Unknown

>> Everyone. Good morning. Good morning. Um. Austin. South by southwest. Warm weather tacos. I grew up around here. Um, I was born and raised in San Antonio. And yesterday, as I landed at the airport and took a cab through the city, I was going through memory lane, including a soccer field where I was called a racial slur for the first time. It was, um, I was in middle school, and it was this moment where I had stolen the ball from, from another player had passed it off to a teammate, and when no one was looking,

the other player came and tackled me and stood over me and said, Sandy. And then the n word. And I sand n word. And I didn't know what that meant. I'd never heard it, but I knew what this person meant by it, especially by the way he was standing over me. And as I got up to defend myself, my friend Levi, my teammate, came over and put his arm to the side and said, I got this. And Levi got in a fight with this guy. And Levi got kicked out of the game. He got a

red card. And and I was struck thinking once things settled down, what was the difference between these two people? Why was it that somebody was willing to hate me? And also, there was somebody who was willing to fight for me. What was the difference between their two paths? And the best answer that I could come up with was that Levi knew me. We had a relationship. And to this other person, I was the other. And growing up in Texas, a lot of my time, a lot of my thinking was spent around what would our lives

look like if I wasn't the other. My brothers and I would talk about, how do we change our experience in this country so that people don't see us as so foreign all the time? And I thought a lot about media and how it shapes our perceptions. And I remember going to my librarian once and asking her, do you know, do you know of any books, Any books that depict characters that look like the people in my family. Do you have any examples? I'd love to see them. I'd love to show them to my friends. And

maybe we could be seen as normal. And the librarians response was, I'm sorry, I don't know of any. I just don't think it's relatable enough. And I was young. I had a good relationship with our librarian. It wasn't. I didn't think she was being malicious. Right. She didn't mean to be hurtful, but what she said really stung, because what I took from what she was saying was, people don't care about you. And I also knew that she was wrong because I knew I had friends like Levi and so many other friends like that who did

care about me when they had the chance to know me. And so I made a promise to myself, thinking about what this opportunity could look like for giving, letting people know who I am. I made a promise to myself that when I grew up, if these books didn't exist, still, that I would write them. Now, fast forward a few years from there, because there's another moment in which I had a big realization around storytelling. It was my senior year of high school. Senior year is supposed to be the best year, right? I got a car.

Senioritis. I wasn't supposed to go to class. Or at least I wasn't planning to go to class. It was going to be the best year. And then as the semester started, one of those first weeks, we heard about a terrorist attack in New York City. And that day, for many of us, including for me, life changed Dramatically. And one of the changes that I experienced looking the way that I do. Is that overnight and actually within that same day, I had gone from being seen as foreign, as different as other, into being seen as the

enemy. Literally, people saw me as the spitting image of their enemy. Turban. Beard. Brown skin. And I'll tell you, it was intense, right? The death threat started that day. People we knew were being attacked and killed. I could tell you all kinds of stories about this, but where I want to focus is a couple of observations that I had in the aftermath that showed me about challenges that we have in this culture around storytelling. The first has to do with power. And it's a question that I think many of you have thought about in different

ways. And I was experiencing this live in this moment. Why was it that people didn't know what was happening to us? Right. There were hate crimes around the country against anyone who looked like the enemy. We didn't have the power to be able to tell that story, and so it didn't get told. People didn't know what was happening to folks on the margins. And so having the proximity to power, having access to power, letting your stories be heard was a big question for me in this moment. And I think it's one that we've talked about

a lot culturally, especially in the last few years, especially in our conversations around representation. And there was another observation that I had that felt deeper and that was. Let me say it this way. In today's conversations around representation, We often talk about the benefits, which I think is really important, right? If we're talking about children's publishing, often we talk about windows and mirrors and sliding doors, right? An opportunity to see inside someone else's experience, an opportunity to see yourself reflected, and an opportunity to even step into someone else's world, to build empathy. Beautiful. I love

that. I think it's all true. But in this moment, after nine over 11, I was thinking about the question in almost an inverse kind of way. The question for me is what are the consequences of being rendered invisible? What are the stakes? And what I was realizing in this moment was for folks on the margins, the difference is life and death not being known in this society, being erased, being left as other makes you so vulnerable that death is always knocking on your door. Those are the stakes, and I had never thought about it that

way. And what I decided in that moment was, I need to figure out a way how to deal with this. Education had always been my theory of change. But what was the vehicle? Storytelling. Because we know that we don't lecture our way into dignity. Information doesn't change people's minds or hearts. It's stories. It's stories that build the empathy, the connection, the care. And so I decided to embark on that journey, and I thought maybe the way I could begin was through the form of storytelling that I had studied in college history that would give me

credibility, that would give me legitimacy as a storyteller. And so I go on this path to become a storyteller. Several years past. Grad school always takes forever, am I right? So grad school is forever. And in 2016, another big moment comes in my life. And that's the birth of my first daughter. And as we're preparing for her to enter into our world, we're getting our little New York City apartment ready, write, crib and bed and all these kinds of things that we're trying to figure out. And part of that equation was picture books. I hadn't

thought about picture books in years. And I go back to the shelves at the bookstores back when they existed in 2016. And I look at the picture books on the shelves and I say, you know, it looks like some things have changed, but some things haven't. I still don't see anything that represents my family, my experience, my community. And I remembered that promise that I'd made to myself as a child. And I thought about my daughter coming into this world and what I would want for her. And I decided it was time. But here's the

challenge. With writing a story, you have to have an actual story to tell. And I didn't know what I wanted to tell. And about six weeks after my daughter was born, one of my biggest heroes comes to New York City. He's. His name is Fauja Singh. He's the world's oldest marathoner. He ran a marathon at the age of 100. And and I. And I loved him. I started running marathons when I first heard of him. And. And so he was coming to New York as a celebrity guest at a big race. I took my six

week old at the time to go meet him. And we sat in a living room in Queens, and we got two hours together, and he sat there on the couch with my daughter, my six week old. He was 105 years old at the time. So the what? The deltas. I'm 104 years and 11 months or something, right? So he's sitting there with her and I'm realizing as I'm talking to him, yes, this man has accomplished something incredible, which is what inspired me. But his life story is also incredible. And I'm starting to to think about

I want to tell this, this man's story. But here's, here's the challenge that I felt in this conversation. I was actually really uncomfortable with the idea of telling his story, because what he represented to me was actually a tension that I was fighting internally. I had seen this person as my hero for years, years. But as I understood who he actually was, he didn't fit into my assumptions of what a hero could be. I learned as I was talking to him that he never went to school. He wasn't literate. He couldn't read or write any

language. And I was socialized in this society to believe that people who are illiterate don't deserve our respect. I learned that when he was a child, he had a disability. I had learned in this country that those people are second class citizens. Ableism. Ageism. Xenophobia. Immigration status. Illiteracy. I mean, you go down the line. And this man. Yes, he belonged to my community and wore a turban like me. Yeah. He's excited to tell his story because he was also a sick. But he's also so different from me. And he challenged my assumptions of what a

hero could be. And as I was sitting there on the couch across from him struggling with this internally, I was realizing how good it was for me to get this medicine. And as he was holding my daughter, my six week old, in his hands, I remember thinking, I hope she can absorb this. I hope she can absorb everything that I'm I'm gaining from this conversation right now. And that's when I knew the story that I wanted to tell. So that was the first picture book Fauja Singh keeps going, and it's about a man who does

something almost unbelievable running a marathon at the age of 100. But it's not just about him achieving that goal. It's also about exploring some of the themes that lead us to dehumanize one another in this society. And my thesis became, if we can learn to see the humanity in the people who seem most different from us, then maybe we can see the humanity in everyone we meet. I had this experience just before the book came out. Just before the book came out, I was traveling with my family. My second daughter had been born at the

time. My older one was now old enough to to walk. And so we're going through airport security. TSA and I have my older one's hand as we're walking through, and my wife has the baby she's carrying. And as I walk through the the detector, the TSA agent says, can you step aside? And, you know, this is something I'm very used to. This is standard TSA policy, right? Racial profiling for anyone who wears a turban is standard. It's actually written into the rule. So I'm used to my second checks. I've kind of normalized it. It's okay.

I don't get upset. But this time, as I let go of my daughter's hand and told her to go with her mom, I got so mad. And I don't get that mad. I'm not that it's not in my personality or my disposition so much, but like I was on the flight, I wasn't able to do anything. I just sat there thinking through what just happened. And I couldn't sleep that night. And I want to tell you why. Because there's something humiliating about this experience, right? Racial profiling in general. And there's also the messages that are

sent to everyone around you. But here, for the first time, I was realizing the consequences for my daughter that my own government is telling my daughter to be ashamed of who she is and where she comes from, to be ashamed of her father. And I was realizing that these messages are going to damage our relationship, and there's nothing I can do to change that. I was so mad that this is what our society puts us in the position of. Over and over again. And what can we do? And then the book came out. I got

my copies early. I showed them to my daughter. The book's not about me, right? I'm not. I'm not a character in the book. But my girls get the book and they're looking at it and they're so excited. And I'm realizing, actually there is something we can do, and that's stepping in to the possibility of telling our stories, the positive stories, the humanizing stories, the ones that cut against all of the negative messaging that our kids are receiving constantly. What does it look like to see humanity in others? What does it look like to see humanity

in yourself, to claim that power? That's what picture book writing has done for me to help shape the imaginations of our children, including my own. There's one more book which, very excitingly, we're launching here at South by Southwest, which makes me feel way cooler than I actually am. So thank you. Thank you. South by Southwest for doing that. Um, and this book, similarly, it's it's about a cultural tradition and holiday that's very Punjabi and sick. The texture is very Punjabi and sick. And I wanted to share some of that culture with the world and also

with that particularity. The question for me is what's the actual story? What story do I want to tell? And as I looked at the dehumanizing discourse around migration and immigration and refugees. Being from Texas and seeing some of the videos. My parents immigrated here from Punjab and also realizing that actually movement is a universal story, that we all change communities, workplaces, schools. I mean, we're constantly moving into new communities. We all know how hard that is. We don't always appreciate that, and we don't know how to talk to you about it, to our kids, about

it. And so this picture book, yes, it's in many ways about our tradition of Vaisakhi that we celebrate every April. But it's also about finding home. It's about transformation. It's about finding comfort in places that aren't always designed for you. And so I'm really excited to bring in our creative art director, the senior art director for Kokila to be in conversation with her, because for me, so much of what I'm thinking about is how do we bring into visibility that which is rendered invisible. James Baldwin has this quote that has been at the core of

my teaching philosophy. He says, if I love you, I have to make you conscious of the things you don't see. And even within that statement, right. There's an ethos there. There's a value proposition there, but there's also a notion of visuality. Right. What does it mean to make something visible? And so Jasmine's work is incredible. She's worked on both of my books so far. And I'm going to invite her to the stage and we'll have a little conversation about what this work looks like. So, Jasmine, please come on up. >> Hey, Simran. Thanks for the

invite. Of course. Thank you so much for sharing your personal stories and like talking about what is important in, you know, eliminating some of the false imagery that we have and how that's impacted you personally and in your family, and how that led to your inspiration to be a children's book author. Um, since I am an art person, I'd like to talk about the visual representation of what drives your storytelling. Um, so I have some questions for you. Most of people don't think about picture books as a process where two storytellers are coming together to

tell a story. So what has it been like for you to work with two different artists on your books, and what has their creative input brought to the story, and did it align with your vision? Um, yeah. I'll say for for me, the I definitely have a bias as a scholar in particular, and somebody who works on texts like historic texts. I have a real bias towards the writing piece of and if you've seen any of my art ever, you would understand that. Like, I don't really have an appreciation for, for illustration. So, so, so

the writing is where my my heart is. And I'll tell you, I think I had this experience with the first book, and then I had it again when I, when I just got my copies of Vaisakhi. Um, I don't think the book ever felt real until I saw the illustrations. And that's sort of a weird thing to say as an author. But like, if you can imagine the process with me, it's very much like I'm I'm writing on a computer, so it's a word document. It doesn't look like a book, it doesn't feel like a

book. And even when you have the final text that you're sort of going back and forth with, on with your editor and agent and so on. Even that's like a Google doc maybe, right? Like so it doesn't feel so. All of that is to say, when the illustrations first started coming in, um, that is where the, the sort of my understanding of the two part storytelling really came to life for me. Um, the the experience has been incredible. You know, I, I worked a lot with Jasmine and her team to identify the artists, which not

all authors get to do. Not all authors get to be involved in that process. So I've been really grateful, and it was really important to me to bring in illustrators who would have an aesthetic understanding and ability for what the story was about, but then also, um, particular, um, insight into the different types of cultures that were being represented, right? Like both of these books, and the new one we're working on is like grappling with transnationalism and multiculturalism and so on immigration. And so for the book to have somebody who is deeply connected to Punjabi

culture and could represent the first half of the book, which really centers in South Asia, but also is living here in North America and can depict what an urban life looks like. Right. To sort of navigate that transition, that was really important to me. And the last one is, and maybe we can pull up a photo from from the book, um, the, um, uh baljinder. The illustrator for that one was a, um, somebody had been following on Instagram for a long time. She had a proclivity towards depicting elderly people. And so to have someone who

understood Punjabi culture and then also was in the UK where he's based, but then especially loved depicting and illustrating different aspects of elderly culture that she was witnessing that that was really powerful to me. Yeah, that really stood out when I saw her portfolio too. It's hard to like, find an artist that can really render the age range of like someone really an old, an elderly person and a young child and like what that does, how the body is. And I really loved how she captured the playfulness and their engagement in that in those series

of vignettes. So that definitely kind of like made us feel really excited to reach out for her collaboration on focusing. Were there any unexpected choices that Baljinder or Japanese made in the two picture books that you've worked on? Yeah, for sure. And, probably in part due to my own lack of imagination. Are we able to pull up some of the images? Is that possible? I think the next slide is Vaisakhi and there are two more slides after that. Yeah. Okay. So, so if you if you look at for instance. Yeah. Thank you. Um, in this

in this image here, I was really struck by so, so I love the vibrancy and the color of her, of her art that really captures what Vaisakhi celebrations look like. Um, I found myself surprised by some of the particularities of Punjabi culture that were even, um, that are that are typically not even known today among most urban Punjabis. And so some of the depictions of village life showing some of the showing in the middle. Here you have what a gurdwara a place of worship would look like in the center. And if we can move to

the next slide, I think I have here this. This was a really nice surprise for me. Um, she in her art, she wanted to depict the Sikh gurus, the founders, but she didn't feel comfortable showing their faces, which is is a common feeling among Sikhs in our tradition. Um, and she made some artistic choices on how to depict that. And I remember you all reaching out to me and saying, do you like this? Are you okay with it? And I was like, I love it. I love how she did it. You can see the one

on the horse. Um, he's his face is covered by a flower on his face. There's another one with an orange turban. Uh, in the center with it. Looks like a purplish robe. Um, and his back is to us. And I love these choices that she was making in terms of her own authentic experience, something that I was aware of. I would have been okay if she wanted to do something different, but I think sort of honoring the diversity within the tradition and seeing how she feels, what this is appropriate was a really nice touch for

me. Yeah, I think it was really valuable. Also, when we got on a call with Jenny and kind of talked through some of the things that she was kind of envisioning before she put pencil to paper. Mhm. Um, are there what what artistic choices do you think Jeff Mead or Baljinder have brought to the read experience? Once the book was like actually in your hands and you could experience those page turns? Yeah. There's so much, you know, if we can go back a couple of slides to the slide. Um, one more back. Thank you. Um,

I think for for me, part of Part of the authenticity that comes out of the story is derived from, again, this question that I was thinking about as a kid. Right. Who is the storyteller and are they talking about not to be overly nerdy? But Edward said and Orientalism talks a lot about representation in a way that I think goes deeper than what we talk about here. And, and essentially what he's getting at is when other people are constantly representing a story that is not their own. It's not actually truth. It's represents is what he

calls it, it's representation. You're just changing something and making it different from what it was that you think it is. And so for me, authenticity is the goal. Truth is the goal. And so to be able to to hand over a text to someone like Baljinder and say, like, what is your authentic, personal version of this story that depicts what Foggia's life might have been like 100 years ago. And so I was really taken by this image in the middle where his hair is being combed. Um, I didn't have any input on that, but that

is for anyone who grows up in a sick family. Um, that is exactly what the morning routine looks like. Like, that's what my mom did for me every morning when I was growing up. And actually this morning when my I stayed at my brother's house last night as they were getting their kids ready, that's what they were doing for their kids. Like, it's such a real depiction that to anybody who knows what this community is, will see that and say, I, I see it. It's very it's authentic, but it's also telling my story in a

way that I don't even know if I'd be able to tell it. It's really beautiful to like that. That Baljinder used that to show self-care and community care, and she just instinctively knew that through her lived experience that it would be an important visual piece in the picture book. Yeah. And it's interesting because again, the text doesn't even refer to this. So to think about from my perspective, I'm imagining a story about a character and what is, you know, I'm describing aspects of his childhood and sort of building up to this moment where he will

run a marathon, but it's sort of fair game in terms of how you want to tell that story. And I learned that through my own process, which is like the final version of the book looked very different from my early drafts, and they were all biographically accurate. But you can tell a story in so many different ways, and I think the same is true for art, right? Like, I could have never imagined that any of these images, I don't think any of these are actually reflecting specifically the, the text. And so these are all choices

that the artist made that brought to life her reading of the text and her reading of the story and how she wanted to tell. So that point you made earlier about the double collaboration is really true. That is what illustrators bring to picture books is sort of like their interpretation of the story, and what they think will resonate with readers and elevate what the words are saying. Were there any visuals that you felt were crucial to see that were like a directive or something you really wanted to see in the pages throughout the books? That's

a good question. I don't think so. I'm not a very directive person. My my kids might disagree, but like, generally I don't like to I don't like to tell people what to do. Even my students are like, do you have any guidelines for this paper we're supposed to write? And I'm like, no, just send me whatever. It's all good. So I'm not a very directive person, but I think what? What I was looking for. And maybe this is revealing. Something. It's not something I've really talked about before, but when you write a story, it's about

the story. But it's actually also about you. And so I wanted these what I'm bringing through the through the books to reflect me and my values and what I care about. But then the illustrations, which are not my own, I was hoping that they would be. And it really turned out that way. And so to have these images of like in this one, you see Foggia tying his turban. Right. Like to have something like that, that's like yeah, that's that's my life every day. Right. That's something I go through sitting at the table with these,

you know, the, the two, uh, art pieces in the back, one with his family and one a map of Punjab. Like that is very resonant for me. If we can go actually to the last, not the last, but a couple of slides down, there's one more that I loved. I think one more from here on the on the right here. Um, it's a it's an image of a Sikh place of worship. And so this is typically what you would see. And I go to a gurdwara now in new Jersey. And one of the unique things

about that gurdwara that's not true everywhere is that it's a lot of it is kid led, and a lot of it is actually girl led. Um, and so having two daughters again, I didn't tell Janet, hey, make sure there's gender parity and these kinds of things that I care about. Um, but she intuitively put these girls on stage playing different instruments. And I saw that and I was like, yes, that's my life. And so just to sort of see through someone else's lens, that they are also seeing the world in the way that you do,

there's something really cool about that. Yeah. She really captured like one of the things the layers right in in your book is this young girl moving from one city to another and and experiencing the celebration of Vaisakhi in two different environments with her community and finding friendship in her new place. And so hopefully you all will have a chance to see those later pages where she meets a friend who is making her feel even more welcome now that they've found their community and their new neighborhoods. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I want to I want to

turn it over to Jasmine here. She's the she's the real expert. I have a couple books under my belt. She has done a lot and some big titles that you've definitely heard and seen. And so you might be a little surprised to know what she's worked on, but I'd love to hear from you. Just to start, why picture books? What is it about them that draws you in and why do you think they're important? Um, my mom took me and my sister to the New York Public Library every Saturday. The Parkchester branch in the Bronx.

And since then I've been in love with picture books and art. Picture books are a gallery that you carry around. It's so important to, like, see visual representation. And I was obsessed with, like, the different styles of art. And I wanted to like pour over the images, which is also why it's important who is painting and who is illustrating these stories, because they're bringing themselves and their experience into the imagery. Um, also picture books as a language like and it's own visual vocabulary. When kids are experiencing a picture book on their own without anyone reading

to them, they are the artist is talking directly to them before they have the ability to recognize the letters and words and sounds on the page, and that is like a really special connection that an artist has with kids. and it is really what inspires me to continue doing this work. And every book is a learning opportunity. I think I've met lots of parents who say, oh, I wish this book existed when I was a kid. And I say that. And our team says that all the time. Every time we get a manuscript and we're

just like, you know, this book fills a gap that we've had, and we bring that excitement to all of our projects, and each one is a learning experience. >> That's great. Could you maybe take us through some of the some of the books or. Sure. Yeah. Um, so just a grounding information. The publishing industry is mostly homogeneous. And these surveys, there is a difference in current surveys which QR codes will send you to. Kokila's mission is to bridge the gap, um, in three parts in the stories and the stories that we publish, the wide range,

the different backgrounds and communities we're inviting in, in the creators themselves, who is telling the stories, what their lived experiences are. And in our editorial team, we are a team of women of color. We collaborate with, uh, copy editors, uh, sensitivity readers, experts. With every project, we bring other collaborators in to make sure we're taking a full view at the story. And I'll take you through some of the books and share some anecdotes about what each of those, um, what each of those artists stood out to me, our, our conversations around developing those picture books

and any kind of like, behind the scenes that might be interesting. Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah. Thank you. So Hair Love has got to be one of our most popular and well known books. Thank you all. It's a it's a really great picture book about centers. A dad who just loves his daughter and is alone working on her hair, and she wants to have a special hairstyle for when mom comes home. And Vashti Harrison had worked with Matthew to create character sketches for his Kickstarter for the animated short, and the book was due to publish

before the animated short, and we were hoping we'd get Vashti to collaborate on the picture book, knowing that she was interested in picture books because she just announced her little Lydia series, and she was she was excited to get the call. And so her art centers young black girls, and she renders hair beautifully, especially natural hair textures. So like her art was going to shine in the storyline of this book. That's great. And I wonder if you could maybe could you take us behind the scenes? I know we had talked a while back about some

of the conversations around, um, a young black man, like some of the cultural assumptions around that. The tattoo. Right. Was it was there something there? There was, of course. Um, so in our process, we have like it's picture books is a labor of love. It can take anywhere between six months, 12 months, 18 months, and then it publishes a year after everything is finished. And so in that process, we're looking at sketches, character sketches, and we Namrata and I had a conversation about Stephen's depiction and we were wondering, oh, does Stephen look a little young?

We're thinking a dad is a guy in his 30s. And so we asked Matthew, we say, hey, Matthew, what do you think about Stephen's age? Does he come off too young? And so Matthew says to us, you know, actually, no, I really intentionally planned for Stephen to be a dad in his 20s with tats and locks. That is a loving, doting father because that is going to expand on the images we see in media of who's a girl dad and who's like a loving dad. And that was a learning moment for us. You know, that

our own respectability politics was kind of like, you know, person in their 30s, this kind of like having children and they're like the responsible. And, you know, part of the work that we do is being open to feedback and being open to what the creators are, their mission for the story and what that work is doing in children's book media. Super interesting. Thank you. Yeah. Born on the water part of the 1619 project. This is a very important book. It gives us valuable context of US history. It shows black history that's usually denied and silenced.

And one of the important parts of telling this story was Nicole and Rene's intentional outline of the history, and they placed the first third of the book on the continent of Africa to show the richness, the vibrancy, the life and the expertise that was stolen. And Nicholas Smith, who maybe some of you all heard speak yesterday, he is an artivist. And his mission. His mission in art is to highlight black history and to bring awareness to certain issues that affect us all. And he's very passionate about that. And his Sunday sketch series that he shares

on social media really put us put him on our radar for this particular project. He came in each third of the book. He created scarification motifs, one for life, death and rebirth. And you see those in the texture of the canvas, and you see that even more highlighted on the endpapers of the book. He the level of research that Nicolas went through, he researched clothing, instruments, architecture, all of that. He wanted to make sure was visible and something that children can connect to and feel proud of. That's amazing. You know, I I'm teaching a course

right now on American religious history, and one of the one of the conversations we've been having, um, is right along the lines of what you mentioned, which is so often we tell the stories of our past as if they're ruptures. That happened out of nowhere, right? And we erase the actual experience of people prior to the moment of hardship or rupture, however we describe it. And so I really appreciate this, this point of like, well, what does it look like to tell the continuous story of a people as opposed to just that one segment that

we're always focused on? Mhm. Yeah. Thank you. Picture books are like like this is an opportunity to correct a history, to correct depictions of people so that children are not poisoned by what is fed in mass media. Mhm. My rainbow. So this collaboration is between 2 or 3 actually activists for queer rights. Darshana. This this book is about darshana making a wig for their child. Trinity, who expressed to them the importance of appearing physically to the world with long hair. And so Darshana sets on to make this really beautiful, colorful wig for their child. And

what drew us to Artslink for this work is they are a queer rights activist. They, in their work, show the intersectionality between the LGBTQIA+ community within race abilities and different backgrounds, different body types. So they were really into showing the range of LGBTQIA life. And we thought that that would that this story would resonate with them and add to their sort of activism in a positive portrayal of the queer community. And they are drawn to everything that's queer, colorful and cute, which is what this book is. And it was a really great collaboration, one of

the cool sort of production things we were able to do was have a different image on the jacket and on the case Art twink has on the jacket with the flowers shown, Trinity with a crown of flowers kind of paying like a giving honor to how Trinity wants to be viewed by the world. And then you take off the jacket and it reveals the beautiful wig that their mom made for them. I might I might ask a question that if it's if it's confidential, don't answer. But is there a story here about what they submitted

and then how that changed over time? Yeah. We could lift a we could lift the carpet a little bit on that. So this story came in as a coming out story. And part of the process is to do a team read. And during the team read, our publisher and the book's editor, Namrata, had asked and thought, I wonder if this book is being written for the gatekeepers, being written for someone who has had nhsis and in a way trying to convince them the gatekeeper of Trinity's humanity. And so she called the creators and their agent

and kind of had a conversation and asked a question and said to them, what's the story that you would write knowing that I believe in Trinity's humanity and rights? What's the story you want to tell me then? And that conversation, they had changed the course of the book. Yeah. It sounded. I heard that, and it stuck with me because I felt similar as a writer. Um, as I'm preparing a book and a book proposal. Um, it's not just about will people buy it before you even get it out into the market? You have to get

an editor and a publisher to buy in. And so to what extent are you writing to them? Do they do you expect people in an industry that's predominantly white and cis and, and all these things, like, will they get you? Um, and in a society where we are constantly told, like I was as a kid, like, you're not relatable. People don't get you. Then how are you adjusting your presentation so that it's palatable to someone? And so anyway, it's really interesting to hear that story. And I'm it's helpful to me. It's been helpful as I've

gone through the process to learn that there are imprints within the big houses in the industry that are attentive to these issues. It's a core pillar to Kokila's mission, which is inviting people from marginalized and traditionally marginalized communities. That is how we want to pull the center that way. We want to pull the center to forge saying, who's like this incredible athlete, a sick man who wears a turban and is doing incredible things and pull the center to Vaisakhi, an important festival in Sikh religion and belief system. And so that is showing a full range

of like what it is to be sick, to what it is to be black, what it is to be queer. We want all of the range. It's not just a flattened view of what identities and people's backgrounds typically get. Sam's super seats. So I really love this book. It's really adorable. It's about Sam, who has cerebral palsy, and she's going back. She's going back to school shopping with her best friends. And it's created by Kia Brown, who's the creator of Hashtag Disabled and Cute. And she wrote The Pretty One. And Sherry Miller was a really

great compliment to this art because of how she centers young black girls. She has like fashion and hair styles in her artwork, and Sam's a fashionista, so we knew that Sherry would kind of like, pull that from the story. And in discussing Sam's physical characterization, we talked about how cerebral palsy would be visible on the page, and Kia supplied a lot of feedback. And in that Sherry kind of took that in and illustrated Sam showing scars on her legs and on her hands, which are typical for a child this age with cerebral palsy and the

number of operations and surgeries that they would have had at this point in their life. It was also important for readers to see how Sam moves and how she moves throughout the day. So that was something that Shari accomplished in a series of spot illustrations. We kind of get to see her gait, and this book teaches everybody a valuable lesson to listen to your body when it needs rest and shut it down. Mm. That's good. That's a good lesson. Always a good lesson. Oh, wait. Before I get here. I'm sorry. We actually have a collaboration

coming up. Yeah. Next book. Next book. Tentatively titled We Belong to the world. Yeah. Can you give us a sneak peek? Sure. Yeah. So? So this is not the book that's launching today, but the next project, which I will say honestly, is the the hardest book. It took me like two years, which is a lot for 700 words. But it's, you know, I, I've been playing with this concept, which came out through a conversation with a friend, but also comes from my own tradition. And then I'm doing a lot with teaching indigenous traditions right now

and, and thinking about decolonizing and postcolonial studies and all these things. And one of the, the, the challenges that I'm finding in our society today is how consumptive it is, how much we tell ourselves that the more we have, the happier we'll be, which is we all know is not true. But how do we talk about that with our kids? And so I it started with this idea of owning land, a very simple idea in some ways. But to say like we, is it really possible to does it make sense to own land that we

it's here when we get here. It's here after we die. Like, does the land kind of own us and we don't own the land. And so there's been this, like spiritual teaching in my tradition around understanding that you don't actually own anything and you don't. Nothing belongs to you. You belong to the world, which is sort of the inspiration for the title. And so it's it's sort of playing with this, this image of these, this kid who's going through this process of, you know, collecting things and trying to keep them and realizing that they don't

stay and that there's a better way to have a relationship with the world that we see in different traditions, including my own and indigenous traditions, which is just like you're part of it. And if you can understand, you're part of it, you actually get to have all of it. And so that's sort of the inspiration it was. You can understand now why it was so difficult to write because I wanted it to capture that, but also be relatable for children. But also poetic. But I'm really excited that we've landed on it, and I think two

years is what we're looking at in terms of the timeline. So yeah. Thank you. Well, I read the manuscript and it is a poem. It is so beautiful and lyrically written. Um, part of the Kokila process, which you already know is I'll read the manuscript and put together a deck of dozens of artists and we'll talk about, like, what each artist could bring to that story. And I when I read it, it kind of like what was sort of themes that were surfacing for me was sort of like, you know, the elements earth, air, water

and imagery is popping in my head, and I'm thinking of an artist who might have a beautiful approach to landscapes, someone who is connected to the land and connected to nature. And so instinctively they're going to understand how to depict sort of these big ideas that you're introducing in the text. So I'm I've got some ideas. Cooking. Yeah. Oh that's good to hear. I this is a window into something new for me. So I appreciate I appreciate hearing this part of the process. Awesome. Yeah. Is there anything in particular that you would like to see

in the deck? No. I mean, you know, what I'm scared of is I mean, not scared. But the reality of our current political landscape is, um, a book like this and the books you do, and I think a lot of kokila's books in general, um, are subject to bans. And, you know, a book like this which is asking us to think about capitalist structures and decolonizing and so on, will lend itself to that. I wonder if you might talk for a moment about what book banning has looked like for you all, and how you're dealing

with it. I mean, there's a lot of rage, I'm sure that rage is shared in the room. And one thing that Namrata will say is that we are at the intersection of rage and hope, and so we need to be focused on our mission, on our books, on the creators that we collaborate with. And, you know, we can't make the books fast enough. We want we want them out there and we are supported by our parent company. PR is steadfast in, you know, a book for every reader that is every experience across the spectrum of

points of view. And, you know, they have a really great resource to share, and I'd love to share that with folks in the room. Um, the right to read. And in here there's um, there's resources for librarians, illustrators, authors, parents, community members who are facing book bans. There are book resumes that will help, um, talk about the book summary book awards, Ward's book previews any information that you might need on the book. And there's also going to be a panel tomorrow titled Let Me Just Get This Right so you all can add that to your

schedules. Guardians of democracy librarians ensure information access featuring Skip D, who is on the PR team heading up a lot of the book banning fight. That's great. Yeah. Thank you, thank you. I think we have a few minutes for questions. So if we might have some of those pop up here and we'll invite any conversations. Let me start with this one. Um, how do you balance storytelling that introduces difficult or complex themes while keeping it age appropriate and engaging for young readers? I don't know if you have thoughts on that. I have a few. I

think my thoughts on that is that children understand when they're being lied to and things aren't being said authentically. And I think there is a way to discuss any topic gently and age appropriately. But I feel like sometimes age appropriately is being used as a way to censor and take away resource. Yeah, it's so interesting to hear you say that. I'm thinking about this first and foremost from my position as a parent, where we have a really similar rule in our house, which is no lying. Like no lying to the kids when they ask questions.

And like, you can enter into any conversation with them in age appropriate ways. And also recognizing that age appropriate is sometimes a Trojan horse for not talking about things that feel uncomfortable. And so what I would ask is when you're when you're using the phrase age appropriate, do you mean it's appropriate for their age. As in sorry, let me say this again. What I would ask is, are you talking about one child in particular? Are you talking about children generally at that age? Because sometimes certain kids of an age, let's say my daughter's, for example.

Right. I have a six year old. She can't avoid conversations around race and discrimination because she's a kid of color. Other kids can avoid those conversations. So. So to ensure that when you're using the word age appropriate, you're not saying of particular identities because you want to shelter your kids because it feels uncomfortable. I actually think the opposite is actually true in terms of education. I don't know if that resonates for you. Absolutely. And for for parents, I think it's it's important to sit in the discomfort. And picture books are actually a tool. They will

give you the language to speak about the topics that you may not be knowledgeable on or you may not be comfortable with, but it is a learning tool for you, and it shouldn't be removed from a child's learning experience. Yeah, here's one from Lisa. If you could make one fundamental change in the way children's books are created, distributed or taught, what would it be and why? I got one to start. I'm sure you have a lot since you're like, deep in the industry, but your boss is probably listening to you, so be careful. Um, my

my biggest change would be. Okay. So. So in some ways, you could listen to the story I told you earlier and say, oh, this guy figured it out in other ways. You have to understand that, like, it was a long struggle and it was much harder than it needed to be. And it happened to be that by virtue of a number of lucky breaks, things worked out. But for most people, they don't, right? It's almost like it turned out to be exceptional in my experience, as opposed to for most. And so the the the barriers

to entry into children's publishing are so many, and one of the biggest ones for me was as I started to bring my stories into the world. In each genre, I've written in a few different genres now, the standard reaction was there's no proof of concept, there's no market, there's no market testing here. Right? Like we don't know if a book like yours will sell because nobody's done it before. And I'm like, yeah, so if nobody's done it before, like we have to somebody has to start to try it out, right? Like so this chicken and

egg problem is a real challenge for a lot of folks. And like my solution has been to find people like at places like Kokila who have been willing to take the risks, but there aren't as many of those as I wish there would be. So that was a big change that I would love to see. Yeah. Namrata, our president and publisher, actually is always advocating for every book in any facet of the industry that she thinks is necessary. And so in that case, I don't worry about what I say up on the stage. I think

our team is invested in every project. We want to open the doors wider. You know, there's no niche thing. There's no unrelatable thing. I think those are excuses, lazy excuses. And we fight for every book to be accessible in every place that we can put books. Yeah, I love that. Well thank you. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for your work in the picture book world. It's really exciting. Thank you all for being here and for what you all do. We're grateful as people who are in the book world for for your work. So,

so thank you all. And thank you, Simran, for adding books to the shelf that are so vital and needed. Thank you. Thank you. >> All.