didn't like

like that was terrible I'll delete it you know I hyped it up like the day before Oh no funny dude but to but to do all of this it's like I won't get until like V12 or v15 when I have all of the story can be told by itself then I will then start music editing color grading sound design maybe transitions all of that stuff is the fun part but and we can get too excited about that us as editors as filmmakers like we get excited about doing that but the biggest rule for me is

that I have to get the story to live by itself and then I then support it with all of these external assets and external ideas because that can then become distracting and then as I said we as filmmakers want to show off how great filmmakers we are rather than is this actually good for the story what's this new project that you're working on with Michelle well I think the video as a recording hasn't been released yet and they've asked for me to keep it private okay something something so don't ask that thums thumbs right here

something you said though that I think is so important that it's hard for me too is like I think it's my ego if I'm just editing something say I didn't shoot it I'll edit it and I want to include one thing or a couple things that's clever to show that I was there you know what I mean which is pretty just my ego I think and like I'll fight people and I'm like no like that was a really clever thing I did like with the alarm clock that I like flipped through it like that was

an editing trick that I did it shows that I was here and people are like no we don't need that I'm like I fight it though because it's for my ego I realized and I'm trying to be better at just serving the [ __ ] story and not trying to show I was there it's it's look it that problem will never go away right but we have to be conscious of is this for my ego or is this the best thing for the film and sometimes we forget that it happens every single day it's like

rather than us saying look how great of a filmmaker I am is this like cool those Fast Cuts was great for you but it told me nothing right and I think that's that's that is still for me one of the biggest pet peeves uh for me that I that I still fall into that trap we're never ever going to lose and forget that and so it is the discipline yeah we have to be conscious of when our ego gets in front of the story so many of these things that you're talking about like I don't

do because I don't really I don't edit narrative style or Vlogs or anything like that but I will say cuz you gave a specific example I do a lot of like concert work and when I was first starting out um I was filming and I was kind of just filming like the artist and then the manager was like your videos are probably about like 70 or 80% there you're kind of missing like that ump or like those specific moments and I was like well what is that and then I realized I wasn't really capturing like

the full essence of a show so like if they're in a club like I wasn't getting any of like the textures or the details like the sparklers or like the fans or you know the CO2 the fire all that kind of stuff and so once I started capturing those details I feel like my videos for music stuff specifically changed it's not narrative but like I think it's important to capture those little details when it comes to like concert stuff the best stories are often not the actual story but the reaction to the story and so

yeah I guess it is if if the artist does a gesture cut to the F girl go oh my God you know that's the actual thing that we want that's the actual real meat yeah if he if he does a gesture and the lights go off cut to the wide and then like and then and then like hold on to that wide when everyone just when the crowd loses their [ __ ] yeah like I've never edited a concert video well I think I did I did the Holly Festival once in London and that was

fun but again I I mostly cut to just the crowd's reactions cuz that's the re cuz if I would assume if most people watching it they are fans and so relating it to the perspective of the crowd they now get to feel like they've experienced the concept themselves it's just crazy that you can take concepts for editing you know and put it into whether it's a 2hour movie a 15 minute YouTube video or like a 30C edit for Instagram why do we Define them as individuals it's the same thing it doesn't matter where you doing

it a short I would treat the shorts the same way I would treat a feature film it's like cuz bottom line what we're doing is we're putting this subject here a reaction towards it cutting back to this and then another reaction and that's all editing it is just it is exact same concept across no matter what platform and distribution platform that you're using we all doing the exact same thing and so of course a film editor can nerd out of a shorts editor because we are having the exact same discussions yeah give me your advice

to your 18-year-old self before we get out of here I think 18-year-old self had was very insecure of where he was and I can and I wish I could tell him it's going to be okay and people and the value that you see the value that you want for yourself you will achieve you just have to be patient Hayden thank you so much for coming on episode 107 make sure leave us a comment drop a subscribe and we'll see you all next week peace PE