How To Build A Successful Personal Brand in 2024 (Full Masterclass)

We were talking about personal branding at the end of yesterday, and I have a studio of one right now. The vision is for it to be more, but I'm curious if I should be building my personal brand or the studio brand. Anyway, I'm just like, where should I be focusing to try to get some traction? I'm still not sure if I fully am committed to this. What I'm about to say may not be fully formed, but I'm not sure there's such a thing as a business brand. There are things that people refer to as

a brand—in a business—but what they're really referring to is the efforts of a collective team of marketers, writers, and designers creating an experience. It's a collective thing, you know what I mean? It's kind of this way. I think a lot of us understand what brands do on a corporate level, which is to market to us. Their whole goal is to get us to do something. What I'm trying to do, and when people speak about personal branding, is that they use the same literal language for corporate branding and bring it over to personal branding. They're designing

whatever it is they're teaching you to help you sell more things. I don't know about you, but I'm just tired of people trying to sell me something. I'm just kind of allergic to it now. So when I try to teach people about personal branding, it's not so much that I'm trying to sell you anything; it's mostly that I want to know who the hell I'm supposed to be in this life. I want to heal and show up 100% as I am, and oddly enough, when I can do that, I seem to attract more people to

me. If you read Marty Neumeier's writings, especially in "Brand Flip," he goes, "We don't want to be sold things, but we love to buy." And as it evolves, we find that we don't want to buy; we join tribes because we're looking for connection and meaning in our lives. I’d like to go into the history of branding a little bit, and you'll start to understand why we are where we are and how we may want to have a different dialogue about it. I'm telling you right now, for every single person who is here and wants to

develop their personal brand, if you do it the way I hope you'll do it, you'll have a competitive advantage over everybody else who is doing it the wrong way. And I’ll just be as polarizing as to say there’s a right way and there’s a wrong way. Okay, just to make the argument: for most of our civilization, whether you believe in creation or evolution, we've been around for a long time. We've had to procure our own food sources and make our own supplies. It's only in the last, let’s say, 100 years that we've been going through

this Industrial Revolution, this Industrial Age, where specialization starts to happen. We’re no longer growing our own food. So what happens is, as we get into specialized skills and industrial manufacturing, there’s a disproportionate amount of options that arise. Living in small towns, there’s a local grocer, a general goods store, and only one kind of flour. As more people specialize, competition happens; now they have to distinguish themselves from each other and create identity. It’s just a distinction of points of differentiation, right? It makes sense. As the small town grows into a really big town, the grocer no

longer knows you on a personal level and can’t make recommendations anymore. So now that job is put on the companies. The company, therefore, has to find ways to engage with customers through their packaging, design, materials, colors, and messaging. Now we have all these options, and one company is trying to prevent another company from being a counterfeit version, thereby damaging their relationship with customers because they’ll get upset and say, "We didn't sell you that." This is the evolution of identity design and marketing. Now, especially in the 21st century, we don’t have just one kind of flour

or one kind of toothpaste; we have too many kinds of both. The modern concept of branding, I think, is only about 30 years old or so, and it’s been heightened by the internet and social media. Because now, instead of going somewhere and having limited choices, we have even unlimited choices. So let’s try to understand this: branding is preference. Branding is when I have an irrational emotional connection to a thing that I shouldn't have but I do, because we are irrational, emotional people. We’re creatures designed to respond emotionally, so we kind of understand that, right? Everything

you need to understand about branding, I think I just told you: story, format, differentiation, and preference. The way that I choose, because we are now wealthier than we've ever been individually, there’s less disease, we live longer, and we’re theoretically healthier, means that we have more resources and more choice. Instead of survival, we’re looking for meaning. There’s a quote from Ann Lappe: “Every dollar you spend is a vote for the kind of world you want to live in.” When I buy Arrowhead versus Voss versus Fuji, I’m saying I would like for those companies to thrive. I

joke with my kids because my wife and I like this little Korean teriyaki chicken place called Teriyaki. They hate it, but my wife and I love it; it’s tasty, it’s fresh, it’s clean eating. My older son is like, "Dad, oh no! You want to eat there? They're going to go out of business!" Like, boy... They've been in business longer than you've been alive, and I say if they're going to go out of business, I'm going to go over there and buy 1,000 chickens. And now he's like, "Why would you do that?" 'Cause I want to

support them. Why do I care about them? I don't know; I can't even tell you why. I mean, maybe because when I was an art center student or working around here, it was an affordable meal, and I have some weird connection to that. Every time I take a bite, maybe it transports me back 30 years. I'm reminded of my starving self. I'm like, "This is good, still good today." So we have an emotional, irrational connection. Do you want people to have a preference for what you do? Probably. Then you have a brand. If not, you're

a commodity. Now here's what we know too: every product has a story. Some stories are good; some stories are not worth mentioning. What's the story of Arrowhead? Everybody gets I'm standing out this bottle. I'm almost certain Arrowhead is just filtered water. What's the story of Fiji? Does anybody know the story of Fiji? It feels exotic. Who said that? Exotic? Yeah, it feels exotic 'cause I’m on vacation, and then they introduce this language. What did they say? "Artisanal." It's artisanal water! Wow! Untouched by humans, filtered through lava rock of the Fijian islands. And then you know

what they do? If you look at the bottle—first of all, the bottle's different. Most bottles look like this; their bottle is kind of square. And on the back of the bottle, as you're looking through the water, you see a little bit of Fiji. You see what they're doing to you. As far as I know, this came from Colorado and came out of the tap, but it’s a good story. I don't know what this bottle of Arrowhead costs; I'm assuming not much—that's why we have it. It's like a 35-cent bottle. A bottle of Fiji is like

three bucks. A bottle of Voss is like five bucks 'cause it has a different story. Why am I talking about all this stuff? What's your story? How manufactured is your story? What is the integrity and the authenticity of your voice? Is it there? I tell people I see dangerous things because I pretend like I know what I'm talking about. But as I look into this idea, there's Carl Jung. He talks about this—that there are two selves, and it's regulated by our ego. Our ego manages who we're going to be in the world. There's the persona,

which you're all very familiar with; it’s who you pretend to be to be accepted in society. And all of us have an inner persona; we are—it's undeniable. And then there's this other side. What are we managing? On the other side of the persona is your shadow self. It's the ugly stuff. It's the stuff that no one wants to talk about. It's the stuff that brings you shame, and you feel like if you were to expose that, you'll be ostracized. And there's a good chance you might be. From childhood, maybe we're like seven or nine years

old, you've gotten the persona put on you by your parents, most likely. You know, as a kid, you've said it yourself if you have children, and it's definitely been said to you: "Don't stare at that person; it's not nice." That’s just you being you! Or, "I want to eat that," or, "I want to go there," and "I think that person’s funny," or "I think they're cool." You just say whatever it is you want to say because the ego hasn’t been taught how to regulate how you show up in public. Right? And like if you eat

your boogers when you're three years old, people are like, “Don’t do that!” People get freaked out. But it’s tasty; it’s salty; it’s a good snack; it’s all-natural; it’s not GMO. Right? And you're like, you can’t do that! So we all stop eating our boogers. So what happens is when you show up and pretend to be somebody that you're not for long enough, you forget who the hell you are. And when we get into the personal branding stuff, all I'm trying to do is get people to remember—that's it. It’s not invention; it’s memory. My wife is

really into everything related to quantum physics—quantum particles, quantum entanglement. So she’s into this whole quantum thing, and she's deep into conspiracy theories and weird pyramid schemes and Freemason guilds—like, "Babe, just don’t give anybody our money, okay? Explore as much of that as possible, just don’t fall into the cult hole. I just, please." But she shows me these videos, and they’re fascinating for me to watch because she introduces me to concepts I’m uncomfortable with, and that’s a really cool part of my relationship with my wife. She goes, "Look at this guy! He's from Argentina or something.

He has a heavy accent, and he calls himself a 'rememberer.'" Do you guys know about this? It’s a fascinating concept. Okay, so you know there are a lot of strange things that are happening, so I'm going—if you indulge me, I'm going to take you down a weird conspiracy theory hole. Okay? Can we go? I’m going to go—none of which I believe, but this is the story I’m learning. Okay? There are a couple of complex concepts, and I think Chris Nolan has been exploring these concepts—the idea that there are multiverses. Do you realize how many different

things in film and media and cinema are talking about multiverses, like multidimensional things that are happening, and time being like this fluid thing? And it’s starting to get really complicated. So... One of the theories is that the future version of ourselves, far into the future, are trying to communicate with the current version of ourselves, and the time thing is not even a real thing because the old versions of ourselves are here too. It's all happening simultaneously, and there are these “rememberers” who have not forgotten a single thing that humanity has gone through, and they will

tell you what ancient versions of us know. It's wild stuff, but I don't know if I believe it because they ask them questions, and they go into these weird states, right? They are speaking and being channeled through because future and past versions are speaking to them. So, they have groups like this, and people ask them questions about, “So, where are the aliens? What's happening? What are they?” And then they give these strange answers. I say strange because they're horribly vague and nonspecific. I want dates, I want facts, I want figures, and they just give strange

answers. Everybody is like, “Oh,” and I’m like, “No, I want more specifics!” But the idea of a rememberer is pretty cool—someone who's not forgotten, like ancient wisdom throughout humanity. Okay, I'll give you one more part, and then I'll bring it back to personal branding. It's connected, I promise. The theme that I wanted to explore with you is: Can you remember who you are? And if you can, are you then courageous enough to show that? It's kind of an interesting thing, so let me share with you concept number one: True strength comes from weakness; it comes

from vulnerability. And let's explore this concept. Okay, if you were to think of some of the people you admire the most throughout history—the ones who stood for something, the ones who were captivating and had ideas, who were philosophers and could move whole groups of people with just their words, the ones who seem super comfortable in their own skin, who weren’t these charlatans trying to sell you something—there’s probably a handful of people that you think of in your mind, right? And it’s not typically like who’s portrayed today. Today, if you ask some young people who this

iconic person is they’re thinking about, they might say “The Rock.” He’s popular, has millions of followers, he’s like some alpha dude, right? With muscles on top of muscles, and they’re like, “Well, that’s who I aspire to be.” What names come to your mind when you think about throughout history? Who are some of these people that really stood for something? You’ll start to notice a pattern. Hopefully, I can land the plane and just talk to you about that. Who do you think some of those people are? Just shout out a name. “Gandhi!” you say. “Gandhi, for

sure.” “What’s that?” “M.” “Okay, for sure. Anybody else?” “Like Socrates.” “Right? Who?” “Socrates.” “Yes, of course. Mandela. I also think of somebody like the Dalai Lama.” Are these physically strong people? I think of Mother Teresa; she’s pretty frail. Gandhi's a pretty skinny dude, you know? Everybody's like—not physically imposing—but, you know, you look at them and you just see strength, courage, and conviction. And that’s why I say true strength comes from weakness. And so when you look at the models on social media, all we have are images of strength. So, I know something in marketing—just one

simple concept—and it seems to be true every single time, which is: when everybody’s doing this, don’t do that. Just do this other thing. When everyone zigs, you zag. And when everyone zags, you zag again. Right? If everyone is doing a linear thing, do a curve of linear thing. All you need to do is go in the opposite direction of everybody, and you will stand out. So if you want to be able to stand out—and we see it all the time—images of perfection, strength, glamour, and success—they just gotta go the opposite way, and they’re like, “That’s

refreshing.” I don’t know if the Dalai Lama is wealthy; I can’t tell because all he does is wear robes. He has nothing, but yet I think he lives richly. And the people who have been able to meet him say similar things like there’s an aura, an energy. And I think, “Why are people drawn to that?” So, there’s something about this, right? And so it’s a struggle for all of us to be able to say, “Well, how much of myself do I want to show?” and “How much of this is just me trauma dumping, and what

is the intentionality behind this?” when you see people do that. Because people do do that, and you kind of get grossed out by it too. So there’s something weird here, and I think it has a lot to do with your intention. We can smell intention from a mile away, right? When you tell a story that seems to be vulnerable and all it is, is you just seeking attention, and that’s your intention, we can see it. “Oh, I’m tired of you crying about XYZ all the time.” You have to kind of work at this and be

guided through this process. Now, some of you have gone to the pro group and the calls when I started to explore personal branding through the lens of pop culture. It’s evolved quite a bit. I’m not saying it’s radically different, but I’ve refined it. There’s an evolution of the exercise and getting people to think about this. So here’s one thing: if y’all want to work on your two-word branding, I’ve been trying to figure out how to make it easier for you to figure this out. Number one is, rather than come up with words that you love

about yourself, let’s just start with words that you’re like... "Move! Those are my shadow words because let's start from a place of vulnerability and truth. And so what I do is, now I instruct people to write as many words as they can from the lens of not liking themselves. Just write all those words down, and then we can write words that people who don't like us would say about us. Then we say, what about the trolls? What about a critical parent? Just write down as many words as possible. Then we start to separate the words

that have no emotional triggering effect for us and we really look at the ones that have a triggering effect. In order for you to show courage, it has to be uncomfortable for you to reveal it. Typically, when I instruct people to do the two-word brand, you know what they say? It's like, 'I'm charmingly handsome.' They don't literally write that, but it sounds like that to me. 'I'm a creative genius, a genius designer.' I'm like, 'What? What are you doing here? What are you doing?' Because you know why—they just think about marketing and sales. Marketing, sales—they

go right back to corporate branding. It's like, I'm just tired of that. So now what I instruct people to do is I just say, go with all your dark, horrific shadow words and sit in that kind of discomfort for some time. Then what we do is we take your shadow word—usually one or two words, that's it! You're only allowed to use one or two words for a shadow word. So if you can't describe it in one or two words, you chat with GPT and ask it for one or two words to describe some complex thing,

right? It'll figure it out for you; it's good at that kind of stuff. Then the next thing you want to do is add a transformer word. This is where the magic happens—where you make a negative a positive. There's something very therapeutic about this. So when you can reveal to the world, 'I don't like this about myself,' but you have the transformer word, 'but I've learned to accept it. I've learned to embrace this thing that I've hid from everybody for a really long time.' Tom Ross—you guys know who Tom Ross is? He's the founder of Design

Cuts. He was in the London Workshop, of course. He's like, 'Chris, I think I got my word.' I'm like, 'What is it?' He says, 'I'm a people pleaser.' I'm like, 'Okay, not exactly a good word. It's not like you walk around yelling, "I'm a people pleaser!" It's not a good word.' But he goes, 'Is it wrong if I tell people I'm a people pleaser?' I'm like, 'If that's your word, what are you going to do about it? Transform it, man.' He goes, 'That's all I got.' No, no, no, really, I had a transformer word. 'Why

is being a people pleaser so important to you?' He goes, 'Man, because I run communities. If you run a community, it's good that you're tuned to what other people need.' You see how he started to evolve his thinking around this? Where it's a negative word, how did it help you? Why is it an advantage? And he found it. Ten, fifteen minutes later, he comes back. 'I got it! Look what you got!' I'm like, 'Is there a shorter way to say that?' He goes, 'I don't think so.' Well, why don't you sleep on it and see

what else you come up with? So now he goes around telling people he's a proud people pleaser. The cool thing about it is, when you land your two- or three-word brand, what happens is it's not supposed to be the whole story; it's just a title to the movie, a title to the book. It has to be intriguing enough that somebody's like, 'Let me open to chapter one. What does that mean, Tom? What is a proud people pleaser?' And that's when he gets to tell the story about how he did X, and now he's here, and

this is why this happens, and then it summarizes you. So what happens is, when you find your two- or three-word brand, it becomes a lens through which you can tell stories. Because remember, if you're a product without a story, and you are definitely a product, then you're a commodity. So somebody out there—not for everybody—will be intrigued by this whole idea of a people pleaser, and they're going to want to get to know Tom. They might want to interview him; they might want to join his community, his tribe, because maybe that's what they're looking for— a

place where they get to feel important, like they're a priority to someone in their life. So now that becomes an asset. He took a liability and turned it into an asset. So you all have infinite stories that can reinforce who you are in the world, that people then can say, 'I want to be part of that. I can choose anybody, but I choose you.' You can't do it if you're not willing to show up and show yourself. Okay, does that make sense? Somebody else that you can study, I guess it’s just the London Workshop here,

is James Martin, made by James MBJ. He does a lot of local work. James is kind of an adorable character. He's a bearded guy—he's like the British Aaron Draplin, but like hipper. Yeah. And James tells you stories about his troubles with sex, being sexually molested, dealing with drugs and alcohol. He talks about it all the time. So he goes, 'Chris, what do I do with this? This is like...'" There's a lot here to unpack, right? He started to come up with different words and combinations; he's got a lot of stuff to work with. I won't

tell you how he landed it, but he did land the plan. I brought him up because a woman came over to me, and she said, "Chris, I had a relatively normal childhood. I don't have any trauma, you know, no one abused me, I wasn't assaulted. Do I manufacture something?" I'm like, "No, please don't do that! Don't create false trauma; you don't have to have trauma." Being a people pleaser is not traumatic. So, we automatically see how our brains are wired: as soon as somebody does that, we think, "That must be normal; I'm going to go

do that." If we had a room here and you all started pouring out, just talking about all the abuse and neglect that you've had in your life, one person might say, "No, I had it pretty good," and they might manufacture something just so they can fit in. It's all about fitting in, and if you want to stand out, how can you fit in? That's the name of the game here. When you're building a personal brand, you have to give someone a story that they can understand and relate to. It's in the imperfections, it's in the

flaws that we relate to. Pixar's 22 rules of storytelling say that we admire people or characters more for their struggles than for their successes. So, the proud people pleaser now has a filter and a lens; he can tell infinite stories. He can search through the memory banks of his life and just pull out the moments that seem to connect to this theme. What happens is it becomes a lens that crystallizes all of your stories. If I tell you, "Say, we're going to have each one of you grab the mic and tell a story," you're going

to flounder. Many of you will ramble on; most of you have no point. It would be totally incoherent and uninteresting to most of us. But all of a sudden, I say, "Tell a story that sets the origin of why you're a people pleaser." Much easier! Tell a story when being a people pleaser was an advantage and when it's been a disadvantage. And so now you know how to search for the story. Your life is kind of like the internet; it's vast, it could be infinite. When you understand your two-word or three-word brand, it's like now

you have Google, and it can serve up the results. You just go through the top 25 stories, and you can quite literally turn that into talks. You can use that to write a book; you can do some pretty powerful stuff. But you need to give people something to bite down on. My example is, and it's not a great one, because you're like, "This is where you don't want to do what I've done; you want to do what I'm telling you to do. Do as I say, not as I've done." Yeah, because Mo's like, "But Chris,

what would you say then? What's the light?" I already got a question, but it's not about this. No, it's about, it's not about what you're about to say. Oh, what about what you're doing and what you've already done? What's working for you? Why do I need to follow what you say? It's always the same. I'm looking at it from the point of view of an instructor, or a coach, or an advisor. I'm looking at you and I'm saying, "Here's how I would do it if I were you in your shoes today." Right? So you guys

know I use the loud introvert thing, and it seems to work pretty well for me. You're like, "That's not very vulnerable; where's your shadow word, bro?" Okay, it's not. I'm going to just be honest with you—it’s not because I didn't sit down like, "How am I gonna manufacture how I can do this?" I just did what I did, and it's working. But then if you try to do it, here's what inevitably happens, and some of you in this room might feel triggered as soon as I say this. They're like, "Chris, you're a loud introvert; I'm

a shy extrovert!" They like shut up; you don't just take what I do and flip it around. It happens every single freaking time. How long did it take you to come up with? "We want to be you!" No, we want to shut up! It doesn't work; that's what they do. And they're like, "Chris, Chris, they got it!" And they do some weird version of that, and they think they're geniuses. You guys, I'm like, "I wonder how you came up with that? You mean just flip the words backwards, and it's done?" That required zero, zero, zero

soul searching. You think you're so clever; here's 55 other people who went to the workshop and came up with the exact same stupid thing. Now, some of you might want to change your LinkedIn profile right now. Like, "Oh, okay, that was me; that was me," right? You don't want to do that. But I'll tell you how it works for me: you'll notice a very specific pattern, because I'm very formulaic in how I do things. If something works, I try to do more of it to prove if it works right. And you'll see my LinkedIn posts

follow a very similar format, and it almost always lands on somehow I'm an introvert. And all the introverts—there are lots of us in the world, apparently. Especially in the creative circles, they're like, "I feel seen! This is good to know. This is really you. I didn't know you struggle with that. I didn't know you have your dark days when it comes to media and public speaking." And I'll tell you right now, uh, kind of almost like, just looking at the data from the posts that I have, the ones where I touch on those painful moments

will outperform by three to one. So they have 3,000 engagement versus 1,000; I can almost guarantee you. And if you're not sure and you don't want to believe me, just go back, search for me on LinkedIn, filter by post, and just look at engagement. Read the story, look at engagement, read the story, and you'll see. And I'll never run out of those stories; there's an infinite number of them. What's really cool is most of you are like, "I have no stories to tell." As soon as you figure out your two- to three-word brand, you're like,

"I have too many stories to tell," and you'll start to unlock memories that you thought were lost. It's a really cool thing. I told my wife this a few years back: I said, "It's strange because as you get older, you're supposed to forget things, you know, early-onset dementia, all those kinds of things." But I'm like, "I am remembering things I didn't even know I knew." It's pretty wild. So you're rebuilding those synaptic nerves or pathways from memories that have been lying dormant for a long time. And I'm sure if you do a brain scan of

me as I'm thinking about the stories, you're going to see different parts light up in my brain, and it's a pretty cool thing. Right? So you all have infinite stories that can reinforce who you are in the world. That way, people can say, "I want to be part of that. I can choose anybody, but I choose you," or, "I choose you." You can't do it if you're not willing to show up and show yourself. Personal branding. You had another question: "Am I building my personal brand, or am I building a brand for my studio, like

a personality for means for making?" I don't know what you're doing. You said, "Am I building this? Are you asking me, should I?" Yeah, like, should I? Okay, let's do the question one more time: "Should I, as a studio of one, be focusing on building a personal brand or building out a personality for my studio?" Okay, let's try to understand this then. Okay, you're a studio of one, so your personal brand is just you. Figure out who the hell you are. Figure out your point of view, your beliefs, your values, your interests, your origin story,

your transformative story—all those kinds of things. That's you. If your studio has one person, I don't understand the conflict. Then are you going to create something else for your company? Well, when I think about a studio, I feel like you have more clout when you're a team, right? Like, that I'll get while land bigger clients than I'm just Ellen. So, which is why I've created Means for Making and talk about my collaborators. And yeah, so that's why Means for Making—instead of just saying, "I'm Ellen Keith Shaw"—like, Means for Making does stand for something; I stand

for something, too, right? But I think it was, and I still believe that I don't want to be running my business just as me. I think it's very different for some folks who are offering kind of different. Okay, yeah, there are some things here I want to take apart. Sure. And I want you to imagine I'm writing this on a whiteboard 'cause I don't want to get up. Let's just imagine that that's the case. Okay, your statement is: "I feel like I have more clout if it's a team bigger than me." And that's the vision

that it is—fine, just full stop there. "I have more clout if it's more than me," and a lot of people here would believe that too. You're bigger. Okay, so we're going to practice critical thinking. I need to find one example where that's not true, and then your theorem falls apart. You know what I'm saying? It’s like we can't disprove gravity, so therefore gravity must be real. Follow? Like the Earth was flat, and then we did experiments, and then we found the Earth was not flat at all; it was round. Now the old theory goes away.

So, if you want to be a critical thinker, to be like a deep thinker, philosophical-minded, who's got, like, these gems, what you want to do is every thought you have— the first thing you should do is try to disprove your own thinking. And the way this works is very powerful; this is how I always win my arguments. So I win the battle, lose the war sometimes when it comes to my wife. I'm like, "I was right," and she sleeps in the other room, right? You never win; you never win. Okay, so what we're going to

try to do is we're going to try to disprove this statement: that I have more clout as a team versus as an individual. So we need to find one example where an individual has more clout, and we might have to define what clout means. Okay? And we'll do that together. And then we'll see, and we might want to revise our thinking. Is that fair? I don't know yet; this is not premeditated, of course. She didn't text me before, "I'm like, Ellen's going to talk about this," so we just have to work through this. Scott, just

hang tight for a sec. I'll get you what "CL" means. Um, appealing to a level of client and a budget—yes, that's how I think I'm clout. That's pretty fair. I love the way you went super tactical with that. I thought you were going to give me some fluffy cloud, and you didn't, so I appreciate that. It means I have access to bigger brands and clients, and the amount of money I can charge is much bigger. Fair, fair. Those are really good things. Now we can objectively say we’ll take the word "clout" out, and we can

say, do we know individuals who have access to really big brands and clients who are able to charge more—relatively speaking—than a team? Dan, Mo, Gon, Seth, Gon, James Martin, Aaron, Drer, and Drin, probably. But the thing is I don't want to be any of those people. I want to work in collaboration with other folks. That's fine, yeah, but that's a personal preference. It's not that I need to work with those brands and charge that kind of amount of money; therefore, I need to present myself as a team. I can charge as much as I want,

and I just so happen to want to collaborate with others. There’s a refinement of thinking there, and when you're able to be that clear, then you can communicate that to people. Like you see, now I understand who you are, Ellen, and there’s just a slight difference there. Now, maybe some of you are like, "Chris, you're getting really pedantic," and you're just chopping up words. I'm not, because words shape thinking. Oh, absolutely, right? Like, we don't want to get into legalese and all that kind of stuff, but is the idea different enough that it's worth us

exploring? I think it is, 'cause I can think of lots of people, an army of one, who've done better than a whole collaboration. Let's think about musicians. What bands were better after they broke up and went solo acts? Tom Petty. Who else? Kind of Justin Timberlake? Yeah, oh yeah, think about that: Justified, man. Beyoncé. There you go: Destiny's Child. Negativity will get you banned in here. I'm just going to put that out there right now, Jo. We're not going to disrespect Des. We're not going to disrespect DC. You see, not always better together, but sometimes.

That could have been somebody's tagline. You just got to get clear about what it is that you think, okay? So let’s not go and say, “Let's do that because that's what the world wants.” Actually, I don't think that's what the world wants sometimes. I think—I’m not saying you specifically, Ellen—but sometimes we're uncomfortable; maybe the word might be insecure. We want to do something because that solves that problem, but then that's not us. I think you're powerful as a human being, just as one person. I want to bring this back to personal branding. You have a

story; you have a truth. How much you want to lean into that is up to you. I am too old, too cantankerous to care what you think to change who I am, so I’m just going to show up as myself. If you don't like it, I understand. I can be offensive; I can, and it's okay. But I'm not willing to change that because I've accepted that part of my dark side. I'm just okay with it. There was a different time in my life when I would have done anything to get your approval, to get you

to like me. And I'm looking at that time, and in this time, I’m much happier, much healthier, much more successful being this cranky bastard than I was at this play-kidding wiener. So when did you come to accept and switch your dark side? I think I was lost for a while, Dgo, and I think when I was in college, I found myself. I found that I could be good at something, and I put my heart and soul into that thing, and that allowed me to rebuild myself. I think if you’re like one day, 18, you don’t

know who the hell you are; you just do what everybody tells you to do. What your society, your culture, your church, your parents, your grandparents, your cousin, your uncle, whoever, your auntie—you just do whatever they tell you to do. But for me, I was a person desperately seeking Chris. You know, like I’m looking for something right now, and when I found graphic design, and more specifically typography, Dgo, I’m like, “I think I can do this, and I can be good at this.” I can suck at everything else in my life; you can think I’m total

dog trash, but I’m going to be good at type. And I became really good at type, and so I'm like, “Okay, that’s my identity. I’m a designer, a typographer, and I’m going to put all my energy, my heart, and soul into this.” And from there, I started to have a trunk to build branches off of. And it’s like, I don’t know if you watch this guy, he’s always showing you how to recycle seeds and fruit. He’s super high energy, and he goes like, “Disend!” That guy! You know what I’m talking about? He’s got a signature

move. Like, he’s a little bit too much fun energy for me, but I keep watching him. There’s a whole process in which you can take a cutting into a tree, and he has all these steps. But once the tree has taken root, and it’s strong, and you can transfer it outside, it’s going to be all right. It doesn’t take that... Much effort. You just put a little water on it; it's fine. But in the beginning stages, you’ve got to mist it, put cinnamon, and you’ve got to do all these kinds of weird stuff. I watched

the video, you know? So for me, designed in typography was that trunk and the roots set, and over time, the roots just get stronger and deeper so they can withstand a gale-force wind. And that was it! Trio, I needed to find something I could build my identity on. So if you peel back all the layers, and now you know, like every tree, there are rings that show you the age of the tree. At the center of it is probably designer, and maybe outside of that is teacher, and then entrepreneur, and then motion designer and director.

It just keeps growing and growing. But if you cut back all the way to that core—we don't have to go back there—the tree is much stronger now, but that would be the core. When you find your core, everything's pretty easy. That would be my take on that. Mo, I know you wanted to say something, and we cut you off. So, something that I want to just share—something that I learned from him a few years back on a phone call—about asking questions when I'm in a tough spot. He would tell me that people are usually looking

more for permission than they are for answers. A "should" question is one that he can't necessarily answer; he can only guide you to the answer that you want. And I'm paraphrasing because my memory is not as good as his, but as I was listening to you, I feel like you've already made up your mind. As I was listening to you yesterday, and today, when you framed it, and the whole group said, “Should I do personal branding or business branding?” it just felt like you had the answer. Even when he said it, you were like, “Well,

clout,” and you guys kept favoring business branding. So the lesson for me is that I just have to find my own discernment in my choice and be okay with that because no one can hold the accountability but me. And that's why he can't answer a "should" question, because he can't be accountable for whatever you decide to choose. So that's just a lesson that I learned from him that I wanted to share with you that might help you in the future. That’s helped me. I don't know if it's pushback or just a question, but my impression

right now is, in our culture, particularly in American culture, being honest and transparent is becoming really popular. What can we do to ensure that we're not pandering? Don't do something just because it's popular or unpopular; do it because it's true. If being a good parent or a faithful partner is all of a sudden trending, I don't want to do that. If it's good, it's good. I think what we do is we sometimes look at some signals and over-magnify them in our minds. We see a handful of people getting into vulnerability, and they seem to be

doing really well; we assume like everybody's there. I can almost tell you right now, 99% of the world ain't doing it. And we falsely equate, like, four people. We think, because of the way it registers in our minds, right? Brené Brown, Joe Koy does a pretty good job of this, and people owning their story. Hasan Minhaj, he's doing it; it's like, “Wow, this is really cool!” I'm trying to get other people to do it just because that's the right thing to do. It doesn't matter if it's trendy or not; it doesn't matter. What is the

alternative? I don't get it. Like, let's just say, for example, if therapy is helping lots of people right now, and all of a sudden it's like the new LA thing to do, and like, “I'm not going to do that; I'm too cool for school.” You're saying, “I'm going to screw myself over because I'm a non-conformist; I'm a rebel without a clue.” I think, as humans, people are good at discernment, and we can tell who's putting on and who's being genuine. Over time, like the consistency with this is who you are; we can tell, and we

know, like, “Okay, you're moving with the trend.” You know, this one is just being honest and genuine. So I think that's what sets it apart. I think that's a good thing. Like we said before, we can smell intention a mile away. We know who's doing it fake, and it's a bit, and they're going to do it. That's fine; you'll fool some other people some of the time. If I'm doing something as a carousel on Instagram, and there are like 3,000 other people doing it, I don't really care what they do. I'm not going to change

because they just are doing the same thing. I don't even care. I'm only going to change because I feel like it's time for me to evolve and change. That's all it is. Like if you're a classic jeans-and-t-shirt guy with a jacket, just because everybody's doing it, what are you going to do? There are other ways to be different. So I wanted to speak to your question about how do we know if it's a bit? How do we know if our vulnerability is performative? I just ask, “Am I doing this—whatever the thing is—for validation, for praise,

or for approval?” And if it's yes to any or all of those things, then it's not true vulnerability; it's not even a bit, but it comes across. Disingenuous. It comes across as inauthentic, and sometimes it seems like you’re not ready. When you’re not ready, then you land in this arena of trauma dumping. I have a much easier way to understand this. Sure, let me try this on you guys. Okay, if you were to write in your journal, no one’s supposed to read that. You’re not doing it because you want someone to read it; you’re writing

because that’s how you have to understand yourself, to process your thoughts. That’s really how you should create content. Now, I’ll give you another example. Let’s just say you knew your mom read your journal, and you wrote things in there so that your mom would treat you a little nicer, let you go out with your friends. That’s what we’re seeing. You can smell it. I want you to read this because I want you to do something: I want you to feel sorry for me. I want you to open the door for me. I want you to

let me stay out later. But it’s just for you. Okay, who am I? It’s a really big question. It’s not one that’s easy to answer, so it’s not like you’re going to just crank out something and you’re done. When you’re 17, you’re still trying to figure out who the hell you are. Some of us are really lucky, and we get to figure that out early. Some of us are still working through it, and some of us will never get there because it requires a level of introspection and discomfort for you to get there. We know

friends write things we like, “Oh my God,” because you know the real person, and then you’re like, “What the hell are you writing right now?” We know. I don’t feel mad or anything; I just think it’s a cry for help. Then I’m DMing them, like, “That’s fake AF! When are you going to show up?” And they get super offended, like, “What do you mean?” I’m like, “You know when you said this, you stopped there? Why didn’t you tell this part? ‘Cause I know that part.” They’re like, “Well, Chris, people are going to get upset.” I’m

like, “You see, you stopped because you already knew the rest of it. You’re just lying to yourself. Don’t give me half that story because it makes you look good. Give me the other half that makes you look bad and how you dealt with it, what it taught you.” Here’s another thing that you can usually tell in these stories—the good ones from the ones I like: Why is it in your story you’re always the hero? That’s also another good place to know. You’ll notice a lot of my story; someone else is the hero, not me. I’m

the idiot, usually in the story—not always—where someone else told me, “Stop doing this,” and I did it. When we talk about vulnerability and weakness, and other people jumping into your story, then they see themselves in you. Dan Gibbs has a funny way of saying this; it’s not her saying, but everybody’s trying to be the sage on the stage when you should just be the guide on the side. Everybody wants to be the star. So, these days, when I get up on the stage, I try to think, “How can I tell you I’m an idiot?” Then

all of a sudden, the guard gets lower. Hosi talks about this when he was on stage: “Let me tell you three things that are bad about me that I don’t like, and then I’ll tell you one thing I like.” By telling you three bad things that I don’t like, the one thing that I like has more weight and power. If he went on stage saying, “I’m good looking, I made a gazillion billion dollars, and I’m great at marketing,” like, no, we don’t believe him. You know what he said when he went up? He said, “You

were there. Grow with video.” He’s like, “I don’t know the first thing about content creation and content marketing. Actually, you all know much more about it than I do. I’m mostly a paid ads guy, and this is—but I’m shifting my thinking.” Everybody’s listening now: go look at your last post. Everybody in your mind is like, “Okay, did I do that?” Did you go on stage and tell people how you suck at a bunch of things, but you kind of know one thing? Maybe you say, like, now it’s become a formula. ‘Cause I am a formula

guy. When I figure out something works, I just do it again. And you’re like, “Are you manipulating?” Like, maybe. I don’t know. I just think if it works, why would I change it? So these days my posts usually begin with, “My God, here’s how stupid I am, and I struggle through it. Here’s the pain, but here’s the thing I learned, and I still need to remind myself every single time.” You’ll also get really suspicious of stories where I struggled all my life and I’m totally cured. Says who? Lie. I was hooked on heroin for ten

years. I’m perfectly clean now—never struggled with it again? Lie. And even if it were true, we don’t want to know that story. We don’t care about that story because it’s in the struggle that we get to know who you are, and we get to relate to you. It’s that way. So, Mo, if you ain’t feeling a little bit of pain, then maybe you need to dig a little deeper. It’s not about pain, but it’s just maybe more like discomfort. You have to be uncomfortable. Okay, ehor, and then we’re going to get to you. Well, what’s

your name again? Deon? We’re going to get to Deon because he’s been very… I want to bring us back a little bit before that story. The problem I have is when we see the content, especially if we follow the advice about vulnerability. What I see online is that I am tapping into someone's diary, and I'm exhausted from reading all these feelings. The problem I have with Anry Hansen's content is that it's all about her, and I lose this sense of what I'm doing here. Especially if I follow this advice thoroughly, I see more and more

people like us who are sharing and tapping into their vulnerable side without giving us something they promised initially, like a PR strategy or something else. I feel exhausted from just being exposed to other people trying to use us as followers to filter out and figure out their inner selves. How do we present ourselves and tap into our weaknesses, be vulnerable, and share content that resonates with people while still being helpful, doing business, and building a brand that brings some value to people—not only using people as a mirror to reflect on themselves? You said we are

being used. If you feel used, don't read some of this content. If you want to build a strong community and audience that shows up for you, you have to show up for them. The greater value you create for them, the transformations you are able to create for them, the more people will show up. The style and how you do it is part of your personality and your voice, so you can't just be all out there with your personality and voice all the time unless you're a really charismatic person. But even charismatic people need to provide

value. Joe Koy, for example, is a very charismatic person, but he makes us laugh; he gets us to point at our silly childhood and just laugh at ourselves. You could say, "Well, isn't Joe just doing therapy on stage?" and you could say yes, but they don't have to be mutually exclusive. You can be doing some form of self-therapy or self-healing while entertaining and giving value to other people. These are not either/or situations; it's oftentimes an "and." I suspect where you get a little bit upset is when it feels like it's just for you, and you

get nothing. I feel like when you build a personal brand, it becomes ours as well as yours. When I see content that is misaligned with the mission, I feel conflicted. Every person here who builds a relationship with the community, at some point, you don’t control the brand, and it’s often kind of upsetting because, like, what do you mean you're going to tell me what my mission is? I'm like, you know what your mission is—or do you? They'll say, "Nike is not behaving like themselves," and Nike is like, "Yes, we are." At some point, you should

feel so fortunate that your community knows you so well that they start to control the brand. When you act in a way that's inconsistent with the brand, they turn on you. Okay, it’s happening with Elon Musk right now. For a long time, Elon Musk just was like, "I'm trying to save the world; I'm a forward-thinking genius," and now he's all those things plus he's got some radical opinions about lots of weird stuff. Now people are like selling their Teslas; they don't want to be part of him anymore—so much so that people have stickers that they

put in their car: "Love the car, hate Elon," because they want to be clear. Oh yeah, especially in California: if the content doesn't serve you, you don't need to follow it. People have said this to me too; it’s like, "That’s not the future’s mission." Like, I'm pretty sure I know what I want; I'm pretty sure my argument starts with a premise. If you don't believe the premise, then an argument holds no weight. A product without a story is a commodity. Do we accept that? So if you are a product—let's just assume you're a product—and you

have no story, then you are therefore saying, "I'm a commodity; I'm easily replaced." Now, I don't know about you, but if you go on Instagram and you look up something like "portrait illustrator," that's a pretty specific thing you're looking for. You will find hundreds, if not thousands, of people who do the exact same thing. This is a problem: why would I choose one over the other? Now we think sometimes all I have to do is be good at what I do and tell the people in the world, "This is what I do." That’s a good

first step, and for many, they can’t get past that step. They're trying to talk to too many people; they're trying to say, "I do too many things," and we don’t believe any of those things. But let’s say you’ve done that—you’ve said, "I’m going to be for this type of person; I’m going to do this kind of thing." Well, now you compete with everybody who does that, and we're trying to differentiate even more, and the only way we can differentiate, as far as I can tell, is by telling a story. This isn’t about me me me

me; it’s not self-serving. It’s about saying, "If you care about the things that I believe in, this might resonate with you." That’s all it is. Let’s take 10 bottles of water. We just came from Mars, and there are 10 bottles of water here, and I take off all the labels. You still might prefer one shape or the other, but if I take all the water and pour it into the exact... Same container. Now, you cannot quite literally tell the difference between all these things, but that seems to be where a lot of people are at

in the creative space. We take our contents, our ideas, and we pour it out. We say there's no difference, so without the label, without the design, without the story, and the colors, and the materials, it's just like everything else. I want to choose companies that I want to see in business. Seth Godin writes in his book "All Marketers Are Liars" that we, the buyers and the manufacturers, are complicit in a mutually shared lie. This wine tastes better because they told us, and we believe them. This tennis racket is better because they told us, and we

believe them. We have to agree on the lie; the actual differences are much smaller than what we think. There are all kinds of people who swear up and down, "Oh, I'm so attuned to flavor and taste," and yeah, there are a couple of people like that, but most of it is just that you're unwilling to believe that you're complicit in the lie. You can read Seth's entire book; it's a couple hundred pages. It will come to the exact same conclusion: that they're lying and we're buying. So, if you think—if you've told yourself, "Now, if I

tell a story, it's too self-serving; it's all me, me, me, me,"—then you won't tell your story, and then you will be the commodity. But here's the weird thing: as I try to tell stories around what it is that I do, people get really excited about it, and they reward me with a couple of different things: one, greater reaction count; more engagement; and the amount of sharing and re-sharing; an invitation to speak about those kinds of things; and then I have authority for whatever reason because enough people say that it's just that. So it seems like

the more I test this concept, the more evidence I'm able to collect that seems to support that argument. Aaron James Draplin. You guys know who James Aaron Draplin is, anybody? He's a graphic designer, and if you talk to young designers and you ask them, "Who's the best designer you know?" he's going to make the top 10 list. He should not even be on the top 10 list. He's a good designer; he's a friend of mine, but he should not even be on there because there are legends and pioneers of Swiss, German, English, you know, design—American

pioneers—that should be, like, so deep. But why is Draplin on that list? Because people often associate fame with skill. And we can escape this. We buy something; we think it's good because we've heard people talking about it. It's just the way we are. Because we're social creatures, we depend entirely on the network of people that we know, like, or trust saying, "This is good," therefore we buy and use that thing. So, again, you need to help people be complicit in the lie. And this is strong language to say it's a lie; I know it's not

a lie. It’s just that there's a story I want to believe in. So I don't think it's self-serving. I think there are people who do it self-servingly. I think there are people who do it in a way to manipulate you. I think there are people who do it in a way that's really superficial and not really going to any real place. And we can see that; if we can't, we'll eventually figure it out. That's why when you see, like, some savvy marketers who tell you this heartstring kind of pulling story, I don't believe you. There's

something funny about the way this is packaged so carefully and the way that you're able to deliver it that I smell con artists. And there are a lot of them, and you know who they are. I'm not going to mention their names. Some people think I'm a con artist; I’m okay, cool, not for you. It's an odd position to be in; it really is. Do you guys know that the Chinese culture, the Chinese people invented gunpowder? Do you guys know this? Yeah, for fireworks. That's all they wanted; they couldn't think of anything else to do

with it. And then the Westerners were like, "Let's use gunpowder to kill people." Let's just say you're like that first Chinese chemist, like, "Hey, we take bird turd, we mix it together; we can make fireworks." It's going to lead to the annihilation of whole groups of people. And then Sandy Hook and everything else—are they responsible? I don't know; I mean, Oppenheimer explores this theme deeply. Just because you can, should you? And where do we go with this? And it's a super complicated question to ask. Here's what I'm thinking: I'm going to teach you what I

know. How do you want to use math or storytelling? That is your responsibility. I hope to attract the right kinds of people, but unfortunately, there are good seeds and bad seeds, and I also have a complicated worldview on this, right? I have a strange worldview because I argue with people all the time. Most of the time, I think I'm right, but my worldview is: I could be right and while arguing with you, you could be right, or you could be wrong, and I could be wrong at the same time. We all can be right, and

we all have different right answers. I have my way of doing it; I want to share it with you. I think I have a gift for teaching; that's all I want to do. Now, if you want to go make nuclear bombs, unfortunately, that's out of my control. I try to teach people how to write carousels and hooks, and then people... Use it to do horrible things, or they jack up the design, or they plagiarize other people's content. It's like not really the intention. There are people who watch the exact same video that have wildly different

outcomes. You know this. Several of the people on the internet will watch a video and say, "This doesn't work! This guy's a con; he doesn't know anything about business." "I would never work with a pompous a-hole like this person." That's one set of reactions, and there are quite a few of those reactions, apparently. Then there are these other reactions. When somebody texts me, "I just made $440,000 watching this video!" somebody else is like, "I just crossed six figures, seven figures, eight figures," whatever. I'm like, "Man, you need to send me some money; I got to

eat too!" Right? And it's from the same video. Nothing else is different—literally the same piece of content. This is the nature of people. You walk in with your lens, your bias, your story, your limiting beliefs, your abundant mindset, your scarcity mindset, and you hear what you want to hear. Some people apply right away; some people never apply. Some people want to watch 100 more videos that say the exact same thing before they take a step. It's not for me to judge or determine. I'm not your judge. You get to do whatever you want. It's your

life, and it's a short one, so why don't we try doing it around the things that we want? But I will tell you this: Apple’s like, "We're here for the crazy ones, the square pegs in the round holes, the misfits, the troublemakers." I'm just here for the action takers. I really am. Take this piece of information and go do something with it to better your life, better your relationships, to be a better parent or spouse or teacher or guardian—whatever it is that you do. Use it! Use it for what gives you joy and purpose. The

rest of that, I don't know what to do with, okay? And so, before we go into our walk, I just want to share a little debate I had with Mo, and it just reminded me of something. We're always having debates, you know? So it began with Drigo actually sitting there, stuffing his face with burritos or whatever we were doing. Drigo giggled, and Mo's like, "You should be doing this with your life." It's easy to dispense advice, but why you should be doing this with your life? So D-Lee is like, "You know Chris said yesterday, 'Do

you want to be popular, or do you want to get the job done?'" If I want to get the job done, I would just be a real estate agent. I turned to him and said, "You're confusing the concept, and you're just merging two things that actually don't belong together," which a lot of people do. This is why I'm like—I didn't tell you that. Those are the words I said, but then you put it together and made some kind of weird mashup remix album of what I just told you. That's what I told you: pursuing something

to make money while killing your soul is not getting the job done. It never has been. Getting the job done is being in alignment with who you're supposed to be in this world and saying, "Screw the consequences. I'm going to go for it." That is getting the job done. So where we confuse this is Drigo says, "I hate real estate," let's just say. And Chris says, "If you want what you want in your life, you have to do the things that you hate." It's true, except for when you try to achieve that thing—the thing that

is the barrier to the thing that you want. You have to want that thing. So if you wanted to be a real estate broker, and like going to get his license is a horrible thing; he doesn't like to study, then that's what you're supposed to do. That's called getting the job done. That's not in his cards, and he's going to get slaughtered. This is where Mo comes in. He's like, "Yeah, when—let’s go ahead and say your money bit, do it! I'm going to kill you right now." I said, "Yes, but when money is involved, people

get jaded." Yeah, that's why they throw away what they really want to be aligned with. Then you said, "So he's talking about money now, right?" 'Cause he's like, he literally said money makes you jaded. I said, "No, it doesn't. Money is neutral. It has nothing to do with this. Money does not make you jaded. Not being in alignment with who you're supposed to be in this world—that's the thing that makes you jaded." And we start arguing about this. Like, "No, Chris, he's trying to prove it to me." I said, "Okay, if money makes you jaded,

aren't people who have no money super happy?" He goes, "Yeah, but..." "Aren't super rich people not happy?" "Yeah, but..." And you just keep going over and over again, right? And so it reminded me of something that Jesse Itzler, the billionaire guy, said at a conference. He goes, "I was raised by a working-class father who worked in a hardware shop or owned a little mom-and-pop hardware store, but he died a billionaire." I'm like, "What a story that was." He goes, "Financially, he's middle class; in his heart, he was a billionaire," and he's looking at a room

full of, I think, relatively soulless people who just wanted to make more money. He says, "Let me ask you this question: Can you be a billionaire in the bank and be broke in your heart?" "Can you be a billionaire?" Of course, they're like, "No." 'Cause he's... Like a billion times, "Z" is what zero, right? And he says, "If you can be a billionaire in your heart but have no money, are you broke?" There, of course not! You're fulfilled. So all of this is just to say the pursuit of money and everything that you think around

money is really not the pursuit. The pursuit is to find who you're supposed to be in this world, to figure out your gift, and to share it with as many people as possible. And when you do that, I can only guarantee one part of the equation: you'll be happy, and you'll die a happy person. You might be broke financially, but you won't be broke spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, in your heart. And maybe at the end of the day, when you realize how short our life is, that won't matter. But I also, as a capitalist, think the

more aligned you are in your life, the richer you'll be financially in the bank account. The problem is, in Drigo's observation, he's like, "Well, I should be a realtor." Then I'm like, "No, you won't! That is the wrong path. That is the path of just pursuing money for money's sake," and you think that's what will make you money, and it turns out it won't. Because there are people, men and women, who live, breathe, and eat real estate. They've been dreaming about this all of their lives, and they will eat your lunch every day of the

week. Right? There are people who like magic, and there are people who are in love with magic. And the people who are in love with it, versus those who just like it, will destroy, because you know why? It takes an incredible amount of fortitude, courage, and conviction to get past all the "no's" and the rejections, the late nights and the strained relationships. That's what's going to get you there, and you're going to need that passion in the gas tank to get across that finish line. And everyone who doesn't won't. That's it. So you hear the

story, and it's told over and over again how someone struggled for 15, 18, 27 years, who woke up every morning on a Tuesday and a Thursday and put those signs up like "Open House" until they got that first big break. And then they turned that into something. It happens over and over again, and we see them in popular culture, in media, and in stories that we read and the people that we talk to. It's almost always the same exact blueprint. And yet we deceive ourselves, and we think, "Oh my gosh, it's a two-year endeavor. I

like this, so I'm going to achieve that," and then they don't. And you know what they do? They pick another thing, and they do that, and that doesn't work. Two years later, they try this thing, and then just keep trying and trying and restarting. It never goes anywhere. You know this. So money doesn't make you. You, Jed, there are rich people that are unhappy and poor people that are really, really happy. That's not it at all. But I do seem to feel like—though I need evidence, and you can just prove me—that the people who seem

to be super aligned with what it is that they're supposed to be doing seem not only happy, but quite a few of them are really wealthy. Wealthy in different dimensions, though. Like the Dalai Lama is probably not wealthy, but he's wealthy in the spiritual dimension. Maybe a billionaire in that space, right? Like Mother Teresa, in robes and poor, and she was rich in a different dimension. Like if you're the world's best tennis player, I think that's Roger Federer, right? You're celebrated because that's what he loves. If you're Michael Phelps, you just love the pool, and

you're the most decorated athlete. That's it. You guys just have to find that thing. The problem, why it's so difficult for many people, is we have folks telling us, "This is what you're supposed to be doing." That could be your parents, and it's society, and it's your culture, and it's your religion—it's all these things. And so, like I said, when you pretend to be somebody for long enough, you forget who you are, you forget what you want, you forget what makes you happy, and sometimes it takes a fishing trip or a 10-day immersion retreat to

go and recalibrate. It's like, "Who the heck am I supposed to be?" It turns out it's actually quite difficult to be happy, and it takes work. It shouldn't, because it's like the most natural thing, but I think it's because of the way our society and culture have evolved that it's now become really hard. It's hard to know who you are; it's hard to pursue what makes you happy; it's hard to give yourself permission to like that pursuit. And that's a struggle.