2 MILLION Monthly Listeners With Facebook Ads feat. Jend

Nico if you only had one minute to give artists your best advice for how they can run their ads to promote their music on platforms like Spotify what would you say one minute on the clock all right so my advice would be pretty similar to what it was last time um I would say the most important thing is finding a system where you can produce and release and promote music in a very cons consistent way so that you enjoy the process of doing it and actually give each of your tracks the potential it deserves and

if you do this consistently you'll start building momentum and you'll start learning from first of the music production but also in the music marketing of what works and what doesn't and yeah after a while you'll see success and you know where to go to keep growing it um yeah specifically for me if I can continue going um yeah it has used a lot of meta ads because that's how I've been able to keep um things consistent because for me relying on Tik Tok or Instagram reals sometimes works but mostly doesn't and I don't want to

depend on an algorithm like that to to promote my song solely obviously there's a lot of benefits to social media and that it's free and you can just post content and get traction but it's pretty much impossible to guarantee virality or not even virality just any sort of success yeah I mean it's already so hard to go viral to to get a video actually like blowing up and then to get that video to actually like promote your music and not just be a random video that doesn't go anywhere is even harder and then doing this

with each of your release or then your album like further down is personally for me impossible some people are able to pull it off but I feel like you have to actually be really good with editing videos being consistent and being disciplined about it and also about the editing and knowing how to caption your your videos and yeah be very creative with it over and over and over again and have the discipline to keep this going for a few months then then that's how it works it's really like uploading three videos and then your your

song is being promoted um by the algorithm and yeah I just with a lot of artists that I've worked with and a lot of friends and me personally like for me it drains so much energy and time out of the whole process so yeah if you can do both like the the performance ads as well as the organic the ideal case like if you can do that like you're in the best hands um it's just yeah I kept hearing it every o over and over again is just just post content post content post content and

like it's not bad advice but solely that I think in most cases is GNA exhaust you and kind of burn you out before you get anywhere in a lot of cases yeah I think unless you want to be a content creator as well as a music artist you're you're probably going a lot of artists have trouble handling the volume and the quality and the creativity you need to create content because it just takes a ton of time and and you know for everyone who doesn't know Nico jend here um you you have almost three million

monthly listeners right now so you've been quite successful at promoting your music you got 2.7 million monthly listeners right now I think you peaked at like couple months ago or something which was crazy I had one song blow up and like all good things in life it had to come to an end but yeah yeah still still very very blessed about having so many people listen to my music it's incredible I never thought it would go this far um which is why I'm doing this because like I feel like so much music out there and

so many artists could be so much bigger but mainly like have their music heard and give their music better life um and yeah what I do I don't feel like it's rocket science um it's just takes a little bit of a learning curve to get around and once you have it I think I can recommend it to to every artist out there well today we're going to get more specific because we we've done an interview before and in that we talked a lot about Concepts and and just music industry General tactics but we didn't show

anything super like specific we didn't dive into your ads manager we didn't talk about the exact audiences youve you've tried what types of video you've you've done exactly um we're going to do that because I I got the comments from the last video pulled up and I got some notes and uh I think the best way to start is um let's just show people how you do what you do with your ads since that's the the bulk of it um for sure so I guess without further Ado uh the floor is is yours for a

little bit let's do it let's do it all right um so I'll sum it up first in words and then I'll share my screen and I can show you a few case studies of first of all tracks of mine and also some some tracks in of my clients from my agency because yeah I also read the comments and a lot of people are wondering if that only works for house music um which is not the case and I want to prove that um so yeah basically boiled down what I do is I focus on my

ad creatives which are multiple clips multiple videos instead of just testing one ad because I've seen the biggest difference like from the performance coming from using different clips like much more than actually interest while I test those as well it's yeah I usually try between eight 15 at this point now I try maybe sometimes 25 different creatives for a release and yeah the the way I edit them they're not it's really also not hard I'm not great at video editing um what I do is I use clips from my either my camera roll for my

party that I go to to or from me filming outside the train window or something like that and I mix it with some clips I found on pixels or art grid is also a great website arade is paid but pixel is free um to find some high quality footage it can literally just be like a drone shot over the mountains or something that somewhat fits The Vibes of of the track um and I just put the the lyrics over it and then on the drop or when the drums hidden or something I add the cover

Ard with the title and out now I'll show you in an example but that's basically it and like that I just have to edit one version of it and I just duplicate it 20 times or 10 times depending on the budget um and just replace the clip it's literally all my ads are usually just one one clip um you can of course try different angles and it doesn't have to be like that but that's just like what's worked for me and it's been an easy way to do this every month for all my releases um

sweet and yeah and then I use those to promote on meta ads and basically just place these ads on Instagram reals stories and the feed and yeah what I do is I pretty like I invest into these tracks pretty front loaded so if I would have a, EUR budget I would put a third of that literally into day one so I can test out all different creators and all different um Target interests and basically find the best combination of both as soon as possible while also giving Spotify as much data as possible in the first

day or two or like in the first week because from my experience that's what's really um caused the in like the the algorithmic playlist to kick in later on it's like the more attention your song gets in the beginning and the more data Spotify gets of who saves your track how many times it gets saved to what playlist it gets added um next to which songs it gets played to um the more it's the more knowledge it has to then push you out in radio and discover weekly stuff the the following weeks and months um

nice but yeah that's basically how I promote my singles I also promote my playlists um in a very similar way the only thing is it's not like a release day where it's so important to get so many saves in the first two days or something um but yeah I just test out a lot of different creatives with the playlist I try out a few different songs um people do ask me if using other people's song is okay in theory that's not allowed um so what you should do always is you should message artists um do

it with smaller artists that are just gaining starting to gain traction because they will respond and for any artist it's like a win-win really because you're promoting their song for free so they'll most people will will be happy to to allow you to use it for that yeah I've got a lot of people ask me like hey I have this hip-hop playlist and I don't actually make hip-hop music I just want to start have adding a hip-hop playlist to my catalog of playlists and know can I use a Drake song can I use a Kendra

Kamar song can I use a whoever um and my answer is typically like pretty sure that legally no you can't use their song in an ad because you don't have their permission however two you will almost definitively get away with it so do with that what you will essentially like I I know so many artists labels and stuff who just say screw it and they use whatever songs they want it's just you definitely doing that at your own risk because if that you know Universal music group or something gets wind of it they might they

might just tell you to take it down or they might sue you so you want to you def you never know with the rec labels you gota yeah be careful me in the they're only benefiting from it so as you said I think in most cases you will they will let you slide with it but I will not advise people to do it because it is against policies yeah it'd be much better to hit up hit up someone like you or or one of the artists on your like someone who's someone who's not as huge

on a major label like someone you can contact directly and get permission from and someone also that understands the value of it like especially if you're let's say someone hit you up and they're like I want to use your song in an ad um and I'm going to have your song first first in the playlist from your perspective you're just getting a whole bunch of promotion for free so yeah exactly I would say hell yeah please come be I guess yeah for honestly for the most part me too I mean like as long as it's

it's just promoting a Spotify playlist and my songs in the ad and my songs in the playlist it's like I think that's a win-win for everyone now from your from your ads where do you recommend people send send people so you you you use a landing page so people can your and page and they go to sptify but from when they CLI to go to sptify do you s them to your artist profile directly to the track or to directly to the track I'll go I'll I go on the track go um share track link

copy that link and I put that into my landing page um which can be tonen or you just told me submit link H submit Hub has a link now um yeah yeah and there there multiple different options so far I've used ton then but yeah we just as we just talk later I might be switching um yeah yeah a lot of uh a lot of people watching this probably have World War II flashbacks from when ton Den went down last year yeah hit me as well I saw like some something's off it took me like

two days to realize and check into the ads manager and I see everything is at zero conversion nothing's tracking nothing's happening what's going on yeah it was like a doomsday scenario I I I know someone that never noticed it and they left threads running for like six months and they they burned like three grand sending traffic to a dead landing page just because ton never told anyone um so that was that was definitely a bummer Yeahs big time yeah now on a on a song like um you know looking at your catalog you have I'm

I'm I'm guessing in the dark was the song that went crazy good just because it's got million streams and it's you know it's probably on track at 100 Mil eventually I don't know what the back end looks like but you know so let's not look at that one well unless you want to or you have it pulled up but up a few songs yeah yeah it' be great to know like for something like just like a more typical track Like Yours Like sun is Sun is dark or feel the vibe or often or any of

those what kind of budget do you put into something like that and and what did the breakdown look like yeah I mean nowadays I'm very blessed to be able to put um much higher budgets in there um now I put in between one and 4,000 into my tracks um sweet yeah but I started with two 300 bucks I think going much lower kind of limits you and how much you can test um still possible too but yeah I like a good range is between 400 and 1,000 bucks I think um yeah and especially in the

beginning I would say start with a smaller budget because you're still learning things and like things do go wrong like something putting in the wrong link or having the placements wrong or forgetting to narrow down your interest by Spotify or something and then like I've seen a bunch of little mistakes happen here and there so I would say if it's the first time you're doing it start with a smaller budget so you kind of get used to it and get the hang of it but yeah yeah well for the most part for like the last

not this year but because this year I only released like two tracks because in the dark was doing so well but the years before I was releasing every four to six months uh four to six weeks and yeah there I spent around a, Euro between 600 and ,000 Euro on my releases even even four grand which is you know the the top end of what you mentioned you typically spend now that's not a crazy budget I mean do obviously it's a lot of money um like you can buy a a shitty car but you can

buy a car for that amount of money right like my first car I think cost $2500 I mean granted this was in 2010 or something but um you know it's it's not a crazy amount of money in the grand scheme of of Music um like I've run $25,000 ad campaigns for songs yeah the budgets especially for labels can get very large very quick so with something like in the dark was that a 4K or it started with being a 3K 4K but then just on day one already I saw that the ads were performing so

well like I was getting ads at 8 cents seven cents per conversion so I'm like okay let me put some more money towards it and then I as always I C it down to like 30 bucks a day um and let me share my screen actually so I can show you yeah yeah I'd love to see it yeah yeah um and then we'll continue from there so it already started being like one of the best releases I've ever had like for me getting 11 16,000 streams in the first two days was already like wow like

that that hasn't happened before um and yeah it really did well in the first two three weeks first month it was normal and then I was able to put it into discovery mode and literally a month after I released it it just went pretty much crazy and went skyrocketing and then if you look at it like this it's basically here where it happened grew and it grew but like still slowly in that scale like you can see went from 36 to 39,000 which at the moment still felt like absolutely crazy um but yeah here I

just literally kept it running at 30 bucks a day because I was like okay it's worth promoting it's still growing and I would say what three months four months after it just kind of went crazy all algorithmic like it didn't get added to one editorial playlist is wasn't really played in the radio there was no one real or Tik Tok that went viral um there were people using the song but yeah no nowhere no video that got like 10 million views or something this all right yeah all this and then it hit the peak was

October around last time when we talked and yeah it has been going down but I think that's a normal thing yeah every song of eventually goes down it's just a still nothing to complain about you know it's still getting still getting over 100,000 day which you know for reference like a kind of average country country distribution I would expect that's like 300 bucks a day right 100,000 a day is about 300 bucks a day depends on the country also the fact you're you're in discovery mode you know so spotify's taking their 30% cut on radio

streams and all that but you see things 100K a day is is pretty damn amazing oh it's mostly us Australia like Germany super high like in the grand like high paying country just like the US same with Australia same with you know UK and France and Canada Netherlands Brazil and Mexico pay you know like half third but still um but these are very important countries because the meta ads are much cheaper to Target to there and most of my ads in the beginning which I'll show you later um I'm targeting at tier two in the

beginning of the release so I can get more data cheaper quicker and I've I personally think and I've heard it there's nothing I can prove but that growing in these countries and being big there then gets you promoted into radio and discover weekly in the US and yeah stuff like that because most my ads don't Lear land in the in the states like most of my ads actually get seen in these countries but then when Al kicks in it kicks in like globally same yeah when most of my ad spend goes to Brazil and Mexico

but my my number one country for all my music projects is the us because once you get pushed out and discover weekly in radio it doesn't matter what country's triggered it if they push you out wherever they think your people will be and for whatever reason for me it's mostly been the US I've had the occasional song pop off in like Germany or Australia or something but I don't know if they're like oh you're artist therefore pushing to the US or it's just maybe there's more fans of my style of music in the US I

think that's what it is I think first Spotify has to understand who your your audience is like what other artists they listen to um and yeah what other songs they listen to and once it kind of figures that out it then looks for people in like other markets like the states and stuff that kind of fit that yeah yeah sense yeah so this this song I can't even show playlist it's almost everything coming from Radio yeah um so do you recommend to most people to use Discovery book obvious obviously it's it's a little bit of

a controversial tool a lot of people hate it and there is kind of the poola aspect of it but what's what's your take on it um so I get why people don't like it I think it's a very backhanded move from Spotify to to artists like us because basically from how I see it is that they had the algorithm before already it's just now in my opinion and from what I've seen songs that aren't in discovery mode almost get pushed out like n and yeah and they're taking 30% of the of the streams that they're

boosting you with but that's kind of what it was before already um but yeah it is what it is and at the moment I would tell everyone who has it to use it because literally only the songs that I have in there actually get pushed out in the algorithm every other song No matter how many streams you got before or stuff basically like just went downhill once the Discover Mode was added and I didn't include the songs in there um I know an artist that was hovering around uh 200,000 monthly listeners for several months around

the time Spotify discovery mode is being rolled out and they were like you know this thing like I'm not giving them because radio was the biggest biggest the reason they they they normally would float around a 100 but then they were up near two and they're like I'm not going to give Spotify 30% of like the bulk of my streams so they didn't do it and then over the course of six months they fell dramatically in radio like the radio basically vanished yeah and um So eventually they opted in and they that put them up

to like 120,000 monthly listeners or something but it's like they kind of got screwed over kind of bad by the whole Arrangement and it's overall I tell people the same thing like if you have it use it um because it they'll push out your songs further and if you don't they're not gonna push you out as hard if at all yeah and I think generally like the goal should always be to grow your music to get new listeners to discover yeah what you do and for me radio is the number one Discovery tool for out

there because it's really and it goes hand inand with with the ads because like how was explaining the the ads basically provide good data to Spotify much better than if my song just gets pushed in playlist or something where people skip it or don't save it as much um and every stream that I get through my ads let's say I pay 20 cents for one stream it's not like I'm paying for just that one stream because first of all that person who actively clicked on the ad and saved the song is going to listen to

it more times but also them listening to the song multiple times then triggers the algorithm or the radio playlist to then showed to 20 or 30 other people similar to that listener and yeah it can really become an exponential thing as you can see within the dark um and I can show you other songs where this happened too as well I'll admit as well that this does not work with each track like I have plenty of tracks that that just don't go bananas like that but it's yeah it's doing it over and over again I

mean this was the sun is dark track which for the first month I thought was doing pretty horribly because here it was three artists it was me um paku and nosy two friends of mine and we thought this song had great potential so we all put budget in you know so I think on this one we spent 6,000 and or I don't know between 4 and 6,000 at first we thought the budget was and yeah it just wasn't performing at all as we turned off the ads it also went down pretty drastically and as of

this moment we haven't had any ads launched anymore like I think here something we return up the ads completely that okay yeah if you click on the the saves view I find that's kind of a nice way to to visualize what um what happens with ad spend because like your saves are typically directly proportional to your to new people coming which basically your ad so you can see your your super high spend on day one and then you can kind of see how the speed at which you ramp it down and so by you know

June 16th your your ads are down super low or off entirely by then yeah um but still even though this even though even listener uh the safes don't go up that much the streams have been going up and up now and which is again almost everything thanks to radio um yeah it's it did you find and maybe you you didn't maybe you weren't doing stuff back back in the day when this was a thing but did you do you find that over the last like couple years uh there's been a flip from discover weekly being

the dominant playlist to radio being the dominant playlist that's what I found yeah 100% I think discover Discovery uh discover weekly is out I I feel like Spotify is slowly discontinuing it um because it's not doing anything anymore in comparison every so often I'll see an artist that's still crushes discovered weekly and certain songs but like most people I see now radio's King of the castle it seems like it makes sense From spotify's perspective because they can justify taking 30% from discovery mode in radio but not discover weekly yeah um so it is it is

what it is but yeah similar thing like for me it's always like it Peaks sometimes when I'm lucky it actually goes up within the first week but usually it just Peaks and goes down um and then within the next month it just turns goes down as I turn off my ads and after a month four weeks or something I turn of all my campaigns put it into Discovery um discovery mode and that's when it then takes a life for itself or basically let it do its thing and live yeah if the ads are performing really

well I'll still keep it running maybe at $5 or um something a day just to keep on promoting the track but um usually not and I used to not do that at all um let me show you a track maybe that didn't do so well do you um oh yeah that would be cool to see so so you're not a fan of um just leaving your ads running like you you're pretty quick to kill like get him into discovery mode turn him off or if anything keep him on just a couple bucks a day like

you don't like leave it running for like 50 bucks a day for months on end to try to keep pushing it harder you so a lot of people ask uh you know how do I know when to turn off my ads like do I turn it off when I get in the algorithm or do I double down when I get in the algorithm no I would say you start turning it off once you hit the algorithm because you've paid you've done the the work of giving the song life and giving Spotify knowledge once you get

into the algorithm you then kind of let it do it let it do its thing um because that's how Spotify gets its own data um like here example again like as you can see didn't do that well was on 10,000 7 I mean only at this point back then it would have been a great campaign but yeah me and and paku released this song together we also pretty quick realize okay it's been a month and now it's gets 3,000 songs I think we should probably cut our budget here and keep it for our next track

um and yeah actually it's not doing horribly like it's still doing better now without spending anything than we did in the beginning yeah but it doesn't have that crazy growth yet maybe I can show another song to get done just so people kind of understand that uh oops this was released a while ago so it's it's on a big downtrend because it's much older than a year already but yeah it's this is where you'll make your money back from your campaigns it's not in the first week it's not in the first month where your money

starts coming back um because yeah some people are like hey I just spent 1,000 bucks and I got 50,000 streams or 20 or 100,000 streams or whatever like that doesn't seem like a good return on my investment but it's the months after like the three months six months 12 months after where you're accumulating streams from the algorithm is where you then break even and then turn into a profit eventually yeah a lot of artists uh I don't think you have to profit off your streaming and I think Mo like a lot of artists they don't

assume they will their their approach is like I I I can't book shows if I don't have fans I can't sell patreon memberships if I don't have fans I can't sell merch if I don't have fan so Spotify is just the place where they find fans Not Just Spotify but all streaming and so like let's say they run a campaign for you know or they spend $10,000 in ads over like a year and over that year they recoup five then maybe the next year they recoup two and like lifetime they recoup 75% of their so

still a loss but if they've gained you know 15,000 fans who listen to the music regularly and and like of those 1% come to shows like that's still a lot of people who are now coming to shows and and once you factoring that Revenue it's like that for a lot of artists the the live and the patreon and the merch is where their actual money comes in so the streaming for them as a lost leader for you though it's it's your bread and butter like you actually make a living off the streams yeah which I

think a big part comes into not me not being signed to record label or a distributor I keep 100% of all my royalties and all my masters which makes it easier and I'm a producer who's by himself it's a different thing if you're a big band but as you said it's the streams and especially the Spotify algorithm that has the power to to get your music out there and for new people to discover music and yeah it's once you grow there and with the ads you also simultaneously grow your Instagram um you kind of build

a platform for yourself for which you can then sell merch or sell tickets or do whatever you want to do um and it's yeah as I said it's like a long-term game it's really like I wouldn't even say one year is enough it took me personally two and a half years almost three years until I was like making money that was like able to put food on the table like um but I was also doing a bunch of things wrong in the beginning um my roommate or at the time paku it took him a year

to break even um and yeah it might take people longer it t may take people um faster I like that you mentioned you you don't spend the same on every release like if it's going bad you pull it so that you save that money for the next one because uh a lot of artists spend the same budget for every Rel releas but let's say one of your songs is getting 80 cents a conversion and then the next one's getting 20 yeah one is essentially four times cheaper per listener per dollar so your money is going

to go four times further um and so what what I do is for for my own music is if a song's going badly I might spend $200 on it before I give up usually not that low but it depends how bad it's doing I guess and then on the clip side if a song is doing amazing I might drop four grand on it and it's like I'll kind of think up at the start of the year I'm going to allocate $1,000 per song but it's like the losers get 200 300 ad spend and I'm saving

you know 700 a song the winners two three grand you know and and out of 10 songs I I personally assume that of out of 10 songs I release that two of them will probably be amazing performance-wise two of them will probably be awful and the other six will be somewhere in the middle you know just yeah this one has been doing extremely well like it's actually one of my best releases so far so I might actually hopefully beat in the dark in the future so far it looks like it's on the trajectory too so

that's awesome yeah it's doing really well and for that the ads pretty much let me put the 30th of February until [Music] now so yeah oh you're getting 15 cents of conversion in tier one only yeah and these tier ones which are it's also pretty surprising um but yeah I spent just that you know is we we put this on two ads account so right now it probably spent around 3,000 not 2,000 pacu also has some ads running got just for clarification um but is he's doing the exact same thing as here with just a

few different creatives so he has to get some promotion his in account um but yeah if I go into one of these add that's a good amount of ads it's a good amount of ads I mean how much did I have here I think had eight or nine look like was 14 to oh no never mind yeah I have eight or nine and then paku also has the other eight or nine so in to wait wait so the way you're setting this up actually is interesting um so you're using ad set budget optimization and then

these are all ad set labed as ads so they all basically are just targeting fans of electronic music and you're you're doing that so you can uniformly spend like five per day on each video exactly exactly so to clarify that's a big big thing that people get confused on and this is really my strategy um is I don't have the CBO campaigns it's the budget is set on the adset level I put them at 5 a day unless I don't have that much budget and a lot of creatives then I would go down to four

but nothing lower than that and I also wouldn't do anything higher than that to be honest gotcha like I would keep it at that rate and then each ad set here has a different creative in it I mean there ignore that it says ignore that it says number one here please this is just my bad organization if you're doing this yourself you should actually write add eight here and then add six which is a sorry if you click on at six yeah it's a different video each other my different videos and after after a while

I mean I tested out I now have a few more running but the majority of them I have turned off and I realized now that number six and clip eight are the best ones sometimes add one and the the copies here just means that I took down a few more countries to make it more tailored to what I want people to listen to like uh I think here in the copies I took out some more countries to make it more tier one but yeah if I go into one here you have the creative level um

which I think theen as I said it's just one clip oh um I'm assuming in the final video it's up toow oh here we go yeah the final video is probably going to be perfectly sync but for me it's uh so now I see the creative okay yeah so as you can see the creative is just one clip that I took out of a club um I put the lyrics over it and then I drop my coverart and this is the same thing that I've been doing with all my releases since four years um and

then all I do here is I put the song title with an out now an emoji you don't have to copy me but you're free to I won't be mad um yeah I put my landing page here make sure my pixel is actually connected oh maybe we can blur this number do we need to uh you don't need to we can if you want but uh yeah pixel anyone can technically go to any website and see the pixel on okay well then so if someone wanted to see your pixel they could just go to ad

library look up J beats find all your ads see your landing pages find your pixel so it's it's public anyways all right okay so okay no need to um and yeah so let's click on a different ad ignore that it says add one here I was just lazy um with the naming but you see this is just the slight a different clip here in this you also tweaking part of the song too or are you only changing the video clip I actually only choose one part of the song unless I am really confident in the

song um or I don't have that many creatives then I could try out two different parts or like if I'm really not sure which part would do better but in my experience it's always like you want to start the ad right with the best part of the vocal of your track if your track does not have a vocal um then you want to put it like right before the most energetic thing that like it's um not like right on the energetic part because then people like kind of skip over it quicker I think but to

something that builds up to it yeah uh when do you actually test different interests and I actually I mean I can see them right here it looks like the way you do it is you you do different campaigns for different interests exactly so once I do one campaign let's say I campaign one I create one on day like the day before the release one through eight add creatives I would have eight adsets here in each adset I have one add creative each adset here has the same Target interest it's always um it's always the genre

or whatever interest I'm I'm targeting Nar by Spotify so all I do then is I duplicate this entire campaign and while everything is duplicate um while everything is selected here all I would have to do here is let's say I do this into deep house I already created it but let's say I wanted to change it to deep house I click here at the top so I can automatically select them all at once and all I have to do here is click depos knck that one out I only test one interest um so I can

see why what performs well if you put more of them together then you might not figure out which ones um works the best and then for your future releases you might not be as informed as if you do it like that and yeah now just hit publish and like that I I duplicate every single ad creative um into a new campaign where now the interest is changed every so often I love people ask me you know what is your CPM for your different ads and you what is this other obscure metric or what's your watch

time and the answer is basically just like you I don't care I look at cost per result and results and amount spent for the most part unless something really weird happening like my clickthrough rate's really low in the landing page so I'm investigating Facebook to see why or something but for the most part I I don't worry about it I also ignore pretty much every other metric um the other thing that's important to look at is um tonen or like tonen is what I use but the click through rate on there um sometimes I have

clients and stuff that do things wrong and then they get like a 30 or 40% clickthrough rate on their landing page which also sucks because then you're basically dividing your performance and what you're paying for and and to have um yeah well what kind of um what kind of clickthrough rate do you find is acceptable acceptable is over 70% usually I'll I want it to be between 80 and 85% but it's usually more between 70 um 75 and or 7 between 70 and 85 is where I would like it to be um I would show

my toen but I'm just checking it out right now I have all of our clients's um yeah yeah that's that's all of our clients's stuff on there so I can't show it but I can tell you that it's all between 70 and 85% uh where should the people come find you and what do you want to plug for them to go check out sure um so yeah as as Android is said I have a blueprint it's called The Independent artist blueprint where um I basically just put everything in there in terms of meta ads in

terms of being consistent with music and all the other little things that I do put it all there and made it as easy to read as possible um and with that we started in the penion which we now have a community and we have a productivity planner as well that kind of helps you actually stay on track of all the things you um give yourself out to do and your image and we're trying to build as many tools as possible to make it as easy as possible for Independent Artists to to grow their music and

to make a living from it so the website is independent.com you can check it out either online or on Instagram cool man thanks for coming on that's what was fun thank you Andrew really appreciate it as always love love talking about Facebook ads it's not that many people that understand it and I feel like your your audience is the best one in the entire world um terms of promoting music um so really really appreciate you having me on here again