Rob Lowe Reveals The Last Voice He Wants To Hear Before He Dies | The Way I Heard It with Mike Rowe

[Music] Thank you for doing this. Oh yeah, thank you! I’d go anywhere just to listen to your voice. Oh, come on, don’t make it weird. Um, I gotta—I got to tell you something. I got a Rob Lowe story. I’m only going to tell one because I got the one, but I think you’ll appreciate it. It’s two years ago. I’m in Tahoe; actually, I’m on Fallen Leaf Lake. Have you ever been? I know where it is; it’s right next to the big lake, and it’s great. I got a buddy with a cabin up there. I

get up in the morning and I take the big walk. You know, I walk every morning—sometimes 7, sometimes 10. I'm going all the way around the lake. All right, so I'm out there; I'm about—I don’t know—six miles in. I mean deep, deep, deep in the woods, and I got my phone with me and my headphones. So I download some podcasts, right? And I, let’s see, who’s on Rogan? Well, it was an old one; you’d been on there a couple of years earlier. But I start listening to you and Joe Rogan get me through this walk.

It’s a great conversation, but it gets to the end of it and you start talking about your podcast. I’m like really interested in this because he’s asking the questions that I would have asked. Yes, for sure. It’s great about Joe. Terrific, right? So I’m really into the conversation, and it’s been going on for a couple of hours. I look up and I’m on a straightaway; it’s a path, and about 150 feet in front of me is a bear—a big bear—and he’s running toward me as I’m listening to you talk to Joe Rogan. This is amazing!

So amazing. You know that puckering feeling? Like I immediately forgot my Boy Scout training. I did not make myself big. I did not make myself noisy. I turned and I ran. Okay, and you made yourself wet. I made—I didn’t have to, man. It just happened! So I’m running through the woods of Lake Tahoe; a bear is chasing me, and I’m listening to you, okay? Now you’re going to love this. I run as fast as I can, and I run for maybe 30 seconds, and I turn around and the bear is about as far from me

as he was when I started running, but still just galloping along. I’m like, “God, this is just not good! The altitude—I’m gasping for breath,” and you’re going on and on about your new podcast because I don’t have time to take the earphones out. So I come to a little curve in the path and I take a hard right, and then I get behind a tree and I just stand there, still. And I’m thinking, you know, their eyesight’s not so good, but I know they can smell anything. Is this thing just going to follow me right

behind the tree? My heart's pounding; you’re going on and on. I peek behind the tree, and the bear just jogs by, and I realize he wasn’t really running; he was just kind of galloping, right? And I realize in that moment, he wasn’t chasing me; he was just out for a run—just like you, just like me—just out for a run. And I’m just standing there behind the tree, listening to you ask Joe Rogan for advice on your podcast as this bear vanishes in the distance. That’s amazing! I can’t imagine that anyone else on the planet has

ever had that experience but you. Well, it gets weirder. That night, back in the cabin, I get a phone call from a guy named Aram. I don’t know if you know Aram, but you know some people he knows. Yes, and apparently your son is turning 30. The message says, “I hate to ask you this, Mike, but Rob Lowe's son is having a birthday, and he's a big fan of Deadliest Catch. Do you think maybe you could send him a little birthday shout-out?” This is the day you’ve been chased by a bear. That night, that night!

So in the span of 12 hours, I swear to God, I’m listening to you, and I didn’t seek you out. I’m just trying to listen to something on my walk; that’s right. But it’s you, and then hours later you ask somebody who asks somebody, and the next day I’m making a birthday video for your boy. And you were the hit of the video; you were the hit—the hit of the video! That is really some weird kismet, dude! I feel like now most of the things that happen to me that feel apocryphal and powerful, I never

know it when it’s happening. It’s only years later when you look back and you go, “Well, that was weird.” Yeah, this was weird in real time! In real time, it’s hard to deny that, right? You go, “Something is at work here.” I’m glad that those roads, those paths, those bear paths led us to this moment. You were there for me, man. I thank you. And you’re welcome, and you really are welcome. Thank you. Um, speaking of your boy, man, I was just—we don’t really do much prep for this thing, but I went on Instagram, and

bro, he’s serious, isn’t he? Dude, funny! Both of them! Both of them! Explain what’s going on on Instagram with your sons because I think it’s a terrific model for fathers and sons. Every—well, look, it started with my youngest son—not the oldest who had the birthday. That’s Matthew, who’s the fisherman, right? Outdoorsman. He’s the... Outdoorsman, hardcore outdoorsman, and he works in finance right now. Um, so he's got like a real job. Mhm. My young son's got a phony baloney job like me, you know, in showbiz—puts on makeup and acts for a living. So, but sadly, he

had John Owen. John Owen, he had—he's quite good, he's quite good, but he had so much more potential. Mike, you have to understand, he was the youngest intern at the Eli Broad Stem Cell Laboratory at UCF, University of California, San Francisco. During his high school tenure, that got him into Stanford. He graduated with straight A's and then comes out and tells me he wants to be an actor. Oh my God! And I just wanted to kill him and myself. Forget the tuition that I could have saved. Yeah, he could have gone to Jamba every day

and waited by the phone. I didn't need to pay a tuition to Stanford to be an actor. Um, but in the meantime, he would just eviscerate me on social media. He's a very funny kid, and he would just work me over. I would post something that I thought was cool, and he would just come up with some comment, just shellacking me. And it would make me laugh because I love a good joke, even at my own expense—maybe even more so at my own expense. What makes it so good is that your boy understands the power

of brevity, right? Yes, he's not going on; he's not telling big shaggy dog stories. There, you should look at this, Chuck. They're just cutting now. In the boy's defense, so cutting—the old man does post some, I mean, some beefy kinds of pictures. Use it or lose it, bro! I'm 60 years old! Come on, there's a lot of topless stuff. The great irony is I spent 15 years of my career going, “They just want me to take my shirt off,” and now you're like, “And I'm like, can I take my shirt off? Because, like, it ain't

going to last forever.” Have you seen that? Have you seen Matthew McConaughey on, uh, I guess it's Letterman, talking about, oh, being direct? I think it was—I forget the movie—but no, it's Matt Damon talking about Matthew McConaughey and how every moment just, uh, is an opportunity. Oh, Mr. Soderbergh, I was thinking maybe about taking—be a good time to take our shirts off. Shirts off! I like the way we've turned Matthew McConaughey into Bill Clinton, Jon. Right? All my impersonations are adjacent to the same four people. What's your strongest? My strong Clinton's pretty good. Um, my

Clinton is pretty strong. Um, my Arnold—but a lot of people do Arnold. Yeah, but mine I think is the kind of thing where, you know, everybody is thinking about that and going like, “Okay, it's going to work, it's really going to work.” So, that's solid. Yeah, we had a time, remember? There may have been some beverages involved. It was a long time ago, but for some reason I realized I could kind of sound like Sammy Davis Jr., just a little bit—more than a little bit if I wanted to, man! And also, you've got the low

mouth going. I dig it, he digs it. Hey man, I can get in on this too! We were—I got a great Sammy! Well, you'll be the judge of whether it's great. Yeah, I mean, is it as good as the bear story with the boy and the—I don't know. That's so unique. I came in hot; I set the bar! You set the bar; I'm going to try to up you with Sammy Davis. No bear stories from Rob Lowe? No, no bear stories. We have our title! I did! I starred in a movie with a bear—Hotel New

Hampshire. Kinski in a bear suit? That was a stupid idea. Most beautiful woman in the world—put her in a bear suit? That'll work! D. John Irving? Yes, I mean, good for a book, not good for a movie. Bombed! So, Sammy Davis Jr.? Yeah, man, it's the '80s. Um, my agent represents me, but also Liza Minnelli, who you know I mean—it's Liza Minnelli! And so I'm supposed to go, “Bernie, by any chance, it's Michael Black.” Wow! I go to dinner with Liza, Andrew McCarthy during St. Elmo's Fire, and I think my girlfriend at the time, and

we're having dinner at Spago—of course you are! And right? And at the end of the dinner she goes, “Let's go back to Sammy's,” and I thought, “Is she talking about Sammy Davis Jr.? Wait, what? We might go to Sammy Davis Jr.'s house tonight?” And 1980—I'm going to say it's '83, okay? 1983. And we go—it's one of the biggest houses I've ever seen. At that point, he had it lit like it was um, Stalag 17. There were more floodlights, I—I don't know what he was expecting, but there—I—I swear to God, it was like illuminated in like

a prison. Mhm. And we went in, and they were watching a movie, and we kind of waited for him to come out from watching the movie. And then he says, “You want to play?” I do. I'm going to have you do the play, Sammy, and you say, “What's he say?” You say, “Let's shoot some pool, kid.” Say that! “Hey, kid, you want to shoot some pool?” And I say, “I'm terrible at pool.” And you say, “How good can I be? I'm blind in one eye.” It's great. I listen to him singing—uh, obviously, “The Candyman” is

a big—but... He, the whole album, growing up with that kind of sort of, uh, generational ubiquity, right? He was before we came of age, and so I always kind of knew of him, but I never ever sat down and really listened. He's one of the greatest singers. I just got a vinyl for my... So he had a huge album that came out the year that I was born, in 1964, and I had a friend—really thoughtful gift—got me all of the albums that one would want to listen to from 1964. Oh, that's terrific! And one of

them is Sammy's. Yeah, and I haven't read... I haven't listened to it yet, but based on this, I'm going to listen to it this weekend. Listen to, in particular, "I Gotta Be Me." It just gets higher and higher but wider and wider. He was just such a master, just a little guy, and he danced so well. It actually drove me; listening to that recently, life now is a two-screen experience, right? Like, every single thing is a portal into something else. You hear a story, and you go here, and you go there. Well, as soon as

I heard him sing "I Gotta Be Me," I hopped online, and apparently he had something to do with the Church of Satan, which I didn't know. Well, isn't that something? Google it! Google Sammy Davis Church of Satan. Now it's the internet, so Satan is in the—Satan, the big S, old scratch, Beelzebub, Satan Liebenowitz. I... yeah. Are you sure it's not Satin, which was like a designer of the time? Sorry, Satin. He loves Satin! He liked Satin! Mike, isn't that what is... isn't it Santa? Why Sammy Davis Jr. joined the Church of Satan? I know, what...

what was he hoping to get out of that? Candy Man? Just some candy! Some candy! Old Scratch has really got the sugar. When, uh... when we were chatting before we were rolling, you told me how much you were enjoying *The Floor*. Yeah, I've seen two episodes—super addicting! It's clear that you are, although you're a very good actor and I suppose you could act like you were enjoying it, right? Um, so several questions: um, when you're hosting a show, yeah, are you acting like a host? Are you doing... are you... are you trying to draw from

other great hosts, or are you... or are you you? No, he... and by the way, the greatest host of all time for anything was Dick Clark. Agreed! And I had the honor of doing an episode of this—tells you how long ago it was—the $10,000 Pyramid. Wow! Yeah, with Dick Clark. I was 15, and like Ty Cobb said, "It ain't bragging if you've done it." I went to the Pyramid round every time and won. Um, nice! And, uh, so I love game trivia, and I love game shows, and I love Dick Clark. But the way I

look at hosting is it's like doing... I sometimes do a one-man show when I have the time—it's like doing my one-man show while I'm being an air traffic controller. Yeah, because the notion of keeping track of who has won what, what the storytelling is vis-a-vis the game, how much money is currently on the table, how much time is on the—all of the sort of making the trains run on time is sort of one part of my brain, and the other part of my brain is the entertainer, trying to be funny, keep it light, or looking

for a moment, looking for a moment knowing when to bring the gravitas and make it real, right? And knowing when to let some air out of the tire. That's the fun— the broadcaster part! Yeah, because I don't get to do any of that as a straight actor. By the way, on his Instagram, there's a picture of him doing this one-man show, and his boy's caption simply says, "John Stamos would have sold it out," because there are a few empty seats—four empty seats in the top row. So it's that. And there's another one where you're drenched

in sweat; you've just come from some workout and you take this selfie. It's at my house, in my home gym, and Johnny says something like, "Ah, the art of subtly posing in front of your wall of Emmy nominations!" Exactly! Yeah. Oh, so good! Brutal! He's a good boy, though. I love... he's funny too. I love that show! *Unable, Unstable* is streaming now. Our second season on Netflix. Um, our co-star, Lamorne Morris, just won an Emmy yesterday. Oh yeah, that's great! I love doing comedy. I'm blessed that I get a chance to do both. I'm glad—listen,

I'm blessed that I get to dabble. I'm a dabbler! You are! Can't hold a job! You know, Renaissance Man. Yeah, journeyman. But I love doing this! I love my podcast! Literally, we've done... like these numbers are going to sound small to you. You've been doing this since 2018, I think? I think we're way over a hundred episodes now, and they go by quick, man! They go by quick! And I look back at the people that I've had a chance to talk to. Jeff Bridges is the current one, and that's... I mean, to talk to Jeff

Bridges? I mean, I could talk to Jeff Bridges about the first ten years of his career! And how about this? I talked to Jeff Bridges for an hour and a half, and I didn't even get to *The Big Lebowski!* Wow! Right? Well, because the... Old man's out now, which I assume you're watching? Yes, which is just... look, I don't... we don't have many celebrities on this podcast, mostly because I don't... I don't really know how to talk to them. For that reason, right? You can't sum up... it makes no sense to look at your resume

and start asking you about you. And by the way, probably isn't a question you haven't been asked, and I don't want to be that guy either. But do you think about that when Jeff is sitting across from you, somebody like that? Or like... I had... I’m like a music nerd, so I had like Lindsey Buckingham from Fleetwood Mac. All right, that's... and I'm like, can he log? I'm like a yacht rock guy, right? So I get like Kenny... you said that out loud, by the way. We're actually recording this. You know what? I know I'm

here. I'm bringing... I'm wearing it as a badge of honor. I know it makes me a national joke to say that I am the king of yacht rock, but come on, man! So I'm with you. I had Lindsey on, and it's all I could do to... I mean, I went track by track. Or a guy like Jeff and talk about this movie and that movie. And I mean, for me, I just want to find the deep cut to talk about, right? Like there's a reason I didn't get to Big Lebowski—I realized it's like everybody asking

everybody, right? Yeah. Like, you want that to be the first question they'd ask him on Entertainment Tonight. I mean, that's what I was getting at before when I asked you the difference between impersonating a host. And by the way, nothing wrong with that. I impersonated Dick Clark for a while because I didn't know of a better example, sure. But of course, who did Dick Clark impersonate and when did he stop doing that and start being, you know, start being Dick Clark? That's right, very interesting. I mean, because hosting is not acting. Well, I tell you

what I see to be contemporary is—I see it with Tom Brady on Fox. Yeah, and Tom, when you think about Tom Brady, the greatest of all time, I think everybody knows one of his greatest things was he was coachable. Like, he was in there, knew the play... he was a coach's dream. Yeah, I don't think that's serving him well here because we need to be ourselves; that's the lesson. Yep. And so I can just see Tom coming into this. You know, he's never done it before; he's listening to the quote-unquote experts. I want to go,

"Bro, you're Tom Brady, should be Tom Brady!" Because you can—because with all the best intentions, it's... I can't—I’m making this up; I don't know any of this to be true, by the way. But I can see, based on my experience in these types of things, where it's like, "So listen, in the first quarter let's make sure we focus on this and that..." and so, "and that, we're going to build a narrative. Like in the second quarter, we're going to have a package where we talk about the defense, but let's let the defense establish your..." and

the next thing you know, you don't know what to say. You don't want to obsess on the details at the expense of the larger thing, right? That's the... that's the weird... I'm just... I'm so interested in hosting not because I am kind of one—but because it's... it's not broadcasting really, and it's not acting. No, really, there are times when it's all just jammed together, but you... Des... Des described it right: you're the first, and you're actually a traffic cop with a sense of humor and hopefully some time, and a proper host, right? You know, it's

like, okay, this person's had enough to drink; they need to no longer be toasting. Let's move on to some... do you know what I mean? It's like all the stuff you would do at a party. "Oh, that person's been sitting in the corner; they seem nervous. I feel like they've got something to give though. Let me see if I can..." What? It's... it really is just an art. There's so much more to it than you think, if you're doing it in the fashion that I—the Dick Clarks want to do. I mean, there are plenty of

hosts just to go up and read a prompter or whatever. What did you learn from Dick Clark as a guest on Pyramid once upon a time? Oh, I remember he screwed up my introduction seven times, seven consecutive times. I'll never forget, as long as I live, it's like that famous voice that's in my head: "Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Rob Lowe," and then I would come out and somebody would whisper to him—they go, and he would be quiet, go, "Reset lighting cue, music..." "Ladies and gentlemen, from the new ABC TV series, A New Kind of

Family, Rob Lowe..." Reset lighting cue, music... "Ladies and gentlemen, he's just a tall drink of water; he looks like he's six..." Rob Lowe. At this point, you gotta think, it's unb... just with it. It was... no, but he was deadly serious. And what it was, was like he had zero shame about... I mean, each introduction, he sold it as if it were the first. Yeah, it never affected him. It was like water off a duck's back. You wouldn't... it was... I was like, that was unbelievable. He was just like a complete pro. That he was

able to let the moment pass and live in the next one. He was so, uh, kind to me. Yeah, I met him; one of the nicest guys ever. Kind of notoriously, right? It was suspicious; it was suspicious to me. You know, I kind of spent a lot of time around the edges of this industry and scrupulously avoided, uh, well, the path that you took. Not that it was offered to me, but I decided early on I was going to try and make a living in the periphery. And this I got hired to host a show

called *No Relation.* It was on FX and, uh, it was through Dick Clark Productions. Right, so Dick oversaw the whole thing, and we filmed over at, uh, where they do *The Price Is Right,* CBS; CBS Television City, in fact. I had Bob Barker's dressing room! Come on! Bob was shooting Monday through Friday or whenever he felt like it. Yeah, never on weekends; we only shot on weekends. So I would go into his dressing room on the weekends, and I'd put on my little outfit, and I was hosting a show called, uh, *No Relation.* You would

actually like this: five family members sit next to one another and agree to be questioned by three B-list celebrities. One of the family members is an impostor; the real family member is back there, but one of them is no relation to the others. The B-list celebrities have to try and figure out which one is not related through a series of questions. My job, of course, is to host the whole thing. And, um, sidebar: it would still be on the air if the celebrities weren't so damn stupid. They simply— we gave away all our fabulous vacations

literally in the first week! Everybody got a grand prize to Mexico; everybody won! Everybody wins! In fact, Tom Frank, who was the EP on the show, he was so frustrated with the celebrities, he like renamed it *Hello, Mexico!* and he started casting like Chinese people to sit in a Black family to give them a hint. They still couldn't figure it out! They thought he was trying to trick them. That's not good; that's not good, not good, daddy, not good, daddy! Anyway, "Pour Some Sugar on Me." So Dick walks up to me after, uh, maybe the

third taping, and he said, "Mike, your instincts are good. I really don't have any notes. Everything's going great. We're giving away a lot of prizes, but that's not your fault. One thing, though: when you walk out and say, 'Hi, everybody, I'm Mike Rowe. Welcome to *No Relation*,' you might not want to say 'hi, everybody' because what I've learned—and you can take this for what it's worth, Mike—this is heaven right now. He says, 'what I've learned is that even though you're broadcasting, and even though you're very aware that you're talking to a couple of million people,

and even though the people are probably aware in the reptilian part of their brain that they're part of an audience, that's not why they're watching you. They're watching you because you're talking to them. So the word 'everyone' is not really the right word. Just say 'hi.' Amazing!' And I felt like I had been touched. Touched by the hand of God! It's one of the—you got the 11th commandment right there: there is no 'everyone.' It's just a guy sitting across from you, talking to him. That's so amazing! I mean, it's no "bear in the woods," but

it's good. No, it's amazing! You having, um, Bob Barker's dressing room? Now that was something! Can I tell you? I was hoping you would! So, um, there was a time in the '80s where they were shooting a lot of movies in Chicago, and there—there's no real television studios there. Oprah hadn't built anything yet; she didn't exist yet. But there were these—oh look! Someone's here! That's got to be the boy! How's it going? Yay! Killing it, man! Hey! How are you, Mike? Nice to meet you! Nice to meet you! Guys, like, in the middle of recording?

No, come on! We're definitely recording! Everybody, take a load off. Tell him a little story. Um, this is Matthew, who you did the birthday wishes for. Oh, fantastic! That's my oldest. Matthew—pleasure! Pleasure to meet you! It's a pleasure to meet you! Yeah, I'm sorry we don't have a proper chair! Guess what! And his—the company that he works for owns Dick Clark Productions! When did that happen? There's Kismet going on around this conversation, and I was just telling a Dick Clark story! We were just doing 10 minutes of Dick Clark Productions! No way! I work in

the Dick Clark building, where the office is, where Dick Clark Productions is, over on, like, Olive, North Crescent, where he moved to Beverly Hills. Oh, they moved to Beverly Hills! He works at Dick Clark Productions? What? Isn't this bizarre? Honestly, man, I'm glad he wasn't here for the opening story, 'cause that's just too weird! Well, Bear would walk in—when you listen to this later, your head's going to explode! It's a bear story! Hey! Knock! It was a [ __ ] bear coming in, and you're in it! You're actually in the story! Now I'm really going

to have to go back. Yeah, you're going to have to! That's called— that's what we call a tease, Matthew, in the business. Just a tease. Anyway, why don't you just sit on... The sofa there, you're making me nervous, perched up there on the, uh, the—yeah, that's a—there you go, put that anywhere, fantastic. So, I'm in Chicago. Yeah, so, uh, you have your, uh, um, Bob Barker's dressing room. I'm in Chicago, mid-80s. These little weird quasi-TV studios are tiny, sort of decrepit, and we're shooting class there. We built the apartment set in or whatever, and there's

a dressing room, and it's disgusting. It kind of looks like a waiting room in a railroad station from 1955. Do you know what I mean? Like those kind of couches—naugahyde, fake leather, stained and bowed—like so many asses have sat in it for so many years, right? And I—I—I was young and probably drinking still, and I think it was six in the morning. It was very early. I'm asleep on the couch, and there's... "Who are you?" And I look up; it's Marlin Perkins from Wild Kingdom. Wild Kingdom! That's amazing! I am in his dressing room. He

thought he was shooting that day; he wasn't. Not being startled out of a hungover sleep by Marlin Perkins is one of my favorite weird memories. You must have thought you were being hunted for a moment! I literally... and then the other thing, while Jim and I watched from the shrub. And then the other very quick thing is—not to say that sometimes I maybe fought below my weight class in my dating life—but I remember trying to impress a girl and said I would take her anywhere on a trip, and she said she wanted to go to

Omaha because she wanted to see the Wild Kingdom. Oh, that's adorable! Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom! Yeah, yeah! I was on a date at the Ponderosa with a woman who asked me what the "PE" stood for on the chair, and we're at the Ponderosa, and so I just told her honestly, tried not to be too judgy. Yeah. And on the ride home, it started to rain, and I had my wipers on intermittent, and she was sitting there next to me watching the wipers every five or six seconds clean off the windshield, and she says to

me, "How does the window know when there's enough water on it to trigger the wiper like that?" And at that point, I realized, you know, you're going to have some fun with her. You bet I am! In every way I could, in every way that I could! So, I just explained that I had a friend in the automotive industry, and he had developed a sensor, and it was still in the prototype stage, but I had the car that actually allowed this to happen. And she became incrementally fascinated with me, and one thing led to the

next. But the ultimate success of that evening—I walked back to that spectacular lie and her childlike innocence and wanting to know—and I'm not proud of it, but, you know, in the scheme of things, I guess people have done worse. But, yeah, I lied to the girl, and she found me fascinating for it. I had a—I once was on a date; it was going to be a double date, but the other couple didn't show up. And the girl said, "Why isn't Johnny..." you know, whatever. And so I said, "Well, Johnny's studying for the bar." She goes,

"Oh, I didn't know there was a test to be a bartender." God bless him! Listen, it's—see, we collect stories. That's what we do. Do you keep a diary? I've never have; I should. I've tried countless times. I probably have ten amazingly bound books with one entry in them. Isn't that interesting? I resolved to start keeping one the same week I decided that I could no longer ignore social media. There's a tape in me somewhere telling Jay Leno I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than go on Facebook. I never sent a tweet, never. Well,

I started doing that instead of keeping a diary and wound up writing, I don't know, probably 400,000 words on social media over the years! But I always did it, you know, with—it's like, you know what? I'm going to do this instead of keep a journal. I'm not sure in hindsight it was a good trade. In fact, I'm in some trouble right now. Chuck, did you know that? What'd you do now? With what? Well, with Mary. Um, but because I posted something on Facebook yesterday that I thought was really funny. Oh, I know! Oh, okay. Yeah,

I mean, yeah. Am I on a somebody's show who's been canceled and I don't know about it? Possibly. I don't think so. I don't think it's going to happen, but Matthew's really—my sons, Matthew and Johnny, are really good judges. I run of that! Matthew, we're using you right now! Okay, so here's what happened: Mike, here's a new game show—Mike Rowe, stay or go—the floor show him the floor! Now have you been following these crazy memes that are going around with this Springfield thing? The best thing ever! Following them? Following them! I have never laughed harder

in my life. Okay, so it's not just us! They're eating the dogs! They're eating the cats! Have you seen the ones where they changed it to like "Eat the cat, eat the cat"? Have you seen the guy that's got— the whole sort of, uh, Trinidad Caribbean Rift going. Love that! The greatest! It’s the—it’s making me laugh. Look, well, Mike did the Barber Shop version of that. So amazing! I’ll show it to you in a second, but I just want to say it’s not a political podcast, by the way; nothing about it is political. No, nothing

about that joke is political. But what’s funny to me—or like, what’s really sweet—is I think to be reminded of the level of creativity that’s out there, yes, that comes from people that you’ve never heard of. This is shockingly great, man! It’s—it like reinvigorated my appreciation for the creative mind. I had the exact same conversation. I got a dog named Freddy. I used to do this thing called Fridays with Freddy, where I’d post stuff in spring thieves. That’s a how you get that Harmony cat with a high harmony with cat, and you could be in the

Eagles' C. Oh, and you—Jesus! So that’s how you do it. We sang in a barbershop quartet in another life, yeah. The podcast—is that true? It is true! In high school, yeah. Did you have the boater hats? We didn’t go that far. I was going to say, well, tell them. Tell them our name! Well, we went pretty far. We were called Semiformal—F-O-U-R-M-A-L—’cause we’re terribly clever, you guys! And we wore tuxedos and tennis shoes. See! I see you’re edgy too! Very edgy, very edgy, but still accessible. We killed the nursing home circuit! They loved us! But anyway,

yeah, the, uh, sponsors on the podcast get unauthorized jingles sung in four-part harmony because I just think it’s—that's amazing! Because nobody else does! That’s such an extra for them! People are so angry with me! That’s how we ask people to subscribe and like us as well. We have like seven different songs at the end of every episode; there’s a different one. I mean, I can’t tell if it’s clever or tragic, but this thing, man, people are just like, “What’s the beef?” Well, the beef—he's out of tune! He’s pitchy! No, they’re actually very complimentary about all

that, I think. I think what I misdiagnosed was the degree to which people were enjoying all the other memeing. I thought everybody was in on this joke because my whole news feed is filled with nothing but this, but of course it’s filled with nothing but that because I went looking for it. Well, no, you—no, no! I’ll tell you exactly the other reason why you have a dog! Yeah, so it knows that! So I have dogs, and so they feed me pet memes. And the basis for me, of all of it that makes me laugh, are

the—you know, it’s the thing of the pets when they hear that there might be pets being eaten—the side-eye thing! The side-eye thing, it just makes me—and I’m getting it, not through a political prism, but through the animal prism. Yeah, it so doesn’t even occur to me that it is a political thing, but obviously I can see how easily and maybe truthfully people could construe everything as political, obviously, today, and everything is magnified here. But I just—my instincts are usually pretty good, especially on my own page. You know, I mean, I don’t have a ton, but

there’s six, seven million people. Would you let me post a barbershop quartet version of that with one of our dogs? Uh, no. Oh no! Why? If you want to err on the side of being safe these days, don’t even touch anything remotely political. Ah, but what makes it political? What makes that—? But is it political? Because Trump said it? Yeah, that’s the only reason it’s political, and it may not be true! Right. True! Well, if we—if we’re to believe everything that’s currently out, it is not true that they’re eating “quote-unquote” cats and dogs in Springfield.

How about this? How about I grew up—my dad was the tennis pro in Springfield. Springfield, Ohio? Yep, my dad was the—my dad was the tennis pro at the Springfield Country Club. That’s a lot of seemingly impossible coincidences! A lot—a lot of weird coincidences going on here right now! I’m troubled by something your boy just said. What’d he say? If you want to—if you want to play it safe, you’re an outdoorsman, you’re a fisherman! Risk is something you must assume simply to enjoy the life you have. Why? Why would anyone want to play it safe? he

asked to no one in particular. No, I like that! Got him! Got him quiet! You see how quiet he got? No, it’s my thing. Um, yeah, it’s your thing! I mean, I think that inherently being in the outdoors and enjoying nature—I think they said the average kid spends—today—spends less than like 10 minutes a day outside. It’s a—you know, it’s a world of being on your screens and playing video games. So I think that’s inherently dying anyway. Yeah, but why do you want to play it safe? Oh, to succeed in any form of career these days!

So—and here we have the eternal struggle of our time! Right! Right. We have to somehow figure out what to do with risk. And I mentioned to you off-air, sitting right where you are now, yesterday was the aerial photographer for Deadliest Catch. I haven’t seen him in 20 years. He just reached out, and I invited him over, and we had this amazing conversation, and a lot of it had to do with— The necessity to take chances and the willingness to assume risk, and how really something has changed today because we've so elevated safety and we so

value carefulness—but we still aspire to success in all of its forms. But we seem we're just so careful about taking chances, and I wonder what a man of your experience might have to say about the business of taking chances from time to time. Well, I don't consider myself a thrill seeker or an adrenaline junkie, but I am always barraged with people saying, "You do that? What, are you crazy? Oh my God, I don't even like you!" I mean, when do you re— and like, I'm just living! Like, I'm helisking, I'm big wave surfing, I'm scuba

diving, you know, I do it all! But that's like just living life, right? And like I went to Jackson Hole recently; I was like, "Can I get 100,000 vertical feet in one day?" They have an app; I did! And so, but that's the way I'm wired. I'm wired to do stuff like that. But there are things I won't do; I don't want to jump out of a plane. Don't ask me why. But I will jump off of a cliff into water or a bridge—hm, like at what height? I mean, I have my limits. But I'll

jump off of stuff that people would not jump off of. But the notion of a plane—probably because I'm such a bad packer—I figure I would... I don't trust anybody to pack. Pack your own chute. Pack your own chute. Um, go with the Golden Knights like Mike did; that was exciting! But you're so—you're on the guy's back! First time? I'm not doing it. Matthew's done it; of course he's done it. One and done was enough for me—so me too! But I've never jumped out of a plane where there wasn't a camera pointed at me. I have

a whole different risk tolerance and risk profile when I'm working—oh, same! You put a camera on me, I'm liable to do anything! Actually, I know that I can't trust myself. Yeah, if you put a camera on me, I cannot trust myself! What is with that? Why do we become bulletproof when a camera's pointing at us? Because the juice becomes worth the squeeze—because film is forever; it's just that simple! Yeah, and I'm like, when I play in golf tournaments, I want the gallery. I like crowds, cameras—I want that! It's when I'm alone that I play my

worst golf. Interesting—the crowd makes you better. Yeah, just—it's like, you know, I'm a performer! Yeah, the light goes on, and I know what to do! Well, except you see it in reality shows too, right? You see people who are not performers—oh, that's—so back to the floor, the thing that I just probably did not anticipate is that regular people, contestants in the hot, bright light of the set and the television and the clock—oh man, I have seen them kind of fold, melting. And sometimes it's the most entertaining! And I feel terrible, but it is the most

entertaining! I literally had—it was a picture; it was '80s rock duos. Mhmm. And so, and it was a picture. So you couldn't have the actual people; you had to guess, and it was a picture of a Hall and a bowl of oats. Okay? And this per—literally, this was like, "Um, Hallway B, oat Ali, wheat—Ali, wheat—um, hall oat—B way?" Like it went on! And so you just never know. It is interesting because, you know, you can't judge the human condition by performance under that level of scrutiny and circumstance for sure. But my God, I mean, it's

a deep well online! If you go down game show bloopers, I'm sure you have. I mean, did the fam— the famous one really did happen—right? The game—yeah, that did, because for years it was debunked, remember? It was debunked forever; it was a wives' tale, it never happened, and then recently they found the footage! And that's not an AI foot; that's real footage! That'd be in the butt! Bob—the greatest! Just to see Bob Eubanks, like, his expression! He goes through the five stages of grief in about three seconds, right? Everything just runs out—the blood, the expression—and

he just hangs his head. He doesn't know where to look; he doesn't know what to do. There's no play. Let me ask you a question—Paul Lynde, Hollywood Squares—mhmm. You win a cookie, win a cook! By the way, I'm obsessed with doing the Paul Lynde story as a movie! Oh wow, 'cause you know the [ __ ] was going on! Well, based on your turn in "Liberace: Behind the Candelabra," right? Isn't that a good comp? It's a companion piece! What's the great—wait, oh I—you—I can do it! Paul Lynde—yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah—go ahead, go ahead, do it!

Smell like—ah, I think I—I’ll cut that out; I don't think so. I'll bleep it. What did he—did he get the questions in advance? Yes, of course! Yeah, yeah—yeah, for sure, right? For sure! Yeah, I do a version of that called North Hollywood cubes, and that's what we do, right! Swear to God! Really? Yeah! Mhmm! So it's for—'cause they're too good and too quick, correct? Yeah, yeah, everybody gets them into events. Everybody gets— Uh-uh, number two for the reboot of that—uh, I forget who actually hosted it. Whoopi! Whoopi, that's right. She bought it. She hosted Hollywood

Squares. Yeah, and Alec Baldwin was in the Paul Lynde center square. Yeah, well, I came close; they called me back a couple of times and I asked that question, and they were like, "Well, of course," they get all of it. But as a kid, I remember watching that show, and there were so many great things about Hollywood Squares. That was the best show at making you feel like a fly on the wall at a party you wanted to be at. Yes, you wanted to be one of those squares. I just felt like I was around

them, just watching. I guess I never said, "Who's Cliff Arat?" Don’t know. Gray area. I mean, like that character—Charlie Weaver. Wasn't he Charlie Weaver or Cliff Arat? I don't understand any of it, but he had the bow tie. He sat there as if we were supposed to know. Upper right? I don't understand. I never understood that. And he looked like an old man, but he wasn't. I never got that part. Well, it's back to the Sammy Davis thing. There's a very weird kind of fame that isn't directly connected to your specific experience of it—like Kitty

Carlisle, there's another one—Charles Nelson Reilly. Oh, hudo from L-ville. Come on! I know Charles Nelson Reilly. Yeah, but as a kid watching those things, all I knew was everybody around me knows who those people are. I don't. I was too young. So it's just that feeling of like, "Man, I'm not quite in on this." Match Game was great too! I was just thinking that; that was my favorite. What's the best Match Game? I'm always trying to, like, remember—like he didn’t want to put it in her... blank? Whatever. My favorite, it's really a sweet one too:

the woman was from South Carolina, and Gene Rayburn says, "Uh..." and he had that mic—remember? About a yard long! It's just like a... tiny, but a yard long, like a pointer. It looked like a point! And he would hold it with his fingers like a little T-Rex thing. So weird! Really weird! But the question we all remember: "My 40 years later." Yeah, he’s probably buried with that thing. Yeah, um, Superman is so tired these days. How tired is he? That all he does is lean against the lamp post, looking at his big red... blank? Like,

what it was? And the woman says, "ass!" And everybody's like, "What are you talking about?" And then she makes this sign on her chest—"his ass!" You know, you know, "his ass!" That’s the right answer. It’s the right answer! And that’s how she did it. It was just kind of innocent; she wasn’t trying to be crappy about it. Those are the greatest! See, that's the stuff! So what is it? So, here you are, you've got this show. It's a bona fide hit, right? You're back for season whatever it is—two and three. Did they pick up both

at once? No, they’re not screwing around. Yeah, when they do, that's how you know, right? They’re not messing around. Dirty Jobs—we did three, shelved it for a year, came back, did a couple, and then they ordered thirty-nine. Wow, thirty-nine? Thirty-nine! How do you find thirty-nine dirty jobs? Well, that’s what you do. Well, we were doing three episodes, so really, the question is, you know, how do you find 100 or so? Fast! And the answer is the viewers. The viewers programmed that show. Totally programmed it! But this thing—uh, so why, why are you doing it, man?

I want to understand why you’re doing a game show, and I really want to understand why you’re doing your podcast. Okay, so here’s both of the same answer, because you know, a lot of people go, "Guys, you're 60 years old, but you seem so youthful," and blah blah. And I feel like what is the hallmark of a child? Curiosity! And I need to be curious in my life, and I need to learn. And I follow things that I'm interested in, however weird it may be—i.e., hosting a game show. If it’s something I’m curious about, if

it’s something that I feel like I’m gonna have fun doing, and if I feel like I'm gonna learn... and I don’t know anything about hosting a game show. Nothing. Zero! I mean, I don’t read a prompter. I don’t read prompters for a living. I don’t do any of it! So I'm—anytime I'm on a traditional movie set or TV set, just by virtue of how long I’ve been doing it, I will be the most experienced person there out of the two. And almost every time I walk on the set of the game show, I’m a rookie!

And I get to learn! I get to prove myself, and I get to—I might fall on my ass! There’s no guarantee. People might laugh at it! It might not work! And like, my adrenaline is up! So the podcast is that. I knew with my decades of relationships across all sectors that I could talk to people in a way that nobody else would be able to—like, my interview with Gwyneth Paltrow is going to be unlike anybody else’s interview with Gwyneth Paltrow, because I'll be able to say things like... Tell me about the time my wife taught

you to give a good one. I mean, you're not going to hear that from Oprah. No, but you're going to cut it into the open, I'll tell you that. Are you right? You're going to lead with that. So, and look, I don't always have that kind of insight, but again, or like Robert Downey Jr. Do you remember the time when we—same question? Yes, we were in, we were in, um, eighth grade history together, right? So we can talk about Sam O'Hai, right? When also, like, like Jeff Bridges, I—I don’t need to ask him the 1700

question about, you know, about the dude. My, my, for sure, for better or for worse, love him or not, my interviews are like Rogan's. And I mean, I'm not trying to compare myself to Rogan or Howard Stern. Those guys are the greatest. But what I think we do have in common is that there are interviews that only I could do. You're more Tom Brady—back to that comparison—you established yourself in an obvious and meaningful way in a pretty specific space, and now you're outside of your lane. Right? But you don’t—got to be you, right? Got to

be you. You got to be, as Sammy Davis would say, "You really, you got to be me, Daddy." You got—and that's what people want. They want authenticity. That is, you know, the takeaway I have about where entertainment is going is, you know, there used to be a time when mystery was a thing and was valued. Love it, don’t love it, argue about it, don’t argue about it. Mystery being valued has been replaced with authenticity being valued. Interesting. And the only way you can be authentic with people is to be known at your deepest level by

people. And the only way to do that is to approach everything through that prism. So you got to show your ass, too. You have to be vulnerable. You—it's like, I wrote two books, and they’re among my proudest things that I did. And if you’re going to write about yourself, you got to be honest. And that's so—the podcast, the books, the G—it’s a way to share who I really am with the H with the audience because today that is what people want. They don’t want mystery. They don’t. And you actually have the receipts. I don’t—I mean,

I would say maybe 90% of the memoirs that I’ve read were written prematurely. You just haven’t—you just haven’t lived enough yet. Yeah, you haven’t seen enough yet. I get it; your life's yours and it's interesting. But you know, especially in the celebrity world, when yours came out, I'm like, "Now you know what? That guy has permission to write whatever he wants." There were people that didn’t want me to write it in my life, who I respect, that felt like I hadn’t—like that book— "Which one are we talking about? Stories I Only Tell My Friends." Yeah,

so that opened up the floodgate because the celebrity memoir thing was moribund; it was not happening. And people liked—and then that book worked, as at the same time Tina Fey's book worked. And then, so now we're living in a world where everybody is writing their memoirs. But back then, they were like, "You’re not even halfway through your life; you shouldn’t be doing it. You do it either when you’re done or when you’re cashing out for a check." But nobody in, in the middle of their life does this. I feel like I have stories to tell.

I feel like I have stories to tell now, and it worked. Yeah, but, but again, that's taking chances. Absolutely right. I mean, what publicist would say, "Go for it! Go ahead and tell all of it"? See, that's the—I wrestle with this too, especially in the reality space where you know you want to—the spectacle is going to sell, right? You know the train wreck, you know the head, you know all that, right? But that’s not really who you are. That's not the sum total of all the parts, you know, right? And so, like, was there pressure

from your publisher, I guess is my question, because I've been down that road a bit too—to push you further than you wanted to go, to reveal more than you wanted to reveal, or was the whole thing cathartic for you? It was cathartic. It was super cathartic. I had a—I’d never been more certain of how I wanted to tell the stories, and I knew that it's contingent. You've got to deliver on the expectation. So you can't be coy and do a bait-and-switch. A lot of people do—you realize this was nothing; it was all a snow job

or whatever. But there's a way to dish the dish in a way. David Niven did it great in the book, "The Moon’s a Balloon." That's—I haven't read that. It's—it was the very first classic; it was a revolutionary book. It sold and sold and sold and sold and sold and sold. I remember seeing it on my grandmother’s library as a kid: "The Moon’s a Balloon" by David Niven. And, you know, David Niven was a serviceable mid-level character actor, but he wrote this revolutionary (book). And that’s sort of the thing that people aspire to in that genre.

And so I wrote with—because what he did was he dished everything you wanted to know about all... Of his co-stars, but in a way where you never felt like he was telling tales out of school—or making them look bad, being overly provocative or exploitative. It was gossip, or gossipy, but it was so beautifully done. I was like, “I’m going to do it in that vein and see if I can.” And I really—I think, I think I think I did. I hope I’m not conflating my urbane, sophisticated English character actors, but I think it was David

Niven. Speaking of grand others, I was watching the Oscars. Streisand! Oh yeah, the Streisand. Streisand runs by David. That—now see, that was staged for sure, by the way. Really? I’m convinced. We need to get the producer to find out. But here’s why I’ve always thought it was staged: Firstly, streaking was a thing! It was all over the place; it was the hippest, coolest—it was in the zeitgeist. And the notion that Streisand shows up and they’re perfectly framed to not show something they didn’t want to. So you would either catch it and have stuff in the

frame you can't show, so you can’t use that angle, or you miss it altogether. But the notion that they caught it perfectly? I call [__] on it, and always have. Interesting. I feel, I think, in this moment right now, the way you must have felt when you just learned that the answers to the Hollywood Squares—there's no Santa Claus! The no Santa Claus! Also, also a big moment. Yeah, and a career ender for me. Sidebar: QVC—oh my God! Note to self: Never tell 2 million people about the time you realized there was no Santa Claus on

a Sunday morning, when everybody’s watching—2 days before Christmas—with their kids. Doesn’t go well. That does not go well. It was—ah, it’s so disappointing! I don’t think so. And my thought? He was so unfathomable, though—that was my point! He had such a great line, his shortcomings. Yeah, it’s a shame that he’s going to be remembered for his shortcomings, you know? It was all kind of so sh—like it wasn’t actory; it wasn’t broadcaster. It was kind of hosty, but it really was just a guy—seemed like, oh, you know, he handled that with—he knew his way around. And

you’ve got to ask yourself, how did he get there? Who—who—who missed the naked guy backstage, right? Yeah, and if he was—if he got in with his clothes on past security, all those levels of security, right? When he started taking his clothes off, nobody looked? Red flags! Red flags! Anybody? Complete [__]. I think you’re right. I think it’s—I think now we need to solve the Kennedy assassination. Let’s move on! That’s pretty—actually we’ve come pretty close to that, we’ve had a guest on here a couple times you might enjoy— a guy called Clint Hill. Oh, I know

the Secret Service riser, sure! Of course! He’s my neighbor! No way! Clint Hill? I met Clint Hill! His book is great, I read it! Which one? Five Presidents. Oh, the one—my travels with Mrs. Kennedy! Yeah, that's a good one. Terrific! Yeah, it’s great—terrific! It’s really great! Yeah, oh—I mean, he’s such a—he's 92 now! Wow! He’s 92? I, I, I just got to tell you this, man—I met him in a bar. I didn’t know who he was; he was an old man standing at the bar, ordering a drink, and I walked up next to him. A

bartender comes over, and this guy orders a “Clint.” The bartender says, “I’m not familiar with the Clint.” This old guy reaches in his pocket, pulls out a business card with a picture of a cocktail on it, and the instructions on how to make it, and it’s called the Clint. And he hands it to the bartender. It’s one of the coolest moves I’ve ever seen! No kidding? And the bartender says, “Thank you!” Now I’m sitting here watching this, so I can’t ignore that. You wouldn’t ignore that. No, I would not! So I said, “Excuse me, sir,

you strike me as a gentleman of some experience, who through time or perhaps discretion has determined precisely what it is he enjoys in this life." He says, "I am that man." And I said, “You also strike me as a gentleman who from time to time has encountered the sorts of frustrations that might lead a man in your position to streamline affairs and take the necessary steps to eliminate any potential miscommunications.” He, “I am that man!” No [__]. So we laugh, shake hands, I introduce myself. I go over, meet his wife, who—does he say, "Hi, I’m

Clint Hill," and does that ring a bell? Yet, that doesn’t ring a bell. Um, didn’t really know! Did not know, but it wasn’t like that—like, “Oh my God, yes!” Right? I hadn’t read his book. I sat down, wound up having dinner with he and his wife. And during the course of the meal, I learned that he was in the Secret Service, and then I learned that he guarded not one or two or three or four, but five presidents! This is all insane to me. I'm like, “God, I can’t—this is so...” We exchanged numbers, and I

just feel like I made a friend. But here’s the crazy part of the story, Rob: it’s the day before President’s Day! So I go home, and I’ve had a couple of Clints, to be honest. Which is not a terribly great drink; it doesn't taste great. It's like a Negroni, isn't it? It's a lot of Campari, a lot of Campari and vodka, and whatnot. Anyway, whatever. I was going to be sociable, and it's pink, which is just so weird for a James Bond character to be drinking a pink cocktail. Then I go home and I Google

him, and I get a photo of his book, "Five Presidents." I wrote a Presidents' Day post that basically said, "Look, as we toast our current president and all the past presidents, let's raise a glass—specifically, one filled with the Clint—to the author of 'Five Presidents.' It's a great book!" So, I post a picture of the book, tell the story I just told you about meeting him, and I post a picture of his business card. The next day, or maybe it was a day after, my publisher at Simon and Schuster calls me and says, "What have you

done?" I said, "I just told Clint's story." She said, "He's our author, and we now have orders for 20,000 new books!" Wow! So then his wife calls, and now we really become friends. I just sold 20,000 books after drinking a few Clints. Right? It's amazing! It's a weird, small, funny world, isn't it? And that’s why I still take stupid chances with these Facebook things; sometimes, whether it's a song or a post, you just never know. At the end of the day, truly, all we have are our spirits, we have our bodies, we have certain things,

but one of them is our instincts, and that's all we have. It's all we have. And you know, nobody B.S.s a thing. No one went to the Hall of Fame batting a thousand. Bet .300? You're going to the Hall of Fame. The difference between… I mean, my God, you're a baseball fan, right? Sure! Huge! I mean, I just think no sport better lends itself to statistics or life analogies, for sure. But just statistics—the distance of the 90 feet to first base. You think about the number of plays at first that go, "Big Bang!" Yeah, you

just think about that. I mean, it's amazing! It is amazing! There's so much math in baseball. Who's your team? Dodgers, all the way! Yeah, Shohei all the way! So, I met him. Oh, really? Tell me what your takeaway from this story is because I knew it was significant when it happened. So, I go into the clubhouse, and he was the only person there. He’s got the cut-off workout sweatpants on and then his full uniform at the top. I introduced myself, and he was perfectly nice. I said, "Would you mind if I take a selfie with

you?" His English is not great, but he knows; you know, does he know who you are? Hard to tell. Yeah, which is very strange for you. Well, you either know, or you don't know, right? But the in-between, I just don't know. So, we take the picture, and instead of just standing up for the photo… No, no, no! He gets fully dressed. He puts the socks on, he puts the stirrups on, he gets the pants, pulls them up, gets the belt, buckles the belt, walks across the room to get a new hat, puts the new hat

on, and then, and only then, does he pose for the selfie with me, which is on my Instagram page. Then I go out and sit in my seat, and I'm sitting with my friend who works for the Dodgers. He goes, "Hey, check this out." It's a text from Shohei— "Ask Rob if it would be okay if I also posted." Now you tell me: what superstar on planet Earth would do that? Do you think he knows he’s a superstar? And do you think most people who follow the game understand what we're seeing? I don't think people

understand. I don't think they do. And I'll tell you another thing: I understand the game, and I didn’t understand what we were seeing until I saw him play. You have to see him in person. He’s so big! The thing that blew my mind: two things. The sound of the ball coming off his bat. I thought I was crazy, so I asked Dave Roberts—he’s like, "Oh yeah, no, we all talk about it. There’s never been a baseball player whose ball off the bat sounds like Shohei Ohtani." And his speed! Now we know he’s going to steal

50 bases! For opening day, he had a double down the line, and when he made the turn at first, I could not believe my eyes. We are blessed to have him. It’s amazing! What was the turn? What left you breathless about it? How he’s 6'4" and runs like a gazelle! You just can’t believe how fast he is! Yeah, and he can throw too! Oh, it’s unbelievable! He might throw this year. I don’t think he will. What was the injury he had? Tommy John. He’s just coming back from Tommy John. Do you remember Frank McCourt? Of

course, he… "Sat right where you're sitting. Unbelief still owns the parking lot at Dodger Stadium. Best sale? The best—the best sale deal. Taylor has some issues with that. Yeah, I mean, I love my Dodgers; I just wish we could figure out a way to get people in and out of the stadium. Oh my god, well, you know he's on a whole new mission now. He's, uh, you know, he sold his share, obviously, but he's trying to, I think, form a consortium to buy TikTok. I heard this—yeah, he wants to take the internet back, and I

don't think he's messing around. He's serious. In fact, I'm going to hopefully see him when I'm going to Boston next month. He wants to create an internet where individuals own their own personhood, basically, where all of your data is owned by you and you decide who gets to use it and what they pay you. It's going to be insane! Just think about in five years, two years, ten years, the discussions we will be having—remember when, right? Like, it's going to be insane. Yeah, it's happening so fast. I don't, yeah, it just seems platitudinous to even

say it, but it feels like it's part of getting older. I know, but it's the tech, and it's the AI, and it's just so fast. I don't think people have time to process the last breakthrough in the same way we don't have time to understand what this kid means to baseball right now. It's happening right in front of us; everything is happening, yeah, all at once, and everyone's drinking from a fire hose. It feels like—like somebody! I've been trying to articulate what AI is going to mean to people, you know, when asked, and everybody has

their own answers to it. But this is one I heard the other day: it's like it will be the Gutenberg Press if the Gutenberg Press then also wrote whatever book it wanted to write. Right? Yeah, man, that press was a problem. You know who we talked to about that? Uh, I guess it was—was it to Rose maybe or Greg Lukianov? Uh, just the, oh right right, the impact. It was like we haven't seen anything like that until now. You know, the attempt to shut that thing down—I forget what king it was. I think Henry. But

it was just such a colossal threat to the orthodoxy and the way information and the party line—you know, it was simply unacceptable. You know this whole idea of books? It was impossible! You can't put these in people's hands! You know, no! They'll come to the town square and we'll read to them what the news is, right? Right! And we'll tell you the stories we want to tell. It really is so analogous that it's kind of amazing. Yeah, what is the use? Going back to that, the other thing I remember: when I wasn't running from the

bear with your voice in my head. Amazing! You said something else that stuck. Um, what's the point of being famous today? Maybe it was Rogan who said it to you. I thought that was so interesting because here you are alive and well, living your best life about as famous as a person gets. But what a difference 30, 40 years makes! Well, I think we're, in spite of all of the complexities and challenges, and frankly very, very, very bad things that are going on in our world, I believe that we're living in the best time in

human history. Mhm. And I believe that I was a young man in the best time to be! I mean, come on, bro, to be young, single, and famous in the '80s? I wouldn't trade it for any other decade. I don't want to be the Beatles in the '60s. I don't want to be, uh, Valentino in the '20s. I don't want to be Shakespeare in the '40s, and I sure as hell don’t want to be Taylor Swift right now. Don't want to—! That was the time; it was all— all of the good. And there was always

some bad, sure, but it was—that was a moment in time. And I'm just, man, I'm just super grateful. Just the idea, though, of a hit show back then meant 40 million people. Oh, I remember! I remember I did my first TV show when I was 15 years old. It was 1979; there were 60 shows total on television—only 60! The reason I know that is we were always number 60. We were literally the last-rated, lowest-rated show on all of network television. And how many people watched? Yeah, I think we had 30 million people, right? 30 million—the

LA last place! And it was, you dead? I remember even as recently as The West Wing, my follow-up show was a legal thriller called The Lion's Den that I really liked. And I remember our ratings came out: like, oh, you're dead! You're dead! We, uh, we did a six; we did an 8.6—you're dead! God, an 6 was a death knell! Yeah, yeah, death knell! They're looking for one in the demo! Oh, if you get—if you get a one, you're a smash! Yeah, today—that's what I was getting at. How do you, you know, how do you

become famous today? What are the odds? You have to be—the odds are good you become famous; the odds are bad that you stay famous." Shell, being famous today is easier than it's ever been. But look at the Hawk Tuille girl. Yeah, right? Well, I don't know what that is; I've never heard of it before. Tell us more. But you know what I mean—it's longevity. It's hard. Longevity is very hard—very hard now. I think for the current crop of everybody, "Field of Dreams" or "Bull Durham," I had this discussion with Colin Cowherd earlier today. Come on,

a lot of kismi going on here! Earlier today on his show, this exact discussion. I have neither. I see your "Field of Dreams" in Bull Durham, and I raise you "Brian's Song." Oh yeah, it was quite good. "Brian's Song"—best sports movie ever made. Yeah, but not a baseball movie. I'm not going with either one of those; I'm going with "The Natural" for those two—the "Natural." I'm going with "The Natural," one of my all-time favorite movies, period, let alone baseball movies. You know why I love "The Natural"? Because I knew I was being manipulated, and I

liked it. Oh, it makes no bones about it. I mean, he hits the Stanson and it breaks into fireworks. So, you know, right? It's sort of a parable—Wonder Boy—as that incredible score is playing, she stands up; she's got the liter—an actual halo! It becomes a halo, right? Right! How about he fouls off the ball, cracks Wonder Boy, and the fat sweet little ball boy comes out with tears in his eyes, and he goes, "Pick me a good one!" Yeah, come on! Everything—it just—it’s just—and the picture, just this big cornfed kid who’s throwing 100 whatever miles

an hour, rises up out of the frame. Here’s what's interesting about "The Natural": There's a moment in it where the guy, you know, the owner with the weird eye? Yeah, and he—oh, is that Darren McGavin? It’s Darren McGavin. And he goes, somebody says you'll bet on baseball; he says, "I'm not sure that bet will come in. You shouldn't bet on go." "I'll bet on anything I want. Bet on three pitched balls!” Didn't work out for me! I think bet on the Whammer. Remember when he, uh, I think Darren McGavin's character—you never see it—but I think

he's referring to betting on that early scene where Redford strikes out the Whammer, right? And then the Devil Woman changes her focus to him, right? Which is one of the great shots in movie history, where you see her literally look from one side of the screen to the other like, “I want that,” but you have no idea what it means. That’s right, you have no idea what’s coming. It’s a good movie. It’s a good movie. Maybe great. Great movie. Is it the greatest? Is it the greatest baseball—I mean, what am I missing? I feel like

there’s something there. Maybe you haven’t seen it recently? I don't know. "Bull Durham," I like best. Yeah, and "Field of Dreams." Here’s my thing B. Here’s my thing with Bum. Here’s my thing with Bu: maybe because I knew him a little bit, I was like, “Tim Robbins is a baseball player?” I guess. I mean, I get—that's a problem you get when you're so in it and you know—know what I mean? You're like—like I wasn't, I mean, we could have been competitive. We're sort of different age types, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, and I'm

like, "Dude!" Whereas Charlie Sheen, he played! Dude, he has an arm like you couldn't believe! Yeah, I mean, we grew up playing ball together. Yeah, I mean, you did not want to face Charlie Sheen. So that was a barrier to entry for me in "Bull Durham." I'm going to go back to Sam for a minute. It just occurred to me that you and I probably shared the same stage—the Sam High Auditorium. You must have—were you doing plays back in the day? No thing! See, I fancied myself and was a pro already, and I wouldn't sully

myself. He's kind of a big deal—High School plays? Of course not! And so, in fact, I had never been backstage there ever until about three months ago. The boys and I were filming a little documentary, or I forget what it was, but we were filming in the wings, and there’s written—everybody who’d ever been there writes on the wall, and there’s a thing with this, this is Emilio Estevez! Yeah, yeah, up there! I saw it! Right? Well, there’s no Rob Lowe back there because I was—you know, I was in the pro leagues. Come on! In the

NFL! I just—it's so—by the way, here’s a great one: you remember Rick Monday, the baseball player? Sure! So next time you're at Sam, go look at home plate and then look at what they used to call the boys' gym, back when there could be such a thing as the boy gym and the girls' gym—the boy gym! Rick Monday hit a ball off the roof when he was at Sam O'Hai. Wow! And people talked about it. I wonder if people even remember it, but it was lore and legend when I went there. I just, I never

thought about it! I mean, I was telling Rob earlier, we filmed the way I heard it—there, all of the Spalding Gray stage beats and that thing—and I never thought of what it must be like to be already famous while you're in high school. School. But, of course, this would be the place where that would happen. Well, but also, here's an added element that makes it even freakier: already famous but unemployed. Like, I thought my career was over already 'cause I had a TV series at 15 and all of a sudden I wasn't working, and I

was like, "Was this it? Was I a one-hit wonder?" Yeah, and I was like, "I know! I'll be a marine biologist!" And that's what I was going to go do. You really thought that was lights out? That was it? I thought it was over. And there was, God bless her, a casting director named Janet Hinson who cast a lot of big movies, and she was like, "They're just hiring 18-year-olds because of the child labor laws; they can work longer than 16-year-olds and 17-year-olds. Give it until you're 18." And I'll be damned if I didn't turn

18 on the set of *The Outsiders*. Did I hallucinate this, or did you tell a story once upon a time about that time period and how you caught maybe Jack Nicholson's eye in traffic or something like that? Like, Jack Nicholson looked over at you and gave you a thumbs up or some kind of encouraging word? Oh, that—I think if anything, Nicholson looked across the floor of the Lakers game in the '80s when we were dating the same women and gave me the "I'll kill you" sign across his neck. Did he really? I think maybe that’s

what you’re thinking. Could be. Could be. I don’t know, man. Kill you, punk! Wow, get out of my dojo! Who was the girl at that point? No, there were a couple of them, but that's the thing about getting older. Now I look at Jack and I go, "Wait, we were swimming in the same river." Yeah, sure. A River Runs Through It. There’s a big difference between 47 and 27 and 60 and 80, right? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, in fact, I do. Right? Yeah. Things happen real quick nowadays. Really quick. I just remember

some girl saying to Jack, "Rob thought that we'd come over and we'd all go." That sounds like "Three's Company" to me. [Laughter] Um, I don't want to keep you all day; this is great! This is so fun. But I do want to land the plane back sort of where we started with this—with your boys, man. I love that he came here. I didn’t even know he was coming! He was probably your ride home. You know what happened was... I remember talking to Sarah. Yes, you know, and she said, "Is it okay if Matthew comes along?"

And I was like, "Yeah, no problem." Then just earlier today I was like, "Oh, wait a minute. I know Rob's son wanted to be here," so I called your new guy. Oh, that's so great! I'm so glad it all worked out! So glad! I mean, of all... I said to you off-camera, but you know, like the—you and *Deadliest Catch* are kind of like what Elton John was to me on the radio in my childhood. You were for my kids. It's nighttime; I've gotten home. We’ve got a couple of hours before they've got to go to

bed. What are we going to watch? I mean, years and years and years of it, so it’s a huge pleasure. I didn’t know, of course; you never know when you’re in the thick of it. But I wanted to tell you too: your love affair with curiosity... You know, I did have a front-row seat to the Discovery Channel. I knew John Hendricks when he formed it, you know, from his garage, basically. He is one of the great entrepreneurs of all time, basically pirating space, a transponder off a satellite, and buying these documentaries from Australia and beaming

them down. He just had this vision in his head that something could be done on TV that really hadn't been done. We came close with Marlon Perkins, came close with *Wild Kingdom*, but you could still see the methods of broadcast all over that. Right, for sure. This thing, and as I'm sure you know, Discovery has since purchased Warner Brothers. They’re now the largest entertainment conglomerate on the planet. Yeah. But it all starts with John Hendricks. I asked him in the late '80s, "What’s the real plan? What are you looking for? How are you thinking about

TV and everything else?" He shrugged and he said, "I have one agenda: three words—to satisfy curiosity." That’s it! Everything this company does under my tutelage will satisfy curiosity in some way, shape, or form. Wow! And I got him toward the end of it before David Zaslav came in, and so shows like *Dirty Jobs*, shows like *Deadliest Catch*, they were new. You said that we had kind of traded mystery for authenticity. My rap around that same time was saying we were transitioning from authority to authenticity. So Marlon Perkins was an authoritative voice, and David Attenborough, and

all—they're up in the ether. That’s right! Custo and Jane Goodall, those people, and I love them to this day! Terrific! But if you really watched what happened over there through the lens of how curiosity shifted, I just think it’s so interesting that suddenly a guy like me could wind up at the... Center of some of these shows, who in fact doesn't know anything, like a true dilettante who tries to be honest about his shortcomings, and just look under the rock or crawl through the sewer or haul up the pot and see what might be in

there, you know? And somehow, dude, when nobody was looking, that became dominant in my little lane. Yeah, and your little lane powered the company that's powering the whole industry now. Well, from your mouth to everybody else's ears. But yeah, there was a time when "Deadliest Catch" and "MythBusters" pulled that whole train. Were you a "MythBusters" dude, Matt? Oh yeah, yeah, those are like the golden era of television. We always knew what we would be watching. It's so amazing to hear that from you, and I know you deal with it every day. But you know, when

you grow up with somebody, when you go— I deliberately try to not ask you any of the questions you typically get asked about all of the things that you've done. But to imagine that you guys, 20 years ago, were watching me do this, that, and the other thing, it's a consummation devoutly to be wished. You know what I mean? Literally, I—the last voice I might hear might be, meanwhile, back on the Cornelia Marie, 234 miles north northwest of Dutch Harbor, Alka. Right? When's the next fishing trip? That just made me think—we've got to bring them

on our boat. Yeah, let's do that! Be a part of the three different pilots we tried to film on that one. Yeah, we're always trying to like half-ass film some stupid pilots out there. Well, that's where the call came from. Matthew, a guy named Aram, who produces—do you know Aram Star? He did the thing we did in Hawaii; that's where Aram was! I knew it! I knew there was—yes, Aram's amazing! He's great! He's great! Amazing! He just called me about two weeks ago, and he was like, "I just want to tell you, man, they lit

up season 21! We're literally going into the 21st season of 'Deadliest Catch.' And you know what it takes to be on the air for 20 years doing anything? Yes, it's virtually impossible unless you're 'The Simpsons.' Or no, it's impossible." And so, you know, in the end, I just said it to David yesterday: "You can't script the Bering Sea." No kidding! And people keep watching, dude. They keep watching! I'll watch it forever. Oh good! I'll narrate it forever; it'll be great. I love the idea that I could be the last voice you ever hear! No, I'm

telling you, it's like—there are certain—I don't know, it could be Mick going, "Please allow me to introduce yourself." It could be John Lennon saying, "Strawberry Fields," but I put it up in that category; some high cotton, my friend. If I can ever return the favor, don't hesitate to ask. For sure! I know the podcast game is a barking dog at the back door—you might love it, but before you know it, it's time to record another one! Oh, isn't it unbelievable, dude? It's one of those things that compresses time! But this guy, my old dear best

friend, Buddy, is so far up my ass now! Every time I turn around, there's a new stack of ads—getting it can be unpleasant. Yeah, it's just—I mean, it's a conveyor belt! It is! But once you're in it, man, see, this is why we do it, because this feels like time stopped. It's just like, "All right, on Wednesday, we're going to drive to the..." Okay, kinda dragged at the end a little, I thought, but by and large, I mean, I thought we did okay! We came out hot! I think we did! We came out hot! There's

so much to unpack in this one. One, there is—I love the fact that a guy who made his living from scripts is now in this world of quasi-teleprompter, seat-of-your-pants game shows and totally off-the-grid podcasting. I love that you're curious; I love that you've evolved and pivoted. You got to go to—you have to meet the audience where they are; you have to! And you know, I—I was at a place the other day where there's a room full of 28- and 30-year-olds, and I'm not being factious; I'm not exaggerating for the point of—they did not know who

Bob Dylan was! Yeah! And by the way, Bob Dylan doesn't give a [__] nor should he, right? But my point being, if one of the things you aspire to is to be relevant today and continue to be in relationship with an audience, you've got to meet them where they are! Right? Right? Roow! Everybody, you're the best! All right, that was fun! If you like what you heard, if you don't, won't you please—I'm sorry, I hate to beg and I hate to plead, but please, pretty freaking please, please, please subscribe by—