Princeton Scientist PROVES Magic is REAL! This Changes EVERYTHING! | Dr. Dean Radin Ph.D

we are in the midst of a re-enchantment of the world everyone has some kind of skill whether they know it or not in this domain magic is real for the magic to work you have to believe that it's going to work there's some form of deep interconnectedness among all things that's simply part of the fabric of reality it transcends space and time the fact that we're aware is a very deep mystery it's still not solved there's tons of data saying that these psychic effects really are real Galileo like others are very well aware that anything

having to do with magic is okay with in the church but it is not okay outside it's demonic there's danger in anything especially when we're dealing with getting a better sense of who and what you are what you might be capable of you can get pulled into a bad place pretty quickly you just end up going completely psychotic you go crazy you don't gain power without having something challenging yourself black magic is considered to be overriding somebody else's free will if you don't have the permission to do it you're asking for trouble the point of

Enchantment magic is that you're instantiating a desire an intention you're taking it out of your mind and putting it out into the world the easiest practice that kind of attracts people now is I proposed uh as part of my work to start looking at the mind machine interaction as a as an actual thing like if somebody was very anxious the machine seems to fail and a lot of people are familiar with this for something as simple as uh I really really need to get a photocopy copy right now and somehow that's the time when I

press the button on the photocopy machine that it breaks well enough people are familiar with with this that I figured okay there's there's like a face validity to the idea that if you're really anxious that the machine is not going to obey you very well so I spent some time as part of my business travel to visit the various Laboratories in the United States where they were doing mind matter interaction studies and spoke to the researchers and one of them very kindly loaned to me one of the devices they were using for testing my matter

interaction and so I brought it back to the labs and I was using myself as a subject and my colleagues and I convinced myself after a while there really is a direct mind matter interaction that you can get you can measure with a machine and so this became relevant because now was saying that well maybe the this folklore that develops about people interacting with machines it's actually a real thing it's not it's not some mundane explanation but there's something about human anxiety or human intention that will cause a machine to break and so that got

me really interested so I went to I went to a conference I presented this and later was uh invited by people working on at the time a classified program in the in the United States that was using psychic phenomena for Espionage uh today it's known as the Stargate program it was uh it was a program for 20 years using remote viewing which is the same as Clairvoyance as a way of getting information that would be useful for Espionage so there were rumors at the time that maybe something like this was happening but there were rumors

well now I learned that it was an actually real a real thing and so spent a year on that program as a visiting scientist and that completely blew my mind because it was no longer seeing that like my seeing that I could see these results in the lab but finding that this was taken very very seriously at the highest levels of government because it was useful not just a like a minor minor anomalous glitch that you could find scientifically but actually pragmatically useful so I determined that that point that if it was possible to continue

a career as a scientist to try to understand these phenomena and look into them in detail that that's what I wanted to do so I somehow figured out a way of doing that that's what I've been doing for 40 years now so what is the connection to Magic the connection is I I've I've written a number of books and the first one was all about the nature of the data and how we know that these are real effects the second one was about the physics underneath it why why it doesn't violate anything that we know

about physics the third was about the yoga traditions and how within classical yoga that these phenomena known as the cities in yogic terms are very real and and have been known for thousands of years the fourth book called real magic was then looking at the same thing from the point of view of Western esotericism because yoga is like Eastern esotericism so this was now looking at from the Western and I it suddenly realized or occurred to me that what we would call the cities and from a West from an Eastern perspective we call Magic in

the west so that was the connection and I I'm sad to say that up until that time I don't think I would have ever mentioned the word magic and psychic phenomena in the same breath because it seems like they're really far apart but actually they are identical than cities magic and and psychic effects are all exactly the same thing just shaped by language and culture so that that's why I got into magic because I realized I've been kind of doing studies on Magic without thinking of it in those terms for a very long time so

that was a long-winded answer no it's perfect I think it's thank you so much for describing it because I think it elucidates such Clarity on just like the like the the the nature of how it's it's hidden in plain it in some ways um you research three different types of magical practice mainly is what I've gathered um and each of them actually has like a scientific counterpart to it as well right so the three classes I call enchantment which we would call mind matter interaction uh the second is divination which which would be Clairvoyance and

the third is theor which is a a a mashup of of words in Latin and Greek that basically say God work or Divine work and that that is referring to the area of survival evidence things like mediumship so it's true that each one of these three major classes have some subclasses within them but all of them have been studied within parapsychology mostly in laboratory studies so we know that all of them have an actual empirical basis to them all of them are real what we see in the laboratory is quite weak in terms of the

magnitude unless you're very lucky and you happen to have a very talented person that you're working with but for most average people the the effects are pretty weak but real can you describe some of the more fascinating experiments um across each of these different fields that you've experienced witness come across so let's take an example of of divination so uh one form of divination is precognition and there are several different classes there there's conscious precognition which is somewhat rare there's also unconscious precognition which occurs in dreams and it occurs as a result that you can

feel something in your body that is giving you a clue about something that is about to unfold so the typical example there is that you you've driven to work a million times and using the same road and you know that there's a certain place where you're driving where you have a stoplight traffic light and so you're approaching the traffic like this day and you get a a feeling a bad feeling about that particular traffic light maybe you even get that early in the morning you start thinking about it and thinking there's something wrong with that

so you're approaching it and the light is green and so you would normally start speeding up a little bit to make sure you get through the intersection but today something is wrong so you start slowing down and the closer and closer you get to the green light the more you slow down which is confusing people behind you because they don't know what's going on and so when you actually approach the intersection you're almost stopped at that point and suddenly out of apparently nowhere a truck barrels through their red light and through the intersection and would

have hit you broadside if you had not been slowing down so I call this a presentiment because it's not precognized it's not knowing what's about to happen it's feeling it somehow something is you just have a feeling something's not right so there are many many variations on this story so one that that gave me an idea of how to do an experiment was that uh I was I working with a colleague who liked to go hunting so on the weekend like he was preparing the next weekend to go hunting uh with his buddies and they

have rifles and they have pistols and he has a a six shot double-action revolver that he takes so he's cleaning the whole thing he takes all the bullets out uh and he cleans it all up and now he's putting the bullets back into the cylinders it even though it's a six- shot revolver uh he put only puts five bullets in there so the hammer will be over the empty chamber so he's putting in bullets one two 3 four and then he picks up the fifth bullet and he gets that bad feeling something about that bullet

is not right so he sets it aside so now you have two empty chambers you have the the hammer over six and you have the empty one over five a double action revolver you pull it and the it pulls the hammer back it rotates the cylinder and then it hits on the next CH chamber which is empty now so they all go hunting uh and and with his friends and then they come back after a day of hunting and they do what you should not do if you have a bunch of guns around they start

drinking so a fight breaks out between two of his buddies and he sees that one of them picks up his revolver and pointing it directly in the face of the of another guy that he's been arguing with and he's pulling the trigger well you can see what's about to happen here this is not good so he intervenes he steps between the two but too late the hammer had been all the way pulled back and went rather than bang shooting him in the face click into the fifth chamber which is with the bullet that he had

taken out so he he said he felt at that moment that something about that moment of horror because he didn't even remember that he took the bullet out it saved his life because if that bullet was in there it would have killed him so so how do we simulate this in a laboratory without putting people in actual danger we sit somebody down in front of a computer we wire them up to look at their heart rate and their skin conductance and other unconscious physiological measures and then uh they they press a button and the screen

is blank for 5 seconds and then a picture comes up to the very emotional or very calm and then that saves for 3 seconds and then it goes away for 30 seconds and then they get a chance to do this again they might do 30 or 40 of these trials each time the picture is selected from a large pool of pictures that may be calm or emotional and more importantly the the selection process is done after that 5-second waiting period so there's no picture yet it's selected by using a true random process right before it's

shown so it it really is in the future at that point and the hypothesis is that if there's some element of your unconscious that can feel what is about to happen well maybe your heart rate would speed up or maybe your skin conductance would change because you're sweating a little bit more so we did that experiment and it worked amazingly well we used like really Calm pictures really emotional pictures but it worked really really well so my colleagues started to replicate it and as that was now about 20 years ago so we have something like

four dozen replications of this experiment for multiple labs around the world and it's very clear that this is a real effect which kind of makes sense I mean all of our experiments are based on what people report in the real world not just once but often times many times so we can see this now in the laboratory and we can exclude all of the the mundane explanations like maybe it was peripheral vision or you heard something or all of those things can be excluded so this is an example then of how we know that that

aspect of divination this is in in a case of your body telling you something which is why you should pay attention to gut feelings you know something funny in your viscera or in your heartbeat if you can feel that take that as a clue that's it's telling you something so that's an example of an experiment in divination uh and there are many others as well I mean there in each one of these classes there's probably half a dozen different experiments which are useful because you can then uh say well if it's true say in my

unconscious is is it also true in my conscious when I'm conscious like I'm making decisions well it turns out yes is it also true in brain activity yes you know you can go through the sequence and continually get confirmations by looking at the same phenomena in different ways and that gives you more and more confidence that it's a real thing and so as again I just mentioned one experiment because it's it has a dramatic story associated with it but it could have settle a whole bunch of others yeah it's interesting I also it's I think

everyone can relate to those few moments that we have where we kind of just that gut feeling where something's kind of off and you just don't know why and then later down the track it kind of turns into like Ah that's why that happened like your mate story especially with the gun is kind of is is quite quite the harrowing one of the things I wanted to just double click on for just a sec there is um you talk about um precognition but then you use the word pre sentiment and I couldn't help but notice

that um yeah because cognition sounds very in the mind but sentiment is feels more like a felt sense um and I think it's interesting because when I lean into even like I do some work with uh I'm not sure if you ever heard of Dr Jose Sila and um his his work towards leading people through developing like an intuitive sense and stuff like that and one of his one of his trainings is very like developing the visual Acumen for one person to be able to visualize and it never really worked that well for me but

I could really have a felt sense in my body of what I was trying to visualize and so I just sort of started running with that but I think everybody has a I don't know I'd love to get your thoughts having researched this do you think different people have different like dominant almost internal senses does that make sense the question that I'm asking oh yeah well people are different uh it's like the rule number one when you're learning about psychology yeah there's a lot of O overlap and similarities which is why we're able to talk

to each other and sort of know what's going on with somebody else but people are fundamentally different we have we have different talents and different predilections different personalities different bodies different genetics fortunately they're similar enough that that we can get along but when you get down to Brass tax especially for something that could be considered a subtle form of perception or subtle form of of in internal Consciousness there's quite a range uh of abilities and and preferences so it is not surprising at all that some people could be extremely good at divination and not good

at at enchantment at all and vice versa and there are people who are really really good at uh gaining information from what it seems to be entities that are no longer living or not or maybe we never human so that's I'm talking here about the this the third category of theery so in my case for example uh I i' have never encountered anything that I would consider to be a spirit or even any form of survival evidence but they have friends who do like mediums who see dead people constantly everywhere which I think would be

dis disturbing but somehow they they deal with it um so yeah so I'm not I'm not surprised that uh that people will have different talents and different abilities with these these kinds of not really exceptional abilities because everyone has something everyone has some kind of skill whether they know it or not in this domain and I think that it is not only humans that had these abilities but it's any form of sentience so probably all the way down to bacteria there there what we think of as Consciousness in plants or in animals and so on

be would probably be quite different than what we think of as as our selfawareness but they have some kind of awareness and I think then that the the experiences that we're talking about whether it's in terms of magic or psychic uh it's simply part of the fabric of reality it's not something that is Anointed upon somebody the talent might be but the the phenomenon itself is suggesting that there's some form of deep interconnectedness among all things that's simply part of the fabric of reality and that it transcends what we think of as space and time

so by when I say deep interconnectedness I'm talking about transcending space and time because that's that's the essence of psychic and mystical experience and it also plays an important role within magical practice y inspired so this conversation with Dean is so interesting about magic and the place in the world and we're going to dive even deeper about how you can start to wield some really cool practical ways to weave some of this stuff into your own life just before we get there I want to take a quick moment to thank all of you that are

subscribe to the channel we've recently hit 100,000 subscribers thank you so much for your incredible love and support everything you see around here is powered and empowered by your subscription to the channel now to all of you that are watching a second third fourth video man thank you so much and if you haven't yet subscribed please do take a moment the Bell notification icon the Subscribe button it's just below so hit the Subscribe button hit that Bell notification icon and it just yeah it had help so much with everything we're doing championing love positivity and

wisdom around the world thank you so much in advance for your blessings without too much further Ado back to Dean it's really interesting cuz you've been in this space for well over 30 years over almost 40 it's you've probably watched people's receptivity to well you know I'm sure now we're having conversations like this podcasts like this Consciousness is a common conversation um or becoming more and more common I should say um but rewinding back 30 years ago I'm imagining it probably wasn't um as open a conversation as we're having Heroes on today's podcast um have

you noticed yeah have you noticed a shift in Consciousness that's that that's been going on um to to to put it a bit broad brush as a as a conversation but then also is that making more and more of these abilities come online for people because just like we discussed I think the reason I asked the question previously was to just I think some people might be switch like turned off because they're expecting it a certain to to look and behave a certain ways as because they see the stereotypical kind of Hollywood like oh yeah

I saw something and precognized it and yet you know it might not be show up that way specifically for them and as you're watching Consciousness evolve are more and more extra sensory abilities coming online in your opinion is there a correlation between the two I believe there is yes uh it is it is partially that the as you were mentioning that 30 years ago there were very few conferences on consciousness of any type uh there were philosophers interested in Consciousness there always have been the Mind Body Issue um but most scientists would have had no

interest in Consciousness at all with the one exception being anesthesiologists because their job is to turn it off other than that neuroscientists had no interest psychologists had no interest and the other more hard disciplines so-called hard disciplines they had no interest at all like it wasn't even part of the discipline and that so they' never even think about it and even among the lay public uh the idea that there was something that could be studied was also quite foreign I remember talking to an uncle many many years ago and saying that this was I was

about to go to Princeton University to to study Consciousness and he didn't it took him a while to figure out what I meant like I'm not a philosopher I'm a scientist so I well what do you what do you mean that you're studying Consciousness what does it even mean well it I had to actually struggle at the time to figure out how to describe to him that this was actually a thing like the fact that we're aware is a very deep mystery it's still not solved we don't know how that is so so this has

been it's really dramatically changed in the last 30 years so now like every single month there's at least one conscious one conference that is focused on Consciousness on some aspect of one or the other that it's almost overwhelming now because people will say oh are you going to this the science and Consciousness conference and my response that was well what are what are you talking about which one I mean literally everywhere I just got back from it well I mean now that the mo most of the time they're also online so I'm like the end

of the month I'm in one in actually coming up soon I probably I can't even keep them straight there's one on Buddhism and Consciousness which which I've been invited to and there there's ones in science and Consciousness is just like overwhelming now suddenly the the uh the drawbridge has been raised and the water's coming through or something it there's a big change so how does that affect the actual phenomena that people have I think it the experiences are probably the same as they've always been the difference is that people are more willing to talk about

it so the the taboo that has prevented people from taking it seriously at least in public like taboo all about public versus private so in public now it is becoming more and more acceptable not only for Lay people but for scientists to talk about this I mean this these are big science conferences now talking about the nature of Consciousness and that has also changed the nature of the of the discussion because when when a person goes through a scientific career this is still pretty much the case but it is changing you go through a scientific

career you are never taught or never even mentioned to you that Science is based on a set of assumptions and so the assumptions that we're not taught that that is actually philosophy is that we live in a world made of matter and energy that's the Assumption it's materialism that's what a philosopher would call it so if we live in in a worldview that assumes that everything is made out of matter and energy that allows certain things to exist and other things not to exist and and the the key is that Consciousness is very very difficult

to account for if you imagine that everything is material because material is like looking at the world from the outside and and Consciousness is somehow looking at it from the inside so to to clarify the so-called hard problem in Consciousness is that that's we have experiences so you can watch somebody from the out side take a bite out of a lemon and we can actually trace it now all the way down to the individual neurons and the way the brain is working and all the all the rest of it but that doesn't tell us anything

about what it's like to bite into a lemon the experience of it so this is the the what's called qualia is this internal sense of what it's like to have an experience and the phrase is like what it's like what it's like to have the experience well we don't know how to account for that from pure material so we know a lot about the way the brain works we know that there are correlates between internal experience and the brain activity and all that but now we're finding that that thought leaders and physics and the neurosciences

and psychology are beginning to recognize that maybe one of the reasons why it's been so difficult to understand this is because we're asking the wrong question a philosopher would say it's a category mistake you're you're ask you're assuming something which is a mistake like asking what is the square root of an orange well that question doesn't make any sense it's like that's why it's a category mistake so if somebody said well what is the brain activity that's giving rise to Consciousness that's like the square root of an orange it doesn't make any sense so this

is why you're finding more and more uh scientists who are saying well maybe we were asking the wrong question maybe it's not that Consciousness arises out of the brain maybe the brain arises out of Consciousness or something else and so this is what philosophers have been talking about forever and it it says well where are maybe some of our assumptions that science has been based on are not correct and by the way anytime you have a set of assumptions not all of them are 100% correct some of them are going to be wrong some are

probably slightly wrong some are really wrong so I think what's happening now is we're seeing that some of the assumptions that has driven in science to this point are simply wrong not to a minor degree but to a huge degree so that the push back from that that I I hear often not so much anymore but I used to hear it a lot is that that can't possibly be right because otherwise we have to throw away all of our textbooks and start over again that's a fear and so I said no no no you you've

misunderstood it's not that materialism as a Doctrine is wrong it's a special case it is extremely effective for certain kinds of things in the world just like classical mechanics is really really good except in the space of large gravity and large spaces and so on then you need relativity or in the space of the extremely small where you need quantum mechanics so we're not throwing away classical physics it works got us to the moon and back it's just not good enough so materialism as a Doctrine is not good enough to be more to be the

kind of comprehensive way of understanding reality that is necessary for us to begin to understand Consciousness and now here's the the the rub the rub is the moment you step away from materialism and you entertain more broader ways of understanding reality suddenly Consciousness is included and psychic mystical and magical experiences are also included because if Consciousness actually is a key component of the way that reality works works then psychic phenomena would would work because it's going to be primary before physics and magical phenomena for the same reason and mystical experience which is the perception of

all there is so that that's why I think the the curve that we're on if we look at this in terms of uh the increase in the in various forms of Consciousness in science and outside of science we're on an exponential rise and we're beyond the knee of the curve at this point that means that the that the exponential part is going almost straight up and we're in the midst of that right now and and so the one of the reasons why I was motivated to write another book after real magic is because I wrote

real magic five years ago this is 2024 that I'm speaking so I wrote that five years ago and from then just till now from five years huge changes in in how this these topics are being addressed that means you really are on an almost completely vertical rise in terms of interest and I figured well I better write about this now because we wait another 5 years it's hard to predict where we're going to be hi there guys I wanted to take a quick moment just to introduce you to my onetoone coaching it's something that I

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pleasure to support your spiritual awakening your spiritual path your spiritual unfoldment it is my life's work I look forward to seeing you in the call back to today's podcast it's super inspiring and that's probably a question worth asking in terms of where you do think we're going to be 5 years from now but just before we get there there was something well what you've just alluded to it's unpacking something really deep in my mind because so much of science the way well the way I view science back background of an engineer is you know you've

got math builds uh and which is built upon like physics builds upon that and then you've got chemistry building upon your physics then you've got biology building upon your chem but then just then you underpinned math is measuring matter and I was like oh yeah matter oh materialism oh that's a that's a philosophy in a school of thought that mainstream science is built upon and so I can see the latter in hierarchy that was very clarifying for me and you said Consciousness is primary can you just clarify what the latter would look like on how

these different fields build upon each other over here can is that possible or is it not as clear as a letter yeah yeah it's the the Pyramid of knowledge the way we think of it from a disciplinary perspective is the bottom the bottom slice of that pyramid is physics you could add mathematics in there too but it's mainly it's physics the discipline of physics and then chemistry and then biology and then psychology and so on so the the the pyramid is building up to at the very top of that pyramid is the assumption that somehow

consciousness emerges out of all of this somehow so that's materialism the and materialism really doesn't quite know where Consciousness should go in this pyramid it sticks it at the top because we don't know where else to put it so the only change that happens is that we take Consciousness and we put it below physics it's a new slice below physics and now the question is well how do you get the physical world emerging out of something as kind of non-physical abstract as consciousness well that's what philosophers have been discussing for thousands of years it's the

the philosophical ideas like idealism and dual aspect monism and panchis and there's a whole bunch of of words like that and these have been pretty welldeveloped and more importantly major neuroscientists and physicists and others as I've mentioned are now using those words right because they recognize we need something more comprehensive well what do we do with it well it's like they suddenly discovered that there's philosophy of science and so the this issue would have been solved many many years ago if every scientist was taught oh by the way there's a philosophy of science you're being

taught a certain worldview there are other worldviews they're not going to Discount what you're doing but it's more comprehensive ways of thinking about the nature of reality with a Big R there is something more because most of us have lived in in the developed countries at least within a certain set of philosophical assumptions which assumes that materialism is the way things are soon like materialism equals reality with a big r that is this is not the case reality is much much bigger than simply materialism it's something more and and we now we're kind of forced

to face that through what we're seeing is a a Renaissance almost or a a Resurgence of Interest in the nature of Consciousness and its role in the physical world it's in there somehow just to take a sort of sideways step this has been suppressed for like cuz this is now we're having more and more conversations like this but witches were burned at the stake um magic doesn't have a very positive reception if you look back through history um but then also reading your book was quite interesting because there are people well you look at something

like certain churches and certain institutions some people are allowed to do magic and the rest are forbidden from it like it's can you shine a light on some of the more interesting parts of history and why magic in your opinion has been suppressed yeah so sociologists call of History will call it the disenchantment of the world and we are currently in the re-enchantment of the world so the disenchantment happen and uh at least a case can be made and I think this is probably true that the uh the Orthodox Churches have always believed in supernaturalism

which you can say is almost equivalent to the to Divine Concepts it's a in within religion there's the concept of something bigger than us God or some other name like that which requires the Divine because it's invisible it's omnipotent it has you know has all of these qualities of superheroes essentially uh and so uh church is very powerful because if you go back far enough in time nobody really understood how anything worked and so life is uncertain and people would say Well there must be a reason why this person got sick or why that entire

town got wiped out by some disease that they didn't even know what it was so religion naturally would arise when people don't have another explanation for something and because of the uncertainty of life and death and so uh as the Catholic church in particular became more and more powerful uh it found that uh it's its ability to control and you see this again and again any any kind of large organizational thing especially one that is has some control over people that its ability to control them it depends on their assuming that you actually are in

touch with God right you in touch with the Divine you have a a direct connection somehow to the Divine so if somebody comes along and starts demonstrating something which we might call Magic like a a a witch doctor or a Seer or somebody who has they can start attracting people away from the power of the church that's why witch burning began because they were threats and the other reason is that the so-called pagans and Heretics who were not part not within the church at the time uh we're also seen as threats especially like the at

the time think of The Druids up in the Celtic World well they had very magical society and they had their own beliefs well that's that's not good that's taboo that's taking away our our power and so the acquisition was created and witch burning and all of that around the same time or going back now about 500 years around the same time was the beginning of what we would think of as science but the fledgling scientists of the day had to be very very careful because they saw that their their own people were getting burnt at

the stake like like Bruno and others because they were challenging the doctrine that the church said this is the way things are you weren't allowed to to challenge it so one of the characters here that that's important then in this history is Galileo because Galileo like others were very well aware that the church said anything having to do with the human spirit is in our domain you may not at a threat of death question it so Galileo made a strategic decision essentially and a and a article he wrote a famous article called the essayer in

which he said uh this this new science that we're developing which is based on empiricism where we test things and then we get kind of result and that we use mathematics to describe it this is only about the objective world it's about things that we can measure objectively and it has nothing to do with what he called secondary properties which had to do with the mind with Consciousness with spirit with religious ideas and so on he made that separation very clear that allowed science to progress and and he got away with the church said okay

you could have that but we still have anything to do with the spirit so you now have pressure from the church going back hundreds of years saying this is our domain anything having to do with magic is okay within the church but it is not okay outside is demonic outside and it's specified in the catechism that is the way things are among science uh scientists said the only thing science can do is look at the the objective world has nothing to do with anything else this is one of the reasons by the way that even

as as early as maybe a hundred years ago that within psychology which is the study of the Mind the notion that Consciousness existed was taboo there is no consciousness this is why people like behaviorism became very popular in Psychology that the only thing that you can say about psychology is observe Behavior because that's a straight line all the way back to Galileo saying if if we want to do this as science we could only look at observed behavior and have nothing to do with what's going on on the inside that's that's what Psychology was so

you have pressure from science don't look at that you have pressure from the church don't look at that and the the the effect especially on the academic world was really really powerful and you see it echoed all the way down to the present day that if you're an academic and you want to get tenure you don't talk about these things in public because you you won't get tenure and you'll be pushed out of the system and this has been going on for many many generations and so the only thing that a student will hear in

most universities is these things like psychic stuff and magical stuff it's really really interesting from a psychological perspective why why do people believe in that stuff but it's certainly not real like there are a lot of other explanations psychological deficits and so on but it's not real this is still the prevailing opinion it's going to change it is already changing because the as I said Consciousness is pushing it hard and anyway the the data is already there there's tons of data saying that no these psychic effects really are real and some of the magical effects

are real too but there kind of the same thing so that will change but it CH it'll change a lot quicker if during a scientific career students are taught that you're working within a set of assumptions and some of them are wrong and the ones we think are wrong have to do with Consciousness that completely changes the the nature of the game it well also change to the taboo and as I said there are now a growing number of historians and religious Scholars and sociologists who are saying we are in the midst of a re-enchantment

of the world and so the reason why this one of the reasons why this is so important something feels like it's left out well what what is it one way to answer that is that the scientific worldview is a is a worldview of nihilism that's a philosophy that nothing matters there is literally no meaning or purpose to anything where does that come about it comes about because of the of the nature of materialism all there is is material you're a hunk of material when you die that's the end of the story there's nothing left because

there is no you and there's no purpose right it's all just matter tunks of matter that somehow randomly everything happens so our internal sense says that that can't possibly be the case like humans we eat meaning we need meaning in the same way that we eat food you you can't exist without some purpose and meaning so you step back and you say I'm now an academic psychologist I would say well that's that's just like a that's a problem it's a Frailty of what it means to be human this this new version that of of reality

that we're beginning to to see develop now is saying that's probably not the case it looks like meaning is somehow also inherently wrapped into reality it may not be meaning is in the same sense as uh I I have a need for something so I'm I'm going to attribute meaning to it maybe more abstract than that but nevertheless it is as though mind and matter and meaning are threads that weave together in a way that we that create a tapestry that is reality with the capital r so that that's how the this that's one of

the reasons why why I think people feel that something is missing because it actually is and it was a matter of a mistake in the philosophy that at least Western Civilization had adopted when you look back do you think there's been um like is there is there something that you've got a bit of nostalgia for that you think you might that might have been like is there a Nostalgia for what may have been lost through the ages of having suppressed these studies uh and burning is at the stake and such things and you know relegating

magic to the into the hands of a select few cuz if this had been I don't want to use the word enshrined but let's just use the word enshrined for a second enshrined as science has been enshrined thus far uh or materialist science has been um shrin thus far the amount of development and the sort of studies in the space would have filled out the the the the colors between the lines in such a richer degree to somewhat is there some sort of um yeah how do you feel about that that is that's the real

question that's the key question like why did we develop in this direction as opposed to something almost like a Utopia where everybody gets along and everybody is fine and has very strong abilities of this type and there certainly are legends like that right we have folklore Legends of lamura and Atlantis and things like that where everybody was was young and beautiful and had probably were were perfectly fine people and yet they went away well I don't know if those stories are true or not I mean there there's increasing evidence that even our ideas about how

long some kind of civilization has been around those are probably way too uh conservative that that maybe we we've been we've had multiple very Advanced civilization for a very long time maybe so what what happened then well one of the things that happened is that we're besides having some awareness and Consciousness and so on we're social animals and we're highly aggressive we're we're primates we are very clever very aggressive primates that is probably why we have survived because we're being part of the aggression part of the cleverness means we're resilient and so if the the

weather changes the climate changes things happen asteroid hits the Earth who knows only things that are very resilient are going to survive it's like us and cockroaches and that's it because the dinosaurs were wiped out but we're still here so you you then look at what else does an organism need it needs to be able to survive and so we we put a very high premium on maintaining the both the resilience and the aggression and even a pretty broad range of what it's like to be human so we have some humans who are autistic some

that are that are psychotic I mean there's the the range probably is not a mistake you have people who are on the edge of Madness who are Al also the ones who are known for being highly creative right like in the Arts um we have people who are autistic who maybe uh have abilities that uh so-called neurotypical people don't have they call it lightning calculation and having memories that that are like perfect memories of everything well a quote normal person can't do that we don't have that ability but they do well in some respect that's

pretty good because until we had computers he needed somebody to remember everything and so they would do it and likewise in in more indigenous cultures you'd have Shaman who were the psychics they right they're the they're The Magicians they were able to do things but those people when they're really really good usually can't take care of themselves very well right they they're not going to have an ordinary job they can't do that stuff they need the community to take care of them because they're valuable well we don't have those jobs anymore I mean where do

you look up a Job saying I want a job as a shaman maybe in California here and there you find a job like that but in most places now you don't find jobs in for Shaman even though it's probably an essential component of of the world so take all of that and kind of spin it together and you find that uh the aggression is probably what's eating Us Alive It's a combination of aggression and also the recognition that we need to eat food we need to have resources we need certain things in order for us

to to exist as organisms that naturally leads into a direction where uh where we find governments event arising that are pushing us away that are distracting us from what it would be like uh to to be more open about these things but there's another reason the other reason is let's say that you get get an entire civilization that is that be that is aware of and actually uses their psychic ability about the closest I can think of is maybe ancient Greece when they had the the mystery schools so the mystery schools were important because they

were open to everyone including at the time slaves uh and it probably involve psychedelics and the reason why it involv psychedelics was to give people a sense of what reality actually is like gave them a mystical experience so everyone had that experience when you have that experience it opens you up to all kinds of things that otherwise you may not be aware of well one of the things that may happen is that people become more telepathic whether it's literally being able to uh to not not read somebody's mind but get a sense of who they

are in a more intimate way rather than simply having to rely on what they say so imagine an entire civilization where people can tell if you're lying just something as simple as that like they have a really really good internal sense this person is lying now and everybody knows it okay what does that do for the justice system and politics and business and law and and all of it it would be so different from the world that we live in today that besides science and besides religion you have politics pushing very very hard against the

idea that we want people to be that open because we can't we we can't maintain civilization as it currently is if everybody knows who's lying and so you can make a case then that the the disenchantment came about out as a result of a variety of different kinds of pressures some of which are still pretty active like people who are in positions of great power today whether it's money or politics they absolutely don't want people to know what's actually going on with them because like they don't want telepaths around knowing what's going on they will

suppress it one way or the other uh an easy way to suppress our knowledge about this is simply say there's no federal funding for this know you can you can do whatever you want you know you use pieces of gum and string to do your experiments because we'll give you a dollar a day but you're not going to get more than that well that essentially puts a stopper on the speed with which we could learn anything and so it has taken about 140 years for science that has been systematically looking at these kinds of effects

to gain extremely high confidence that the effects are real but if we had a billion dollars a year we would have learned that a century ago so I mean that is one of the consequences of this kind of suppression so in short what has been lost is that we would be centuries ahead of where we currently are today and the nature of civilization would look very very different he there quick questions what is your relationship with magic in your life is it something that's already well established did you know that you had it or are

you just finding out that actually some of the stuff you were doing was magic or is this something that you're about to bring into your life I'd love to hear from you about your relationship with magic in the comments below leave me a comment I'd love to hear from you and if there are any questions that you have um F Dean I'm sure he'll be back on again in the future leave some questions below and if you want me to ask them next time around I'd be honored to do so on your behalf with that

back to Dean in today's episode it's interesting because it feels like as much as they try to I'm picturing like a beach ball that they're trying to keep under the water somewhat um but it keeps wanting to pop its head back up and what I mean by that is I look at something like well even Dr Joe dispenza's work with the placebo and uh just how much you know he wrote the book like you are the placebo and just how much it's just it's so hard for to keep like oh yeah we're the placebo you

know like it's so hard to where like your mind and your relationship with mattera and it's you can only suppress so much without it rearing its head in all sorts of nooks and crannies like roses growing out of concretes yeah the way it it appears and has it has always appeared as entertainment right how many movies and superhero movies and horror movies and novels are based on the idea that people have these special powers it's a very large chunk of the entertainment business and it's perfectly fine there we know we they those kinds of movies

and stories would not be as prevalent as they are without people resonating with them because if you have a story that is so bizarre that people don't even know how to react to it that that kind of story is not going to be around for very long but but they are so I mean it's also not a mistake it's not not an accident that in in science fiction stories like uh like either Star Wars or Star Trek you had characters who were able to do this and Star Trek did it in a brilliant way where

Mr Spock the most rational creature among among the crew through meditation learned how to do mind melds well that that's perfect right it means that at a more highly Advanced state of of internal understanding which is important part of the Vulcan thing uh yeah these These are quite real abilities and it's not even a big deal but yeah so that's you see this in science fiction again and again it's uh also I wanted to zoom back out for a quick sec because something I picked up through researching your work was let's see if I can

frame this question up the way my I'm trying to intend to is that whilst magical abilities are suppressed there's almost like a insu thing that's happening is that the collective belief in the abilities is dimmed and therefore the current with which people that are enchanted let's use that as a term can wield their access to set abilities is actually more challenged as well and yet if there's more of a collective belief the current universally gets stronger for people to be able to access these abilities and therefore it becomes easier to wield set abilities I think

I got it out right can you explain that yeah uh it it is true that uh personal belief and Collective belief are are are aspects that will modulate the ability for these effects to be stronger or less strong uh to a degree so we know certainly within individuals that belief is a very important uh factor and and certainly in magical practice if you're doing a magical spell or some kind of Enchantment and internally while you're doing whatever the ritual might be you're thinking this is stupid this is this can't work then it's not going to

work so belief is is known to be a very very important modulator of this the question now that you're asking is well what about if the society doesn't believe it does that have a factor the answer is yes because among other things it means that if you tell somebody that you're doing magical acts and the response that you're getting B back or looks of disbelief or looks of skepticism and so on that affects your own ability to believe you start thinking o maybe I was wrong maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe that will stop the ability

they'll squash it so doubt is definitely uh one of the factors that magicians will try to avoid and one of the ways of avoiding it is you don't tell anybody so in the sorcery Traditions the sorcerer would never reveal what they're doing to anybody even to other sorcerers because they they first of all don't want other people's intentions intermixing with whatever they're doing and second they don't want the slightest amount of Doubt to creep in this is very difficult now in the modern age because uh we because most of us have gone through more or

less standardized education where we're told that this stuff is fine for education but that's it in which case if you're interested in Magic and you start doing you dabble with it you do read books and try things it's very difficult to suspend your disbelief because you you know you're like just on the edge of thinking well maybe this is stupid I shouldn't I shouldn't be doing it or maybe from a religious sense I'm thinking like this is going to open the door to some sort of demonic who knows what and that I shouldn't do it

so those kind of doubts very easily creep in and they will block it they'll they'll block the uh the effect so people then say well I but I would I'd like to to use Magic on something well how what do I do you suspend your disbelief you have to imagine the same sense that you go to when you see a Superhero Movie if you go to that movie and you're thinking this is stupid nobody can do this what the superhero people are doing well why bother go to the movie you go to the movie and

you suspend your disbelief and so you do the same thing when you're involved when you're doing some kind of a a magical act you suspend it as as best as you can so there is complete belief no doubt at all during during the act itself whatever that happens to be and then later you can start doubting yourself but at least during the uh the effort during the intentional effort there is no doubt at all and it it takes a while to learn how to do that but that's what's necessary I think the the doubt and

the skepticism is really interesting isn't it because it's yeah inclined to be out skepticism is viewed as like a as like a healthy thing but then also it's it's just masquerading it's just doubt masquerading around well but it but it is important right because it the the downside of all this is that uh you can start seeing Omens and everything right everything then starts look like then now there are people psychically attacking me and there magicians after me and you can get paranoid you you you can get pulled into a bad place pretty quickly as

one of the the magician I've read a lot of books on Magic and one of them says that uh he he started doing magical practices and was with his friends and they' watch his friends and some of them would go barking mad right you get pulled into a place like a rabbit hole and you you just end up going completely psychotic you go crazy because for two things one is that you start to see that some of the stuff is real like the magic is real that that all already is kind of a freak out

the second thing is that you allow it to take over everything else and so magic can be quite real but that doesn't mean that you you need to stop working with whatever your work is and you need to stop all of your relationships with other people and everything else you can have everything is exactly the same as the way it was before with one new thing well okay the one new thing is pretty strange but it's just one new thing it's not not like the rest of everything so it takes it it's useful to be

reminded of that again and again so that people don't end up going barking mad interesting balance there between you how to navigate doubt and skepticism I was I'm looking forward to asking you where does one begin if they are interested in beginning but I think the key thing I wanted to ask before that is some of the stuff we're discussing now um because I think there probably are other like grounded practical reasons why it's not always been available as a modality for everyone to approach and wield um are there some pre-qualifiers before I ask a

question such as hey how do people get started you know is there any asteris and caveat we need to put in place many many caveats so it it is known by meditation teachers that roughly 2% of people learning how to meditate will become psychotic so there's danger in anything right so especially when it's we're dealing with uh getting a better sense of of who and what you are and what you might be capable of so if something as simple and gentle as meditation can make some people become psychotic you can imagine what happens when your

worldview is shattered because you now have have the door has been opened a little bit and you can now see that there's a lot more out there this is another reason why why psychedelic are so dangerous that for as a party drug it's one thing if for some people will take psychedelics more than 2% and they will go quite quite crazy they'll become crazy well anytime you're you're addressing your ability to understand the nature of reality and your role in it for some people that is both frightening and destabilizing and it's psychologically not healthy so

how do you tell in advance whe whether you're one of those people very very difficult so experienced meditation teachers will sometimes do an interview with somebody to find out like how grounded are you really know how how easy do you freak out when you do freak out well what's what what's your go-to way of of solving your sense of freakout so if your go-to way is drinking a huge amount of alcohol maybe you should do something else go play soccer or something go go do something different because this isn't that for for you and there's

lots of other ways I mean a really good psychologist a clinical psychologist will recognize that this this is probably not a good thing for you the more grounded the better and especially the more grounded uh and having social outputs to be able to discuss with somebody like is you know am I am I going crazy and if you're friends that you trust saying yeah like back off dude something something's not right here well then yeah you need pay attention to that U but in terms of of what would what would you do then knowing that

there are some caveats here that you don't you don't gain power without having something challenging yourself uh there are lots and lots of books there's lots and lots of YouTubes lots of videos and so on there's lots of of ways that you could find out pretty quickly there's even some reasonably good online mystery schools to help you do this the best in every single case is to find at least least one trusted teacher with a good reputation that can guide you through it same is true in meditation same is true in any kind of thing

where you're trying to learn something you find somebody who's been there before and knows what to do and what to avoid so there are teachers around too so as as with any kind of teacher you go by Word of Mouth by recommendations of uh this person was really good and stay away from that person those kinds of things uh for for a very very Elementary introduction primarily for scientists or people who uh who trust science that's what I wrote real magic for as a book but mainly this is the next book that I have coming

out because in that book I go through the science and the evidence whatever but then like the last third of the book is well what do I do what what are the practical things that you need to keep in mind and what are the practices so the the easiest practice that that kind of attracts people now because it's simple as sigil magic sigil is a symbol you you take a word or a sentence that that says what your desire is this is for enchantment type magic and you use that to craft it into a symbol

and then you there ways of focusing on the symbol to empower it so to speak and then you release it into the world and your sigil is done and then you allow the universe to go ahead and do whatever what whatever that enchantment was but there are lots of other methods and so in in the process of putting together a book where I I spent time going through these different methods I found that for for me at least that one of the methods that I found the best for me and I have little couple of

quizzes in the book that say well what what should I do well it depends on what you're good at so one thing I found that was really good for me was not magic which is not noot but k n o t it's making knots making little knots so this is a piece of yarn you could use a piece of leather or string or whatever and so the the point of Enchantment magic is that you're instantiating a a desire an intention you're taking it out of your mind and putting it out into the world and so

how do you do that well all of the methods are variations of that how do you take this thing inside your head and cast it into the world so not magic is while you're creating a knot literally creating a knot in some kind of string or something you as you are pulling the knot closed you imagine that your intention is in the knot you're pulling it you're capturing it into the knot and I what I like about it is that it's kinesthetic right it's not like a purely mental thing that's going on it's not even

symbolic you're capturing it inside that little knot and so you can do it again and again and again and again so this was one string but it made I don't know 50 60 knots to turn it into a little little object and so there it is so you've now encapsulated your intention you've put it out into the world and then you can set it aside or you can put on the wall or you can destroy it you can do anything you want with it the goal is to get it out of your conscious awareness right

as long as it's in your Consciousness your conscious awareness you're kind of holding it there this even is a thing in physics Quantum Zeno effect the more you pay attention to something you kind of freeze it and so I don't want to freeze it I want to First create it and then go boom let it out there so I keep this one around because I don't exactly remember sort of remember what it was about but I also then told myself you know don't dwell on it sort of let it let it go out and do

what it needs to do without dwelling on it so if I if I remember clearly I can kind of reconstruct what it was that I was doing but otherwise I just use it as a way of demonstrating what a not is it's not magic so there's many variations like that and again some people will be drawn to that because it's kind of fun uh other people will use a candle other people will use words they'll use symbols they're all essentially the same thing they're just appealing to you will resonate with one of the methods more

than the other uh and all of it is about getting the issue of want I want this this whatever that this happens to be to get out of your head and to get it into the world and to allow your unconscious that then help Shepherd it into the world and somehow the world will respond and it and it makes it happen so we have two stories on that so one story is this so in in talking about in in vacular we'll talk about manifestation the same thing as enchantment you want something okay so I said

well let's say that I wanted uh something very very simple like I want to find the equivalent of a $1 bill translate into your language so I want to find a $1 bill just laying there on the ground it nobody dropped it it's just there I want that well that's that doesn't require very much of the universe to make that happen somebody at some point or something some thing happened to put it there it just doesn't magically appear but the magic part of now is that I want to be able to find it so I

put that as a as an enchantment on myself I want this thing well is a you think of this from probabilistic perspective the probability of being able to find something like that especially if you're in a parking lot around a store or something it's actually pretty high but I've now tuned myself to be able to look for that even subconsciously I'll be looking for it the likelihood is I'm going to eventually find it and I know people who've read my my previous book on this where they would find a $10 bill and people have written

back to me saying yeah they found it in some cases they found it hours after doing the sigil for this and I think it's more a matter of tuning what it is that we want and paying attention to it even not consciously for things that are already there that's how a lot of magic Works taking advantage of things that are there that we're not paying attention to so I said well what about something that inherently is so improbable that it's not likely to happen so I want a goldplated Mercedes to show up in my driveway

that's mine I want my goldplated Mercedes real gold real Mercedes and yet it hasn't happened yet even though I'm using that as an example and I haven't actually done an enchantment to try to get it but I use that as an example and then one of my a person on a podcast who was listening to this and she sent me this it's a goldplated Mercedes it's not exactly what it had in mind and she what she said along with this was as you know and I do know but I didn't say it that when you

do an enchantment you have to be extremely clear about what it is that you want because even though I was using this as a the kind of as illustration I did say I wanted it to be an actual car that I could drive so here I have a little car and it is a Mercedes a Mercedes and it has wheels and everything so then I'm on another podcast and I'm telling the story and I'm looking on my desk for where the the goldplated Mercedes is and I can't find it so my brother happened to listen

to that podcast and so he sent me another one so now I have two golter Mercedes and this one's a sports car that one's pretty nice again so they like the doors open and the wheels go and everything it's still you know I can't go in it so again so you have factors then that that amplif y these effects you have intention attention motivation belief and Clarity right and your ability to imagine that it's even possible right this has to do again with with suspending your disbelief if you're thinking this is stupid this can't happen

even if all everything else is in place the likelihood goes way down so there's something like nine different factors like this all of which have to be as close to Optimal as you can possibly get in order in order to increase the lik that the enchantment will work so I decided I like my car now and I don't actually you see if I got an actual go plated Mercedes a whole bunch of things have have to happen out there in the world for that to really happen because it's going to be extremely expensive somebody's going

to question well you know where how did you get that where did you get that you know you have to pay insurance on it and all kinds of things now I don't I don't actually want it so you think now going back on it I don't really want that thing which of course goes into the into the mix of the enchantment itself and says no cancel he doesn't really want this so it means your unconscious has to be in alignment as well which is hard because by definition you don't exactly know what that is so

it's one of the reasons why big enchantments are really really difficult because typically it involves your unconscious and other people and so the other people will be thinking somebody has a goldplated somewhere in the world they have a goldplated think they're they're thinking I don't want to get rid of this you know like they even if they were able to sense that somebody wanted it they're thinking oh no you don't and so am am I more powerful than they are probably not and so it becomes each stage along the way especially involving other people uh

the reason why black magic is considered to be overriding somebody else's free will you have to take that into account I want somebody to do this if you don't have the permission to do it you're asking for trouble and by the way that also goes to somebody who's ill and you're wishing them well you probably want to get their permission to do that because you might be overriding their own free will by by casting something upon them hi there guys I wanted to take a quick moment just to introduce you to my one toone coaching

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absolute honor and a pleasure to support your spiritual awakening your spiritual path your spiritual unfoldment it is my life's work I look forward to seeing you in the call back to today's podcast yeah it was very interesting because as you started to share the the the the the foundation stone started to look a lot like desire and want and I'm glad we got to the subconscious there because also um yeah you start to speak to spiritual teachers in they talk a lot about Oneness and how desire is actually somewhat emanating through you from Consciousness like

if you can get your own personality desires somewhat because some of those are programmed in by societal wants and they're not actually innate to the individual's I want to use the word sacred self but there's probably another way to put that um they're not innate to the soul let's put it that way way um yeah and then try to navigate your way around the desire um and try to manifest something through and yeah it was cool to sort of hear you say ah your subconscious mind actually plays a large part in this as well um

in terms of you know what what can be brought forth and what can't be um there there's also a distinction between want and need so you may or may not get what you want you're much more likely to get what you need so the the distinction is I mean you might think that the want and the need are the same but they're really not I mean you need certain things you need air you need place to live and things like that uh or maybe you don't need a place to live there some people are nomadic

and perfectly happy wherever they are so it the want and the need is a distinction that is not always in crystal clear but there's something about the difference between the two like I I would like to have a suitcase with a million dollars really well how are you going to actually spend that there's a very few places in the world well that's going to do you any good at all because you either have to launder it through a bank a shady bank somewhere to be able to use it since money is All Digital now or

you go to Las Vegas or you go to someplace else where you you can actually use a large amount of cash because otherwise there are all kinds of agencies watching huge cash transactions because it's probably Drug Money so a suitcase of a million dollars is actually not such a good thing to have so you again it goes down to Clarity and thinking about the consequences of what it is that you want slash need the the nine factors uh are really interesting as well I love the ones that you covered intention attention motivation Clarity belief one

of the easy ones um it's probably all easy but to some degree but um one of my favorite ones I guess is uh probably inviting people into bless their food right like that's that's such a yeah that's just such an easy access point that I think is already part of the collective Zeitgeist so you don't have to stretch too far uh to wander into the woods I guess yeah especially given uh foodborn illness so in the US we were just going through a case where uh Big Macs at McDonald's had a very serious and deadly

I think eoli problem uh so then you're thinking well I just wanted a Hamburg I didn't want to kill myself so part of the blessing of food for for a very long time thousands of years is that you're about to eat something and so part of the of the blessing or the the hope is I hope this doesn't kill me I'm just trying to get some food here so we did an experiment to see whether or not the blessing made any difference and this is also it's echoing from what I've heard from chefs who occasionally

will'll say that the attitude of the people especially in a restaurant if it's a positive attitude everybody's happy in there then the customers will respond better than if you have people who are angry or something else something's going on soosa and people will not respond as well so it has an economic aspect to it to to the what is the attitude of the chefs and the the emotions so we did it using chocolate as the food and so uh one of the the reasons we did that is because whenever you do a clinical trial uh

it you you have to recruit people to do it and we found that it was really easy to recruit people who had to eat chocolate as part of this experiment had to beat them away with sticks so we we got this Gourmet brand of chocolate that came in little pastil like a little coin and uh we gave people enough so that they three middle days of the week they had to eat the chocolate at 3 at 10:00 a.m. and at 3 p.m. they had to that's by you must do this we're giving R permission and

at the end of each day during the week the seven days they had to fill out a mood questionnaire reporting what their mood was like over the course of the day this is a standardized um questionnaire that we use and so uh the our first version of this we recruited 60 people so 30 in each batch it was double blind and Placebo controlled and that the placebo control was at the people getting the chocolate didn't know what kind of chocolate they had they knew that that somebody would be getting blessed chocolate and some would not

be getting blessed chocolate we had a Mongolian Shaman uh and a Buddhist monk do the blessings the blessing was that people eating this chocolate would have an elevation in mood well we did that because eating chocolate will elevate your mood in any case so we're lasting for a larger increase of of mood elevation and people eating the bless chocolate so we did the whole experiment and then looked at the data afterwards and sure enough we found the people getting the Blessed chocolate had an significantly elevated mood as compared to people getting the same chocolate that

had not been blessed so when I Was preparing to publish this thing I know it it was sent out of course to referees who are going to look at it and see whether they believe it or not uh one of them disbelieved it to such an extent that they hired a separate statistician to look and see what whether or not I did the statistics correctly and they did and so the the paper was ultimately published uh and showing that something that a Buddhist monk and a Mongolian Shaman did changed the way the people responded to

this food and so then a a colleague of mine from Taiwan said uh we'd like to replicate that study but we don't eat that much chocolate can thawan so he said maybe let's use some other kind of thing that people normally would consume which turned out to be tea not surprisingly so we used a large batch of oong tea and we separated into separate bottles had Buddhist monks from a temple bless it again with a mood elevation again uong te will elevate your mood because it has some caffeine in it but we wanted it to

be elevated more and and the the people getting the bless tea so in that case we recruited 200 people so we distributed the 100 bottles to one group 100 bottles to the other group didn't tell them what they were getting this was double blind because the people giving the the substance didn't know what the substance was they were just told to hand this out to these people so that kept them blind and then the analyst in this case was me I didn't know what was A and B I just knew there's water a and water

b or ta and TB and so I I would do the analysis and then find out later which one was the the real one or the blessed one so again we find a significant Improvement and people getting the Blessed chocolate and here we also then asked each person who did get the Blessed choc or the tea in this case do you think you are getting the Blessed tea or not we want to see what kind of placebo effect there might be in there also to see whether it is true in the magical Traditions that belief

matters because like for people getting the Blessed tea who thought they were not getting the Blessed tea did they differently than people getting the Blessed tea who thought that they did and the answer is huge difference people getting the Blessed tea who believed that they were getting it had a very significant very highly significant Improvement in mood people getting the bless te who did not think that they were getting it were had exactly the same as people not getting the bless te at all so a huge difference in mood that was modulated by their belief

about what was going on so now you go over to the people get getting the non- Blessed tea and you ask them the same question do you think they were getting the Blessed tea or not for them it was no difference so they they weren't getting a bless tea there was nothing to modulate for people getting it there was something huge to modulate so that actually does support this idea within magical Traditions that for the magic to work you have to believe that it's going to work because otherwise you internally you're blocking whatever it is

that makes these things work we have since done the similar thing using these this tea or this water that had been blessed uh for improving the growth rate in Plants very significant uh finding better growth in stem cells so doing a cell study and most recently been not published yet um seeing if we can reduce the migration rate of glol blastoma cells which is a pretty serious brain C uh cancer and so there in all of these cases yes we found that the uh growing cells and growing plants in blessed water made the results much

better than then the same water that wasn't blessed profound uh it does lead into the question of breaking enchantments um we've talked a lot about making enchantments um do you have you come across breaking enchantments is there is there a use case for such things well in the magical tradition it would be it would be called banishing it's banishing magic you either suspect or you know that somebody's doing something you don't particularly like and you can banish it so you you can do a ritual to sort of block it from happening the other type is

uh binding magic so binding magic is somewhere it's like in a gray area because what you're binding is preventing somebody from doing something that you don't particularly want them to do so you bind them so they don't do that thing typically typically it involves binding them from doing something that would be bad or at least that you perceive as bad and that's why it's a gray area because you're you're in that case literally overcoming their free will to do something that they're doing but if you perceive it as they're bad person doing stuff you don't

want them to do that so binding magic and banishing Magic are classic ways of of it's of trying to stop the either a magical spell that is going in a Direction you don't like uh we just stopping it completely especially if you think you're being attacked so again this is It's kind of on the edge of paranoid except that the moment you get a sense that this stuff is real well now what right because your belief is this stuff could hurt me and so you have to do something to prevent it from hurting you because

your belief is there so the the banishing magic is typically the way to do that that in the easiest way that that people have talked about for a long time is putting up a mental Shield you put up a shield of white light or a mirror or something like that that simply protects you from it in which case it can be highly effective then the thing things will not get in why because you've created what amounts to an imp impenetrable shield and you believe it and that's simply that's enough to prevent it from happening brilliant

thank you so much for that as we start to wrap up today's conversation I can't help but feel I remember when I had a conversation um The Four Agreements and we talked about toake wisdom and the the M like the sort of the Maya and the illusion of the world and yeah it was talking about not letting other people's programs become your programs um and I can't help but you know feel today's conversation is so beautiful in so many ways because yeah there's been a disenchantment and there's almost like a re-enchantment that's being brought into

the world and it's through your work and I think it's really interesting Dean because I guess some people like looking from the Western Z Ka at the moment it's like becoming disenchanted is like there's so much there's like a there's like a draw towards grounded um but yet somewhat I'm going to use the word empty but grounded yet somewhat empty is probably what's coming to mind at the moment and there's almost like a re-enchantment that's being invited in by yourself and I couldn't help but feel when I was talking to um Don migu Ruiz there

he said yeah as much as you want to decondition your mind as much as possible when you go to have kids you'd love to keep them as an empty slate but you quickly realize that if you don't condition them somebody else will right and so this is really there's a there's a there's a rub in there you know um and I think the disenchantment re-enchantment I couldn't help but feel that there might be parallels um happening in that space in that we want to be disenchanted and we want to see the world as it is

but is that even possible and potentially there's always enchantments in place and if you know do we is it a matter of being Enchanted and being Enchanted in a way that feels right for us to be enchanted touch would just an open question for you yeah it's it's a very good question and there's no easy answer to it I think uh one of the solutions that at least that we see in the United States is people homeschool their children right so if you're you go through homeschooling all the way up at least through high school

and then sometimes you go to Specialty colleges too you can end up with a worldview that is extremely different from everyone else this is mostly done within a religious context but it can be in other context too well so this is the the parents approach to try to get the the children to perceive the world in a certain way because that's what's going to happen it's fine if you're living within a community where everybody else is like that like like in the US like an Amish Society where people stay within a kind of a bubble

there U but you know the question can be well then what what is the purpose of life why why are you do should you be exposed to everything lots of things are not so good and some things are really great is it is it better to do that or to maintain a very constrained sense of the way things are and I can see arguments on both sides so that's why I don't have a good solution to this uh in in a sense every adult has to make up their own decisions one of the things I

do find though is I know a lot of people who say that they are they used to be Catholic so that like like you're inside you're grown you you're raised within a bubble and then typically what happens as you start to learn more and more education you realize a lot of that stuff in the bubble doesn't make any sense at all because that's a clashing with things that I'm learning that have some empirical basis to it because within the bubble it's all based on pure belief or faith I mean belief and Faith are going to

make a distinction here because faith is in a sense belief without evidence in fact he's even worse than that it's belief where you're you're not allowed to question whether it's true or not the really strong belief is one where you say I'm not sure I believe in that or not I'm going to try something and you do it and it works well that's a very strong belief now because you have a reason to believe it if you don't have a reason to believe other than because somebody said it's written in that book it's what I

I'm saying you should believe that's pretty weak that that's why people end up staying within the bubble because the moment you start looking outside of the bubble you realize that that stuff didn't make much sense so there's a downside if you want someone to be engaged with the rest of the world they're going to they're going to learn all kinds of things so you want to be able to get them to the point where they're able to make decisions for themselves which by the way is probably around age 30 not you know like 18 forget

it 18 is even a 20-year-old is not fully formed they're still partially like a fetus you you want them to be at a stage where they have some understanding of the nature of the world and its its complexities and they can make some sort of informed decision and so I always used to hear that uh you hear this in scientists a lot that yeah they were a really good empiricist for a very long time but then they got to like age 60 and they became a philosopher well well why does that happen it's because there

is a certain degree of wisdom that comes along with age where you can kind of look back at at what you were doing a lot of up until you're about 60 there's the family and the work and the job and everything it's just com it's overwhelming and and you get consumed by it all because you kind of have to then when things lighten up a little bit you have a chance to look back on it and start to figure out well how what what of what I was doing actually makes sense from this perspective well

some of it does and some of it actually didn't or doesn't and so one of the the disadvantages of the Modern Life is that we don't have live with three or four generations of people because if we did we would hear those stories right from people who are now in their 70s or 80s or even older saying you know you know yes what you're doing now you know that's not really a good thing to do or maybe it would be better if you do this and if you then respect the elders based on their wisdom

that's a much better way actually of living but you know we don't live that way anymore except maybe in indigenous societies and so that's that's a sense of something that we've lost because of the way modern civilization has gone which it would be nice if we were able to figure out how to how to reconstruct that how to make that happen again Dr D wow thank you so much for helping us reclaim such a such a beautiful and mysterious mysterious part of yeah just reality our relationship with our mind its relationship with matter understanding Consciousness

more fully and yeah just finding our place in the world in in such a rich way I will put a link to your books um below there's a new one like you said coming out very shortly as this after this episode comes out um in the coming months as we step into 2025 as well um actually we'll go as far as when the book pops out we'll also add that to the link in the description below for anybody listening to this episode um after the effect as well um but there's a lot there there's websites

no tic like there's so much going on in your world as well um for people that wanted to go a little bit deeper obviously the books are there any other places you'd like to recommend they they check out some of this work well you can go to my personal website which is deen.com where you can go to uh one of my jobs which is a chief scientist at The Institute of noetic Sciences which is no.org which you'll have on the website and then uh my other job is co-founder and chairman of a biotech company called

cogenic where we're creating a a new kind of treatment for mild cognitive impairment for dementia and maybe for Alzheimer's brilliant I'll put a link to all of that in the show notes below Dr Dean I want to thank you for your time and energy here today thank you so much for sharing yourself so abundantly here with us such a fascinating luminating conversation but also in the same breath I think that pale in comparison to really you know you've been forging a path forward researching this stuff for 30 40 years and you know it hasn't it

I'm sure like now these conversations are more widespread it's easier they're catching like wildfire people are interested whereas you know when you were first scratching the itch you know I'm sure it was quite uncomfortable but you just followed your curiosity and it was interesting to you so you did it um but I'm sure there was some external factors along the way that were probably what are you doing um so just want to thank you for you doing you all the way through um really grateful for you thank you so much for sharing yourself here with

us today you're [Music] welcome a lot of superstitions are essentially magical rituals right they're they're they're pushing on your belief and belief is such a strong modulator of this stuff that if you do it you will believe more that this is going to help you and then it helps you the part of of of some of the magical laws laws are that the word is the thing it actually is literally the word and the symbol is the thing itself ah and that's why in the magical Traditions you don't tell people your name oh you have

a you have a a pseudonym that that is uh father soand so or frighter you know fill in the blank right because your name is identical to you this so you gain power this is trippy cuz like in the Bible it says in the beginning there was the word is that a magical W no way yeah sure the the word is the thing yeah also God there's so much to talk about in there what the word uh spell you cast a spell what do you what do you spell you spell a word it's the it's

the ingredients that go into a word yeah spelling s p e l l yeah spell and spelling are are the same root idea that the the the phonetic symbols in that case are put together in just the right way and there are a lot of magical rituals which are saying sounds right ancient Aramaic ancient Hebrew words there are sounds that are put together in a certain way and this essentially is the the element of the cabala cabala creates reality as a result of certain words isn't that interesting cuz there's even the study of like neural

linguistic programming which is looking backwards almost in on yourself based on Words and body language and behavior which is like this is what you're saying this is what your body language is doing and Rec and like decoding almost what the spell is really interesting yeah I trained in all that stuff for a coach for coaching but this is yeah there's a I wish the podcast wasn't over okay to be done again in the future thank you again so much for your time dude y inspired song you made it through to the end of another incredible

episode thank you so much for your Inspirations to evolve just a friendly reminder to all of you that everything you see around here is it's powered and empowered by your subscription to the channel so if you wouldn't mind please taking a moment there's a bell notification and a subscribe button just below if you can hit the Subscribe button it's lighting up in the colors The Inspired Evolution and hit that Bell notification icon it's supports everything we're doing here championing the love of positivity wisdom around the world and also to all of you that are subscribed

to the channel we recently hit 100,000 subscribers thank you so much for your incredible love and support it is such an honor Jud to be your brother doing this work walking this path by your side thank you so much for your blessings and with that on screen right about now is your opportunity to continue your Inspirations flowing and evolving going deeper uh continue to inspire your Revolution inwards upwards onwards so here we go take a pick of you one of these videos and I'll see you in the next one