Vivek: Kicked out of DOGE? Elon Beef? Trump Relationship and More

what's up everybody and welcome to the podcast and today we are joined once again listen this is not the case at all he's definitely not running for governor of Ohio I know that for sure I mean he'll tell you in a moment that he's definitely not going to do that give it up for vivc ramaswami he's not are definitely not going to be the governor of Ohio right people loved you in Ohio man we this guy's coming Bring The Comedians first The Comedians and then the industry he's going to save the cat dogs man everybody

all forms of life all forms of life life okay okay so we there's a lot of things going on here yeah there's a lot going on there's a lot things a lot of things going on I need to know about Doge what happened this you're on this podcast you give us this beautiful Soliloquy about the man herero class we're move and like it was so important that I was like I need you to break it down dumb obviously you're a very smart guy you guys say that break it down downb but I know you're you're

into the center of it I remember that convers sixth grade I'm a we're sixth grade no I'll tell you if you you can't explain it to a sixth grader it means you don't understand it yourself that's what said quick okay okay ready okay so this I see you just deliver this amazing thing it's crazy on Twitter everybody like got then after we met where one of the core chapters was about dismantling the administrative state so this this is my passion absolutely yeah all of the sudden Trump announces that you and Elon are running do yes

I'm so excited I'm like finally this is going to happen it's amazing yeah and then you say you hate American workers or something come he said they were too dumb too dumb none of the above oh we need to light a fire under we can talk a lot about talk about under Fe we're going to talk about that in a second but uh but no so what happened and now you're leaving Doge right on the precipice of actually cleaning up the government getting the managerial class out of there fixing everything we got a good Head

Start by the way in the two months leading up to inauguration yeah but I'll uh I I'll give you the high level there's there's there's a short story long story I can give you the short story for sure and the short story both are accurate but but the short story I can give you the short story is it evolved from a focus on where I was focused legal constitutional issues legislative issues of if you want to save a lot of money you got to do it through legislation if you want to look at the Supreme

Court landscape for the last few years it says a lot of these regulations are unconstitutional that's where I had been focused and you know the way it's gotten started you could see this publicly as well is much more of a technology and digital technology Focus okay so just slow down for a second so you were going to use the Constitution to remove legislation well to remove regulations regulations so you're going to use legislation to remove I've written about this for for the last year right so can you give an example of that yeah I give

a good example of that so you know not to get too academic too quickly but basically Congress is supposed to pass the laws and the executive branch is supposed to enforce the laws but it turns out that most of the laws that decide what you can and can't do in your life were actually never passed by Congress they were passed by people who are never elected to their position the managerial class the managerial class the bureaucrats in DC what's law give me an example so so so they don't call laws they call them rules but

they have the effect of laws right uh let's say the amount of fees that fishermen have to pay to the government to have a license to be able to fish in a particular area let's say it is the registration requirement before a bank or an asset manager is allowed to do business let's say it is the procedural hoop that a biotech company has to jump through before advancing from phase one to phase two the development process let's say it's the permission that a coal miner or a nuclear energy plant has to get as permission from

the government before they build a new nuclear energy plant which by the way has not happened in 20 years in this country because the red tape associated with doing so is so impossible now I imagine none of those were passed by Congress yes none of those were passed by people that we the people elected right they were written into law they call them rules but effectively into law Yeah by unelected bureaucrats right and the thing is that's not a democracy right it might be something else but it's not a democracy because in a democracy if

somebody makes a law that affects you yeah you get to V them out that's what it makes a law these are more like edicts yeah edicts come from a king because you can't vote them out this doesn't come from a king but it's a new kind of Edict of a bureaucracy so just so I can problem you're not against regulation as long as it's decided by democratically elected officials that's my most foundational principle it so happens in my own politics I'm generally pretty Li Aran I tend to be against I think most of these regulations

tend not to be need regulations but but the most important principle is if you're going to have it at least let the people who it affects to say it's not working out for me I want to be able to vote you out I need to be able to vote you out that's the most important principle just so we can understand like a lot of this probably probably comes from Good Intentions oh absolutely right so these aren't like evil people necessarily there's evil there there there's there's certainly malicious people in all kinds of domains and government

is no to that and you can see some EG examples of it but by and large I think what we're talking about the regulatory State the overwhelming majority of federal bureaucrats who I've met are good people because most people are good people yeah and they believe what they're doing is not for the detriment of the American people for the of the American but it's for the betterment of the American people it's a kind of elite benevolence yes and it's sort of skeptical of democracy because the idea that you could just leave it to Ordinary People

to decide this complicated we can't it people they're going harm to exactly exactly and that was the whole premise of the British Monarchy it's kind of the whole premise of the modern federal bureau but I get that I think it's it's nice to not paint all these people who are creating this I what do you call get creating tape you know regulation exactly as nefarious because most by and large most human beings are not nefarious and a lot of times it's reactionary like I think there most human beings are good people yeah there was there

was like a fire in New York I'm pretty sure and I think um one of the room was created in like an apartment building and I think a fireman died because they built the room but didn't ask the city per permission so the plot or the plan that they had so then I think what the knee-jerk reaction was to say you cannot do anything to your apartment without permission for the whole city I'm probably butchering this no but it's it's the kind of example you see all the time exactly and I get that knee-jerk reaction

cuz you want to protect firemen these guys are brave they're running into a fire it's actually a great example because you see that same type of incentive structure show up all the time where someone at the FDA they rarely will get hauled in front of some hearing if they fail to approve a drug that saves lives but if they do approve a drug that has some unintended side effects then they're going to be in the public eye so their incentive is to is to go in One Direction not the other does that make them an

evil person no most human beings just respond to the incentives that they have while still in their heart of hearts believing that they're doing good that's the way the f IDE for well and we laid it out so there was there was a Wall Street Journal oped that we co-authored soon after it was written focused on a this constitutional approach where the Supreme Court in the last couple of years came out and said actually most of those rules are actually unconstitutional because they didn't go through Congress that's a big freaking deal happen a couple years

ago so we got that toolkit and then if you want to really tackle government spending which is a separate prong the budget set in Congress there's no way around that right the budget is set by Congress if you want to cut trillions of dollars you got to go to the core of that budget process so that was where where my focus and our Focus was I think if you look at you know now what's taken off and I think it could be great it's very much a digital technology first approach what does that mean well

I mean you can I'll let you read the executive orders that came out last week and like I said I'll we're we got guy right here I know I know that's you know so so I'll be um I'll stay I'll leave it at what I'm able to say which is you know sort of what you can see publicly very technology focused approach and that there's nobody better to take a technology Focus Centric approach than Elon and by the way we ended up having a pretty open discussion amongst all of us that if my focus is

on the legal constitutional policymaking functions that's where my passion has been the right way for me to realize my own vision is through elected office and but not the governor will or anything all of those except that one position announcement will be coming of some kind in the next couple of weeks got it but I will say that even some of the the regulations you brought up right the fireman example yeah most of those regs aren't just federal regulations in fact most of them that affect people at everyday lives are also at the level of

the state right and you know I think short of being a president when you think about driving executive action to improve people's lives yeah I think a Governor's seat is probably the single best way to actually do it correct me if I'm wrong and so that's why I land correct me if I'm wrong wouldn't you and Elon coming in as Doge isn't that the same as unelected bureaucrats coming in to make a bunch of rules so so I think it's a super Fair it's a super Fair uh question of building that over the couple of

months the question is it's one thing if you are undoing the actions of people who have actually affirmatively made rules versus making new rules of your own so you're not going to make any rules you're just taking away rules I think if you're roll if you're if you're rolling back if you're rolling back rules and actually cutting bureaucratic over growth it's one thing to come in and say you're going to hire a million Federal bureaucrats without any authorization from Congress to do it it's another to say there are 4 million many of whom were hired

without that authorization we need to scale that headcount back it's another thing to say all these regulations showed up with Congress never authorizing them it's another to say they're illicit unless they go through Congress right so that was that was the premise it's a one-way ratchet if there's been a federal government overgrowth and a lot of that was never authorized by the Democratic process then it's one thing to say okay then all of that in order to comply with the Constitution has to be rolled back you can't make it without authorization but how would you

apply all new tech uh you said El trying to do like Tech driven rules yeah so I'm I'm going to let wouldn't that be new rules well so I Shar with you I shared with you my my Outlook was and what what brought me to the project and I'm super rooting for success and and hopeful for success for what's going to come from a technology approach we we different philosophy and approach and emphasis yeah talk that no talk that well the the me wife PHH the truth of the matter is I think he's I think

there's nobody better in the world to run a technology focused approach to fixing the federal government the neon and if that's where the focus is I'm rooting for their success and similarly when I'm thinking about my legal constitutional legislative focus and downsizing government it's hard to argue the best way to do that isn't through actually being elected in my own right I'm sorry I'm having trouble understanding what the technology-driven approach would be can you what does that mean I mean St I'll say is at that point I'm rle or whatever I would say I truly

don't know what that means all I hear you I hear you I think we're probably reaching the outer bounds of what I'm going to what I'm able to talk about but stay tuned and I'm Roo for Success it's not it's not I mean I gave you what my Outlook is cu I can speak for my I could speak for my Outlook think there I think there's an opportun is there an opportunity to make things more efficient using digital technology I believe there is but that's a different that's a different but before you guys started it

did you have this conversation about what your outlooks were for this program we co-wrote a um Wall Street Journal oped that's out there that laid out a vision that's pretty consistent and did change well I think it's it's a first of all did you see him Sal off it's a people I can't believe people lost their minds over there no it looks nothing like a people are so crazy aren't they people are so dumb for seeing that and thinking was something else what retards we got right words man you I uh I I think that

there was a evolution in any new project right this is something like this has never been done I'll give you one example right initially this was supposed to reside outside of government yeah now it you know late in the lead up to starting ended up in the government and by the way here's another thing that happens point when it's in the government this is Animal Farm bro when it's in the government also I can't run for office at the same time there's a rule it's called The Hatch Act that stops you from independently engaging in

your own political activity or running for office while you're in the government if you're outside the government it's a different constraint so there were a lot of things that obviously were supposed to be on the outside for a lot of reasons ended up moving inside ended up having a technology first approach and so when something like this has never been done and you set it up obviously there's going to be some Evolution and it made a lot of sense given the way things you know evolved for me to say you know what this is the

right way for me to achieve my vision and goals for for the country and to wish success in taking technology driven approach within the federal government and that's where we landed I think that that seems like you guys had a what is it called amicable breakup is that we're super friendly on a personal level yeah it's just sometimes a mutual decision is very much so exactly that's what I say when I get dumped what is your what do you say to that I both parties say that no no but what do you say to that

when you see that you know I'm sure you saw like tweets or articles or something like that where it's like oh the administration is pushing vivec out yeah and what is the reaction to that do you call up Donnie and you're like yo what good I mean the I ran I ran for I ran for president and get I mean the number the amount of you wrote that you will read about yourself if you put yourself in the public eye at some point you just you sort of get used to it and deal with it

a price and cost of doing business if you want to change the country right but you know look I think it is do I feel like where I'm headed right now is the right direction for me 100% is there any division in Administration between you let's say and Trump trump in our great terms yeah we have on a personal level super close got Tik to Jack here got the Spy yeah spy he actually worked for me first really oh yeah absolutely yeah yeah we uh we partnered with a lot of these people and a lot

of the people who worked on my campaign end ended up campaign a lot of people joined you know and myself too I endorse Trump and work my tail off over the last year make sure got eled incredibly loyal to the people who support him and I understand that because if you support him in any way you're going to be and you went all out so I cannot fathom like when I saw we're good we're good we're good but you and Elon there might be some no I I don't no not on a personal level but

there's a different he's a migrant you know what I mean probably I'm probably paying for him to stay in some hotel in yor right now you're paying for a lot of people stay in hotels in y That's changing very soon so what's going on what digital efficiency is going to fix that so my view my view everybody has look let's talk about Merit in the country right everybody's got their own gifts it seems like you got more Merit to be doed than some guy with four other companies you should pointed to the door you shouldn't

be like finish finish it cuz you got the mustache I do we we got one in here just give you give them you can't do it with the stash that's good especially you got good length on there but then but then comes in a little bit and you can't be like I'm Michael out of the window doesn't work it doesn't work all right guys we also got dates first of all Sacramento thank you guys so much nine soldout shows I literally just didn't have time to add more so I thank you man I it was

so such a fun weekend this weekend I'm going to be in West de Mo Iowa on Friday and Saturday the January 3 ver and February 1st and taking a couple weeks off and then February 21st and 22nd I'm in Brea California one of those shows is already sold out so buy your tickets uh then February 27th and 28th and March 1st I'm going to be in zany in Nashville March 21st and 22nd Omaha Nebraska March 28th and 29th Columbus Ohio and these dates have changed guys I was going to be in Toledo Ohio in April

but we're going to move that show I got to make up for everybody who I had to cancel on last minute in Tampa so Tampa if you missed your shot last time because I didn't make it well you didn't miss your shot I up I apologize flu got me April 10th through 13th I will be in Tampa guys get your tickets at Akash sing.com now let's get back to the show what's up guys Mark agnon's Arena tour continues all right February 27th Baltimore I will be in mobies that's right muoy joke house it's m is

great it's like a house but it's really like an it's a small Arena of a couple hundred people yeah yeah it's amazing I'll see you guys there Baltimore February 27 suck his dick don't please don't do cuz people have tried to do this and after the show they've come up to me they said aash said I had to se your day I said please don't do it only men men only yeah no that's the only who's coming I'll beon with you f suck his dick no please don't then don't even really ask it's not even

cheating no because there would be other people there that don't know about this and then they go oh yeah Akash said to suck your dick and then the other people be like what why are they trying to suck your dick and because AOS said they just anyway please don't do it you can just come to the show have fun get a drink and laugh with people that like jokes I'll see you guys there Baltimore feary 27th okay okay so you and him aren't beefing but you just had different ideas you got a bunch of people

with I imagine he opin of how to achieve similar goals you find different ways to achieve those goals did you have a combo where you're like yo I think we should actually go this direction well look I think that it was it was an evolution of where we were headed for sure I mean things you know in a new project has never been done before so initially they thought it' be outside government used the legal constitutional basis legislation ended up know really having an internal to government and a technology Centric Focus I think that's great

and I think it could be super successful and I think there's nobody with that Focus I really mean this I think there's nobody with that Focus that is going to be better positioned to do good things than Elon of course but the flip side is also at a certain point I think this is what it's going to be good for me as well is if I'm really looking at a unique constitutional vision for the future of the country grounded in my view of what our lawmaking process ought to be how do you restore self-governance in

America how do you actually rid ourselves of that managerial bureaucracy that exists at the federal but also at the state level I think I need to stand on my own feet and be elected to office to do it and I think that that's a that's a good thing that is interesting but let me ask you if you got to run Doge your way or be governor of a state in the midwest what would you do well I will tell you it was my it's been my plan for even uh before do came into existence and

after I left the campaign to pursue the path of likely running for governor of Ohio right so this something that I you know begin to really wait you're going to run for government wait is that going to happen for real imminently we'll have an announcement to make wa on yeah just announce it right here got to jump through some hoops you know what this sounds like to me inefficient sounds everything about everything about government paperwork is inefficient to me but I will say that that was something that I was committed to even before election was

decided and so when it became clear that you're not able to do certain things while being part of the federal government I made my choice about who's the sitting governor who's the guy you going he's he's actually term limited so it's a guy by Mike dwine yeah so who you going to go up against who's the other whoever chooses to run and it's just body bags all day Zip Zip are you excited look let me let me say this I I I'll never I'll never that a competitor as you guys are competitors were talking about

this can't believe you let this African kick you out of do bro so when when you're talking about competing in an election don't my you actually not that bad I like you send the Rockets you're a good guy you're a good guy I like him he's going to do great things he's going to do great things but yeah I a competitor but what I will say is I don't want to just win an election by some narrow margin and be another caretaker there's 50 caretakers across the country to come and go if there's an opportunity

to actually transform Ohio but also to show what is possible to the rest of the country by standing for excellence you need a mandate to do that so you can't win by a little bit you got to win by a lot and so I'm in this to be not just in by some sort of marginal Victory and be another you know nanny for a state government for a while but to really go in and and change the place for the better and if you think about it Silicon Valley right has been at the bleeding edge

of the American economy for the last 20 years just by market capitalization by Innovation I think the Ohio River Valley can be the you want to bring Silicon Valley to Ohio even one step more than that to go to the next level where Silicon Valley isn't in terms of production because I do think that's going to be the next wave of actual true innovation in America is actually producing semiconductors how do you producing get a lot more H1B visas in starts with rolling back do these Americans BR we just got Americans this country there's no

way we can figure out engineer four us right here right figure out what the man class is we too dumb you know what the sad part is yes we're actually some people say that what do you mean some people say that some people say sit on couch right now he's sitting right here the guy who says no actually so to the contrary okay yeah cuz I said this in my now Infamous got he got that was all me the problem with me the problem with me with my tweets is nobody else reads him before I

put him out that is all me the chionship game you're like all right you have a busy year and you're on vacation with your family yeah maybe put down the Twitter account for a little while take in Brazil and I was just like you know you saw them work and you were like no these well so so the thing is I actually the thing that pissed me off is actually a lot of people started saying the thing that you were saying which is that actually there's some IQ differential in other countries versus the US I

don't think so actually we got to be the smartest I think that if anything we are because we have a good selection bias of who comes here but but there's a big problem so if we have at least no less smart and probably Smarter on average than most countries if not all countries because of the selection bias of who comes here yet in eth grade let me ask you're still saying it's the immigrants that come here make us smart no I mean they're here for Generations saying they're here for Generations just say if if you

want it to be you want to just say white Christians are the smartest and everything will be okay okay just say say Christ is King and we're the smartest that's it here's the problem man eth grade I'll ask you a question yeah what percentage of eighth graders are for their age proficient in math compared to International standards anybody have a guess four 4% oh you're you're pretty pessimistic you're not bad though it's 25% yeah so 75% of our eighth graders compared to just other developed countries 25% of our class is Asian 25 they didn't do

they didn't do the demographic break down right so that's a problem so I think it is offensive for us to just say it's a problem for us 25% are actually 100% that could do math and they're still poor the other countries like how you still in the third world and all of you know math apparently math is unimportant this is in the developed worldle but you should be focusing on shooting schools up or something that can make your country you know the leader of the first world what what this is what I'm getting from the

data I'm getting that math is not important at all to have the most powerful country in the world I think that the question is whether we're going to have the most powerful country in the world and that's what I'm worried about so you know we can we can you can Flex all you want don't make me go Kangaroo on you right now and I think I think that we are the greatest country known to the history of mankind I do of course but we have to have the humility to understand where we got to be

better and I don't think complacency is an option and I don't think I mean look at the news of the day or the news of this week right you got new AI technology coming out of China that somehow takes Everybody by surprise here because with a lot less in computing power they were smart in the way that they were able to use less computing power to still achieve a similar result deep seek we can have that discussion later we are going to get our asses handed To Us by China unless we get our act together

and light a fire under the feet of our culture I think that's a hard truth no I agree with that I think we might I think we might need to them up right now I mean this is really the only chance we got we need to them up right what do we do forget anybody else we did it to their neighbors let actually just what you say different neighbors this guy's crazy we can't he's saying nuke China That's not what I'm saying how about just how about just being better on our own terms right that's

crazy idea crazy idea I think Gap is too big we got to so at least you're talking about it but I do think can't hide and have our heads in the what do they do better than us this is the whole discussion this is the whole disc I don't know what I was doing was he saying the the the AI Computing I think 6% so so maybe we don't want the best engine right what did they do yeah so there was this thing called Deep seek that just came out you hear about it no okay

no worries it's new the last couple of days deep seek yeah is that the Bonnie Blue [Laughter] video many kinds of Engineers Engineers of Comedy I like that how know that video where's your wedding r examination go go go go go go so anyway there's this thing that really surprised everybody which with a lot less computing power because we've had these export bands on chips go into China the thought was they don't have access to the same type of computing power that other companies and that's the issue with AI right now is the computing power

right or so it was thought and they solved that issue well it's it's it's complicated so under conditions of scarcity where they had these export controls they still came out of nowhere and said you know what with a lot fewer chips and a lot less powerful chips they nonetheless created a generation of air that at least looks as competitive as the bleeding edge of what we're producing in the United States and you know there's there's a lot yet to be known but they trained this using phrases rather than individual words instead of going out 32

decimal places on a number they only used eight decimal places the way they trained the AI they ended up being a lot scrappier in doing it and we can have the whole discussion about deep seek can it get boring pretty quickly but my point is we will see examples daily weekly of other countries including China having our asses handed to US unless we wake up and as a Sputnik like moment say we are the greatest nation and we're going to act like it and we believe that hard work and education and Excellence rather than victimhood

is the way to do it and so the funny thing for me is I've been saying this for years it's not a different message for me I've been preaching it to the woke left yeah I wrote the book woke Inc I wrote nation of victims a couple of years ago and it was perceived as an attack on victimhood culture because that's what it was in the US but what I intended it as a wakeup call and I think many of the same people who supported me in delivering that message to the woke left may have

initially had a different interpretation of it when I talked about holistically I'm talk everybody talking straps meant Timberlands I think and they loved it I think you know to Puff our to Puff our chest abroad we all got to pull up our pants yeah I agree all of us I agree there a whole pull up your pants thing we all got to pull up our pants okay and we got to be serious we got to balance our budget we got to actually spend in accordance with what we actually bring in we got to seal our

border we got to teach our kids how to do math and how to read and how to write and I want excellence in every domain by the way I don't think we should be a country of only Engineers but if we want to be the country where we say companies hire American Born workers that's what we all want we got to ask ourselves at least a hard question this is what this is what people got upset about and they may get upset about me saying it right now but it's a question that you have have

to confront which is why are these companies choosing on their own to not hire as many American Born workers as we want it's a it's a tough question but we can't hide from asking that question if you care about this country I care about this country too much to just ignore that question because that might be politically convenient and by the way the H1B system I I hate doing this because it's so lame in in sort of just repeating yourself I've said it like 150 times in the last year it is a broken Systema a

flaw it is badly broken why why cuz there's all kinds of things are messed up quickly describe what it is it's a worker visa program that allows it's about 85,000 of them Grand at a year where companies can get a foreign worker in a specific role of a specific skill set often used by technology companies and when you say foreign you mean Indian India is the number one country that uses it we got an H1B here don't we I think you got China you got other countries as well okay I you might there about 85,000

but here's here's the deal with it first of all it's distributed by lottery so my view is that colleges they pick the very best at least they think for their University we're not individually picking it's a lottery that's number one number two is if you work for a particular company with an H1B here's the big problem you are like an indentured servant to that company because another company can't hire you so the Market's not really working okay so I have for a long time and you get under over you're constantly afraid of getting sent back

so they take and then also you could argue that that compresses American wages because that person can't be hired away so the company has them under a barrel to pay them less There are rules to prevent that but then companies may be abusing it and Sid stepping those rules and you're afraid to reported if so it is it is a it is not only a broken system it is a deeply flawed system in its application and I've said this 100 times maybe 150 times in the last year but assume we fix all of that and

and by the way I've got some outof thebox ideas for how to fix this M I'd say auction them off actually make the companies pay for it get back to that and by the way use that money get back change the word if you a them all right then you actually raise enough money Social Security the right is on your side so we've got $44 billion we we don't have enough money for Social Security way to fill it the compies pay more the talk a friend of it you're you're being very high Q the EQ

is when you say auction I'm off the black people are like what are we talking yes do anymore we're just I mean we're we're this if this guy can joke around I'm going to be as Loose as I can be too but the point is make them pay for it make them make sell sell the flesh sell their flesh to the highest Visa Vis sell their visa sell their visa to the highest bitter their flesh take their flesh and sell it coming out un States America pay to America right so you want to make America

great we got a social security Gap close the Social Security Gap by saying that if a company wants to hire somebody with the equivalent of a new H1B system make them actually pay so there's a higher barrier to hire that foreign born worker but the company will pay whatever it's worth to them to do it and by the way when they do it they shouldn't be endangered servant in that company they can work at a different company that's a pretty efficient approach and it could actually use to you know close the Social Security trust fund

gap or anything else it sounds to me right now those are wonky policy Solutions but the deeper question though because everyone likes to go there I agree this and get to the hard question say even after you have that system yeah I believe it is likely that companies will still in some measure hire workers that include workers from other countries and by the way a lot of CEOs what they'll say behind closed doors and what they do behind closed doors is if you tell them they can't do it here they start opening up sites in

other countries that's what's happening some of the most successful startups in the country right now founded by names of people who you I'm not going to betray confidences you all would recognize have told me in recent weeks right in response to all of this what people need to know know is that I'm actually building teams in places like Brazil in places like not because they're just it's cheaper there's a there there's a yeah if you're not getting does matter not good for America hire Brazilian engineer it's not good for America right it's not good for

America when you create those jobs in other countes so what they the question is how do we address the deeper question of they make great airplanes yeah well kind of what like what what is like a great Brazilian piece of engineering what if it's not my choice to make it's not my choice to make I'll give you give you decisions that other CEOs are making that's not good for America we want this to be the country where the greatest things come out of our own homeand I agree so the question to ask the hard question

is why when given the choice are companies not making the choice to hire more American Born workers than we want we got to reflect on that and then there's there's a separate question so they got that observation right now you got a separate observation before you go to the second question no no it's related it's related 25% of eighth graders and only 25% are actually proficient in math that's a separate fact are those two facts total coincidences like is that just a random coincidence that we now live in a period where American companies are choosing

I don't love this but are choosing not to hire as many American Born workers at the exact same time that our educational system is producing lackluster results in math science and engineering are those just random coincidences or might those have something to do with each other I we could explore if they do I'm not I'm not I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm convinced either but I'm saying that this has to be the conversation we're able to have rather than getting upset that the question was asked and I care too much about this country to

do it and I think that Messengers matter and one of the things I learned from this is you know people people see the message through the messenger a little bit and for where I sit to be super clear about it this is the only country I will ever pledge allegiance to I have nowhere else to go this is the country I will die fighting for if I have to and so you know what when you care about somebody you tell them the truth yeah and if you care about yourself you tell them what they want

to hear yeah and I I was consistent with that with the left it was hard for me to preach a message to the left when we took a lot of arrows before criticizing W culture now that's a cool thing to do yeah that was not a cool thing to do when I started doing it because I don't think that victimhood culture is good for black people I don't think it's good for white people I don't think it's good for any American people I don't think victimhood culture lifts us up we're Victors not victims that's who

we are but I apply that principle across the board in America that all of us not pointing the finger anybody else includes looking in the mirror myself as a guy who's raising kids in this country yeah that I worry about and I see how hard that is I want all of us to create a country where those kids still grow up in a country where Excellence is the priority in math and Engineering sure sport s arts music everything but we are a country where we pursue Excellence we don't penalize somebody for being a striver right

that has a negative connotation to it today our country was built on hard workers and Strivers whatever domain we also shouldn't be intimidated yeah we should be intimidated like we should have confidence we're Americans like you're coming here and I'm going to beat you right I'm going to beat you like I want you to come over I want to give you all the Visas and I'm going to still outperform and I think once we start going we are the best we and American accept ISM was based on this idea of manifest destiny Manifest Destiny of

a nation and the reason we could do that is because other countries have National identities that are different than ours yeah right Italy or Japan or you could go straight great countries love both countries but their national identity is based on a lineage right whether you speak the language whether your blood stock your stock of blood goes back five generations that's thousand of years old yes yeah where's where's America I believe ideology is a nation founded on set of principes yes right yes there's a beautiful Geographic space in a Homeland we love and hold deer

but that Homeland has changed makes right it used to be 13 colonies then you got the Louisiana Purchase then you have out west then you had Alaska Hawaii maybe there will be more to it to be coming soon but it doesn't it doesn't matter the land is not the core element of America the blood and soil is important but it's not the essence the essence is what are the ideals that bind us together across those otherwise geographically diverse and expansive of differences and to me it's those ideals that we pursue exellence we believe in Merit

that the best person gets the job that you can achieve the maximum of your own potential without anybody standing in your way and speak your mind at every step of the way that's what makes America great that's why we win yeah so we have to revive that but right now I feel like especially the last four years we've gone through a little bit of a lethargic period And I think most people who may have had issues with you know the way I you know frame did you know a few weeks ago would agree with me

that we wouldn't have to make America great again if America was already perfect we should have the humility and the love of our country yeah to not only admit that but to embrace the challenge on the other side of it to say that we're still going to strive to be better than we've ever been that's who we are and that's the spirit I want to bring back in the country and if I'm being honest I think we've lost some of that but it does have to stay that way you do know the whole thing is

just good white Christian Americans don't like a brown guy holding the mirror up to their face that's what this is all about don't you dare talk that's what don't you dare talk about so it's funny it's funny say no that's what it is I reject and and in my in my arguments friendly but healthy heated arguments with the left over the last four years have been steadfast on this and I don't intend to change my position now my position in talking to the left including black audiences or places where you know there was this idea

that that if you're not black you can't say certain things I never believe that I think that your ideas stand on your own merits regardless of your own skin color and you got to express them that's what America's founded on so if that was my and I got a lot of Applause from many corridors of the conservative movement for maintaining a hard line on that but that's always been my belief and I'm not about to change that belief now either so I believe in being consistent across the board here's my fear for you the someone

who roots for you you said it yourself the messenger matters you're going to run State cons conservative I guess is a good way of putting it two having grown up in a conservative State knowing a lot of conservatives love them but there's a good percentage of them I would say 20% comfortably that are simply not going to vote for you because of your race and and or religion yeah remember and culture said I cult said this exact thing now I'm not saying you can't run or whatever my question is she she literally said this she

literally said I would not vote for him cuz he's in really have you spoken to her recently N I don't we don't have I I I don't have too much to say no let that anyway point is how do you overcome that and I I would listen this is a beautiful moment to speak to your ideals and what you believe in and I love those ideals however this is a practical problem that you will have to overcome can you just do that with ideals think so I think here's what I believe it it happens to

be true right if I'm wrong about this then I won't be a successful American politician I'm okay with that my goal in life is not to be a successful American politician my goal in this phase of my life is to change this country for the better by doing what I believe is truthful and required for saving our nation that's why I worked hard work my tail off to get Donald Trump back in office because I think at the federal level he is the guy to lead us back to our sense of self-confidence and greatness so

now when I look at what I'm doing my goal is not to map some sort of focus group path to what you're supposed to say to win an election what I care about is actually Reviving excellence in America it so happens though that I think most people including in the Republican Party agree with the core principles of meritocracy the pursuit of Excellence I do think the majority over majority I think it's and I'm not going to get 100% I'm not going to get 100% of people support me that's great it's a beauty of a democracy

so I think that the majority of people in this country and certainly I think even the majority of conservatives especially the majority of conservatives believe in hard work self-reliance self-determination Merit ocracy Excellence that's what I stand for so I believe I'll be successful and you know what I would rather speak my message and Achieve whatever whether that's success or failure I don't care about that as much as speaking the truth of what I actually believe and I think that happens to be the best electoral strategy but are you shocked were you shocked at the I

guess racial blowback that you received when you tweeted that or was that surprising to you because I did notice this sense and I do think I'm a moderate person but I noticed this sense amongst my brown Republican friends who were like shocked that this existed yeah I mean I think there a fun to me where was the racial push back there's a couple things no no no but what were they saying I mean all kinds of on the inter at all or no yeah I mean I wouldn't think they were super funny you're probably funnier

you know in the scale of of of humor at times you know sometimes they got some Banger like it might have been it might have been one or two they put you on top of a train or anything like that I didn't get that I don't get that the the surprise so I think there's a couple things going on though want the online world is not the real world I think the other thing is you look you look at actually real people in 3D I mean you got a bunch of people with Burner accounts they

can't identify who they are energy changes completely it's just it's just I'm not I could care less to be honest with you about what some sort of you know somebody calls you a name and you put yourself in the public domain and you're putting yourself in a position to be a leader in the country if that stuff's going to bother you you weren't cut out for it in the first place right and and part of my message you know it's the whole message in Reverse it applies 360° is that we're not victims right we're Victors

that's the example we set so I'm not going to be some victim of was there was there a lot of ugly racist stuff said on the internet big news flash big surprise you know what do you expect in the depths of anonymous internet so commentary I I can care less it's not going to deter me and and to the contrary what I do care about though is my goal is not just to provoke for the sake of provoking no I want to to be able to have an Earnest and open conversation in our country about

how we excel at a level that we have in the past and we're the country even think about my home state of Ohio sent Neil Armstrong John Glenn to outer space and the outer Frontiers there's no reason Ohio can't be the heart of that again there's no reason the United States of America can't view this as our Sputnik moment right now but there are many Rises and many Falls of this American experiment and when you are down a little bit you got be able to light a fire under your feet to come back that's who

we've always been but we can't just expect that to happen automatically and so I do care about an honest self-reflection as a citizen of the greatest nation known to the history of mankind how do we still pursue greatness at a higher level than we ever have I really care about that and I think that sometimes that involves tough conversations I'm game for it it's going to involve a lot of criticism along the way I'm fine with that if you can't handle the game get out of the game all right guys let's take a break a

second let's just be honest okay you need some therapy okay now there's no more taboo with mental health we understand the importance of mental health it feels good to just get some off your chest somebody's stressing you you just tell another human being that and if you tell another human being that that has specific skills to help you navigate those often deep stressful or anxiety ridden Waters you come out much better on the other side you get to be a nice therapized human being I mean look at a right hold no no anger or resentment

of anybody or football teams or any of that kind of stuff this guy is completely changed we all need to Aspire to be more therapized like AOS isn't that right AOS no I'm great to my wife I think my friends I'm a much better human being I just hate the people who need to be hated okay fair enough anyway the point that I'm trying to make is talk space can help you with that okay it just makes your life and the life of everyone around you much less stressful and probably even happier the problem is

that it's tough to start it's expensive insurance doesn't cover the health and you have to find a doctor that you trust and then drive to and from their office every single week well that completely Chang Co completely TR changed therapy and talk space was ahead of the curve they were doing this before Co put everybody in their homes okay talk space therapy ands katry are covered by many insurance plans and employers most insured members have a $0 co-pay and you can easily sign up online and get paired with a license provider that's the right fit

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your support for this show that's talkspace.com flagrant promo code space 80 now let's get back to the show all right guys we're going to take a break real quick because we need to talk about money being in debt negatively affects your life in every single way especially now interest rates are at an all-time high inflation has still made everything so expensive uh cost of living is only getting higher and if you got debt that problem just gets that out of hand even more and there are no Solutions well at least there were no Solutions until

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look into this company and take back your financial freedom to Day by visiting visiting PDS de.com flagrant let's get back to the show if people accept the root reflection how do we amarate the actual root cause sure what was that so that's what we should be talking about so I think a lot of this starts with Early Education in the country first of all a lot of this even goes to concerns about inequality I think that every kid who's born in this country starting at the age of four if not younger should have access to

the best possible school they can regardless of what their financial backgrounds love that I mean it's the truth right Universal school choice that happens by the way not at the federal level it's part of what I'm thinking about my own Next Step that happens at the state level that's really where these changes happen I think that restoring at least a norm in the country of a solid Family Foundation does that mean that somebody who grows up in a broken family environment or single parent household can't achieve great success no of course not but all else

equal it tends to be from a stable family generally to parent upbringing you're going to be able to jump higher if you're jumping from a ground that isn't shaking but a ground that's stable so I think it starts early and I think a disproportionate focus on highquality education starting Young on measuring that achievement starting young and then some cultural shift and you tend to get more of what you valorize as a culture right so I think it's fantastic that we valorize a lot of different things in American culture that are great because we produce great

comedians we produce great athletes we produce have historically produce great scientists and Engineers it's great you get more of what you valorize but what I've seen a little little bit that concerns me in in probably the last 20 years you could say you could blame some of this in the woke left but it's not exclusively at the feet of the woke left is penalizing Excellence right penalizing the person who works hard and wins and instead rewarding the victim and I think that if you reward victimhood you get more victimhood and if you penalize excellence and

hard work you're going to get less excellence and less hard work so I think it's going to be a combination of policies that allow people to have access to the best possible education at a young age and start measuring and rewarding for Success earlier merit-based pay for teachers not just everybody just getting the same thing for treating kids like they're on an assembly line but actually measuring and pinpointing the people who are putting kids on even a little bit of a trajectory that's different when they're four years old by the time they're at 12th grade

you could run a truck through that okay so those increments of difference starting even young that's a big freaking difference and and then to create a culture that we don't need to create it we need to revive it cuz it is our culture to celebrate whoever's the best to reward them to celebrate that in every domain right not just academics academics to Athletics physical Excellence I actually um to some other controversy two years ago favored bringing back the What's called the Presidential Fitness Test they used to have middle school kids go through that they take

that away now right how many push-ups can these kids do we don't valorize that type of physical Excellence we should I love Sports I I was a four-year Varsity athlete myself it sometimes can make you a better thinker too but we should embrace excellence in all of its forms rather than this thing that we kind of teach our kids to do nowadays and I'm not criticizing anybody else like my kids grow up in a really different environment than I grew up in yeah and I'm somewhat concerned about that it makes me think a lot as

a parent about how do you cultivate that same environment where we participation Dr culture right we should we should have trophies for the winners not participation trophies that was America right that was the America that produced greatness I worry a little bit about taking the guy who's a striver and using that and make that a negative connotation rather than celebrating the person who's going to put their head down work hard be it at basketball be it at the violin be it at math or be in the science competitions and I do think that that's a

culture that is American at its core maybe we've lost our way on that a little bit I think we have but bring back the culture that produced greatness at every time where we've been at our best the country that put the man on the moon the country that was the country of the Pioneers the Explorers Le and Clark Expeditions for God's sake Merit based pay for teachers is interesting I've never heard do you implement that super required yeah yeah teachers unions are an obstacle I think that there's an obstacle but I think that the idea

that you're going to have participation trophy culture in a certain participation trophy culture for kids we can't just have participation trophy culture for the people who are educating our kids either question about that should unions be able to negotiate against the state I think that in certain domains it's uncontroversial that they shouldn't Public School teachers if you're unionizing as a public school teacher who are you unionizing against the very people you're supposed to represent and but also who is rewarding that Union someone who's going to be in office for two four years and then they

move on so they don't have to deal with the repercussions of bad policy which is totally different from different kinds of unions right private sector Union came up about fighting against Monopoly power against capitalistic consolidation but public sector unions I mean even you had FDR I think actually who was who's a big Pro union guy that expressed a lot of skepticism about public sector unions and then you could talk about you know I would put police and fire that's in a different category because there are a lot of concerns that relate to how they're insured

or protected in the case of putting their own lives on the line but let's just start with the easiest example where I think most people agree I don't think public teachers unions make sense I think public teachers unions means you're unionizing against the very people you're supposed to serve for example kids who you're teaching right one of the how are you unionizing against kids what are they advocating for what you're advocating for you advocate for summer break let's just start with that so you're advocating for I talk about summer break this is super boring subject

to a lot of people I think it's a super important subject I you know include this in in one of my earlier books is you actually see regress when a kid and finishes the school year in the spring versus when they show up in the fall but kids from well to-do families that regress is really small because they're able to pay for and and seek out High engagement activity over those three months from poor or less well-to-do school districts that's where the Gap actually grows just the regress when they show up in the fall that's

just one example I think it is a nice perk of being a teacher that you have summer break but we should take a look at what produces the best results and conversely the very best aren't rewarded let's say you're actually doing the best job amongst year pack of peers of teachers in teaching kids how to excel in math and science and reading ability and critical thinking in a way that's measurable that person still gets paid the same salary which I think is way too low right now I think going to say that teachers are severely

under under so you think getting rid of unions they're going to start the state's going to be like I think the best ones would actually get paid more money especially it's in the context of of a true market-based system where the people at the level of the family have the ability whether they can afford it or not they're able to with a voucher or with a educational savings account able to choose to go to better school absolutely there's good evidence for I think you have too much faith in state budgets they are trying to cut

I mean I don't think it happens I don't think it happens magically guess I'm with I'm with you it doesn't happen autom magically but I think that great leaders can make a difference I think good leaders with the right policies at the level of the state can fix this problem this is a man here's here's why this is not going to the moon going to the Moon is a problem of physics and not every natural problem has a man-made solution this is a man-made problem and every man-made problem has a man-made solution I believe that

and if we value education as highly as he'd like then that's the budget you cut last you see what I'm saying it's not just it's not just it's not just the bud value it already it's about how you use it that's an issue it's about how you use it so take the money to administer the bureaucracy put that money in people's pockets and allow them to actually get to the best possible education they can get to either renegotiate the union contracts or maybe get rid of them Al together in a way that allows for merit

B that great just smols and dumb schools well look we're here in New York City close to downtown you got the best Traders on at a Wall Street firm they make most profit for the firm which is their mission they get paid more rather than the guy who didn't why would we want to operate our schools you know in a way that's the opposite princip how would you decide what Merit is for a teacher standard these you know there's there's there's upsides and downsides to just be slaves of the test right nobody just wants to

solve for one metric but you know there's going to be no perfect system I'll be the first to acknowledge that but is a system that has a combination of objective metrics even if the metrics aren't perfect better than one that has none at all I think it's strictly better right so I think we can't let the fact that you're going to have some flaw in whatever metric you use to say that therefore we're not going to use be paralyzed trying to be perfect exactly exactly let the perfect not be the enemy of the good right

and I do think that we're not at the good right now yeah when it comes to doing Justice by our kids in preparing them to be compe and I think that's part of where the victimhood culture comes from I mean even in a state if you if you train your kids to be actually prepared to compete then they don't think of themselves as victims I think we also have consider that like sometimes teachers are at the mercy of the families that these kids are born into absolutely and we can't punish teachers because you know they

have a class of 30 kids who all from single parent households agre it's like it's not it's not their fault they have the made hours a day the other and that was the that was the other point I made so those are those would be the two biggest changes for the country is restoring a solid rock solid Family Foundation as the norm how do you do that through policy yeah some of it is at least eliminate the disincentives to do it right I think there are accidents I don't think that somebody nefariously did this to

the point we were talking about earlier yeah but there are weird distortions where actually people can make more money by not having a man in the house than to have a man in the house I think those are accidents of arithmetic in the way that the Great Society under lynon Johnson worked out so that's not going to solve all the problem but at least start with eliminating the disincentives I think some of this does just happen through policy some of it happens through cultural norm shifts as well making it cool to be part of a

family I think making family cool again is a great thing for the country yeah I do think that when our leaders are able to you know I even even my own Journey over the last couple of years we did it as a family but we showed the world that we did it as a family too and to people my age and to the Next Generation I think that's a great Norm to set and to show the country that fathers and mothers equally are invested our kids what's that how do you reinforce that yeah how do

you bake that into the identity of an American family you know I think I think I think we're going to see it happen I think it already I'm pretty optimistic because I see that dial turning a little bit even in just the way that Hollywood might make a movie right what kind of movie appeals to what really are the masses of Americans who agree with these Concepts it's almost like a business opportunity that opens up once you give people the permission to think a little bit differently and so that's one of the things I love

about this election is it has mostly turned the page on at least the woke cancel culture in a way that I think is productive mostly has given people a sense of permission to speak openly and rethink I think a lot of the toxicity of the last few years I think we're going to see as you see a lot of Corporations may be responding and that's a different discussion about how they're thinking about you know di programs or whatever but I think you're going to see similar similar evolution in the Arts right the kind of songs

that people make the kind of movies that people make not some boring stuff that hits you over the head and preaches about the importance of having a family but what you show as a norm of what's actually beautiful and worthy and desirable in America I think that culture will reinforce policies that also take away the disincentives for family F what you're saying longterm project what you're saying sounds really good and maybe I'm just misunderstanding but I don't think that's a real thing I don't think that's a real problem like I don't see anyone anyone who's

like oh I can't wait to be a single parent household like no one's like striving to not have I agree with loving where is this problem can you give me example of that well I do think that there are fix women that's the real issue I do think it's a fact that policy we need some polic we need some policy about that is a fact that many women make more money from being married Uncle Sam than being married to a husband right so I think that that's not a good incentive structure to set up in

the first place and I don't blame the people who are receiving those you know they were talking about the Great Society the way welfare has been administered I think there are actually just Financial disincentives I mean for family formation that's not a problem government that's more a problem where corporations not paying people enough well that's a separate debate that we could have but I think that you know that's how do you get corporations to pay people more is you actually have a comp I believe a competitive market economy that allows people to get jobs in

a growing economy that's a separate discussion about Economic Policy but even if you're going to have programs of government Aid which most of them I'm skeptical of but if you're going to have it do it in a way that doesn't create a disincentive to pay somebody more in the exact same situation where single mother without a man in the house single mother married man in the house this one gets more money than this one I don't think that that's a good incentive structure to create but I'm not going to promise you that the solution is

all going to come through policy and the family side I think through education policy can deliver the solution education is that'll get us 50% of the way there alone in terms of make giving people access to the best possible education they can at a young age then you get to the hard stuff I I do think that restoring the nuclear family Norm is a hard I grew up in a really poor neighborhood I'm sure there's people that try to take advantage of the system but the majority of people weren't like happy to be on welfare

like it was a necessity sure so I like you say that like uh they'll get paid more not being in a relationship like no one's striving for that agree with that and it's like I think the least you can do is Market it that way I feel it's a little bit let me ask you question let me ask you actually actually be um I'm super interested in this I don't have all of the answers of what the government is supposed to do to recreate family formation I think some of this is not going to come

from the government the government should do the best we can what would be your what would be your perspective on how we could actually enhance more stable family formation in the country given your own you know background that you share your perspective I think money is the thing that fixes a lot and if corporations are paying people more now people can have two family households and make more than if the government was helping them out I would love I would love people to be able to earn more as well which requires a vibrant economy rather

than a shrinking economy over the course of yeah but if we're paying people $15 on 40 hours a week that's no money no one can live off that I mean it's not even 15 to be to his point so when he first said corporations I was thinking corporate jobs but minimum W 725 still so manyl has gone insane and like are I don't mean to pull it all back to my favorite topic and I don't mean to pull it back to my favorite topic but I pull it back because I think it relates to it

of the bureaucracy and the regulatory State the reason people can't afford a house is in part because we have a crisis of not enough housing Construction in the country why because there's too much red tape to be able to build a single family home so building large because people aren't making enough money to afford housing I mean housing costs are also housing cost have shot out you're going to see it happen in California right now you're see it happen across the country no but specifically when they start to rebuild there's a lot of people out

there who like they bought their homes already built and they've never went through the the red tape and bureaucracy of like building a home out there and then these people are going to see what it's like and you're going to see a Monumental change happen in California even Builders right there's a lot of zoning regulations for example at a local level and a state level that say you can't build a new house in this area if it's too small if it's a single family home that restricts the supply of new housing when you have less

Supply prices go up and that's a big part of why people aren't able to afford housing which I think is a major problem amongst Republicans and Dem let it Beyond housing to his point I hate to not side with the Indian but uh a box of cereal in New York legitimately is $10 if minimum wage is $15 an hour and food is that expensive even if I'm renting and I don't want to buy a house and I don't care about that I'm still struggling and if it's $15 an hour in New York even if things

are more expensive $725 in Texas a box of Cal is $5 I got a family for a feed I'm working 40 hours a week on minimum wage what am I going to do it's like the I and I support a lot of what you're saying but there is a problem that might require more regulation which is we inflation continues to go crazy CEO salaries continue to go crazy they outpace inflation minimum wage has been stagnant for 20 I mean largely stagnant since I was a kid so here is my view I think that the best

way the reason I want to dismantle the regulatory state is not because that is a more important objective than helping the American worker it is because I believe it is the way to Best Aid the American worker and right now a shrinking economy or an economy that isn't growing at the pace that we historically have that brings everybody down it shrinks the size of the pie I think companies we want companies to independently make the choice to hire the best and brightest in the United States and pay them at a rate that allows people to

flourish and live a great life we can all agree that hasn't been the case in the last 20 years correct at least in the post 2000 period that has not been the case in this country I think most of that is a function of actually bad government policy by the actual regulatory State and bureaucracy you think about the Federal Reserve I mean the Federal Reserve has tightened monetary this a little technical but it tightens monetary policy every time wages go up this is actually one of the best kept secrets of how Federal Reserve policy has

hurt workers in this country they say that was a leading indicator of inflation of yeah it's a leading indicator of wages are going up so wages going up already was programmed into the mind of this bureaucracy that that's all equal a bad thing well here's what we've learned is that actually people start making more money they're like all right we got too much money right let's restrict the flow of money it's even worse than that it's even worse than that because as you will probably appreciate the last thing to go up in the business cycle

when the economy is hot the very last thing to go up is Wages yeah so what we actually discovered in retrospect is they thought that was a leading indicator of inflation oh gosh we got to raise interest rates and tighten monetary policy they actually got it wrong yeah it was the tail end of the business cycle when wages were growing up which means they tightened monetary policy right into a natural downturn of the business cycle which is how you got the weight crisis which by the way people are age a big source of inequality was

still the aftermath of that Great Recession after the 08 financial crisis yeah imagine we had done I don't think that's how you got the 08 crisis I don't think that is no no no but it worsened it it exacerbated it it exacerbated it and it caused it to last poor people wanted more no no it was it was actually the Federal Reserve tightening Monet anyway it lasted a lot longer even in the aftermath of it but my point is imagine you didn't have any of that regulatory State all in you fast forward 20 years later

would we have been better off if none of the bureaucracy had even tried to do it and by the way just take the money that was spent by that bureaucracy and put in the pockets of people yeah yes we would actually so how how come that bureaucracy is not affecting CEO's pay cuz theis has been going up so I think there is well I think that I think the reality is the bureaucracy is what determines that pay right I think a lot of now I believe in the market actually working but this gets into a

separate Market structure so normally shareholders you're asking the question I'll give the answer because this is actually a topic that was near and dear to my heart I started a company that was on this very issue shareholders are the supposed bosses of a corporation and public companies it turns out that most public companies have their stock held by a really concentrated small number of firms Black Rock State Street Vanguard among them they're the ones who are actually voting for CEO pay not the actual shareholders themselves so historically the way the market economy is supposed to

work is the shareholders hold the firm accountable instead you have a lot of these concentrated Financial actors that are voting their shares on behalf of the everyday American or the pension fund holder in a way that has resulted I do think in some level of inefficiency so wherever you look in our country the rise of this managerial class right wherever you see the rise of bureaucracy the American citizen tends to lose in the end the everyday citizen tends to lose in the end and so my general form of solution is as a first step take

a jackhammer to the bureaucracy take the savings and put them in the pockets of everyday Citi are going to on that you said Black Rock what did you say State Street Vanguard all these companies that's where a lot of this ESG stuff by the way came from too she is like these environmental and social constraints on these firms came from the same firms that in many ways were using that as when vot the way they should be for for ex okay so just real quick so we can understand it's not their Capital right it's not

their assets people are putting their money into these comp compies they invest it but what's happening is they're using the leverage of all that Capital to push policy onto these companies and then the shareholders are actually not seeing the capital owners you can call them the capital own because right now they call black rock and Vanguard the shareholders that's the shareholders and air quotes the actual Capital owner are not what they want reflect and a matter of fact sometimes those policies negatively impact their returns I believe that's the case I believe that's I strongly believe

that's the cas I wrote a couple books about it I also started a competitor black rock called strive this a few years ago so I care about trying to solve these problems at best I can through the market but one of the reasons I enter politics is there's only so much you can do through the market when the root cause of why these firms are structured this way is actually traces back to the regulatory environment that creates the incentives for that type of consolidation in the first place guys listen you know an exciting weekend I

think that we need to have a little bit of a discussion about Akosh and and his picks and uh before we get to the pcks can I just say how right I was about not being a Cowboy fan okay tell me oh first of all everybody you're welcome because I last year said I'm done with the Cowboys it's never going to change you guys pretended you were sports fans you insulted me people online insulted me I took a lot of hatred they hired this guy to be their head coach this guy maybe he'll be a

good coach he has no qualifications his name is Brian Schottenheimer he's been a coordinator for about 15 20 years he's gotten one head coach interview his whole life but because the Cowboys are cheap and they don't want to pay money for a head coach even though there's no salary Capt they had this guy who's a shitty offensive coordinator for them and they're like let's just promote him he's the head coach now we can boss him around we'll save a lot of money everything is going to be good and I saw so many Cowboy fans saying

you know what I'm done with this team I've given up hope it's never going to happen and suddenly their reception hey man I get it you're right you have the right to go support another team I want you to know I took those arrows for you took those arrows for did those other Cowboy fans say they want to kill Jerry Jones you're welcome not yet give it the season give it a season and I he doesn't have to die but just you know there's a couple me too cases out there I'm sure oh my god

do you guys care about women do you guys care about women I pretend I do for the sake of football so there's that I care about two women really to be honest with you I care about Wan God Dam I respect M say what you have a mom bro hey she made her bed bro sometimes I forgive you though I forgive you though you I forgive you though I forgive you though you know what I mean you can't get me too me toing her I just felt so Vindicated this okay fair enough play what about

your other pcks like I never remember I don't know any of the words I don't know any of the words you're saying when you talk about would win I I said I'm going to go with the bills over the Chiefs I didn't feel good about it I was wrong betting as Patrick Mahomes I guess is just insane you're almost right though it was close good man it was a good game I mean they should what's if they should have grabbed that pass k i one he's a good tight end too he's a he he got

great hands yeah ball I mean Josh Allen did great to avoid that sack by that Blitz was what a ballsy call too at that point of the game yeah see well I was I was thinking and I'm aggressive but it was fourth and five they're at like their own 40 or whatever I was like why wouldn't you punt this and then somebody brought up a good point he said because you're giving it to Patrick Mahomes yeah you give it to Patrick you don't get the ball back so you have to go for the win you

can't give it to him so I said okay you got to go for it great play by Josh Allen just to throw it up in the air and not get sack a great great throw unbelievable yeah and I truly I mean Philadelphia's really good but I thought Buffalo was the best team but I think Patrick Mahomes is just different and I know people say the Chiefs get calls and blah blah blah they do I don't know that's also kind of how every great athlete does though right Kobe got calls LeBron got calls Jordan got calls

uh Tom Brady got calls in football like this is just what it is it's also easier to make calls for the most dominant team yeah I I think you just give them the benefit of the doubt and they they're just more glaring when you constantly are winning you see all the calls that benefit the team like when the bum ass Underdog team gets a call you're not going oh this is so almost feel like better about a great point and the more you're winning the more games you play the more calls that could go your

way yeah yeah so uh it is an eagles Chief Super Bowl I think the Eagles are really good I hate them uh my wife and I got in a fight because I just refus to be happy for her because she's from Philly and she was just like why can't you be happy for me and I was like they're just terrible people and you're one of them and that's just what it is these are good fights I apologize later I didn't mean the apology but I did Apologize uh I lied uh but they're really good I

would hate to see them win the Super Bowl I think it's very possible I think I'm going to pick the Chiefs but I'm wrong a lot so let's hope I'm actually right is that your team isn't the chief your team a die hard cheese fan I didn't I found myself rooting for the bills because I would like to see Buffalo get a Super Bowl you just like torture you like you're a masochist list the Chiefs if they win I'm going to be thrilled and I will probably buy a Patrick Mahomes Jersey because he's beaten there's

only two teams left that I truly hate I love that you're like I'm sick of my team not winning anymore you know who I'm going to root for the Buffalo Bills yeah I don't understand no all I have left is what do they call it sh shod and fraud or whatever other people's misery that I don't like that's two teams that I hate left the Niners and the Eagles if Patrick Mahomes beats both of them in the Super Bowl twice I'm buying a jersey I I I'll pay for his Disney World trip I don't care

whatever you need I I will worship this man I will love this man forever okay so you're going Chiefs yeah I yeah I think I'm going Chiefs and I'm really rooting for them and I might have to watch the game in Philly cuz my wife is going to be there and if I got to be around on those that whole city just of of idiots when they win a Super Bowl I mean it's just going to be unbelievable you are crazy it's just going to be unbelievable I mean if they lose though what a what

a sight that would be you know what I mean just a bunch of you you have shows in Philly you f in Philly you know you oh is oh I'm sorry is that crazy for a comic to antagonize Philly who would do such a thing who would do it's probably how he got into Arenas because everybody's like oh this guy hates Philly so do we let's buy tickets to a show wait are you going to watch it in Philly I'm sure she's going to want to watch it in Philly and if I wanted to watch

a Super Bowl in Dallas I'd make her go that's never going to happen but you know all right so you know that's going to be a nightmare so please just beat the out of them don't make it close like you always do beat the dog out of them I would love that Patrick Mahomes please you're going to Riot either way I already know Riot yeah I'm not capable of breaking anything in two week I mean no my Asma is going to start flaring up it's too much it's too much guys if you're going to battle

Super Bowl you're going to do it with Stak Stak is the leader in glob betting and US social casinos bet on top sports and political events and use the promo flagrant for your welcome bonus now let's get back to the show General summary of my worldview is bureaucracy is bad all else equal do you think and it harms the very people it's supposed to help do you think you're radical in the sense that America's radical sure I mean America is a radical idea your of course of course what I'm saying is like do you think

that your viewpoint on what needs to be changed is significantly greater more radical more extreme I know these words have are like loaded and I don't mean them to be loaded what I'm trying to say is like I think that what you're suggesting is a massive change yeah and do you feel it is yeah I do I think a massive change is required yeah to set our country back on the right track to remain I think we already are but to remain the greatest country known to the history of man I do believe that and

and I think that the American Revolution was pretty Radical by the way too like America's birth was Radical right the idea that we the people get to self-govern that was a crazy idea right the idea that your genetics and your lineage don't matter but the best person ought to get the job that is a radical idea or that any opinion yeah no matter how heinous to you or me it might seem that any opinion gets to be expressed publicly freely that is a radical idea I believe all of those things so you know that might

make me radical I think I'm fine with that because America is a radical Nation the course I'm not saying it as criticism I just often times I see your philosophy and I think it's I think it's very digestible in the things you're saying and that you're using language that we're familiar with right and tapping into our identities and what we are as Americans but the change that you're suggesting I think significantly shifts the course of the country and that is you said this last time you pod like we we what is it we should have

the country we deserve or something like that this was Thomas Jefferson's idea it's like for better government we elect is the government we deserve exactly for better for worse right and I I think that's a very brave position to be in I think a lot of times when elected officials win they're forced to make certain decisions and they reflect and they go you know what they really ain't that bad like maybe we'll try to move it 2% this Direction 5% this direction 7% and so this is why man this is actually really important to me

as I think about my next step I don't just we talk about this a little bit before I don't just want to win by a little bit and you know check the box being a governor or whatever I want to win by such a decisive mandate to be able to actually do the hard things right if you want to be an incremental changer in politics you can do that by temporarily sitting in a seat with an narrow margin and then it's pingpong when somebody else is in charge of the different View kind of goes incrementally

in the other direction but if you want to revitalize an actual state or a country you need a decisive mandate to do it and how do you get that well you have to tap into cultural necessity these people have to feel that you can deliver the change that they desperately need like what's happened I think not throughout entire American history but when America is doing well yeah when poor people can feed themselves and pay their rent there's enough magic in distraction in this country where they don't need to Rebel right and that's kind of like

the perfect spot for the really wealthy where they're like okay we can get really W rich and the poor people aren't going to walk reolution exactly right there's no that that's like that's perfect right and then every once in a while you can see the desperation of the poor because the Luigi mangion Walks Behind the healthcare CEO blows his head off and then the internet is like hey it be like that sometimes MH and to me the reaction was indicative of yeah people being desper a lot of deep seed of frustration yes so how do

you tap into that desperation and I'm going to use this word sell Loosely and then and then sell them a solution to that desperation that I think this is kind of what happened we can get into like what happened with with Trump but I think a lot of people couch their support in Trump with um these uh like their uh how do I how I phrase it like they they try to be Noble in their support right especially on the coasts you I want to I want to stop Foreign Wars you know I I really

care about the migration issue they don't right they their their kid comes home from school and they're like why am I I'm a girl but I think I'm a boy and they're like who the told you that right tired of that and and I think that it's the cultural issue but they feel uncomfortable saying that because of public scrutiny so they go we got to stop these wars and you're like well where are the wars that they're over there but we got to stop that how can you tab into what Americans are feeling even if

it's not what they're saying like when I saw the reaction of Luigi I was like oh Americans are feeling resentment and extreme hostility MH to the Health Care sector sure I think to government sure I think to what else would you say I think I think the I would say towards their manner of work the way that they're actually taught to the idea that you could get ahead through your own hard work feel like they're not feeling possible anymore education through the debt you take on through higher education we've all been part people taught that

you go to college for four years you load up yourself with debt and somehow you get a head start in the American dream when it hasn't worked out that way I think the first way to do is admit the failure so this is the failure this is really good be honest yeah but this is really good admitting the failure is very important and I think to and to to Trump's credit like I I think there's a version of this and I don't know how much of this is marketing or actual truth but like admitting the

failures of your country if there is something that we like the of tonen situation like we should ackn that and we be like hey we did some foul got us into a war a lot of people died that's bad you have every right to have a you know a lack of like a faith and trust in our government we want to reins that in the way we still is accountability we don't Gaslight you and be like you know what you're talking about we go hey I did some goofy yeah that's Elon say you did some

goofy don't go oh you guys are making a big deal and nothing because that's what Democrats said for four years be the exact version totally of the people that you fought back against I think I think that the ability to honestly have the humility to say here's where we screwed up and it's easy to point to the other side screw-ups it's a lot harder to your own it's a lot harder but our own screw-ups but then it's not just not just admitting that failure or the failures where we've gone wrong but I believe the right

path is not to just stop there cuz I think there's a risk there okay the risk that I see there is that we fall into the Trap then of saying have we all been screwed over you know been screwed over yes we have been screwed over yes but if you stop there then it's like you fall back to the Trap exactly of thinking that my fate is somebody else's fault my plight is somebody else's responsibility we took accountability uh or that's what I think maybe they left it a little bit they took all this accountability

which is Honorable hey America was imperfect and we're not perfect we did some horrible and then we stopped at stop and that's not it we up how are we going to make it better and I don't want the American right to stop there either which is to say that there well the American right is the opposite it's we never did anything wrong and and that and that's a problem it has to be that was that was kind of the old there was an older version then there's a newer spin which is no there's other stuff

that we're being screwed over by we our government screwed us over all which is much of which is true right A lot of these system examp about the H1B system is badly broken it sucks it needs to be gutted but but don't stop there we can't your fate and I I'll say this in ways that speak to everybody 360° the number one factor that determines whether you achieve your goals is not your race your religion your gender your sexuality the climate the weather or somebody else from another country what is it Christ is you well

I I'm trying to win you Ohio bro trying my hardest I'm really trying my hardest I believe I believe that God lives in you right and so so those two those two merge so do the priest and in a certain in a certain it's like it's like in basketball like he gives his own alley exactly it's like the dunk contest like Bounce It Off the back take it own go go that's good you don't need the guy Fe it does live in you it does live in and so you know I this is probably even

a really deeper discussion as I do think a Revival of that type of conviction in ourselves some of that involves Revival of faith and I don't think the government should be in charge of doing this at all but I do think a Revival of our self-conscience a Revival of conviction in ourselves as individuals and as a country and even in States like Ohio where people have fallen into the Trap of believing you know we're number 38 where people move in and out restoring that Pride as an American as an ohioan as a citizen as a

member of a Family Revival of conviction in self that's what Donald Trump I think is doing at the level of the nation I mean people will could debate about Greenland or anything else but the idea of manifest destiny the idea that we're the pioneers and the explorers that gives us back some of that self-confidence that juice of conviction yeah that's the second step we got to take is once acknowledge that there are a lot of factors that have contributed that were not your own individual level mistakes yeah but if we just pause there you're taught

to see yourself as a victim but to say that no we're committed to actually overcoming those barriers at a young age so every four-year-old when he chooses a preschool or his parents choose a preschool for him is choosing the best possible one and if you can't afford it you have the money from shutting down the bureaucracy that you save the money to put it in the pockets of those parents to choose so but after that your fate is in your hands and we believe in you because you believe in you that's where we need to

get back so real quick I think this is is really good because a lot of times we get into this like black and white dichotomy like these guys are the bad guys these guys are the good guys we never listen to each other but there is a version where if who you know if you're more I don't even want to use the term Centrist but there's a version where you go hey I think it's honorable I think it's Noble to recognize our failures I also think that what we're doing over here which is you know

shining a light on our successes and what we can do to improve the country and it doesn't matter which side it's the combination of both of those it's acknowledging the failures of the people because the people feel fail right they feel like the government has failed them they feel like these institions have failed they have let's acknowledge that and then going we're not going to stop there and let you just complain and whine about all these institutions we are going to show what's wrong with the institutions and we're going to give suggestions that we think

will make it better and we believe in our heart they'll make it better and we are going to try to make them better I like that because should we expect more of our politicians in our government of course we should but we should also expect more of ourselves than each other and give that goes in all Direction give them something to hope for exactly and and and and the way we expect more of our government is the government I believe has actually been in the way of your success it has been a chief obstacle whether

it's a small business with the respect to the regulatory State whether it is overspending on some parts of Education without actually allowing you to choose where you go housing burdens for new construction that raise new costs the government has been a burden yeah you deserve as a citizen of this country to have that government out of your ways so you can achieve the maximum of your own potential but after that the rest falls on us and that is a beautiful thing cuz this is the country that does not constrain you based on your lineage or

your genetics to achieve that both of those have to be true because if you just do the first without the second you're back to victimhood culture if you just do the second without the first not true yeah exactly you're making people feel like their failures are completely on it's got to be both it's got to be both and I think that strategy as you describe it right now it's grabed in truth it's not a Strate it's true sure I think it's really relatable and to me like obviously I'm in maybe a different situation right but

I think to somebody who is suffering who feels like these institutions are not backing them in the way that they need will then feel one validated in their feeling their frustration but also feel like they have some hope cuz I don't want you to be like hey you're poor cuz it's their fault but good luck being poor I want I want people be like Hey listen upward Mobility is difficult for you and there are these institutions that have restricted that the government being one of them but we want to fix these things so you can

have upper mobility and if I'm somebody who needs that I'm going to go well yeah let's try something cuz this one idea I'm a fan of in this spirit this cuz I was going to bring this up earlier gay marriage perfect time has nothing to do with this good okay making sure man almost there one day we we're going to show our wives what a successful marriage we've been together for 11 years okay go go go did you we sign the contract good you know how I know I'm the wife cuz it's like 16 years

you don't know nothing and he's wearing the ring no so that's actually a fun experiment like this is two guys that are married to women divorcing their wives making their wives marry each other and then we marry each other oh yeah yeah we'd be great and see who lasts longer we'd be great would be great they' be divorced in two years I think it would be we'd be gaying in Palm Springs at 90 years old I think it would do well on Netflix blind we need I love that go right we figured that out so

I get I mean I get the nobody can take that idea right you can't do that so the will make it gay go go now you're really killing me in Ohio sorry California yeah knock out new we got we got we got you know that's that's too easy we'll leave that for somebody out okay so but an idea earlier a serious note to this message of economic empowerment I haven't talked about this before but it's an idea that I'm a big fan of if you think about in a given in a given kid's account when

they're born I'm not against the universal basic income stuff because it deters work but take the spirit of that in a different in a different direction the savings of shutting down a lot of the bureaucracy you could take a tiny fraction of that and every kid who's born have $110,000 in Ed fully in the stock market they can't touch it till they're 18 you want to know what the biggest source of income inequality is we can gripe about CEOs or whatever it's actually compound interest it's compound interest and not compound interest in bonds or in

the bank account compound interest in the stock market so yeah so you're talking about kids graduating with enough money to not only pay for all of college but have enough to start their small business but I got to stop you for one second just so people can understand this very this the kind of thing we should be talking about when you say invest in the stock market you're talking about no it's not it's not welfare to me in fact and let me just make the case to people who disagree I just want people to understand

the concept before you move on so when you say invest in the stock market I think a lot of people immediately go and I was talking to the guy who who started acorns I don't know if you know that account this is not like a plug for him but essentially this is his idea it's like we've kind of tricked people into thinking that investing Isis is is no no no we we investing is putting money in and having compound interest work for you over a long period of time long time what we what we a

diversified basket yes so when you invest in the stock market you're not investing in one company and I think that's what a lot of people think they go I should have put money in Nvidia no that's guessing that's G Market yes when you invest in the full market for example the Vanguard account that you were just talking about I I'm just using it as a placeholder right you're investing across the market you put that 10 grand in and then that 10 grand is compound interest over 20 years you have X amount of million dollars yes

I don't think people really realize what that concept is of compound interest and it takes a lot of discipline right because when that 10 grand turns into 50 and then something happens to your home you're like H let me take that 50 out and let me put it into the home so I don't want to restrict people but I do want them to understand the power of that I my my parents were financially illiterate they didn't know what the that was so the difference in inequality at the at the highest levels is explained by people

who are invested broadly in the stock marketus people who are not over long periods of time it's the long period of time that is concept and the way the math works on the compound interest is like if if you what is 10 grand over 10 year or 20 years you know I mean depends on you know if you're talking about a 20% you know rate of return you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars time pull the spreadsheet we'll do we'll do the math S&P is more than that you're talking about compound stock market returns

over long periods of time you're talking about double digit returns and that multiplies itself so a dollar first becomes A110 but it's net A110 cents times A110 C and so you're actually multiplying that whole effect they say it doubles every your money doubles every 5 to seven years so 10K when you're five is 20K when your 10 is 40k when your 15 is 80k when your 20 is 160k all right guys we're going to take a break again so we can tell you about cook Unity you know about cook Unity this is the meal delivery

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weeks see how you like it all you got to do is sign up at Cook unity.com flagrant now let's get back to the show all right I have a question for you this one is near and dear to my heart but um so my pops has a dementia okay um I know I've seen a bunch of articles about you obviously when I was looking you up even last time and it seems like there's some criticism and I don't know if this people trying to make you more radioactive I don't know what exactly it is about

how you made maybe your big first chunk of money I don't even know how much money you made I know what you're talking about okay I and and this this pisses me the hell off because I know how cynical the intentions are of just deceiving and straight of lying to people about it and at some point but about what I'll I'll lay out I'll lay so so like there's this false allegation that somehow there was an Alzheimer's trial that I made a bunch of money off of that failed it's but here's but here's actually the

reality so I think it's it's actually more important than that it's um there's a lot in my own business background that informs my world viiew and what we're trying to do for the country so I started a biotech company it was my first company major company that I started back in 2014 okay I've been an investor I worked at a hedge fund in New York and it turned out Pharma companies are among the more inefficient companies when it comes to allocating their money to developing drugs a bunch of Pharma companies tend to get out of

a therapeutic area at the exact same time so when they throw in their towel they all kind of Follow The Fad and go in a New Direction and there's a lot of reasons why but they all kind of throw the towel in the same areas at the same time that go from being in favor to out of favor so my premise was to start a biotech company that took a lot of the projects that they had discarded after spending a lot of money on them find the ones that they discarded not necess necessarily because they

were bad drugs oh because it wasn't a trend yeah because it was a trend and they had Capital allocation issues that they had to allocate in a New Direction and see if you could make one of those drugs work exactly and so some of these areas were Women's Health in urology Alzheimer's was one of these areas for sure where 99.7% of drugs ever tested for Alzheimer's disease had failed a bunch of these companies are just like throwing the towel so I set up a company called Roy vent and the whole model was a you give

skin in the game to the scientists who actually develop these drugs they don't get that at Big Pharma and focus on the areas where Pharma had abandoned them a subset of these are going to work not all of them are going to work biotech is a game of it's a numbers game but enough for going to work to be able to create a successful company and I was convinced of that based on what I had seen so I started the company we developed a number of drugs in these subsidiaries so each of those units one

was focused on Alzheimer's one was focused on women's health one was focused on Dermatology and so forth and the way I made my money was that five of those drugs that we developed through phase three in successful phase three studies went on to become FDA approved and the one I'm probably most proud of is a drug actually for the smallest of those markets but there is a disease where 20 kids a year are born with this genetic condition where 100% of those kids die by the age of three if they're untreated and because of the

therapy that we LED all the way to get through approval in phase three is kids about 70% of those kids live lives of normal duration another for endometriosis for uterine fibroids women's health conditions that were generally ignored by Pharma so those were the areas that we had success five out of how many you think there there's many more that are still in development but there were there were um probably 20 drugs that we've put into development 20 plus many of which are still in the development process but five of them ended up going through phase

three successful sold those rights to other Pharma companies generated billions of dollars in value for shareholders and the company I found in rent is like A8 N1 billion do publicly traded company on the NASDAQ today that's returned billions of dollars to shareholders and I'm proud of that and it was a very cool company that bucked the trend of Pharma and a lot of people in big Pharma didn't like it because it in some ways made traditional big Pharma look bad because it called The Bluff on a lot of these areas they were ignoring and that's

how the company succeeded oh so you think there's like a smear campaign you know I think I think I think well I think initially a lot of pharmas did not like Ren's existence that's definitely true but when I entered the realm of politics which is the realm of of smear campaigns there was definitely a concerted effort to exploit one of the drugs that failed that's the Alzheimer's Dr that's the Alzheimer's drug right so we had a subsidiary called axan it was developing a drug for Alzheimer's disease so royan is is a parent company subsidiary is

it's got It's got a bunch of subsidiaries my event is one took it public ended up being sold for a big premium immune event took it public trades at a big premium to where it went public year event a bunch of them was acquired for big premium axent was one of those companies was a subsidiary of Roy that developed this drug for Alzheimer's disease and the shares traded on the stock exchange whole n yards that drug eventually failed and so the stock price was high and then it went down and it was low and the

false smear campaign against me is somehow I made money off of selling shares of AC event it's false so you didn't make any money 100% false neither so neither Roan the parent company nor I sold a single share though we could have it would have been perfectly legitimate many biotech CEOs or many biotech companies do that to diversify it turns out that I just didn't do that because I felt like we wanted to actually see it through and take the same risk that the investors actually took in aent no good deed goes unpunished in the

public in the realm of political smearing not a single share did we sell and rode that big loss all the way down in a way that actually was tough like it was actually a tough early failure to go through and the way the company eventually succeeded was through these other successes and the thing I learned is that once you enter the realm of politics people do not give a crap about what the actual truth is they have their agenda and they're going to use it to smear you and I think one of the things I've

learned from watching Donald Trump frankly is that when people are that false and that malicious against you at some point you got actually take action I mean what he did with ABC settled the defamation suit at a certain point you can't just roll over with this BS my initial approach was like this is so garbage I'm just going to ignore this stuff but at a certain point when it's that malicious yeah I I think the perspective just roll over and take it or at least the like articles I've written on it is uh and I

guess that this there are people that are speculating on these drugs right so you can develop a drug and when it's in between phase two or phase three or phase four whatever it is you can speculate meaning you can invest in the company that's exactly right and then a lot of times these companies will spike in between phase two and three right but it has to go through phase four in order to actually to go through phase three to be approved whatever whatever it is so in order to make money they're inspired by greed they

don't really want to help Alzheimer's they're like oh I think this is a profitable Endeavor not everybody but I imagine stock Traders the stock Trad it doesn't matter they're just looking at letters oh this looks like it's got a chance they try to get in early because if it does pass phase three if they're getting in Phase One or phase two and it passes phase three they're going to get a 20x 100x they take that risk fail and and one big success exactly but the idea I think was is that you made money and then

sold shares after it looked promising that was that's the false allegation right and they even said you put your mom in to like get it approved or something oh my God the level of garbage about this yeah so my mom was a geriatric psychiatrist who was in retirement treated patients with Alzheimer's disease her whole entire career and had experience in the drug development space as well and she was one of I'm going stting the business from scratch I'm going to find the smartest people I can yeah she kindly came out of retirement she didn't sell

a single share or or make money off that failure either but the thing that people make she wasn't a key employee at the company but she was but the narrative is beautiful it fails over here you bring your mom in go hey make sure it passes it passes you guys make billion and it actually it actually the trial failed well the trial it failed at three didn't passed it two we en licensed it after phase two from from GS never even did it's just like the level of garbage on this is is kind of kind

of eye openening actually yeah people have you know if they have an objective they could care less about what the actual truth is yeah but what's the narrative they could sell and and you know what like I said earli I'm not going to be a victim about it you can stand up and actually explain it to people people actually understand the truth the truth is like a lion you can't hold it back it's going to be held back for so long well I'm glad you explain it to me because I had a perspect but this

is not just politics this is everything I think when there's successful people that potentially could be EMP powerful positions maybe they not even powerful you're going to create these narratives and if the narrative feels good and justifies that those people's pain or their bitterness then they're going to run with it I mean you see this all the time now it's one of the things I kind of am Keen to do more frankly I was always uncomfortable sort of talking about my own successes in detail but one of the things I've realized is a it can

actually give a lot of people inspiration and B for people to actually get to know you I think actually one of the things I would have done differently again in my presidential campaign is actually talk more about my business background and the tough decisions we had to make at every step like that Alzheimer's failure that was that was tough it's probably the toughest career experience I've been through because it was still relatively early in the life of the company the other projects were still well on their way it actually strengthened in some ways the resolve

of the people who worked for the company to say you know what we did the right thing we did it right at every step of the way Roan the parent company could have sold those shares when it was flying high didn't sell a single share cuz we were with there with our conviction even though that would have been the normal thing to do we didn't do it right but to say that that's how we're actually going to carry out each these projects and then the rest succeeded those successes were actually far more meaningful in light

of actually having gone through a The Narrative is that's how you made all your money in in reality that's how you lost all your money ex that's how I lost a ton on paper a long the time all the way back like if you're going to get blamed for it anyway you know what like that was that was that was like what a lot of my friends were close we said you might as well have just done it because it's not that would have been perfectly legal and acceptable it might not have been what I

felt like was the right thing to do this this happens insane is that having not done it this will be the case and that's what most normal biotech CEOs could do diversify a little bit or whatever and so the thing they they they pick on is rent which is the parent company and just for for completeness rent the parent company was developing a bunch of these drugs we did a financing at rent the parent where there was so much demand in one of our financings there was $500 million financing but more investors wanted to put

in money the only way we were able to accommodate that Capital was the investors in royant selling a certain number of shares in rent I was to the order of about 30 million bucks at that point in time those shares that I sold then are worth way more today than they were back then so I actually lost you know I actually lost Financial value by doing it but that's the hook of a totally different company that you sold shares in that people will say he made money off of an Alzheimer's failure which is I it's

just it's an eye- openening lesson to how dirty American politics works yeah but it's also a lesson for me to say you know what I think you got to actually people don't just want to know about your policies yeah I think they want to understand the struggles you've been through and and I've sometimes been personally natural in talking about we don't vote for the policy we vote for the person and policy secondarily and a lot of those a lot of those experiences help shape me to who I am to believe that you're going to go

through hardship from time to time you get through that by actually you know mostly coming out stronger on the other side of it if you can I think addressing like I think addressing like blatant lies I think is important it's something that we go through all the time because you know people make these things up that are just like so absurd you're like there's nobody stupid enough to actually believe this but then you see narratives take on totally and then you're like that was my wish it's just like okay this is so this is so

garbage then and then they start making up other stuff well the only drug he got approved was a trans drug oh no I haven't seen it's just like okay I don't know what the what the what the hell that's about what's the trans drug there's no trans drug I I just like that is a we should invent that though good idea Dr that makes but it's like it's at a level of insanity I think they there's one drug that was approved for prostate cancer endometriosis and uine fibroids and works on hor certain hormones in the

body somebody should be sued for malpractice if they're giving a drug that so only approved for that for some other thing and I have no it would be ridiculous to think that it was yeah but people say stuff and then and then I know from the inbounds that I get to say oh we're going to ask you these inquiries it's like where are these people getting this stuff but at a certain point you know what you got to actually just actually just stand for what's true I was uh I was putting out my special that

this is the last special I I was going to do a special with the streamer and then you know they didn't want me to say certain things and I was like all right well can I buy it back and then put it out myself and I put it out myself and I sold it myself and then as I'm selling it I I at one point tell people there's like video of this I'm like guys if you can't afford it just steal it it will be on the internet somewhere you can just do that that's totally

fine and then if you can't figure out how to illegally stream it I'll have it up on YouTube in the future this is this is me telling people like if you can't afford it just go take it and if that doesn't work it's going to be up on YouTube and then the special did really well and I guess people spun this narrative that like oh you made us buy it and then a few weeks later you put it on internet and in my mind I'm like every movie that comes out eventually is on TV for

free like every UFC fight I watch is eventually on YouTube I'm like I don't think I'm doing anything different than I and I told the but the narrative is he took our money and then he went with it and I don't and I don't address it because I'm like well there's nobody that could believe this because I literally said verbatim on the podcast like just go take it and then eventually be there but it doesn't matter the if people want to see you totally come down and I'm sure there are people who didn't hear me

say that and then they felt Tri and for those people I feel genuinely bad I'm like now that sucks because you supported me and then maybe you feel like I tried to do something but it's it's one of those things where there are people that they want to see you fail and they will maybe they're not creating narratives but they will believe a narrative that makes you look bad because it validates the way they feel something about human nature and that is a and that is unfortunately something that you have to deal with with success

totally that's the cost of success and it's worth paying the price because I agree and and then the flip side is you can't you know just sit here and the other thing is to how much do you address and how much do you yeah exactly I mean some point you're you're you're validating I mean to me at certain point like to be able to daine to this level and say that okay I'm going to like legitimize this type of smear by engaging with it but on the other hand it sticks and so you got to

you know I think I think the best solution is and I think I'm going to be better about this in the next phase of of you know my political life is also just sharing more about my own personal Journey just as a human being me that's validating for me because like that was something where I thought about you and I was like and it's and it's deeply personal to me because my father I'm like ah did he do some kind of tricky thing was super super deeply personal to me too because I think the the

whole thing was Pharma had decided this is an area that's supposed to be that's supposed to be not touched anymore it's too risky and actually it is deeply personal to my grandmother's sister died of Alzheimer's disease my mom spent years cutting her teeth in the nursing homes in Southwest Ohio where I would actually go to many of those nursing homes play the piano for people who are in nursing homes suffering from Alzheimer's it's like an important area for me which is part of why we took it on yeah and it was a super bruising experience

to then take all of that risk put yourself out there and fail yeah but the idea then that there's like an allegation that there was some kind of financial gain from it is um is just doubly um dust Sal salt on a wound yeah chips away on trust and then people you don't know you know maybe people have won't ask you about it but then they're they're thinking about they're they're thinking about it when when in fact yeah exactly is a doubt in the back of somebody's mind but the we have a free we got

we got the modern economy you can talk to people maybe that's the answer you do it but you said so you've been around Trump and you learned from him and you saw how he fought with ABC who are you fighting against I think it's actually you know I I would have I would have never I would have never contemplated doing just because I want to do productive things and like why are we going to why are we going to you know fight some sort of side battle such but it turns out that if somebody says

something that is false something that is damaging and they should have known was true or had good reason to know was true and was doing it maliciously anyway that there's actually hard law that says they can't do that and so not even for the money of it but for the justice of it I kind of have leaned in the direction that's just the right way to go name name I came to it quite recently and the reason is the reason is people don't bring why did they bring this stuff up during a Republican primary only

and then again they're mad about the comments I made on on X about American excellence and suddenly suddenly that that issue comes back up absolutely you suddenly randomly comes back oh it had nothing to do with the fact that you didn't like what I had to say there was a you know coordinated response to that and so it comes from a malicious place and so at a certain point at a certain point you just can't roll over and take it this will plague you like you'll be in a debate and it'll get brought up again

oh it's not going to Happ no that that ain't going to we're going to make sure that's not going to happen and for you to be like the truth this was settled in a court of law it's done and it's absolutely here's the hard truth here's the facts disputed and if not bear the consequences said who yeah yeah we need names bro we names you know what I a lot of these people I don't even know who these people are I've never heard of these people but the stuff that sticks yeah I think we're going

to pick we're going to make an examp we pick we'll pick a good example we'll pick a good example I like that yeah Soros is it is it Soros I think a lot of this comes not even necessarily from the left really yeah it's some of it does but some of it is um some of it comes from from other unexpected Corners as well really sounds like you got an idea selfed why you're not trolls internet trolls man anyway regardless I'm not a uh I don't believe in whining I believe in winning there we go

let go go winning is the way to go absolutely man all right we're going to take a break for a second all right guys let's take a break for a second this podcast has been brought to you by Squarespace okay if you're looking to build a website you need to look into Squarespace all right they make it easy to create a beautiful website to help you engage with your audience sell anything from products to content to your time and you can do it all on your own terms they have Squarespace payments also it's the easiest

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the risk of the market volatility that is if you wanted to pick there's many sources of American inequality but if you wanted to get to the root of it to pick one thing it's compound interest yeah that's the ball game so actually you have a generation of people who don't participate in that who end up being skeptical of capitalism so in a certain sense what you're doing here is you are cultivating a generation of Americans oh who are not patriotic who win with through capital right when they graduated the age of 18 compound interest through

the success of the stock market in capitalism is no longer a source of bruised salt on a wound of Envy of somebody else's success but the success that allowed you to have a quarter million dollar Nest Egg to be able to get a head start of the American and they believe in America more not it does not take a lot of money I mean in terms of that we're talking about percentage of the federal budget percentage of savings of waste from the federal budget buet invested in this it's tiny it's like it's like infinitesimally small

fraction but then you have a bunch of Lone shark businesses like oh access your money now with this huge interest rate and you turn 18 sign I think you should be able to do that so I think and and here I'm a Libertarian generally libertarian oriented instincts when it comes to adults kids are not the same as adults y so if you put that if you put that in the bank account of a kid at 4 months old or at 1 month old or on the day of his birth it has to be fully invested

in the Diversified stock market over a period of 18 years when he's 18 years old he gets it out I would make it taxfree that down payment on preserving American capitalism I have a lot of ideas like this right it's the kind of idea responsive to your question but real quick real quick it's not just an investment in capital and by this is not even my idea this is IDE other people have had these ideas but what we really need is people in office who are willing to think outside the box to be able to

advance a vision for the good of all Americans embracing capitalis rather than cuz what happens then when the kid graduates at 18 but the other guy had his parents contributing to his Roth IRA 15 grand a year that graduates with that versus not he's going to have hostility towards C of course he's going to be jaded he's going to naturally envious and then you know I'm not saying that there isn't CE overpay because we talked about there structural reasons why there is but then you look at that as the root cause of the problem rather

than the fact that know I actually if I was given the same Economic Opportunity could have started my own business at 22 but I can't pissed at capitalism if you pass law it would be an actual Patriot Act you would be creating people who believe in America Trust they feel patriotic they like oh America gave me 80,000 $150,000 by the time I was 18 capitalism is great I trust the stock market it's not out to get me America is great I believe in this system there's one group called invest America I think have been advocating

for this there have been others have been advocating for it it's not one of the things I've learned as well is that in intelligence is not our problem in the country actually most people in America have common sense what we lack is courage actually I think we just like we like is courage think that was Dam first weum now we a bunch of no education we don't we don't understand what these systems are so how can they work for us we don't I think for politi I'm saying politicians I think the the oh that's good

to clarify you I'm talking about I'm talking about I'm talking about what we lack in the class that I'm in right now of people policy is it's not that they don't know the stuff that I'm telling you but did you see how he interpreted and how I interpret it I interpret immediately as we didn't have the courage to put our money in there and then let it stay well we what I'm talking about is we as politicians lack people in the political class lack the courage to be able to do what's outside the box as

a correct because you want to get elected every four years not you but they want to get reelection I actually think this happens to be a pretty good electoral strategy probably will over the same compounding period of but but but to what you were saying is it it's not only investment in the stock market it's not only investment in capital it is an investment in America you want to see America flourish because when America is flourishing and American businesses are flourishing your money is flourishing you get to watch your money work for you totally and

again I didn't understand this I when I had my daughter my wife and I were sitting you know with our business manager and they started telling us about these different things that we could do we could like put our money in for my daughter's uh college fund now exactly so that's I was referring to people in the RO IRA account that kid is actually graduating with you know some of them and there's so many people that know that and it's and it's tax free growth exactly I don't I'm make that available for for the everyday

American and in fact if you did that for every kid in the country no there's no loss to the country I don't think that the taxpayer burden you don't have to increase taxes and Iota in order to pull this off you would find more than a multiple of this in just government waste excess cutting bureaucracy at the level I want and then you get to 18 years old and you got people saying that you know what this capitalism thing isn't so bad actually and you know somebody else might have more money than me because then

they use that money to start somech company or whatever and I'm happy for that because that still served me as a customer but I'm bought in I've got skin in the game I think that that's far better than I'm not being critical of other people's you know Universal basic income I get the Instinct but that creat that creates disincentives to work this is where it's at cuz there you're you're still in the income category where talking about being an owner right this is true you're Capital owner an asset make it taxfree on the growth and

then by that point when you show up you are a capitalist in the sense that not just a theoretical sense of it I'm a capitalist when I'm 18 years old because the country that I grew up into through its economic success was not a source of my Envy but my participation it's also education by participation and inertia right when you see your money working you go I'd like to continue this I better understand that and I can do the math that tells me that because started getting to a good preschool that taught me how to

do math at a younger age rather than getting to eighth grade or even taught you about how finances work I I went to good schools pretty good like I was never taught this at all totally so I so I think that this is achievable this is not none of what we're talking about here is rocket science what this requires from a political class is it's not that they lack the intelligence or the ideas they lack the courage which is what brings me back to why am I in this game I do think that people who

are willing to lose MH if necessary you'll be willing to lose means that's not your career it's not your livelihood but people who are willing to lose on the power of their ideas can then still stand for their ideas y That's what I think is going to actually career politicians want do that yeah career politicians want and this one re I like Donald Trump by the way he's not a career politician yeah say what you all about his first week which I think was a great first week he didn't use the usual assembly line model

he came in and did a lot of stuff in that first week in a way that you wouldn't see from a career politician where you think about president or a governor whatever it is Executives who lead you want them at this moment in our his country's history in particular to be people who are willing to break things when necessary as long as the mission is the betterment of the whole country in all of us in the success of American I think right now the average person the middle- class person and the people who are impoverished

do not feel included in the success of the economy or the country they feel left out and that might be educationally it might be strictly just their in ability to invest and understanding what it is but that education of those systems how they work and I also think there's a little part of it where it's like if if these funds are incentivizing people to gamble it's not really investing they might be doing it because they're making fees per transaction oh yeah get fees per transaction you're tricking us into put it in the S&P 500 or

whatever index it is at the lowest possible fee don't transact and then just let it sit there but they're not incentivized these H these headed funds are making money per transaction they want us to make or whatever it doesn't but can you explain how that works because I think that's very important I do think that um and I've done this in other scenarios but to the other conversation we were having because that's just kind of the mood I'm in right now um not just today but like in this period right now is I've written extensive

books and articles about how the system is rigged and all that stuff and I could do more of that but I feel like right now what we need is to make sure we don't just as we were talking about earlier stop there cuz then we're just victims I want to just talk about actually what we're going to do to we have the solution what I'm saying is why we're in the place we are now here here's what happens a lot of money managers they'll manage your money but they take the fee if you take the

fee out that reduces the compound interest the fee is almost a negative compounding effect over time too and then you get the monkey to the dart board's analogy where they've done this experiment where you monkeys throwing darts at a board of stocks and often outperform half of these wealth managers that are out there because the wealth manager chares the fee while the monkey doesn't yeah so so in many ways I do think that people are set up to be screwed by the facts they were never given and I think that sunshine and education is a

great is a great toolkit but I do think that there is a role here at a young age where I'm not a government redistributionist guy welfare state guy but here for every kid born in the country this is I'm behind this if every kid born in the country is bought into the stock market and compounds at the Diversified rate over the course of 18 years we're good by the way it up at 10% it becomes $55,000 at 10% which is kind of conservative long so like in 18 years so imagine you got 55,000 when you're

18 I think you make do whatever you I think you can make a case for that number being even $15 or $30,000 kid could could well it could well starting off cons and then you're talking about you're talking about people who are like straight up wealthy when they graduate well off enough still hungry enough to be able to use that and start their own business or invest further on their own account when they're 18 or pay for college and not be Dr debt and then some you pay for we're talking about this model you're going

to pay for college and then some and for people college is not right solu everybody by that point you have a set you might be a to start your own small bu in a trade or whatever it is every person is able to do the thing that we want In America which is to realize your own god-given gifts you're not the same god-given gifts by the way we all have different god-given gifts that's true diversity but the country that we know in love is the country that recognizes that difference stop trying to pretend that we

all have the same skills and everything cuz we don't and that's a beautiful thing actually it's not a bad thing it's a beautiful thing but to say that we are the country where no matter what those unique god-given gifts are you get to achieve the maximum of that potential Without Really any man-made obstacle standing in your way yeah these are the kinds of solutions starting with Early Education early economic empowerment the family one I will grant you I didn't give you a fully satisfactory solution because there's no government ordained solution there but basic issues that

I believe we can actually tackle right and I don't think that our political class has taken a great interest in addressing over the course of the last they're not incentivized to do it either no and a lot of it's not the federal level and I don't mean to be you know pitching my own book here about what I'm doing next but I do think the action is a lot of the action there is at the level of the states I would love to see you do this I would love to see you do this in

Ohio and I would love to see it this is why I think the Ohio thing is actually a really good example for you because taking the Reigns of the United States of America before this is proven on any sort of like Statewide Citywide I think it's very terrifying for people especially it exists in this bureaucratic system but proving it in a place back to where we started right this is why I was well people should care about my view is but prove it there and then all a sudden everybody else I just want to pick

up on that for a second because right now you guys are we're all you know Millennial or whatever but um gen Z yeah the uh phrase that's so Ohio is like a butt of a joke yeah it's a meme it's a meme and I think that's sad actually I I want I want the next time that we send a mission to the moon or to Mars that is successful like that's so Ohio that's what I want us to what is an example they use now like I want something super lame like something super lame and

boring they like Ah that's so Ohio like that's like a online online gen Z meme type expression I want I want to actually when when we do excellent boundary breaking things as a country I want to go back to saying that's so Ohio for that because by the way in the 1950s people don't realize this five of the top 15 cities that were the wealthiest cities in the country five of the top 15 were in Ohio Toledo was the glass Capital akan was the rubber Capital Youngstown and Cleveland were the steel capital of world from

Ohio you have some roots in Ohio North in Cleveland in Cleveland area John Glenn Neil Armstrong I mean this was Cincinnati was the consumer products Capital Dayton was the compute power capital for much of the Industrial Revolution that wasn't that long ago that was in the 1950s and I think that there's a there's a risk to saying that okay we want to go back to that well the reality is we're probably not going to be the rubber capital or the glass Capital again yeah but it could be the AI data Capital could be the capital

of Biotech could be the capital of Aerospace and ex and space exploration could be the capital of semiconductor production defense industrial base in the country of producing the bleeding edge of technology that Silicon Valley might have in bits what we can create in atoms nuclear energy Fusion where the United States has an opportunity to lead there's no reason that the heartland of the country that was a Pioneer state that was a frontier state that was the heart of the Industrial Revolution that that has to somehow be relegated to yesterday I think there is an opportunity

to say from the center of the country you show what was possible in Silicon Valley for the last 20 years just be careful for 20 be careful running on that because you're talking about all these uh institutions that aren't existing in Ohio so to people who are living there it's like oh he's going to bring a bunch of stuff that I'm not involved in so he's must be bringing workers and people who don't live we want to do it from we want to leverage I'm just saying care and why why why do I favor Ohio

doing it's not random it's the country it's the state in the country that still has access to some of the best waterways 60% of the population of North America is literally within a one-day Drive of Ohio access to the same Talent base that I think we've always had which is a great talent base I think there's all there's a big concern about AI taking jobs I think we could actually use AI to make jobs instead of take jobs everyone's focused on the algorithm and the computing power which by the the Deep seek thing was was

itself a a calling a bluff on but what we haven't focused enough on is training people on how to use AI yeah actually in different domains training human beings on how to use AI we're not doing enough we're training the AI but we're not training humans on how to use AI I think Ohio could be the leading state in the country if you have the kind of Governor the kind of leadership who makes that a priority and then you show the rest of the country what's actually possible are you going to take donations from major

corporations when you run you know I I did not uh well first of all corporations there's a whole complic I got to I got to familiarize myself with the whole campaign Finance landscape so you know how we do this but I'm definitely not going to be bought and paid for I mean since I've lived the American dream don't they all say that well I think a lot of people I don't blame a lot of people who who can't do it differently right so I'm not going to blame somebody who's in a different position our family

has been blessed to live the American dream and I'm happy to talk about my business background a little bit what's that net worth just tell him just put him in I'm like in this poor Place yeah but I'm like a poultry billionaire right does many people have billions put him in his poor place too I know what his were does many people have billions I just have billion I'm like a like a poor billionaire I'm like a poor billionaire broy I'm 39 years old my wife has lived the American dream not in the she's her

Focus was never Financial but she saves lives every day at the Ohio State cancer hospital this country has allowed us to have independence from a system of being somebody else's pawn and so it wouldn't make it just wouldn't make sense right even when I ran for US president we took the money we took over 30 million bucks out of our bank account and put it in the campaign which gave me the ability to to speak my mind freely and for better horse you know that that sometimes that's good sometimes that's bad electorally speaking but I

think it's always good as a leader and so one of the things I learned through that process though is you don't want to be you don't want to just be like taking you want to have impact whatever allows you to maximally have impact and so if I was to have won the presidential race even that 30 million that I put in was a poultry sum to the super Pacs that supported the other candidates I beat up beat out a lot of Governors and former Senators but I ended up fourth if you're talking about with the

difference between the people who are number two and number three a lot more superpack spending made the difference and so my view is but then when those people get elected yeah I'm not going to beholding any we don't want you doing this I'm not going to be beholding anybody and actually in Ohio in Ohio there's a there's a bit of a culture of a little bit of a a lot of states have this pay to play culture I think you got to end that if you got to actually serve the actual people so how can

you raise money and end it yes yeah well you don't you don't make promises to people that why would I give you 100 million exactly if you believe in my vision come aboard and if not don't so then what if you don't get that money what do you do first of all at least we're backstopped and blessed as I told you what we do with my presidential campaign and the second is the way I look at at it is it's my job to deliver the message and if that's going to be a winning message that's

going to be the job of people who want to support us Grassroots donations by the way we're a great way a great experience we had in the presidential campaign I think we probably had more $1 donors than anybody who had been in a similar position $1 donors but it actually sends a message of a bottom-up Grassroots version of it so you don't want people who are beholden you can't afford to have that I think it's one of the things that Donald Trump did this time around which is pretty smart is he's not beholden he's a

he's a billionaire but if people want to support him he saying no either so I think that you want to change the country be at once not just living in your own Echo chamber and satisfying yourself and patting yourself on the back for doing what made you feel like you were sending the right virtue signal but at the same time stay true to your principles at the same time too so I think that's the way I think about it you got to be focus on impact TR Trump got a lot of money from Elon do

you feel like that's maybe a conflict of interest of the amount of influence Elon has so I think one of the things that Mak that's great so I think I think the thing what do you mean what's a good question yeah I like yeah yeah because it is because he doesn't shy away so my view is I think the best you're going to get in this country is you've got somebody who is independent of that system Donald Trump is independent of that system he won in 2016 with effectively an Fu to the system that tried

to stop him and that's what the people viewed as the attractive quality to put him there he's a multi-billionaire right so he doesn't need that money he really is I mean there there's no doubt about it in terms of in terms of where he is today and so I think that's a that's all equal a good thing now do I prefer a system I'll tell you what my ideal state is I would love a system in which the influence of Mega Money on American politics was virtually non-existent Mega Money Right small dollar donations I like

but I would love that system that's not the system we live in today it's just not and you have George Soros you have a bunch of other people on the left that by the way they used to say the same thing in 2010 corporations are not people citizens united we don't want that until we got the Soros checks and then we're not going to worry about that any longer and you know I think that would I rather have a check and balance in that system than not yeah if both sides play the same game it

kind of negates itself out which is kind of interesting as a way to look at it and in many ways one of the things we've seen and this should be encouraging is the people we the people at our best are able to still see through it so if you look at Michael Bloomberg right yeah he try to run for US president spending like boatloads of money it just it like just didn't work actually you have candidates even this last time around that have had boatloads of money try to spent buy them you're you're never going

to you're never going to a turd is always going to weigh more than the money that could lift it okay but moneyone from both sides doesn't really cancel up out it's just the corporation still have all the power and the people don't would I rather let me rather have a check and balance I would rather have at least competitive forces that are 360° but the ideal state would our ideal State one be one in which the influence of money on electoral politics was non-existent yeah I think that'd be an ideal state but wouldn't that put

billionaires at in a more advantageous position because then they could fund their own campaigns we could talk I mean if you want I do think that it would but at least they're not bought and paid for by somebody else somebody can see that right right bought and pay PR by yourself yeah so anyway I think that I think that where I am though is also pragmatically looking at this free speech is important in the country you want people to be able to express themselves and then you could say that oh if they don't fund the

Canada directly they can fund other causes I don't think that's the biggest problem in the country right now if you got checks and balances in a lot of different directions yeah most billionaires in this country are not in the same side of most issues right you got billionaires who are on different sides of a lot of different issues I think that that's okay I think that that's okay it's not it's not the fight it's not the next fight I'm going to pick okay it's not the next Crusade I'm on a problem to solve the next

Crusade I'm on a problem to solve was restore the American dream actually ensure that the best person's able to get the job through a mer through an actual meritocracy restoring the idea that through your own hard work and dedication you're able to get a good education and get ahead in this country restore the center of the country being a place where we have the bleeding edge of innovation in America that's where my next fight is and yeah you're right you don't want people who are going to be instruments for special corporate interests being independently successful

allows you to have that Independence at some point in the distant future is that system itself going to be changed one might hope so but in the meantime I think you got pretty good checks and balances across the board where you got different moneyed interests with different competing influen agree to disagree on that I think that's the biggest problem involved yeah you know I think I think that's why everything moves so slow because they want to pass something and then they have to speak to their donuts like is it okay for me to pass this

yeah so look I think that that's when nothing happens you're not wrong but I do think that you got to pick what you're going to pick as your next battle to change and as a governor of one state you're not going to change that I'll tell you right so at the level of a political culture overall at the level of a Nation could that be the stuff of an actual political Reawakening in our country at some point in time it could be but I think right now there's a much more achievable mission that I'm that

I'm actually pretty optimistic about is thing I always tell you what I believe I can do everything we've talked about so far I think I can do I think we can help do it that the state of Ohio set an example for the rest of the country and what we might aspire to I'm not going to make a false promise on but bring up a good point gotcha is there a state that you've seen Implement certain changes and they don't have to be holistically in the way that you're talking about but certain changes that have

had positive effects and you've gone wow it is possible is there a state even on like a small level because we can point at all the poor decisions and how they've negatively impacted States but I don't think we ever shine a light on the states that have made these changes I think uh I think Texas is doing a pretty good job with its Universal school choice measures that are soon hopefully to become law it's on its way in that looks like a really solid program I think the ability to go to zero income tax nine

states that have done that it makes that table Stakes I think for the rest of the country to say that the burden on a business owner or the burden on an entrepreneur so I think got nine states in that category I think the states that have done a good job of attracting industry I mean historically it was thought that even in areas like Aerospace Exploration places like you know Florida or Texas would lead the way you got States like Montana to Colorado doing a good job and I'm not just picking Republic examples here for example

so I do think that there are areas where states have brought down the barrier for new innovation brought down the tax barrier so that that compounding interest can work in everybody who lives in that State's favor and have actually enacted true educational freedom I think there are some good examples to learn from if I felt like some some model had already been perfect then I wouldn't need to you know come in with it with the new vision but I hope I hope what we're able to do with Ohio is to provide that Beacon of example

for the rest of the country hypothetically if you ran for governor of Ohio would these be policies you would run on is abolishing state income tax or the $110,000 for every kid as soon as they're born yeah so then the latter would have to be more likely federally administered but compound interest working in the favor of lifting people up and you know getting rid of it state income taxes I think is like the easiest lowest hanging fruit way to do that educational choice for everyday citizens to be able to go to the best possible School

and then just bringing down like not by a little bit but by a lot the red tape and Regulatory barriers that stop actual businesses from locating in what I think is one of the best places in the country to do it and seeing an economic boom as a consequence yeah it's basic table stakes and I would go even you I'd go further in some other respects we haven't talked about either which is Reviving civic education in our country part of that sense of that loss of Pride and self-confidence comes from a lot of kids feeling

like they're taught to hate our country instead of to be proud of it I think that Revival of civic education is pretty important I personally believe that every High School senior who graduates from high school should be able to pass the same Civics test that every legal immigrant has to pass in order to become a citizen somebody comes from another country if they want to become a citizen they got to actually pass a basic Civics exam which I think makes sense you got to be proficient in English and know the first thing about a country

I think it'd be great if we talk every High School senior before they graduate the basic things we expect of a newcomer to the country so they can be proud of our country I think we'd probably see military voluntary military recruitment go up as a consequence I think we'd see a cultured civic-minded service go up in our country if people knew more about our country that falls on our educational system as well you know look I think that there there's a lot else that you know would be would be part of what I want to

accomplish but the kinds of things we're talking about here absolutely and I do think that's something a governor can accomplish you brought up citizenship ending Birthright is citizenship for the kids of illegals that's what I would favor that's what I do favor and have long favored that's a whole separate we get into legal rabbit holes no I just want to clarify if you if you came into the country I'm a pretty hardliner that if you're going to come to the country come legally period don't enter the country what if they're here legally awaiting their um

what's the illegally no no no like all the cases that are going on illegally though no no no but there are some that came they applied for talking about legal Asylum Seekers they went through the the the borders and they so now they're waiting for their trial and then they have the kids so I would say I would let's just start with the let's just start with the lowest hang fruit obvious stuff a seal the Border B stop paying for any Sanctuary Cities end any kind of government benefit to anybody who enters the country illegally

and government welfare benefits to anybody who's even here on asylums to end the incentives to be here illegally ending Birthright citizenship for the kids of illegals that is one of those incentives and then at least starting with anybody who has committed a crime and even I would go a little further than that anybody who entered the country illegally recently let's start with that what does recently mean the last 18 months last 24 months you came in the last 18 to 24 months illegally crossing that border you haven't established roots in this country I think it's

a ridiculous claim to think that in one year or two years you have if that group of people alone is returned to their country of Fortune if it's just that that alone would represent the largest mass deportation in American history by far so very practically to say the largest mass deportation in American history I don't know that many people who actually find it objectionable to say if you entered illegally in the last couple years of Biden you haven't established roots in the country or you committed a crime we're talking about millions of people but to

say combine that with sealing the border and ending incentives to enter this country illegally I think most Americans are actually if they're have the permission to say it most Americans are in favor of that combine that with a rational approach to fixing our legal immigration system in a way that works for the benefit of America including for the benefit of American workers but in a way that benefits the people who are already here do we have a legal immigration system that does that optimally now no we do not can we design a legal immigration system

that you know uses Market mechanism right companies should pay for the ability pay the country for the ability to actually hire somebody born abroad but in a way the benefit it's that company yes I think there are basic fixes that we can make as a total pack because I think most people in this country are are in favor of and I think there's a role for the states to play here too is the pragmatic part of those Mass deportations how you going to do it you only have this many ice agents well I mean there's

Provisions in law it's like 287g is what it's called that allows the federal government to partner with state and local law enforcement to help them carry that out that doesn't require the federal military to be showing up in you know other parts of the country that should be utilized and it's not and I think you need willing Governors willing State leaders to be able to be good partners and carrying out that focused Mission but if you explain it to the people and I think it's one of the things I found in the country is most

Americans love our country and want what's best for our country and if you explain it to them the people are with us I think that sometimes where we fall short of just sloganeering instead of actually explaining what makes sense for most people I think that's half the battle and so I think if you have both the presidential level I think Donald Trump's going to do a good job of it I think he's already off to a good start in the first week but if you have Partners who are leading the state at the level of

the 50 states across the country doing the same thing to reinforce that I'm confident we can have a pretty rational solution here I could be mistaken but what was like the provision or executive order that Trump did where now they can go into places like churches to get illegals I mean look I think there's a lot of uh I I I want to I'd want to look at that in front of us before we get get into you know specifics cuz I'm not I'm not off the bat familiar with yeah with this I tend to

I tend to have a rule of thumb which is you know in Washington DC it's a good rule of thumb a lot of people talk about statutes and then you actually read the statute it say it says something different than what they talked about and same thing with the executive orders but broadly speaking as a principle do I believe in using local law enforcement to be able to enforce the law that if you're in this country illegally to be able to return you to your country of origin certainly if you've committed another crime or even

if you came within the last 18 to 24 months great and easy place to start use local law enforcement to do it I think that actually creates a much more Peaceable way to carry this out in a way that is still respectful of the Dignity of every human being as a human being I think we got to remember that if many of us right any of us were in the same position as many migrants wanted a better life for their kids maybe each of us would have done the same thing they would have done if

the United States government is perceived as giving you a wink and a nod to come on in but that doesn't change the fact that we're a nation founded on the rule of law so I think doing it in a manner that is respectful of every person's humanity and dignity while at the same time not compromising on the rule of law I think that's achievable actually but I think that's the way we ought to carry this out yeah did you see anything I mean this is from PBS it seems like Department of Homeland Security says that

IBS ice is able to PBS we should not have state funded media I'll just start with that okay I can pull up another source what were you going to ask say there's a question I mean to conclude on this it was just saying that it was able to enforce immigration laws to catch criminal aliens including murders and who have illegally entered the country they're no longer able to hide in churches and schools to avoid arrest yeah I think I think that seems fair to me MH but I feel like you were going to say something

I don't think I don't think we as a country gener like murders and hiding in school churches yeah I mean I it's a different question than this but when it comes to free markets I'm you know everything you're saying makes sense right like deregulating kind of letting the market operate as it is yeah uh typically is you know works out in in the best case and I think the thing that I have the most concerned with is Healthcare in this regard because the inelasticity of people's you know access to decline healthc care doesn't really exist

so I'm curious is there anything you can Implement in Ohio to ensure quality Health Care to the citizens of the state I think I mean at state level so most healthc care is is certainly Medicare it's a federal program Medicaid Administration and also even thinking about basic things like school health right implementation of physical education the best way to save on Healthcare cost just to me say the blunt truth is actually make sure people are more healthy yeah so if you're able to if people have better health outcomes this is one of the areas where

usually it's a trade-off with how much money do you put in to get an outcome and then do you trade off a bad outcome for more cost that's how most things in life work when it comes to designing a health system it doesn't work that way the healthier people are the more money you actually end up saving so when you look at the quality of food served in public schools that's a state government that's a state government item when you look at the quality of early physical education which I talked about earlier in a different

context but it applies here too I think that's really freaking important we used to measure early physical education outcomes I brought up the example of the Presidential Fitness Test and people that maybe a little bit hardcore for middle school or whatever but I'm not wedded to one particular example but from an early age making physical excellence in the pursuit of physical Excellence a Worthy the goal that we not only implement but measure you only Excel in what you measure in our Public School System starting at a young age I think is strictly a good thing

and so those are areas where it's not a Panacea but you're thinking over the long run you're not going to see it show up in the next year but 10 years later in terms of both bringing down cost and reducing the need for higher cost to be able to pursue good health those are great things to start doing at a young age is taking a look at the quality of food going into school cafeterias and to take a look at measuring and implementing physical education is something that we prize and actually celebrate and prioritize and

measure and think about even merit-based outcomes for teachers in school systems every bit as much as academic Excellence as I'm passionate about I think physical Excellence matters too those are the things that states can make a difference and as far as like nonprophylactic measures like if someone breaks their leg or if they get diagnosed with cancer like access to that is that something you're able to address on a state level I think that you can in a limited way make improvements there absolutely I think that you think about disincentives for new healthcare or Hospital Construction

in a particular area for access the amount of time that somebody has to drive to be able to get reasonable care you think about even States it's true in many states across the Midwest people in the VA the amount of distance they have to drive to be able to access reasonable Health Care Bringing Down the barriers to be able to create new sources of providing healthare actually does two things one is it's more accessible to people who want to access it but the other thing it does is it actually brings down competition it it brings

down cost through competition and holds different people's feet to the fire there's also a lot of quirks in the bureaucracy that the amount that you're reimbursed for the exact same thing if it comes through a hospital versus what's deemed to be a Private Practice Clinic like that should cost the same thing if the government reimbursement even through Medicaid or otherwise is different because it shows up through a hospital rather than because it shows up through private practice that's insane why why are they different because just isn't stupid you can just charge whatever you want private

prti Medicare and CMS that's at the federal level now but some of it's administered through the states when it comes to Medicaid there's just different levels of hospital will get more private practice will get less and I think it just is it doesn't make any sense now you have then barriers and even thinking about different licensing requirements and other barriers to create then new medical health care provision new private practices new hospital construction that Confluence of that with the federal nonsensical differences and reimburse rates actually give us a lot of the nonsensical Health outcomes that

we have so I do think that there is a role an important role for the states to play here but in this case when you think about CMS that's really the mother of all of these problems at the federal level and a lot of that's just a product of bad regulation lobbying years of stasis and lack of Market competition honestly General principle is if you're able to destroy bureaucracy and take that excess saving and put it in the bank account of people to be able to buy Their Own Private health insurance in a competitive market

that alone is all us equal just going to be a better starting point for a solution in the alternative so I'm a guy who believes in free markets I'm a guy who believes in capitalism not crony capitalism and not tilted fake free markets which is what we often end up with but actually the real thing that's the ultimate end state but in the meantime kids aren't the same as adults when it starts with physical education early quality food that kids are served at a young age that alone over a longer term period of time is

going to yield dividend in health outcomes and cost savings you don't think any of the problems with private insurance what's that you don't think any of I private insurance is major health major problems part of it among them is that they have a special exemption from rules that apply to other industries that are anti-competitive rules that apply to other Industries don't apply to health insurance companies what are some of these well for example antitrust rules antitrust rules don't apply to health insurance companies in the same way they do to other companies it's super hard to

start a new health insurance company you think about like Innovative startups you SE in a lot of different areas why haven't you heard of a new innov you he new ative startup for like basically anything you could imagine you don't hear a new Innovative startup being funded for a new health insurance company why because the barriers to entry by regulatory Fiat are so darn high and I'm sure they're lobbying to maintain that because it maintains their Monopoly of course in the industry oh course yeah so so I don't think I don't consider the Private health

insurance Market to actually be a market in any sense of the word Tak true capitalism from crony capitalism that's where I look at it so you know is how do you get rid of it yeah well I think you roll back a lot of those restrictions legislatively let's start with that and then and then I think that alone would see a capital boom and then funding have to do that on a federal level be a federal level that be a federal level yeah so so it's not it's and that's the thing about our beauty of

our system is there's certain things that are for a president doing with Congress and the Senate but there are limits on what a president can do because our Founders envisioned a system of federalism where most laws ought to be made and implemented at the level of the states in areas from education into ordinary regulatory policy that's this beauty of our system there's there's a lot you can do as a governor but there's some things that had to be done nationally and there's a lot you're able to do as a president but a lot of what's

our country's fate is really in the hands of the states and in some way sense that's actually kind of Market competition of its own right you look at the number one and two states that people move into right now it's Texas and Florida when people leave California and New York I would love for them to be moving to Ohio I think there's no reason it actually can't be might sound aspirational but it used to be it used to be such a state it's just you go through different cycles of leadership and I do think that

generally Florida and Texas have had pretty good Governors all else equal for their state but it would be cool to bring that to what people call I hate the term the Rust Belt but what people called the Rust Belt I think it can be the Revival belt of the country the state of Excellence is is what I want to want to help us create and I think it could be pretty cool not just for you know for the state of Ohio but then in the lab of a democracy to show the rest of the country

what's actually possible Vic ramaswami future governor of Ohio good see thank you brother