Transcription: follow Him Episode 9 D&C 18-19 with guest Dr. Scott Woodward- Part II - YouTube

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00:00:00
Welcome to part two of this week's podcast scott, it's my understanding that the the quorum of the twelve are going to need the the melchizedek priesthood to to operate as the lord wants them to, and i've heard you say before that members of the church should view The restoration of the melchizedek priesthood as a kind of more a process than an event uh like the aaronic priesthood.

Could you elaborate and and help us on that, a little bit near the end of his life uh? Actually, in section 128, so he's got a few years left, but in section 128, as joseph is reviewing the restoration uh in verse, 21 of section 128.
He he's talking about priesthood restoration and he uses the phrase we've already mentioned today.
He says it happened, line upon line precept upon precept here, a little and there a little he he mentioned a few events.

He mentions peter james and john coming right after peter james and john.
He mentions the voice of god in the chamber of father whitmer.

00:01:01
He then mentions other angels that we actually don't have any stories about it'd be fascinating to learn more about raphael and others who brought keys.

He said, but uh.
What we we do know of.
I would pin it down to six events so a lot of times.

You'll hear people say uh peter james and john restored, the melchizedek priesthood boom done, i would say, that's not inaccurate, but it's incomplete.
Can we say it like that that was the beginning of the restoration of melchizedek priesthood, but there are five other events to go.
So they restore, if you look at their words, section 127 will say they restored the apostleship, the keys of the kingdom and a dispensation of the gospel.

That's what they said.
They never mentioned melchizedek priesthood, then when they go to father whitmer's chamber, which we've talked about god now authorizes them to confer the holy ghost and ordain elders.
He says: don't do it yet don't do it till the church is organized, but you're now authorized to do that at that time.

So that's another step, then we're going to get in june 1831 isaac, morley's farm they're gon na have a priesthood meeting there and that's where what joseph calls the high priesthood is restored.
Uh and if you pin down joseph smith, which would be hard to do.
But if you could pin him down and say when was the melchizedek priesthood restored, tell me joseph just tell me he would say first of june or from the first third of june 1831.

That's what his history says is that many uh elders were ordained to the melchizedek, priesthood uh and then uh.
The next three happened in rapid succession in uh on the third of april 18 36.
We now have uh three angels that come to confer keys, moses, elias and elijah and by the time elijah is done.

The priesthood has been restored.
This is what section 2 is talking about when the lord said, before the great and dreadful day of the lord elijah will come and reveal the priesthood, so elijah's got to be involved in this priesthood restoration, otherwise, where what was moroni talking about.
So if we go from peter james and john until the 3rd of april 1836 with elijah, now we can, we can say: okay, that's the process of restoring the melchizedek priesthood, that's a that's a much different paradigm than maybe the one we're taught earlier.

You know when i was a kid that you had the aaronic priesthood on this day, somewhere there yeah the melchizedek priesthood brought back where you're saying now.
This is a long process and joseph is learning along the way.
Sometimes we like to take our 2021 mindset and put it on joseph in 1829 he's going well, i've got to have melchizedek priesthood soon right, because how are we going to? You know how we're going to have elders quorum uh? Where he's he's learning this, as he goes, that's right, they don't even call it erotica, melchizedek priest until 1833.

I believe uh 1834, perhaps uh and uh uh they're, calling it lesser and higher and uh.
This is line upon line as joseph is saying: uh here, a little they're a little again section: 128 verse 21 joseph uh.
It came line upon line uh for him and the the keys that were brought by moses, elias and elijah all pertained to temple right.

They built the temple to get temple keys, so they could now go and build the navu temple so that the kirtland temple would be a preparatory temple to get the kind of keys.
They need to build the full-fledged melchizedek priesthood temple to help god's kingdom purposes reach their climax in navu.

00:04:27
See i this to me is just an important idea of competency when it comes to the church.

One of my favorite quotes if you're ever in my class you'll hear it is good to be faithful.
It is better to be faithful and competent and to me this is a matter of competency saying yes, the melchizedek priesthood was restored, but it was restored over a period of what i think you gave us seven years right there, where they learned a little bit as They went instead of uh.
You know kind of just throwing out hey may of 1829.

No because the priesthood's in it's restored it's over because then you're going to run into problems later when joseph says oh yeah, i was ordained to the melchizedek priesthood in 1831.
you're like wait.
What you won't run into those problems, if you, if you, if you are competent in what what actually happened? It's about establishing the kingdom of god on earth and the temple is the capstone of that process.

So all priesthood, eventually arcs toward the temple and the temple is where we're made kingdom people to the core prepared for christ's reign.

00:05:27
So priesthood is always about preparing us for christ yeah, and it seems that section 18 fits that doesn't it apostles are about others right.


00:38:15

This priesthood is about others.

The worth of souls is great in the sight of god right uh, an apostleship is about others, it's about crying repentance for others, so i think that fits really well um.
In verse 42 it mentions uh children who have arrived at the years of accountability, and they don't really know much about that yet or do they scott uh nope? That's that's! Another drop he's just dropping stuff in there and line up online here, yeah uh.
That will be that will be later, that joseph will get that once he starts his uh uh bible, translation uh in in genesis.

It will talk more about that when uh but he'll get that through revelation about the eight years thing right here.
The lord's just just dropping little little pieces along the way, and this will eventually be gathered together with other verses, which will help solidify the the eight year beginning to be accountable, we're beginning to be accountable at uh at the year uh at age, eight, so so.
Um, which one i see section 68 is footnoted there, but which came before the jst um is that in genesis, late genesis, yeah genesis will come before 68.

yeah and then 68 came later.
Well, that's just interesting to me because and that just it's one of those things that just makes so much sense to me that repentance and baptism come at at the time of accountability.
It just is one of those well, of course, uh.

So i love that, and i i like how you're describing the lord here scott he's just kind of dropping little things here, he's like.
Oh that's good i'll.
Probably i'm gon na give him a little bit of that, because that's gon na they're gon na be thrown for that they're, probably gon na be talking to each other for a couple of months.

What do you think he meant by that right? You know just i'm gon na give you a little bit, so you can be thinking about it.
It's almost like he's saying, i'm gon na give you these little 12 of the the korma 12 apostles uh age of accountability.
We're just going to let that percolate for a little while and they would have just translated a few weeks earlier, moroni or sorry mormon ripping on infant baptism, yes mean this would have been mere weeks earlier and so for the lord to say: uh children who have Arrived at the years of accountability will will need to be baptized as well, which is another another book of mormon thing coming out in this section yeah.


00:07:55
I just love how methodical the lord is about the restoration, slow, patient, deliberate, there's, a method to this, and we have to go nice and slow, so you're gon na get all this right and i think that's kind of goes against my natural inclination to just dump Right just dump out information on people, i'm gon na give my 16 year old and let's lay down the law.
You're gon na have to know this when you're 50, you might as well be taught now.
Here we go yeah slow down a little bit be be methodical about your teaching.

Okay, this has been wonderful.
I i am so excited to move into section 19.

00:08:36
If you were to pin me down today and say, what's your favorite section of the doctrine and covenants and i reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow, but i would have said 19.

, there are so many things in here that that i love and let's see What do we know? We've talked a lot about martin and the the stolen manuscript in 1828 uh.
What's going on in martin's life about this time and what has been going in the past few months? Yeah yeah, that's a great question, so i think to really get the full impact of section 19 yeah you just you just need to to just understand where martin's been coming from the last few months, the last year and a half or so, as i think about It you know, there's a big moment in martin's life that uh that i think is relevant here, and that is when he first finds out from joseph about the plates.
Now we're talking back in the fall of 1827.

1827.

00:09:33
He made it a matter of prayer and he said i got the quote here.
He said i retired to my bedroom and prayed god to show me concerning these things and i covenanted 1827.


00:09:44
I covenanted that if it was his work, i would put forth my best ability to bring it before the world.

00:09:53
He then showed me that it was his work.
Martin says by the still small voice spoken to the soul.


00:09:59
Then i was satisfied that it was the lord's work and i was under a covenant to bring it forth.
This explains, i think, a lot of martin harris's actions that he is.
He feels bound by covenant to help this work come forth and his efforts to keep that covenant have included right.


00:10:16
He slipped joseph 50, which at that time was a lot of money.

00:10:19
Uh in perspective right uh joseph will buy a 14 acre farm already.
It's got a home on it.

It's it's already uh cultivated uh for 200, which is going to take him a long time to pay off uh and so 50 bucks.
50 bucks martin slipped him on his way.

00:10:37
As he's leaving palmyra to come to harmony.

He said i give this to you to do the lord's work uh and then he makes the 140 mile plus journey from palmyra down to harmony in february of 1828 just to check on things and then he tells joseph.
I feel inspired to take some of your some of the hieroglyphs here back east and see if we can get some scholars to verify this.
He does that he comes back more convinced than ever that joseph actually had an ancient record here and then uh and then he immediately starts to scribe for joseph all in an effort to keep this covenant right.

He scribes the book of lehi and then we know the painful story about him, trying to convince others, taking the manuscript losing it or having it, stolen, uh and, and so that ends their relationship for eight months.
Joseph and martin don't talk for eight months and martin breaks.
The silence martin visits joseph again, eight months later, due to a highly distressing situation back home, where opposition is mounting in palmyra against joseph and the work led by none other than martin harris's, own wife, uh and and lucy's number.

One concern is that joseph is pretending to have plates so that he can swindle my husband out of his money, so this plays into the the back story.

00:11:52
The important backstory of section 19.
, uh and so martin comes knocking on joseph's door asking desperately.

This is back in uh in march to see the plates he said, i got ta see the plates, because not only is my wife gon na, take you to jail or she's going to try, but i will be implicated as well as as as an accomplice uh Here, and so i need to see the plates to which the lord responds, i will let you see the plates if you will right and he gives the conditions repent of your sins, keep my commandments and exercise faith in me.
You've got some preparing to do.
If you want to be one of my witnesses, martin and and so he goes back home, not having seen the plates but more determined than ever to repent get his life in order, so he can't now we come in late june 1829.


00:12:38
A few events have happened in rapid succession.
Translation of the book of mormon is complete and martin uh has been allowed to be one of the three witnesses so the morning of the of the witness experience uh joseph approaches, martin and lucy mack smith, says in her in her uh account of this.
She says he spoke in a voice that thrilled my soul.

He said, martin, you have got to repent.
If you want to be one of the witnesses, it is the lord's will that we do this, but you've got to be ready, so martin tries they go out into the woods, they kneel down to pray and it nothing happens and martin finally, is like sorry.
It's me, it's i'm so sorry and he was right.

It turns out when he leaves to go repent boom.
The angel appears, everything happens, as you know, david oliver and joseph and martin is just repenting, his soul out, uh, right and and joseph goes to find him later uh after the other two had their experience with joseph and the angel and uh and martin joins with Joseph he has an experience where he sees the angel and hears the voice of god joseph's own account of this.
He says that martin harris cried out.


00:13:44
He said in ecstasy of joy tis enough tis enough, my eyes have beheld and then he shouted hosanna blessing god and otherwise rejoicing exceedingly.

00:13:56
He comes into the to the home to the fae at home there to the whitmer home and uh joseph's mother said that martin was ecstatic.
He said he she said he seemed almost overcome with an excess of joy.


00:14:07
He he testified.
What he'd seen and heard the angel the voice of god he'd seen the record uh? Suffice it to say in june uh martin harris is on fire.
He is on fire he's like yes.


00:14:20
Finally, right he's repented sufficiently he's on fire he's now, a special witness of the book of mormon uh, the promise of the lord in section 5 that it would be declared unto him from heaven with power, has been fulfilled.
He's invigorated by this experience, and - and so that translates now into his efforts to try to get this thing published right, he realizes that he will be the one who will finance this he's realized that ever since his first prayer in 1827, when he prayed and covenanted With god that he would help to bring forth this work so with a skip in his step, martin, let out in negotiations over the next few weeks with joseph going out to see printers to to publish the book of mormon uh and uh they.
Finally, well so they start at uh uh at a palmyra print shop, with a guy named egbert b grandin and, to put it mildly, he granden was skeptical of the project uh.

In fact, at the end of june, as late as the end of june, he published an article where he called joseph smith's work quote a pretended discovery through superhuman means of an ancient record, which only you can only read if interpreted by one, who has the special Gift, he then said quote: most people entertain an uh, an idea that the whole matter is the result of a gross imposition and a grosser superstition.
Now, that's not what you say.
If you want people to buy the book right, he's trying to persuade people and when martin comes and says hey, we want to publish this with you.

He says no, no, not! Now not ever.
He says: martin you're, a fool.
If you're gon na waste your money uh, and so he refuses - i'm not gon na print this book, so they go uh.

They go to another printer named jonathan hadley, a young printer 20 years old.
Who also refuses to do the work but refers them to his uh.
His mentor named thurlow weed weed an old seasoned guy.

He says: listen, martin, don't do this.
Martin says i'll pay for the whole thing.
He says you're going to lose your money.


00:16:20
Don't do this uh and undeterred.
They then go to the final uh, a guy named elihu marshall, who says i'll do it.
This is a guy in rochester which is 25 miles away from palmyra, so uh.

So now, with a guy who has agreed to do it they're going to use that as a negotiating ship, they come back to granted and say someone's going to do it anyway, we'd just rather do it with you, because you're local, he says fine, three thousand dollars.
I don't know if he's greedy at this point or, if he's just trying to persuade martin to not do it but uh so just to get put this in perspective.
Right.

Remember two hundred bucks for joseph's 14th farm, but uh.
The going rate at the time for a printing was up for a printer to make about 12 to make about 12 on the project net right and uh, and this uh would put grandin as making a thousand dollars on this project net, which would be about 33 Percent he's jacking up the price, probably trying to dissuade martin harris, but undeterred and desperate martin and joseph are like.
Let's do it right? Let's do it so uh.

So now here's the catch grandin, wouldn't even he wouldn't even buy the type or begin the job until martin had promised to insure the payment for the printing.
This is very uncharacteristic, unlikely uh to happen to an average person trying to print a book because uh he was convinced it wouldn't sell.
He would he didn't want to lose a penny.

I want the full cost up front, full cost up front yeah from what i've read no way.
No one's ever been asked to do that.
Normally, a printer would just recoup the cost as the book sell and that's how you get your your.

You know your expense up front, you get that back and then whatever margins.
On top of that, that's how you make your money, but for martin he says this is not going to sell.

00:18:09
So how about the full cost up front right now? Well, uh three thousand dollars would be about 151 acres of martin's farm worth, which is almost the entire farm 151 acres.

He would need to put up as collateral for the book of mormon printing.
Give me the deed to your house and all your land.
Oh yeah deed me, your property right.

He has 18 months to repay the debt of 3 000 uh, hopefully from the sales of the book of mormon, uh or else grandin can now sell his land to recoup the costs so for grandin he's like i'm gon na win either way, but you brother, you Could lose big in fact, he's already warned him.
He would lose big and thurlow weed.

00:18:53
Thurlow weed has also said that so he's had two printers now that are in the business.

Looking at this project saying this is not gon na work, you're gon na lose everything and then his wife is still trying to organize opposition in palmyra.
At this time it starts to wear martin down a little bit.
Oh, you think you remember the skip in his step.

Well, that's he's starting to drag the way that uh another person put it.
He said.
Martin became staggered in his confidence.

He became staggered in his confidence and uh, and so that's the that's.
The back.
The background here to section 19 is martin is starting to slip in his confidence.

He's being staggered, he's had amazing experiences.
He knows the book of mormon is true, but even if the book of mormon is true and nobody buys, it he's probably going to lose everything.

00:19:41
Oh one thing that i have found over the course of of doing this podcast john.

I think you feel the same way is i love martin harris.
I mean that guy's soul is so he's just so good and he's asked to do so much um and he just every time it seems like he's.
He gets something good habit.

It just oh comes after him again, i think.
Maybe it's because i identify with him right.
I've had glorious experiences myself and uh.

I still get worn down uh over time.
You know, what's funny shouldn't say funny.
What's ironic to me, is we in the church kind of think of eb grandin, like oh, eb, grandin wow, really helped us get that book of mormon printed when no one else would and oh martin harris? Oh, isn't he the one that lost the pages right when it should be the exact opposite martin harris should be, it should be called the martin harris printing building uh.

It should be called the martin harris.
You know martin harris book of mormon published by martin harris yeah.

00:20:44
That's why i just ever since that talk of of um, dallin, h oaks, president dallin h oaks uh.

Perhaps he was elder oaks at the time about hey.
My middle name is harris and the reason why you know we need what was what was the phrase we quoted it before.
We need to let martin come out from under the shadow of that incident, to remember that and and yeah.

I i feel, like somebody said in an earlier podcast.
You know i love jesus.
I relate to peter or something and i'm thinking i love jesus i relate to martin he's he's got worries he's got my whole farm.

I i'm trying to keep my marriage together, um and uh uh.

00:21:24
You know you can you could feel that uh, okay, so the whole farm - and i never knew until today - i'm embarrassed to admit that 3 000 was over the top over the top of mount right.
Scott 33 percent did you say, he's gon na be he's gon na i mean just eb.

Grandin is seeing.
Not only is he probably warning harris, but he's also seeing an opportunity to take out his entire life from him.
You know right and i uh.

What does that do to your marriage? If you give your whole farm and and what means of future support, i mean? Doesn't it say in the proclamation on the family which martin never read that you're supposed to provide for your family and so yeah? I, and this is the very thing that martin's wife was worried about joseph - is gon na swindle my husband out of his money and now here's martin saying i'm gon na put up the whole farm, almost the whole farm.
You know and wow - and i you know i don't know why this maybe i maybe i'm showing my selfish selfishness here.
You guys, but i work.

I work really hard to pay this house and to build the kingdom of smith uh and then to have the lord say hand it over.
You know i i would need a section 19.
Is that what's going to be section 19 scott is he going to say? Is this the lord coming to martin saying you can trust me section 19? Is such a gem john i'm with you.

This is.
It's got to be, at least in my top five uh sections of the infinite covenants.

00:22:57
The the personableness, the the the intimacy of section 19 is so so touching to me.

I i almost picture it's is jesus and martin kind of uh come now and let us reason together, brother, almost jesus arm around martin right uh, but he's stern, but he's tender.

00:23:57
He's understanding he's empathetic in fact uh.
This is the only section.

This is the only time in all of scripture ever that jesus talks about his own atoning sacrifice right first person, first person: that's right what on earth what what could possibly draw that out of jesus? This is the ultimate like trump card in any situation right, jesus uh, i mean you can't you can't say i'm going through something hard when jesus is in the room.
You know as far as the atoning sacrifice goes uh.
He never brings it up ever.

He never compares crosses with people.

00:23:53
Jesus isn't like that.
He's he's gentle he's tender uh.

He he never says i've been through worse.
You know, maybe maybe a a liberty jail.
He says the son of man has descended below them all uh.

So there may have been one one moment there where, but, but here he's going to give an insight into his own sacrifice, what brought that out? What was on the line here? Yeah, it's got to be martin saying this is too much you're asking just too much of me.
I want to be part of it.
I want and then all of a sudden you connect at the garden of gethsemane, where the savior was very similar saying this is a lot you're asking a lot right to me that the thing that's kind of just well, where did that come from? Is this incredible? Incr unprecedented mystery revealed about what endless punishment really means.


00:24:42
Whoa.
What i mean book of mormon prophets didn't know that that doesn't sound like to me.
They talk about and listen eternal punishment, but but look at this insight and did that come from something for martin, maybe the only the lord knew or or what i mean.

That's amazing, stuff right at first the phrase, eternal punishment or endless torment.
These phrases don't come up in the bible; they come up seven times in the book of mormon and uh.
The lord now martin has had a past where he's he's checked out a lot of different versions of christianity, one that he has resonated with recently in the recent past has been universalism uh martin uh has this feeling that boy uh, i don't know if i can Think of of a loving god who wouldn't eventually save everybody, and yet the book of mormon keeps talking about eternal punishment, eternal damnation, uh endless torment.

I don't know about that, and, and so the lord is going to say now so so martin has had a kind of a guilty pass here right.
The lord has called him a wicked man for what he's done in terms of losing the manuscript right uh his carelessness there and uh we've seen we've talked about that he's had trouble sincerely repenting of his sins.

00:26:06
I wonder if there is some lingering feeling uh a guilt complex.

That martin has that the lord is is addressing here that, yes, those phrases come up in the book of mormon, but let me explain to you the mystery martin.
Let me let me soothe your soul.
A little on that and then i'm going to call you to repentance, like no other section, yeah yeah.

What does the lord tell him about those phrases, eternal damnation and endless torment, because to me when i read those in scripture, i think of that sounds bad right.
That sounds really bad, eternal damnation and endless torment.

00:26:31
No thanks, don't sign me yeah.

The lord says: wait, wait, wait, yeah, verse, seven, verse, seven, so he says again.
Well, it's certain six uh.
Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment like i could see how you could confuse that.


00:26:58
It goes forever right and then the lord says in verse.
Seven again, it's written, eternal damnation, wherefore it's! It's more express than other scriptures that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men all together for my name's glory.
This is intended to motivate you to repentance right, wherefore i'll, explain the mystery.

He says now: here's the thing uh verse.
10, the mystery of godliness, how great it? How great is it for behold? I am endless and the punishment which is given, from my hand, is endless punishment, because here it is endless, is my name, so any punishment i give is endless punishment because i am endless.

00:27:39
Doesn't mean it doesn't end, it just means it comes from me.


00:27:42
So martin think about that.
Now this is the capital.
It's the capital e right he's like yeah capital.

On that it's a it's a possessive pronoun, it's my punishment, yeah will will so.
This is interesting.
Do mormons do members of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints? Do we believe in an eternal hell that goes on forever and ever and the lord says i never said that uh torment will end.

It's meant to be redemptive, it's meant to work together.
For my glory for my name's glory, we'll find out later uh joseph doesn't know this yet, but in section 76 the lord says, yeah people will be turned over to the devil for a thousand years.
If they don't repent, they will suffer, even as i did, which is they're turned over to the power of the devil for a thousand years, and then he says, then i will redeem them from that, and then they will inherit a kingdom of glory called the celestial Kingdom, so even the lowest of the kingdoms of glory that joseph will learn about later.


00:28:37
Uh is for those who have endured a 1 000 year period of the kind of suffering jesus is about to describe, but then it ends, then it ends and hell is emptied and uh and they inherit a kingdom of glory which surpasses our understanding.

00:28:54
That section says - and so i mean that this just this is huge, i think - and i think maybe it means a lot to me because i, for a time when i was just a kid, i can't even tell you how old i was just the concept of Forever i couldn't, i couldn't wrap my head around it and then i thought about people being punished forever and i couldn't wrap my head around that and uh.
This is uh.

What elder maxwell might call a wonderful flood of light right here.
You know and - and i think too, let's relate it to um, eternal life, also because moses 139 is immortality and eternal life.

00:29:33
Well, what's the difference, i'm gon na live forever either way.


00:29:36
No eternal life is because his name is eternal is the kind of life that god lives.
The the most the greatest kind of life is that right, that's right, amen to me.
This is such a.

You can breathe.
Martin right, like there's, hope for you, yeah there's.
I know you've done some really dumb stuff, but there is.

There is hope for people who don't do dumb stuff, yeah uh, which is uh hallelujah right, hosanna forever.

00:30:03
So maybe could i could i just please a little walkthrough of uh, of kind of how i like to read this with with my own students uh, i just kind of do a little walk through as if the lord is just putting his arm around martin and Explaining some things could can, could i just do that here for a few minutes? Stop me: let's, let's talk but uh, i just to me, beginning at the at the very first verse.

00:30:29
Uh martin needs encouragement.

He needs help.
He needs.
I mean he's starting to buckle under the pressure, his wife two printers, who are saying this is gon na fail, he's gon na lose everything.

There's a bitter cup there's a bitter cup that martin is being asked to drink right martin.
I am alpha and omega christ.
The lord ye - even i am he the beginning and the end, the redeemer of the world first thing he wants martin to know about himself i having accomplished and finished the will of him, whose i am even the father concerning me.


00:31:03
Having done this that i might subdue all things unto myself first thing i want you to know, i i know the end from the beginning and i do the will of the father.

00:31:12
I retain now all power because of what i have done.
I have all power even to the destroying of satan and his works at the end of the world.


00:31:21
The last great day of judgment, which i shall pass upon the inhabitants thereof now.
This is where martin martin might start thinking about judgment day.
He might start thinking about his own.

Like oh shoot, yeah, that's right because the lord says i will judge every man according to his works and the deeds which he has done and surely every man must repent or suffer.
That might be the the tagline of section 19.
, you must repent or you will suffer for i, god am endless and i don't i do not right.

I revoke not the judgments which i shall pass, martin.
What i what i judge it will happen.
I don't revoke my judgments at judgment day, but woe shall go forth and weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth yay to those who are found.

On my left hand, i laugh because that's what martin was afraid of i've done so much dumb stuff that this is going to be me he's describing me, but then the lord explains.
Ah let me tell you what i mean by that i say eternal.
I say endless to work upon your heart, martin, i'm letting you into an apostolic secret.


00:32:19
He says in verse eight i'll, explain to you what i tell my apostles that uh, that i am endless, that this is my punishment right.
That's all i'm saying it will come to an end.
There is hope for even those who do not repent actually to some degree here, but now you don't want that so verse, 13.

Martin, wherefore.
I command you to repent, so you don't suffer.

00:32:45
I command you to repent and keep the commandments which you have received by the hand of my servant, joseph smith, jr in my name uh, those commandments would have would have well consistently been sin.

Six section: five repent come humble yourself before the lord and now at this point right now we're talking about the publication of the book of mormon.
It says verse 14 and it's by my almighty power, you've received them and then i i imagine him pulling martin in a little closer, almost forehead to forehead here.
Just saying martin, i command you to repent repent, lest i smite you by the rod of my mouth and by my wrath and by my anger and your sufferings be sore.


00:33:25
How sore you know, not how exquisite you know not yea how hard to bear you have.
No idea right for behold, i god have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent.

00:41:32
You have to stop here and say what was martin's sin, what what is bringing this out and as we understand the context we understand here that martin is struggling and keeping his covenant his covenant to help this work come forth, he's the only guy who can do It uh the way that uh one of the printer's assistants talked about.

He said.
Martin harris was the only spoke in the wheel.

00:34:01
He was the only one that could make this happen and here's jesus saying.


00:34:04
I know how hard it is to do the will of god.


00:34:51

Martin trust me, and if you don't repent of your desires, to pull back from doing god's, will that's not going to end well.

00:34:16
I've suffered for all who will repent and if they don't repent, they must suffer even as i 17.

then verse.
18.
Here's here's this gem of an insight into christ's soul.


00:34:28
This suffering, which suffering caused myself, even god, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain and to bleed at every poor and to suffer both body and spirit.
This was a physical suffering and a spiritual suffering, and i would that i might not drink the bitter cup and shrink martin.

00:34:48
I know what it's like to not want to do the will of god.



00:34:51

I didn't want to drink it, let that just sink into martin's.
Soul for a second right and then verse 19, nevertheless glory be to the father and i partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men from from gethsemane to the cross he partook of the cup, and then he looks back at martin in the eyes right Saying wherefore, i command you again to repent, there's no excuses, lest i humble you with my almighty power and that you confess your sins lest you suffer these punishments, of which i have spoken, the punishments that come to those who break their covenants, the punishments that come To those who do not repent of their selfishness right and then he says, lest you suffer these punishments of which i have spoken, of which in the smallest degree, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time i withdrew my spirit.
I can't imagine he's talking about any other time than the moment.

Martin thought he lost his soul because he let the manuscript go right.

00:35:52
Do you remember how you felt? Do you remember when there was a complete withdrawal of the spirit of god and you felt like there was no hope for you.
Do you remember that that's the least bit of what i'm talking about martin, that you put your big toe yeah, you just put your tiny toe in the garden of gethsemane.

You've got a tiny taste of that.

00:36:11
I find this so fascinating.
That uh, i hear the lord saying this uh martin, the salvation of other people, is worth sacrificing for it's so interesting that the lord is drawing a parallel here between his own atoning sacrifice and martin's potential sacrifice.

It's only a potential sacrifice at this point of his farm right now, if it wasn't jesus making this comparison, we might feel like this is a little inappropriate to compare martin's little human sacrifice with jesus's incomparable atoning sacrifice right, but jesus is the one making the comparison Here right saying: well, i hear the lord saying our sacrifices are massively different on scale and scope.
Yes, but they are not different in kind.
They are not different in kind.

That's important here both of our sacrifices are made so that other people can receive salvation right.
Look in verse, 26, he says again: i command thee, thou shalt not covet thine own property, speaking of his farm, but impart it freely to the printing of the book of mormon, which contains the truth and the word of god.
Why? Why, what's so important about the book of mormon? He says in verse 27, which is my word to the gentile and that it soon may also go to the jew of whom the lamanites are a remnant that they may believe the gospel and look not for a messiah to come who's already come.

They need the book of mormon, they need the salvation that will come as they accept christ from this text.
If you don't do this, martin, if you don't drink your bitter cup, the salvation of other people is on the line here.
This is what draws out in jesus christ.




00:38:58


This is what draws out his first 10.
His only first hand account of his atoning sacrifice.

00:37:54


00:23:29

The only thing that could get him to pull out this trump card is the book of mormon and the salvation of other people.


00:38:02
That was on the line here.
I find that so remarkable and i think maybe then perhaps it's not inappropriate for us to make the same comparison with other people who sacrifice for the salvation of others right.


00:38:15

Think of missionaries elder holland's, given a great talk about missionaries and the atonement right saying sacrificing for the salvation of other people is not always easy right, uh think about uh.

You know moms and dads who sacrifice so much to try to help their kids, make the right choices to receive christ right is it about them? Is that kind of atonement like absolutely on its own, on its own scale, right think about those who serve in church callings, those who serve in the temple? Are they sacrificing for the salvation of others, time and talents and energy? Yes, yes, anything you do to sacrifice, for the salvation of others is a is a type and shadow of the atonement of jesus christ.


00:50:06




00:38:58


I might have thought that was an inappropriate comparison to make, but then jesus makes it here when a farm was on the line, and he says that's.
I know what that's like man, scott, that was just powerful, really was when the lord says in verse, 15.

Lest i smite you by my wrath, mine, anger and your sufferings be sore, i wanted to to read something from elder maxwell.

00:39:22
Sometimes we read that word anger and we think of it as human anger right.
The way that someone offends me - and i flip right, i get upset and i get angry here's what elder maxwell said.

He said we we do this simply because we are so often angry at a wrong done to us.

00:39:40
We assume this is how it works.
In god's anger, we assume the same about god's anger.

He says no god's love for us is perfect, and his desire for our happiness is so deep that his anger is kindled.

00:39:54
This signals much more than we realize god's anger is not kindled because we have harmed him, but but because we have harmed ourselves, you have martin, i'm angry, because if you don't, if you don't go through with this, it's going to hurt you, and that makes me Angry the pain you are going to suffer is going to hurt a lot of people who are not going to get the book right um.
So when i, after reading elder maxwell's quote when i see anger, i think oh, the lord's mad at someone for hurting themselves.

Right he's not mad that they heard him he's saying: oh, i don't want to hurt yourself and i love the way you you took this into a mentor type relationship, because i picture myself with my own children.

00:40:44
You know putting arm around them.
Let's talk about decisions here for a minute: let's talk about choices here for a minute.

This section comes out of love, a sheer love for martin harris um and the lord coming to his level and saying i get it.

00:40:59
I understand you know i like how you said forehead to forehead.

00:41:03
Listen to me.

I have always loved verse 16 for lots of reasons, but for behold i god has suffered these things for all and look at the motive.
The reason that they might not suffer.

00:41:18
I mean that's just what you're talking about is this all came out of love and care, the option was they suffer or i suffer.

I suffered these things that they might not suffer if they would repent and he preferred suffering himself than to see us suffer and another thing that i don't know when you've had a spiritual insider experience.
If you're like me, you can tell people where you were, and i was in the marriott center on in october 29th of 1989 and elder henry b eyring came and gave a talk called come unto christ and he talked about being on a ship.
I think, with with elder tuttle, theodore tuttle and and being taught by him and going through section 19.

and there's just something that uh i could tell i bet even today, i could get you within a couple of rows of where i was sitting, because i remember It so well when, when pres now, president eyring said that somehow i'd gotten into my mind that the choice was between repenting or not repenting, and the choice here was repent or suffer.

00:42:31
I i don't remember much of the rest of the talk that had such an impression on me and it's in his book now i just looked it up again to draw closer to god.

00:42:42
The talk was called come unto christ, but that idea of postponing repentance suddenly he talks about became.

Don't ever do that.
It's the choice is not repent or not.
It's repent or suffer, and then the kind of suffering the savior described.

That's more of an application for all of us, perhaps than for martin, but i will never forget that talk and it's one of the reasons why this section is so one of my favorites and then also scott, that in verse 18 we only have a few places In scripture, as i understand it, where we we have the idea of jesus bleeding at every pore, it's here, it's in luke and king benjamin mentions it too right and isn't that that's it that's right! That's right, yeah, some wonder if luke 22 is uh being metaphorical.
You know, and then here he says not metaphorical yeah, so yeah.
Thank you for this whole motive of love and care behind this, i think, makes us read it in a more beautiful tender way.

Isn't it interesting connecting that with uh if we connect that back with section 18 when he said, if you want to call people to repentance, you got to have faith, hope and charity boy.
Do you see jesus doing that modeling that here in section 19.
? Oh he's not pulling back on the call to repentance at all, but boy is it? Is it just layered with with love and compassion and empathy beautiful? So all of this reminds me of alma 42, where corianton alma is calling corianton to repentance and he's teaching him about the punishment of the sinner.


00:44:26
If you guys remember it's uh, i'm going to hurry and go there.

00:44:29
Corianton alma says i perceive there is somewhat more, which doth worry your mind, which you cannot understand, which is concerning the justice of god in the punishment of the sinner, and he goes on to explain the plan of salvation very similar to section 19 verse 17, where The lord says: if they would not repent, they must suffer even as i i can see one of my teenagers saying well, that sounds harsh.
That sounds terrible it in that.

You know what alma says about corianton you're you're concerned about the justice of god in the punishment of the sinner and what we have to remember, i think, is we signed up for this.
We signed up for a two option plan the lord's, not saying you must suffer, because i want you to he's saying: that's the only other option: either you repent or you take door number two, that's those are your two options and i want you to choose door Number one martin and everybody else.
I want you to choose repentance, so you don't have to suffer.

I don't want you to suffer where you might read verse 17 and go wow.

00:45:39
The lord's really upset he's not.
This is a.

I don't want you to suffer.

00:45:38
This comes out of pure love.
Don't you don't want to go down that path? I promise you don't want to go down a path.

Take this path.
Take this path, there's an important i think theological point to make here and that is that uh yeah! God is not the one that's gon na actually do the punishing uh the punishment, if you, if you read carefully book of mormon uh here in section 19, where he says uh that the punishment remember when you tasted it.
When i withdrew remember when i withdrew my spirit, the book of mormon is very, very big about this.

Alma 42 is a good, a good spot.
Uh mosiah 16 abanadai hits this lehigh hits this jacob hits.
This is that when you are living in a fallen realm that the devil has claim on you, the devil has claim on you and, if god does nothing, then your default position is to be in the power of the devil forever.


00:46:38
But god came right, alma 42.
He says that i came into the world: god himself would come to the world to get us out of that situation, so the the justice of of god, uh in in uh, punishing a sinner is totally backward.
There's no justice of god in punishment.


00:46:57
Justice is going to play out.
If god does nothing, if god does nothing, then satan will claim us, but if god does something, which is what he's describing here in verse, 16 i came to the world.
I suffered the satanic subjection.

I suffered the curse of the law so that you wouldn't you would have a way to escape the satanic, subjection and you'll be able to come into the kingdom of god uh.
I am the way right - and we've mentioned in section 76 later on the lord's going to say those who don't repent will need to be in satan's power.


00:47:30

They will be in his power until the end of the thousand-year millennium.


00:47:34
Then i will still redeem them from that.
They will have paid their sins, they will have become clean, having paid for their own sins and they will inherit a celestial kingdom.
So yeah we got to make sure we don't get that backwards.

That god is like going up, you know he's making a list he's, checking it twice, and if we don't, if we don't measure up boy he's going to get us, it's the exact opposite uh we are in a pickle thanks to the fall.

00:47:57
We are in a situation where satan has just claimed upon our souls, and jesus has intervened mercifully on our behalf, and if we will repent, then we can access the grace of what he has done and be part of his kingdom take upon ourselves his name so That we are now no longer in satan's power.


00:47:30

He no longer has a just claim upon our souls, so i mean this is a merciful act.

This is not threatening.

00:48:22
Just a couple of days ago, my kids were talking about a meme somebody sent them or something just kind of mocking religion.
Why would jesus create us so that if we don't follow him, he can punish us and uh? What you just said here is: that's not how it works at all.

He he withdrew his spirit and then we're left to uh the influence of the adversary.
If you read 2nd nephi 9 jacob says you want to know what would happen if jesus never came, you want to know you, can you can get it in 259? I'll tell you what happens if he never comes.

00:48:56
He says if the flesh should rise.

No more! Our spirits must become subject to that angel who fell before the presence of the eternal god and became the devil to rise.
No more, our spirits must become like unto him right and we become devils angels to a devil shut out from the presence of god forever.

00:49:15
That's what we signed up for without we signed up for a fall without an atonement.

You can see how much we trusted the lord in coming here.

00:49:23
So that's awesome, hank, that's! Maybe the most clear description of the book of mormon like this is bad.

00:49:28
If jesus doesn't come, this is bad uh, but then, then think about in in the context of that back to section 19 verse 3.


00:49:34
As a result of jesus, doing the will of the father going through with his atoning sacrifice, look what he says he says now.
I retain all power even to the destroying of satan and his works through his atoning sacrifice.


00:23:29

He has gained the power to destroy satan's kingdom and to bring the kingdom of god here.


00:49:56
This is where this whole plan is going right is to bring the kingdom of god to earth and kick satan out and to really release us from his power.

00:50:03
This is this is the whole context of the atonement of jesus christ.


00:50:06




00:38:58


I mean i love section 19.

Before but i love it even yeah i'll, never fix i'll, never forget scott, the image of jesus with his arm around martin forehead to forehead.
Listen to me, brother, listen to me and the way he starts.
The section says: i'm serious right.

This is me talking to you.
This isn't joseph.
This is me talking to you and i you've really got to hear me.

It's almost like joseph steps aside and lets martin and the lord have a private conversation that the lord could have with any one of us.
I look at um, i look at verse 23, which was actually a youth theme a couple of years ago and uh for those of you who are listening and not watching.
Have you ever seen anybody do the kind of gesture of taking two fingers and pointing at their eyes and then pointing at your eyes the i've got my eyes on you gesture and then the opposite, and this never happens to hang.

But it happens to me when my students aren't paying attention, i can point at them and do the opposite, hey you look at me and i feel like verse.
23 is a hey.
Look at me.

Look at the me my my me in there learn of me.

00:51:20
Listen to my words, walk, listen to all think of all the words martin's been hearing from everybody else.

00:51:28
Learn of me.

Listen to my words, walk in the meekness of my spirit and you shall have peace in me and when i think of martin and the decisions he had to make about mortgaging his farm um wanting to take the characters to charles anthon.
All these things it to me, this kind of comes the lord saying, martin one more time, i'm gon na tell you, keep it right here.
Look at me.

This is where you will find peace, which is another reason.
I love section 19 that verse right there.
I feel so blessed to be here because now i've got not just scott's image of of with the lord, with his forehead to forehead with martin harris.

But now he's got the gestures of martin, because martin's got lucy lucy harris over here.
Yelling at him he's got the printers yelling at him over here and he's looking left and right, and the lord's like martin right here right here.
Just with me, focus here brother focus here that is so good and then and to follow that up with verse.

24 right, john, the very first thing.
I want you to learn of me if, in case you missed it uh i came by the will of the father, and i do his will lesson number one uh from beginning to end.
I do god's, will uh that's okay! This is so, and it's like first thing out of his mouth when he appeared to the uh in the new world to the righteous, not just the late nephites, because lamanites were there, but when he appeared to the righteous first thing out of his mouth and elder Holland talked about it, you know i'm the light, i'm jesus christ, whom the prophet's testified, will come into the world and the light and life the world, and i have done the will of the father from the beginning and elder holland says: what's the thing he wants To tell us about himself, and the one thing he wants to tell us is i've done the will of the father from the beginning.


00:53:15

00:53:07
That might be jesus's motto.
If, if that's okay to say, i think not my will, but thy will be done and that's what he's inviting martin to do here, i know your will.
Martin do god's will sell the farm buddy.


00:53:29
Doesn't that remind you of that? Lord of the rings moment where frodo says to to gandalf.
I wish this had never happened to me right.
I wish the ring had never come to me and he said so do all who live to see such times right, but you almost see martin going.

I i just want to be a normal farmer with a normal situation and you know, and the lord's saying don't don't covet that don't covet that well think of think of joseph smith too.
I all i wanted to know was what church to join.
You know.

That's! That's what i and uh look at the domino effect and the persecution and months in jail and everything else and uh.
That's only one side of it, of course, but - and i love the way - the excitement with the lord - how he finishes this section right he's like isn't this wonderful martin? Isn't this wonderful? I still got him.
I still got his arm around him in my head.


00:54:26
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