Jack Ma: I've Had Lots Of Failures And Rejections | Davos 2015

welcome Jack ma thank you thank you thank you we we um we've all become very cognizant of Jack and his story and when Alibaba went public with the largest IPO in history uh we knew a lot more about him so I want to talk about his personal story I want to talk about how many times he tried and failed and what kept Him going I want to talk about where he is today and he got here and where he is going and how he expects to get there and if he gets there what will it

all mean for him and for the people uh that he wants to inspire so I begin with this question though Jack why are you back at daos it's a it's a long break for seven years I think uh my last time trip here was year 2008 but um I was coming for year 2001 for young Global leader for tomorrow and I think remember I never heard about the devs when I came but when I came I in the Switzerland so many young people demonstrate was such a horrible scene that I was and and I ask

them why did they do it they say anti- globalization and I say why globalization is a great thing why people you know don't like it and then we come all the way for two hours here there's a machine gun there's a people checking I say oh God is that is that a f or is that pron we're going to go inside but when I joined the Forum uh at the Young Global leader I was thrilled by uh so many ideas and for the first three four years I learned what what does what does the globalization

mean what is the corpor citizenship mean what about social responsibility mean and all these new ideas and I see so many great leaders talking about leadership and that benefit a lot and the year 2008 and N when the financial crisis came I think it's better go back to work because we can never win The World by talking so go back spend seven years now I come back I think it's time to do something return CU I learned so much let's talk 12 years ago so why I should not talking to the young Global leader of

today sharing with them how we gone through so that was the thing let's start with where you are today just how big is Alibaba how many people come every day how many people come in a week how fast is it growing yeah we have over a 100 million buyers visiting our site shopping our site site um every day and we created 100 million every day we created um uh 14 million jobs for China directly and indirectly and um we grow from 18 people to 30,000 people 18 people in my apartment to now we have four

big campers compared to 15 years ago we were big but compared to 15 years a later with still a baby how big will you be 15 years from now I think 15 years ago I told my team that um 15 years in the past 15 years we grow from nothing to this size and 15 years later I wanted people see no about alib babba no T about because it's already everywhere I want 15 years ago when we talked talk about what is e-commerce why small business can using this e-commerce those internet can do business Across

the Nation and I hope 15 years later people forget about e-commerce because they think it's like electricity nobody think it's a Hightech today now this is something that I don't want 15 years later we still walk on the street talking about why and how e-commerce can help people talk about the IPO you did it ex ceed your expectations well it's a pretty small IPO 250 yes the largest IPO in the history of Wall Street ra we we raised and number two was a Chinese Bank thank you I I uh I remember year 2001 we went

to uh raise some five million three million venture capitalist dollars in the USA and got rejected and I say we come back raising some a little bit more but I uh I think it you know what we think more about is for two $25 billion how we can spend the money efficiently because this is not the money this is the trust from the world the trust from those people they want to do better jobs to help more people they want to have a good return so I think um giving me more pressures because um when

our our market cap is bigger than IBM for certain day we're bigger than warmart we're one of the top 10 15 largest market cap company in the world I told my team and myself is that true we're not that good because years ago people say h Alibaba model is terrible does not make money have this and that all the big bad things because Amazon is better eBay is better Google is better and there's no such model like alib Baba in the USA so I told myself and people we were better than people thought but today

when we are that big size I said no we are not that good as people thought we are just a company 15 years old average age is 27 28 years old young people we're doing something that human being have never tried so I want I want to talk about the future let me take you back uh to when you were born in hangzo uh where the headquarters still are Y and your campus is there you don't have a loot don't don't move your loot your headquarters there yeah you founded there loot there you grew up

in the 60s 64 that born in' 64 that was the time of the cultural revolution yeah it was the end of the cultural revolution it was uh well my grandfather was a tiny landlord was considered after Liberation was considered to be a bad guy so um I was um I I I I I know how tough it was when I was kid you tried to get into three colleges MH each time they rejected you no I I try there is a examination that young people if you want to go University you have the taste take

the examinations so I failed three times but a lot of fail I failed for funny things that I failed the key Primary School test for two times and I failed uh um like a two three times for the middle school middle schools and uh you you would never believe in in Hanzo my city there's only one Middle School that last only one year it was changed from primary schol middle school because our graduates of our our our school no univer you no Middle School accept us because we're too bad they would become a middle school

what effect did it have though uh being rejected well I think we have to get used to it we're not that good even today we still have a lot of people reject us I think um when I uh in the be graduate from universities and before I you know for three years I tried to fail in the universities so I appli jobs for 30 times got rejected I went for a police they said no you're not good I went even the uh KFC when KFC came to China come to my city 20 24 people went

for the job 23 people accepted I was the only one guy and we went for Polie five people four of them accepted I was the only guy that I rece receive it so to me being turned down rejected oh by the way I told you that I would I apply for Harvard for 10 times rejected I know be rejected sorry now 10 times you wrote them and said I'd like to come to Harvard yeah and then I told myself somebody I should go teach there baby I I think that can be arranged um Richard Nixon

came to hzu yeah and after that tourist flooded the place yeah and that's how you learned English yeah I really like the I don't know why at 12 13 years so that time I suddenly fell love into the language the English and there's no place you can you can learn English at that time there's no books English books so I went to the Hanzo hotel now called Hanzo shanga Hotel because that was the Hotel uh can receive the foreign visitors so every morning for nine years I show them around as a free guide and they

taught me English and I think that changed to me today I'm a 100% ma in China I've never got a one day train outside China yeah and uh people when people talk to me say Jack how can you speak English like that why sometimes you you talk like an Western guys I think that was the nine years these Western for tourist opened my mind because everything they told me are so different from the things I learned from the schools and from my parents so now I have a habit whatever I see whatever I read I

use my mind think about for two minutes is that how maun became Jack ma actually Jack the name was given by u a lady in tennis she's a tourist that she came here and and she said Kim to Hanzo we had a we become a pan friends Maring is so difficult to pronounce so she said do you you have an English name I said don't so can you give me an English name she said uh okay she said my father called a jack my husband called Jack what do you think about Jack I said good

so I've been using that for that many years uh first visit to America 1995 1995 yeah I uh I come here for a project helping the local government to building up a Highway uh and you tried the internet I tried the internet in Seattle and um in a building called the USA bank I don't know whether the US Bank is still there or not but it's a building and um my friend open a small office which is like only 10% bigger than this room and there lot of much computers in there and he said Jack

you this is internet was I asked what is internet he said you know search whatever you want at that time they use Mosaic very slow right and I said I don't use it I don't want to type because Inter computer is so expensive in China if I destroy it I cannot pay you said just to search it so I searched the first word beer I don't know why because easy to spell a baby and I see beers from Germany beers from USA beers from Japan but there's no beer from China and I say okay type

the second worst China no data nothing nothing and I said 1995 1995 no data about China so I talked to my friend why not I make some something about China so we made uh a small very ugly looking page called China it's it's about it's something like I did a translation agency we listed on there it was so shocking we launched at 940 in the morning 12:30 I got a phone call from my friend he said Jack you know you got five emails I said what is email and they said these are the things say

people so excited where are you this is the first time I see a Chinese website on that how can we kind of when can we do something together so I think this is something interesting so we should do it why did you call it Alibaba Alibaba well when I started I think internet is global we should have a global name and a name that um interesting like at that time the B name is Yahoo right I think I can so I've been thinking for many days suddenly think Alibaba is a good name so I I

was happened to be in San San Francisco that day I have a launch and the wa just come I asked her do you know about Alibaba she said yes I said what is Alibaba she said open sesame good so I went on the street ask about 10 20 people they all know about Alibaba 40 thieves and open sesame and I think this is a good name and start with a whatever you talk about Alibaba is always top you have said before that in creating Alibaba you had to create Trust yeah uh because people in China

were used to face to face yeah how did you create trust I think um because we started about the doing business internet I don't know you you don't know me so how can you do things online unless you have trust so for e-commerce the most important thing was trust I think when I first went to USA for raising money money talking to the venture capitalist a lot of people say oh Jack no no no no no no no China doing business about GUI how can you do business on internet and I know that without the

trust system the credit system it's impossible to do business so we we every in the past four 14 years everything we do is trying to build up the trust system the record system well char you know I I'm I'm so proud today when I I talk to the young today in China and in the world people don't trust each other the government and people and and media and everybody ah this guy is cheating but because of e-commerce we finish 60 million transactions every day people don't know each other I don't know you I send products

to you you don't know me you w the money to me and I don't know you I give a p person a package I don't know him he took something to sew cross the ocean cross river and understand this is the trust we have six at at least 60 million trust happening every day but you created by creating an escro account in the beginning y you know and so you keep the money until they got the product yeah and then you release the money that's true I mean the escro services about ali pay when I

when I when I you know this idea I would love Davos because it was a big decision because for first three years Alibaba is just like e Market places for for information what you have what I have we talk a lot time but don't do any business because there is no payment I talk to the banks no banks want to do it Banks say ah no this thing never work so I don't know what to do because if I start to launch a payment system it's against the financial legal laws because you have to have

a license but if I don't do it e-commerce will go nowhere so then I went to Davos I listened to a leadership discussion leadership is about responsibility and after I listen to that panel I give a call to my friends my colleagues in the my apartment say do it now immediately if something wrong the governor happy about that if onebody has to go to the prison Jack might go to the prison because it is so so important for China for the world to build of the trust system and if you did not do it I

sent and do not do it properly stealing money money wash no trust record I send you to the prison so that was the thing and people people don't like it so many people I talked to at that time for Al pay they say this is the stupidest idea you have ever got but I say I don't have the stupid clever as long as people use it now we have 800 million people using this Ali pay stupidest things you do is better alipay is a privately helding it's not part of Alibaba talk about money for a

second uh you have never got money from the Chinese government no none none I I I I um I want at the beginning at late I don't want it because I think if the company always think about a picking money from out of the government off pockets that company's is rubbish think about how can you make money from the customers and market and then help customers suceed that's our philosophy no money from Chinese banks no no I I at that time I want and now they going to give me I don't want it yeah all

right um your relationship with the government M yeah what's your relationship I mean if they didn't want here's what some say uh that you have existed in an environment that's not they have restricted competition for you and that's a pretty good thing to do for a private company yeah I think the relationship with the government for us is very interesting for the first five years because I've been working as a part-time jobber for a government organization called Ministry of Foreign trade 1997 for 14 months and I learned that you you should never rely government organization

to do e-commerce and I um started a business I told my people and team in love with the government don't marry them respect them and a lot of people say well you know government officers talking to about internet the censorship and this that and they worry about I think it's the opportunity it's a responsibility talking to them tell them how internet can help so you tell them we create jobs oh yeah I been I think um a lot of people debate and fight against them and in the first 12 years anybody come to my office

I sit down talking to them how we can help economy how we can create jobs why China will improve by the internet I think um because internet that time is new to any government and if you convince somebody and you have the chance so so today I'm very talkative that probably this is why I talk to so many people so I mean if the government comes to you and ask you to do something for them MH normally when government comes say Jack can you do this project I say no I can I say no can

I can introduce some friends who are interested in doing that for you but if you if they continue to want me to do it I say okay I do it but I don't want I don't charge I hope next time don't come to me again but recently we helped some government organization do for example the the the Every Spring Festival the train station the train ticket is so difficult hundreds and thousands of farmers in work in the cities in the Spring Festival they go to the hometown but when they order tickets on the on the

uh the the the the other way the whole system crashed for 5 years so I told my young people go support them don't charge anything because I don't want to see millions of farmers go back to city and they cannot buy the tickets so it's it's something that it's not for money it's something I it's not for the government it's for the millions of millions of people they can buy tickets in the snowy night and they don't have the wait they just to buy use a mobile phone online they got ticket uh one way stop

along the route to where you are in that big IPO was Yahoo Jerry Yang gave you a invested yeah a billion dollars yeah a billion dollars it turned out to be a pretty good investment for Yahoo yeah but one time after another you rais this money on your own outside of China with investors yeah I'm very thankful for all the investors because um 1999 year 2000 and even at the Y time a lot of people say this Jack is crazy he's he's doing something that we don't understand a lot of venture capitals give you money

because there is such a American model already there but they say Alibaba we don't see this kind of model right they say Jack's crazy yeah this is crazy guy I mean I remember my first time in Time Magazine they call me crazy Jack and I I think crazy is good we are crazy but we're not stupid we know what we are doing but if everybody agree with me if everybody believe my our idea is good we have no chance so that's the money we raised we're very thankful so when the our investors makes a lot

of money I feel proud and honored as you know in the United States issues have risen about privacy yeah uh Google and apple and questions of of whether the government should have access to files how do you handle that if the Chinese government says you know a lot about people M you have transactional relationships with lots of people M and they say we want to see your files well so far I don't have this kind of problems of from Chinese government and I told them any government if you come here for the National Security anti-terrorist

well anywhere anti-terrorist we work together is a criminal we work but rest of that no I said we are business the data is so precious because we don't know how because if we give to anybody it's going to be disaster and also about privacy issues I think just like uh hundreds of years ago people say I would have rather put money under my pillow rather than putting the banks but today Banks they're special they know how to protect money much better than you do privacy issues all these kind of Securities today we may not have

the solutions we don't have the answer but I believe our young people have the Solutions in next 10 20 years there will be break through on that and I I'm fully confidence on that your life is a testament to the idea that nothing is impossible that if somebody says no you say it's just the beginning where does that come from well I uh at the beginning I never thought um I I thought when I was young I said everything's possible now I know not everything is possible when you have something you have to think about

you have to consider about the others you have to consider about the customer Society your employees your shareholders so soet there are so many things that I think if you continue to work hard there's there's possibility and um I just feel that I'm enthusiastic about what we are doing at the beginning for the first of five years I just want to survive and five years later I think that's 2000 from 9 yeah but later I think wow so many people's life changed I was so excited you know for the first three years we made zero

Revenue zero Revenue but we we are so excited to continue to work you know what happened I remember many times when I go to restaurant have dinner somebody came when I was trying to pay the bill the owner of the restaurant came to say sir your bill is paid by someone and the small note say hey Mr marah I'm your customer Ali Baba group Ali Baba platform I made a lot of money and I know you don't make any money I pay the bill for you yeah and I remember one thing one day that I

was uh sitting somewhere in the coffee somebody sending me a cigar I don't smoke cigar but there's a note thank you very much I'm your customer and I remember in the top of days I with the shanga hotel in Beijing when I got on the taxi the man who opened the door for me the boy at the gate he said Jack thank you very much I'm I'm s here my girlfriend makes more money than I do on your site and this is something that you know that it's not aming if you don't do it nothing's

possible if you try to do it at least you have the hope the revenue comes from advertising in a smaller amount from transactional fees most of it from advertising tiny tiny from advertising Tiny from advertising Tiny from transactions because we need big Mass when we now we have more than 10 million small business power sellers selling our site to everywhere so the big trans the transactions we have is second after Walmart so tiny second after Walmart yeah tiny of the transact of of the money already B us make us big so you know we second

after walart I remember one of the Senior Management of warart guys came to hangzo five years ago he said Jack you know you're a great job and bl blah so we I said maybe in 10 years we'll be bigger than Walmart he said young man you have a good hope so we have make a m bat I think in 10 years will'll be Bigg than Walmart on the sales because if you want have 10,000 new customers you have to build a new warehouse and this that for me two servers what's your market cap versus W

Walmart today I I don't know but maybe yeah some it's close I think so maybe we should check later all right um so where are you going what does Jack want I think because the name for Alibaba we are internet company happen to be in China we have the same sprit and an entrepreneur sprit like every great entrepreneur R preneurs in the world and I remember the day when I started Alibaba we want to have a mission helping small business doing easier so next step is today so many millions of small business using our platform

to sell things and over 300 million consumers buy things from our site cheapest efficient so what I'm thinking about how we can make Ali Babba platform for Global small business my vision is that how if we can help Norway small business can sell things to Argentina and Argentina consumers can buy things online from uh from Switzerland and we can build up a which I called the I don't know maybe the right not right word called ewto the WTO is great past the entury but W2 have so many big companies to sell things Across the Nation

today internet can help small business sell things across the oceans across the Nations and I hope that um we can serve two billion consumers two billion consumer two billion consumers we can help 10 million small business outside China help them outside China outside China because I'm so because we we helped the American farmers in Washington state almost 300 tons of cherries to China last year cherries when they when we before we s the ambassador of USA came to me can you help us selling cherries what cherries the fluts he said why not I said why

not let's try so that when we order when we start to sell cherries the cherries still on the trees so we started pre-order 80,000 families order charries online so we we pick up the cherries and SHP into China within 48 hours we sell the cherries the consumers so happy and but we got a lot of letters complain after three days they say why only 100 tons why we should not get more so we sell you know last last two months ago we helped the Costco we sell 300 tons of nuts to China so I'm thinking

about if we can sell oh no we also selling Alaska Seafood to China so if we can sell seafood we if we can sell the cherries why we cannot help American and European small business selling things to China consumers China needs that so this is what I want to do is that 10 two billion consumers China Asia developing nations how we can let them buy things globally Alibaba rode with the millions of people people that went from poverty to the middle class in China I mean you were right there growing as they grew and increased

when you look at the international markets you're doing well in Russia yeah how well we do pretty good on Russia and we to do also pretty good braz Brazil Russia I think now uh we I don't know we are the if not the number one we the number two or number three largest e-commerce e-commerce I remember last year we had a campaign the campaign is that a lot of Russian girls and boys want to buy things from China you know how many days a Russian girl put place in order and received the products from China

two years ago four mils even that people are so happy about all thing and last of the campaign within one week we crashed the whole logis system of Russia all right you were also seen in Hollywood yeah what are you doing in Hollywood well I like the uh the Hollywood um Innovation and the digital I learned so much about the Hollywood movies especially the forest gum you love Forest gum I love Forest gum why do you like him simple never give up people people thinking he's done but he knows what he's doing and I was

very depressed the day a year 2002 or three in the states when I no no no no but earlier than that I was very depressed when I I could not find out a way for the internet and I watched the movie in my friends home Forest G when I see him I think this is the guy we should learn from believe what you're doing love it whether people like it don't like it be simple and like the word life is like a box of chocolate you never know what you can get right I never know

I would be here talking to you and talking to Charlie Rose I never know but today I made it I told my people in my apartment 18 15 years ago guys we have to work hard not for ourself if we can be successful 80% % of the young people in China can be successful we don't have a rich father powerful Uncle we don't have a$1 from Bank when s from government just work as a team so what do you worry about I worry about it today young people a lot of young people lose hope lose

vision and start to complain because I we also have the same per because when I got it's not a good feeling being rejected by so many people we also depressed but at least later we find that the world has a lot of opportunity how you see the world how you catch the opportunity so and the Hollywood gives me a lot of uh inspiration you know but but you out there for business you out there because you want to make movies and sell them I want to make the movie for business wise we are e-commerce company

we we have a lot of uh products that need logistic but movie TV these are things you don't need logistic system and movie probably is the best product that can help Chinese young people to understand because one thing I told the Chinese people my my friends in American movie all the heroes at the beginning they look like a bad guy but terrible things coming they become hero and finally they all survived China if you better move hero all the hero died so because only that people become the hero so nobody want to be the hero

so you want to change the Chinese definition of hero yeah I want to say hero today we have so many Heroes live in this world are you still writing these Kung Fu novels or you just reading them I uh read them and I start to write something I think it's a fine the Kung Fu it's something you you start to think about something that you cannot do but if you have some luck if you continue to practice if you got a good Master if a good team you're expert so at least it make me when

I'm busy when I'm tired and frustrated I read a comfor books and you also travel with a Tai chai am I saying that right a trainer trainer taii taii taii taii yeah what does that do for you other than keep you in good Tai taii is a philosophy about in and young yeah taii is about how you balance how you work like a competition people say when I compete with eBay say you hate eBay no no no I don't ha eBay it's a great company you know they come I go you know taii is like

you fight here I go over there you put on the top I go to down right so it's a balance right you are heavy I'm a small you know when I'm small I can jump you're heavy cannot jump so the t is better philosophy I use in your philosophy in the in the business calm down there's always way out and keep yourself balanced and meanwhile don't try to keep because business is is a compet competition is a fun business is not a battlefield you you die or I win business even if you die I not

win right so it's about it's better fun so taii give me a lot of Inspirations you but you want your life and you want this company Alibaba to change the world and you are changing the world if in fact you provide a forum for buying and you enable people to earn a living um but also you believe that Alibaba ought to change the lives of women so what are you doing at first I think uh many years ago I want to change the world now I think if you want to change the world we change

ourself change ourself is more important and easier then change the world and second is that I want to improve the world because it changed the world maybe Obama's job because my job is to making sure that my team are happy because my team are happy they can make my customer happy if my customer they are all small business when they're happy we are happy about women one of the secret source for Alibaba success is that we have a lot of women what percentage of women one day before I think two months before two or three

months before we IP there's America there's American journalist come to our company she asked me a question check I've SE so many women your company I say what's wrong we have a later we find that you know we we have 30 or we have 47% of the employees of our company are women how many 40 47% of our company of women and we actually had a 51 because we acquire some company these days they have more men so balance that but these are women in top level positions 33% of the senior of the management are

women and 24% of the seni man very top level uh women we have a women CEO CFO CPO Chief people officer and we have everywhere and I think so comfortable to working with them because women in this world if you want to win in 21st century you have to making sure that making other people powerful Empower others making sure the other people better than you are then you will be successful so I find the women they think about the others more than they think about themselves women think about the kids husband parents much more than

the man and they use a friendliness a couple of things I want to talk about before we go because we have less than a couple minutes uh China today are you worried the economy slowed down oh I don't worry about I think China is doing it's slowing down is much better than keep on 9% China today is the second largest economy in the world it's impossible to keep 9% of the growth if China still keeps the 9% of the growth of the economy there must be something wrong you will never see the blue sky and

you will never never see the quality China should pay attention to the quality of the economy China should not so if we have a lot of influence you know like a Hol movies things and we have a good sports and these things in the in the the GDP will be much better so I think just like a human growth you can never this body can never grow grow grow grow certain time the slow of growth of your body was slow but you should grow your mind grow your culture grow your value grow your wisdom I

think China is moving to that direction and you saw Modi in India pardon did you see Modi in India not yet I'm looking forward to that you go to India finally there's this um you're one of the world's richest people um your company is one of the world's richest companies what do you want beyond Alibaba well by riches to people I was uh I told I was really not happy in the past three months when people say jackma is the richest people of China Global celebrity they said no I'm not I'm not when I start

a business are you are I never thought cuz how many yeah maybe I am I not but I think what I 15 years ago in my apartment my my wife was at that time one of the 18 Founders I asked her do you want your husband to be a rich person I never said rich person in China rich person in hzo or oh you want to be your husband to be respected person she said of course respected because she never believe and I don't believe we be rich people we just don't want to survive but

I believe when you have $1 million that's your money we you have $20 million you still have problem you worry about inflation where which is stock to buy and this that had to come when you have1 billion dollar that's not your money that's the trust Society give on you they believe you can manage the money use the money better than the government the others so I think today I have the resources do more things with the money we have with the influence we have we should spend more time on the young people and I would

say someday I'll go back to teach go back to school spend time with the young people and telling sharing with them what I am so the money is not mine I just happily and um having this resources then I want to do better job just tell them your story yeah tell them the story and tell them that if I I don't think in this world there a lot of people be rejected more than 30 times if we you know the only thing we never give up the only thing like we like a forest the gum

we keep on fight we keep on change ourself we don't complain whether you were successful or not successful I find that one per people when they finish the job if they make the mistake if they fail if they always complain the others this guy will never come back if the guy only check himself yeah something wrong with me here something wrong me there this guy has the Hope Jack on behalf of everybody in this audience uh and a television audience around the world thank you for taking your time to be with us thank you than

thank you thank you so much