Robert Greene | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #503

I have some new tour dates to tell you about we've added a third show in London on June 16th at the EV Tim Apollo we also have shows in New York City on May 31 Belfast in the UK on June 6th that's an added show June 7th is sold out Idaho Falls we've added a show on June 27th Salt Lake City Utah on June 30th and Las Vegas on July 5th and 6th uh at Resorts World Las Vegas get all of your tickets at Theo van.com and uh if tickets are too expensive just wait we'll

come back around U make sure you buy them through our link um and not off of a secondary site thank you guys so much for your support today's guest is one of the bestselling authors of the last 20 years you may know him from his books the 48 Laws of Power and Mastery as well as The Art of Seduction and more books um we're going to talk about relationships human interaction um we cover a lot of ground and I'm grateful to talk with Mr Robert [Music] Green I'll sit and tell you my stories shine on

me and I will find a song I [Applause] will thank you so much man oh you're very welcome really please that's really really nice of you oh my pleasure that's a wonderful gift to have 48 Laws of Power right there yeah um yeah thanks for coming to meet you very nice to meet you oh thanks same yeah thank you for all the inspiration uh yeah thank you for taking the time to think and write down your thoughts and things that make you feel something or things that you feel are worth sharing with the world yeah

well it's been what I've been doing for 26 28 years now hopefully I can keep going for another 10 20 years yeah unless the government puts like a word limit on people or El I get canceled or some for some reason yeah yeah I mean I don't think so though I don't think so I think we would sometimes I wish the government would put a word limit oh sure on a lot of people God yeah cuz then you'd have that be wonderful you'd have to really articulate you mean for books or just in talking maybe

only in talking because books because books it's more of a choice people can go to choose to look in it you know and read it but talking it's like yeah you only you got like a you got you got a thousand words a day and of course some people would have more we have less if they're really obnoxious or irritating we cut it down to like 200 words a day yeah maybe your neighbors vote on how many you have or there's um but yeah I think it would be great then if you're at yeah like

especially like if if a guy's W like a lot of guys would be like hey guys come over to the house today you know Marjorie only has four words left this month that'd be wonderful yeah so the good times over here you know we're going to be able to do whatever we want well well the ancient Greeks had this thing um called ostra key where they would put on little clay tablets fragments of a clay pot you could write down the name of somebody that you wanted to banish from the city yes and then every

year they would collect that and they would banish the person who got the most votes because he's inevitably the most obnoxious person in the whole city you imagine how wonderful that would be if we had something like that I would love that well you would think if we get to vote people forward we should be able to also vote people off the island yeah right yeah yeah oh that would be so wonderful and it could even start in your own home you know with your kids I mean okay I think it's up to the I

mean it would be it'd be quite an a topic for family discussion yeah oh here it is right here o o ostracism that's what the word ostracism comes from W that's pretty cool they got that yeah was an Athenian Democratic procedure in which any citizen could be expelled from the city state of Athens for 10 years so you get a chance to get it together while some instances clearly Express popular anger at the citizen ostracism was often used preemptively it was used as a way of neutralizing someone thought to be a threat to the state

or a potential Tyrant though in many cases popular opinion often informed the expulsion wow wow that's that's pretty cool they put that up there well broken pottery yeah that's what it say shards were used served as a kind of scrap paper yeah wow that'd be exciting yeah it would it would yeah let's bring it back yeah let's bring it back huh be a movement um yeah you've written so much man 48 Laws of Power um Mastery are the books that I've um absorb the most of okay um which is so nice to have this this

is so cool man I really lit up when you gave me that thank you um and a lot of what we talk about on this show for a lot of young men and women is purpose you know and and what it means to have purpose and how to find purpose and you talk a lot about that in Mastery um about purpose do you think that everyone has purpose well it's a difficult question to answer I mean uh I believe that everyone the way I look at it is you Theo were born with a DNA that

will never be replicated in the past or in the future it's unique marker of you right so genetically there is something different about you weird odd great what however you want to put it okay and it's like something that's planted at your birth it's what makes you different from everybody else it's even what makes you different from your parents right I mean you do inherit their genetics but it's always different okay and so that that's like a seed at your birth if you cultivate that seed if you cultivate your unique it gives you a purpose

in life it's what you it's why you are unique you can look at it as if somebody or it's just nature intended it to be this way but it what it's what makes you you it's your energy it's your character it's your weirdness it's your sense of humor it's what draws you to certain things what you hate about certain things it's you if you listen to that it's like a voice inside of your head instead of listening to all the other [ __ ] that's around you what you're parents are saying what your teachers are

saying what your friends are saying if you listen to that voice clearly it directs you it gives you a purpose now I'm saying everybody has that potential I see but quite clearly not everybody in fact few people actually go that far so if you see somebody out there in the public eye yourself or others who's reached a level of Fame and success you can say that there's no nobody else like them out there they're unique they're oneof a kind right you can say that about Steve Jobs you can say that about Elon Musk you can

say that about political figures etc etc yeah Richard Simmons Mr T yeah okay 50 cents somebody I've worked with there's only one person like them that's because they found their uniqueness and they brought it out and they cultivated they're not afraid of it and that's what gives them their purpose a lot of people are afraid of being different that the one that's one of the worst things that can happen to you yeah because it's what makes you different that is what makes you powerful so to answer your question in my long-winded way everybody has a

purpose but not everybody follows it not everybody connects to it yeah I guess there's a lot of fear in it huh because you're going to be different you're going to have to choose to people are going to look at you the eyes of the tribe are going to turn towards you yeah if you try to step out into a different March than the group yeah you know sometimes I would see like yeah sometimes you ever be like on a floor somewhere and you just see one ant by itself yeah and you're like this guy is

a gangster well they're called Scout ants I mean I wish they were gangsters but what they're doing is they're looking for food or something and they're signaling to the Army hey guys here's where it's happening let's follow me oh damn yeah I thought they were dudes that were like you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna do something different well that would be that would be the more interesting interpretation but so then are there some PE so so it's not that some people don't have a purpose it's just that some people are able to hear an

in hear a voice inside of them that directs them more towards their purpose yeah I mean so what is it I call it in master I call it a primal inclination so we see that in certain people so at a very very young age and I maintain it happens to everybody but you forget about it so you look at like Albert Einstein he was like four years old and his father gave him a compass and he was like mesmerized by it because it meant that there was some kind of force out there that was moving

the needle of the compass invisible force for a child that was an overwhelming thought that there's something out there in the universe that is moving something but you can't see it it had a lasting influence on his whole way of of of Science and wanting to discover these unseen forces Tiger Woods when he was like two years old his father would be hitting golf balls in the garage and and he would be going the little baby tiger would be going crazy like I got to do this he was so enamored with just just the the

physicality of it he had to do it I could go on and on and on with athletes with dancers with writers I mean I I'm not putting myself on their level but I had a relationship when I was 6 years old or so to words words just mesmerized me I couldn't believe believe that there was a word that meant something I I was entranced by the sound of it by the look of it Etc oh yeah well even just to think that a bunch of letters would get together and party like that yeah yeah exactly

yeah CU I remember like first they taught us letters and I was like okay but then the word showed up and I was like oh okay they're in gangs yeah yeah you know it's there's some real turf wars out here that's right um yeah I so I guess the the best way for a parent then to probably help help associate their child or give them the best opportunity to find or to bring their purpose to a boil would be to present them with more options do you feel like like is that kind of what you're

saying well yes and no I mean um parents try to do too much sometimes so CH children are more interesting they're more powerful they're more they're smarter than we think they are we give we don't give them enough credit so they find their ways to the things that excite them and interest them what you're looking for in your child is that spark that look in their eye of excitement they can't control it I'm so excited by this I have to do it yeah it can be physical activity it could be music it could be math

it could be technology it could be objects and their colors when they have that excitement lean into it don't try and tell them oh I don't know you can't make a living do doing that you want to be a rock and roll star you'll never make a living you got to go become a lawyer cut that crap out let them go into their into their Lane of excitement encourage that because that is a sign of what I'm talking about that purpose that you were born with is there is there like certain ways or times or

moments that you would create for yourself or that you would suggest people create for themselves to try and hear that that voice of purpose well it's a very interesting question and it's a very difficult one because I get a lot of people writing to me saying you know Robert I hear what you said I've read your book but I have no idea I can't hear it anymore right right I'm lost right because there's still a lot of guys who were young adolescence and middle-aged and who are like I I still don't know what my purpose

is yeah well so when you're younger There's Hope like you're 16 you'll find it man and I and I've helped people who are younger find that path it's easier by the time you're 30 or 40 it gets more and more difficult when you're 50 uh I don't know it's possible but it's harder and harder and harder I didn't really find my Niche if you will until I was about 38 years old but until then I'd been I knew it was writing I just couldn't figure out what kind of writing but you have to go through

a process the problem that most people have is they're not connected to themselves they're too outer directed they're not inner directed so what you need to be doing is you need to be looking at yourself not listening to others not listening to what's on social media not listening to what your peers are saying but listening to yourself who you are what really truly excites you you have to cut out all that other stuff that your parents told you that other people are telling you and so you're looking for signs of things that bring back you're

looking for your childhood again for that child inside of you that got so excited about those things but that you forgot yeah there is not a child on the planet that doesn't have that in Mastery I have a story in there about a woman named temple grandon temple grandon was born with severe autism it like she would have to be committed for her entire life to hospitalization right she was very deep on the Spectrum but she had a teacher that kind of slowly Drew her out and she disc discovered at very early age that that

excitement was animals and a lot of autistic people and people on the Spectrum have a very intense relationship to animals it's humans that they can't quite relate to but animals excite the hell out of them yeah humans can be so trashy too yeah and and they can be so deceptive and tricky but animals are are genuine right she found it's animals I love and she became a scientist dealing with an animals animal behavior and so somebody born with deep deep autism found her way to that voice yeah so I bring that up as if someone

like that can do it anybody can do it but it's that she really really wanted to break out of the shell that she had been in so it's the level of Desire if you're if you're 20 years old and you're lost and you're worried about it but you're hungry and you don't want to be like your whole life wandering you have a good chance but a lot of people don't have that energy they don't have that desire it's not strong enough in them and it's going to be a very much more difficult process bring up

Temple gron I know she created didn't she create a more I I don't if that's the right word heartwarming way to decease the animals yes I mean you that's you put it more or less correctly I mean um she her idea was cattle she had a very deep connection to cows and cattle they're going to be slaughtered anyway she's not going to end she herself eats eats steak Etc she's not going to end it but if you're going to have to kill them so that you know for people who who eat meat then let's do

it as humanely as possible yeah so she created a a way one of the worst things is the whole process of how we Slaughter animals it's so horrifying for them right so she had found a way to make them comfortable so that they don't really know where they're going when they're go being led to the slaughterous where she knew exactly how to comfort them how to make them feel soothed in those moments a little more bait and switch like Yeah just something to yeah just not make it such so horrific yeah um not make it

such a haunted house yeah um well because also when they're so distressed they release all these kind of hormones and things that are actually very bad for us as well and then it's in the food I believe that a ton yeah um so does everyone have the chance to find their purpose say if somebody like you know they accidentally got a girlfriend pregnant in high school something like that they you know and they got really put off track uh developed a lot more responsibility because sometimes responsibility takes away the freedom that you have even even

just the space in your life to feel anything right um but those people aren't they don't not have a purpose maybe they just haven't been able to to reach it well yeah I I mean these things happen to everyone we're all human beings we're flawed we don't we don't have we can't see the future we when especially when we're young we make mistakes we do things that we we later regret Etc and I've dealt with people who say you know I'm stuck in a horrible horrible job I have just like your scenario I have a

child I have to to support family to support and I'm flipping Burger I'm working at Dairy Queen I don't care whatever it is right yeah selling things selling yeah braiding hair at the beach something like that or telemarketing back in the day you know so what do I do well the first thing you have to do is you have to realize that you have to want to get out of it you have to want it badly enough so you got to figure out a path out of this trap that you're in and it is a

trap because if you're living paycheck to paycheck it becomes a habit and it's going to stay with you your whole life so every time there isn't a paycheck you're going to freak out you're going to go get the quickest easiest job that you can get you have to break out of that so I tell people even in the most despondent circumstances first of all think of what is that childhood thing that you loved it it doesn't have to be spefic doesn't have to be a very specific job it's just something that excited you all right

okay we want to start moving in that direction so let's say you're you're you're flipping burgers but what really excites you is video games and program which is fine that could be a path in life right MH but you want to be a programmer you want to be the person creating video games all right so let's do some research what is the first step that usually what's the entry-level job that people take what is the education that will lead to that kind of thing all right here's step it's like three possibilities you go to school

you study this you get a job doing that whatever okay you're going to choose one of them right and you're going to start doing it right away so you still have your job you're still paying for your family but you're going to go to school at night you're going to take a side job when you go home at night you're going to study things on the internet which is an amazing resource that nobody had 30 years ago you're going to learn new skills in your spare time you know even in the only two or three

hours a day that you have you're going to create a little space in your brain for moving in that direction a little wedge that's going to open up and i' and I've had this feedback just knowing that that's happening that's just knowing that's a possibility that I don't have to be flipping burgers that I don't have to be this horrifying soul sucking salesman my whole life and that I can go this other route it's enough to excite the hell out of it's enough to get you out of it it's enough to give your life some

meaning and some purpose yeah and then you will build you will follow that sort of thing that energy it's like it really becomes a magnet in your life yeah how how did you find your way what was it what was it that that can you go back yeah I remember well I wanted to I I think I wanted to make my mother laugh you know my mother was always stressed out and wow and I sorry I don't mean to laugh no it's funny terrible it's it is what it is you know and she would uh

but sometimes she' go lay in her bikini outside and have a beer or whatever and um so we left her alone on that during those hours but um otherwise I think I wanted to make her laugh I don't know the second I [Music] saw I don't this may sound crazy to some people I remember being like in a might have just been my bed or I don't think it was a crib because I I hate when people say I remember at four months old like that I think that's insane you don't remember [ __ ]

yeah you've been using you've been using and but I remember one time I just remember being in my bed and my brother like poked his head up and I just remember it just made me laugh and it was like the first thing I remember that made me feel so good uhhuh and I just I I loved it that's interesting and then when I saw like if somebody laughed that they even if they were sad like and you could get them to laugh it it could that someone could be crying and then a laugh could get

through that yeah and man I just found that to it was like watching Lightning it's like power yeah it was it was and it was just like watching Lightning I think and so um yeah I think I loved that and then the other thing that ever the happiest day I ever had in my life I was in I was a student actually on an exchange thing and I was in India um the country and um we had to we worked at this children's home uh clearing the land or something so they could make a playground

there and I just I still remembered it was the greatest feeling that I ever had just that this one day um so yeah those are things in my life how old were you this the India part was I was probably 20 oh but the laughter was just most of my youth I just became obsessed with laughter I just cuz it was a trump card it was like yeah it could be a sad moment it could already be a happy moment you could take it to another level well let's just imagine a scenario were you're 26

and you're you and you somehow got off on the wrong track somewhere would you be able to like remember that and remember the power and the feeling that you had when you that laughter and and then when you were a kid and your brother and then go back to it in some way yeah I think I would notice I think it's you can know I feel like it's kind of easy to know what really makes you feel good yeah I just think that sometimes circumstances have sailed our ship you know kind of far in in

other directions and so we may be able to appease ourselves but we may not get to a level of Mastery of it in this lifetime that's right um just because of circumstances you know um and then if people another thing I notice is like a lot of times you know some people aren't always going to be trying to achieve and do more uh I notice I I a lot of times I enjoy also just feeling content like if I can feel content that is a victory right um like what do you mean like just if

I can feel at peace yeah right like not not only not maybe maybe I might be a little bummed if I'm not striving for something but I'm not upset that I'm that I'm not at a level or in a place with something a certain thing right so being just content like is there there's nothing wrong with being content no the only thing is um if you're completely lost in life if you didn't if you hadn't become a comedian you've gone on the wrong track it's harder to have those moments of contentment because it gnaws at

you and you become a little bit bitter and as you get older and those childhood dreams start getting fading you feel resentful and some dark energy can start taking over and that contentment can be harder and harder to come by but to have moments of peace to have moments where you're just happy and you're you you've got your your kids are on the you're raising them well etc etc that's fine that's beautiful that's another form of Mastery I just think and I could be wrong because I'm not inside the skin of other people and I've

only known myself I I have to say but if uh I could say that pretty confidently but you know I I have the feeling that if you don't know what you're doing and you're just flailing around in life it's hard to have those peaceful moments in your day-to-day existence you may find them but what will happen is you will try and grab because this is the nature of the human animal you will try to grab that contentment through quick things through drugs through online porn through whatever will'll give you that quick instant little buzz of

gratification oh yeah and that'll become your habit and you'll feel kind of I don't know if it's contentment you know you'll feel something some form of pleasure but those Pleasures become harder and they come smaller and smaller and smaller and quicker and quicker and quicker and so it's a trap that you fall into so I still believe that if you figure out what you were meant to do in life it opens up doors to having other moments where you don't have to constantly be pursuing you don't have to constantly be striving you know like I

can sit down and I can watch a basketball game tonight and enjoy it and not feel like I'm wasting my time because I work so much hard during the day right yeah I think that's kind of what I'm getting at is it doesn't have to be occupational oh finding your purpose no yeah yeah cuz sometimes I think the best thing that a uh a person could be could be a parent for sure believe me we need more of them yeah God damn that should be like a job that people should get a degree for really

should you know yeah I would Subs if government subsidized parenting good parenting wow I would be or put people to school to go learn how to do it yeah yeah oh well there should be a there should be at least a fet when you leave the hospital yeah that says hey these are seven things you have to do right but you know I think I don't have kids so it's easy for me to say oh yeah me either so we're just obviously a couple of Griff is yelling at people yeah right but no I I

I do think though that there should be something um that tells a parent basic things because you can't just assume everyone has the has the the knowledge just because they can conceive a child that's right you need to know it today's episode is sponsored by prize picks that's how you pick them if you like firing on Sports like I do prize picks is the best daily fantasy sports app for you what I like about it is that it's Unique you can fire on all your favorite sports like NBA UFC NHL and many more but instead

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f r the people.com this past weekend or dial pound law pound 529 from your sell this is a paid advertisement is pornography causing a problem in your life that's a good question it's a real question it has in mind it has at certain periods in my life uh watching porno and everything and watching porno was making me it was ruining my life it was ruining my life man made me feel just so much shame that's what it did well watching pornography has become commonplace today and often times men will use porno to numb the pain

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how rare like like how unique is it that a person exists how unique is a is an individual H well it's something I'm going into in my into my new book um and I'm trying to tell you how you must realize how strange it is for you to be alive at this moment I don't know if that's quite your question is no I think it is kind of how rare is it like how like sometimes I want to be able to remember how rare I am and not just me I just I mean that as

a voice of of a human I I want to be I want to remind myself more often that I am I am a one of one and not me but every person yeah um well the way I try to describe it in my in my new book I'm not going to go into the full thing because it'll take hours but first of all the idea that our planet has life on it is incredibly strange and weird it was like an accident totally fortuitous we know billions of other planets that have no life right so something

snapped three billion years ago four billion years ago that we don't understand wow all right from that point on life evolved in this weird fashion and there was this moment about 600 million years ago called the um God the word escapes me it's a period in history mesal no no no it's it's before that um it'll it it'll come to me later um it's 600 million years ago 600 million years ago suddenly life became complex it'll come to me at some point maybe it's the Cretaceous Period spring or something Cretaceous crous Cretaceous so um some

suddenly complex life Evol Cambrian explosion Cambrian explosion thank you sir sorry not to cut you off but 600 million years ago the earth experienced an evolutionary event which has never been repeated the Cambrian explosion saw a huge increase in new life forms many of which laid the foundations for the body plans of all subsequent animal life wow I've never even heard of that so yeah so this this guy um stepen Jay Gould who wrote a book about the Cambrian explosion and how there were these forms of life and he has pictures in his book of

these really grotesque looking creatures that lived in the ocean because all life was in water then and if only one plan survived which is the plan that all bodies basically have right with a head etc etc but if that hadn't happened it almost didn't the most the strangest most weird looking forms of life would be walking around this planet you have to see these pictures to believe it right anyway um that happened okay then we I can go on and on and on then there were the dinosaurs and the dinosaurs disappeared because of we now

know because of a a meteor uh U what do you call it a uh heat or something no no no a meteor hit hit the oh Big Bang Yeah or like a yeah a meteor wiped everything out it shook the whole thing huh about 60 million years ago right it ended to the extinction of dinosaurs but that but that meteor could have easily missed planet Earth if it had shifted just a slight degree it could have hit somewhere else but it landed in exactly the spot in the Yucatan Peninsula that caused the greatest amount of

damage if that hadn't happened dinosaurs would still be roaming the planet and then we wouldn't we wouldn't humans about 880,000 years ago nearly went extinct there were only about 8,000 of us we had been decimated by various illnesses Etc we very nearly went extinct as a species okay so humans surviving all of that surviving that life evolves surviving that life evolved in the way that it did that dinosaurs disappeared that mammals came on is extremely unlikely and then add on to this Theo the fact that your parents met and there was a chance that they

the chance that they met was probably a bit unlikely it could have easily been somebody else who was your father right and then you would still be you but you wouldn't be you exactly you'd be different multiply that by 70,00 generations going back to the earliest humans wow if they hadn't met in a certain way if they hadn't met each other you would be completely you wouldn't be you at all right so the fact that you were here the odds against it are so astronomical that you I say in the book you must have to

sit down on your knees and it's like almost like a religion you must think is so strange it is so miraculous that I'm I'm so grateful that I am who I am it is incredible there's a reason for that you yeah yeah I think that's something yeah that we all should yeah it's like that you were here like you were create there was there was purpose in you there was some the universe chose this yeah whoever you are the universe chose you whatever pain whatever Pro Prosperity whatever this walk is right now that you were

chosen for it it's it's like it I feel like it just gives um I don't know if it helps helps me have some ownership when I'm thinking of myself or I don't know what it does for me but I think it's important to hear that because I think more than ever now it feels like that individuality is getting lost for how rare we are to exist yeah like no we only only some of us have the same fingerprint none of us have same fingerprints right right that's crazy bro yeah you know and I think also

is this I I think I read that the everybody has a same nobody has the same sphincter either which is yeah the 11th fingerprint never thought of it that way yeah so that's crazy just to think that it you know at the at both ends they really got you sealed off you know very rare you know uniquely but it's definitely just but I feel like for as unique as we are we're losing individuality sometimes and that's a problem that I feel like is going on today a lot of it is is social media I mean

you don't want to beat that drum too much but I think there's some some truth to it where're we're too much attuned to what other people are doing and it's hard for us to think about what we want what we make what makes us different you know a lot of young people going to high school I mean I know I remember when I was in high school being being weird and different you you you you were you could be laughed at but I think it's much much worse right now really yes I do I mean

I I mean I was kind of a loner in high school kind of was a hippie had very long hair did a lot of drugs yeah buddy oh there you are right there Bubby green Robert Green right there wow me that's that's the 19-year-old Robert bro you look like you were looping right there gooing on some boom we were doing a lot of LSD at that time yeah you could see the tie dyed sofa behind me they had a tie dyed sofa believe look at that look at that thing yeah we were like getting into

the Grateful Dead if you can believe it oh yeah American Beauty yeah that album was out yeah yeah working class dead was the one that working man's dead was the one that we were that came out just at that time would you who would you who would you uh take it with by yourself or would you take it with friends oh we took it with friends yeah uh you really want me to go into this I mean the drug that we really really really liked at this point this we're talking about the 70s I'm an

old dude man um was peyote wow I never got to do it um it was really big because this was in Berkeley um and it was like it was like the trendy thing we were get there these buttons from cactus from Mexico or or Arizona and they were if you ate them you would like be incredibly sick so you had to pull out all these little hairs so that you could digest them without throwing up wow then you had to and they tasted absolutely horrible you had to be put them into these tiny little pieces

and eat it in like peanut butter or like a a milkshake so you didn't have just swallowed it man you'd be tripping like you now can't believe it it was just unbelievable totally Transcendent the most spiritual drug of all really yeah how would it get more like cuz spiritual is a unique word to use cuz LSD would get like freaky and weird sometimes mushrooms would get more spiritual I felt like definitely so PE do you felt like went even more spiritual than that I think so I think so I mean I I did it probably

maybe about a dozen times when I was younger yeah and um and I've done LSD and I've done mushrooms are pretty spiritual God I'm revealing all this crap of my youth but um no I think it's important a lot of people do these things especially psychedelics are coming back more than ever now um well I must say I don't do them anymore I mean I've I've tried little tiny micro dosing of mushrooms I don't do it anymore but it it had a very positive impact on me it opened my mind things that I will never

forget right experiences that still resonate in my brain that I may not create through drugs but I create through other means I like try to return to yeah spiritual Sensations that are very powerful so those drugs could be used could be I say for very positive purposes they shouldn't be used just for partying and just for forgetting yourself but they can be used to open what Aldos Huxley called the doors of perception yeah that's a great way yeah that's the biggest thing is just the perception cuz perception is how you change everything about your life

like um yeah mushrooms have helped me many times to have perception adjustment to realize where I was being uh not giving myself enough Grace or just being uh to trying to be control things to you know just to rele just to have a little more yeah cuz the mushrooms is like a sponge you know just to add a little bit more space into my into your how you view things or see and it could be anything a relationship I mean there's business situations I mean they can help so much I feel like um and they're

being used more than ever it seems like definitely you know but because yeah I've micro doed before that just micro do and I'll just like during the day at one point I'll just start I'll see a mosquito and I'll kind of follow him around the house for a minute then I'll go back to work but that's about as like weird as it gets you know that's pretty damn weird yeah I'm just kind of curious you know yeah just doing a little air traffic control seeing the little ant on the around there yeah just see where

he's going I'm like tell me if you're a scout yeah hey look dude if you're trying to get away from something blink once you know um so how long did peyote last did it last for like a long time you mean uh when you took it um well it would obvious like all those drugs you would you would take effect after about 40 minutes or so yeah and then um it would be very intense for about four or five hours and then it would kind of wear wear off it's kind of had the same sort

of span as mushrooms in a way it just depending on how much how many buttons you consumed if you consume like a dozen Button Man you'd be tripping for like several days well I don't think we went that far yeah you're damn elevator car at that point dude you're going up bro yeah but I mean it has an incredible history among among Native Americans and Mexicans yeah what did they use it for can you bring that up Nick I want to learn like if there was a distinctive like where they kind to talk to a

God cuz I can't imagine the first time they took it it must have blown their minds well it was the first time people experimented with all kinds of drugs you know that fascinates me how they how they didn't kill themselves how they knew that it had that effect in uh late 1800s the modern day Native American church was formed a key part of which is the ingestion of peyote as a religious Sacrament during all night prayer ceremonies in this context PE is not viewed as a drug but rather as a medicine for healing wow yeah

yeah that's kind of reminds me of like how aasa is these days it is very much so I've never done it I think aasa sounds even more intense yeah so I don't know but that's I think it's similar to that yeah I've had some good experiences with it for me it's been very uh therapeutic oh really yeah I don't think of it as a drug and I'm I understand if other people do that's fine I think of it as a medicinal drug but I don't think of it as a party you know it's very painful

to go sit there and you go through the filing cabinet of you who you are and pull out some files and kind of burn them in a way you know I don't know I'm a little bit frightened about that myself at my age you know oh you could Rock in there I think you think so yeah it doesn't I I find it to be actually not super invasive I could get up and go pee or go get a snack in the kitchen and then go sit back down and drop back into the meditation really yeah

and I felt very um okay with that well I know consider it yeah um how do you feel like we're like well one thing that I worry about with society today is since we watch so much of each other right we're never spending that time like getting to know ourselves kind of we're not you know I remember you used to just lie around all the time and sure it seemed like you were bored but your brain was like maybe coming up slowly building ideas or you know forming like um thoughts or hopes dude I remember

you used to be able to hope so much because you would hope you would see this girl across town or you would hope that she was going to be at summer camp or there was just no way to know everything so you had so much hope all the time and um now you just there's so much information that I feel like it's taken away a lot of Hope but I feel like even more so that and I don't want to be like Debbie down or there's still hope but I feel like it's subdued hope um

but I feel like if you're looking if we're always watching stuff then do we start to just mimic it instead of being individual that's what I worry about do you think that's possible like if we're always do we become more mimics than creators and has it always been that way do you think no I don't I think things are getting worse of course I don't know I don't have you know I can't see everything but my feeling is it is getting worse I mean um you know I do believe that there is something as vague

as the word is that is like a soul that a person has and that soul is connected to who you are as an individual like you're kind of born with it right and when you know who you are when you go deep into it when you connect to things that you really love when you connect to your memories from childhood to things that make you different that Soul's kind of alive it feels alive it feels vibrant it feels right yeah the feeling of rightness which is I people don't understand some things feel right some things

don't okay and I know for myself and I'm guilty of it if I spend an hour on Instagram chasing this thing or that thing or wasting my time on this website or whatever I have this feeling like a bit of my soul was sucked out of me yes that I kind of lost something that I'm just this kind of machine that's just processing data and I'm not a human being anymore and I feel that Soul kind of it's like a vapor that's escaping me right so yeah like they got me they tricked me the second

I set it down I feel like it almost takes a couple of seconds for it to you to get out of this trance yeah in a way it is a TR you're like dang they tricked me they did they did trick me yeah because a lot of the algorithms and and the just the entertainment value is of it is so strong sure it's entertaining but with all the time you spend doing that or that I or anybody spends it's time that I feel like you could be doing things that would get me to know myself

better yeah but it's that's what I'm wondering are the scales of that other stuff getting so heavy so like have they narrowed the algorithm so cleanly with the with everything the pornography it's taken away so many like it's frightening it's frightening that's what I wonder do you feel like there is a way for that is it just a cycle and there's a way out of that well the the possible optimistic scenario which I don't know will happen is uh that human beings have a Spirit um and that we'll get so disgusted with it that we'll

Rebel that a young generation will evolve probably not gen Z probably three or four generations from now that will find it so lifeless and and so you know sick sick but you know so unfruitful not giving them anything that they will Rebel and they will be angry and they'll say screw all this crap I don't I want to go back to something else I want to go back to Something in the past or whatever however far back or I want to create something new a real revolution of sorts a Consciousness Revolution that can happen because

human beings have that capacity and it's happened before in history where we've gone through these cycles of of kind of our our soul disappearing really and yes definitely and people kind of going crazy and moments of chaos yeah does one come to mind well I mean think of of the people that have succed come to things like Nazism or you know those kind of things where they're they're Mass hallucinations and being drugged yeah and uh the Germans now I mean however you might not like Germans I don't know I mean they're nice people i' I'm

fine with them I'm fine I don't know all of them but they're not like that anymore right so they emerged from that um that's a good point but um so kind of mass hallucination sort of thing but there were periods um I'm I'm going to get kind of wonky here but I believe it was the 3r century or 4th Century BC in Greece where they went through this incredible crisis where their belief their gods all that was disappearing people didn't believe in it anymore and there was a crisis you know human beings need to believe

in something need to believe in something larger than themselves and when they don't things can get really nasty and chaotic and soulless and I think that's sort of what we're going through right now that's kind of what I'm writing about in my new book book but I think people will find their way back to it it'll take young people who get disgusted with this kind of mechanical culture that we have yeah will that happen I don't know you know the the for these algorithms as you say are insanely powerful yeah it's like we're really up

against this dark this darkness that we've created which is kind of fascinating too you know it has a very much a story it's like all the stories you know it's like the it's like the perfect story you know it's like you create the Frankenstein you know it really is um when it when it comes to like individuality right what is a good way for people to start to get to know themselves does it make sense to you what I'm asking kind yeah it does well I keep coming back to something that I tell a lot

of people I think is very important is the desire to know yourself so people are very good at faking it and you could be out there and listening you go yeah I kind of want to know myself better okay let me get online and and get you know they just forget about it because the other forces are stronger than them you have to have a level you know that if you're in recovery a level of disgust you have to hit bottom yeah you have to go I don't want to be like this anymore I want

to find out who I am I want to touch that in core of individuality that I know is still within me that soul that I believe is still there you have to have the desire if there's no desire there if you're just mimicking if you're just saying it just for the sake of it because it sounds good I can't help you but if it's still there yeah you want to start by I mean there many the many paths you can take a very good path is to take a journal and start journaling right and writing

down your thoughts and writing down your dreams and when I say that I say don't do it on a computer I mean I know a lot of young people don't know to had a handw write anymore but pick up a p a pen I still handw write a lot of things pick up a pen and a journal and write it down dreams I know this sounds woo woo but it's not dreams are really powerful very interesting they're going to tell you a lot about yourself right it's going to tell you about those Journeys your brain

takes at night that are pretty Fantastical okay you write that down you you go back into your childhood and you go what was it that made me so different that was so weird about me what was it I was attracted to as you go through that process things will start coming up it's like you're digging you're Excavating like you're an archaeologist into your own past yeah it's like using a brush and brushing off and you see a little bit of bone and then you're like what other questions can I ask around here that might help

me remove a little more dirt yeah and memories will come up like your memory when you're 2 years old and your brother popping up his head things will start coming back to you and you'll start connecting to who you were when you were young and you're connecting to who you were as an adolescent adolescence is an an extremely important part of our life it really is almost the most formative part it's where we really made that turn into this or into that right and I find returning to your adolescence returning to those strong powerful emotions

that you felt those sexual things that were just so overwhelming yeah um those other things that you know that were happening returning to that because uh people psychologists have studied that is the period when you feel What Makes You Different the most right it's when you feel the most rebellious when you understand this is who I am I'm not like my parents you're 13 you're 14 all of a sudden you go I don't have to be like Mom or Dad in fact I want to be the H I want to be totally different adolescence is

like a really key thing to go deep into that will show you a lot about about your individuality about who you are and about who you've become so it's a process and it should be a exciting process right right you shouldn't look at yeah that's the thing if you look at it it's like oh [ __ ] I got to do this you know but to carve out a little time where you're like yeah let me think what were some things look at old photos and stuff like that really look at yourself a little bit

like a like you're studying something you know even listen to the music that you liked however embarrassing that might be yeah you know yeah would you listen to man remember the first song that you heard for I can't go I think I was four years old or so and my sister who's four years older than me had a a Beatles album yeah and it was uh I mean this is I'm older Abby Road no God no I'm almost so much older than that it was like Meet The Beatles and it was the song I saw

her standing there I think the single and I like wow this is so weird this is so different it's hard for people to imagine because the beel seem sort of cliched now but when that sound first came out I was like there is nothing like this out there it's amazing it's fantastic and I remember my grandmother was there and she go she couldn't understand it she thought it was awful and I thought it was the most amazing thing I think that was the first song I I can remember I can recall yeah yeah I remember

my mom used to play Brian Adams all the time and make us clean the house to it and then she would sometimes abuse us if we didn't clean up good but um Brian Adams wow yeah it was a bit it was kind of crazy but then um what else would we all oh I yeah I've told this story before but the first a a a camp counselor a woman picked me up and took me to Camp one day cuz my mom couldn't take me in summer camp and she reached over and put my seat belt

on me and it was like the first time that like a woman like other I guess than my mother had been near me oh wow and then she put on Bon Joy wow and I was like what is going on dude are we married like wow how old were you I was probably eight seven or eight and I'm sure I'd heard something before that but nothing that you know this moment that's that was the first song I remember hearing and being like yeah I want to hear that song again wow um but yeah I think

it was because there was a you know maybe because there was a woman there or something but that was something that I remembered what was it uh you know in a lot of your books you have The Art of Seduction you have um you have 48 Laws of Power you have Mastery uh you're always like looking at yourself and finding ways it seems like to encourage the most out of oneself yeah um how did that kind of begin for you like what was there like a period in your time where you're like I got like

I wasn't my best self or I'm not going to let this happen to me again like what was that trigger kind of for you well there were there were many triggers um so I was uh out of college I decided to go into journalism because I needed I needed to make a living I wanted to write but I had to support myself I was living in New York and you know I was very poor at the time I had a very low-level job and it wasn't connecting to me I felt like something was wrong I

didn't like the fact that you would write something and then the next day it' be on to something else it was totally forgotten it didn't last and I was into something CU I love history if it doesn't last more than 24 hours what's the point it should last like 12 years 20 100 years what you write should have some weight to it I felt wrong so I left it I wandered around Europe for about four or five years time sometimes with the backpack I worked in a hotel in Paris I did construction work in Greece

because I ran out of money I taught English in Barcelona I worked in a crappy television show in London I led a tour guide thing in Dublin Ireland trying to write novels and I was starving it's like a John Irving story it almost seems like it was it was like it's such a cliche I can't I was a cliche of the American great the young American trying to write a novel I had amazing experiences you know experiences that that seed all of my books but nothing happened and I was lonely and I was depressed and

I felt like something was wrong like what were you were you basing your achievement on something were you like were you what were what do you think you were looking for in that cuz it sounds like a searching kind of time well I was trying to write a novel but I couldn't write it oh it it wasn't happening my mind wasn't I don't think I would have been a good novelist because I'm too much into ideas and my novels were just like these kind of big kind of sticks with a big idea on it that

you were supposed to read about it didn't have life to I think I could do it now but something was wrong about it and um I couldn't earn a living off of it you know I I was on my own I had to earn a living I didn't want to be doing all these crap jobs my whole life so I came back to LA where I'm from my father wasn't well and I got a job in Hollywood thinking that's this is the golden path money writing glamour you know whatever would the dream fancy yeah cocaine

women all of that yeah and not it happened it was I wasn't it wasn't well I mean I had the will I had the cocaine and all that but I didn't have the success and all the other stuff but none of the none of the really stuff I was after and so to answer your question nothing was going right nothing was quite fitting right and I had a moment I was getting kind of desperate and my girlfriend was saying you know maybe you got to stop like trying to cut have it both ways where you

have you're writing your your creativity and then you have earning a living maybe you can't have both so she said I always wanted to write plays and theater and stuff so she said go ahead and do that and that was a kind of a turning point where I'm going to stop trying to just be this person that other people wanted me to be and I'm going to follow what excites me even though I can't make a living in it and that was a very important part meant like yeah I can I can do something that's

kind of fun and maybe it will turn into something well it's the same thing you talk about in Mastery too kind of that we were talking about earlier yeah and then so sometimes Fate has its weird ways of operating just as after I had done that writing the plays we put them on here in Los Angeles We performed them I acted in them she directed them we did all the all the work ourselves very strange plays right after that I met this man in Italy who offered me the chance to write a book and something

clicked in me going Robert all the bad choices in your life all the mistakes everything can turn on this moment right you can go from being this kind of loser in your one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica you could somehow turn this around a book wow I never thought of that before not a novel but a non-fiction book I see so you never really take you never consider that of course not if you're thinking of fiction you're thinking of like the you know the F Scot Fitz jail you're thinking of like a magnificent piece you know

on the road with carow you know you're thinking of something that's going to change the tide you know exactly but then you're like oh damn like a nerd book exactly but uh I'm I'm kind of a strange individual I have to say for better or worse cuz until I was 38 it was for the worst right and my parents were getting really worried about me but when I had the chance to write the 48 Laws power my first book I made it a book that you'll never that's not like anything else out there right I'm

sure something you've done in in your comedy there's nobody else out there like the oon you're just you're unique I made the book look weird feel weird nothing about it was was like anything else it was dark it was kind of like language was a little bit strong was controversial it even looks biblical almost this one that one yeah this copy the coolest thing is the face that's in this there's two faces oh one is one of them Benjamin Franklin one of them's you oh no wait one of them's Henry uh Henry um no it's

mavelli oh mavelli and me I was think was a guy from Black Flag you know that is Henry Henry Rollins yeah it looks like Henry Rollins a little bit you mean me or mavelli well unfortunately mavelli okay youed to look like you but you look handsome uh Henry Rollins is a lot more yeah I know he's a lot beefier than I am different more intimidating yeah maybe he's more intimidating is he still alive what happened to him I think he lives I believe actually that he lives in Tennessee yeah oh I've heard that I I

heard he moved to Nashville yeah I heard that he moved to Nashville I would love to meet him sometime some of my friends have worked with him I think he's a very interesting guy and there's melli now kind of I don't see a resemblance really there yeah oh maybe maybe the eyes yeah yeah maybe the eyes they each have two eyes thank you a good one thank you for trying to support me there Robert um took me a little while to hear the catch on it took me a while too I didn't I didn't realize

it was a joke until after I said uh but so then at that point that's you kind of like realizing something's different here there's this voice that says this could be something for you um you need to follow this and was it hard for you to to to like start to make that happen for yourself well um you know I as I said I was 38 years old I hadn't really amounted to anything and this guy yo elfers who's the producer of the book he offered me this chance he I I pitched to him what

turned out to be the 48 Laws of Power he got so excited so what happened was I went home to LA and I go Robert it was before 50 cent coin the expression but it's either Get Rich or Die try in here right you either make this book work or you're just going to be FL you know floundering the rest of your life right so I was so motivated I was so hungry and desperate and that this had to be it that I put everything I had into it and it's hard for me to understand

now because it took two years to write now it takes me five years to write a damn book damn all that research all the creating something that hadn't been out there before I don't know how I did it but all I I can say is there was something else inside of me that was so hungry that it made it happen so um there wasn't any like I can't do this kind of thing it was like if I don't do it that's it I have in my in my in one book in my book on strategy

and warfare this thing that I call death ground strategy it's a great expression it comes from sunsu and it's if your back is to the ocean or your back is against a mountain and you're fighting the enemy you're going to fight with 10 times the energy because it's either conquer them or you're going to die right so you put yourself on death ground you either succeed or terrible things will happen you find energy that you hadn't believed you had you'll find creativity that you hadn't believed you had did you lock yourself in a hole or

something did you like did you create that scenario for yourself did you change your habit CU to it seems like if have to really change your habits to produce something that well I had I had good work habits and I had learned how to research but one thing my girlfriend did was I had this cat MH who who just would never leave me alone oh yeah he was so attached to me MH and quite honestly he probably made it so I couldn't write a book so she created this table this very thin table that would

fit right in here on the on the chair I could put my laptop on he couldn't get on it oh wasn't it enough space for him no wow and that allowed me to write the book damn dude that's they say a cat also and I I don't I'll tell you because I know this but a cat will if you die a cat will start eating we'll probably start eating your face within like 48 hours that's very nice to hear thank you for sharing that you're welcome I'm not going to look at my cat the same

way now but I just want to let you know so don't be shocked that they would they want to stop you from writing a book okay okay okay he wanted to eat me I'm just saying they're playing a long game okay you know what I'm saying they want to ruin it all yeah yeah yeah so yeah they're just yeah you know they're just saving face you know by trying to get you to think that the by writing the book is the issue but that's so it's like but that's a that's such a that's that's almost

such a metaphor like I'm going to make a table that a cat can't get on and that way I'll be able to write my book we still have the table it's really cool looking she made it she painted it she made these like these like kind of back gam and signs on it it was really cool oh that's super cool yeah what a neat that's a that's a fascinating little piece of information um did you feel more powerful after the book well I couldn't have felt less powerful because I was I had no power really

up until then but um you don't know cuz like um a lot of things fail in life right oh yeah and the book could have been could have fled popped easily cuz it was so different and weird mhm and so I had no idea but then suddenly it starts selling well and I'm I'm getting you know the Press was pretty good and I remember in early 1999 I was invited to Italy for a a book tour and this was like the strangest moment of my life probably I don't know if you know what Disneyland they

have Mr Toad's Wild Ride where it's like he goes on this really weird adventure and it kind of blows your mind if you're like four years old this was like my Mr Toad's Wild Ride because suddenly I was invited to this conference where I was mingling with Italian politicians where Paparazzi were following me around and taking my photograph but who am I but this was the land of makavelli and they the the 48 Laws of Power seemed really great to them right so suddenly I'm starting to realize well maybe this book has legs maybe something

will happen then a couple years later in Playboy Magazine there's an interview with Jay-Z and Jay-Z quotes the 48 Laws of Power wow I was go wow it's like infiltrating that far that's pretty interesting and slowly slowly the hip-hop world more and more and more you know meeting 50 Cent people were coming to me for advice me that was always giving advice before I wrote the book but nobody would ever listened to me now they were coming to me for advice about their businesses etc etc wow I got um put on the uh Board of

Directors for the company American Apparel it was it was like being on asset it was so weird because I had had so little success before that if you have success when you're 23 it kind of spoils you and you think that this is what life should be like yeah I had so much loneliness I had so much not being able to pay bills I had so much frustration and depression that when it happened it was like man this is like I'm like on a drug it's fantastic yeah because the odds the odds of that are

slim they are very slim very slim the odds of that are slim I'm very grateful and did you feel like you had found Mastery though or do you just felt like you had found your calling did you feel like you just got fortunate did you write it sorry yeah that's the question and that's I think that's three questions well um you know there's luck involved in anything so meeting this man who produced The Book I was in Italy I could have not happened very easily we could have not taken the walk that we taken and

I would have never improvised the idea that came to me so you met a man and took a walk yeah in in Venice we were walking was a beautiful day I was in a good good mood and I pitched this book idea and I pitched other ideas which he didn't like but he liked that idea anyway that's a slender slender thread that the whole thing hangs upon right me going to Italy me this man also being there us taking this walk me being in a good mood me improvising it okay but yeah but it's just

as unique as going back to like how people are created how an idea how something magnificent happens how something unique happens that this had to happen your grandparents had to meet each other on a ship or somebody had to be a slave or somebody had to work at a Chick-fil-A or whatever it's like there's all these little things you know twists of Fate yeah just twists of Fate sorry go on so um you know if that hadn't happened uh there wouldn't be any book but on the other hand um I might have there's a some

feeling that I don't know if people out there can relate to but some way I had a feeling like it was meant to happen mhm that something about me or him Drew us together and that all of those bad experiences in life all of the really awful bosses that I had and I had some really bad ones right Roger too I had this guy Roger Roger what was he he was just he was a damn deviant dude he would uh make us work and he would sit in his Carl so don't smoke weed a lot

of the time but whatever where's Roger now that's a good question I know his wife left him I'm not sure okay but he you know he also was a he was he did lead our like company bowling team or whatever so that was like the one redeeming thing he did well that's that's that's pretty impressive it was nice of him to do so he bought us all jerseys and everything but anyway go on sorry I'm sorry well that's a great story um anyway uh so what other books what other books did you pitch him that

day you shouldn't ask that question they I I remember um so I really was into um Louis the 14th for whatever reason yeah I'm from Louisiana so oh okay we yeah there you go yeah Louisiana Purchase hey you know yeah that's what they say right exactly so uh I pitched an idea about how weird how different people were in the court of Louis the 14th like what their Psychology was but it was kind of related to the 48 Laws of Power but this other idea that I pitched was I had read this book about nonsense

and kind of it was called the philosophy of nonsense it's very kind of theoretical book but it was all about how nonsense could be actually kind of revolutionary to take words and to kind of make you think that there's a meaning but there's no meaning kind of excited me right yeah because it activates a part of your brain that's not a common path yeah yeah sort of like some of the things in Lewis Carol like in in Allison Wonderland right like you're falling through a hole in the ground and come up into a new univer

like world yeah like ridiculous walking into mirrors yeah yeah exactly change of perception exactly so I was pitching him an idea about about nonsense but it would be kind of a popular book that would sort of show you know how nonsense can be kind of a powerful force can be very poetic and exciting that idea didn't fly those those are the only ones I can remember yeah but hey that's what it takes man that's what it takes to get something that does fly yeah you know but um you know I think it was uh so

what I was saying because all the Horrible Bosses I had all the bad experiences I worked in a detective agency briefly here in Los Angeles actually in Pasadena for pi private for a firm what is pi private private investigator I wasn't I wasn't a dick I wasn't a gumo I was uh what's called a skip Tracer and it was one of the worst jobs I ever had where basically you know some guy in Wisconsin uh jumps bail MH or owes this company this amount of money I'm in a sitting in an office on the telephone

trying to find him that's what it literally means skip Trac you're tracing where he skipped a and they give you like these dialogues you're supposed to follow you call his mother up and you pretend to be a high school buddy of his you do some research you went to kosha high school and and you do a little research things you can say to kind of [ __ ] your way and I was very good at bullshitting and I would kind of do that she'd say oh he's he's you know she'd give you a clue yeah

then you would find him and then they would you know get the guy and they get him to pay I felt so awful yeah I was like helping the law by these poor suckers were kind of a yeah you weren't a snitch but you was like kind of yeah you was like a undercover kind of um guy on the phone yeah not a cop yeah and I had the worst boss there I hated that son of a [ __ ] anyway way all of those people went into the 48 Laws of Power I kind of

got my little digs into them because they sort of inspired some of these awful laws that I ended up creating yeah was some of the was some of the 48 Laws of Power written with like Vengeance was it written like yeah little bit I think you have to have something like that you have to have a fire you have to have Angry yeah were you angry at the world were you angry at circumstance do you think cuz I get angry a lot I try to think about what I'm angry at it's hard for me to

sometimes know what it is it is hard to know what it is what's like really underneath it because you can't be superficially angry but there's something else underneath that's gnawing at you I think I was angry at people's [ __ ] about people pretending to be something that they're not is what really angers me and what angered me about Hollywood I don't know your relationship to Hollywood I don't I hate Hollywood oh good thank you yeah well uh you know people pretending to be these liberal one wonderful people in favor of all the best causes

out there to create art what [ __ ] they wanted power they they loved having the power over people yeah right producers and directors love the power they had over actresses etc etc etc and so I had a law in there about get other people to do the work but always take the credit which is one of the nastier laws yeah that's what happened to me a lot of times in Hollywood I would do the work I would write all the dialogue Etc and some screenplay I wouldn't get any credit at all at all so

I was kind of like turning it around and telling people this is this is how the world Works people will get you to do things and they'll put their name on it kind of thing so so is some of it not as much with 48 Laws is not as much telling people to do these things but making people aware of things it's almost like making people aware of different clocks that tick in time but that aren't necessarily timekeeping clocks but just clocks of like how things work does that make any sense almost huh almost there's

something there thanks yeah started off think about it I feel like it started off good I'm gonna go to bed thinking about that there's something there or it's different like um yeah so it's not all how to do things as much as it some of them can be warnings or awareness well there's a law in there about um play on people's need to believe to create a cult like following and the idea is that there are a lot of Cults out there yeah there's a lot of Cults definitely 30 Seconds to Mars I think is

one what's that um it's a band I guess it's also like a GPS estimate I guess if you have a if you drive a space shuttle or something but excuse my ignorance yeah no it's uh no it's I'm just joking it's Jared Leto and his brother's band I'm just joking jar okay I am joking but people always say that it's a cult oh um but there's yeah there's a lot of different Cults out there yeah so I'm not telling you to go out and create a cult right although you could if you wanted to I'm

saying that you might be in a cult right now and here's how to recognize when you're in a cult these are the things that people do to kind of trap you into a cult they create like an Us Versus Them Dynamic while there's an enemy out there that's trying to destroy you better stay inside here where it's us and then they create like they use numbers a lot like this is the fifth level of the sixth domain that you have reached then you know brother you're in a cult that's here and that so it's not

so much like go out there and and create this cult but like maybe you're in one and here's how to recognize it yeah dude that's hilarious man especially now with the media it's like it's definitely become cult-like Behavior you know and with um their force over Society do who do you what do you think has more effect on us these days our government or our media like who's a bigger power Hollywood or the government well a Hollywood and and you're also saying like Tech the tech world like social media I'd say they have more power

I mean I don't know what the numbers would be I'd have to say like 70% and 30% would be the government yeah I mean um at this point though it's reaching a point where um the government and the media are kind of becoming one oh I'll tell you a so I'm at the mall the other day in Century City in Los Angeles right West Los Angeles kind of I'm in there a construction guy walks through he's like Theo what's up so I start talking to him and he's like dude guess what we're building I'm like

I don't know you know I thought maybe it could have been like a Hardies or something he's like we're building like a 20 story building and 10 floors of it are the CIA and the other 10 floors are a management company Hollywood management company that's pretty spot on right I was like you got to be kidding me he goes bro I wish I was joking with you he's like that is exactly who's going to be in the building yeah and CU because I was like who's going to be in the building he's like you're never

going to believe it I'm like wow I I used to be I might still be I don't think I am I was with CA when they were trying to make movies out of my books and you go to that building and they call it like the Death Star I I forget maybe that's the name of it and there are like you know politicians who are being represented by CAA athletes Tech Bros influencers right so that's where all of that kind of yeah there's the Death Star yeah cool looking building their building is awesome looking um

it's it's it's pretty frightening though when you go inside it's like all these people everyone's like wearing a suit yeah it's almost like um it's almost like Dione what's that called again umy scci it's almost like Scientology Scientology Hollywood's version of Scientology yeah anyway um thank you yeah that's a pretty building though um yeah so it's I it feels like there is a merging these days of the government and social media to me social media is definitely the power oh for sure that's what it's like that's all all the influence I mean the government couldn't

even keep the post office open you know I mean damn dude the post office is crazy dude you can go in there and just ask for mail and they'll give you some mail bro really yeah you don't even have to have any they're just like here here's some mail for you you know try that yeah it's gotten way they yeah they're um they really lowered the bar on like uh rules or whatever um but but the technology people um they've read all of the books on marketing on psychology you know Mark Zuckerberg they figured the

whole thing out yeah they know how to move us around like little puppets on a string you know so um yeah I wonder if we'll get to a point in uh I have to pee do you or not I have to pee like you do you go pee and then I'll pee after you okay but I wanted to ask you all do you think like Hollywood has like an agenda like that it's an organized agenda that they try and create through their art or do you think that's just like a conspiracy theory where people that

art just imitates life and that's just the way things are are you talking about the movie industry you're talking about tech you're talking about which aspect of it that's a good question you're talking about video games or I mean um I guess I would probably talk more about like the movie industry well there to me um for my being inside the belly of the Beast so to speak is it's really all about money I mean there's so much money involved and at stake that's really the motor that drives everything in Hollywood you know people may

pretend it's about creating art or supporting this cause or that cause but when you bring it all down it's about making money I'm sorry yeah you know and that's capitalism yeah that's what generates what they choose to make movies about so for a while it was all the franchise movies you know the mission Impossibles then it was all the Marvel movies because you know they need to they need to sell their products abroad if it sells in China they make a killing you know that's right if they can make one thing that sells to everybody

then it's like that's a super home run whereas if they make some one thing that sells like just to people in a certain region of America that's more of like a single or a bunt right so that's what generates their their you know their MO that's why they they make the things they make so you don't want too much dialogue because if it's like in India or China you know you have to do all the subtitles it doesn't work just a lot of action a lot of people beating each other up a lot of explosions

so it's it's money and then comes the art then comes well do we actually film that's how they think I'm I'm pretty damn sure of it yeah so I don't think there's like a consp iracy to like uh move a certain agenda although you know there is a kind of certain woke quality excuse me that I won't deny that that permeates it yeah right but it's more about you know they would drop the woke stuff tomorrow if they could make more money doing something else it's just about what's going to bring the Bucks and big

bucks because that's what Hollywood's all about and Hollywood needs proof so Hollywood feel like it's always a little behind the times in a lot of ways unless they do something Indie because they really need proof that something is going to bring in the money yeah so still they start to see like a swing in like ticket sales or streams or views then they are just um riding whatever the previous few years were well it used to be 30 40 years ago when there was independent film that you could have somebody like a Jim jarmush you

know so who was it huh Jim jarmush who was it um bring him up yeah bring up Jim jarmo please he was a really interesting film director he might have been from the south in like the 80s and 90s let's bring him up yeah Jimmy jarm Mo baby hey um but the F huh you that movie with Tom weights that I really like I haven't seen that down by law huh Down By Law Down By Law thank you yeah um thanks Zach for saying that down by law put that on the list of things to

watch too yeah it's a really interesting movie Tom weights is the only time I've ever seen him act yeah are you a Tom weights fan um no okay well that's all right i't oh wait uh [ __ ] Creek was that him no that's somebody else that's the band that's the band yeah oh the weight I'm thinking of that's also the band that's the band oh Tom weights bring him up decent guy oh he's fantastic do I know him oh wait Tom weights dud dude yeah dude I know Tom weights yeah yeah I'm a fan

of him dude I freaking know him oh yeah show me another picture of him yeah wow he used to play I think with my buddy Josh Kelly uhhuh Tom weights dude what's up Tom he's one of my heroes from like uh I loved his music is he dead oh he didn't know he's Jewish whoa he lives in California now no he's still oh thank God um I'll text him then um yeah please say hello um that's cool dude yeah I went and I think he performed on a show with my buddy Josh with a musician

friend of mine one time he's he's amazing he's amazing yeah with Josh Kelly um that's cool man uh so um anyway so back in the day you'd have these like weird independent filmmakers like even Jonathan Demi or Jim jarmush and and they would create something weird and different then it would start a trend people would start doing Independent films like that you know kind of uh right you know even films in black and white etc etc um and uh but now you know you can't make a movie for a million dollars or half a million

dollars like you could back then now you need at least 1020 million to even begin to think about making a movie well to make a big movie to make any movie you think so yeah because the costs have just gone way way up like just to even think CU because um my wife she she's a independent filmmaker right and uh she used to make her own films that she would kind of raise the funds with she could shoot a film for a million dollars it's not possible now anymore so yeah I mean I think you

probably at least probably have to have maybe $5 million or something at least okay at least that I'll agree on you and and they won't they fund it right they're not going to fund yeah it's definitely hard we've been trying to get a movie made for a while and I David Spade and I wrote a movie and it's not a super expensive film and it's been a nightmare and so that's why sometimes it's like I wonder well it's like do they just not like us is that why like William Morris won't help us make this

thing you know like why wouldn't you know like you know I don't know I don't want to get Petty in it I'm I don't feel Petty but it's like why wouldn't they invest in it you know well what what happen is if you made your $5 million movie with David Spade it could very well set a trend it could very well make $80 million and be huge but they don't want to take the risk they're so scared their balls are so scrunched up in a little you know they've got and they're just so afraid and

timid that they only want to do what they know is a slam dug where they can make a lot of money because their lives are on the line it's such a precarious world now Hollywood it's not doing very well they're in kind of a crisis stage right now because of streaming because it's so competitive yeah it's really hard to make money so they're not willing to take risks you know and this is a problem that's happening in America in all Fields the the the amount of Risk Takers now is shrinking shrinking shrinking because people are

are are so afraid ah see that's and that in a way is also taking away our individuality because if we don't take risks if there's not enough space to take a risk or someone isn't brave enough or willing or is able to make it happen it's not always bravery a lot of people they just it's not feasible um based on their life and it's okay if that they can't take a risk but you need those people you know you do need those people you need those people for things to to change to start a new

curve um yeah that's really interesting man thinking about what you just said a second ago I had a um a friend of mine is a publicist and he was saying the other day he's like man Hollywood's just nobody's making a lot of things you know like like last year uh I think um Sony pictures only made like 12 movies last year really you know that's crazy I think this year there's they're on slate to make like 20 or 25 a lot of that had to do with the strike right oh that's a good point too

but to think that like probably 10 years ago they probably made a hundred movies you know um and if you can bring up any numbers on that that'd be great if you see anything let me know um but yeah he uh that well one of the problems also I think with Hollywood is you have like uh nepotism is is is Alive and Well in America overall so I think you get I don't know if this is true but I feel like you get people that are just now it's the children of people it's their sons

the creativity the guy moving from you know debuk Iowa with a great idea isn't coming here anymore and bring because they're giving that job to somebody's kid it's all and you start to lose yeah creativity because the creativity isn't going to come there after a while because it doesn't it's not uh nurtured yeah yeah you know I mean there is a possibility there is some hope that it's so cheap to make a movie with your iPhone right that the means of making a movie could be you could go out there if you're some 20-year-old kid

and you have a really interesting weird idea and you just go ahead and make it oh totally that could you could create a trend but the problem is a lot of people a lot of people um are afraid to even make that step you know they want they want they want to make the money first you know sometimes I tell people it's okay to do something for free it's okay to take a job where you're getting paid very little but if you learn a a valuable skill if you actually make something that that gets a

lot of attention the money will come in MH but a lot of people are so afraid of making that step right so if you're like a young person you have an idea for film don't sit there and wait and try and get William Morris and get all the other crap online it never happen you know just go out and make it on your own for $10,000 yeah and something could happen right but so you're saying right there then you can make a movie for $10,000 but you can't make like a it's a different looking movie

yeah but you could get a lot of attention for and you could maybe start a trend and you could create something so weird and stylistic that that reflects you 100% a pro of concept yeah and that other people will not want to imitate there just needs to be more of that and the same thing's happening to the music industry as well right now yeah you know yeah you're F yeah well I think music it's it's an easier barrier to entry probably because it is cheaper maybe to create you know you need an instrument you know

cuz then you have to pay editing but maybe not not really these days you can learn everything online I just wonder if we're H if we're less creative or more creative than ever or maybe we're the same as we've always been uh well being an old guy I'd have to say less creative but that's maybe just a misperception that comes with age where you think everything was so much better back in the day right I think that's sometimes I think that's possible but I also think the imagination isn't used as much because there's so much

why I can be like okay right now could I think of something to entertain myself or to keep me busy or to see where my thoughts take me or can I open up Tik Tok and just see something that's definitely going to be entertaining yeah yeah you know so I think our imagination is started to and I don't even know how you would measure that but I think our imagination has started to uh become like the appendix or something you know in the body we don't even know what it was for uh back in the

day George Carlin had a had a routine you you know George Carlin oh yeah about out uh when he was a kid he would just pick up a stick and he would play with it and he would create all these amazing games with just a stick that he found on the road yeah he'd sit there and poke it and look at the animals and then he would invent this that and the other and he was like boning how nobody can take a stick anymore and and imagine something with it you know he had a much

funnier way than I'm saying it right now believe me trust me but the idea was that you know when you were a kid you you know I remember remember we we created something when I was a kid I was about 8 years old 9 years old it's called dirt Village M and what it is is we created a whole town in dirt on this hill that near where my friend lived and we created houses Etc and then we had Wars we took all our army men and then we would like blast their city and destroy

it but they had created like Bridges and lakes and all this stuff it was like wonderful you know kind of thing making your own world yeah yeah yeah yeah well I think doing things like that was so interesting doing like being creative um but one thing that always creates imagination in people is love I feel like that's something that like you know um always like the risk of the siren in the distance you know always was the that was a big factor for me I think yeah yeah yeah that always like sparked my imagination whether

I was writing girl of poetry or making a uh a collage doing something you know trying to create romance or something or figuring out how to seduce her and how to strategize and where to take her and what would impress her and all that other stuff yeah yeah and I mean I don't even think I guess I didn't think of it it's weird because you think of it I guess seduction isn't just sexual is it oh okay so yeah because I would think about like yeah what could I go do that's nice with my girl

what would be what would make her care about me what would make me show her that I care about her I loved that stuff when I was young yeah me too you know yeah I mean uh I think um online porn is definitely degraded those skills oh it's ruined so much I'm amazed that we allow it I mean you used to be uh like if you wanted to meet you're feeling lonely you'd go to a party or a bar or something you had it took some guts you had to like get out out of your

house you had to take the risk of somebody saying no you know and you you were kind of afraid and timid yeah you're kind of trembling and then maybe you had a few beers and things went a little bit better but it took like a skill that you had to develop a people skill but if everything is so quick and instant you're you're you're afraid so many young men are afraid of women they get in their early 20s they don't know how to approach them yeah because they've never had to approach them they've never had

to deal with the fact that somebody could reject them because it's just right there you have to deal with it never rejected so then no interaction so then this yeah this weird feeling of weird fear I had a ton I was definitely too much pornography too much really yeah my 20s dude bad news dude jerking my yeah just jerking my body off or just looking at porno this is in the earlier days of porn this was yeah 15 years ago 13 years ago or whatever yeah how much long ago was it yeah it just was

bad man I would yeah well sometimes I would even set a date up and then instead of going on the date I would end up looking at some pornography and then just cancel the date all right like why am I going to go on this cuz I think probably some of it was nerves I didn't want had to go but then also it was like I you just found a loophole to make yourself feel sexually gratified but the long-term effects of that miserable man because then then I started thinking anytime I was like engaging in

sexual activity I would think of it in almost like camera shots or something you know what I'm saying like it was all like um and I didn't even realize it but it wasn't like in a moment it was just like I'd almost be just watching um um yeah like it it wasn't I wasn't in the moment even the way I saw it was I'd seen it so many times this way that I couldn't break the pattern wow that's really scary had no idea yeah it was wor it was tough man ruined yeah ruined um some

relationships that I was in no and I'm not trying to be self-pity I'm just saying yeah that I was a certainly not even a victim of it I can I did it you know and I wish that it hadn't been there cuz I do miss the days when I would just lay at home and just scream like where are all the chicks you know and just jerk off that way instead of at least like yeah looking at the screen or whatever but and then their bodies could never measure up to what what you saw yeah

the lighting is never it's all it's never the same it's never the same so then next time a girl comes over to your place you have 700 watt bulbs in the ceiling she's like what the hell's going on but dude there was nothing that's what Drew you out into the world as a man the fantasy even going to Europe or whatever what if I meet a someone on the corner smoking a cigarette oh man I remember when I worked in this hotel in Paris I was 21 it was the hotel where all of the models

would stay wow dude oh my God it was I went hide under a bed it was like paradise you know I Dy God of heaven and there was this guy who kept showing up at the hotel his name was Eduardo he was this tall Brazilian man mhm this is kind of Where The Art of Seduction came from I would watch this guy he was so smooth he had every skill in the book wow he was so relaxed that when women were around him they just melted right and so I was thinking what is this power

that this guy has yeah he was he was pretty good-looking he wasn't the most handsome person in the world but he had some kind of skill that he had developed and you know he had crafted it coming to this hotel partially you know because he had seduce so many of the models staying there but I was saying what is it about him and I was kind of fascinated by him and I became friends with him briefly and I realized it was his confidence his calmness there was nothing defensive about him and the fact of him

being so undefensible made him incredibly Charming to women what is UND defensive mean he's not insecure yeah he's not thinking about him himself he's not in the moment with the woman going what do I need to say to impress her he's not there at all he's like so on there on them inside their mind so relaxed and not thinking about himself that's that's what I mean Eduardo Eduardo where is he now God um probably with some chick probably well he's now he's going to be in his 60s or 70s that ain't stopping him dude I'll

tell you that Maybe not maybe not gosh yeah I think seeing somebody be like oh I was always shocked when a guy was good with the girls I was like who is this wizard yeah who is this damn wizard yeah and there were people like that they had they had something about them and it wasn't just looks no dude I yeah I mean it was not it's just a comfortability uh sometimes there moments I would get into that state where I would be Fearless with women very rarely but um it's gotten better as I've gotten

older but yeah when I was young it was so hard just to like even look at a girl and talk at the same time I [ __ ] I don't even know I feel like my legs were just going to climb right into my butt I just was so scared well we've all been there yeah um is that what propelled you out into Europe were you a ladies man growing up I had a period my 20s were a bit like that yeah and then they then I kind of grew out of it for whatever reason

um what do you mean grew out of it it got tiring oh just chasing women kind of yeah and it felt like um it felt like something you know like it's okay when you're in your 20s you're young you look good you've got energy you got Spirit you start getting into your 30s you start getting into your 40s and it seems kind of pathetic yeah it doesn't seem that's how my my maybe if you're MC Jagger it's not pathetic but for me it's felt like H it doesn't feel right anymore but when I was in

my 20s I'm not saying I was I wasn't on the level of Eduardo no way man but you know the interest was there I was aspiring to be in his League let's put it that way and were you Brave with women like were you brave enough to go talk to him and stuff cuz part of that is learning just the the art like learning even being in the dance like I never even put myself in the dance so many times I'm like dude you got to at least get on the get in the interaction moment

you know well the key to me that I learned um and maybe it's just me is that if you're really interested in her if you're really excited by her if it's not just about sex but there's something about her that excites you it'll bring something out of you that you that that you didn't think was in you right it will bring energy out of you it will make you they will feel that your excitement and your interest they'll see that it's not mechanical that's not just about sex that you're genuinely interested in them that will

relax them which in turn will relax you back and forth back and forth so if you choose somebody that you genuinely are feel a connection to and it's also sexual it'll have this kind of reverberating effect where you will bring out your n i i remember sometimes I be funnier than I've ever been in my whole life I'd be Wittier I'd be an actor I'd be saying all kinds of weird things and you know they brought it out of me but then other women know nothing at all like that I'd be nervous it didn't happen

but that kind of magic happens when it's like a real a real connection when there's purpose there yeah it's kind of like even what we're saying earlier about purpose showing up how does it that it shows up yeah that there's something there if you can navigate it that that a moment there's something there's some energy there that shows up that connects you to your purpose yeah it's very similar to the energy that shows up to connect you to a woman in a way I would say yeah or someone of the opposite sex yeah um did

they outlaw sorry The Art of Seduction in prison I hope so right right that's hilarious dude I wouldn't want that book in prison I wouldn't feel very good about my myself sorry sorry sorry I meant to say I heard they outlawed the 48 Laws of Power in prison is that they might have outlawed artist seduction I don't know um yes they did Outlaw the 48 Laws of Power in in in a lot of Prisons well they picked the wrong book I'll say that now just picking back on your joke earlier um why why they don't

want people having power in there well um Robert greens 48 Laws of Power is second most banned book in prisons D you know the you know what the most banned book is um is it an obvious one or not oh I know what it is um hold on I know exactly what it is dude it do yes I do brother I know exactly what it is it is um uh sank Redemption no no way it's a recipe book book about how to cook rawen I kid you not prison Ramen the most commonly banned title on

the list what there you go thank you why the 48 Laws of Power is also one I'm the girl with the lower back Tac too The Art of War and kubal lib yeah prison Ramen don't ask me why what is yeah why is prison Ramen let's get the answer um why is your book banned in there well uh because ostensibly it's because it's about manipulation and they're worried that people are going to use it in prison to manipulate other prisoners but really it's not really about that really it's about prison is uh and I have

a lot of feedback from prisoners I I don't have a record I've never been in prison so I can say that but I have a lot of sympathy for people in prison I understand that you know if not for the grace of God I could be I could be in that situation for sure there's a side of me there's a slight criminal side to my psyche I have to admit yeah so I understand that and um prison is about power it's about making you feel it's about dividing the prisoners amongst themselves so they don't get

together and and see what's really going on it's about controlling what they read controlling what they see controlling every aspect of their life what they eat etc etc etc and it's a book about gaining some of that control back and they're very much afraid of it and I've had prisoners tell me about that like you know the games that wardens play on prisoners and guards play are really powerful and really manipulative very psychological and they said that the book kind of helped them see through that I have a woman who's in prison in Texas who

um she had gotten the book from her um I think husband or boyfriend and I I think she ended up committing a crime against him something like that but she realized how he was using the book against her and the book opened up her mind and she's in prison in Texas they will not let her see it so she has a kind of memorize she remembered the chapters wow but they're afraid of somebody getting a hold of that and learning about how the system operates how other people oper what the guards are up to etc

etc wow I think it's about that more than anything else did that make you feel pretty cool yeah I feel I feel kind of bad about it um it's kind of cool yeah I guess I don't know why but it's kind of cool because it's like uh you're banned here Robert don't you come around here buddy there's something about that you know but what if I ended up in prison didn't have to ban me because it's all in here I can tell everybody all the laws you know that'd be a good movie I love that

huh let's go let's go to uh W to William Morrison's pitch that sure in 10 years we'll get it made um what uh what were some books you read that helped shape your worldview or things you like to read and growing up I was a big John Irving guy world according to guard Prayer for Owen meanie Hotel New Hampshire some of my favorite books um Confederacy of donces that's a great book dude that's a great book isn't it yeah that's a great a wicked book book Robert oul I think something UL yeah what did you

like um well I I was into some heavy stuff but I also really like vaget kind of stuff well like philosophy like n like makavelli but I was also very much into um Carlos costena you don't know car C but write him down so we can get one of his books well Carlos C was really big in the 60s and 70s kind of the hippie generation o um and he writes a lot about p p peyote Etc his book journey to exit laon that one on second from the the top that had a big influence

on me okay he uh Carlos K was a professor of anthropology at UCLA and some people think he made it up but he went to Mexico and he met a kind of a Kur andero a kind of a a witch doctor type person named Don Juan who had magical powers but who ate a lot of peyote and took all of these Journeys and he taught him about the world and I swear to God that book had so much impact on me that a lot of the things in the 48 Laws of Power actually come from

that book wow there are ideas in there that are so amazing and practical and wonderful for a 16-year-old it was one of the most wonderful books I have ever I really really love that um and that's where you know I like a separate reality they're all great yeah um wow that's cool no I want to order that will you make sure to order that too Zach um and uh you know uh who else I also a writer named Herman Hess German writer who WR books like sedara yeah and uh Damian which were really kind quite

radical I like things that were a little subverse and radical and weird Like Clockwork Orange that kind of stuff yeah Anthony Burgess he was a great Rider sure yeah that was always one of the crazier things that like when you were a kid only like the weird kids knew about Clockwork Orange when I was growing up yeah yeah yeah like the jocks and stuff didn't know about it no but like the weirdo kids who would sometimes take a little sip of gasoline knew about it you did sips of gasoline not a lot wow think of

the damage that did to you yeah I can't even think about I think it killed off the cells I would have used to think about it well when I was in college there's this Englishman this is when we were doing a lot of drugs um and he said he started telling us about something he did when he was a kid called lady Esquire shoe polish and basically you take this shoe polish and you would put it in a rag then you would sniff it yeah and your brain would go crazy for like a minute then

you felt deathly sick but for that minute you were like whoa and all he had to do was like a125 shoe polish and he said God you know we he got so excited that we went searching for it and we found a bottle of it in B in San Francisco and we did and we sniffed it and it was the most awful thing I've ever experienced in my life it was like way too intense like everything was like it was just awful dude it's equivalent of gasoline yeah there you go that's your gasoline we used

to do everything like we heard about like cooking banana peels or always rumors that would go through town of things you could do to get high NM and so we we we smoked everything in my buddy Jeff's kitchen um we uh I remember one time we had um oh one time I took a bag of mushrooms to a party and people had never taken them there and so gave them to everybody and then I was like we're going to play hide and go seek right you guys go hide and I'm an account right I'm account

to like 700 and they all went and hid and I never went and found them and then I went home you imagine that did they know you were giving them psychedelic mushrooms dude [ __ ] them that's how I felt about it let's that's a pretty good trick yeah that's what it was basically like Chris they're prob they're probably still waiting for you dude somebody there's some guy in the closet still wondering where you are oh there was things like that I loved like I remember we went camping one time with a with a boy

scouts or something and I told everybody the day we left that Jay Leno had died right so all weekend everybody this is before the internet and everybody's like God you hear people talking about it so I would just lay in my tent and I would hear dads telling each other you know you hear that Jay Leno passed away and I would be howling in there like laughing at a like it was coming out of the like the core of the earth through me there was always I love that element of um creating a scenario that

nobody knows if it was real or not you can't do that anymore though right cuz the internet killed everything did you can't lie you used to be able to tell a woman you were a lawyer and she's like you're 11 and I'll be like I object don't be such a [ __ ] man I'm trying to meet a cool chick you're right it did ruin everything can't lie anymore um your new book siren is that what it's called I've heard you talk about it a couple times Sirens Sirens no what what's that about I don't

know I thought it was a new book that you were working on there was one like about police sirens or no about like the women in the distance no that's that's in The Art of Seduction okay that's in The Art of Seduction you talking about Sirens um what was the there was some new book I heard you talking about WR a book on the sublime the sublime sorry that was it it's a SW word it's close enough that's what happened to me yeah um uh yeah it's [Music] uh in the in the 50th law that

book I did with 50 Cent the last chapter is about confronting your mortality because 50 you know he nearly died he got shot nine times close range gosh and he had like a near-death experience so the last chapter is sort of about I call it the sublime um and then in the my last book the laws of human nature the last book the last chapter was about confronting your mortality and when you do that all the amazing little things that will happen happen to your brain and your mind and how it will make life seem

that much more intense that was also what I called the sublime and then about three months after I wrote that chapter I came this close to dying myself with a stroke which you can see the results of oh wow that's so that's why you have this uh some physical ill illness yeah it's I had a stroke damn dude so uh you know I was driving here in LA and my wife is in the car and she basically Saved My Life um could you feel it as it came on yeah uh I didn't I didn't recognize

it I was like something weirds going on and she noticed it right away like the whole side of my face was like elongated and and weird and wrong she knew right away she forced me to pull over I'm going what what what and then I started to get out of the car and she came around and I don't remember anything else wow so you know there was some sounds that were a little bit weird and I was kind of acting like nothing was going on like it was all just a joke but deep down I

I knew something was was very very wrong dang anyway so that was almost a near-death experience thing kind of very very close you know uh because if I had been alone which I often have happened it's just luck that she was with me even if I was driving because most of the time I I'd be alone I'd be dead right now or I'd have such bad brain damage it wouldn't be worth living so I'm very lucky but um you know uh it it was like I had written about it and now I lived it and

so the subblime is about experiences a lot of them related to some of those drug experiences yeah that make you realize that there is another level another almost Dimension to life itself that you're not aware of so your mind can either shrink and it'll shrink with your your phone to the confines of your stupid little phone and all the you know what people are eating for breakfast what where they're taking their vacations Etc this gets smaller and smaller and smaller your your circle of thinking gets narrower and narrower and narrower or it can expand and

it can expand further and further books can do it drugs can do it I'm trying to make this book something that will will do that will make you think about what it means to be in in a universe where there's we're alive what it me a book a chapter about your childhood and how Sublime your childhood was about the human brain and how weird it is about animals and our connection to animals about love and how love can be a Sublime experience about a relationship to the past and history I'm doing a chapter now about

what I call the dayon which is a sense of like there's a second self inside of you that's kind of guiding you it has to do with what we're talking about purpose is to get you out of your the small thinking and get you into thinking that there's something very weird about being alive in the world and being a human being who's conscious so that's the book that I'm writing wow that's fascinating do you think God put conscious in a s do you think we're just an anomaly well we now know that animals have Consciousness

that animals think so we're kind of knocked off our high how long have we known huh how long have we known that well you can't know for sure because we can't get inside of them but people who study this very seriously who study what is consciousness who study Neuroscience who study animals very deeply yeah they're convinced that animals have Consciousness and they have incredible proof for it and even even like bees and spiders so I have a chapter about animals in the new book yeah spiders actually think spiders are amazing the powers that they have

and then I knew it octopus octopuses water spiders are the most amazing animal on the planet so this guy wrote a book called alien no it's an anthology called aliens it's all about alien life and one of the chapters in there is by a neuroscientist really good neur amazing neuroscientist named Anil Seth an Englishman he wrote a chapter on octopuses and he said if there's an alien Consciousness that's different from ours in the UN it could be like the octopuses because octopuses have thinking have brain neurons in their arms they have like 12 different centers

of Consciousness yeah so they're thinking with their whole body so animals are conscious and it's interesting we only have five senses that's not that many yeah there there are other senses out there that we don't have like snakes can pick up the heat they have a sense of heat there's a name for it where they could pick up the heat from a from a mammal in the area to to attack and eat it um birds have a sense of electromagnetic waves in in in in the environment to navigate by you know there are other senses

like that spiders have a sense where they can pick up rhythms in the W or elephants have senses in their feet that pick up the vibrations from the ground so um I'm blowing your mind there's just a lot out there yeah so there's a lot that's we're not so special as we might think right and it's and and it is amazing to Marvel at ourselves in positive ways in fact we should do it more you know I um I I'm sometimes amazed how few times I look up at the sky or up at the gods

the universe that created me and even just let it see my face like the universe created me and here I am all the time just down here you know like just to out there and be like thank you you know or here I am you know don't what you know or even ask the universe for information like yeah it's like here's the freaking universe and I'm down here trying to read a book dude the but you got you know I don't know if that works or anything but it's like if I look up like this

I feel like something's I feel a little different well you can do that tonight yeah I'll get out there tonight Robert okay um so many thought-provoking I'm going to say that's who you are oh thank you and I think that's one of the most unique things that somebody can be and thank you for charting so much of it for us thank you so we can go back through your thoughts and um and explore our own thank you well I really enjoyed it it's great Robert Green love to uh get to chat with you again sometime

dude or SID or if I come across any peyote I'm not going to say it out loud oh yeah yeah please but I will come watch you do it all right well um yeah you won't have I'll do the peye myself you can watch me cool dude I'll be right there with you man okay yeah when my next book comes out definitely would definitely yeah I would love to the sublime I want to know about it if I get any neat ideas or things that I think are Sublime I'll I'll send them your way that

would be great I'd love it not the Jazz it was kind of a insane thing to say to you um Robert Green thank you so much man thank you so much for having me with you I really enjoyed it yeah me too bud now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these Le I must be Cornerstone oh but when I reach that ground I'll share this piece of my life found I can feel it in my bones but it's going