Is Jesus an alien? Pope Francis’ interest in UAPs explained | Reality Check with Ross Coulthart

good day and welcome to reality check before we start this week's show a little bit about this week's sponsor Dr Steven gundry is sharing his findings about a potential toxin that's in many of the quote healthy foods that some scientists push us to eat they may actually be causing digestive issues for millions of people worldwide warning signs including weight gain fatigue digestive disc comfort and stiff joints even skin problems and Dr gundry says these signs these side effects are often mistaken for normal signs of aging you just have to know which foods are actually healthy

and which contain this hidden potential toxin he's put together an informative video you can watch at gut cleanse protocol.com Ross that's gut cleans protocol / Ross we're going to link to it below the video and again that's gut cleans protocol.com Ross okay now let's get on with the [Music] show good day and welcome back to reality check so let's go back to a morning mass in May of 2014 and Pope Francis States quote if an expedition of martians arrives and some of them come to us and if one of them says me I want to

be baptized what would happen it begs the question what does the leader of the most powerful Church in the world think and know about uaps unidentified anomalous phenomena well our guest today thinks he may have some of those answers a computer programmer by profession Gabrielle Pedra has a doctorate in theology from the spain-based theologica Ser is salude the theological commission for Service and Health and he also has some scientific training he's qualified in plant-based nutrition from the T Colin Campbell Center for nutrition studies at Cornell University in the US and he's made a study of

molecular biology Gabrielle's new book delves into an issue I've heard some about but not a lot of hard detail the vatican's interest in UFOs and anomalous phenomena and in particular what Gabriel reveals about the current pope FR Pope francis's strong connections to and apparently intense interest in unidentified anomalous phenomena his book is entitled a new civilization the hidden history of the Catholic fre Freemasonry and non-human intelligence and the story of J Mario boglio before he ascended to becoming Pope Francis is absolutely extraordinary to say the least and Gabrielle has the details so you might be

thinking why would we take an interest in what the Vatican and its leadership think about the UAP mystery about the possibility of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet well it matters because there are as many as 1.4 billion baptized Catholics on this planet a huge proportion of humanity Catholicism is the largest branch of Christianity it's also an extraordinarily powerful and influential soft power multinational bureaucracy with enormous spiritual and moral influence on many countries worldwide as we'll hear today it has its own diplomatic and intelligence service worldwide and at the heart of this church is

the pope Pope Francis regarded by followers as the Earthly Vicor of Christ Christ's representative on Earth Gabrielle welcome to reality check you you say in your book that the Vatican had an interest in the subject of UAP and its occupants for a long time particularly during the papacy of Francis it's believed that the phenomenon use say is behind every religion and that it comes from God and that in this matter the Vatican is trying to prepare the world for a future Revelation where's your evidence for that my friend well first of all uh Ross thank

you for having me here today well in reality the evidence uh is very deep and it's very good because it's true that there have been Pops that they have say something about subject for example John Paul II many years ago he said something but not publicly exactly but regarding popes Pope Francis is the first pope that has been very open at least when he was in Argentina about this subject well to begin with we can say for example that H he was a disciple of Benito Segundo Rea he was a Jesuit priest and he was

an astronomer also in Argentina he was a disciple of bergoglio at the beginning bergoglio didn't like so much about his hobes with extraterrestrial intelligence and flying discs and all of that but after some time he changed his mind I think that it was like 1988 when he began to change his mind about the subject so you're saying that the current pope has taken an interest a very close interest in uaps in unidentified anomalous phenomena through this this particular mentor of his in Argentina exactly it's not a small interest it's a very big interest in fact

uh we can say that is almost Central in his papacy because before becoming Pope he knew in some way that he had to become Pope because there was a meeting in 1988 and in a hump h of a person there were two ufologists very well-known oologist in Argentina one of them was Pedro romanuk that we can talk a a a little more in some minutes or something like that but the other one was aquanis anel Christo aquanis they became friends of bergoglio and they were in a house they were talking about extraterrestrial intelligence life after

death and some other topics and AOG glanis used to say that he had contacts with light beings or extraterrestrials and he also said that he received some prophecies one of those prophecies was and he said to bergoglio that day in that house you are going to become Pope one day but bergoglio says some said something like uh stop bother me because I don't believe you after that akog glanis turned his face to romanuk and he told him he doesn't believe me that he's going to be pul one day so you actually so I got to

be this right so there was a prophecy from this guy who I think is Angel Christo AO glanis exactly this was at the home of Pedro romanc their two Argentinian ethologists and AO glanis claimed to be channeling a message from extraterrestrials that uh J boglio was going to become the pope and that's in 1988 that's many many years before he became Pope exactly and there are two reasons because of that first because aklan said that his contacts were not just but mainly from uror mtin there is a hotspot in Argentina very well known from for

many apologists even in the US uh would Itor on many people have seen lights flying lights flying discs they have had Comm Communications with beings that they say that they are living inside the mountain and aquanis used to say that he had contacts with those beings in that mountain the other thing is that bergolo was changing his mind about the Catholic church because he was very conservative but after that he began to change his mind about a lot of topics so he began to be open about the Extraterrestrial intelligence the possibility that that could be

real So when you say that boglio was hanging out if you like with AKA glennis and ranok are you sure he wasn't just a sort of an incidental guest at their home you're you're suggesting that he was actually actively involved and interested in the UAP UFO subject with these gentlemen well what went know so far until now is this that that and I think that from the 1990 something something like that he was very involved mainly with Pedro Romano because because Angel Christo aquanis was assassinated some years after 1988 after that meeting I don't know

if that meeting in 1988 was a casual meeting like I want to learn something but I don't know what to believe but after some years uh bergoglio the the actual pop Francis he became very involved in the subject in fact he became to believe that the phenomenon was real and that extraterrestrial intelligences were busi think planet Earth wow that's a big call so the current pope is a tinfoil [Laughter] header many people can say that yes it's true it's true it's true but what I say to the people people as yes he can believe that

but you cannot say it's craziness because if you don't know his experiences because there are a lot of sources that know firsthand uh about all this thinking about all all this subject regarding Pope Francis and and alien life so can we roll back a bit I'm fascinated with what you say in your book about the history of the C cic Church's engagement with the the UAP mystery and I guess a good starting point is my friend and colleague Professor Diana Walsh Pula who's written two excellent books one is American Cosmic and the other is encounters

and both of them touch on the fact that the Vatican is taking an extremely close interest in uaps and um my understanding from Diana is that she's been given some access to some of the Vatican archives on this stuff it's quite clear isn't it Gabrielle that the Vatican is taking a much closer interest in the phenomenon of unidentified anomalous objects whatever they are um than previous Paces there seems to have been if you like a ramping up of awareness about the issue there have been a number of meetings where there have been conferences held about

the possibility of extraterrestrial life what do we know about what the Vatican says about the possibility of a non-human intelligence well what we can say is this because I know that the pontifical Academy of Sciences they have a big interest in this because it's that is public but at the same time there are some sources that I cannot name but those sources have told me that inside that branch of the Vatican there is a big interest about the subject okay they take some testimonies around the world and after that U the J PR some J

priests in the Vatican take that information and that information goes to Pope Francis to analyze that information about maybe those cases are real or maybe not but he's he he has taken seriously what that branch of the Vatican is saying about the subject given that Bo Pope Francis is very involved about the subject and there is much much more about what happened in Argentina with him and the subject in I'll get to that I'll get to that detail but I I want to get a bit of the history so Diana Walsh Pula the professor from

the University of North Carolina Wilmington she's made a study of Supernatural events in the Catholic church and she tells the story of a nun in the late 1800s who was woken by a glowing orb hovering above her head in her bedroom and this was also witnessed apparently by the Mother Superior of the nunery and um apparently they decided at the time that it was a um a lost soul who was um searching for Purgatory uh for release from purgatory but this idea of balls of flaming light whatever you think about the truth or the veracity

of that particular account it does mes with a lot of the accounts that we hear from UAP experiences today is it possible that religious explanations for the phenomenon are merely encounters with a non-human intelligence do you believe absolutely and for example just briefly because for example you can talk we can talk about the diverging operations in Garabandal in Spain in the 1960s the other ones were in meori okay in meori those those operations began in the 1980s so it was not just the Virgin Mary but or liked orbs so when you're talking about Spain I

don't know that one I do know about fattima the fattima incident in 1917 which was three children seeing uh allegedly the Virgin Mary appearing to them intriguingly as a small quite squat four or five foot figure but these children you know described what was obviously for them a deeply spiritual experience and it's become almost a religious Shrine in Portugal uh talk me through those incidents migori Spain and Fatima in Portugal well beginning with Fatima uh the official explanation is something very different about what is in the archives ER Fin dhada and Hakim Fernandez they they

made a very good research because they went to the to the original archives in Fatima so they was a 25 years investigation into the archives and in newspapers from the time and for example there was a a kind of Prophecy from some people um like they were Chans or something like that okay and they said that on May 13 on 1917 there was going to happen something big they were not Catholic they were just talking with the spirits or something like that what what what they said and that was published in newspapers in in Portugal

so on May 13 there was an oparation okay but what the archive said is that the three children H in the landscape taking care of the chips suddenly there was like a big ball in the air it was hovering now that big ball in the there was projecting a figure of a lady and that lady began to talk to them but she never told them I am Mary she was just the lady that was all talking about saying that he was the the Virgin Mary that was a change that became after that but that what

but but that is not from the mouths of the witnesses okay so the more the more accurate to make your point the more accurate version of the story from the people who've done the firsthand research is that essentially it equates more appropriately with what you and I might call uaps some kind of sphere some kind of glowing sphere exactly in fact in the last Apparition that was October 13 of 1917 uh talking about the miracle of the Sun what the witnesses say what they said was that there was like a disc that disc was hovering

over them there was Smoke behind that disc some people said that there were occupants in that disc that they were saying hello some people maybe because for the background they they were saying that was Christ the father and the Virgin Mary that they were waving and saying hello or something like that but that was the case in fact if we go to the to the website of Fatima if you if you are going to look to the photographs there is a photograph um you can see that dis flying above the people and you can see

the trail of the smoke that goes like this and like this how sure are we about the authenticity of that photograph if it is a reliable photograph we'll show it here but has the authenticity of that photograph been challenged at all no never and I think that one of the best evidences is that they have that same photograph in their website I don't know after this interview if that if that if that photograph is going to continue there but but until today that photograph is there see I've never heard this before so I was always

told that Fatima was the vision of the Virgin Mary appearing to three beautiful little children who had a a religious exaltation experience and essentially it was reinforcing obviously the belth and Catholicism what you're suggesting is almost heretical it basically seems to be suggesting that there's a non-human intelligence that might have been engaging with Humanity at that incident and that it's been mistaken or misused to represent the Catholic tradition yes well what what I can say is this uh because something very different is the people that made the changes and the rest of the world and

even the rest of the Catholic church because when you see when the changes began those changes began when Lucia the last survivor of the witnesses she began to talk with the Jesuits and in exactly in in very definite dates that changes became all that invest vation is in the book of fin dada and Hakim Fernandez is a very good research but there were JS in other parts of the world that they were confronting those Jesuits in Portugal because they were saying oh no no no this is very strange because there is something else so that

doesn't mean that the whole Catholic church or that the whole J order knows about what is behind all of this can I ask you before we leave the Fatima story um again I only have the most limited knowledge and experience of this story but I've always heard about the three secrets of Fatima and there's always been this dark rumor that the Third Secret which apparently has been released hasn't been released in totality and there's a lot of conspiracy theories in the UAP research World suggesting that the Third Secret of fattima has a link to the

UAP subject do do you give that with your research any credibility at all Gabrielle no and there reason is this because when you see the research I know that what I'm going to say is very controversial but if you see that book is very evident that all those secrets were an invention okay because Lucia in the original archives Lucia always said the whole thing that the lady said was just some very small words just a small phrase that was all but after the apparitions some years after the apparitions when she became in contact with the

Jes okay those small words was a big secret after some years a second secret now the Third Secret was announced I uh I don't remember that it was in 1947 that was said that there was a third secret but I think that the secrets had the intention to to defend Orthodoxy so if that was the original intention to defend Orthodoxy I don't think that there was an invention about that there is a third secret hidden with extral intelligence that is going to be revealed one day or something like that so you don't give that any

Credence at all that suggestion no I am open I am open to the possibility but given the evidence I don't believe it very much okay so let's talk about the because I I find all these incidents interesting because I'm not suggesting ill intent what I am suggesting is that obviously there are people of deep religious Faith who've interpreted these events through their own prism of their deep religiosity and I guess it's interesting to know there's fattima then there's the one in Spain let's take us to Spain and then we'll talk to migori what happened in

Spain okay in Spain in gaval Spain in the north of Spain there were two little girls that they were uh they were in in one of the mountains in gaval it's a very small and very precious town in gaval and they said in the 1960s that the Virgin Mary appeared to them in the pine trees that that are in that mountain in gaval now the very interesting thing about this operation that that is very strange for me because that in that operation she actually said that she was Virgin Mary okay that's very clear about that

he she even talked to them about the second Vatican counil that that that was in those days in the Vatican also so but there are some things because many people say that in gaval and in the north of Spain a lot of lights and B of lights are seen in the skies of gaval and there were two occasions for example in the diary of the main witness okay she said that she saw like a light flying very fast in the sky and after that the Virgin appeared in the pine trees now there was another occation

because there was like like a big sphere that was besides Virgin Mary in one of the appari and one of the girls asked to the to the Virgin Mary uh dear lady what is that and she said to them that is the vacle that I used to come here okay is is very interesting but do you find you obviously find this a more plausible account than the claims about the three secrets of Fatima why why do you find it more plausible first because it's more actual there are videos and the witnesses I don't know if

all of them or three of them they are alive and they have talked about those testimonies so that's direct testimonies of people that are alive even to this day so again do you think that that is evidence I mean I guess what I'm asking for here is um do you think that there is a connection between what we all refer to as a non-human intelligence and what the world religions including Catholicism and Christianity would describe as you know the the the fundamental tenets of Christianity a belief in God Jesus Virgin Mary I mean is that

what you're suggesting not exactly because that's going to depend of the interpretation but I think that much more research is needed because for example many people can say extraterrestrials because they are angels and they are not from here so you can say that they are extraterrestrial intelligence because they are not from here but some people can say those are beings from other planets okay but the other thing is for example the other interpretation can be like this because many people in in caraval and many researchers have wonder and and there are places that are really

old that there was a very ancient culture there where they used to say that there were the gods of the heavens that came here to the Earth even in gaval and those lights were seem so some people can say maybe there is a force behind those apparitions that say I am the virgin marry but in reality I am not but that's going to depend of the resoures let let me be a hardn skeptical debunking cynic for a moment Gabrielle um isn't it possible that there are people in the church not of good intention who are

seeking to who who are seeking to manipulate a perfectly natural phenomenon or at least something anomalous that has been occurring long before perhaps even Christianity first appeared on this planet uh who are ulating that phenomena for the purposes of underlining the significance of their own religion yes I think so and we can say that that's not the fault of all the people or all the clerics in that religion that is going to depend of people that are in the know that maybe they they know a lot more but they are thinking I'm going to say

this what I think Rose is this is is I am not against religion I am not against that I am not against believing in God but I think that we don't we don't have to fear about find the truth it's much better to find the truth and to see what is behind and what that can tell us to us and so what do you think is Pope Francis J Mario bogo's view on what you just said do you think he's interested in finding the truth even if it does perhaps undermine some of the more Orthodox

ideas behind Catholicism well that's a hard question in some way and I really don't know my suspicion is that he knows a lot about this connection what is his interpretation about that connection that some of them are of satanic origin some of them are angels some of them are exal in the sense that they are from other planets I really don't know but I suspect very much because for some other information that I have that he knows very well that connection with the Antiquity and the Spheres and ladies and all those things one of the

things that fascinated me from Diana Walsh pula's research was that there are uh accounts in the uh Catholic literature of objects doing doing very similar things to what we would describe as UFOs for example people describe balls or luminous beings descending from the sky or passing through walls these beings terrorize poke and prod people with a dart likee instrument assaulting them with a peculiar light and leaving them utterly transformed and um you you cite the example of St Theresa of ailia who was a 16th century nun and then there's a more contemporary account that's told

in John Max's book about a chap called Edward Carlos which is told in John Max's book abduction can you talk about those two events talk about the parallels please well H if I remember well regarding the parallels because for H for example about the first witness that you told me she used to say that there was like as fear in her room this is St Theresa R ailia in the 16th century yes San Teresa of ailia exactly she said that there was like a sphere that was in her room okay that was visiting but she

was very scared about that so she didn't know what to do about that and she talked with her Superior and and her Superior went to her room and she herself saw that ball of light or or that sphere coming into her room so what I remember was that her interpretation was something like that was a spirit maybe that was a spirit okay be because that's the Catholic thinking now re regarding Dr John Mack he saw some some parallels some things that were similar to that if you can refresh me something about John Mack about that

episode of okay it was a guy I think it was a chap called Edward Carlos who essentially described a very similar situation of a luminous being appearing in his oh yes yes aluminous being that that was there now the other thing that I remember for example is that sometimes those beings are inside of a light sphere after that they are not in that sphere because they go outside of that sphere so it's very similar because he is Luminous like in the first case so I want to come back to J Mario boglio the pope before

he became Pope but before we do I want you to quickly finish the series of explanations you're giving me about these great religious Miracle events that have occurred in recent modern history and the other one of course is migori what happened at migori okay regarding meori the those operations were in the 1980s okay in Croatia and those apparition were in a mountain now there were some witnesses that they used to say that that there were light spheres hovering when those apparitions of the Virgin Mary were actually o o uring all those days but there are

even Witnesses not exactly related with the moment of the operations but close to the mountain in meori some people used to say that the they saw like a flying disc or a spaceship really really big now the other thing that for me is very impressive that it's mountains okay in the case of Garabandal it was a mountain in the case of medori it was a mountain and there are many apparitions even in the even in the Antiquity in Canaan for example in the Middle East they used to worship their their Gods Not only but in

the top of the mountains and the ladies appear there it's it is very similar even light spheres that were that were appearing in in those moments so give me your analysis what does this all mean Gabriel what are the implications if if three of the great Catholic religious Miracles all have anomalous dis objects or orb glowing orb objects are we suggesting that the Catholic church has perhaps appropriated uh for the purposes of convincing the faithful um these incidents that are in fact UAP incidents or are we suggesting that the uaps are perhaps evidence that the

Catholics might be right where do you stand I mean are you are you a man of Faith what's your position on this I am a I am a a man of Faith yes I believe in God I believe in intelligent design I know that there are a lot of things that are not very useful to explain intelligent designs when we talk about Sciences but I think that there is very good evidence that points about that regarding the Catholic Church what I can say is this I cannot talk about what I don't know in this way

okay the people that know all these connections about those people are some of those people that know all these connections talking publicly in the name of the Vatican giving their own interpretation I don't know because I don't know maybe but I don't know now regarding the origin what I can say because it's a long story but I just can say this at least I think that the best place maybe I can be wrong but the best place to begin to analyze the origin is IDU IDU in Mesopotamia in Mesopotamia arido is the best place to

begin I think so what what came first was the religion an explanation for the phenomenon or is the F phenomenon a manifestation of the religion no I think that is the first option so religion is perhaps our attempt to try to explain a phenomenon that has always been here you saying well what I think is that the phenomenon has been here from Millennia now I think that the phenomenon can give their names my name is this and this and this in this culture and in this other culture and on some others now are there cases

where some of those people said I'm going to decide to put this name uh we really don't know but maybe we can do a kind of mix with the theory of Jack balet because for example in messengers of deception there is a very well book for example so ja jacqu Val is one of the most prominent UFO researchers and commentators he's an elderly gentleman and probably the for the foremost researcher and commentator exactly and B talks a lot he's not the only one but I think that he was the first to talk about that uh

he talked about the religions of the past where the phenomenon was present and I think that the phenomenon has given origin to the religion okay now regarding people that may say but there are some things there are some practices that that are craziness what I can just say is this because Jack balet some sometimes he said for example in messengers of deception that the phenomenon many times Works in in a kind of funny way like very absurd okay many the trickster phenomenon exactly and maybe that was the case in the past that maybe we can

say it's ridiculous in Egypt or in Mesopotamia or in Canaan in Japan Etc ET it's is very crazy but if we know that the phenomenon is real we cannot say that it's craziness in the sense that that was a human invention that could very well became from non-human intelligence with which purposes we really don't know for sure so let's go back to Argentina and in the period we're talking about J Mario boglia the future popee Francis is a cardinal and so he's a very senior member of the Catholic church but your evidence that you've got

in your book suggests that there are multiple Witnesses who say that even while he was a cardinal boglio was attending functions at the home of noted ethologists in Argentina and clearly taking a very very close interest in the phenomenon yes exactly and I talked at least with four F with four Witnesses from Argentina and there have been other people that have talked with some other witnesses that I even don't know uh the story is this that not just but from the 2000s bergoglio used to go to Pedro Romano's house Pedro romanuk was a disciple of

Benjamin Solari paravicini exactly he died in he died in 1974 and he was Catholic and he said that in 1961 he was abducted in Buenos Iris by aliens exactly and he was traveling in a UFO so after some hours H he came back to the same place in buenosaires but even before that he he had apparitions of iic Saints pars of goblins and fies and all those things so forgive me for interrupting here Gabriel but I just want our audience to be clear on this so whatever we think of the veracity of the authenticity or

the truth of the allegations made by people by B people like parachini or romanio the point that you're making is that these were mentors to boglio before he became Pope and boglio as a cardinal was engaging with these people extremely closely exactly well uh what I know is that bergoglio he didn't know personally Benham Solari paravicini he didn't know him personally but he knew in person Pedro romanuk and Pedro romanuk was disciple of of paravicini and paravicini used used to make a lot of drug WI regarding prophecies something that were going to to happen in

the future in Argentina in the world in the Catholic Church uh the coming of a new pope that is that was going to come with very new ideas going to the streets to help the poor and all those things and actually that prophecy is something that Pope Francis is recommending to the people to do until this day and when he was in Pedro Roman new's house they used to chat a lot with people from the artistic world in Argentina politicians like Elisa Kio that she is a congresswoman she was one of the presents in those

meetings and in those meetings they used to talk the whole night many times they used to talk about three subjects extraterrestrial intelligence that they were visiting the Earth Benjamin Solari paravicini profess is the future of the Catholic church and life after death so your your point is this is not an idol interest by Cardinal bergoglio as he was at the time this was an intense interest he was very closely engaged with the UAP mystery yes he was very indeep in that so there's another person you talk about who's described as a spiritual advisor to Pope

Frances Eduardo dentino and you make the point that he's post some amazing claims on Facebook about what he describes as a universal energy frequencies and waves that permeate everything he talks openly about human capabilities yet to be discovered such as remote viewing psychokinesis and other supposed psychic abilities are you suggesting that the pope himself is perhaps interested and engaged with those subjects as well because we're now steering into what I'm sure a lot of debunkers and Skeptics would describe as the wacky and the crazy yes exactly well two things to Regard in that statement first

Eduardo dentino he was close to Pedro romanuk okay and Pedro romanuk he had a place called FY in Argentina and that was a place to make contact well is a place because that place is today in v delpino in Buenos cus in Argentina okay they are they are some of them are Catholics they believe in the Virgin Mary but they also believe in extraterrestrial intelligence and they talk also about remote viewing and Eduardo dentino new Pedro romano and I know because I talked with a source about that that jogo believe about these things like like

remote viewing and psychokinesis now the thing I find intriguing about the fichi site the romaniac uh location is that it's also said in your book that Pedro romaniac spoke of Jesus as quote chief of the celestial teachers of the extraterrestrials so romaniac was actually of the belief that Jesus is an alien yes exactly and and that's and that's what sorry and forgive me for dotting the eyes and crossing the tees and that's what romaniac has suggested as a mentor to bergoglio now Pope Francis exactly well regarding that he's an extraterrestrial maybe not in the sense

that is created maybe yes maybe not but the thing is that Pedro romanuk H he wrote some books and for for example he wrote that Jesus is the master of the universe and he's going to come back in the second coming with all these extraterrestrial beings to save the Earth there uh in 2018 I was in a meeting here in Costa Rica and one of the best friends of Pope Francis was here and and he gave a very interesting team and he said something about the gods of the other cultures that are in heaven but

the main of them is Jesus and I was present there personally so let me be clear about this Gabriel a lot of what we're discussing here would be heretical to a lot of the Orthodox people inside the Catholic church and it's not fair to say that Pope francis's views if in fact he subscribes to these views would be the general view of people in the Catholic church is it it would be quite it would be quite On The Fringe to suggest that these ideas are in any way the accepted view exactly and what I recommend

to the people is this okay because for example this information is is not so secret but what I can say to the people that do not know about this okay they don't know the other thoughts that he has in mind about the subject what I can say is that he's very open and I think that the people need to give him the opportunity in the future I don't know to know what he thinks about the subject because there is a lot of evidence that says that the phenomenon is real now this is where I want

to make a segue with the fact that boglio is as I understand it a Jesuit uh in his background in the Catholic church and I think you need to explain the significance of the role that the Jesuit faith if you like inside the Catholic church has played they're very Progressive and I think it's particularly significant in relation to the Fatima um series of incidents the the sightings by people of the in the Fatima location in Portugal there there's been a very big attempt by the Jesuit arm of the Catholic Church to reconcile with the Freemasons

what was it in history that happened in Portugal that led to a conflict between the Catholic church and the Freemasons well what I want to be clear is about this because I know that many a lot of people is going to see chrisis and conspiracy theory I am I am very much against conspiracy theories but this is not conspiracy theory is is history because Freemasonry always has been about progressiveness now the the very Catholic Church U used to be very conservative so when they when they were in Portugal in the 1910 until 1917 and after

that year they began to take control of the government in some degree so they were very much against the Catholic church because they didn't like the union about church and state because the Freemasons s are are about that you have to bre free to worship God as as you want to believe it so but there was a kind of War about that in Portugal and after that in the middle of that war the apparitions of Fatima became to happen so so Fatima started around 1617 1916 1917 didn't they what happened what was the reaction of

the Freemasons who were slowly gaining power in Portugal to the claims that were being made by the Catholic church about these apparitions at Fatima they were that the children were lying and that was an operation from the Catholic church in order to recover its power in Portugal that that was a total invention but that wasn't an invention because the evidence is very hard and so where does Pope Francis stand because there's been this I mean as I understand it it's still proscribed officially by the Catholic church that you can't be a Catholic and a Freemason

that Freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic faith is that still the case um more or less we can say why because for example November last year Pope Francis signed a document that was stating what we knew from 1983 from Cardinal ringer the p po pop Benedict the 16 that free mansonry was not allowed in the Catholic church that no Catholic can be a member of the Freemasonry Society or the order but it's a kind of contradictory but because when you see in years past H Pope Francis was very welcomed with some of the Freemasons from

France and he has been very very open with the Freemasons in Austria also and and in fact I I had some communication some years ago with one of the persons in charge in the Freemasonry in Austria and and he stated to me that the conversations with the Vatican were very well with pop Francis so just explain that to me then what why would Pope Francis be seeking a reproach mon as you suggest with Freemasonry what's Pope francis's position on Freemasonry and this is where we get into the sensitivity you have about being accused of pushing

a conspiracy theory what is it that you know Gabriel about Pope Francis and Freemasonry well I have three or four testimonies for example H when I told you that in 1988 he was more open about some other conversations like extraterrestrial intelligence because he used to be very conservative some people say that in those years 1988 1992 something like that he was in contact with Freemasonry and he became a Freemason himself you're suggesting the pope is a secret Freemason in Defiance of the vatican's own rules on Freemasonry well I have the original recording an audio recording

of a of a phone conversation with the that they are talking about some Iranian representatives in Argentina they are talking about a conversation that one of them had with the Vatican intelligence representative in Argentina and he said to them to this Iranian person that that he said that he was a Freemason I just want to before you go any further I think we should explain this to our audience because it's in danger of getting complicated and I think this is a really interesting point so in um uh what period when was this attack there was

a there was a terror attack in 1994 there was there was an attack on an Argentinian Israeli Mutual Association building in buzer that killed 85 people and injured hundreds of people and in 2006 Argentinian prosecutors accused Iran of directing the bombing carried out by Hezbollah and it has come out including in some of the more prominent newspapers in argentinia that a former senior official with Argentina's intelligence service one Bautista yofre also a former Ambassador told an Argentine TV show that when they were investigating an Iranian sponsored terror attack on Argentinian soil they listened to a

wire tap between yusu Kil and Abdul Kim P this was reported in the lanon newspaper which is one of the top newspapers in Argentina and Yu told Karim that he had met the head of the Vatican intelligence services in Argentina a guy called Hector Louie Yia and they'd agreed to introduce him to the head of Vatican intelligence the Vatican intelligence Chief in Argentina told Yousef he was a Freemason and so was Pope Francis so you've listened to that recording and you've verified that that's what was said is that correct yes exactly it is a phone

recording of eight minutes because when Joffrey said that on television okay I know that he's very serious doing investigations about all these things but I was thinking I need to listen the recording and I got access to the recording and I listened the whole recording and he said that Pope Francis is airation you've also cited in your book how in 2013 Angel H clavo the then grandmas of the Argent Grand Lodge which is a Freemasonry Lodge told one of the top newspapers in Argentina that although there's not a fluid relationship between Freemasonry and the Catholic

Church the Jesuits of which of course Pope Francis is one are the closest sector from Catholicism and he pointed out quote there have even been Jesuits who with the permission of their priors or provincials have belonged to Freemasonry so that's a very big hint from the Argentine Freemason Lodge that the pope or people close to him May in fact be linked to Freemasonry yes exactly and I think this because Freemasonry was very much against the Jesuit order mainly in the 16th century not just but mainly in the 16th century and with the Jesuits what the

same KES they were very much against Freemasonry and the holy Alliance that was the name of the Vatican intelligence service at that time the most of the intelligence Agents from the Vatican in in centuries past were Jesuits most of them and Freemasonry was very much against that but after some time they became more or less more friends now Gabriel why does this matter it matters to me journalistically because I'm fascinated by the links that my friend and uh informant David grush suggested to me in an interview last year with newsnation where he pointed to the

vatican's alleged role in the purported transfer of non-human technology an alien spacecraft no less in 1933 it crashed in magenta was held by the fascists under musolini seen by the Nazis but eventually covertly handed over to the Americans alleges David grush in about 1944 and this suggestion of a secret history with nhi technology a knowledge of non-human intelligence by the Vatican it certainly sits well with what you're saying about Pope francis's interest in the subject exactly and look you told me you told me before that the Jesuits are very are very Progressive if the most

Progressive branch in the Catholic Church all of them or almost all of them have phds I know some of them personally they are very good people I know them very well and they are very open about all this subject and I can tell you something more because for example when David grush said that PO pasos the 12 helped the US with that object okay the the main advisor of Pop P that 12 was a German Jesuit and he was the head of the entity the Vatican intelligence service at that time I said that it was

called The Holy Alliance but in 1936 according to Spanish Peruvian H journalist Eric fratini the name of the Vatican intelligence service changed in 1936 to the name was the entity until this day is the entity now that main advisor of po p that 12 that he was a Jesuit a German Jesuit he he also was the head of the entity at that time and he also had contacts with the FBI in the US and some agencies so I see very easy that maybe it was through him maybe that Pope Francis helped the US to to

took that device to that country I also find it fascinating and this is neither here nor there but Jesus James Angleton who went on to become the cia's head of Counter Intelligence as luck would have it Serendipity dictates he happened to be living and based for the OSS at the time the American equivalent of the CIA at the time in Milan in Northern Italy very very close to magenta exactly exactly and take in and take into account this because James Jesus Angleton during Second World War and after that he had intelligence contacts in the Vatican

okay during Second World War because of Nazi Germany invading Europe okay it was not because they liked each other very much but was by convenience okay because they had some enemies in common and after that they cooperated in Italy James Jus Angleton in Italy with poos that 12 after second world war and close to magenta and this German advisor of Pope Francis I think that it's a very good possibility that that work in that way so let's bring this even further into the present day because one of the things that just hit me like a

brick when I was doing my research was the incontrovertible evidence literally the emails of John podesta who was at the time a senior advisor to President Obama based in the white house and they were leaked by the Russians in incredible it was a guu disinformation operation they were leaked two Wikileaks and posted online they don't seem to be online at the moment somebody keeps on taking them down but what they reveal is that John podesta was being approached among other things by Edgar Mitchell the former Apollo 11 astronaut and Edgar Mitchell had sent an email

to podesta in January 2015 claiming that the Catholic Church knows all about an extraterrestrial intelligence engaging with planet Earth and um it it made much of the fact that the um Vatican had hosted Global seminars of the repercussions of humans interacting with ETI and how this will affect religion and Consciousness do you believe Edgar Mitchell's claims that the Vatican is essentially preparing Humanity for the inevitable moment when we're told about the existence of a non-human intelligence well I think that the answer is yes because like I told you the Vatican intelligence service is very behind

in in this topic now the other thing is that in those emails uh okay one of the persons that Dr Edgar Mitchell was doing trying to contact with John podesta was through a friend and that friend is tereny Mansfield and that was revealed in Wikileaks and she wrote to John podesta about the possibility to talk with Dr Edgar Mitchell about disclosure in the US about the extraterrestial intelligence about and also to talk to John podesta about what the Vatican knows about about extral intelligence because in the past the the Vatican used to chur some important

information about this with other countries but those emails those emails doesn't name which countries the Vatican share that information I find it intriguing those those Wikileaks emails are probably the most overlooked bit of evidence to show that there was very clearly prior to the 2016 presidential election there was very clearly negotiations underway between between senior Generals in the Pentagon a senior member of loed Martin skun skunkworks Robert Vice and John podesta in apparent cont contemplation of a Hillary Clinton Victory there was clearly a contemplation that there would be some kind of controlled disclosure about non-human

intelligence in 2017 by President Hillary Clinton you have to wonder sometimes what would have happened if history had gone that way in 2017 yes exactly because uh one thing that is very interesting to me is this and I am not saying oh I believe this no no no it just that it's very interesting why right now in this moment when in the US there are happening a lot of things about this subject trying to reveal what the US government knows why exactly this Pope is in this moment the pope more open about this subject because

take into account that after that Jon podesta was seen in Italy eating in a restaurant with a Freemason that had access in the Vatican he that Freemason was in contact with the head of the Vatican Observatory at that time Jose Gabriel FES and what did what did uh father FAS say please remind our audience what father FAS said about the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence I don't know if this was uh with with some purpose but that announcement was in May 13 of 2008 or 2009 I digress about the year but 2008 or 2009 I I

think it was in 2008 the thing it was that he said in public television that extraterrestial intelligence that was a very strong possibility and that do not contradict the Catholic faith now take into account this because before Pope Francis became Pope Jose Gabriel FES and bergoglio knew each other for many years in Argentina now in 2016 they are working all of this and that Freemason was in contact with Jose Gabriel FES and Jose Gabrielle FES and this Freemason used to help each other to open the door for going to some meetings in Russia to talk

about extraterrestrial intelligence there were people from us Freemasons from China from Israel and they used to talk about the possibility about all of this that maybe is in the scriptures in the Old Testament or in the New Testament in the Holy Bible so they used to talk about this and even they talked in Russia that that was true that there were extraterrestrial intelligences that were visiting the Earth and that information went to the Vatican through this freem well you've helped us dot the eyes and cross the tees very well my friend Gabrielle but there's one

final question before we do a wrap and that's coming back to what we introduced this show with which is the Pope's speculation about whether he would baptize a Martian what did he eventually say did he say he would be willing to baptize a martian well what I can say is this the context two things first the first thing the context was that we need to w we need to welcome to any person from any country that was the context but if you took the history his background in Argent with this subject maybe there was another

intention like a hint for the future regarding something to say so in closing it's fair to say you are speculating that Pope Frances may very well be very strongly inclined towards a fairly Progressive admission about the existence of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet yes and because this is small thought given that Pope Francis liked a lot Parini parin said about a new papacy for the future to unite the world and a future where extraterrestrial intelligence is going to be revealed to the world well at that closing I I think that's a really good

point to end on thank you for provoking all of us Gabrielle and we all look forward to reading your book and uh we'll make sure we display it in the end notes and uh make sure people can link to it but uh Gabrielle Pedra thank you so much for joining reality check and thank you for giving us a how does one say this a contrarian view on what the vetican really thinks about UFOs you're welcome Ross and thank you for having [Music] me thanks for watching go to join nin.com to find news Nation on your

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