She Preached Islam, Now She Shares Christ | Nela's Story

Hi, Nella. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm really fascinated to hear your story. Now, you're someone who didn't grow up in an Islamic country or with a Muslim background. Uh, tell me what first introduced you to Islam. I grew up in New York City and in New York City, you know, you have all of these cultures and religions that are like coexisting side by side. So just, you know, walking through streets of Brooklyn and upper Manhattan, um seeing Muslims on the street, I one day I walked up to um a table where they

were like selling books and incense and and there was a young man who was reciting the Quran in Arabic. And I said, "What?" I said, "What is that?" He showed me the inside of the book and it was all like completely in Arabic. There was no English and I was so fascinated by that. That that's that was kind of a leadin for me. And then when I was in college just um meeting Muslims and and asking them about Islam and being attracted to to the culture, you you go from being a little bit interested and

attracted to the culture to what was the next step that made you really want to study more and even follow Muhammad? I met a man. I met a guy. Okay. Often that's the case, right? Uh my my first husband was a Muslim. Yeah, he he was very confident. Um he like up until that point, I feel like he was the smartest person I'd ever met, you know, and um he started talking to me about about Jesus and the Quran. And even though I was kind of raised Christian, but I I didn't really understand who Jesus

was. because I didn't really understand things. Um, and and right before I went to college, my family had started, we had started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses. So, that kind of made it even more bit vague for me like who confusing. When you met your we first met your husband, what type of sect of Islam was this? he was transitioning from the Nation of Islam to Sunni Islam. For people who um are not familiar, uh the the Nation of Islam is an organization. It's a it's a black nationalist organization and they use some aspects of Islam

like, you know, dietary things. um they they give the greeting, the salams, they it's more of a social group to to uplift uh black people and improve their condition. They have like a financial program and things like that, but it's more of a social organization. My my first husband, he he was transitioning from that to Sunni Orthodox Islam. That's how I end up going to well, we end up going to Saudi Arabia. Wow. Okay. Okay. I'm going to I'm fascinated by that and I want to hear all about your experience in Saudi Arabia. So, just

to make sure I understand. So, the Nation of Islam, is that Farrakhan? Yes. Okay. And and what I'm hearing is that's more of a socialist focused less on God and spirituality and more on uplifting black people. Yes, they do have a spiritual component, but their focus is really on improving the condition of uh, you know, African-Americans financially, teaching them about business and about how to raise families and that that kind of thing. With your husband starting there and then going into Sunni Islam, is it safe to assume that he was getting deeper and deeper into

the Quran and into the more spiritual aspects of Islam? um not so much spiritual but more religious taking on the laws especially being in Saudi Arabia there was a focus on that on the laws. Okay. Okay. That's you make a good point actually. So the difference between a religion and a relationship we always talk about Jesus it's a relationship not a religion right. So let's talk let's let's dig into that a little bit deeper because you make a good point there. the laws, the laws about a religion that you have to do these things to

be right with God. Um, how did that manifest itself in him and in your relationship? He was in the army when we met. He went awall. He was told that it was wrong to be in the army. This is against the religion. So, he just walked away and they came and got him. He went to jail for a couple of weeks I think and then they shipped him back and then he came out of the military. He wanted to study the religion. Uh so he applied to the Islamic University of Medina which Medina is like

one of the major centers of Islamic faith. So we ended up going there uh for about 5 years. That's incredible. I mean, most American Muslims haven't even, you know, gone to Saudi Arabia. What was your experience like there? Where do I start? Um, where do I start? Um, well, start from the beginning. So, you get there. What's the culture shock? The culture shock was obviously Okay. Now, we were coming from Egypt. Actually, we had actually we went to Egypt first. Wow. To study Arabic. Yes. So, we were in Egypt two years studying Arabic. Egypt is

is Africa, so it's like very colorful, very noisy. We were in Cairo. It was very exciting. So much history there. I had like a lot of freedom in in Cairo because it's kind of like New York City, you know, you go out, jump on a bus, get in a taxi or whatever, go wherever you want. Um, and and Cairo, like I said, was a very exciting city. I was there studying Arabic with Muslims from all over the world from all parts of Africa, from India, from Southeast Asia. It was very very exciting. When we went

from there to Saudi Arabia, it was like we we we took a boat. Um I I write about this in the book as well. It was a 3-day boat ride from Sinai to Jida. Of course, the first thing you see when you come into JIDA is the US flag, you know, is right there in the in the port and the the US uh military is there. We come into the city and it was like everybody was wearing black and white. All the men are wearing white, all the women are wearing black. Um it's very very

conservative. Everybody is very well behaved in public. Like it's it's pretty I don't know. It just felt like like controlled like controlling or is is there's definitely a level of control. Yeah, definitely. Cuz there's certain things you just don't see in public and the streets are very clean like you eat off the streets. So that was like the first thing for me that was like really strange. And I started wearing black. He started wearing white. I started well I was already wearing a veil before I left uh the US. Some people may not know there's

different levels, right? From all the way from sometimes just what a a head scarf with I've seen headscarf and just western clothing all the way to even you don't even see the eyes. It's like a a covering of the entire body including gloves. You were using a headscarf but western you might wear jeans. Well, no because we we h we had become celophy. So we were part of this sect. They were very much um even though it was a sect but the sect was based upon following the true teachings of Islam. It it was it

was like a Puritan kind of um ideal you could say. So part of that was you need to leave the disbelieving land and go to the land of Islam because this is a part of the teachings of Muhammad. There's two sets of copies. The the one that I was a part of the the quietest and the ones that you see in ISIS they're also called celopies. They're from the same source except one is more active in jihad and and so forth. Since we're talking about how ISIS is from that same sect, what is your response

when you hear, "Oh, Islam is just a religion of peace." The word Islam does not mean peace. I know a lot of people think that it means submission. uh one who submits one who is a slave of Allah peace aspect is supposed to come with submission of submission to God Allah I didn't find that promise of peace to be true Islam is not does not really teach peace uh it doesn't teach love it's more teaching justice mercy punishment. I wouldn't say Islam is a religion of peace unless the Muslims are a minority. When the Muslims

become a majority in a place, then we have some issues there, right? As we're seeing all around the world more and more today. Uh, in fact, that's actually my understanding, and you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, is that that's what even happened with Muhammad in the Quran. As soon when he was a minority, he was wanting to make peace with the Jews and the Christians, and hey, we're going to live, you know, we're brothers and sisters. And as he grew, he became more and more violent and more and more wanting to subjugate the

other populations to Islam and then either pay my understanding, like a a tax, uh, in other words, money to not kill you. Um, or you convert to Islam or we kill you. Those were the three options. And that's the world that Islam is trying to create, at least from Muhammad's standpoint in the Quran. That's my understanding. And I want to get into this idea in the Quran, the the the idea of making every other faith or person either Muslim or subservient to a Muslim. I want people to understand how much of an expert you are.

You went to the Middle East and how much studying of Arabic did you do and the Quran itself? Well, I studied Arabic for two years and then I went to Saudi Arabia and I was studying with scholars there in I was in Medina. So I was like 15 minutes walking from the Haram. Uh if any if anybody knows anything about Medina like this is a major place. Uh studied with major scholars. My husband my ex-husband was in the Islamic university. So I was I had access to his teachers by phone. Um I was studying with

groups. Like I was very very studious. Um, and like I said, by the time I got to Saudi, I was already fluent in Arabic, so I was able to sit and listen to scholars speak. Um, and I was in, you know, those circles. So then when I came back to the US, I started teaching and um, in I taught in Philly, Philadelphia for seven years. And uh I've I've also been teach I taught online for a while. What did you teach Arabic language and the Quran? Wow. Okay. So you're in the Middle East. One of

the things I it appears to be is that black Muslims and Middle Eastern Muslims don't really mingle that I see. So tell me about that relationship. Okay. I speak Arabic so it's a little different. My experience is a little different dealing with Middle Eastern people. Gotcha. Um, however, uh, there are African-Americans who do experience racism uh, from Arabs. That that does happen. But, you know, in the Middle East, it's different because you're an expat like you're from outside of the country. You're there working or you're a student. If you're American, you kind of have a

higher status no matter what ethnicity. So Asian-American, African-American, it no it doesn't matter depends on the people you know pe different I know people have have experiences uh but generally if you are an American generally there is better treatment but they do have a like a totem pole there of kind of who you know what status that people have the bottom from is I think Indians from India and then Africans and then Europeans and Americans and British and then if you are from an a GCC country an oil country they're at the top. Okay. So

take me through you're you're you became interested in Islam. You're educating yourself not only on the Quran but on uh Arabic. You have now moved to the Middle East. You've married a Muslim. When did things turn to being abusive, obsessive, and controlling? Well, pretty much from the beginning because like I said, he was transitioning from the nation which teaches this high high respect for women to orthodox Sunni Islam. So right away it was like okay you need to dress like this and he wanted me to cover my face and I was still we were still

in the US. he wanted me to wear all black. And for Muslim men who are practicing, it's kind of an embarrassment to them if their wife doesn't dress right. So I had to like represent him in a sense. So that was Yeah, that that was hard. I like I remember one morning I was I put on my sweats and ready to go out for a jog and he's like, "Where do you think you're going? You can't go out like that." you know, and then and then once we got to Saudi, it was like I had

to get inspected before I went out. Wow. Okay. He would inspect. I mean, literally, I'm not exaggerating. Like, he would be like looking at my clothes and look, oh, you're not wearing socks. Um, you need to go put socks on, you know, things like that. I mean, it's 105° outside and I'm like fully fully covered in face veil, gloves, everything. and he's worried about my socks, you know, things like that, right? A lot of it to me got a little bit petty that had nothing to do with God. It was just a lot of things

were control and keeping like a almost like a pecking order. There was this there was this very important chain of command you know um where it's like the scholars of the religion or the scholars that we rever whatever they say and then it's the leaders of our community and then it's your husband and then it's you me I mean me as a woman so it was like real clear chain of command. I want people to understand you weren't just somebody who naively went off. I mean, you learned the language. You understand the Quran. People can't

just say that you were ah she didn't know the true faith. So, how did all this make you feel when you first were told to do this? Okay, this is where like some of my old traumas like childhood things kind of kicked in because I accepted a lot of things. I accepted a lot of things out of just guilt, shame, feeling, low self-esteem, that kind of thing. uh and also belonging, you know, belonging to the group. There was also a lot of pressure from other women. Talk about that because that's interesting. Yeah, there was there

was pressure from other women to to dress a certain way, to behave a certain way, and because we were like so strict, it was like no pants, no um no colors, uh obey your husband. there and there was always um we we were always kind of like accepting things from the men or making excuses for them. Nellisa, you talk about how it's was controlling from the beginning with your husband and following the rules of Islam. How did polygamy first enter your relationship or your marriage really? Well, it started with a surah, a chapter from the

Quran called surah Rahman and it's this very majestic surah. this very majestic chapter. It's very repetitive. Which of the favors of your Lord will you deny? Right? And it's really repetitive about that. So it goes into life in paradise. And my first husband was very particular. He wanted me to to learn and read this chapter and be familiar with it because it talks about paradise and what the men have in paradise. And the men have these women uh who are virgins and um and it even talks about their highman being broken and then growing another

them growing another highman. I mean this is what the men in Islam this is this is their future hope is women. So it's like um I read something a quote from I think St. Augustine where he said that you know Muhammad what he taught and what the Quran teaches is give it gives into the carnal desires of the men. It doesn't teach him to to harness that really. He's it's like something he's always hoping for like this is his future hope is women. So you so he wanted me to see that and know that this

is his nature as a woman and as as a man, excuse me, as a man and as a woman I need to respect that this is what God wants for him. God wants him to have multiple women. Remember every Muslim reads the Quran with the idea with the understanding that this is God's word. God said it himself. Okay? So it must be true. And then of course you know the verse where it says uh two, three or four, but they can have up to four. So when you're learning the religion and you have this zeal,

you know, your heart is open um because you you you want to follow God and and so this is what's being taught to you and you're seeing it in black and white. You know, you're you're you're seeing it in the Quran. I want to say something about the Quran. The Quran is not complete without the Bible. And I want anyone to know that whether they're thinking about becoming a Muslim, whether they are a Muslim, the Quran will never be complete without the Bible. Now, here's why. When I entered Islam in 1993, we had a translation

called the Ysef Ali translation. in that translation of the Quran in the footnotes were references back to the Bible. So if there was because in the Quran the stories of the prophets are just like bits and pieces. You get bits and pieces of Solomon, David, Jacob, you know. So this writer uh put the Bible references. So the early African-American Muslims read both I read both in the beginning, but it was the Celopy movement along with the Saudis that decided, "No, no more of this. removed the Bible from the Quran footnotes and they came with another

translation called the noble Quran which only refers you to either other parts of the Quran or they'll refer you to hadith. So there was a complete cut from the Bible that happened to us in 1996 or 97. My understanding, I don't know if you follow any of the Christian apologists that that speak to Islam, but when you bring up the Bible being fundamental in the Quran, that's their point in the sense of they said there's an Islamic dilemma here. The Quran points to the Bible as being the word of God. And if the Bible is

the word of God, the Quran and Islam is false. Now, if if that's not true and and that part of the Quran is false, well, then Islam is false. So, e either way, Islam is false. They said you can't get around that because it's clear that the Bible is pointed to as the word of God. In fact, it says that people need to refer back to the Bible. Muhammad was told to refer back to the Bible if he's confused about something. And the Bible clearly points to Muhammad being a false prophet. So, I I think

that's a a great point. you know, at this time is also when, you know, we're starting to talk about polygamy because, as I mentioned to you, it's right there in the, you know, in the Quran. So, um, it's something that they they wanted us women to accept it before it happens. You think they were almost grooming you? Yeah. And I I didn't realize it then, but Yes. Yes. for sure. They're they're grooming you through the Quran. What's that day like when your husband who you love and you've dedicated your life to says, "I want to

bring somebody else into this relationship." Muhammad did it. How does that feel? We wanted to please God. Like I think we really wanted to please God, but we thought that we had to do all these things. We thought that we had to do go, you know, leave our families, um, wear these clothes, accept this different culture, learn this different language, um, kind of allow the men to be men. I think I felt like the men were encouraged to be irresponsible uh, and to be to indulge themselves. I felt like that was encouraged by the leadership

and and even some scholars. I felt like it was encouraged. You know, let's say a man, he has two wives and he can't afford it. Maybe some level of hypocrisy there because you know the rules, but you you feel like you're a man. You don't have to follow the rules. all throughout like being a Muslim and being a part of the Islamic community, you're being taught these slogans and um you know, so one of them is love for your sister what you love for yourself. So if you have a good husband, then you love that

for your sister as well. I think that stuff really got into our heads. So, um, for me, um, I didn't have as much of a I kind of numbed myself, I think, to where I didn't feel too much emotion about it. But some women didn't. Some some of my friends, they would fight, make problems or fight with the other wife or seen a lot of that kind of drama. I mean, it that's human nature, right? Yeah. I mean, if you're going to introduce that kind of situation, you brought up a little bit about, you know,

childhood trauma and abuse. How do you feel that that played into your accepting of Islam and its rules and polygamy and the control of a husband? Okay. People pleasing or what they call fawning. I'm I'm dedicating like a whole blog to healing and re and um recovery from trauma. So fawning, you know, wanting people to be pleased with you. I I grew up in an environment where, you know, I moved to different households. I didn't grow up with, you know, my parents weren't married, but they So, I had my dad and my stepmom, my mom

and my stepdad, my grandparents in the middle. So, I I want that pat on the head, you know? I I want someone to be pleased with me. I want Right. I um and then I want to belong cuz I was always questioning my belonging as a child, you know. So, and I'll tell you something else. Um, I wanted so badly to go into the military when I was coming out of high school and my dad said, "Hell no." And so I joke with myself now because it's like, "Well, I didn't go in the military. I

just went into strict, you know, Sunni Islam, right?" Uh, you you had a general, it was your husband, right? Yeah. So definitely the trauma played into it. And my friends, I'm not just, this is not just my experience. I'm talking like people, a whole community of people who we hung out with each other for 20 years, like back and forth between Philadelphia and Saudi Arabia. And you're keeping in contact with all these people over the years, raising our kids together. You start to see those patterns. And then before you know it, like we saw one

of the little girls, actually a couple of the little girls that I watched grow up, you know, now they're 16, 17, they've been married, they've been divorced. Wow. Yeah. And they have kids like, and they're already living their mother's experience at 16, you know. um we had Muslim boys going into gangs and you know you you have to look at that. I mean I looked at it at at the 20 year mark those things became very clear to me that okay guys something is wrong. It was just before my girls were becoming teenagers. So I

was able to catch some things with them that I saw was really going the same direction. We were, in other words, we were not transforming. We were not um becoming better people or better humans or like a lot of us had trauma from childhood and stuff, especially being cuz a lot of us were from the inner cities. even suburban girls who get involved with Muslim guys from the inner city. You know what I mean? So now they're taking on his trauma. You know, when we become Muslims as as Americans, the first thing you know what

the first thing they tell you to do is take a Muslim name. So you take a Muslim name like Haya, you know, and now you have this alter identity. you're you're trying to now become Haya or Fatima. So there's a lot of personality distortions that can come up and and stuff when and when people are already coming from a background of we had people come out of jail. I saw some things that I just I met Muslim women fully covered who had done five years in the state pen for armed robbery. Somehow Sunni Islam tends

to attract certain types of people from the black community. Why do you think that is? Maybe ego. You know, you get a chance to puff yourself up and say, you know, I am the one who it, you know, has the truth. And you know, like the Pharisees, you know, you get to be a Pharisee. this distorted relationship between human and Allah. Like I don't use the word Allah anymore because Allah you're supposed to be a slave to him. No, I'm a daughter of the king. So I I will never go back to being a slave.

you know, you have to do all these things to please Allah and it's it's never going to be enough and you're never going to know whether you're So, I mean, for me, that's what really changed me is this spirituality piece cuz I I really wanted the relationship. How do women get trapped in Islam? Having a family, having a husband, you know, you want to keep your household together, that's a big one. Money, if you don't have wealth of your own and your husband is providing for you. Also, the fear of hell. The Quran makes hell

so real, like you see it before your eyes and you're afraid of it. Another thing is loss of child custody. The Islamic uh custody law is that when there's a divorce, the children only can stay with the mother as long as she does not remarry. When she remarries, they must go to their father. So, they're not to be raised in another man's household. So some women will stay because they want to continue having access to their children. I knew one lady when I was living in Qatar. Uh she was an Arab lady, lived across the

street. Her children used to come and visit her and she secretly had a new husband but she had to keep it a secret that she was remarried otherwise the children wouldn't be able to visit her. Wow. That's crazy. and especially these interational marriages, you know, you never see your children again. All this is going on in your in your marriage, you're starting to questioning your faith or your religion. So, after 27 years, what was the final straw that made you seek a way out of Islam? I had a nervous breakdown. I had a complete emotional

breakdown. My half my body was paralyzed. I couldn't move. I couldn't stop crying. I was doing a doing some kind of therapy online. That was in 2017. That was a very hard time. very hard time. Were you in the United States? No, I was in Qatar. Qatar. Mhm. With my second husband and my two girls. Your your girls are both now in the Yes. United States. Mhm. Okay. All this experience is going on, how did you first make that step towards Jesus? I didn't, you know, um it's just so amazing how it happened and and

and people would probably but I have a whole community of people who will corroborate this story. Okay. A whole group of people who will corroborate this. Okay, I'll believe. Okay. I was like I say in the wilderness for about two years. I had mentally, emotionally, spiritually left Islam, but I didn't know what I was, you know, I thought, okay, I guess I'm going to be an agnostic and I couldn't be atheist, but I just didn't know what I was. I started studying science, started doing all these, you know, weird meditations and all that kind of

stuff. So when I came back from Qatar, COVID happened soon after and that's was when I was just doing all this pondering and you know everything. And then I started working with science to heal my traumas, childhood trauma, stuff like that. And I thought, well, maybe I'm going to end up being agnostic. I didn't know what I was. I just knew I wasn't Muslim anymore. So, it was Sunday morning at 10:00 a.m. and I said I was going to get my workout in early and I got there and they said, "No, we don't open until

1:00 on Sundays." And I heard some music from down the hall. So, I said, "Is that a church service going on?" They said, "Yes, the church rents it out every week." So, I see all these people kind of ushering me down the hall and I'm like and I just my feet just automatically turn like towards the music down the hall. And then we I sit down. I listen to the sermon. And this is the part that's unbelievable. The sermon was called Hats On, Hats Off. And it was about women's dress in the Bible. It was

about First Corinthians. What is it? 1 Corinthians 11, I believe. Uh I don't remember, but yes, there is a Yeah. Okay. That that was what the sermon was about. And he he talked about women in the Middle East and different cultures who who cover. And I was like, this is not happening. And so, right, I didn't realize it, but two seats away, his wife was sitting, you know, on the same row with me. And so afterwards when they were doing the announcements, uh, someone came up and said, "Well, you may have come in here to

use the gym and and ended up in service." And I said, and I said, "Yeah, that's what happened to me." Right? So So she goes, "Is that what happened?" I said, "Yeah." I said, "But I feel like that sermon was just for me, for me, you know." And so I went up, I talked to him after that. And I I knew right right then, but I said, "No, let me just take, you know, let me just take it easy and see what happens." So, I was invited to a Bible study that Wednesday and I went

to the Bible study and I felt this cool breeze like I can't describe it. other people in the room felt it. And I said to the the leader, the group leader, she she was teaching from uh the book of Habaka. And I said, "Are you anointed?" I I put my hand out like this. I put my hand out to her. I said, I said, "Are you anointed?" And she said, "Well, we we all can be anointed." said she was very modest, very, you know, but that was I said I I feel something from you. Like

I feel I thought she was I don't know doing something. I I felt something and other people in the room felt it and I just started weeping and weeping and and I just felt like a baby. I just I and you know they were because they were reading from Habaka and um the different kingdoms of of the children of Israel and and I felt like because remember I'm coming from a background of Quran where I was the teacher I was the one leading. So, here I am and they're talking about all this history that I

had no knowledge of. I I had nothing. So, I it's like I felt like a baby. Next Sunday, I I went back and I said, "I'm I'm ready." I said, "I'm ready." and I accepted Christ and I took my first communion and then I attended um a night service that was incredible. Um, I felt like chains had literally broken. Um, things that I had been fighting with cuz I mentioned to you about childhood traumas and and stuff because you got to understand like for two years I was into science. I was meditating. I was doing

affirmations. I was, you know, doing all these kind of, you know, listening to, you know, all these megahertz, uh, music and all these kind of things, but I reached like new age. New age. Yes. But I reached a ceiling with science. And that was what got me to the next was was Jesus, was receiving Jesus. you know, that's I'm trying to describe it in the best way I can, you know. Um, and since then, like I've been studying like now I'm studying the book of John, the Gospel of John. And it's literally like I'm walking

with Jesus and I'm I'm befriending him, getting to know him. I get to observe him because the Quran is nothing like that. The Quran, Muhammad's story is not in the Quran. Most Muslims don't even know who Muhammad is. It's just what they've been taught about him. But this going through the Gospel of John, it's like, I'm walking with Jesus. I see him in Galilee and in Canaa and in Samaria, and I see how he's interacting and healing and performing miracles and stuff. And it's like, okay, this I understand now what people when people say my

walk with Christ. I I understand that now because it's like I'm walking with him. I mean, what an incredible story. You could see the Holy Spirit literally working there. And you know, you you mentioned something about you spent years in Islam. You even, you know, explored other things, new age. What do you think about the thoughts of sometimes when we come to our the end of our own rope, the end of our own knowledge is when we reach up to the true God because, you know, I I kind of hear that in your story a

little bit. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you realize that it's it's not all you. It's not all me. It's not me that has to do all this. In in Islam, you do have to do it all. you have to do all these things in order to maybe be accepted by God. But with Christ, you you have to receive. And and that was hard at first because it's like you get so used to being burdened with your your guilt and shame. It feels normal to trash talk yourself, you know. feels normal to think that you you're supposed

to be poor or needy or confused or because these are some of the things that like my my childhood beliefs wanting to be feeds into Yeah. Yeah. fed into that. I'm hearing also like there's this uh false humility almost a self flagagillation where you're beating yourself up in order to humble yourself versus accepting what the God of the Bible says which is you are dearly loved to the point of where I'm willing to sacrifice myself because I love you so much and and it's before you've even you're still a sinner. It's before you've even changed

your behavior. I'm going to show my love and all you have to do is put your faith in that and you will be clean. And it's it's a totally different message. In fact, it's the only message of grace and a God that comes down instead of us working our way up. Every other religion is what you've described. Us working our way up to be good enough to God. And the the the Christian faith says, you know what, you're never going to be on my level. You're never going to be able to work your way up,

but that's okay because I'm going to come down to you and I'm going to sacrifice out of my love and mercy. And it's such a powerful story. And I'm hearing that in your story. That's incredible. So, how long ago was that? It's been one year now. Congratulations. As you're studying the Bible and you're coming in contact through who the Jesus who he said he was and who his disciples who knew him said he was, has there been any eye opening versus the Jesus of the Quran, the false? Oh, yes. The Quran says that Jesus was

born of a virgin mother uh but negates his crucifixion and his resurrection. So it says that Allah made it appear as if he was on the cross but he really just rose up to the heavens. So the Quran says that Jesus is in the in heaven with God. Um, and so my question always was, "What is he doing there? Why is why is he there?" And nobody could really answer that, you know, why is it Muhammad is in the grave? So why is Jesus, you know, in the heavens? So it I to me it it

just corroborates the deity of Jesus, right? And and it brings up another question that I always have. That means that Allah is responsible for Christianity because he made it appear created billions of followers that were against his word. That that doesn't make any sense. It never made sense to me. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. And also one of the things that's really really interesting about Islam is one of the most proven things, believer, non-believer, is that Jesus existed. He died on a cross. whether you believe, you know, the resurrection or not. I mean, I believe

there's more proof than that than almost anything else in any other faith. But if you just believe that and and Islam denies what history says, it'd be like saying, "Oh, the Tanic Titanic didn't go down," kind of thing. So, um I've even heard some Muslims say kind of try to even backtrack on that since it's such a proven fact about Jesus dying on the cross. Um, so that's kind of interesting. I want to say something else because one of my Muslim friends, dear friend, who I've known for years, when I told her about my faith

transition, she said that's like going backwards. Going from Islam to Christianity is going backwards. And chronologically, you know, somebody might see it as, okay, first came Judaism and then came Christianity and then came Islam, right? And so chronologically it might seem that way, but when you look at the laws, okay, I was just reading chapter 8 and I was telling my church members that chapter 8 of John had me triggered because it's about stoning of the woman. And um I'm like there are remote places where this still goes on. I I found a video online.

I was like in Afghanistan. Yeah. Islamic cultures. You're talking Islamic cultures. Yeah. Islamic cultures where where this still happens. You know, that is from the Jewish law. That's Islam mimicking the Jewish law cuz they said, well, the Mosaic law is that, you know, she should be stoned to death because she was caught in adultery. But Islam is saying that too, right? I was talking about how she said it was going backwards and how um I said no Islam actually went back to Judaism, right, with the the stoning of the woman with a lot of the

laws about the dietary laws. I I got so upset with my grandmother one time cuz I wanted to separate the pots they had with the pork and the utensils and stuff and she was like, "Oh, this is just like the Jews." And I got highly offended because that's an insult to say that a Muslim is like a Jew, you know, because there's this spiritual hatred of Jews. But Islam has so much like Judaism. Absolutely. In fact, Muhammad was around hearing about Judaism and Christianity and got I mean honestly a lot wrong um in his understanding

of what it what was what was true about those faiths in the idea of following Jesus now. Do you see the real Jesus clearer than you ever have before? Yeah, because and I see the need for it. See, after practicing all those that law that that was the other thing I was going to mention because the Mosaic law, it was hard to fulfill it. The the animal sacrificing. So when John the Baptist says in chapter 1, behold the lamb of God, they understood what that meant. Cor am I correct that? Yeah. Absolutely. And and but

Islam still does that sacrificing though. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, Jesus is the fulfillment of the the law just like he said he was. He's the ultimate and final sacrifice that was required. And there's no more sacrifice needed because Jesus paid the penalty for that and putting your faith in him, you know, cleans you uh for past, present, and and future sins. And and I see what you're saying as far as not understanding that and understanding what Jesus came to do. You know, Muslims don't understand that because even with the animal sacrificing for for a marriage,

you sacrifice for you have a child, it's one for the girl and two for the boys. When you make Hajj, make pilgrimage to Mecca, you you make an animal sacrifice. And I know because when we went to Mecca, we couldn't afford to sacrifice. So, we had to fast. This is Islam. This this is Islam, you know, and and these are the parts of Islam. What I'm the things that I'm mentioning about Islam are not sect sectarian general stuff that all Muslims agree about. One of the things I think that's so powerful about the message of

the Bible, Old and New Testament, is the fact that we have confidence in salvation. Because in Christianity, it's not our work that saves. It's Jesus's work that saves, right? It's God holding on to us with his strength, not us holding on to God by our behavior. Whereas in Islam, there is no confidence in salvation. Because even in the Quran, Muhammad didn't know. It was in Allah's hands. He didn't know if he was going to go to heaven or hell. And and Muslims say, "Oh, that was just humility." But you know what? It's still an unknown

because it's not in his hands. Whereas in Christianity, because it's not our work, it's because of the grace, glory, and mercy of our God, we have eternal salvation. And that's a beautiful message that you don't have that peace in Islam. And and that's true. Um you know even at the end of the month of fasting and and a lot of Muslims say it even after prayers every day may Allah accept it. So so after you do the worship you're still praying that it's accepted. There's always that doubt, right? Which plays to legalism, which then plays

to a lot of other ugliness just in human beings in general. You know, I'm better than you comes out. You know, I'm unworthy comes out, you know, shame. Yeah. And and then playing into the the the Quran's message of you the best you can be as a slave. So, in this past year, how has your life changed following Jesus? Well, for one thing, uh having peace of mind and better relationships, a better relationship with myself. I I know who God is. Um a a community of people who are so different than the community I was

a part of uh as a Muslim. um you know people who who believe in marriage, who believe in family, people who are um committed to to following Christ, people who are committed to we have people in our church who who go on missions to Africa, who go on missions to you know to help flood victims and things like that. Like seeing things like that is very inspiring. We have I I will say this in the beginning I was very apprehensive about joining a religious community and it it took time for me to trust and I

had to observe the men I I had to I I and from what Interesting. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And for a whole year that's what I did. that I observed, you know, was like and so I I feel that I'm in better company. Um I I feel that so many burdens have been have been lifted. A lot of it is still internal like my transformation. So but I'm I'm I'm doing a blog so people can talk about that. Yeah, we'll put a we'll put a link below in the description. It's called Nella's Nest and

uh Nella's Nest.Blog is my um my link. And um basically, yeah, I'll be I'll be sharing some things about about my transformation. Um, I have a a book that's coming out where I give a lot of my Middle Eastern adventures and because it it wasn't all terrible. A lot of it for me was adventure. Sure. Until it got real. All right. And will you have your information about your book on your blog? Yeah, I'll have it on my blog. Maybe the Lord to took you through this in order to reach the community that you came

out of. You could share at least your experiences if it comes up that because they can't deny that they can't deny your personal experience. Did you receive any backlash and I realize it's still new, but any backlash from your decision to follow Jesus? Not I wouldn't say backlash just more like disappointed people uh people who have known me for a long time as a Muslim and we raised our kids together like I said they are very shocked and disappointed and hurt and um and I and I went through a thing about that. I I went

through some grief about that and God delivered me from that because about seven or eight months ago I went through grief, deep sadness and and I don't want anyone and I guess I want everyone who may watch this to understand that this took years. It wasn't like I hopped out of one box into another box and what that's not the way it happened at all. And so I went through the grief of the loss of my community and the life that I knew and because like I said that's where I belonged and I was a

leader there. So I gave up my position. I gave up my that was and then I had an identity that that was connected to that too. So I went through a deep depression. Um but like I said, God brought me out of it. I'm better now and looking forward to great things. So, life is good. Amen. And yeah, you know what? What advice would you have for somebody who's watching and who isn't Muslim, who's looking to share with somebody like you, uh, who is Muslim, maybe they're friends, maybe they're it's a relative. What What advice

would you have? They want to share with someone who is Muslim. Okay, one question that will catch a Muslim offguard is does Allah love you? Because the Quran doesn't teach love. Uh, okay. It is one of Allah's names, but it's only mentioned twice in the Quran. There's a lot more focus on mercy, mercy, mercy. Why? because the punishment is just always in your face, you know. Um, so most Muslims are familiar with mercy, but they're not familiar with the love of God. That's a powerful question. I love that. What advice would you have for for

a woman who's exploring the idea of Islam? Okay. On the average, Muslim convert women uh generally meet reach a point of disillusionment after 5 to seven years and that is usually because the initial magic or what seems to be magic wears off. You got to understand that Islam has a whole culture around it. So a lot of times you can get involved with the culture. People are kind or you know people are inviting you to food especially if it's Ramadan or things like that. The the culture can kind of pull a person in. Love can

pull a person in. rational arguments also because Muslims do pride themselves on being rational but in fact they're very emotionally attached to Muhammad even though most of them don't know who he is cuz like I said his story is not in the Quran. A lot of times the the men they change after they're married because they realize their obligations as a husband. um they may become more religious like mine did became more religious after I met him and so they can change. That's something to be aware of. Especially if he's like a secular kind of

guy, there's always the possibility he could change. And as I mentioned before, spiritually there's no atonement. There's no So, how can your heart feel at peace spiritually as someone who's a slave to Allah? I'm going to be very honest. If you were to talk to some of the Muslim leaders really honestly and ask them the condition of women and they were to answer honestly, they would tell you that many of the women's condition is not good. The American Muslim, I'm not talking about immigrant Muslims who are coming from, you know, other places. I mean the

American Muslim they will tell you there's lots of divorce there's lots of family problems there's lots of financial problems there's lots of problems in how they want to practice the religion because some people believe that being a good Muslim is being poor no furniture sleep on the floor eat on the floor some believe in like I we talked about before polygamy me some so so you have to look at even what kind of a Muslim is this person that I'm getting together with if it's a like a love match thing and if it's a spiritual

thing again as a woman h how how are you understanding God like God doesn't even talk to women in the Quran God doesn't talk to women God talks to the men to talk to the women that's why I said there's a pecking order. There's a there's a, you know, a status quo. And the reason how I found that out, I told you I was teaching I was teaching Arabic and I was teaching Quran and I was looking for verb forms for the feminine command and I was looking for examples in the Quran and I wasn't

finding them. Why? Because Allah doesn't talk to women. There's only in the whole Quran there's like maybe once or twice. This is so that's interesting because this is such in contrast to the first story that came to me was Jesus speaking to the Samaritan woman as well. It it was a woman who was an outcast. She was already a Samaritan, non-Jewish, hated by the Jewish people. And he's the first person that he shares that he's the Messiah. Wow. God, you know, it's just this powerful message of uh just love and acceptance. Um and in not

even talking about the fact that, you know, woman would have been a woman would have been a secondass citizen just in in general, you know what I mean? Um and it's just a powerful contrast to what you're saying. Yeah. The verse that comes to my mind, the the one verse um Oh women of the prophet. Oh women of the prophet. the yeah he speaks to the wives of Muhammad but not the women in general and that's just one instance but God doesn't speak to the women even when it's about them when it's about their menes

he says men don't do this with women when they're menstruating and stuff like that but not even talking to the women about their own menes you know or pregnancy or nursing a child or their clothing or it's all through the men. I I did another interview uh with a woman from Afghanistan who found Christ and and she said the heaven isn't for women. It's it's a mend dominated alcoholic wh house and and she said what what do I have in that heaven? It's not for women. And that's a fascinating thing to think about. Well, I'm

just like reflect reflecting, you know, the the verses about paradise and the men have women in paradise and there and then it it also talks about the wine and the women have jewelry and they have nice clothing and they have a nice home, but their husband is off someplace else with I mean, when you compare the idea of eternity with the true God of Israel, and the eternity with the false god of the Quran. Uh I mean the Quran's it's a clear like if you were to tell a guy, hey, tell me what you really

want on this earth, it's that versus the the the core of eternity spent with God in heaven is the relationship we get to be with God and each other forever. You know, worshiping God, that's heaven. Um it's just a stark contrast. Yes. Now, what advice would you have for a woman trying to leave Islam? Hopefully, she has a family. Hopefully, she has friends who would be her friends, whether she was Muslim, Christian, Buddhist. I have I'm blessed to have friends like that. You know that friends that I told I came back to Jesus and they're

like, "Oh, we're so happy, but we still loved you when you were Muslim, too." If you have people in your life like that, like hold on to them. Usually it starts with taking off the covering, the hijab. You start to say, "I'm not dressing this way anymore." And then you might stop praying. I think it would depend on the situation. If she has a family, if she has a household, if she has a husband and children, that's going to be a test for her to leave the religion. That's going to be a test. Uh she

should start small though. Start small. Start with small things. You can't leave everything at once. And depending on how the the age of the children, it will be somewhat difficult for them as well to adjust. It would also depend on the husband. if he's if he's more modern a more modern Muslim where oh he doesn't mind if his wife doesn't cover as long as you go to holiday functions for example so he may not even notice that she's not making the five prayers it depends on the level of the person's practice though yeah there's a

there's a few factors well Nella your story has been incredible and I'm so encouraged at your peace that you found in Jesus. Keep going. You're on the right path. Keep your study up. I I love your spirit and I love the fact of your heart to share to help other women and other people see the truth about Jesus and the dangers of Islam as well. So, thank you so much. You're welcome. It's my pleasure.