Using food restriction and tons of steady-state cardio and you just end up skinnier and smaller yeah and I realized at some point.
It's called bodybuilding for a reason right, sure, not body shrinking, and that was the great thing about working with Flex.
Is that we didn't do any steady-state cardio and he drove food like crazy and we used to add a bodybuilding training, hypertrophy workouts, to create the calorie deficit? That's my otherwise! He created either by restriction or a combination of restriction and too much steady-state cardio mmm.
It's exactly the wrong message: yeah, because you've got to think your body's gon na spawn to the stimulus provided right and, if you're, a marathon runner, you're gon na.
Look like a marathon runner.
If you're a sprinter, you look like a sprinter and so a bodybuilder needs to figure out.
I can't do both because I'm sending mixed signals to my body.
I can't not feed it and then do a ton of cardio, because the cardio says well god.
If I want to get good at this forty minutes or an hour or two hours a day on the treadmill, I got ta get rid of this muscle because it's heavy it has a high oxygen demand.
It has a high water demand.
I got ta get rid of this muscle.
It's not efficient for me to do this task that you're asking me to do, and the whole goal really is to create a calorie deficit right right.
Can we create that by doing the hip training under load or the bodybuilding type of training and burning the same number of calories with a very different message, its stimulating the kinds of hormones and the insulin, sensitivity and the muscle protein synthesis and the growth hormone? And the testosterone and all those things that are stimulating, you know the adaptivity, the growth of muscle as opposed to the opposite effect.
You have to take your body somewhere, it hasn't been before, and that progressively is has to be consistently.
You know either more weight more pounds per hour, shorter rest periods, whatever it takes to stimulate the growth , hey my friend, welcome back, it's Mike Munsell with high intensity health calm. 00:01:59
As always, I'm so excited that you were here.
I appreciate you tuning in subscribing this chat with standing.
Efforting is awesome.
I would suggest getting out a pen and paper because he's gon na share a lot of knowledge bombs.
So, if you're interested in building more muscle learning how to burn fat better, how to recover better from your exercise and how to have better performance, while you work out we're gon na cover, all that and more in this show, which is brought to you by butcher Box comm, you see a stand, is gon na talk about very soon meat quality, the types of meat that you're getting mostly beef, he's really big and a beef due to the carnitine and the type of amino acids that the beef Garner's to us.
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Last summer and it they had to shut it down early because of that, so there's a little button here that you can click or the link below this or, if you're, listening and driving right now, you can go to high intensity of comp or chess free bacon With that friends, let's head back into it with Stan, do you grew up in Washington or Oregon Portland Oregon, okay, born and raised with the University of Oregon, and then I moved up here after I left Oregon and was here for like 15 years mmm working and What have you and then when? Finally, I wasn't tied down to a house or a job we decided to chase the Sun yeah in Vegas was the most affordable place to live right.
She moved in over 70, so we've been there about six years, okay, so twelve! I think yeah 2011 mm-hmm right in there and you said you got your pro card and bodybuilding just like 10 years ago, 2009, okay, yeah sure in your 40s yeah good for you, that's so amazing yeah! Well, I kind of had a comeback.
I could peed it all through my teens and late 80s early 90s and then finally, I said I got a good job cuz.
This isn't paying any bills yeah, and so I went to work and dumped the same amount of intensity and energy into work, as I did into bodybuilding and created a some very successful companies.
Oh three different multi-million dollar companies over the course of ten year period, and then I had time and I had money yeah and I had my old desire and passion to be a pro bodybuilder.
Hey hey, so I I dove in had headstrong and that's why I flew down to Californian, lived there for months and trained with flex wheeler to try and get my pro card.
That was yes, so many yeah and just chased the dream yeah. 00:05:29
However, you know lucrative, that was, there wasn't and is a different issue, but it was.
It was just a passion, good mine, yeah.
You learned a lot from that, probably what you wanted to have into, but like growing up like flex, wheeler Ronnie Coleman, Lee Priest, I mean these were guys like that.
I like, when I was 14 years old, I started just up.
This was right when bodybuilding.
com was coming on the forums.
You probably remember that back of the day, yeah um, but I grew up like idolizing those guys - and I know some of them like Kevin.
The bro me, I think, he's back competing again.
Yeah i working up and getting ready for the cold Brit has come back to the Olympian three years ago.
Yeah nice, it's kind of what spawned flex wanting to give it a try as well, so he's coming back to flex already competed in the Olympia.
Okay, he came back in it was the men's classic bodybuilding.
He had to diet all the way down to 210 pounds where he used to compete around 250, but he was 52 at the time.
You know it was just last year, Wow and so, and he had some health issues with a kidney replacement.
Okay, and so we had to monitor that all along and as it turns out, we fed him plenty of salts around that program and his creatinine levels went down.
Hmm and his kidney doctor was like what are you doing yeah.
He was so healthy, yeah and I think primarily he had lost 15 pounds of fat and was doing cardio daily. 00:06:38
You know or some sort of exercise now I always think that's the driver of the health, at least all the initial.
You know health improvements, but the sodium really helped him with his energy, and it did seem to keep you know his kidney healthy, too hey.
So, ironically, you would take just the opposite or you'd be told right, opposite yeah.
Was he honest with him that he was eating that much salt that you recommend? I know you're a high salt guy yeah he was and he was just kind of just salting to taste.
We didn't, we didn't go real aggressive.
I didn't put a gram amount on it.
He just made sure to salt every meal that he ate throughout the day.
Then he you know that was he had some.
I was gon na think to myself.
That was probably it.
I was we're the only health issue that he had throughout the whole the whole prep yeah. 00:07:27
It was just that he was concerned about the kidney in his.
We went in and had three blood tests and had him he had a kidney specialist working with him.
So it was, I think it was a successful venture.
The very last minute he was like 214 pounds, the moat good morning.
He woke up, but he had to weigh in oh wow and he had to be at 210 yeah, and so we took a mild diuretic.
Yeah and mild to his body with his compromised kidney function drew too much water out of him and he ended up at 203 that evening, when he weighed in 214 to 203 big swing the next day on stage he hadn't gained his weight back.
He was still 203 kind of black flat, no pump he's just he was so does just discouraged yeah he just kept pulling so he you know he just fed up, but three days after you know, he was just full and rocked out.
Yeah and three days before we did a photo shoot. 00:08:20
Fortunately, we have a ton of great shots of him and he was looked amazing.
You know, and his body changes like that his gift is his genetic gift for putting on muscle and getting yeah.
It was incredible.
Yeah his biceps his shoulders his legs and he's really got a nice physique, yeah yeah ridiculous.
So the timing of that I mean I've had aspirations to do a show. 00:08:40
I'm not a very big guy, you know, but it seems like there's a very you have to time the salt in the water and everything or else you know like you said you can step on the stage.
Look flat or you know it's got ta be tough.
We made a big mistake because I don't pull that out of anybody's program now with a problem.
Is that people get to a couple days out and they're really not lean enough? They just didn't lose the body fat mm-hm, and so they try and do something to manipulate water thinking, that's going to optimize their their look onstage and they end up looking worse.
They end up with the big bloated stomach and they might get some veins and their forearms as a result, but I don't do that anymore, not even with women.
I don't manipulate water, I don't I don't take salt out.
I just try and get them into shape sooner and let them I've just found that when I can keep them healthy that their body composition improves more than it would.
If I tried to drain them to hydrate them, carb deplete them all of that stuff yeah.
If I can keep their metabolism fired up, which is hard to do when you're on egg whites and Rockley, it's really hard to do you know, just as you know too much muscle meat or too much protein.
You know that can tend to kind of slow the metabolism, and this is what what this happened to these women. 00:09:58
This has been going on since the 80s.
I've been training females for competition since the 1980s, and it was the same thing that we all learned way way back then is going on tenfold now, because you've got Instagram and everything yes, and it just seems it's commonplace for them to be on these twelve hundred Calorie diets and eating egg whites, white fish or boneless skinless chicken breast with as much broccoli as they can fill their stomach with or asparagus and that's their that's their diet plan and restricting salt yeah and they just become emaciated yeah.
They just they're.
You go backstage and look and they're just just tiny little and they almost look like little teenager yeah, because they'd lost all their muscle tissue, their bony their faces are sunk in it's, not a good look right and even the head of the NPC, the women.
I think it's sandy Williamson used to be sand urine alley back when I knew her she'll say at all of these meetings for the girls when they come in to talk about the show, she'll say, look continuing to you know, dehydrate and the Macy, H or self Is not going to improve your placings? If you want to get better, you need to add muscle, and but nobody listens, they just keep dieting harder and harder and harder.
They look at the scale and the lighter and lighter and lighter they are.
That's going to reflect in better placings on the stage.
That's not what happens right.
They just look all weathered and worn out yeah it's unfortunate, because if you feed them they can be full and have nice shape and still lean and muscular.
But you have to feed them mm-hmm, so part of that you think, or is the reduction in resting metabolic rate because their calorie restrictive that's a huge piece, yeah yeah.
Of course, you know the metabolism is going to slow down significantly and then part of its that they're afraid of things that are going to improve metabolism 3 in particular, salt is going to.
You know dramatically improve metabolism fruit, fructose yeah is going to dramatically improve metabolism.
Just the the fructose for the liver in particular, and they can eat a decent amount of that they attend up doing too much carbon.
They tend to do too much carbohydrate restriction, which slows metabolism and their energy levels and the salt iodine another huge one.
A lot of these women end up with greater yeah yeah.
The same thing happens with pro fighters or men who are prepping for powerlifting competitions and cutting a lot of water.
They end up with soreness in there they end up with neck soreness really, and they don't know what it is until I say where is it and they point and that's that's your thyroid.
Your iodine deficient.
You just sweat it out all your iodine.
This happens to women as well.
You introduce a little bit iodine, introduce a little bit of salt, introduce a little bit of fruit and their life changes almost overnight and the fourth piece, which is the one that seems to be so controversial.
For some reason I don't know is that, rather than getting this restrictive protein source, they need protein from some yeah.
Why get it from a whey isolate or an egg white or almond skinless, chicken or boneless skinless chicken, which is so nutrient depleted yeah? I introduced red meat, a lean red meat, a top sirloin steak.
You know, and now you've got iron b12 zinc, magnesium, creating creatine, all of it.
Yeah and all of a sudden they've got come to life yeah.
Those four things, calcium included, being a real important one.
In terms of stimulating metabolism, as well as all the other benefits you throw those things in there and their life changes overnight, but everybody's so afraid those things nobody eats fruit, preppin, even no nobody eats red meat rather than a competition.
You know and carbs - oh my god, no carbs, but when you do that their life changes and, more importantly than that, it's healthy and it's sustainable yeah.
So now, instead of having this depleted state and ending up with this huge rebound, you know the edema.
That comes the water retention, the fat gain that that whole rebound thing and they'll put on 20 pounds within a few days after a show if they go ballistic with the eating, which typically happens and get depressed - and I usually get them, then that's when they come To me, because they tried everything and they're, like you, don't know, what's more well, they're repped yeah, that their friend calls me because they're in the hospital suffering from all these problems, the you know the the depletion problems and then we got to start over from scratch And you know the first thing you got ta do is get through this mental block and I have that problem now with a lot of the women that I train and I put them on this diet and they're like oh, I can't eat that and I can't Eat that - and I can't eat that yet you've got these horrific gut issues and gas and bloating and digestion problems from eating.
What you are you know, people's biases are so strong, they are so strong and so pervasive and the coaches just haven't.
They seem to focus on macros yeah, very macro focused all the focus has been on macros and if it fits your macros and not the micros, and I understand why, because there's only three macros, it's not too hard to.
You know to educate yourself about those right, but the micronutrients and how they interact and what foods they're in and how important they are.
That's a whole nother, as you know, field of study that most people just don't take the time or energy to to educate themselves.
On or maybe haven't been experienced or exposed to it sure, because I spent you know my entire life using sleep, food and training, to manipulate body composition both for performance and for yeah, well on a strength and size n sure and on a body fat.
You know four percent on stage I've done both and trying to hold on to muscle tissue while dieting and then trying to you know have optimum strength. 00:15:46
And you know: I've just discovered over the years that there are certain things that that make that easier and harder and and more successful and less and I've done it all myself.
I've done the dirty books mm-hmm.
You know the gallon of milk a day yeah.
You know the weight gainer yeah and I put on some weight.
You know with the the gainers feel 2500 loaded with zero sucrose, glucose, maltose dextrose and the headaches and the stomachaches that come with that and the diarrhea I've done the dirty books, I've gotten as big as I possibly could get. 00:16:18
You know for me for my body.
Being a small 135 pound guy in college, I got up to north of 300 pounds Wow and I wasn't necessarily any stronger than I was at 270.
Hmm, that's interesting, but I had all these associated side effects right.
You know, with the all the things that was trying to do to get there, and then I dyed it down to under 220 and not been any leaner than I was able to get at 245 doing it.
Two completely different things: hmm hiding down to 220 using food restriction and tons of steady-state cardio, and you just end up skinnier and smaller yeah, and I realized at some point.
It's called body building for a reason right sure, not body shrinking.
And that was the great thing about working with flex is that we didn't do any steady-state cardio and he drove food like crazy and we used to add a body building training, hypertrophy workouts, to create the calorie deficit that might otherwise be created either by restriction or A combination restriction and too much steady-state cardio.
Hmm, it's exactly the wrong message: yeah, because you've got to think your body's gon na respond to the stimulus provided right and, if you're, a marathon runner, you're gon na look like a marathon runner and if you're sprinting look like a sprinter and so a bodybuilder needs To figure out, I can't do both because I'm sending mixed signals to my body and I can't not feed it and then do a ton of cardio, because the cardio says what kind of I want to get good at this forty minutes or an hour or two Hours a day on the treadmill, I got to get rid of this muscle because it's heavy it has a high oxygen demand.
It has a high water demand.
I got to get rid of this muscle.
It's not efficient for me to do this task.
That you're asking me to do and the whole goal really is to create a calorie deficit right right look.
Can we create that by doing the hip training under load or the bodybuilding type of training and burning the same number of calories with a very different message? It's stimulating the kinds of hormones and the insulin, sensitivity and the muscle, protein synthesis and the growth hormone and the testosterone and all those things that are stimulating.
You know the adapt to the growth of muscle as opposed to the opposite effect and shrinking the body.
You know so once I was able to determine you know if to be too tart, focusing my attention on just holding on to muscle and getting rid of fat and utilizing those diet, techniques and training techniques.
I'm said we got a pro card Wow, you know with the same, you know, body that I had in the 90s yeah but the same body weight, but I held on to so much more muscle, mm-hmm when I came back and did it with Flex learned a Lot from that experience, so his workouts, so he didn't do any cardio because, like standard bodybuilders, would you like to 60-minute sessions right but you're, saying so? Yeah we're his workouts to a day in the prep period.
Was that more kind of like CrossFit aerobic base like more high volume, it was pretty high volume yeah, it wasn't quite as much CrossFit it was.
It was still pretty heavy weights mm-hmm, maybe 20 repetitions to be on the high end mm-hmm and that's still a pretty good hypertrophy phase.
You know some people, like you, know the eight to twelve range.
You can grow just as well at five mm-hmm, but the loads tend to not.
Let you recover as fast is what I discovered, because I've done both hmm powerlifting in bodybuilding yeah and you can grow it.
You can grow it.
Ten reps, you can grow.
Twenty reps, but the five reps, but at each it each rep range.
You need to get yourself within about a rep of failure.
It has to be an intensity component.
If you're constantly, you know just lifting an 80 percent of your your capacity, then the body's has no stimulus to adapt.
I've said that you have to take your body somewhere, it hasn't been before, and that progressively is has to be consistently.
You know either more weight.
More pounds per hour, shorter rest periods, whatever it takes to stimulate the growth and so flex like the 20s for legs, in particular.
Hmm and another thing that it did is.
It was incredible for the cardiovascular conditioning and also that epoch that excess post-exercise oxygen consumption, which went on for hours when we get done with a workout leg workout. 00:20:25
It was almost euphoric for four or five hours after you're done training.
If you were properly hydrating yourself in feeding it was, it was pretty you for it and the endorphins it's kind of, like maybe yeah, and so I spread that word as part of my program now, particularly with like CrossFitters, mm-hmm or MMA professional MMA fighters.
People who train twice a day bodybuilders as I proposed, is the optimal way to do hypertrophy training, and these are two one-hour sessions.
This is like 40 minutes in the morning.
Thirty minutes at night.
Mmm, because you don't want to create too much fatigue, sure just provide a stimulus and let your body adapt.
So for those folks, I've had great results with right after the morning session, replacing everything that was burned out, burned off, which is glycogen, sodium and water, and so I'll feed them glycogen and in what I've seen from the research, and I included in my vertical diet.
In the form of dextrose and fructose, because the two together and the studies showed it was in a two to one ratio, two to two dextrose to one fructose showed that it would shuttle faster and you could uptake more when it was what they call like.
A cyclic desk Dexter and a couple types of carbohydrates sure and then add the salt to it and then throw the water in there and a little trick that that George Lockhart uses he's the nutritionist and water cut guy for the UFC that helped John Jones and Conor McGregor and cyborg yeah he's just amazing and probably a hundred other UFC athletes.
Sure a few years back, I had an MMA fighter that was training for a show and I called George up and I say: would you mind coming out? I flew him out to the house and paid him to come help me because I've done water cuts for power lifters for years, yeah, almost every record holder in the currently current record holder in the world.
I've done water cuts for them and I was really comfortable with that in terms of one rep max yeah.
But how do you train a fighter to drop weight and put it back on and maintain their cardiovascular, fitness yeah? That's a huge component totally, and so I had George come out, and that was one of the big things we took away from this whole thing: one not to put him in a sauna because it just cooks them from the inside out.
They completely lose their cardiovascular.
Fitness interesting yeah it just they just don't recover from that, so and and also not to deplete them for too long mm-hmm, don't pull sodium for too long or water it's best.
If you can get him to drop that weight in about 48 hours mmm and have them try and get into you know the water cut weight about 30 days in advance, so they train at this 10 pound or 15 pound or whatever it is.
This pre weight cut weight and then you drop it in 48 hours like in the little sodium load, little water load, pull it out, get them on the scale yeah and then reintroduce the refeed of this.
What we call them - and we used that - then he used that that blend and it's it's pretty awesome when they, when you come back for your second bout, yeah, your stamina, your endurance, your your recovery, everything is much much improved.
You can you get through that? Second, workout and they're: just your eyes were this big and because they don't hit the wall yeah and we no longer let him use stimulants, no caffeine, interesting, that's cool.
I have an approach.
Yeah and I you know.
I proposed that to all of the athletes that I train now, because I've seen what a detrimental effect it has on digestion gut health.
I've used the word adrenal fatigue, oh my god.
It's not a scientific term that hasn't been proven yeah, but, generally speaking, your adrenals are impacted by stimulus yeah.
There would be caffeine or a Federer nor phentermine or whatever people want to take to try and stimulate metabolism and increase body temperature. 00:24:05
It has a you know: the body's homeostatic there's a feedback loop yeah.
If it says hey, here's some cortisol for you, you know and adrenaline affects your digestion.
Negatively, obviously affects your sleep.
It affects your immune system, shrinks the lymph.
So now you don't have your lymphatic systems not working effectively to help with your immune system, and so we eliminate coffee, mainly because of all those negative effects, but also because there's a reason why you need it.
You need coffee because yeah yeah, you know coffee is reactive, not proactive.
It's sick care, not health care.
It's addressing the symptoms, not the problem, as we know it's common in in medicine.
So why do you need the coffee? I don't have any energy.
Why don't you have any energy and then you just go down the list.
Like you said, their sleep is horrible and it might be apnea, but something as simple as a as a CPAP could is that common? You can't light a building quite a bit.
It's the number one thing I talk about, it's the very first thing in my program that I addressed and with a reference articles and and I'm how important it is a whole list of sleep hygiene methods.
So they can, you know, get the room dark, whether they have to use blackout blinds the level of noise.
All the athletes that I train is the first thing that I address is: how is your sleep? Are you tired? Do you snore and we try and fix that immediately, even going so far as to suggest that they get on Craigslist and buy a CPAP, because they're 200 bucks yeah, because it might take you months and $ 2,000 to get through the process to get a doctor? Particularly if you're overseas socialized medicine, Canada, the UK, I get feedback from people all over the world like they're, not easy to get here.
And if I go in to my doctor and I don't have severe sleep apnea, they just tell me to lose weight and how do you tell a power lifter or a strongman? You know to lose weight sure.
So what about mouth taping for those folks? Have you tried that personally, no I've looked at your stuff at first okay, so I have some here's.
Some sound effects I'll give to you just yeah yeah, have to i've even actually gone into the dentist and had a one of those mouthpieces made and i'm still playing with getting comfortable with that yeah, and i don't know if that seems like they kind of affect Your jaw, it's like it's a little, it's a little uncomfortable, but you know so is the CPAP.
When you go to use it yeah and it doesn't necessarily work for severe sleep, apnea yeah, which tends to be worse than that has your neck.
It's then thicker mm-hmm, the crowding will occur and most of the guys I work with her big thick necks.
Is that just from trap movement I mean what just you know, squatting and everything I just the load yeah, it did load yeah, it's the load and I love loading yeah.
You have to load to get to get strong, yeah yeah.
If you get the start central nervous system, gosh, there's so much here, I want to get pull up, pull apart, but let's go in the order of sequence II mentioned so after you would lift with Flex.
You know you were to stab you for you.
Do you think that um bodybuilders people that are shaped like power, lifters people that are pretty intense, are they chasing that euphoria? Is it body dysmorphia light like what's driving people I mean and the reason why I'm asking this, because it seems that some people just can't get the motivation to like go to the gym yeah. 00:27:13
Have you found like a common mental? If I knew the answer to that yeah the motivation, the answer and, of course I've always been driven, I'm type-a doesn't matter what I'm doing them, I'm just in it yeah and here's the reason why all this stuff that we're talking about health weight loss, anything anybody Wanted to wants to change, it requires some consistency.
I've said in my rants before that all diets work when they're strictly adhered to, and you know the best diet is the one you'll follow and the best exercise is the one you'll.
Do I'm trying to prescribe something? That's the hardest thing about all these diets is sometimes they just aren't consistent with that individuals, tastes or their schedule are their personal preferences or their different medical conditions or different allergic responses.
So it's so hard to do a to paint with a broad brush yeah and to do a one-size-fits-all diet program.
I try and focus it's the same thing I do when I'm teaching somebody how to squat, I want to make it feel good.
First mm-hmm, I don't want to be a golf swing.
You know I mean yeah, I just want to get them, they get used to just sitting down and standing up and so that they fit feels good to them and they're, not all awkward, yeah and the diets.
The same way I had my business partner, fly down to Vegas and stay there for a while, and we because he travels all the time.
So we went around to different restaurants and went to the airport etc, to show him how to select the foods that would potentially make you more successful, because the idea that he's gon na meal prep is there's a bad idea of stretch.
It's not gon na happen.
You know I meal prep and I travel with all my food, but he's not gon na do that.
So if I set him up with my plan, he's gon na be unsuccessful, so we can navigate the menu and pick and choose yep yeah.
I just told him about what he was looking for in terms of macros, what things to avoid and - and he had great success.
He lost 30 pounds in 30 days, Wow as a result of the program, which is not all that uncommon for somebody who's carrying a lot of weight when they implement a reasonable meal plan, and I'm not even talking about being specific in terms of macros.
I'm not being extreme in terms of carnivore or keto or vegan, or any of those which all may work for some people, and certainly not trying to you, know on anybody else.
Yes meal plan, but is it sustainable? Is it likely that this person will use that, for the long term and in compliance is the biggest piece and what's interesting is is since the topic came up, it just so happens that it's been something that's been on my mind.
For years, I started working with a group of programmers computer programmers, Silicon Valley, programmers who do apps have some very good work.
They've actually sold some stuff to Apple before a very successful group and they're designing an app and we've been working together to design an app.
That's a compliance app, something that gives you a daily checklist reminds you when something needs to be done, and has these you know triggers all set up. 00:30:19
You weigh in it ties into a Fitbit, so I can see the blood pressure.
I can see your body weight when you weigh in daily your sleep, it'll monitor number of hours, you sleep and then little things like the 10-minute walks.
If you took them or not, how many you're supposed to take a day and tiny little things in my diet, yeah, I still have a checklist.
I haven't competed in five years, but had a little checklist at home.
Little Excel spreadsheet, with the days of the month and a big list of things that are compliance items for me, whether or not I eat my daily carrot or had an orange or how many meals I ate that day.
What weight I was when I woke up in the morning whether I took my vitamin D or my cod liver oil, whatever it is, that is my program at the time.
I want to make sure I'm in compliance and this type of program, which there are others out there that have worked, particularly in the medical field, for compliance with things like diabetes, right that have been very effective.
They drastically improved the percentage of compliance and people's health outcomes as a result, so I've tried to to poll draw from that and into the general community.
You know: what's how am I going to be powers? Is my client gon na be more successful and I tried to pick the big things you know it's not whether or not they're macros are on point yeah right.
I mean right that can move around and everybody's preferences are different, but - and we also know from a lot of the research that they can move around quite a bit yeah and still have successful outcomes.
Yeah so do I do I focus on that there do.
I focus on the the major reasons why people don't succeed and one of them is the biggest ones compliance and then beyond that, I don't think it's the macros.
I think it's the micros.
I think that people, the reason that they stop complying is this won't feel good yeah on the diet.
They don't feel healthier.
They don't have enough energy, doesn't taste good, and so I try and create a meal plan that actually provides them all of those things.
That's the number one thing that that I think the benefit that I've gotten from the diet is the energy and the gut health and the performance egg.
I focus on that far more than the macros mm-hmm one thing: it's it's big and we were talking.
I think the biggest thing about the diet to talk about compliance, but but your strength as a barometer of like okay, so you're lean.
Well, that's great, but if your strength takes a nosedive well, then that's probably not a good thing right.
Even if you're, not a professional power.
Lifter I mean there's, you know, longevity is correlated with hand, grip, strength right, and so they met yeah.
It was pretty interesting, and so I think like with me, I mean I like the cognitive benefits of being pedo, but it does affect my strength.
So that's when I carb cycle more in and so forth.
So I think, but people get kind of myopically focused here.
They're carnivore, they're key to weather, paleo or the vegan, and like this idea of like undulating and like pure in izing, even your carb intake or your macros is like whoa.
What do you? What are you talking about? So how often do you like kind of cycle things like if you're training legs? Will you have more carbs that day or more dextrose, yeah same thing for my athletes and different athletes? Some people, like some people, want to lose a lot of weight right away and it might be a health issue, might be 50 pounds overweight and have pre-diabetes you know or high blood pressure or any number of those complications.
In a case like that, I want to try and find something that can restrict the calories.
The easiest and limiting carbohydrate intake seems to be pretty effective for that plus the fact that it helps their blood Sugar's. 00:33:38
That might be a 30-day push or a 60-day push right off the front, and usually people can stick with the program for that period of time, particularly if they're seeing results now mind you losing weight is going to improve health comes no matter what you eat.
You saw that with the McDonald's diet.
We saw that with the 7-eleven diet and the ice cream diet when you lose weight, health outcomes and improved, but long-term.
Is it sustainable that you can do create deficiencies for yourself that start to compromise your energy or your strength or your health as we talked, and so what I do initially is to create that calorie deficit might be look very different than what I do long term.
That's for health compromised people who are overweight, and my suggestion is - is that you can cap carbohydrates.
I don't like to go under 100 grams a day.
Maybe a keto people are like you're much yeah and the other reason is is because I don't want to slow their metabolism mmm and - and I, like all the micronutrients that are in fruit in particular, yeah.
I hate to pull fruit out of a diet.
It's so valuable the potassium.
I also don't like to pull the fructose in particular for stimulating liver, but then potassium the other vitamins associated with that.
But I also like to keep calcium in the diet, because that's so important for blood pressure control when you go keto, you tend to lose a significant amount of sodium and the carbohydrates, the glycogen being less and now you're losing you know: glycogen, water and salt and People tend to get a little tired from that or a little cramped up losing weight kind of helps. 00:35:09
Obviously, your energy levels improve no matter what diet you're on. 00:35:13
When you lose 15 pounds.
You feel better mm-hmm, there's no question, so I try and keep a little bit of fruit in there and beyond that.
The micronutrients are important to me.
The calcium magnesium, in particular for blood pressure control.
Those are huge to me and calcium seems to be a potent stimulator of metabolism as well mm-hmm and if you're gon na throw calcium in there, you got ta, throw k2 in there yeah and right yep and a vitamin D, because it absorbs calcium and helps absorb More calcium, so those are all huge for me.
Where do I get those from? If I'm you know on a carnivore diet, I've got to find a source for that, and so I and keep some foods in there.
Yeah that'll provide those benefits for them and then, if you're a performance athlete, then I want to make sure and get an adequate amount of carbs in there to fuel those those bouts of training.
The muscle is most effective with the clang kitchen.
Now can you become fat adapted, some people can and for particular types of exercise, endurance in particular, but if it's strength in the gym, the glycogen is the king.
Now you can get to the top of the Empire State Building using the stairs.
You know burning fats, but it's a lot more efficient to take the elevator to have some glycogen and the muscles when you're actually in training - and I will use some timing, I might eat the carbs a couple hours before training and then I, like the post card, Shake if it's an intense training session that we mentioned getting in some dextrose and fructose, and some sodium and water immediately following training with no proteins or fats.
Hmm, because that will slow the absorption I see, and another thing is, is that you don't drastically affect insulin levels when it's immediately following training.
Your body can take up a lot of that glycogen without triggering insulin, release, yeah and the same thing is true of fruit. 00:37:02
Almost anytime, throughout the day, it's it's a much less has much less impact on insulin release it doesn't.
The insulin is ago is high and it stabilizes faster with fruit, but I use it almost like medicine I'll, take a water, a juice, yeah, yeah, three ounces or four ounces three times a day, and what are we talking there that I just I just like? 35 grams a day you know the liver can handle 75 to 100 in a healthy person sure and particularly for exercising yeah, so how you do that, and people's metabolisms and energy levels in their body temperature goes up. 00:37:34
That's super interesting yeah.
Why do we take caffeine? Why do we take ephedrine? Why do we take you know phentermine, to raise our body temperature mm-hmm? If you get up in the morning and put a thermometer under your arm and hold it there for ten minutes, you'll be it.
Ninety seven point: eight to ninety eight point: two and everything is 98.
6, but that's kind of the range sure now, if you're, ninety seven point six, which typically happens when you're dieting because your metabolism gets suppressed you'd, be it more optimal to be at ninety eight point: Two or four - and that can happen just with those three things - a little bit of iodine a little bit of salt, a little bit of fructose a little bit of calcium.
Okay, you throw those four things in there all of a sudden.
It's if the metabolism starts to heat up in people's energy levels are better and they come to the gym and they can actually work harder longer and recover faster yeah and that's this is, what happens.
I told you I've gotten thousands, thousands of emails and texts and DMS from all over the world from the UK and Canada, Australia, New Zealand, you name it.
China from people using the program and they'll, be like go on it for two or three days and there's.
Oh, my god, I feel so much better and I'm as much a skeptic as anybody sure.
But as far as feeling better goes, I'm not talking about body composition or anything like that.
But if you're in a depleted state which most of the people tend to be, who exercise half generally half of hard training athletes are iodine deficient because of sweating if they're not intentionally finding a source of iodine in their diet, whether it be the Redmond, real salt Or I use cranberry juice, myself has six hundred percent of your daily calcium requirement, yes in just like four ounces, twice a day or iodine requirement, so I put all these things in there within just a few days.
Think these guys were sending me these testimonials.
I'm putting my website and everybody's like oh yeah, the world didn't change right, but they sure feel better yeah and they feel better fast and then performance comes right on the heels of that mm-hmm, and that can happen with just you know because of the depleted state.
You can change things.
You know almost immediately yeah.
I love your program like I said, after listening to Chris Belle's interview with you, I bought it yeah we're in California.
Now it's reading it on the plane.
It's great, I mean you really come at this from like the functional medicine approach like you're, balancing the lifestyle.
Then you talk about you know in the vertical diet and the program like a lot of things that you do outside the gym that tend to be under.
Emphasizing the traditional bodybuilding community, where it's like macro, focused and everything yeah, let's dive into fructose - and I just have a little anecdotal story when I was 27, so Poliquin been friends with Charles sure, yeah did seminar with him in UK last food a few months ago.
Yeah yeah one of the strongest times in my life and like the biggest that I've been, was using his program like first thing in the morning: yeah a juicing, grapefruit, yeah and oranges.
I was having that fructose and I remember just like my strength went through the roof and I had no idea why yeah the problem is now: we've conflated fructose with high fructose corn syrup in soda pops and we're afraid of fructose yeah.
It's been so prevalent in the media and we've just you know confused the fact that fruit fructose one fruit is different than high fructose corn syrup and acts very differently in the body, even when juiced not as low of an impact on insulin release as if it Were with the fruit in the fiber mm-hmm, but even when juiced and again, I use small amounts of it, because the liver is so effective at at turning fructose into glycogen and feeding the brain with it.
That seems to be the primary place of the brain.
Gets food that it will take everything you give it yeah and start converting it into fat, and next thing you got fatty, liver and then all the metabolic problems that happens downstream from there.
So I'm really cautious about, although fructose doesn't seem to be as big of a contributor to fatty, liver as other types of fructose or even starches, or anything in excess yeah. 00:41:28
And you saw that in the pure study and that fruit, at almost any lettuce, almost any level was protected, which is another reason why I want to eat it.
Not just the performance benefit because we're seeing this to protect of cardiovascular disease and all cause mortality, and even the folks from nutrition packs thought it.
Yeah did a great piece on fruits, and these are folks who you know would probably turn over if they heard that I mentioned their name.
Yeah he's vegan, but you know I don't all cherry pick from anywhere sure and he's got some great research on fruit and the benefits and how much you can eat almost endless yeah and yet we're you know avoiding such a important nutrient and it's more than just The fructose we've said the vitamins that are in that it's extraordinary the benefits from it I'll belabor the point because I'd like to see all athletes, women, bikini competitors, dieting for shows and four hundred and forty pound, Hough Torrance's and Brian Shaw's eating fruit as it so Has such a huge impact on the way they feel and I watch these athletes.
Their lives have changed because they started eating a few of these micronutrient dense things that their body really needs fruit, salt, little iodine, calcium change overnight.
That's awesome for people that are hearing this and and they're like oh my gosh.
I can't believe they're promoting fructose consumption or fruit consumption in the context of weight, loss and bodybuilding yeah.
Is there a timing, like you said throughout the day, and that stimulates the liver and kind of gets resting metabolic rate to bump up yeah it'll boost your body temperature and improve starch absorption? It will improve carbohydrate absorption from starches just because the livers is stimulated and the metabolism is increased as a result of that little bit of fructose, and I don't see from the studies I just mentioned nutrition act on organ and the peer study.
I don't see there is necessarily a limit, it seems to be positive on you know the calorie equation.
Being the ultimate concern you can get fat on anything.
You know even the Mediterranean diet or vegan diet.
You can get fat yeah eating too much is always a problem, but I don't have never seen anybody eat too much fruit.
Anything honest with you, I'm cautious with bananas, however, because it is a starch as opposed to the the.
What would you call in the sweet fruits that we talked about in the runner, yeah, melons oranges and because it's hard to gauge what level of starch that's at a green or banana will be more fibrous in a more ripe banana, but also because a lot of The people I deal with and a lot of people in general do have gut issues yeah and those starches can, through pers or pian end up into the bloodstream and they've got these starch molecules floating around that haven't been digested similar to celiac disease and leaky gut And you know wheat consumption, those molecules end up, clogging up arterioles or capillaries and starting to wreak havoc on the body.
You know all the cells downstream from that will start dying.
So, that's I mean that's an extreme position, but I personally never really been able to tolerate bananas as any it's dose-dependent sure.
I say that about everything on my vertical diet, with respect to the horizontal foundation that I build is there's a lot of things in there.
You can eat, but you can't build a significant amount of calories with those foods.
You have to use them as micronutrients some of those foods because they can create digestion problems for you and if I'm fueling, a big athlete who's got a huge workload.
He needs to get the calories from somewhere yeah, he needs to get the protein from somewhere and he needs to get the carbs from somewhere.
If he's burning 5,000 a day, I have to give him 5,000 a day, and I can't do that with wheat.
I can't do that with potatoes.
Even there's too much of those of the resistant starches in the fact that they're, a high, say shitty food you'd have a hard time eating them all yeah, as well as the possibility for perception.
I can't give it to him and beans or brown rice, because the selectins and the phytic acid, or even oatmeal, he might be able to handle a cup, but he can he handle 10 cups yeah of oatmeal.
Am i doing that back in the day? It was tough yeah, yeah, even the dry, oatmeal, etc.
So yeah, I'm cautious about what I use to build the foundation of micronutrients mm-hmm, very diverse.
I think that's important and, of course, trying to meet all of those needs.
The amount of potassium and magnesium, the calcium that you need and the vitamins and minerals, and but now, when I'm building the vertical platform, what everybody always hears about, the vertical diet is it steak and rice steak and rice steak and rice all day long every day, Steak and rice, but if you're a big athlete burning a lot of calories, there will be more steak and rice and the reason I use those two steak and white rice is because they're so easily digestible steak in particular. 00:46:14
So nutrient dense, as we discussed in comparison to chicken or egg whites - oh yeah, then egg whites have the avidin.
You can't eat those in large quantities. 00:46:23
They're high allergen food - and you know chicken - is of no comparison in terms of ammonia change.
Sampler yeah the micronutrients down for the b12, the iron link and the polyunsaturated fats in feedlot chicken yeah, that's good.
It is not I'm not a fan of that.
I'd prefer the saturated fats for athletes.
I think they're more easily digested there.
You know the polyunsaturated fats are gon na oxidate, so I don't think it's an ideal.
You know there's a mega sixes in mass quantities.
I just I don't think it's even close and so and same with Turkey mm-hmm, and I think the only reason people historically have have bought and eaten.
A lot of this stuff is a because it's low fat and B, because it's cheap there's a reason why it's cheap yeah, it's junk.
It only lived for three months on soy, never saw the sunlight, never saw the Sun and that's what you're getting yeah.
You know ultimately as you're up here in the food chain.
You benefit from everything that the animals below you eat and has grown from the earth and the Sun and the water and the vitamins and all that other stuff.
The cows got 5 stomachs yeah.
So you don't have to do that methane thing and it gives you a great deal more nutrients.
Ideally if that cow has been grass fed - and you know I recommend the Bison yeah, which is awesome, but it's eight bucks, a pound at Costco and 10 or 11.
A pound everywhere else and 20, a pound in the UK and Canada yeah, and so I have to be a realist mmm.
I have to live in a real world when they contact me and sustain.
Can I use ground beef in a good, better best scenario preferable over a feedlot chicken absolutely use the ground beef? Ideally, you know you'd be able to use some grass-fed food.
I've said before in one of my rants: why I'm a hypocrite yeah? I had the time and money yeah to make some of these choices, but not everybody does they're on a budget.
I get messages from people over in Europe all the time red meats hard to get there. 00:48:15
Yeah Iceland, very expensive, lamb, pretty affordable right, so we make some options that are more affordable for them.
Even if it's down to ground beef has you know a good, better, best scenario.
I want to make it easy.
I want to be realistic college students on a budget.
What can they do to optimize performance? I was there I packed my PB and J's and my eggs and chicken into into a big you know, class and popped open.
The Tupperware and people from ten rows down would look back what the hell that was yeah, that was my six hour old hard-boiled eggs.
That I was eating, so I understand it and calories reign supreme yeah.
I train football players, you know high school, collegiate and professional.
I was at the University of Washington here and I brought a a quarterback up that I was training and he was he was being recruited by u-dub and the trainer. 00:49:09
There was talking to them about how busy their schedule was gon na be and how important it was that they ate, and this was one of the biggest things that I always try and tell kids.
When I go do seminars for football players, I tell them.
You know you don't grow in the gym.
All you do in here is break down muscle tissue.
Your coach gets you for two hours and the rest of the time is your responsibility to recover, and that's gon na take a lot of sleep.
A lot of food, a lot of proper hydration well, the trainer said: look if you have to pack half a dozen PB and J's in your backpack to get enough calories.
So you don't come in here tired every day, because then that's what you need to do. 00:49:48
You know and on a grander sense, when you go down to the University of Oregon or Phil Knight, put sixty million dollars into their new training facilities.
They have a huge cafeteria there, where they fly in chefs that are going through culinary school, their masters and culinary to cook, for these guys and it's salmon and steak, it's not mac and cheese and pizza, and when they come off the field.