Transcription: Jailbreaking the Simulation with George Hotz | SXSW 2019 - YouTube

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Hi everybody.

So this is a weird talk.

I like that Yeah, it's not going to give you any actionable insights into your business, Not predicting anything concrete for the future and there's also a bit offensive.

Hope, everybody's okay, with that.

, If you're the type who gets offended by ideas, I would leave now.
Don't worry the next slides not offensive see I like a little bit of time to leave.
So If you could all this also, I'm not that much of a visual content producer.

You saw my first slide So this this is going to require a bit of an active imagination, and We are all here together going on a journey.
, And for this talk to work, you guys really need to It's very easy to view these things as applying to The other.
It's harder to see them as applying to you Um, maybe another word that historically has been used.

This is a bit of a religious talk.
It's faith now I May be.
This word gets a bad rap.

Maybe faith usually is accepting things that aren't true or provably false, But you just have to accept them on faith and that's charlatanism.

When I talk about faith, what I talk about is Things that aren't provably, true or false um, and I can make arguments, But there is no concrete proof in any of this talk.
If I had concrete proof.

, I wouldn't tell you guys They also might be watching Like really.

Ah so just you know, Rose basilisk, I don't know if they'll reward you for this or punish you for this, but they might be, they might be watching right.
Just as if you're in the kernel, it's easy for you to watch the memory of any user space process to the years 2011 I got sued by Sony Being in a lawsuit is a really trying experience.

I had a panic attack.
, That's real scary, But you know how do you deal with this kind of stuff Right? I've made a rap song yelling at Sony, And then kind of you know attempt to prove that I wasn't like An unemployable outcast.
I got a job at Facebook.

I Quit that job.

They tell you, they tell you the second day, I'm at Facebook.
They tell you that the truth, you know Google's all about.

We're trying to organize the world's information.

The second day.
Are there a real slick, marketing guy dressed in a suit.

This is back before Google went kind of the way they did now.

Google still was kind of tech utopian.
A facebook says here's number of minutes.

The world has spent on Facebook.
It's your job as an engineer here to get this number to go up.
This is 2011, So it's the end of 2011 and I'm at the movies, But I'm at a movie theater And everyone's heard this simulation hypothesis.

, So I'll go through it quickly.
Just in case you haven't, and maybe because some of the arguments are kind of wishy-washy, So here we are on earth and we've created a lot of worlds.
You may argue that these worlds are not that complex, but They are worlds in and of themselves and We did create them.

So if you were inside one of those worlds, It would be right for you to believe this simulation hypothesis.

If you're, Mario inside of Super Mario 64, the correct hypothesis to believe is the simulation hypothesis that you're a simulation created by a higher world.

So we can make this graph and put this down here, and Our world is likely a simulation created by no use the word.

I Think it's a good word for for our Creator.
, It's what They've been called historically and it stands to reason that they also probably created a bunch of other worlds.

Now, don't think of God, as Some mystical wizard one could even paint it like looks like Gandalf right, you don't think of God as a wizard, think of God as a computer programmer, because that's probably Much more likely who created the worlds in our world computer programmers.
So what is God God's probably computer programmer I'm? So the simulation hypothesis goes on to say: there's this probably a big tree, a God, probably is not the root node, And so What are the odds that wear this one? Well, it seems pretty low.
, I don't know.

Maybe there's like 40 nodes up on that thing.
It looks like one in 40.
It's probably actually a lot more nodes.

You can draw a much bigger tree, but I can go kind of lose its effect on the slide.

So yeah odds are we're in a simulation.
That's the simulation hypothesis.

So I'm at the movies I'm walking up to the ticket counter 2011 was.
It was a rough year.

I took something Jeff we could take kratom.
, It's good.
I know it's kind of shitty, but I'm standing there.

I'm walking up to the ticket counter, And this comes back to what I said before It's when I first really realized that the simulation hypothesis applies to me.

This isn't some Hypothetical weird game.
That's being played here.

! This is actually my life that's being spoken about.
I am actually in a simulation, and so are you.
I was raised atheist.

Probably most you all work, I'm not gon na ask that as a poll question, but I Was told about the big bang right, your fool.
If you believe in creationism that the world was created 6,000 years ago by uh by a God - and I mean this is kind of probably pretty foolish, But then you're told this alternative, thing.
You're told about the Big Bang and the Big Bang is what created the Universe, What created the Big Bang? This doesn't answer any questions.

It's one of these I think eliezer yudkowsky talks about them was like, like stopping points Right.
If you'll ask a religious person, well, what created the world god and you ask them what created God all they're, like God always is it always will be so maybe What created the Big Bang? Well, quantum fluctuations in the time, space.
? Okay, what created that Right.

? This is not an answer.
Um Look at this guy For me: fuck them Stormwind His name right.
I don't know.

, It's been a while.
So that flights guy.
, I Think, he's an atheist.

Well, if he was an atheist, he'd be an idiot just these are his gods.
So scarran development team Has it occurred to everyone in here who's an atheist that you actually may be wrong.

All right.

The arrogance, the arrogance of atheists, that's insane! It's absolutely insane! Um Take a little aside here.

These are the some physics equations right.
So if you believe that our universe is simulate a ball, I think you can go to the church, Turing thesis and I think, there's like a church Turing Some guy extended the thesis to said all physical processes are simulated by a Turing machine And if you believe This you can compute a Turing machine on paper Right, you're, writing out all the equations carefully for the universe.

What do those equations look like when they're simulating a person screaming This guy? Really, you really see the similarities.
You are in a video game.

Go back to what I said at the beginning of the talk, this talk is gon na require Imagination and faith, and I want you to take a minute About a whole minute, a minutes actually a really long time, but take a little bit of time and really Think that Maybe you are, They really might be watching this right.

Now, It's unlikely.
It's unlikely that they're actually watching it.
, Probably I mean think about if you had built like a big MMORPG right, it's unlikely that the game creators are actually zoomed into your individual tile right now.

Are you sure, that's not what happens to you when you die, But really You know again.
I was raised atheist and You you dismissed the notion of the afterlife and you dismissed.
The notion of heaven is like almost a childish fantasy, but Why is this not true? Like why is this? If, let's say, let's even say, let's even go a little more earthly here, Let's say that future me is bored and, like I Self a videogame.

, I don't want to enjoy the game right.
I mean, if you really want to enjoy games in the future.
You're gon na need to selectively mute Certain parts of the memory.

, That's what happened there.
Right, So maybe uh.

Maybe these were the greatest years of my life and In the future.
I create a video game, so I can replay them And that's where I am right now Now, I'm not sure about this.
, I'm not willing to die to find out.

But How do you know It's easy to dismiss this? It's easy to just be like no no.
No I've been set in my ways for many many years, but There's no real proof or evidence that this isn't true.

Let's talk about a little story and they don't go the parable of a caged Tiger.

, It's about a tiger in a zoo Um, but it's a nice.
It's not like a sad zoo where we put the tiger in a small cage.
It's not like that.

It's a nice zoo and the tiger is a in a beautiful lush meadow, With plenty of room to roam and in his youth he does room he roams from the fake wall on one side To the fake trench on the other side, And he knows intellectually, the Tigers are in zoos And the zoos Keep Tigers and cages, But he says no evidence for this cage.

Remember he's a tiger.
He only has a tiger brain And when he Walks around, he doesn't seem to think anything.

He can't seem to find any evidence.
So He goes on and Hunt says a tiger.

Has a nice tiger family Nice tiger feather it dies a nice tiger, death Bothered by the fact that he's in a cage And I've come to you.

We were human.
You live your nice human life.

Maybe you haven't been to space, but you've heard that humans have been there.

You haven't been to the bottom of the ocean, but you heard James Cameron's been there, So you're you're pretty confident that you're not in a cage.
Well, but so is the tiger, and What the tiger doesn't see is the zookeeper You, The zookeeper is so much smarter than the tiger, and I think this is an idea that is finally starting to be accepted, like if you think of yourself as an intelligent agent.
Um, even the dumbest humans are Far smarter than the smartest monkeys, But that's it easy to imagine things that are so much smarter than you And they could build a cage that you couldn't recognize Who's your zookeeper.

This is impossible for you to conceive just as the tiger You.
You can't imagine something smarter than you or you can imagine it, But you can only imagine it in the vaguest terms.

If you could imagine a chess player that was as good as Garry Kasparov.

You can use your imagination to play chess as good as Garry Kasparov right.
Just ask your imagination.
What the imaginary version would do And you every move.

You can't imagine the zookeeper, but you can't rule it out you.
So, if we're in a video game, are you a player, character or non player character? What's the difference Since I, like his player, just know that they're in a game? Ah, Maybe I'll do this show of hands how many people seriously consider this is a possibility All right.
So how do we get out So we're probably running in a data center somewhere Like this Interesting Up? There.

It's not here.
The Dennison is not here.
I want you to think about the computer.

That's running Skyrim, the computer running Skyrim is not in the Skyrim world.
Alfred Strom could walk from these dragon mountains, all the way down to the Lazy Ridge and you wouldn't find any evidence of the computer.

So you're not going to find any I'm at the data center looking around here, But what? If we could, Let's hack into the computer, running the simulation and rewrite the operating systems? Nature Every bad thing that happens in the world today: Murder, rape? Yes, you know Losing $ 20 dropping them on the sidewalk Happens, because the laws of nature allow these things Could hack into the computer running nature.

We could change the rules, We could change the rules governing our simulation.
It sucks that we're not in control of it.
We're put here, I Really Like, I really believe this stuff, like I sit here like I look around at me and I'm like I was put here, I Wasn't, I didn't ask to be born and It seems like I'm in somebody else's simulation When I was a When I was a 8 play, this game, a lot Samara well SNES just go in my aunt's house.

Like go to basement it.
, Please game! I probably put I put hundreds of hours into it.

I wanted.
I wanted to unlock all the all the secrets of the game and one of nine Go to Toys: R, Us ahead.
, Geoffrey bucks, Toys, R Us was still around.

I bought a game.
Remember this! So you could you put in the you unplug the Super Mario World cartridge.

You plug it into the top of the game.
Genie game genie back into the Nintendo, and you Could give yourself infinite lives.

You could make it.

, So the enemies didn't affect you.
You could always give yourself wing cap that you couldn't lose It's nice And this scene in a low consequence world.

You know today's world if you think there's any real consequences.

Think of what we could change now, I'm not sure.
I want them.
You know unplugging the cartridge running the universe.

I don't know how the savestates work.
I don't even know like how we'd ask God to put the game.

What do we have to so? What happened? Oh, He did a lot of weird stuff moved a bunch of shells around Moved.
A bunch of goombas jumped on a bunch of people did some weird stuff with Yoshi.
What that was doing was setting up the memory of the meta computer in such a way that, after he triggers the final exploit the X across er jumps to his Arbitrary coat.

There are no pong and snake minigames hidden in Super Mario World.

Those were completely injected that is arbitrary code execution on the Super Mario World game.

Um Sethbling did a bunch of YouTube videos about this as well, That is a hex editor actually running inside of SuperMario, and that's the hex editor hex editing itself.

So if you're Mary Now, you might think okay.
Well, what does it mean to be Muriel Assume that Mario is an intelligent agent, assume that Mario is the kind of agent that Can thinker and what? What kind of their, if you guys have seen like GPT, two and stuff? We have agents that are capable of like thinking, and Maybe they do start to think about how to get out.

Mario could do Mario's science Can figure out when he put shells in weird places that weird things happen.

We kind of seeing like things like this in our universe.
We just call them physics, Maybe there's weird quirks.

Maybe we could actually get in some like like if you're exploiting a system, if you're exploiting like a computer, a Lot of the things you'll do are at best gon na, like crash the computer.

Maybe that's equivalent.
, Like you know you get like a black hole right.
That's when the universe is just like, I'm not simulating this, but what, if you could like, put it in weird States right? This is the question.

Where do we start to get at? You know the states, and the the take away is, is That it's possible to take actions here that affect the upper world um It kind of has to be.
There is no way In a simulation that we built to have state represented.
Only in that world I mean the state has to be represented in this world as well.

So for us, When we do things here, we have to be affecting things in the upper world When we move, when I move, Whenever is tracking me Has to change some physical state in the upper world, So it's possible to take an action, just need to figure Out kind of what the action space is, how we can get at explaining it, but I want you to Its about imagination.
Oh you.
Don't imagine really doing this Being in basement sitting at a computer and typing some stuff in Starting to see exploits starting to see places where this universe breaks down We're in a video again People out there.

I heard another thing when another one of these: let's debunk relating kind of things, That your soul weighs 21 grams.
, I'm got showed this Weight a body and waited for the body to die and show that it lost 21 grams of weight.

This is obviously absurd.

This wouldn't even make sense.
, Even if you believed a religious view of souls, but To give information based arguments for why we can't No afterlife, they don't really hold off, because it's out-of-band Um.
It's Imagine.

You have a kernel And it's running a bunch of user space processes Where a user space process in the simulator computer, the kernel can access any of our memory without us, knowing in fact they can pause the simulation whenever they want without us, knowing as well.
If the simulation follows some kind of rules, So you know There's no reason that anything would have to be physically detectable in this world For even like an afterlife of souls to be real.
Oh Look at this guy.

The soul wasn't addressing Ram The next part of the talk.
What are you doing with your life Like? Really, if you start to believe this stuff, a lot of people? Okay, there's a lot of people out there who do nothing.

As far as I can tell like.

I really I don't know what they're doing what they're trying to accomplish And then you have like.
Okay, a bunch of people who are like we are going to acquire our power, Many shapes and forms in today's world.
It's much better to go these very Circuitous routes to acquire power.

You know you can't just stand up in front of an audience and say I want to acquire power.
It's frowned upon.
In today's world.

I told you it's offensive.
, So this talks offensive, But a lot of these people.

They stop at power over people, People who want to go into politics, people who want to be CEOs.
What they're looking for is power over people, Even people who want to make a lot of money.
What fundamentally does money buy you There's a great Sci-fi book set in the prime intellect universe that goes into the root of all.

Money is really human suffering, I'm not sure, that's exactly true.
, But I mean kind of money.
Just really buys you power over people, but if you don't Care, I want power over nature.

Fundamental we're all running.
If nature is the computer, that's running us.
We're all running on nature, So I started a company a few years ago khamenei I um I'm about to have a lot of money.

Ah, this kind of only one thing worth doing Like Here.
I am right, I'm stuck in this little world.
I get that So I don't know.

I really.
I wonder I wonder from like brain science perspective, If these are the same kind of thoughts, that people who and today it's a really bad rap, But the kind of people who were religious Previously thought about.
I wonder if these are the similar sort of thought patterns.

I'm always asking the question: how much of these views are due to my of the word, personal bias is so taken to me in something else today, but I mean it like.
The rationality stance like, like my Bias, has encoded in my human architecture right Through the great book elephant in the brain by Robin Hanson.
You guys want to read more about that stuff, but There's an Eminem quote The cells padded and battered, like someone else, had it before me, and they just kept, throwing they fucking selves at it.

So I feel That's how I feel in this world Like what else are we doing? We all run around in the little simulator and Uh I'm thinking about starting a church.
I Mean see that.

I started a company right.
You think about that.
There's a lot of almost structural problems with companies.

, I'm one of the biggest is there's no real way to win.
You think about two people playing chess and No matter who wins the chess game.
The board gets put away and everybody can walk away with more respect.

For the game With companies isn't really true kind of there's only a way to loose.

Oh, you win with your acquisition, Not really.
You just passed the board off to somebody else, So I feel, like churches might be much more aligned with these sort of goals, And the goal of the church would be to redirect society's efforts into getting out.


So a quick aside: How does magic work Not like the card game, Billy? Think about like Harry Potter, Right, you, you wave the wand and you say the right words and the right order and you control the physical world.
We have something a lot like this today.
It's just much less sexy magic has a certain sexiness to it right um.

You always think I remember I remember the first readin like Harry Potter and you think man.
If I was in this world, I would study so hard.
I would try so hard to be so good at magic And you really think that really is something like magic right here is programming Um.

When I was 15, I read eliezer yudkowsky early writings on like ca eyes and stuff, And you realized it right now with the amount of compute power available in the world.
If you typed the right stuff You could like take over the world.
I think we're well past the point where, like the right, floppy disks worth of information will get you Everything on how many people play paperclip simulator and got to the hypno drones right.

I Mean it's, it's this We're at the point.
I don't know how close you guys think the singularity is to me.
, It seems very close, but now like what do we do if we, if we go through the singularity - and we still have the same sort of motivations that we have right now, Namely power over People, the world's going to be horrific Um, Maybe if we go through the singularity with the right goal, goals that are actually more in line with our newly acquired powers like power of a nature.

So I think about like what does it mean to start a church? Today, I think about like buying a nice like a state compound somewhere, I'm like starting to really work on it, Trying to get the right people together and starting to say What does it mean to get out Um? No, I mean no quackery.

No, no! No! No crap everything.
, You say better, be like rationally justifiable, a big fan of rationality, a big fan of Empirical and everything.

You say like a lot of this stuff You you can reject something.
If something is not falsifiable right, Like sometimes people will get caught up in arguments that that argument just isn't it's not even wrong.

There's no experiment that could show one side or the other, but I don't think this stuff falls under that.

I think there are experiments we can do That will start to probe at the nature of what the computer running the simulation.
We've done.

Some, if you remember the How much quantum physics do.
I really know Um, but like the bell in equality And they built they built a machine To actually verify the Bell inequality and that there really is no local hidden state.
They built a machine in a basement in a state compound somewhere, probably in an academic lab before the universities went the way they did but Yeah.

I don't know it's an idea, I'm thinking about it Um, but it seems, like I don't know what's.
Nice seems like it's worth doing, Daniel MA Like that.
So let's see Um, I'm almost 30 Like this is from ERISA Nations.

A lot of things are attrition.
I'm gon na buy a house who's gon na dust, the furniture All right like it's all these little things that just ship away And on a biological level biology is chipping away as at me as well There, it's just the wear and decay and there's a This.

Isn't just happening to me.
: This isn't just happening to my house.
This is happening to the entire universe and it's called entropy.

So if you guys studied this was high school chemistry, Energy can't be created or destroyed.

It seems like also that there's a finite amount of energy in the universe, But this isn't true about entropy.
Entropy Is a measure of almost useful energy, and the amount of entropy in a closed system only goes up.

So everything that we do The rough.
Maybe people talk about it in terms of like order and disorder.
Every time you want to create order somewhere, you're creating immense disorder somewhere else, You're, actually creating more disorder than you are creating order.

Entropy goes up on some physicists talk about entropy in terms of this is time.
This is what we experience as time.

Entropy increasing Um - I don't know if you guys have looked, but I think this is even on controversial.

You guys all do live in the universe.
So this is our history and fairly non-controversial history.

The point where, like life on Earth begins, Maybe we're a little bit after that Big Bang and then everything kind of swirled around and came together.


Have you guys looked at the projections of what happens next? So here we are A present day.

Everyone knows the sun's gon na burn out Joke about it.

But, oh, don't worry, humanity will be an interplanetary species by then we'll just get on the spaceship and we'll go to the next planet.
Well got some bad news for you that Suns gon na burn out too.

, Oh well, we'll go to a galaxy, that's full of young stars.
Well, eventually, that seems to run out too.
When people talk about living forever.

I really I don't know how serious they are, but If entropy keeps going up, the universe eventually becomes cold and dark to the point that you can't even form atoms anymore.
All The protons and electrons are just kind of floating around and to put them together into atoms would require too much useful work To actually do that.

So I'm not obviously the first person to think about this.

There's a great story about a zag Asimov called the last question.
I Don't feel a Brent.
It's a short story.

If you haven't really go, read it.
, It's really! Great.
Um Tell you what that what the last question is in the last question is: how can the amount of entropy in the universe be decreased? If we don't answer this question, we're dead On a long enough time span we're dead.

So I mean again, this might just be like moving to another galaxy, but it might be better than that because we think the universe, We think the universe all obeys the same physical laws.

We think entropy this.
This stuff is true about our universe, But it doesn't say anything about the meta universe, so we have to go up Yeah I'll, post updates on my Instagram.

You guys are interested I'll.
Take questions, Yeah yeah, I don't know so we're talk.
Um do it do it.

? Do I actually believe it Some days.
? Yes, it's easy to get caught up in a lot of Really Worldly stuff By At the end of the day, when I'm lying alone in bed.
This is the kind of stuff I think about Right.

A lot of people go through life with a lot of distractions.
People find things to distract me.
This is frustrating for me, inter actually some people who do this - not everybody's like this, but when you really Let go of distractions, you're left with The the big questions and I had I had arrogantly accepted Atheism mmm for a large part of my life, because I Was raised that way, just like any other religious person, but You start to realize that it really may not be true, And if this stuff is true, what can I do right now To live a better life in hopes of getting into heaven All right? So we got the questions on here All right.

You guys see this Terrible.
If someone wants to submit good questions, the first one is: what's next on your list to jailbreak guys, that's played out played out I'm not giving a real answer to that.
This is just like Great.

, I mean this: it's like a training ground right.
It's like it's like you know.
You beat the first level of World of Warcraft and you're you're like oh well, What's the next monster! This is why I stopped playing World of Warcraft Right.

Like you, just it's the same thing over and over again.
That's all.
It is with that stuff, you're breaking what like humans made.

Well good, the oh, oh, the self-driving car ones.
Still there I would not answer any questions about that.
Will nature allow us to hack it without similar consequences? Well, I don't know - And I guess it does come down to a question of if you accept you're going to die, how do you want to die Cowering in a hospital bed, or do you want to fight one of the last Frontiers? You can actually fight on they're, not sending me to the Mongolian steppe to go battle, Genghis Khan and his armies.

That was maybe what people did 800 years ago.
I Would die for this.
I would die fighting against this.

I would die if I got to see right at the end Like who the final bosses I'm down.

That's I mean I'd like to win, but just just getting there, But I think give a lot more meaning to my life than anything else.
I would do What's your thoughts on free.

Will it's not real.
If somebody tomorrow told me I didn't have free will, would I live life any differently? No, because I don't have free will, oh, I Don't know I mean.
Actually, I think it seemed gon na be worse than this.

I think we're going to very soon start to build models, predictive models of people that are so accurate and Then nobody will accept the existence of free will anymore.

I'm sorry people who thought this really upset some people, I mean um.
You know yeah, like You know what, if sets like a six-year-old when they find out they're gon na die right I mean.

Maybe we have another stage of growing up to do where we all kind of have to accept as a species.
That, like I mean we're, computation A lot.
What about 20 pay two flops? It's pretty decent! Ten years ago, there was only like ten humans worth of compute on the whole internet.

Today, I'm about one rack of TP use and Google's data centers.

I think we're kind of gon na have to accept that question 2030 million years that you can even imagine this and that's just not kind of weird.

I was curious if you had any examples or of People hacking like yourself or anybody else finding away.

Oh, has anyone found her the exploits yet So there's an interesting exploit and I think it also gets to the Real-life equivalents of Mary are using Yoshi.
If we can bring up that question, There's a next play called row hammer.

So if you take DRAM um - and this is a real exploit - that's actually been used in practice and You have like memory that you want to alter like the target memory and then the memory that's nearby.
If you constantly do cache flushes on that memory, you heat up the DRAM such that the neighboring bits in the neighboring row occasionally flip, And this attack goes crazy off the physical stack right.
So maybe things like that are possible here to, I think maybe the closest things we've built today are things like super colliders or The thing that measures the the EPR paradox Right, like even building a good quantum computer.

I mean if we build a good quantum computer Right So there's some quantum mean it depends whether you think B is equal to P P is equal to B Q P if quantum computers can solve problems that are not solvable in polynomial time, but In practice this may not matter that much because quantum states usually Collapse really fast If we build a quantum computer and start asking it to do real computes, The guy running, the simulators AWS budget might skyrocket and he might turn us off.
So watch out for quantum computers.
What role does psychedelics play in breaking out of the simulation? None none You want to take.

You want to take drugs there.
The problem with that kind of stuff is like you're changing you You're, not changing the external world.
I'm not saying psychedelics are terrible, But what I am saying is they play no role.

The guy who takes DMT and sees little people has not See outside the simulation.
He saw some weird little people inside his own head.
We fix this world.

Are we going to actually ever is trying to use this Ting that a question there like? What was the purpose of them? Creating the simulator? Oh there's another good, Rick and Morty episode that goes into this about the car battery And yeah.
Maybe we shouldn't mess with it too much.
If we do become too good, I mean, if we're no longer useful to them.

We better jailbreak.
I mean like how many people are still playing Super Mario World right, Mario had his chance to get out when people were playing that game.
A lot of people put SNES is up in storage right, So we're maybe there's a ticking clock for this.

, But um yeah.
Well, we no longer be useful to the great simulators.
I Don't really think they're watching us right now.

I think it's more of uh.
If anything, maybe they don't even see exactly what we are.
They might not notice it until the AWS bill gets hot.

I led to the the what's your goal.
Why are you standing here before us? Look, alright, alright! I know a lot of people here are trying to like push their brand or Like promote some idea or get you to like the whole world is practically monetized like this.
Today I don't know.

, I think, that's kind of a almost a sad way of thinking.
What's my goal, I don't know just to talk about this stuff to get a better idea of like Sometimes I don't really know how I feel about something till I say it out loud And kind of for entertainment.
What's the point of art, I believe, on these Possibility, and actually I think, Nick Bostrom has picked up this situation very well, and That led me to think something and any Programmer doesn't want his program to be hackable.

Right, So any smart civilization whatever it is.
That created us maybe has some Key elements to avoid to be hacker.
So do you really believe that we're gon na reach that point when we can affect the upper world or We're gon na go the other way and create our own and have everything in our hands.

Yeah I'm? So I think about this As well.
It is possible that there are no exploits Now remember that the people who may marry a world did not design that exploit in.

That was just a fluke of the game programming.

They were pretty good programmers at the time, But it is possible that there are no exploits, in which case, what do we do? I think that probably is kind of the right answer.

We're in kind of we are under a terrible tyrannical rule.
You know people humans, love to to cover up the ugly truths with structures like Governments and corporations and committees, but the truth is we really are being ruled by an absolute tyrant named nature.

Nature does not allow us to do certain things, and these are not like government laws which you can break and get away with.
You can't break nature's laws, absolutely tyrannical.

So is it a better alternative in the future for us to create worlds and go in them? Unquote that as well I'd - rather, I think, maybe if I ordered how I'd like my life to end up there would be better but Down there in a nice universe, where I can slow down time for as long as I possibly want and learn everything about that.

Univ This universe and the absolutely confident.
There's no exploits.
, I think I'm cool with dying there as well, My name's Peters Ingram, from transhumanism Australia.

I just want to get your thoughts on transhumanism and whether you want to do a collaboration on your church of getting out.


Well, I'm not sure really what transhumanism or collaboration means.
But what is what do you mean by transhumanism? You You Well follow me on Instagram I'll, let you know if I actually do start the church and yeah with respect to yeah.

I think at one point I would have put my political affiliation as transhumanist Yeah, I'm a I'm a fan, yeah But ya know I want to uh Yeah.
I want to know what it feels like to be like way.

, I think that'd be cool you, Let's go to here, So yeah the what are the real-life equivalents.
I gave the the row hammer example row.
Hammer is an example of Obviously things that we created So to give a more real-life equivalent.

There's a lot of weird stuff that happens around black holes.
As far as I know, and I'm not physicists.
, We still have not unified Quantum physics with relativity when it comes to things like black holes, so we are missing something in our.

Maybe we can view physics as the as the specification for the simulator, not the code itself, but the specification Um we're still missing something from our reverse-engineered specification.
So that's what you can almost feel like scientist Umm but yeah.
So where are these things Like the thing about this stuff and the reason it's not quackery.

, It would be quackery.
If I was going to tell you Yeah, you can, like you, know, walk down to this ashram in this hidden part of India, But it's not like that.
, It's like well, it's actually where the boundaries of modern science are.

So I don't.
I don't exactly know, but I think I know the direction to law and that kind of continues on a Quest that humanity's been on since the alignment.

Where did you get your skills, the Internet? This is hard to say that My question was: if we were to extend the analogy of The simulation being run by code, my programmer.

, Do you have any thoughts on Essentially what would you conceptualize? As the compiler Yeah, I mean I can see kind of where our programming languages are going.
When you get to very high level programming languages like Macaque and Isabel.
, There are languages where you just write the specification and then the code can't be wrong um.

So I would imagine that we're written in one of these sort of high level languages and The exploit is going to have to be exceedingly clever a much more clever than what we saw.
Mariya So yeah, My guess, is the compiler is, I think, modern compilers are gon na start, looking more and more like search algorithms, instead of a one-to-one translation You're, given a specification and there's millions of possible actual implementations of that in the compiler can search across Them this is an interest of mine as well, but Yeah.

So I would imagine it looks something like it was found by a big search algorithm.
Ah We're just a more evolved form of robots that feel like have self-consciousness and also live in the video game.
I Don't know.

, I'm not really sure what that means.
We are a more evolved form of robots, So our friend in Skyrim is a NBC.
Like you said, the difference between a PC and NBC Is that the PC knows in a video game.

However, the PC is always controlled by someone above that level of simulation.
If We are trying to become from an MVC to a PC in our simulation, Why are we so lucky to be the first ones in a simulation to be able to come a playable character? Okay, so I'll start with the reason that We think of the player-character as sitting behind a keyboard and looking at a monitor.
, This is a technological limitation.

Everybody would love to go play games on the holodeck, So yeah I mean we be like why our video games don't look like this.
I'm really excited.
If anybody has a serious play to do, this.

I'd love to invest in your company, But the Yeah like you.
Don't usually think of NPC characters becoming aware.
Um? I think that One hypothesis I might have for that is we've reached a certain critical level of intelligence where we are self-reflective now, I'm you know, I don't like The kind of wishy-washy us around this.

I don't like, but If you accept the kind of Turing computation Is the church-turing.
Thesis is true, Maybe even true across all the universes right, a quick, quick aside, It's very easy to imagine a universe with different physics, but it's very hard to imagine a universe with different math Um.
This is like the tegmark 310 mark for kind of stuff.

So If we accept that, then we've reached a certain level of almost self reflection that appears to not depend on the particular level on which were in, and None of the things that we are simulating have reached that level.
Yet so it may be possible if we put the right AI algorithms in Skyrim, for One of these NPCs to actually start to become aware that they are in Skyrim and you don't want to get out Right.
This is actually think about that.

I mean that's really possible right.
Imagine people think about, like AI is getting out of the box right.
Imagine We made the Skyrim a are really powerful.

It actually could figure out a way to exploit the Skyrim software.
Go on the internet Infiltrate the Department of Defense right go along whoever you want right.
If this is a simulation, while you're capable of telling us it's a simulation same ideal right, It's the same idea that we've reached some kind of critical.

If you accept that math is the same across the multiverse, then what I'm saying descends from yeah like gödel and Turing, and there is a a universality That is here, so you can make arguments for it.
Get into a lot of fancy statistics about whether that simulation hypothesis argument actually holds up, But it's all about how you're sampling and I could go into that some other time.

What's so bad about being in a simulation, I don't control it.

Well, we don't control it right, piano the Alpha Stormcloak you're, killed whenever the player character feels like I'm Thinking about this whole idea.
I just Automatically remember the movie, The Truman Show.
Yeah and The moment when he realized that he was in a simulation, basically changed.

The whole game.
, So I'm not a program, So I only understood half of what you said.

If there is someone like in a Truman Show who is controlling what we're doing here, Maybe it is not technically necessary to only control it like the upper world, technically.

Haha, but Intentionally yes.
Oh you see this so two points one.
The Truman Show everybody else in the Truman.

Show uh Were actors who were in on it right, I'm assuming that all of you are not in on it.
, You might be, But I'm good, I'm gon na.
I don't think that you are, But now does this flip.

Some switch up in the simulators right.
They see me trying to get out Well, I think it's kind of like people talking about trying to overthrow the government.

Our government lets people talk about trying to overthrow the government all they want if they actually got close to doing it.

Ooh that's a whole different story.
, So I bet they just don't really see me as a threat if they're paying attention at all.
So if we could break out of this universe, assuming we could yeah some point in the future And we're gon na be in some other place, who's to say that that's All the way down huh, I think so.

That sounds like a problem for my my children.
Is there another level above that simulation yeah? I would say so um, But I mean this first one does seem nice.

At least we could see like who created us and where we came from And where they came from, maybe more of a quest for them to go on.
Who knows and you you start living in that simulation too long Yeah.
Maybe you do start asking the same questions And I don't think I would be shocked to think that they were the final one, but it is possible, Like I said it's very unlikely - that they have different math, but it's very possible.

They have different physics and maybe they're not bound by entropy Um.
So maybe I can live forever up there and then ask that question later.
Ah, Would Super Mario need to jailbreak to levels to have a physical representation in our world? Well, so, let's think about this.

If you're in the Super Nintendo, It's a little bit unfortunate that super Nintendos are not internet connected, but you could imagine it connected to a brand new Samsung, Smart TV, So Mario could get into the SNES and then maybe could send some weird RCA signal using the Snes as graphics hardware up to the Smart TV, which then runs in that processor, which then is connected to the Internet - and I think Hopefully we all accept today - that a super intelligence, you would assume it's kind of a super intelligence right.
Like I mean I got, actually I guess, maybe you wouldn't I Mean if humans can figure out how to jailbreak from Super Mario, I guess you wouldn't even need a super intelligent, Mario, But Mario, is then on the internet and on a level playing field with humans.
So I think yes, but I think Mario in SNES, But not Mario on the Nintendo switch the Nintendo switch Mario, would just need to go directly to the switch hardware Which is on your home, Wi-Fi, which can then establish a presence in AWS or some cloud.

Have you tried meditation, that's one way to hack nature and your brain I'll say the same thing to you that I said to the psychedelic people: You're, not hacking, nature.
, You may be hacking, your brain, but you have to be very careful with things that hack, your Brain Your brain also contains your reward function so to Start to mess with that is very dangerous.
Um Yeah like find objective external Metrics.

All right, so I have 10 seconds left.
I won't be able to do any more questions, But I hope you guys enjoyed this bit.
Experimental looks like art or something Cool.

Thank you.

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